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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Galphii
Sileo In Pacis
THE SPACE P0LICE
78
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Posted - 2012.10.23 03:05:00 -
[271] - Quote
Excellent changes, and well-timed. I had feared the market would continue to suffer under the yoke of our FW overlords, but seeing CCP speed up these fixes has restored my faith. Bon Chance! |
Graygor
1kB Realty
1kB Galactic
154
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Posted - 2012.10.23 03:08:00 -
[272] - Quote
Come fanfest (money + time permitting) I am buying all of you, the members of Game of Drones the alcoholic beverage or soft drink of your choice for this.
I might even splash out for some fancy cocktails with umbrellas as this brought a huge smile to my face.
Well played! |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
191
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Posted - 2012.10.23 03:15:00 -
[273] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Respecting your opinion, but when the reward for defensive plexing shrinks significantly due to all of your systems not being contested any longer don't you think that will provide motivation to go on the offense and take a system, then reap the rewards for defending it against attack?
It would seem to be a bit counter productive.
The metagame is pretty key here.
Only earlier this week there was talk by some of our own militias bigger corps busting bunkers for the opposition with alts to reduce their farming grounds etc ...
When the rewards and incentives become so high that things are going down that level of meta road then no, I fully expect farmers to work the contested levels back and forth with alts to their maximum farming potential in most systems, maintaining the status quo in the majority of systems.
Offensive plexing will also become much slower if the timer stops while NPCs are present too (not sure if in this iteration, but it is planned for winter) so in terms of LP to time spent ratio the difference may work out much closer than you'd expect when people deliberately meta systems by letting them go fallow or farming them actively with alts to keep them at optimal farming levels.
All these changes do is push more of the farmers into defensive farming (which at least for a month) they can still do in gunless frigates, and it will make taking systems much harder - hence the stagnation.
I could be wrong but when several other vets like myself are thinking the same lines often we're not too far out from the actuality.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
472
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Posted - 2012.10.23 03:30:00 -
[274] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
Respecting your opinion, but when the reward for defensive plexing shrinks significantly due to all of your systems not being contested any longer don't you think that will provide motivation to go on the offense and take a system, then reap the rewards for defending it against attack?
It would seem to be a bit counter productive.
The metagame is pretty key here. Only earlier this week there was talk by some of our own militias bigger corps busting bunkers for the opposition with alts to reduce their farming grounds etc ... When the rewards and incentives become so high that things are going down that level of meta road then no, I fully expect farmers to work the contested levels back and forth with alts to their maximum farming potential in most systems, maintaining the status quo in the majority of systems. Offensive plexing will also become much slower if the timer stops while NPCs are present too (not sure if in this iteration, but it is planned for winter) so in terms of LP to time spent ratio the difference may work out much closer than you'd expect when people deliberately meta systems by letting them go fallow or farming them actively with alts to keep them at optimal farming levels. All these changes do is push more of the farmers into defensive farming (which at least for a month) they can still do in gunless frigates, and it will make taking systems much harder - hence the stagnation. I could be wrong but when several other vets like myself are thinking the same lines often we're not too far out from the actuality.
I'm probably wrong, but I think the only solution is to make it just one warzone with 2 militias. Combine the forces, reset the warzone. Give it a 1 or 2 week window where the docking penalty is removed, then let it loose. It would be much harder to metagame the battle that way.
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Ronin Duskstar
Shinrei Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2012.10.23 03:46:00 -
[275] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:There's a certain flavor of tasteless joke involving screaming "Surprise!" CCP (and Game of Drones in particular), you have all my love for doing it to FW farmers with less than 24h notice. I am so looking forward to the tears from this. 
Didn't want that LP anyway. I've made my billions, was hoping to get an extra 20b on top of that, but meh, c'est la vie.
I have enough to conquer Eve now anyhow  |
None ofthe Above
350
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Posted - 2012.10.23 04:06:00 -
[276] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Hmm. Seems the only posting the CSM does now is to cheerlead devblogs.
At least we know the CSM is doing their job marketing the game. My devblogs bring all the capsuleers to the yard. In all seriousness, it's one of the side effects of showing dev blogs to the CSM ahead of time and often incorporating some of their feedback before release. 
Seriously, thank you for doing that.
One of the more helpful things CSM can do.
CCP Devs are great but it's really helpful to have a sounding board like this.
EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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None ofthe Above
350
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Posted - 2012.10.23 04:20:00 -
[277] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: IMHO, there should be only one type of plex period, with NPC's spawning either way. OMFG?!?Are you seriously championing Susan Black's idea that plexes should have NO ship restrictions whatsoever? Do you just blindly agree with every dumb idea she puts forward? Who got elected to the CSM? You or her? You don't seem to do much independent thinking, that's for sure. All I said was that you shouldn't be able to defensive plex without killing anything. There should be stuff to shoot either way. If not people, than NPC's. Effortless D-plexing for LP is just as bad as effortless O-plexing for LP. You said no such thing. You wrote "there should be only one type of plex period" and there's really only one way to interpret that.
Oh come on Poetic, let it go. Your tin foil hat led you to jump to a conclusion. Maybe what Hans said could be considered ambiguous in that snippet, but clearly the offensive/defensive thing is what he meant:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Word on the street this is trickier to code than it may seem, but I still think its sorely needed. IMHO, there should be only one type of plex period, with NPC's spawning either way. The only thing that should make it offensive or defensive is whether you own space there and make more or less LP for running it.
Seriously, look at the context and let this one go.
EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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None ofthe Above
350
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Posted - 2012.10.23 04:34:00 -
[278] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:X Gallentius wrote:....Front is going to stagnate a bit ... A bit .. did you read the same blog as I did, they are doubling (2x) buffers/upgrades and decreasing bleed by a whopping 80% .. that is a factor ten compared to current, Have fun plexing that down when defender gets points for being AFK on top  Systems held after DT will not flip in the foreseeable future, will be nigh impossible to do, so map tomorrow will be as static as null has been for the past year+ (excepting renter/sheep changes). As for pew increasing .. I checked the data and the spike didn't really happen until the farm was running which means that it is millionaire-fights (as opposed to bum-fights before) .. all FW boards should move the digit in the kill value one or two places to the left. ... hahahahahah Personally never took pleasure in killing, was purely out of service (RP) and quite frankly see no point in it if it has zero effect on anything which is what infinite ISK (effectively) means. War without recognized costs is just a slaughter (ref: WWI). What scares and annoys me is that this is supposedly the last iterative pass for the time being, tweaks here and there probably but what they push on the morrow is what you have to live with for the next two or three years .. not really seeing it. By the way, CCP: Are you going to develop the storyline at all? Has been completely frozen for ages.
I agree that I found the part about buffers and upgrades disturbing. And the need to kill rats is not really an elegant solution to the AFK speed tanking (huge) problem. Do the timers just stop while the rats are alive? I sincerely hope not. That would drag out the time for everyone, not just nerf AFK plexing.
But that's all the more reason several passes (at least this one and retribution) is a good thing. No?
This has the usual CCP mix of common sense and OMGWTF? It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
131
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Posted - 2012.10.23 06:34:00 -
[279] - Quote
Systems will be exactly as hard and easy to take after Inferno 1.3.2 as they were before, and they will be exactly as hard and easy to take after Retribution (well, not quite, thanks to DUST). You'll just have to make do without a legion of plexing alts. (I actually think we could stand to have a moderate reduction in the amount of VP needed to flip a system).
As for the reduced bleed out, it relates to system upgrades as is presumably derived from CCP's half-baked notion that if your faction's income is going to be reliant on maintaining a certain tier level, then you ought to be able to sustain it in the face of enemy pressure for more than a few hours. |
Ki're Suahien
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
25
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Posted - 2012.10.23 06:40:00 -
[280] - Quote
My only complaint about the early arrival is that is screws half the factions over. The Minmatar/Gallente had the opportunity to hit tier 5 (and I think the minmatar did) and cash out all their LP, while the Caldari/Amarr were screwed over completely.
Otherwise, I'm happy with the changes to FW. I still probably won't play it as much because ~lowsec~. |
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marketjacker
Percussive Diplomacy
PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
42
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Posted - 2012.10.23 06:52:00 -
[281] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Weitkunat wrote:Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Edit: Just wanted to re-iterate that the main issue all these changes will have is that they will massively stagnate the already pretty stagnant warzones (as many other long term FW players have spotted). [b]Nothing is changing here to make the warzone more PVP related as it all still revolves around boring PVE button orbiting.
If that's what you really think, that's just sad, and if it's so boring, then maybe you should quit FW. No, what is sad is some plonker like yourself telling a FW vet like me (who founded your alliance by the way) to quit FW because I find plex mechanics boring. Plexes have always been boring PVE, they will remain boring PVE content when the button moves to the warp in and npcs have godlike AI - the only exception for them not being boring is the very rare occasions they prompt PVP.
What's sad is FW vets, get over yourself lol.
I hope this ruins it tbh, or kicks all the old blood out. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
359
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Posted - 2012.10.23 07:09:00 -
[282] - Quote
Aww.. and I was hoping to make some ISK off the current system; then my computer broke, and now it'll be theoretically much more difficult 
Constructively:
Interesting changes. I can see this ending up being one FW with all upgrades and being uncontestable though. Probably back to Amarr? No idea really, but if maxing upgrade tiers is where the ISK is, you can bet one FW Militia is going to do it and make sure it stays that way.
That's good for conflict initially, but once achieved, will it remain so? I can't say for sure, but defensive plexing will be where the ISK is now apparently. Should be interesting to see how it turns out.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2012.10.23 07:44:00 -
[283] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:SURPRISE!
not empty quoting
Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
140
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Posted - 2012.10.23 07:56:00 -
[284] - Quote
So after retribution... Will CCP finally be able to do something about the rest of low sec out of FW?
Saaaay, for dedicated low sec pvpers who feel that its highly unfair that they are being punished for only wanting to pvp without ratting?
Adding some benefits to being -10 along with the long heap of flaws? ^^ Some system? Yes? Maybe?
I don't think any playergroup in eve has been waiting as long for some attention... |
I BuildStuffs
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.10.23 08:11:00 -
[285] - Quote
kalath1032 wrote:Well done CCP, you just handed total control of the warzone to the Gallenteans forever!
Should of plexed bro so now it's my job to drop t3 fleets on your bunker bashing fleets |
Sui'Djin
Black Rise Guerilla Forces
Kraken.
8
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Posted - 2012.10.23 08:15:00 -
[286] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:I still don't like the idea of plexes showing up on the overview for everyone, especially if there's going to be a clock next to it showing it counting down (btw, don't recall seeing that suggested in any of the FW threads).
Pirates camping plexes is a great source of pvp.
fully agreed |
Sui'Djin
Black Rise Guerilla Forces
Kraken.
8
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 08:33:00 -
[287] - Quote
Weitkunat wrote:Soon Shin wrote:I personally think the current tier system encourages conflict. Why not change everything BUT the tier system?
The new upgrade system is good, there are now measures to stop overplexing, and now gunless frigate noobs will no longer easily do them.
The current tier system will make it so that militias will have to go in fierce fighting to get better rewards.
I forsee the value of FW LP to be pennies. The problem I saw was that it was too easy to do for the amount you could make. Honestly I'd stay in FW even if there was zero reward. PVP is fun.
way to go, very much appreciated. There is more in FW than farming. At least some people remember that ... |
Luke Visteen
Apostasy Prime
106
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Posted - 2012.10.23 08:51:00 -
[288] - Quote
Imagine thousands of flopping fish.
Now relate that image to gunless merlins and the new FW changes.
Hair :DDD |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
29
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Posted - 2012.10.23 09:03:00 -
[289] - Quote
I don't know if anybody has brought this up before but:
Lets assume our warzone is at its original state:
This puts Minmatar at 42 systems and amarr at 28 systems. (The situation is eve worse for amarr atm. They are working hard before DT though so that they'll be somehow closer to these numbers)
Even at original state:
42*6= 252 (Borderline T4)
28*6= 168 (Borderline T2)
Even if Amarrians manage to get to original state, max they can get will be T2 where as we can push our systems to T4 (and it is much harder to degrade systems now) and enjoy %150 gains in LP
So to compete with us Amarrians need to hold some of our systems and settle there, which is quite hard because of the geography of the region. Furthermore there is the difference of 0.7% gains vs 1% gains in original homelands.
Now....I hate amarrians...every single one of them...
But this pattern will just turn into a snowball, which will end with a permanent T5 holding minmatar militia.
...and this is not really what CCP would want.
Link to an amarrian post(yuck!) here is a good way to rebalance amarr / minmatar FW zone. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
512
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Posted - 2012.10.23 09:03:00 -
[290] - Quote
One thing i've missed (and it may have been addressed already), but what's happening to the LP stores themselves? Are the cashout prices going to be brought more or less equivalent with current non-FW LP stores, since they don't change with warzone control anymore? |
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Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
26
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Posted - 2012.10.23 09:18:00 -
[291] - Quote
Deerin wrote:
Now....I hate amarrians...every single one of them...
But this pattern will just turn into a snowball, which will end with a permanent T5 holding minmatar militia.
...and this is not really what CCP would want.
They MUST have considered this!
But I also can't see how this should be working.
Assume somehow one faction gets to T5.
Then their enemies have to push back at 50% LP gains while the defenders get up to 325%*75%=243,75% - even in a system that is only contested 50% thats twice as much as the attacker gets.
Then there is this "diminishing returns" argument:
Fozzie states that there will be a donation tax of about 70% at tier 5.
At tier 5 you get 325% LP. If you donate, only 30% of that will effectively be used to upgrade the system - 325%*30%=97,5%. Basically, you need the same amount of work to upgrade a system like without tax+multiplier.
If I am not completely wrong and the tax is not 0% at lower tiers, it will still be EASIER to upgrade systems on tier 5 (i.e. less work) than on lower tiers.
So my best guess is: static warzone control, one faction at tier 4/5 and the farmers are running missions for hilarious amounts of LP.
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Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
26
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Posted - 2012.10.23 09:28:00 -
[292] - Quote
Just realized my post sounds a bit pessimistic. ^^
I am actually very happy that CCP addresses the current issues and does the rollout faster than planned.
Nevertheless, I try to forecast the behaviour of EVE players regarding potential flaws of the new system. So lets see how things turn out... |
Iris Bravemount
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
87
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Posted - 2012.10.23 09:36:00 -
[293] - Quote
Ok, I have spent the night thinking about this. Here are my conclusions.
Having fixed LP store prices should fix cash out spiking, which is a good thing.
AFK plexing sucks. Forcing players to kill the rats fixes it for offensive plexing. So this is a good thing.
As a consequence, defensive plexing will be a lot easier than offensive plexing, since it can (and will) still be done afk in a gunless frig. The suggested change to the formula, lowering the LP yield as system vulnerability is good. However, def plexing may still yield up to 75% the LP of offensive plexing, while not even requiring 50% the effort. This is a bad thing.
Having the winning side earning up 6.5 times the LP of the losing side makes it impossible for the losing side to recover. This is a bad thing.
Having an LP tax is frustrating and makes no sense from a "lore" perspective. This is a bad thing.
I have a short set of suggestions that may keep the above good things while fixing the above bad things:
First of all, replace this:
Quote:New system is:
Tier1: LP gains reduced by 50%
Tier2: LP gains staying the same
Tier3: LP gains increased by 75%
Tier4: LP gains increased by 150%
Tier5: LP gains increased by 225%
A heavy tax is applied to LP donations in higher tiers.
with this:
Quote:More reasonable system is:
Tier1: LP gains staying the same
Tier2: LP gains increased by 50%
Tier3: LP gains increased by 100%
Tier4: LP gains increased by 150%
Tier5: LP gains increased by 200%
A light tax is applied to LP donations in higher tiers.
And add the following rules:
Quote:LP multiplier for offensive plexing:
Tier1: LP gains increased by 225%
Tier2: LP gains increased by 125%
Tier3: LP gains increased by 50%
Tier4: LP gains staying the same
Tier5: LP gains decreased by 50%
LP multiplier for defensive plexing:
Tier1: LP gains decreased by 25%
Tier2: LP gains staying the same
Tier3: LP gains increased by 25%
Tier4: LP gains increased by 75%
Tier5: LP gains increased by 175%
This would make sense and create some more balance (and in a less artificial way than an LP tax).
"We're at warzone control t4? Ok guys, It's time to defend our stuff and go back to business (missions)."
"What? We're at t1? Guys, we really need to grab some land!"
Please acknowledge that you read this team game of drones and Hans, even if you don't agree.
I accidentally... the bookmark.
How much is it worth? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
331
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Posted - 2012.10.23 09:38:00 -
[294] - Quote
Deerin wrote:..But this pattern will just turn into a snowball, which will end with a permanent T5 holding minmatar militia...
Welcome to my world, been trying to get this point across to the decision makers in Iceland for years so all I can say is "good luck with that", the geography and "starting point" is stupidly lopsided on our front. The result of existing lowsec having been hijacked to serve FW instead of the Caldari solution which spawned an entire region tailor made for the purpose.
Edward Olmops wrote:They MUST have considered this!...
You'd think. As I said, I have been requesting a revision of the Amarr/Shakorite map for what is literally years .. was bad before when it was just for honour/glory/RP but after wallets entered the picture the end result became a foregone conclusion.
Edward Olmops wrote:Just realized my post sounds a bit pessimistic. ^^..
Logic has a tendency to come across that way, so don't fret 
Human behaviour, especially when massed, is not rocket science .. predictable is what we are.
|
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
Liandri Covenant
267
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 09:42:00 -
[295] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick clarification: With the patch tomorrow we will be reducing the over-vulnerability of many systems so that they cannot be defensively farmed for extensive periods of time after the deployment, and that with concerted effort each side can influence the vulnerability of systems in their warzone without being forced to use alts in the opposing side. Merritoff wrote:CCP is working via a variety of methods to bring the price of PLEX down, and FW has been identified as an area that can help the process along.
Can you elaborate on this comment in the blog? I am sure I am not only one with a ... limited period of vested interest. The only method I'll be discussing at this time if FW changes, but rest assured that the price of PLEX is something that the Eve Central Bank is keeping a close eye on.
You really are stupid, no one is going to defend systems for isk because LP is pretty much worthless, but you really favor minmatar and gallente on this change by making sure that they manage to defend several systems from vulnerable to contested.
Maximize the fuckup ! Well done, CCP should really kick some devs who 1st made horrible isk farm and then they fix it by favoring some sides that happend to be represented by current CSM members. |
Generals4
1539
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 10:02:00 -
[296] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick clarification: With the patch tomorrow we will be reducing the over-vulnerability of many systems so that they cannot be defensively farmed for extensive periods of time after the deployment, and that with concerted effort each side can influence the vulnerability of systems in their warzone without being forced to use alts in the opposing side. Merritoff wrote:CCP is working via a variety of methods to bring the price of PLEX down, and FW has been identified as an area that can help the process along.
Can you elaborate on this comment in the blog? I am sure I am not only one with a ... limited period of vested interest. The only method I'll be discussing at this time if FW changes, but rest assured that the price of PLEX is something that the Eve Central Bank is keeping a close eye on. You really are stupid, no one is going to defend systems for isk because LP is pretty much worthless, but you really favor minmatar and gallente on this change by making sure that they manage to defend several systems from vulnerable to contested. Maximize the fuckup ! Well done, CCP should really kick some devs who 1st made horrible isk farm and then they fix it by favoring some sides that happend to be represented by current CSM members.
I second this statement.
Reducing the vulnerability is just going to **** up amarr and caldari. Defensive plexing will only give 75% of the pay out of offensive plexes and the LP will be worth 4x less. Why would Minnies and Galls waste their time defensively plexing? And what made you think those vulnerable systems wouldn't be flipped over before they could be over-farmed (assuming they would actually waste their time defensively plexing them).
I truly hope you will rethink that because it's plain silly.
-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
166
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Posted - 2012.10.23 10:24:00 -
[297] - Quote
Please make it so that defending NPC's have a chance to use warp scramble or disruptors. This at least gives us a chance to catch the solo farmers (Which will remain, regardless of whether they now have to kill the NPC's, which is a bonus for sure, but still)
This would encourage teamwork and make PvP more likely and farming solo a darn sight more risky.
The chance of them being scrambled or disrupted could be tied to upgrade level of the system, to further encourage upgrading.
Caldari focused fleet PvP
Join us for 100% Caldari fleets in Faction Warfare and small fleet PvP
www.thedeadrabbitsociety.com/recruitment |
Mc Stealth
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.10.23 10:56:00 -
[298] - Quote
I guess they finally saw the screenies of people having stacks of implants worth 100s of billions. Again, the sheer incompetence of ccp when it comes to the economy. It boggles the mind. First of all, FW should be about PVP!!!! People all over eve do pvp without any financial inventives. FW should enable pvp and make it easier to get fights. You only add money to attract carebears, who you think will be targets for the hardcore pvpers. But instead you end up adding way too much isk and people forgot all about pvp. Now you've made a mockery of every other profession in eve, people who have spent years building empires only to be outearned by people taking advantage of ccps incompetence. All you have to do is listen to the players. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5282
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 11:21:00 -
[299] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:You really are stupid, no one is going to defend systems for isk because LP is pretty much worthless, but you really favor minmatar and gallente on this change by making sure that they manage to defend several systems from vulnerable to contested.
Maximize the fuckup ! Well done, CCP should really kick some devs who 1st made horrible isk farm and then they fix it by favoring some sides that happend to be represented by current CSM members.
It's better for them to take the hatchet to the massive LP faucet and then address any imbalances in future iterations than to delay fixing the massive LP faucet because of imbalances that a fix is likely to create. ~hth~
This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting.
fofofofofo |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
Liandri Covenant
267
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 11:25:00 -
[300] - Quote
Andski wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:You really are stupid, no one is going to defend systems for isk because LP is pretty much worthless, but you really favor minmatar and gallente on this change by making sure that they manage to defend several systems from vulnerable to contested.
Maximize the fuckup ! Well done, CCP should really kick some devs who 1st made horrible isk farm and then they fix it by favoring some sides that happend to be represented by current CSM members. It's better for them to take the hatchet to the massive LP faucet and then address any imbalances in future iterations than to delay fixing the massive LP faucet because of imbalances that a fix is likely to create. ~hth~
i am sure you can fix lp faucet without ******* up possibility to adapt |
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