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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 22 post(s)
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 170	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:28:00 - [211] - Quote I personally think the current tier system encourages conflict. Why not change everything BUT the tier system? The new upgrade system is good, there are now measures to stop overplexing, and now gunless frigate noobs will no longer easily do them. The current tier system will make it so that militias will have to go in fierce fighting to get better rewards. I forsee the value of FW LP to be pennies. The problem I saw was that it was too easy to do for the amount you could make.
Nex apparatu5 Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore 369	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:28:00 - [212] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: *LP Gain = Base value of plex (Contested percentage of the system/100) * 0.75** if this is true then potentially each minor plex is worth 7.5k LP * 2-4k isk/lp = 15-30 million isk/plex. 5-6 plexes/hour = 75 to 180 million isk/hour. Not bad for a 1 day old alt. Try doing that with your high sec mining alt. There won't be 23/7 farming like there is now, but there will still be plenty of "farming of opportunity" or "low intensity, high reward" farming. Farmers are gonna farm. Probably closer to 500 isk/LP, which is more like 20m/hr, which you can do with a hisec mining alt.
Ashterothi Aideron Robotics 42	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:30:00 - [213] - Quote I would argue that simply BEING in lowsec is more risky then all of missioning.

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 1960	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:33:00 - [214] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: Susan Black wrote: The defensive/offensive idea Hans is talking about is making it so that you have to shoot rats in defensive plexes as well. I think this is in response to some concern about the ability to farm defensive plexes without the risk of NPC interference. If someone wants to farm defensive plexes, more power to them. The payout is pretty **, per Fozzie's equaltion. LP Gain = Base value of plex * (Contested percentage of the system/100) * 0.75** They payout strictly from the T2 base (modified downwards by contested percentage) ... there is no warzone control scaling. So the ISK/hour potential is very low. Thus, there is no real problem here. That formula is to calculate the payout in relation to offensive plexing. All activites that generate LP for the faction militias will be scaled based on faction tier at this time. We'll be watching defensive plexing carefully and if it gets overfarmed it's trivial for us to adjust the formula. We chose that calculation with ease of adjustment in mind. Game Designer \| Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie

Weitkunat Moira. Villore Accords 0	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:33:00 - [215] - Quote Soon Shin wrote: I personally think the current tier system encourages conflict. Why not change everything BUT the tier system? The new upgrade system is good, there are now measures to stop overplexing, and now gunless frigate noobs will no longer easily do them. The current tier system will make it so that militias will have to go in fierce fighting to get better rewards. I forsee the value of FW LP to be pennies. The problem I saw was that it was too easy to do for the amount you could make. Honestly I'd stay in FW even if there was zero reward. PVP is fun.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 170	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:33:00 - [216] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: I would argue that simply BEING in lowsec is more risky then all of missioning. From how I see it the big issue was the simply the silly noob frigate farmers doing the plexes with ease. But now that is gone, it takes effort to do them. The Current tier system is fine, it is a true conflict driver between factions. The new tier system is not so much, all it does is cause LP inflation and reduces the value of LP to the point where it does become worth much.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 170	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:34:00 - [217] - Quote Weitkunat wrote: Soon Shin wrote: I personally think the current tier system encourages conflict. Why not change everything BUT the tier system? The new upgrade system is good, there are now measures to stop overplexing, and now gunless frigate noobs will no longer easily do them. The current tier system will make it so that militias will have to go in fierce fighting to get better rewards. I forsee the value of FW LP to be pennies. The problem I saw was that it was too easy to do for the amount you could make. Honestly I'd stay in FW even if there was zero reward. PVP is fun. I personally think PVP involving local is not "PVP". Wormhole space is true pvp.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 623	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:35:00 - [218] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: *LP Gain = Base value of plex (Contested percentage of the system/100) * 0.75** if this is true then potentially each minor plex is worth 7.5k LP * 2-4k isk/lp = 15-30 million isk/plex. 5-6 plexes/hour = 75 to 180 million isk/hour. Not bad for a 1 day old alt. Try doing that with your high sec mining alt. There won't be 23/7 farming like there is now, but there will still be plenty of "farming of opportunity" or "low intensity, high reward" farming. Farmers are gonna farm. i think you missed the part where you cant speed tank anymore you actually have to kill the npc to take the outpost... though if you are talking about defence plex farming... then yeah... there is potential for that but... hanz idea of having npc's switch depending on who took it over would defeat this from hapening... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Weitkunat Moira. Villore Accords 2	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:35:00 - [219] - Quote Soon Shin wrote: Weitkunat wrote: Soon Shin wrote: I personally think the current tier system encourages conflict. Why not change everything BUT the tier system? The new upgrade system is good, there are now measures to stop overplexing, and now gunless frigate noobs will no longer easily do them. The current tier system will make it so that militias will have to go in fierce fighting to get better rewards. I forsee the value of FW LP to be pennies. The problem I saw was that it was too easy to do for the amount you could make. Honestly I'd stay in FW even if there was zero reward. PVP is fun. I personally think PVP involving local is not "PVP". Wormhole space is true pvp. I agree. But that's a whole other can of worms.
Louis deGuerre The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities 485	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:41:00 - [220] - Quote This is a suprise. A good suprise mind you. I actually expected this to go much further of the rails before a reaction. That said, it is not good enough. I'd try to get some priority on those items you've put on the backlog. Keep up the good work. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1
MadMuppet A Better Corp Name 576	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:43:00 - [221] - Quote Cool, I might actually want to go in to FW now. However, I am surprised by the lack of rage in this thread. If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy.
Weitkunat Moira. Villore Accords 2	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:45:00 - [222] - Quote MadMuppet wrote: Cool, I might actually want to go in to FW now. However, I am surprised by the lack of rage in this thread. Lots of folks really wanted changes like this. But yes, I too expected little carebear farmer tears.
Ashterothi Aideron Robotics 42	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:45:00 - [223] - Quote If all this information is correct Caldari have a major advantage, but we will see
Jaime Gomes God's Equasion 1	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:50:00 - [224] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: If all this information is correct Caldari have a major advantage, but we will see LoL how?
Teh Nurffe Nasranite Watch Liandri Covenant 0	Posted - 2012.10.22 22:53:00 - [225] - Quote Weitkunat wrote: MadMuppet wrote: Cool, I might actually want to go in to FW now. However, I am surprised by the lack of rage in this thread. Lots of folks really wanted changes like this. But yes, I too expected little carebear farmer tears. You will see tears after this patch is live and people start to understand what these changes really do
Marrakech Olivia Minter GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy 0	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:00:00 - [226] - Quote CCP Soundwave wrote: SURPRISE! 10/10. It's not **** if you shout surprise.
Ashterothi Aideron Robotics 42	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:01:00 - [227] - Quote Jaime Gomes wrote: Ashterothi wrote: If all this information is correct Caldari have a major advantage, but we will see LoL how? Well, most of the Gallente owned systems are super deep vulnerable right now, if Cal plays their cards right they could flip them and have fresh nice systems for the future. The chances of us deplexing more then you flip is pretty low in my estimation, but again we shall see.
Caellach Marellus Aideron Technologies 612	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:01:00 - [228] - Quote Jaime Gomes wrote: Ashterothi wrote: If all this information is correct Caldari have a major advantage, but we will see LoL how? Because if you spend less time qqing on the forums and more time bunkerbusting, you can get the last flip on most of the systems while they're currently sat at Vulnerable before downtime. Enjoy your gaming. http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com
Eli Green The Arrow Project 25	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:03:00 - [229] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: Jaime Gomes wrote: Good to see csm supporting this. They support everything CCP does. (In this case, the support is appropriate.) They are nothing, if not excellent cheerleaders. Which makes you an extremely jealous person who didn't make the squad
Jaime Gomes God's Equasion 1	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:07:00 - [230] - Quote Caellach Marellus wrote: Jaime Gomes wrote: Ashterothi wrote: If all this information is correct Caldari have a major advantage, but we will see LoL how? Because if you spend less time qqing on the forums and more time bunkerbusting, you can get the last flip on most of the systems while they're currently sat at Vulnerable before downtime. The ultra high being of the galaxy as spoken! Lookout for your horns dont hit the ceiling. Besides who said im not bunkerbusting? Basing on the fact this character is offline O great being of the galaxy?
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation 189	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:10:00 - [231] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Vyktor Abyss wrote: This blog also caught my eye for the lack of talk of any real system upgrades.... The majority of my feedback was concerning how uninspiring I found your [CCP] vision and plans for those system upgrades and that they were the key element and resource of making people actually want to fight over FW space. I was very surprised to read nothing about them - can you please re-examine your plans for those for the next iteration (after tomorrow). They will still be the key to strategic goals and longer term fun for FW folks after the development spotlight moves away from FW. All in all though, a very welcome surprise. Cheers. Like Fozzie said, this isn't the entire FW package, just a rollout of the already-finished stuff. Moving the button to the warp-in, new system upgrades, NPC changes, and more will still all be coming in Retribution. The dev blog is just talking about the imminent changes and the new changes to the old plan, its not a replacement for the roadmap previously discussed in the other two official threads. Appreciate the reply from you Hans but I don't think you understood me. I realise this is stage one of 'the roadmap' that was presented to us in those two forum threads. More will come later - I was asking CCP to please re-examine that roadmap after this set of changes settle in. My belief and posts in those threads are that the planned system upgrades in that roadmap are terribly uninspired; specifically they only really improve/apply to station systems with research facilities - they needsa lot of further work. I'd also question whether our feedback is actually desired or relevant if like with such a clear 'roadmap' CCP already know their destination and are merely informing us passengers of where they are going, or whether 'we' actually get any say in that direction they are taking - you clearly do but on several key areas (like defensive plexing remaining different to offensive plexing) I strongly disagree with you. Even another suggestion would be for defensive plexing becoming more like the "Cost of Hubris" FW mission where you actually have to remote rep your friendlies until the 'attack' is neutralised (which might be more fun and engaging). But out of the box ideas and suggestions like that seem irrelevant/easily dismissed when CCP already have their roadmap planned and have their FW 'CSM' rep telling them this is how it must/should be done. The feedback process is all quite disheartening compared to pre CSM days IMHO. Cheers.
Weitkunat Moira. Villore Accords 2	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:35:00 - [232] - Quote Vyktor Abyss wrote: Edit: Just wanted to re-iterate that the main issue all these changes will have is that they will massively stagnate the already pretty stagnant warzones (as many other long term FW players have spotted). [b]Nothing is changing here to make the warzone more PVP related as it all still revolves around boring PVE button orbiting. If that's what you really think, that's just sad, and if it's so boring, then maybe you should quit FW.
Dinsdale Pirannha Pirannha Corp 361	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:52:00 - [233] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: Scrapyard Bob wrote: I'm not really convinced on the connection between FW and rising PLEX prices. Unless it meant that there were a few hundred new accounts created solely for the farming of FW LP and they were powered with PLEX, which may have increased demand enough on PLEX purchases to drive up costs. I think the simpler explanation is that the poor economic climate in the real world means fewer people are willing to splurge on buying PLEX/GTC to sell in-game for ISK. Combine that with the new features that CCP rolls out like a re-sculpt for PLEX, new AUR items, and other things that can be bought with PLEX and you have too much demand compared to the supply. (And maybe toss in a little speculator action.) CCP has alot of data. For example, they can tell how many people were: Not using PLEX pre Inferno, Joined FW with main or alts, Started using PLEX soon after. So if they say they see a connection, chances are they got the data. And it shows up all the liars who were saying "free market rules. Plex prices not affected by FW." I would love to sift through all the posts by all the liars and propagandists and create a separate thread for each, but that would just take so much time.
Smoke Adian 57	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:56:00 - [234] - Quote It's about time FW was returned to its grave.
Iris Bravemount Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 86	Posted - 2012.10.22 23:58:00 - [235] - Quote Sorry to spoil the general enthousiasm, but to me, this seems like a veeeeerry bad system. Basically, what this means, is that the winning side will bathe in LP (and thus ISK) while the losing side has no chance to recover because whatever they do just yields 6.5 times less LP (and thus ISK) than when the opposing side does just the same thing. The losing side will HAVE to bring PvE ships to plex, while the winning side can just farm those PvE ships and get ridiculous amounts of LP from defensive plexing (with no rats shooting them). How can this even seem like a good idea? If the losing side has no way of getting back on its feet, FW is essentially dead. PS: Didn't read all the 12 pages, sorry if I'm repeating what someone else said before. I accidentally... the bookmark. How much is it worth?
X Gallentius Justified Chaos 540	Posted - 2012.10.23 00:02:00 - [236] - Quote Jaime Gomes wrote: Ashterothi wrote: If all this information is correct Caldari have a major advantage, but we will see LoL how? Ten bazillion percent over-farmed systems will still be vulnerable for a week as Gallente alts plex them down. In that time, Caldari can cap systems and take majority control of FW arena. Get to work!
X Gallentius Justified Chaos 540	Posted - 2012.10.23 00:04:00 - [237] - Quote Iris Bravemount wrote: Basically, what this means, is that the winning side will bathe in LP (and thus ISK) while the losing side has no chance to recover because whatever they do just yields 6.5 times less LP (and thus ISK) than when the opposing side does just the same thing. . Yeah well.... you wanted consequences didn't you? Suck it up and run high sec missions like we used to back in the old days, sonny. On a serious note, with the new system you can still keep yourself funded even at the lowest tier.
Omnicide Incarnate Imperial Outlaws 12	Posted - 2012.10.23 00:10:00 - [238] - Quote So uh... I dont see anything thats going to make it any easier to make FW interesting when ur outnumbered 4 to 1
Iris Bravemount Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 86	Posted - 2012.10.23 00:12:00 - [239] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: Yeah well.... you wanted consequences didn't you? Suck it up and run high sec missions like we used to back in the old days, sonny. On a serious note, with the new system you can still keep yourself funded even at the lowest tier. I am not in FW because I want to kill rats. Even if you can sustain yourself on the losing side, what's the point of fighting if you KNOW that you can never win because your opponent just has 6.5 times your income? I accidentally... the bookmark. How much is it worth?
Weitkunat Moira. Villore Accords 2	Posted - 2012.10.23 00:16:00 - [240] - Quote Omnicide Incarnate wrote: So uh... I dont see anything thats going to make it any easier to make FW interesting when ur outnumbered 4 to 1 You should strive to outnumber your opponent in every engagement. Iris Bravemount wrote: X Gallentius wrote: Yeah well.... you wanted consequences didn't you? Suck it up and run high sec missions like we used to back in the old days, sonny. On a serious note, with the new system you can still keep yourself funded even at the lowest tier. I am not in FW because I want to kill rats. Even if you can sustain yourself on the losing side, what's the point of fighting if you KNOW that you can never win because your opponent just has 6.5 times your income? Guerilla warfare.

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