Is this in the normal DT or is it going to be extended?

Aiming to have this out within the normal downtime schedule. No extended downtime.

I'm really glad to see ahead-of-schedule fixes to these sort of imbalances. I also appreciate the hilarity of dropping this change with a day's notice two months early as it's going to create an absolutely hilarious day in Jita and FW.

There's a certain flavor of tasteless joke involving screaming "Surprise!"

CCP (and Game of Drones in particular), you have all my love for doing it to FW farmers with less than 24h notice. I am so looking forward to the tears from this.

Not really.
It just means that two factions will run a dump while two factions are stuck with their LP

burn baby burn, judgement day is upon us, you heathens shall sin no more.

To implement this earlier is biggest fuckup CCP can make in FW ever

Where these on test server or we just hoping everything will be fine?

I'm quoting this for later.

could you please explain why?

To implement this earlier is biggest fuckup CCP can make in FW ever

First tears here?`

What happens if there's no real tears and everyone just shrugs and agrees this change is for the best? What then? Can we get some folks to come in and roleplay some tears?

We will be implementing a cap on the number of missions one character can have open at once. This cap will affect all Security, Distribution and Mining missions, not just FW missions. The exceptions to the limit will be Storyline, Cosmos and Epic Arc missions. The current plan is for the cap to be 5 simultaneous missions.

Cheap attribute implants will be floating around in the market for years.

SURPRISE!

I was looking forward to the re positioning of the capture / defending nodes in the faction ware fare plexes. Did I miss that in this blog? I did not see it.

As far as I know this is still planned, just not for imminent release. This was one of my first questions too!

To implement this earlier is biggest fuckup CCP can make in FW ever

I was looking forward to the re positioning of the capture / defending nodes in the faction ware fare plexes. Did I miss that in this blog? I did not see it.

Oh baby baby

I'm not really convinced on the connection between FW and rising PLEX prices. Unless it meant that there were a few hundred new accounts created solely for the farming of FW LP and they were powered with PLEX, which may have increased demand enough on PLEX purchases to drive up costs.

I think the simpler explanation is that the poor economic climate in the real world means fewer people are willing to splurge on buying PLEX/GTC to sell in-game for ISK. Combine that with the new features that CCP rolls out like a re-sculpt for PLEX, new AUR items, and other things that can be bought with PLEX and you have too much demand compared to the supply.

(And maybe toss in a little speculator action.)

Yup, all of the stuff in the linked forum posts by Ytterbium is still in the plan, with the exception of the "Any defender anywhere in the plex stops capture" thing which the community correctly pointed out to us wasn't going to be a positive change.

Good news everybody! Some of the Factional Warfare changes have been deemed ready for prime time and will be going out ahead of schedule.

Thank you for vindicating all my doom'n'gloom. Saddens me on the behalf of FW that I was not proven wrong though

As be of the many abusing your **** up, deemed ready a WHOLE month before initial release. I can see this rushed pile of shite going well, I'd rather you just disabled the whole tier system the now and release on the planned date.

If that is the case, then it would be great to hear why it is so in your opinion. Just saying that you think something would be bad doesn't help our developers to figure out eventual issues.

....Front is going to stagnate a bit ...

A bit .. did you read the same blog as I did, they are doubling (2x) buffers/upgrades and decreasing bleed by a whopping 80% .. that is a factor ten compared to current, Have fun plexing that down when defender gets points for being AFK on top

Systems held after DT will not flip in the foreseeable future, will be nigh impossible to do, so map tomorrow will be as static as null has been for the past year+ (excepting renter/sheep changes).

As for pew increasing .. I checked the data and the spike didn't really happen until the farm was running which means that it is millionaire-fights (as opposed to bum-fights before) .. all FW boards should move the digit in the kill value one or two places to the left. ... hahahahahah
Personally never took pleasure in killing, was purely out of service (RP) and quite frankly see no point in it if it has zero effect on anything which is what infinite ISK (effectively) means. War without recognized costs is just a slaughter (ref: WWI).

What scares and annoys me is that this is supposedly the last iterative pass for the time being, tweaks here and there probably but what they push on the morrow is what you have to live with for the next two or three years .. not really seeing it.

By the way, CCP: Are you going to develop the storyline at all? Has been completely frozen for ages.

If that is the case, then it would be great to hear why it is so in your opinion. Just saying that you think something would be bad doesn't help our developers to figure out eventual issues.

Hmm. Seems the only posting the CSM does now is to cheerlead devblogs.

At least we know the CSM is doing their job marketing the game.

There was certainly massive levels of dialogue. Have you seen the threads?

And the only thing wrong right now is that PVP has gone from OMGWTF MASSIVE levels to OMGWTF incredible levels lately. Kills/corp are still over 2x times they were before May. So, sorry to disappoint. INFERNO WAS GREAT for FW.

But otherwise I agree a bit. Farmers will move to defensive plexing. Front is going to stagnate a bit - but it's been pretty stagnant lately anyways - where it counts. I think it will be easier for small groups to hold space because defensive farmers will do most of their defensive work for them, but it may be tougher for small groups to take a system for the same reason.

Tomorrow is definitely not the last FW patch in the near future. We're still releasing another set of changes in Retribution at the very least.

And as for the storyline, all I can tell you is that I'm very excited about what I know is coming, and I'm not privy to all of the secret plans.

GÇóHave plex capture timers visible to everyone in system so you can easily tell which plexes are close to being captured.

alert
plex price crashes in multiple sectors incomeing
Price increase also coming in other sectors.


inb4 holycrapsauce

i realise the afk plex system has to change as it's too easy to speed tank the plex

i do however believe having to kill the npc's which will in turn absolutely destroy your faction standings will disuade a large number of players from FW

personally i'm already -10 with amarr faction so this won't affect me, i do however think it will stop a lot of people doing offensive plexes, especially with defensive plexes offering lp as well, even if it's on a smaller scale

so perhaps lower the standing hit from the npc's in the fw plexes or i do see it becoming a graveyard.

My devblogs bring all the capsuleers to the yard.

In all seriousness, it's one of the side effects of showing dev blogs to the CSM ahead of time and often incorporating some of their feedback before release.

I appologize for being a bit ignorant on this subject, but how exactly does this effect PLEX prices? I have heard people are getting a lot of ISK out of some imbalance or other in FW. But how does this directly effect PLEX sales? Do people with a lot of cash just buy PLEX for the thrills? I'm just curious how it all works.

Being in the opposite factions militia should absolutely tank your standings. This just makes sense.

Hmm. Seems the only posting the CSM does now is to cheerlead devblogs.

At least we know the CSM is doing their job marketing the game.

I'm not always with this guy, but when I am, it's blatantly obvious why.

Going into Faction warfare and maintaining good standings with the faction you're fighting against should be mutually exclusive.

Man, Grid, you are with me more often than not, at least in OOC things. lets just admit we are buds. <3

CCP has alot of data. For example, they can tell how many people were:

Not using PLEX pre Inferno,
Joined FW with main or alts,
Started using PLEX soon after.

So if they say they see a connection, chances are they got the data.

I agree that FW is broken, but in my opinion a serious producer like CCP should stick to their words. I guess from now on they can't be trusted 100% anymore.

Hmm. Seems the only posting the CSM does now is to cheerlead devblogs.

Count me in in the "this should have happened a lot sooner" crowd, but better late than ne....err, later?


@Fozzie: As far as I can determine defensive plexes still spawn friendly NPCs, which begs the question of why a player needs to be there at all. Any plans to make them spawn hostile NPCs instead? It's just about the last farming magnet available and probably should be looked at...

Well, get elected to CSM8 and change all that, then

IMHO, there should be only one type of plex period, with NPC's spawning either way.

I'm sorry to disturb you sir, but but but..... is there any chance I can direct your attention over to the Combat Cruiser thread. It's getting really terribubble whatever that is.

Because by limiting the number of missions they can just grab and mass farm at once. They have to fight their way through repeatedly.

As opposed to "Grab all the things once, then come back to repeat"

It stops missions being the primary LP source in FW post changes.

I've got stuff just about ready to post there, been a bit busy for obvious reasons

OMFG?!?

Are you seriously championing Susan Black's idea that plexes should have NO ship restrictions whatsoever? Do you just blindly agree with every dumb idea she puts forward?

Who got elected to the CSM? You or her? You don't seem to do much independent thinking, that's for sure.

...It stops missions being the primary LP source in FW post changes.

OMFG?!?

Are you seriously championing Susan Black's idea that plexes should have NO ship restrictions whatsoever? Do you just blindly agree with every dumb idea she puts forward?

Who got elected to the CSM? You or her? You don't seem to do much independent thinking, that's for sure.

"We will be implementing a cap on the number of missions one character can have open at once. This cap will affect all Security, Distribution and Mining missions, not just FW missions. The exceptions to the limit will be Storyline, Cosmos and Epic Arc missions. The current plan is for the cap to be 5 simultaneous missions."

Say what? How does this fix anything.

with no announced changes or policy in regards to missions you use militia alt/main to collect and pop missions while running them in non-militia alt (officially not allowed but to my knowledge not enforced).
Not as much as cash-out system of today, but combined with defensive farms the amount of total LP generated should be roughly the same.

This blog also caught my eye for the lack of talk of any real system upgrades.... The majority of my feedback was concerning how uninspiring I found your [CCP] vision and plans for those system upgrades and that they were the key element and resource of making people actually want to fight over FW space. I was very surprised to read nothing about them - can you please re-examine your plans for those for the next iteration (after tomorrow). They will still be the key to strategic goals and longer term fun for FW folks after the development spotlight moves away from FW.

All in all though, a very welcome surprise.

Cheers.

But the system being implemented will be set in stone as it were, yes? So will those future patches be more than the NPC/ Plex changes and tweaks to the various spreadsheets .. that is my concern, because I frankly don't see how switching from swarming Zerg mechanics to a bunkering Terran ditto will do much for FW when it comes to fun/gameplay.

Don't know your sensitivity, you could be one of those people who get faint at the mention of a new iphone coming out even when knowing it will be more of the same .. just saying
Otherwise, good to know. Maddening neglect on that front so will be happy that anything is coming really ..

Like Fozzie said, this isn't the entire FW package, just a rollout of the already-finished stuff. Moving the button to the warp-in, new system upgrades, NPC changes, and more will still all be coming in Retribution. The dev blog is just talking about the imminent changes and the new changes to the old plan, its not a replacement for the roadmap previously discussed in the other two official threads.

Personally I believe the largest payouts possible should be for killing rival faction pilots, not territory games, but I know that is difficult to keep free of alt exploitation.

All I said was that you shouldn't be able to defensive plex without killing anything. There should be stuff to shoot either way. If not people, than NPC's. Effortless D-plexing for LP is just as bad as effortless O-plexing for LP.

Not really. LP reward from killing an enemy pilot is based upon the worth of their ship when destroyed.

So, unless someone wants to use an alt to start blowing up their main's 200M ISK ships, the LP gain for this sort of exploitation is going to be reasonably low (not too mention slow.) Of course, the LP gained has to have an estimated ISK worth well below what the blowed-up ship is worth.

We've tested it internally on test servers not open to the public (first on an internal server then on Buckingham, which you may have noticed was in VIP mode since the end of last week).

You said no such thing. You wrote "there should be only one type of plex period" and there's really only one way to interpret that.

You said no such thing. You wrote "there should be only one type of plex period" and there's really only one way to interpret that.

Wow!

Wasn't the platform of most of this CSM to be more TRANSPARENT? Or have you conveniently forgotten those promises.

Hilarious.

Say what?

Ranger1 says he wishes the largest payouts came from killing other faction's pilots, but that it would be hard to reward that heavily without it being exploited.

You disagree (with something), and point out exactly why ship destruction isn't the highest reward: because of the exploit-proof implementation.

What was your point?

MAGICAL!!! SIMPLY MAGICAL!

24 hours notice. Espetacular! Especially for a paying customer. Thanks for the apretiation of being treated like dirt for the 24 hours notice. THe consideration for the players was imense. Trully unbefuking leavable.

"oh those evil afk plexers!". Like afk plexers will end with this. like plexing will end with this.

Thanks for locking up lp's of thousands of characters. this will fail either way . people will completely abandom amarr for good. and caldari will go the same way. just gallente and minmatar from now on. And the only flippings will be done by swutching for a few days and rejoin the other militia. Even alts can do that. Your work will resume to 0. only less billionaires in the game. now they will just be millionaires.

RIP caldari militia. If we dont flip systems tonight.

MAGICAL!!! SIMPLY MAGICAL!

24 hours notice. Espetacular! Especially for a paying customer. Thanks for the apretiation of being treated like dirt for the 24 hours notice. THe consideration for the players was imense. Trully unbefuking leavable.

"oh those evil afk plexers!". Like afk plexers will end with this. like plexing will end with this.

Thanks for locking up lp's of thousands of characters. this will fail either way . people will completely abandom amarr for good. and caldari will go the same way. just gallente and minmatar from now on. And the only flippings will be done by swutching for a few days and rejoin the other militia. Even alts can do that. Your work will resume to 0. only less billionaires in the game. now they will just be millionaires.

RIP caldari militia. If we dont flip systems tonight.

Farmers will move to defensive plexing.

btw i forgott. Good to see csm supporting this. ffs

They're only going to get paid worth a damn for d-plexing when doing so in heavily-contested systems, which means (thanks to needing to kill the rats) they'll be plexing in systems with lots of armed enemies right there. I wish them luck.

They're only going to get paid worth a damn for d-plexing when doing so in heavily-contested systems, which means (thanks to needing to kill the rats) they'll be plexing in systems with lots of armed enemies right there. I wish them luck.

..Personally I believe the largest payouts possible should be for killing rival faction pilots, not territory games, but I know that is difficult to keep free of alt exploitation.

The most efficient way to run FW missions is to take your warp core optimized interceptor to every single agent and pick up a mission. Then you go run them all at once which increases efficiency because I think the missions were originally balanced with the expectation that the player would make 12 jumps or more per mission. If you run them all at once, then the travel time from agent to mission is reduced since you only have to make the initial trip to the enemy warzone once.

Limiting the number of open missions directly nerfs the maximum LP/hour a hard core FW mission farmer can make. It doesn't, however, nerf the amount of LP/hour a more casual mission runner can achieve.

you really think that some one will still attack plex?

They're only going to get paid worth a damn for d-plexing when doing so in heavily-contested systems, which means (thanks to needing to kill the rats) they'll be plexing in systems with lots of armed enemies right there. I wish them luck.

I didn't manage to get these answered in the last FW thread so here goes:

1) will the faction navy still try to kill you in highsec if you have low faction standing?
2) How about after you leave FW?
3) If the answers to the above are both yes, then is there a plan to allow us to recover faction standing more than once? Data centres/epic arc can only be done the once.

Good patch, thank god enough warning was given to the players to make strategic decisions before such a big change.

Oh wai-

Still at least it will stop the carebears from cashing out one last time

Oh wait.


Yes its a good update and anything that nerfs farmers is good, but ninja patching isn't cool, mkay?

I still don't like the idea of plexes showing up on the overview for everyone, especially if there's going to be a clock next to it showing it counting down (btw, don't recall seeing that suggested in any of the FW threads).

But now that you have done this CCP what are you going to do about Isk inflation..

Lp stores work as a decent isk sink.. With the current rate of inflation in eve don't you think you need to do something radical to fight it?

(I say increase HS tax to 10% and nerf all HS isk paying activities by 25% )

OMFG?!?

Are you seriously championing Susan Black's idea that plexes should have NO ship restrictions whatsoever? Do you just blindly agree with every dumb idea she puts forward?

Who got elected to the CSM? You or her? You don't seem to do much independent thinking, that's for sure.

I still don't like the idea of plexes showing up on the overview for everyone, especially if there's going to be a clock next to it showing it counting down (btw, don't recall seeing that suggested in any of the FW threads).

If you're in the militia, your onboard scanner should be able to find the plex; if you're not in militia, you need to scan them down.
If you're in the militia, your onboard scanner should be able to find the FW mission beacons; if you're not in the militia, you need to scan them down.
Plexes in a system should be part of the FW window if you're in the militia. Double click the system, and it shows you the loaded plexes, and their countdown timers if running. If you're in the system, you can warp to from the window.

The plexes and missions should be for militia based pvp, and pirates should have to work for their targets, not be spoonfed them by an overview.

Jesus man, breathe.

He was talking about removing the difference between defensive and offensive plexes, not size limitations. Learn to context.

Caldari FW mission running alt spotted.
Perhaps the 75k LP/day run by the Caldari was a bit too overwhelming for the devs to look the other way. Still, that 75k LP will go a long way after the patch, and you guys don't even have to spend a week busting bunkers - (not that the farming alts did any of that sort of thing anyways).

Do you just blindly agree with every dumb scandal DHD tries to convince you is worth bleating about?

All I said was that you shouldn't be able to defensive plex without killing anything. There should be stuff to shoot either way. If not people, than NPC's. Effortless D-plexing for LP is just as bad as effortless O-plexing for LP.

I've always defended ship restrictions, my public record is easily accessible. Go read the minutes again, there's no need for the "puppetmasta" bullshit.

you really think that some one will still attack plex?

Obvious troll always obvious. Check you dead km's and see me on your dead bed.


Besides try to flip systems under 24h without people even knowing whats happening.

It appears caldari is starting to bunker bash right now, so it seems it is possible to get people together on short notice.

If Amarr can flip most of the systems in a night, I don't see why the Caldari can't.

It appears caldari is starting to bunker bash right now, so it seems it is possible to get people together on short notice.

Edit: appears minnie isn't having any troubles flipping the few amarr ones either.

Damar gonna rage. We gonna thank him for it.


I think earlier changes to FW were good(I was involved in them, and I am now a part of them).
And I think these changes are wonderful.

That is because this patch will effectively nerf the afk alt LP farming, and make plexing more of a combat instance.
It will also redefine what people use for plexing.

What is more, it turns defensive plexing from completely lacking rewards to rewarding within reason, to contain LP farming on that side, while still making it "more worth the effort" for those who are actually trying to decontest a system.


A part of the great number of pve characters joining the caldari militia which characterize a very large part of it for it's incompetence in pvp, join for the reason that missioning and plexing is so easy and rewarding.
With these changes, it is possible the scales will be tending to a better balance, even though missioning will remain easier on the caldari side.


faction warfare is not about farming.

tell me one reason why Damar would rage?

If Amarr can flip most of the systems in a night, I don't see why the Caldari can't.

Because there's 1/2 as many systems in Amarr/Min FW as there are in Gal/Cal.

And because the Minnies have instantly gone on the offensive and the Amarr currently now hold 3 Amarr and 1 Min system, there's not much chance of them flipping anything.

Meanwhile the Caldari have pulled back 3-4 systems, in a desperate bid to get as much as possible before the Gal US fleets turn up.

Yesterday I was thinking of investing in PLEX. For some reason I decided not to, and just bought what I needed to support my accounts.

Lucky me.

you are one of the few people that's deranged enough to understand him, take a look at your own raging posts in here, lacking logic and reason. Then imagine Damar.

Indeed.

Personally I think it would be highly amusing for NPC's of the opposite faction to show up regardless of whether you are offensive or defensive plexing. It would get REALLY interesting when NPC's from both sides begin to spawn while a battle between players is taking place in the PLEX, especially if the NPC's would include the rival NPC's as viable targets.

Now that would be fun.

I am not really raging anything just saying that less than day is not fair for all militias, but as we know already CCP favors always gallente/minmatar block.

OMFG?!?

Are you seriously championing Susan Black's idea that plexes should have NO ship restrictions whatsoever? Do you just blindly agree with every dumb idea she puts forward?

Who got elected to the CSM? You or her? You don't seem to do much independent thinking, that's for sure.

I am not really raging anything just saying ... as we know already CCP favors always gallente/minmatar block.

You're right, conspiracy theories aren't always full of rage. But if they go un-medicated, they will develop into rage.

guess who is trying to make tier 5 lp dump today

True story bra. the 24 hours is a joke. only favours the ones with the advantage. Besides the most aproppriate situation would be to reset all systems. But then again they didnt reset them the last time they upgraded inferno.

I'll be watching this thread very closely. Thanks to everyone who has helped us get to this point and we're committed to continuing forward.

guess who is trying to make tier 5 lp dump today

I am not really raging anything just saying that less than day is not fair for all militias, but as we know already CCP favors always gallente/minmatar block.

Actually considering gal currently holds the systems, but almost all of them are in vulnerable, it could be a very interesting couple of days.

I look forward to it.

Say what?

Ranger1 says he wishes the largest payouts came from killing other faction's pilots, but that it would be hard to reward that heavily without it being exploited.

You disagree (with something), and point out exactly why ship destruction isn't the highest reward: because of the exploit-proof implementation.

What was your point?

Good to see csm supporting this.

They support everything CCP does. (In this case, the support is appropriate.) They are nothing, if not excellent cheerleaders.

The defensive/offensive idea Hans is talking about is making it so that you have to shoot rats in defensive plexes as well. I think this is in response to some concern about the ability to farm defensive plexes without the risk of NPC interference.

They support everything CCP does. (In this case, the support is appropriate.) They are nothing, if not excellent cheerleaders.

OK, so here's a question I have. It's based out of a lack of knowledge in the 1st place.

Is there a currently a cap on how over-contested a system can be? And if there is no cap, will there be a cap in this new system? Currently it's an effort in futility to try and decontest a vulnerable system. I think.

This is going to be awesome, especially after the proposed NPC changes. Faction warfare should be about (gasp!) warfare, not farming the system to hell and back for ISK.

Did I say otherwise?

guess who is trying to make tier 5 lp dump today

What happens if there's no real tears and everyone just shrugs and agrees this change is for the best? What then? Can we get some folks to come in and roleplay some tears?

OK, so here's a question I have. It's based out of a lack of knowledge in the 1st place.

Is there a currently a cap on how over-contested a system can be? And if there is no cap, will there be a cap in this new system? Currently it's an effort in futility to try and decontest a vulnerable system. I think.

if this is true then potentially each minor plex is worth 7.5k LP * 2-4k isk/lp = 15-30 million isk/plex.
5-6 plexes/hour = 75 to 180 million isk/hour. Not bad for a 1 day old alt. Try doing that with your high sec mining alt.

There won't be 23/7 farming like there is now, but there will still be plenty of "farming of opportunity" or "low intensity, high reward" farming.

Farmers are gonna farm.

if this is true then potentially each minor plex is worth 7.5k LP * 2-4k isk/lp = 15-30 million isk/plex.
5-6 plexes/hour = 75 to 180 million isk/hour. Not bad for a 1 day old alt. Try doing that with your high sec mining alt.

There won't be 23/7 farming like there is now, but there will still be plenty of "farming of opportunity" or "low intensity, high reward" farming.

Farmers are gonna farm.

If someone wants to farm defensive plexes, more power to them. The payout is pretty ****, per Fozzie's equaltion.

LP Gain = Base value of plex * (Contested percentage of the system/100) * 0.75

They payout strictly from the T2 base (modified downwards by contested percentage) ... there is no warzone control scaling. So the ISK/hour potential is very low. Thus, there is no real problem here.