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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
495
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Posted - 2013.01.09 14:53:00 -
[361] - Quote
4LeafClover wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Dear Capsuleers. Two utility highslots is not the same as split weapons. All the best. -Love Fozzie This to me just shows your disconnect with the game. Have you ever flown a minmatar ship where half of your hardpoints are dedicated to one ammo type (missiles) and the other to another type (projectile) . Yes I understand what you saying "BUT IT'S NOT A COMPLETE 50/50 SPLIT...) this is true, but when you have to choose fitting 5 of one type and 3 of another, then it is pretty dang close to a 50/50 split. Just because it is a 70/30 or 60/40 split doesn't mean that it still isn't a split platform. Seriously? And you are a DEV? No wonder your suggested remedies look like crap to most of the player base. Rather than try to make the BC a less desireable class of ship, why not give this class a buff, similar to what you did with the Frigs/ cruisers? You are ruining the area of the game where the majority of your players play. BC class ships are the backbone of EVE. If you screw up these ships people will leave in droves, because they grow out of the frigs, there is nothing in between until they get to larger class ships. Seriously and stop screwing up the cane!
Dude. Keep calm, everything is going to be fine.
The Cyclone was a split-weapon platform. It is not anymore with that change. 5 launchers and 2 turrets aren't what I call "Split weapons". Just look at the Raven. It has 8 slots, 6 launcher hardpoints and a couple turret hardpoints. If I use your logic, the Raven is a split-weapon platform.
Same goes for the Tempest actually. 6 Guns, 2 launchers. Is that "split weapons" ? No.
And except for the removal of a single medium neut, the Hurricane is still fine. Just need to add like 60 or 80 PWG so it can armor tank efficiently too and it will be fine. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
36
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:02:00 -
[362] - Quote
Destroyer of Souls wrote:Well I guess that is it. Come on Harbinger. Come out back . Time to put you out of your misery. Oh come on! It cant fit beams... because of a power grid! Since when did amarrians have problems with PG? And if I cant put beams on Harb, then why are there beams at all? |
Mund Richard
244
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:05:00 -
[363] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:Destroyer of Souls wrote:Well I guess that is it. Come on Harbinger. Come out back . Time to put you out of your misery. Oh come on! It cant fit beams... because of a power grid! Since when did amarrians have problems with PG? And if I cant put beams on Harb, then why are there beams at all? I seem to recall writing somewhere how an Abaddon can't fit a full rack of two out of the three T2 beams without fitting mods if a 1600 or a LAR is added even with no prop module. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Tennessee Jack
Blac-x
3
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:05:00 -
[364] - Quote
I'll comment directly on the Prophecy.
Prophecy. WiIl it now perform better than the Myrmidon.. probably with exceptions. The prophecy has now turned into the wildcard ship. It will be an armor tank, but now it has complete access to every weapon system and every damage type. Yes it is unbonused on the hull, but you can fit any type of turret AND any type of missile. Hell you can set the ship to be a blaster boat, an Artillery ship, a Missile boat... and it now has drone access and the option for another Mid slot (which it desperately needed). If you think of your fleet being all shields.. yes the prophecy sucks.. you run an armor fleet though and the thing is now one of the best boats out there. You gain no damage bonus to turrets, but now you can shoot every ammo type, at multiple ranges, and field any type of drone you like. Prophecy, great versatile ship for armor fleets. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
110
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:08:00 -
[365] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:Since when did amarrians have problems with PG?
I lolled. |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession
114
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:11:00 -
[366] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote: Oh come on! It cant fit beams... because of a power grid! Since when did amarrians have problems with PG? And if I cant put beams on Harb, then why are there beams at all?
With a few combinations of fitting rigs and implants and meta 4 gear I bet you can, just like the cane has to for some of it's fits. *shrugs*
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Zimmy Zeta
RvB - RED Federation
5415
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:21:00 -
[367] - Quote
Tennessee Jack wrote:I'll comment directly on the Prophecy.
Prophecy. WiIl it now perform better than the Myrmidon.. probably with exceptions. The prophecy has now turned into the wildcard ship. It will be an armor tank, but now it has complete access to every weapon system and every damage type. Yes it is unbonused on the hull, but you can fit any type of turret AND any type of missile. Hell you can set the ship to be a blaster boat, an Artillery ship, a Missile boat... and it now has drone access and the option for another Mid slot (which it desperately needed). If you think of your fleet being all shields.. yes the prophecy sucks.. you run an armor fleet though and the thing is now one of the best boats out there. You gain no damage bonus to turrets, but now you can shoot every ammo type, at multiple ranges, and field any type of drone you like. Prophecy, great versatile ship for armor fleets.
But it gets an additional low slot, so you could just fit one more damage mod. It's effectively a 4%/Level bonus (if you have BC V) for the weapon of your choice.
Will there be a graphic update of the prophecy to give it -as a droneboat now- more visible dronebays? Morgan Freeman ordered me to self-destruct....now what's your excuse? |
Sir John Halsey
16
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:25:00 -
[368] - Quote
Bronya Boga wrote: Caldari: Drake is fine, no one cares for that stupid high slot. Ferox looks good now, I like it.
That stupid high slot was used by explorers. Either probe scanner for WH exploration or salvager for low sec exploration (you know, those mag sites).
Removing that high slot it is pretty much a nerf to some explorers.
Drake was already nerfed once with retribution. Less damage, less range.
New changes will nerf it even more. Less tank, harder to fit.
And as i said, indirectly a nerf to some explores.
Oh well, we will adapt. With some drones/armor training, Prophecy it can become a nice replacement for the exploration Drake. Cylone too. Less damage from missiles but with drone skills can compensate and it will have 2 useful utility slots for WH exploration.
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Ethan Revenant
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
32
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:27:00 -
[369] - Quote
Berluth Luthian wrote:Ethan Revenant wrote:Upon reflection, the Harbinger would pull through these changes a lot better if the capacitor bonus was some damage-related bonus instead, like tracking or ROF. The DPS bonus is underwhelming compared to current at anything less than (will-be-Amarr) Battlecruiser V. I have never, in my long history of Harbinger flying, had any kind of problem with the Harbinger's capacitor unless I was running my microwarpdrive forever. Sure, this would take it from "never had a problem" to "unforgiving energy hunger", but the Absolution and Abaddon cope just fine.
And, y'know, maybe not hitting the fittings as hard. I'm trying to EFT-dream a heavy pulse armor Harbinger and reality is harshing my buzz. I was so disappointed with the current Harbinger when I gained perfect fitting skills and a sweet PG implant and couldn't upgrade my fit at all. Can we not make that worse? So minmatar pilot here, but doesn't a capacitor bonus mean you can use more cap demanding crystals that do more damage? -1 turret too with just a tiny DPS increase means that the Harby will be competing for versitility with the hurricane.
I use conflag a lot and still don't have cap problems. The Harbinger has a glorious capacitor reservoir. If it lost its cap bonus, the capacitor would of course need to be altered to account for that, but right now the bonus cap from losing a turret and gaining a damage bonus is basically irrelevant.
I am hoping for the dawn of a new age wherein heavy pulse Harbingers roam as freely as 425mm Hurricanes. My skills will allow me to enjoy the full glory of the added DPS, but the heavy pulse shield Harbinger just got a whole lot more fragile and it doesn't look like the heavy pulse armor Harbinger will see a renaissance either. I am eagerly awaiting this to go live on sisi so I can toy around with it and see exactly what we're in for.
Mostly I am in love with this thread because of all of the people coming out of the woodwork in support of the Harbinger. It is the Harbinger's day to shine! This day people are fighting over it as though it were the Drake! I'm so happy for it. |
4LeafClover
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:29:00 -
[370] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:
Dude. Keep calm, everything is going to be fine.
The Cyclone was a split-weapon platform. It is not anymore with that change. 5 launchers and 2 turrets aren't what I call "Split weapons". Just look at the Raven. It has 8 slots, 6 launcher hardpoints and a couple turret hardpoints. If I use your logic, the Raven is a split-weapon platform.
Same goes for the Tempest actually. 6 Guns, 2 launchers. Is that "split weapons" ? No.
And except for the removal of a single medium neut, the Hurricane is still fine. Just need to add like 60 or 80 PWG so it can armor tank efficiently too and it will be fine.
If they are serious about trying to make the Cyclone into a gimpy Drake, then why does it have 2 fewer launcher points? Seriously? Do, or Do Not....there is no Try. If you go half way with this thing you end up with a Quasimodo piece of crap that nobody uses because there are better alternatives for on every point.
Just curious but since the Minmatar Command ships also use the Cyclone hull, should we expect to see the Minmatar Command ships forced into being missile boats too?
Basically Minmatar pilots are left with a half-baked Drake in the Cyclone, and a Hurricane that has been castrated then sodomized.
Basically CCP is telling all Minmatar pilots to go screw themselves, and find another class of ship to fly. |
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Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
579
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:37:00 -
[371] - Quote
I like the idea of toning down BCs, they've been too good and completely overpowering cruisers of any kind. The problem I'm seeing is that I don't agree to the choices so much.
First of all, for all intends and purposes the Drake remains untouched, and don't give me that bullcrap about "hml got nerfed" because the HAMs got buffed so effectively it means that the most annoying BC of them all is untouched and actually comes out better. The Cyclone I can see why people might be unhappy about it but that's more inertia than the proposed ideas being bad. The Myrm is largely untouched which is ok I guess.
My issue is the Prophecy, just like the Dragoon it seems as if they didn't know wtf to do with it, Proph gets the same ****** bandwidth the Myrm now has and is hated for and while the Myrm can make up for it with a shield tank and blaster damage the Proph has to use its lows to tank so no slots for DDA or bcs/heat sinks. In short, it was the worst and it remains the worst. Well done!
p.s. the Harb is still slow as fck. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Tennessee Jack
Blac-x
3
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:39:00 -
[372] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Tennessee Jack wrote:I'll comment directly on the Prophecy.
Prophecy. WiIl it now perform better than the Myrmidon.. probably with exceptions. The prophecy has now turned into the wildcard ship. It will be an armor tank, but now it has complete access to every weapon system and every damage type. Yes it is unbonused on the hull, but you can fit any type of turret AND any type of missile. Hell you can set the ship to be a blaster boat, an Artillery ship, a Missile boat... and it now has drone access and the option for another Mid slot (which it desperately needed). If you think of your fleet being all shields.. yes the prophecy sucks.. you run an armor fleet though and the thing is now one of the best boats out there. You gain no damage bonus to turrets, but now you can shoot every ammo type, at multiple ranges, and field any type of drone you like. Prophecy, great versatile ship for armor fleets. But it gets an additional low slot, so you could just fit one more damage mod. It's effectively a 4%/Level bonus (if you have BC V) for the weapon of your choice. Will there be a graphic update of the prophecy to give it -as a droneboat now- more visible dronebays?
Agreed with your comments on the additional low slot essentially being its damage bonus, but don't change the visual of the Prophecy. Its iconic chicken head is really what makes the ship, and is one of the most widely viewed (visual) ships in the beginning of the Eve game.
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CaileanOCT
Battlestars Black Core Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:39:00 -
[373] - Quote
The death of the Hurricane. Instead of buffing the other BCs and giving people a reason to fly them as well they are further destroying the Cane. Sad. I think I just unsubbed from the game with these changes. CCP is making the most common mistake other MMOs make. Nerf big and make each patch flavor of the month. Instead of nerf small, buff small and balance giving everyone a reason to play everything. It's pathetic.
I'm not paying CCP to give me the same crap ass "balance" as every other ****** MMO out there. With the current revamping of the ships you're supposed to be enhancing the game play for everyone and making it better for newer players. Please, do not turn this into a flavor of the month game!! |
Recoil IV
Air The Unthinkables
80
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:40:00 -
[374] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:mynnna wrote:Care to comment on BPO mineral requirement changes, or will we have to wait for the test server for those? We'll be following the same general idea as previous tiericide classes, except that the former Tier 3 BCs will continue to require more minerals than the Combat BCs due to their role and use of large turrets. Aryth wrote:Do you think you guys want to do BC then BS by Summer? Is that within the realm of doable? I'm not going to make promises until we have the planning for Summer further along, but we'll be getting as much done as quickly as we can time and resources permitting.
Fozzie,why u killing the cyclone?that ship is a legend. |
Mund Richard
244
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 15:42:00 -
[375] - Quote
4LeafClover wrote: Just curious but since the Minmatar Command ships also use the Cyclone hull, should we expect to see the Minmatar Command ships forced into being missile boats too? Taking a Wild Guess (mhm, totally wild), I'd say one turret and one missile-based. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
ConranAntoni
Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front
56
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 15:45:00 -
[376] - Quote
Why not change the Ferox optimal to a damage or RoF and change the Brutix repper bonus to a falloff bonus.
C'mon, we all know those hulls need some love, least it'll mean people will fly them. I mean who the hell even uses medium rails, their literally the most niche'/terrible cruiser sized weapon anyway. Or hell, take away the resists on the Ferox and add a damage bonus, make it a mini Naga. I mean leaving their bonus' as is makes no sense when looking at the prior t1 changes.
And the Brutix as an active tank is just blergh. You got the Myrm for that, I have no doubt some derp will post saying "BUT I HAZ L33T PEEVEEPEE WIT ACTIF BURTIX" but lets face it, their usually idiots so. Lets make **** useful. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
404
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:45:00 -
[377] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:4LeafClover wrote: Just curious but since the Minmatar Command ships also use the Cyclone hull, should we expect to see the Minmatar Command ships forced into being missile boats too? Taking a Wild Guess (mhm, totally wild), I'd say one turret and one missile-based. I like the fact that each race is being (for the most part) given a hull for each of its main weapon systems. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
58
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:47:00 -
[378] - Quote
This doesn't really seem to fit with how the smaller ship tiericide went. If each race had 3 battlecruisers, why not give them 3 different roles?
With these changes we'll have 2 combat BCs and a big gun attack BC.
Seeing as BCs are intended to use gang links and form the platform for dedicated command ships, why not treat one of these like you did with logistic frigs & cruisers?
Make the "Tier 1" BCs combat ships as you've outlined (though drop the active tank bonus for Gallente) and make the "Tier 2" BCs "Command Ships Lite"
I'd assume the lite/entry command ships would get a good buffer bonus (7.5% bonus to resists vs 5%), no damage bonus, and either a bonus to a gang link or the ability to run 3 without a bonus. (or something else, you're the designers, not me)
TL;DR: It seems non-tiericidish to make all BCs direct combat focused when they have a history with Gang Links. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
825
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:52:00 -
[379] - Quote
RIP hurricane, you've been downgraded to the absolute worst bc by far, from being the best or second best just a few months ago
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IainG10
Exiled Dominion Li3 Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:54:00 -
[380] - Quote
I don't understand the removal of the utility high slot if the WL bonus is kept; fits already have to be severely modified to fit them. If the intention is to use BCs as on-grid boosters, why not keep the utility high, and change the role bonus to reduce the PG (and maybe cap) needs of WLs.
If BCs are meant to be used in roams with smaller ships, they need to be sped up for the most part, not slowed down; however, if they are becoming more fleet focused, then the speed changes are not too damning.
Just a small point on the drake:
I sort of understand the mass change - the drake can fly sustained mwd, though this severely gimps the tank and dps; better would be to keep it's current speed (and with other BCs) but change the cap so sustained prop mods are effectively unfittable. However, the ship is a total pig to fit as it is; that high slot that people have pointed out is always empty, that's why. I have just short of perfect fitting skills, and still struggle without using meta mods or implants (disregarding the utility high). The fitting changes will just mean that newer toons will not be able to use bread-and-butter fleet fits; the drake is and will be a shield fleet ship, its tank determines that (but other ships roam better due to better dps, balancing it out). |
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Nolove Trader
Black Hole Cluster
0
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:56:00 -
[381] - Quote
The new Harbinger is absolutely horrible.
You are effectively losing 218.15 Powergrid and 31.25 CPU, as the first post refers to base stats, and Engineering and Electronics widen the gap. You lose slightly less than you gain by fititng a Heavy Beam Laser II (223.2 PG with AWU V) and quite a bit more than a Heavy Pulse Laser II needs (187.2 PG with AWU V). In both cases the Harb has a net loss of CPU. And considering that it is even now more or less impossible to fit a Harbinger with the largest medium weapons, the net loss of fitting ressources absolutely crushes this ship. |
Mund Richard
244
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Posted - 2013.01.09 15:58:00 -
[382] - Quote
Jin alPatar wrote:This doesn't really seem to fit with how the smaller ship tiericide went. If each race had 3 battlecruisers, why not give them 3 different roles? With these changes we'll have 2 combat BCs and a big gun attack BC. Seeing as BCs are intended to use gang links and form the platform for dedicated command ships, why not treat one of these like you did with logistic frigs & cruisers? Make the "Tier 1" BCs combat ships as you've outlined (though drop the active tank bonus for Gallente) and make the "Tier 2" BCs "Command Ships Lite" I'd assume the lite/entry command ships would get a good buffer bonus (7.5% bonus to resists vs 5%), no damage bonus, and either a bonus to a gang link or the ability to run 3 without a bonus. (or something else, you're the designers, not me) TL;DR: It seems non-tiericidish to make all BCs direct combat focused when they have a history with Gang Links. Essentially, they *are* different by the virtue of using different weapon systems. Now in the case of Ferox vs Naga, this may not seem like much of a blessing, but moving on.
If one of the ships for each race would become a dedicated booster ship, it would naturally suffer in the combat role, like T2s do today. Should it be the Brutix, or the Myrm? The secondary weapon systems (love them or hate them) would suffer, and CCP is already supposedly moving away from this with what they envision for the T2 BCs. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
939
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Posted - 2013.01.09 16:04:00 -
[383] - Quote
Can we quickly talk about active armor tank and drones?
The reason I bring this up is that Gallente as a whole are in a funny place due to recent NPC AI change and drones sucking in general. With each rebalance, the number of drone boats grows. Last patch added 3 (?) drone boats. Upcoming patch will add 1 more (Prophecy). And yet, no drone fixes have been mentioned. In fact, CCP completely avoids ANY topic with a word "drone" in it like it's got cooties. What's up? It's a little difficult to judge ship balance without knowing if anything will be done, and if so, what?
The reason I mention armor tank is that now it seems both Gallente BCs under review get the same active armor tank bonus. Which is fine, if active armor tank is getting reviewed as well. But if not, you're essentially crippling 2/3rds of Gallente BC lineup with this stuff for many/most in-game applications. Similar to drones, the topic gets studiously avoided by all CCP staff. Again, hard to judge what will happen to these hulls without knowing if any changes are planned, or what they may be.
Or is the approach going to be to change the ships first to rely on a mechanic that won't be fixed for a while yet? That seems very counter-intuitive, as ships like Myrmidon will suffer VERY badly for it - this hull has to deal with the drone issue AND the active armor tank imbalance.
Any thoughts? Besides "we'll look into it between now and the heat death of the universe", I mean. |
anids
modro Red Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.01.09 16:05:00 -
[384] - Quote
why nurf the BC's??? seriously they fun to fly :( just change bonus's and reskin cycloen/drake....drake 7 lanucher fit tight as it is give it +10 grid.......wtb less nurf on the cane :( hate u ccp |
ConranAntoni
Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front
56
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Posted - 2013.01.09 16:07:00 -
[385] - Quote
Oh also the new Prophecy is hilarious as it's current incarnation is, it does less DPS than a vexor but has a tank. So it still stays as a bait boat.
Congratulations, you made a heavier tanked Arbitrator without the EWAR essentially for four times the price. |
Mund Richard
244
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Posted - 2013.01.09 16:12:00 -
[386] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Can we quickly talk about active armor tank and drones? [...] Any thoughts? Besides "we'll look into it between now and the heat death of the universe", I mean. You just chased Fozzie away even from here.
Expected some nice DevPost on armor after the post Hans dropped on page one, still expecting it. Drones... Also still expecting it!
One thing I'm not quite sure about... Why are both missile users shield based, and both drone users armor based? Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Maria Blick
skeltari Corp
4
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Posted - 2013.01.09 16:14:00 -
[387] - Quote
Ferox needs a hybrid damage bonus like the moa. Medium rails have no use case where they outperform large rails on a naga.
The myrmidon needs to become a dedicated drone boat. Just give it back the full 125m3 bandwidth, and instead take away the ability to fit weapon hardpoints. |
Tragot Gomndor
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.01.09 16:17:00 -
[388] - Quote
Ferox: i dont think the two bonuses work together... shield resistance means more hitpoints, more useable for blaster brawls than railgun sniping... sniping dont need bonus tank... and the naga is allready the sniper, no need for two snipers...
Drake: that ship has the lowest damage bonus of them all, only working for 1 damage type... maybe change the +kinetic to +rof or even make it +kinetic to all missile types, including light missiles and rockets, turning drake to an anti-frigate platform like the (new) prophecy and myrmidon with small drones... maybe doing the same for the cyclone...
Myrmidon/Brutix: armor local rep is good for pve and thats all... fix local rep
that doenst belong here but:
EXEQUROR: that ship has more ehp when fitting a shield tank than an armor tank and thats just wrong (both fits cap stable)... ccp should consider to buff armor all together...
Goons + Test + CFC + HBC = SAME!!!!!!!11111112 |
Steve Bopp
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.01.09 16:18:00 -
[389] - Quote
Based on the changes that they are making I think they are trying to separate cruisers and battle cruisers more. It looks like battle cruisers are becoming more skill intensive to encourage specialization.
I was not expecting the Harbinger losing HP though... Maybe they'll rework active armor tanking though? It's a shame that to get close to cap stable in an Amarr PvE ship and get a good repair amount you need to pop for a deadspace Rep a lot of the time. I would LOVE a cap reduction in Active Armor Reps for amarr ships. |
Shasz
Angels of Anarchy AL3XAND3R.
25
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Posted - 2013.01.09 16:20:00 -
[390] - Quote
Comparing the Prophecy to the Myrmidon - other than bait tanking, why would I fly the Prophecy?
Same 5 un-bonused high slots (and the Prophecy has to split at least 1 weapon system to use the 5) Myrm gets superior bandwidth.
For DPS potential, the Myrm wins hands down.
The Poorphecy gets more drone flexibility (bigger bay), and better ability to fit an armor tank and drone damage mods (+1 low slot), but I don't see those as a good reason to choose it if I'm fitting a drone BC.
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