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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |

Guillaume Conquerant
2
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:33:00 -
[211] - Quote
Ok, my thoughts:
- Ferox
Battlecruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to all Shield Resistances 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
Justification: It will never be able to out-sniper the Naga so lets make this an 'in-your-face' brawler; Caldari needs at least one
- Drake
Battlecruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to all Shield Resistances 5% bonus to all missile damage --or-- 5% bonus to all Shield Resistances 5% bonus to all missile rof
Justification: As kings of the missle boats, Caldari should not be limited to just kin dmg. The multiple damage profiles are a redeeming quality of missiles in pvp. Let's not hamper that.
- Brutix
Battlecruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking
Justification: Brutix, Brute, brawler ... skull f*cker. Not sure we need two ships with active tank bonuses.
- Cyclone:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses: --NO CHANGE-- Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+1), 7 Launchers
Justification: Please, enough of the schizo ... Minnie culture is about decisiveness, this split weapons business does NOT suit them (or my implants or my low slot layout)
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Klown Walk
New Eden Renegades Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
194
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:35:00 -
[212] - Quote
And still no info about fixing active tanking. |

Mund Richard
241
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:37:00 -
[213] - Quote
zerquse wrote: this would give the myrm the ability to sit at range with its drones and snipe while having a decent burst tank so its no op. Still holding that unless you want all active tank ship bonuses to be like it, don't go there. It's not just about a Myrm sitting at range or not, being OP or not. I'm on about integrity, and fixing armor tanking where it is broken, and not just with "overbuffed" hull bonuses.
zerquse wrote: while the brutix would inherit an ability to fit a 1600mm plate and be able to fly as if there were only an 800mm beter agility speed etc so it can pounce on its target as intended. And the ones not fitting a plate due to going full-active or shield are borked.
zerquse wrote: it would give u an active or buffer option on medium blasters that are both very viable. Lost me here. Still talking about the plate? Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |

Jean Leaner
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
69
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:40:00 -
[214] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:4LeafClover wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Right now Gallente is the ONLY race that has mulutple ships with split weapon systems.
You're kidding right? List some.
Minmatar - Typhoon, Cyclone, Naglfar,
You're on the CSM and you don't even know which ships have split weapons systems? |

Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
467
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:41:00 -
[215] - Quote
So who here plans on flying a drake ever again btw? |

Mund Richard
241
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:45:00 -
[216] - Quote
Jean Leaner wrote: Minmatar - Typhoon, Cyclone, Naglfar, You're on the CSM and you don't even know which ships have split weapons systems? CCP Fozzie wrote:Dear Capsuleers. Two utility highslots is not the same as split weapons. All the best. -Love Fozzie Phoon will be reworked into torp boat supposedly. Cyclone "only" has two utility highs, with many of us here calling for +1 launcher. That the Naglfar suxx with two unbonused and two double bonused, is meh.  Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |

David Zahavi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:48:00 -
[217] - Quote
Kogh Ayon wrote:
Harbinger
Don't get the logic to nerf this ship, isn't it **** enough already that people even use omen rather than harbinger?
Yup, especially after the Omen buff. But even before. |

Carol Krabit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:55:00 -
[218] - Quote
I spy a surprising number of odd or defunct bonuses still being there. I thought these were the primary targets for change? Very few people are going to really enjoy the snipe bonus on the Ferox, and the Brutix rep bonus is only going to be useful in novelty solo fits like the triple rep Myrmidon today. Myrmidon has enough versatility because of its med slots and auxiliary weapon system that it is hard to complain, but the Brutix doesn't enjoy that same luxury.
Also it's funny to read spoiled minmatar players complaining as if their ships fitting has been butchered. The changes recently has only put them in line with other races. It used to be that you barely had to care about grid or CPU when fitting a cane, and that was ridiculous. Both Cyclone and Hurricane are going to stay excellent, Cyclone might even get a reputation as the new Drake of PvE because of the damage projection, drones and bonus.
Overall I think the more fundamental role changes like the Prophecy and Cyclone ones are very interesting, but I had expected much more of it. I also think this will be very successful in diversifying the killboards, although eventual fotms are inevitable as always. Next station for the BC train is the removal of off-grid boosting and the resulting demand for cheaper links in small inexpensive fleets. Let's hope that happens soonish. |

Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
52
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:58:00 -
[219] - Quote
zerquse wrote:myrm: 7.5% bonus to armor repair rate and amount per level 10% bonus to drone damage/hit points/and tracking per level
brutix: 5% bonus to medium hybrid damage per level 10% reduction to mass penalty to armor plates per level
this is what gallente should be I think would be a mistake. If you want ultra-high-dps-for-the-hull-and-speed, use a Thorax. Battlecruisers should either 1) have a +tank/+dps bonus or 2) 2 +dps bonuses.
An alternative to +damage resist bonuses (common for Amarr) maybe could be +% armor HP (like the Proteus sub), making each plate (maybe even an 800mm!) more effective. By optimizing a Brutix to use 800mm (buffed) and Neutrons, you could achieve high dps and high survivability with lower mass for better agility and speed.
Personally, shoehorning Gallente into active tanking roles without a similar ASB module for armor is just going to mean that the active bonuses will continue to be wasted.
Perhaps the three BCs should be set aside into 3 distinct hull designs: 1) Very high dps (current and future Tier 3 BCs), 2) Active tanking bonus one (Cyclone/Myrm/Ferox/Harbinger) and 3) Passive tanking one (fleet) (Drake/Brutix/Hurricane/Prophecy). That way, each category has a good mix of drone damage/gun damage/armor/shield in each.
I don't particularly think all the BCs should be so homogenized, but I do feel a more radical thinking plan is in order, since more of the status quo is obviously not being well received by the general player base (well, at least the forum warriors). |

Albert Spear
meadhan oidhche cinneach Miners' Militia
11
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:02:00 -
[220] - Quote
I took the time to run some math on the Harbi.
If the goal is to get newer players to move of the ladder to Battlecruisers while still training medium turrets and T2 modules, the Harbi takes a big hit.
For players who are 5'ed out - the Harbi gets a good buff, but most players who are 5'ed out will probably chose to fly better ships.
I suspect that the Harbi will be end up getting little use. Fitting a Harbi with L2 and L3 skills will be tough with the reduction in CPU.
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1202
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:03:00 -
[221] - Quote
B'reanna wrote: so after running the math on the harb assuming lvl 5 skills between dropping the 1 turret and the 5% increase in dmg bonus the net change is a 7% buff in dps along with a bit better fitting in return for increase in mass and align time. at anything less than lvl 5 skills its a net nerf in dps. in addition to this the biggest problem with the harb as always been getting in range to do dps which with the proposed changes would be even harder to do. so for a balance that's supposed to help level the playing field for newer players seems to me in the harbs case be a net nerf to an already lackluster ship.
CCP Fozzie please read this part right here, right here the whole thing.
I would bold the improtant bits but its all important.
Right now as is the Harby is in that middle group. Not quite as useless as the Ferox maybe, but nowhere near as good as the cane or drake. You've effectively dropped the hammer on it with those changes for anybody but a bitter vet.
The gun change is kinda nice for the fitting options you're opening but you've neutered it in other ways to make it virtually unusable for anybody without maxed skills when compared to the other BC options.
EDIT: And even then its pretty sub par when you look at the comparative DPS/Tank potentials of any other BC. |

Skotykus
Griffin Capsuleers Ad-Astra
0
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:14:00 -
[222] - Quote
Why not just remove the Drake, already? You seem to be whittling away at it each stupid patch. How can you think it's still OP with the missile changes?
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
52
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:15:00 -
[223] - Quote
Jean Leaner wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:4LeafClover wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Right now Gallente is the ONLY race that has mulutple ships with split weapon systems.
You're kidding right? List some. Minmatar - Typhoon, Cyclone, Naglfar, You're on the CSM and you don't even know which ships have split weapons systems? You should perhaps spend a bit more time reading about upcoming changes. If you did, you'd already know that Typhoon is slated to become a dedicated missile boat just like the Cyclone is. And we don't really know about what'll come of the Naglfar yet, but its a capital ship, and those are in a special class anyway, with their Siege modules...
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Mund Richard
241
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:19:00 -
[224] - Quote
Or looking at the ships another way, will be a screwed view due to not taking the weapon systems themselves into account.
Extradamage, Capacitor, 6 bonused + non-hardpoint high. Passivetank, SecondaryDamage, +4 unbonused high "+1 more" unbonused. Damage, PassiveTank, 7 "bonused" highs. SecondaryRange, PassiveTank, 7 "bonused" highs. Damage, Activetank, 7 bonused highs. SecondaryDamage, AcitveTank, + 6 hardpoint highs. PrimaryDamage, PrimaryDamage, 6 double-bonused highs +hardpoint high. SecondaryDamage, ActiveTank, 5 bonused highs, +2 hardpoint highs.
Racial Primary damage system ships summary: Damage: 6 double bonused +off-hardpoint> 6 extra bonused > 7 bonused > 7 limited bonused. Secondary: PassiveTank > ActiveTank > Cap Usage (why keping those still), 4th ship included a line above.
Racial Secondary weapon-type Ships: Secondary: PassiveTank = PassiveTank > ActiveShield > ActiveArmor. 4 tank-bonused ships Damage: 5*Secondary+2hardpoint > Secondary+6hardpoints > 7*RangeBonused > Secondary+4/1hardpoints
Primary lineup: Two tank-bonused, one Cap, one Double damage. If the secondary-line is the tankier, why not make all of these non-tanked? Would justify the Drake getting a proper damage bonus, always found "missiles = selectable damage, Caldari = Kinetic" silly. And the Harbringer with it's cap bonus... Still the most lackluster bonus, even with me hating active armor tanking ones.
Second lineup: Tanky ones, hopefully there's a trick in the bag for armor rep. Balance between drones and hardpoint weapons too much hassle to find, so leaving these somewhat alone.  One ship having bonused hardpoints and yet two unbonused is unusual after tiericide (Cyclone, even the Rupture lost the second). And the Ferox, medium railguns with range bonus but nothing else... the only thing it offers over a Naga is staying power, in return for 1 size smaller, 1 less turret, with no damage bonus (on the same size it would be 10 against 7 turret's dps, by the virtue of using larger ones Naga is already more-or-less where the Ferox gets with the bonus). Worth it? Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |

fukier
RISE of LEGION
666
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 03:20:00 -
[225] - Quote
Skotykus wrote:Why not just remove the Drake, already? You seem to be whittling away at it each stupid patch. How can you think it's still OP with the missile changes?
because they are waiting to see how bad it gets before they make TC/TE affect missiles...
thats why... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |

Misha M'Liena
Rui Freelance Mining
2071
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 03:26:00 -
[226] - Quote
Your nerfing the harby when it needed a buffing?  Why in gods name?
One less weapon, less powergrid less cpu...?? Are you outa your freaking mind Fozzie???
I want whatever your drinking.
Misha. Not as innocent as she appears.Gäó -á |

Mund Richard
241
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:29:00 -
[227] - Quote
Misha M'Liena wrote:Your nerfing the harby when it needed a buffing?   Why in gods name? One less weapon, less powergrid less cpu...?? Are you outa your freaking mind Fozzie??? I want whatever your drinking. Misha. I wonder if sooner or later everyone frequenting this thread will finish their posts with: "And the Harbringer getting +10% damage bonus is given a damage buff even with loosing a turret." Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |

Styledatol
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
1
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:30:00 -
[228] - Quote
CCP logic: "We've fixed the cruisers by making them almost as good as battlecruisers. Now, lets fix battlecruisers by making the good ones just as bad as the rarely used ones." |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1913

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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:31:00 -
[229] - Quote
Removed a ranting post.
I would like to remind people that while negative feedback is helpful, please do it in a constructive manner. Ranting about it while not help solve anything, but telling us why you don't like it and ways to fix it is very helpful. Thank you. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Captain She'ep
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
0
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:33:00 -
[230] - Quote
Will you guys leave my hurricane the hell alone? Seriously. Back the **** off, doods! |

Cethion
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
0
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:37:00 -
[231] - Quote
I have a lot of problems with these proposed changes, lets roll through each ship one by one.
Prophecy: Continuing this push to make drones the secondary weapon system of the Amarr just doesn't make much sense. Drone boats don't see much use in fleet actions (when was the last time the myrm had a starring role in a fleet op aside from bait?), and even solo, a drone bandwidth of 75 is insufficient. If you want this ship to see increased use, and are determined to make it a non-laser boat, give it missiles. An armor tanked BC with missile options would be a hell of a lot more useful.
Harbinger: While the ship gets a small damage boost from the higher damage bonus, and having fewer guns means less danger to capacitor, but the ship already had significant fitting problems, and while this reduction is supposed to be commiserate with the loss of a turret fitting, a smaller reduction would give the ship a little more heart. Then comes the agility nerf. This ship is already (theoretically) supposed to be an armor tank, and starting with the maneuverability of a pig is not helpful. This ship is already not all that popular, and these changes won't help things, at least remove the agility nerf to keep it somewhat competitive.
Ferox: I don't fly these ships, so I don't have a lot to say about this one, others have mentioned wanting a damage bonus instead of an optimal range, but I am glad to see some other buffs for it.
Drake: This ship is almost unchanged. More of a pig with maneuverability, but the much-vaunted tank is essentially the same. Weren't there supposed to be some nerfs coming to get this ship in line with the now-nerfed Cane?
Brutix: I like the slot changes, fitting boosts, and agility increase, but the bonuses are still odd. Both the Gallante combat BCes have bonuses to active armor tanking, which is basically useless outside of very small-scale fights. You want to see this ship used some more? Give it a different second bonus, if you want to support the damage angle, a falloff or tracking bonus is a great idea, if you want something more ganky, maybe an agility boost. Either way, this needs a change.
Myrmidon: Turrets were never this ship's strong point, and the additional bandwidth and size are amazingly helpful to this ship. Given the focus of the ship, losing some armor while gaining hull is a bit of an odd choice, but overall, it fills much the same roll as it used to, even if an active tank is harder to support with a smaller powergrid.
Cyclone: While another missile launcher hardpoint would be great, having two utility highs isn't necessarily a bad thing, and the across the board boosts get it a lot more in line. I like most of that.
Hurricane: This ship already got hit pretty hard with the nerf bat, hurting it more seems unnecessary. Others have been more vehement than I in this regard, so I'll leave it at that. |

Aliventi
Southern Cross Trilogy Flying Dangerous
21
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:39:00 -
[232] - Quote
Why are removing all the extra high slots that are supposed to be used for the links? Like seriously? If anything you should leave those in place and give most of the BCs extra PG fitting ability so we can actually use the 99% CPU reduction bonus for links. They already don't get the command ship link effectiveness bonus. If you go through with this you may as well take the 99% CPU reduction bonus away. Hardly anyone uses it now and even fewer will after these changes go through.
Also, can we get rid of this pointless Caldari Kenetic Bonus? It seems ridiculous that there are 4 flavors of missiles and Caldari are stuck using the worst of them all. "But it's Caldari's racial damage!" Yeah. Then why is explosive Minmatar's but they don't get an "Explosive damage bonus"? At least Amarr can only do EM/TRM and Gallente can only do THRM/KIN. And you already got rid of the Kinetic bonus on the Caracal and the condor. Finish the job.
And why would I use a sniper Ferox when the Naga does it better? If you get caught sniping that resist bonus isn't going to help you. At least the Naga has the Large Rails range and is fast and agile enough to run away. |

Marcus Antovar
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 03:45:00 -
[233] - Quote
What the **** is this ****? The hurricane is getting hit more? Man, that ship is going from awesome to ****!
And why do both the Gal BCes have active rep bonuses? Why? The brutix is bullshit right now, even with these changes.
Why is the Prophecy a droneboat? **** that noise! |

Kratisto
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 03:45:00 -
[234] - Quote
The Ferox suffers from a capacitor burden, which requires a cap booster in the mids for pvp. This and a prop mod means it has only 3 shield slots for tanking- not exactly conducive for a ship with shield resistance bonuses. The turret bonus is good, a cool +50 dps, to 350 dps or so with 200's, the guns required for fitting... but compare that to a Hurricane's 480 with shortrange ammo, with a similar range despite no range bonus (25+16 ferox, 15+28 on cane)...
The cane has 60k ehp with full skills, the ferox 72k, both when shield-tanked. This hardly makes any sense.
Easy solution: Give the ferox the extra midslot instead of low, sufficient powergrid so it can fit the extra gun without needing a pds, giving it sufficiently more tank to justify its flight. Adding the damage buff would make it too good, and here there is a tradeoff: DPS and alpha, vs tanky/fast rof, in the realm of midrange snipers.
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Mund Richard
241
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:48:00 -
[235] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:Why are removing all the extra high slots that are supposed to be used for the links? Like seriously? If anything you should leave those in place and give most of the BCs extra PG fitting ability so we can actually use the 99% CPU reduction bonus for links. They already don't get the command ship link effectiveness bonus. If you go through with this you may as well take the 99% CPU reduction bonus away. Hardly anyone uses it now and even fewer will after these changes go through. Riiight! As it is now, only the Harbringer has a spare high with no hardpoint, making it "ideal" (before fitting issues) for a link. Both Minmatar and the Prophecy can use a utility High for it. The Myrm has a choice of not using one of the 5 turrets, which may be magstabbed/gyroed for a lesser bonus. The Brutix and the Caldari ships make a choice between dropping a bonused hardpoint, or the link.
Anyone seeing a racial pattern here?
PS:
Mund Richard wrote:"And the Harbringer getting +10% damage bonus is a damage buff even with loosing a turret." The rest of what it got debatable. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |

Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
393
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Posted - 2013.01.09 03:52:00 -
[236] - Quote
was really hoping the Harb would become viable with the changes and I'm sad to see that it won't :(
The tiny dps buff doesn't come close to evening out how very slow it is How the **** do you remove a signature? |

Roosevelt Coltrane
Rupakaya
9
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Posted - 2013.01.09 04:10:00 -
[237] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:
There's something fundamentally wrong that I need to use a triple repping, dual cap injected Myrm to be able to keep up with a single XL-ASB Cyclone.
That is it in the shell of a nut.
You have been great about listening to feedback, so I will add my voice to the chorus saying please don't give the Brutix an active tank bonus.
If you keep the bonus on the Myrm, then DO give it a 10% bonus like the Incursus.
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NetheranE
The Cariest Of Bears
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 04:11:00 -
[238] - Quote
Prophecy changes are excellent, as are the Harb and Myrm.
To the Ferox, the addition of another gun is a great help, except for the difference in cap usage is rather exceptional for an already cap-close boat. However, is is a trait of the Caldari line, so I can see why it was maintained.
Brutix, I dont see why the rep bonus remains. I can see it being an overall ok choice, however I think a tracking bonus like the thorax may find it's place safer. I think something needs to be considered in that bonus slot, as otherwise the Myrm and Brutix will constantly find themselves left behind for any amount of fleet work. ^Personally I have less of an issue with this as the Myrm and Brutix are still extremely poignant choices for small gangs, and leaving their bonuses as listed in the OP would continue to enable them this edge.
Drake and Cane, these changes effectively bring them in-line with the other BCs, which I think is an excellent choice. For too long the drake and cane have left all other BCs far behind in the dust, and pushing them back down to an even keel is an excellent balance choice.
As to those whining about the Harb changes... This is a stepping stone between the Omen/Maller and 'Geddon/Abaddon. Are these ships known for their agility? No, and it should remain so across the linear progression line of the Amarrian "Tank & Gank" philosophy. Honestly, who needs agility when you have Scorch?
Learn to quit whining about wanting to use a ship outside of its general conceptualization. These ships have their roles, and the changes ensure that they excel in these roles exceptionally.
ALL GLORY TO THE AUG & BINGER DOCTRINE, ALL GLORY! |

Capqu
Love Squad
66
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 04:13:00 -
[239] - Quote
hi fozzie,
i think there is an innate problem with the armor rep bonuses in that that resist bonuses are just as effective for active tanking, while also allowing you to buffer / passive if you want (and even providing some buffer if you decide to active)
i think this puts too much disparity between the active bonused and the resist bonused ships, which i imagine are intended to be similar power level just geared towards active or passive
perhaps look at tweaking the potency of the active bonus, or reworking it all together? http://pizza.eve-kill.net |

CaptCommando
Irrationality ILLC C0NVICTED
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 04:15:00 -
[240] - Quote
correct me if im wrong but the drake is now even more useless as it is now goin be all tank no bite. and the myrm is losing a gun and high as wells as a reduction on its tank shields armor and hull but still keeping a 7.5% armor repping bonus. and its loosing PWGRD. so with its tank and gun dps output lose its goin be relying on its drones to dump on someones day so if u dont have good drones skills u might be ******. and putting a 1600mm plate on to help the reppers is now goin to be a necessity. shoulda just left the highslot and taken the gun slot or increase the repping bonus. |
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