Titan bridging is fine, the issue if anything is how cheap the fuel to do it is.

Blame ice miners for making too much ice.

Balance should never be based on cost.

See Tiers and Titans for that reason.

I am not saying get rid of force projecttion at all... 50 bs of mass is pretty large... I am saying if you want to jump 300 bs you need 6 titans to do so...

Which means 6 titans sitting outside a pos is an tempting target to counter hotdrop...

I am not saying get rid of force projecttion at all... 50 bs of mass is pretty large... I am saying if you want to jump 300 bs you need 6 titans to do so...

Which means 6 titans sitting outside a pos is an tempting target to counter hotdrop...

They dont sit outside a POS.

I am not saying get rid of force projecttion at all... 50 bs of mass is pretty large... I am saying if you want to jump 300 bs you need 6 titans to do so...

Which means 6 titans sitting outside a pos is an tempting target to counter hotdrop...

Actually what you're asking for is to make it harder to conquer a sytem, when people keep crying that it's already to easy to defend with current sov mechanics.

You're also saying that the "proliferation" is a problem, and then saying that you should need to build MORE titans. WTF?

PS: Your alliance also holds zero sov apparently. Which means you're asking for nerfs to things that your alliance probably has no real use for.

Or is that the problem? You guys can't get sov, and think that this kind of nerf will make it easier for you?

This makes a lot of sense. The bringe in question is essentially without limits and it makes sense that this technology would have some-kind of limit like that as you need power to transmit such mass and being able to transport unlimited mass means unlimited power. There are not many items like this in eve that DONT have limits. Hell, even NPC stargates have trouble after enough ships passing through it at one time.

I find it hard to argue with this logic overall from a logic/tactical/immersion/roleplay standpoint and it could make space "smaller"

Why would he know this?

His alliance doesn't have any sov in null to park a titan safely anyways. What a shocker.

e: capital proliferation? .

Everyone always assumes there's a problem. There isn't. Force projection is fine as is and you didn't suggest anything that would change it. You've basically suggested a bunch of ways to make slight headaches for the logistics guys and not much beyond that. The logistics guys don't need anymore :ccp: bullshit to deal with, trust me.


e: capital proliferation? wut. Do you mean supercap proliferation? Welcome to a year ago. CCP listened and nerfed the bejeesus out of them. Next you're gonna start talking about jump bridge nerfs and blue list limits.

I'd agree with the point that the suggestion wouldn't change much but disagree on the existence of the problem.

Here's what I suggest:
-Make POS JBs work for alliance only
-Require sov in the location the titan creates a JB from
-Allow titan JBs to be two way

This way an alliance can run around within their own space all they want but prevents them from very easily moving several regions over without having to travel the gate system themselves..... unless they want to use nothing but caps. This way the combat for a particular alliance will stay roughly around defending their own borders as well as pushing out on the edges.

Conflicts should be more localized and be less of ordering in half a dozen blue fleets from around the universe to roflstomp one group. When you attack or get attacked only the neighboring local groups will be helping or against you.

The two way JB should allow for the moving to your borders with a force and then jumping back.

Though I guess if they really wanted to they jump through a series of titans that are all blue to each other and are chilling within their own sov...

any other ideas?

Wait you can activate a titan bridge inside a pos? Its been years since I used one so I figured the titan had to be outside the pos shield for it to work... If this is the case then titan bridging needs to be moved outside the pos also.

The nose of the titan can be barely poking out and that allows the titan to make a bridge and everyone inside the pos use the titan to jump, while the titan cannot be shot.

If I recall every ship that jumps consumes fuel based on the mass of the ship. So there is a limit based on fuel availability.

This is true but the pos can hold enough stront to transport a fleet.

This is not a good enough limiting attribute...

Having a hard Mass attribute on top of that is a better option.

....stront? You've got to be kidding.

Listen I realize you thought you knew what you were talking about, but you should really have some experience before you start threads asking for nerfs. I'm honestly tired of hearing about "force projection" from people who live in hi-sec just because they want to be in on the theoretical discussion. JB's have been nerfed more times than I'd like to count so the next step is removing them altogether, that's about how useful they're becoming. It's one of the slim few advantages of having sov.

....stront? You've got to be kidding.

Listen I realize you thought you knew what you were talking about, but you should really have some experience before you start threads asking for nerfs. I'm honestly tired of hearing about "force projection" from people who live in hi-sec just because they want to be in on the theoretical discussion. JB's have been nerfed more times than I'd like to count so the next step is removing them altogether, that's about how useful they're becoming. It's one of the slim few advantages of having sov.

i did not state once i was talking about JB i only said titan bridging....

yeah stront or atleast that is what evelopedia suggests it uses

What does my alliance affiliation have anything to do with my post. This is my personal opinion not one of my corp or alliance.. I dont care about sov... I have been in sov holding alliance before so whats your point? Or is it you are fixated on logical fallacy...

"Jump Portal Generators use the same isotopes as your ships jump drive to jump other ships through the portal."

The Jump Portal Generator requires a base amount of 500 strontium clathrates (which is reduced by the jump portal generation skill) to be activated, but that's independent of the fuel used by the actual ships using the portal, which depends on the specific isotope used by that racial jump drive variant, e.g. an Avatar uses helium isotopes, an Erebus uses oxygen isotopes, etc.

Tell us, how many titans does GSF or the CFC have?
How about test?
AAA?
Solar?

i did not state once i was talking about JB i only said titan bridging....

yeah stront or atleast that is what evelopedia suggests it uses

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Jump_Portal_Generator_I

as i remember when i used to do fleets in null we would warp to the pos and then right click on the titan and click on the jump button.

as for me i have lived most of my eve life either in null or low sec... hardly go to high sec so that is a wrong asumption on me... I just happen to be more of a solo guy then group as when i play eve i cant allways get on comms which limits me being in fleets....

also post with your main.

rant.

You're just incentivizing "blobbing" because now you need to have at least 4-5 titans active, a ton of entrance cynos, and supercap hegemony to protect your titan and do a fleet. Or you can spend hours jumping through gates, losing 5-10 people each time you jump from desyncs and lag, only to get hotdropped by someone who does have these things. That doesn't sound fun.

Limiting cyno mass on jumps doesn't really solve anything, you can just daisy chain cynos in with the capitals you are dropping. And again, only those who have a distinct advantage would be using cynos. A few extra immobile carriers don't matter if you have 40 SCs and 40 Titans.

There is no issue with force projection, nullsec is already "small" because there are very few entities participating. You shouldn't have to jump halfway across the map for a good fight, there should already be one on your doorstep. Force projection nerfs just make it more difficult for people to get fights, probably the biggest reason why people still live in nullsec.

LOL. Oh coad memories. I don't post with my main to avoid ad-hominem attacks that detract from the discussion. Yes, jump portals use stront as well as isotopes, I thought you were talking about jb's which use liquid ozone. My point stands though, as someone who only does solo stuff, how can you realistically complain about force projection, or know the implications of limiting it? It's completely reasonable for owners of territory to have an inherent advantage over interlopers. Jump bridges haven't been used strategically pretty much since the Eye of Terror anyway. They're literally convenience items that make living in null slightly less annoying.

You guys keep using the word "proliferation" as if you have any idea how many there actually are, and how often they're used.

Wait you can activate a titan bridge inside a pos? Its been years since I used one so I figured the titan had to be outside the pos shield for it to work... If this is the case then titan bridging needs to be moved outside the pos also.

i never said you should not be able to blob... i did say that it should require more effort to dump 500 plus people in a system if you dont want to use the stargates.

Maybe they are talking about what you see at the end of the "revelations II" trailer when it says "we are the enemies of the gods". Some of us liked the vision that was eve back then, and that perspective is no more right or wrong then yours. So maybe get a tissue and wipe your widdle nose, because CCP will remain on your side of this argument. Your titans will be ok (pats on the back)


And if you are still having trouble understanding what "Proliferation" means, here is a handy dandy little drawing I made that will explain it to you.

This right here is why you should just stop. Don't try to fix what you don't understand

no i disagree...
this thread has enlighted me about some flaws i forgot about... in 6 plus years of playing eve its rather easy to forget something like that...

What the hell does tha thave to do with what you quoted?

even bigger rant.

i think this guy is mad about something... i just cant put my finger on it...

He keeps on attacking me personally due to my affiliations... but how does the saying go... even from the mouths of babes?

and you do know there is more then just using a titan to get into a system.. you can you know... use stargates

It explains the idea of "proliferation" with a nifty little picture, and then compares it to an old (and much loved) EVE trailer for comparison. Some people have a strong preference for one massive capital ship existing at the head of a vastly more numerous fleet. When capitals become the battleship and titans-supers become the capitals... well... I guess we need a new "big" ship now don't we?


That is all.

Yeah, he's using logic, he MUST be raving mad!

no i disagree...
this thread has enlighted me about some flaws i forgot about... in 6 plus years of playing eve its rather easy to forget something like that...

Did people stop doing that while I was on my break from EVE?

Love how you casually drop how long you've been playing as if that makes your ignorance any more excusable.

I miss the 80's, things were simpler then.

Why can't things always stay the same?


People did things.
That's your horrible arguement.

While I agree with the concept of removing Titan bridges from inside POS shields that is still a major mechanic. If You are not experienced enough or have proper up to date knowledge of the field you are trying to change then you have no business doing it. There is a simple reason why. Without current and accurate info you are unable to foresee what the future effects of the change may have, thus you cannot attempt to gauge if it is for better or worse. You are basicly taking shots in the dark and wishing for a good outcome.

So there has never been huge Nyx/titan hot drops by BOB, Russians and pandemic legion. Red alliance never teamed up with PL and steamrolled everything in sight with a fleet consisting of a large portion of all supers in game (not made from botting ofc). I must have dreamed all of this.

Are you new here?

this is a problem? thats what the forums are for... one comes up with an idea and posts it...

then people respond with reasons why its good or reasons why its bad...

if everyone knew everything about everything what would be the point in talking?

Oh wait so it did happen... now I will argue that it does not matter that it did

Didn't you guys know, only Goons can talk about Titans, since they and their pets have the moastest.

If your alliance don't have one, you don't have a right to talk about how they are used.

show us on the sov map doll where the big bad goon touched you...

Nobody said anything of the sort.
If you actually have any logical points to bring to the table, I suggest you do so.

I never said that it mattered, nor did I state what side of this debate I fell upon. All I did was point out that some people prefer it one way where as the others prefer it another and then I included a picture for the more simple minded. No one side of this argument is exclusively better than the other one, and that includes your own. I know that may be difficult for you to grasp.



So yea it did happen.
Like I said.
Why were you suggesting that it is not something that is a "feature" of EVE Online? Self serving much?

They most certainly have. Directly and indirectly.

Force projection has been a problem in this game for years and is directly related to how quickly a large force can cross the map.
CCP has ignored this since the most reasonable fixes would upset a significant portion of their most vocal players.

Some players don't want to lose the advantage they have, so they will do anything to deflect, disprove, or dilute any reasonable solution.

They most certainly have. Directly and indirectly.

Force projection has been a problem in this game for years and is directly related to how quickly a large force can cross the map.
CCP has ignored this since the most reasonable fixes would upset a significant portion of their most vocal players.

Some players don't want to lose the advantage they have, so they will do anything to deflect, disprove, or dilute any reasonable solution.

Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!

Natsett Amuinn, to much back pedaling for me. I guess this is your technique after you are caught applying half ass'd debate tactics in a discussion . You are not the first and you are surely not the last.


I am just here to let you know that you are transparent to some of us. I hope I made your day spectacular

I'd like to hear what you consider a "reasonable fix".

Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!

You don't understand!

The more tedious it is, the more people that will come to null, obviously.

Now I'm backpedalling!!! lol, that's awesome.

Or is the obvious sarcasm in my last post not obvious to you? Whit is supposed to take intelligence, but I always considered saracsm the lowest form of whit and not requiring that much intelligence. Maybe I was wrong.

ok you guys really dont like the mass limit on cynos (well atleast the cfc peeps dont)

i have yet to read non cfc people complain about the idea (but the one guy posting with his alt sounds like he could be former bob)

but what about a spool up time for jump drives? (that way you cant et or cap recharge your way across the universe)

or do you think you should get from one side of teh universe to the other in under 30 min... ( i myself with my alts can get from stain to syndicate really fast in my thanny its just a matter of how fast i can cap up)

or titans having to be outside of a pos for the bridge to work?

those two ideas must seem reasonable...

the reason why i said mass limts for cyno's is to try to make some sort of restrictions for larger pvp... like you see in WH space... but for capital projection and fleet projection...

if it just ends up being a hassle thats cool... its just a suggestion. ( i know with Tidi and stuff like that that CCP markets Blobs and tahts cool with me)

I'm just looking for ways to spice things up...you know?

but like someone said earlier in the thread they had thier cyno char pop before everyone could jump which lead to them loosing the fight...

this sounds like a good thing and if there had to be multiple cynoes it would make it more interesting. (as from an outside perspective it should take mass amount of coordination to move massive fleets around... though some would argue this already takes place and its more then a resonable argument)

No, but there will be a lot more room for others to come out.

Null is intended for large scale player activity, and tools need to facilitate that, including the ability to move around large numbers quickly. No one wants to spend hours on end moving across the mob to engage in war, and CCP wants peopel to engae in large scale fights in null.

hmm so you are saying if it was harder to do force projection you would not rest your allies but would actually go 40-80 jumps just to find a fight?

and you guys call high sec players risk adverse?

Room to come out and do what? Get hotdropped by 100 Sc's or blued which is it?

And nothing says you can't do this in a larger playing environment. You will just have to choose your target more carefully, and make sure you leave forces at home to protect your assests at home.

Have you come to understand the meaning of "proliferation" yet or do I need to draw if for you in crayon?
Trust me it can be arranged.

Yeah, cause we definitely don't do this now.

No argument there. But if it took 10 times longer to go anywhere, it would take ten times longer to get back. You would be less likely to go that far in the first place.

Less likely, not say you still wouldn't.

You would, or should, chose your targets more carefully.

EVE novels, lol. "And then John got podded, THE END."

You would be less likely to go that far in the first place.

No argument there. But if it took 10 times longer to go anywhere, it would take ten times longer to get back. You would be less likely to go that far in the first place.

Less likely, not say you still wouldn't.

You would, or should, choose your targets more carefully.

Natsett Amuinn, i am not trying to insult you. You honestly did not seem to understand the notion when it was presented to you. Now I gather you do understand.



So are you saying that there is proliferation of supers and titans now? Or are you still claiming that there is no such thing.

You guys keep ignoring the part where CCP WANTS US TO.

posting in a 2011 thread

I think you may be assuming too much.

They want fights, but I think it has come to the point over that last several years where Power Projection is actually stifling what null sec could be, and is actually preventing fights in the long run.

I know it is hard for you to see this. But many have felt the same, for many years now.

Same old argument and counter argument.

I think you may be assuming too much.

They want fights, but I think it has come to the point over that last several years where Power Projection is actually stifling what null sec could be, and is actually preventing fights in the long run.

I know it is hard for you to see this. But many have felt the same, for many years now.

Same old argument and counter argument.

....

I thought there was a spool up time for certian jump drives?

Titans outside a PoS sounds fine.


I don't think you made a particular conection though. It's not that we don't like the idea of improving things, we don't like the idea of nerfing things that facility large scale combat (most of us at least), because that's something unique to EVE.

Making it harder to move, is not better. It's tedious. Tedium doesn't improve things.

Null is intended for large scale player activity, and tools need to facilitate that, including the ability to move around large numbers quickly. No one wants to spend hours on end moving across the mob to engage in war, and CCP wants peopel to engae in large scale fights in null.

What the ****!


Here it is guys.
He's telling us mechanics designed specifically for us to do something, aren't intended for us to be used to do it.

WTF would they allow us to jump across space with a cyno and a titan if it isn't intended!!!

i agree in large scale fights i just dont see any reason why it has to be on the oppisite side of the universe...

You guys choose to mkae gigantic coalitions which then requrie youto travel emse distance just to find a fight...i think its the rist adverse nature of eve players that made this.

ok you guys really dont like the mass limit on cynos (well atleast the cfc peeps dont)

i have yet to read non cfc people complain about the idea (but the one guy posting with his alt sounds like he could be former bob)

but what about a spool up time for jump drives? (that way you cant et or cap recharge your way across the universe)

or do you think you should get from one side of teh universe to the other in under 30 min... ( i myself with my alts can get from stain to syndicate really fast in my thanny its just a matter of how fast i can cap up)

or titans having to be outside of a pos for the bridge to work?

those two ideas must seem reasonable...

the reason why i said mass limts for cyno's is to try to make some sort of restrictions for larger pvp... like you see in WH space... but for capital projection and fleet projection...

if it just ends up being a hassle thats cool... its just a suggestion. ( i know with Tidi and stuff like that that CCP markets Blobs and tahts cool with me)

I'm just looking for ways to spice things up...you know?

but like someone said earlier in the thread they had thier cyno char pop before everyone could jump which lead to them loosing the fight...

this sounds like a good thing and if there had to be multiple cynoes it would make it more interesting. (as from an outside perspective it should take mass amount of coordination to move massive fleets around... though some would argue this already takes place and its more then a resonable argument)

Ahh good, more posts about caps from people who have no clue about caps.


Hey guys, guys, something reasonable like 20km of the shields guys, reasonable

- Example If goons want to ***** on a titan kill down south in Omist. They can prolly come in time from Deklein before its killed.

- PL are fighting in the south and if they got any troubles with their moons up in Venal they can be in full force in no time up there.

- Lowsec stronger entities are sitting whole day on Titans and jumping on poor guys 3 bridges away (which gets em to the other side of lowsec).

[quote=fukier]

A titan and a cyno can move you from one side of EVE to the other in a single jump?

No, but certainly in a single night, which is far to quick.

Yes, I used to fly in null and ride the titan bridge roads a few years back.

I think you may be assuming too much.

They want fights, but I think it has come to the point over that last several years where Power Projection is actually stifling what null sec could be, and is actually preventing fights in the long run.

I know it is hard for you to see this. But many have felt the same, for many years now.

Somtimes somthing makes it too easy, which is why the JBs got nerf'd.

Now they need to go further, with the power projection of Caps/ SuperCaps.

This thread is almost as bad as that gigantic thread with the same five people insisting over and over again that local chat needed to be removed from nullsec.

Okay, let's just arbitrarily pick an amount of time it should take, since you're obviously not going to be happy until everything fits with your preconceived notion of how things should be.

Yeah, cause that's not speculation.
If they can it's because of tidi.


Gee, and here I was thinking there was this thing called a reinforcement timer that gave structure owners a considerable amount of time to move their **** and prepare for an attack.


This takes a lot longer than you think, and 3 bridges doesn't go as far as you seem to think it does either.

Ok now you have recognized that proliferation does exist in eve (after 2-3 pages of debate tactics made to mask your back pedaling)


I can move ahead with my original point, that you do not seem to be addressing.




Person 1 (I guess being you) likes allot of titans/supers in your fleet and thinks that EVE should be this way
Person 2. Likes the idea of a one massive super-awesome-capital ship (presumably a titan) at the head of a fleet of much greater diversity. (As represented visually in the trailer that I mentioned... ya know, so stupid people don't get confused)




CCP happens to be on the side of person 1, at least at the moment. It was not always so. But what is important to understand (and is hard for narcissists to understand) is that one opinion is not superior to the other. Both can work just fine, and both ideas can support a viable fleet and viable fleet composition. Both are equal and both are legitimate opinions.




I hope I helped explain this very simple, kindergarten level idea to you. It is an important lesson that you will be able to apply towards your real life and perhaps reap deeply profound emotional rewards.

No stop... you don't have to thank me.
Well... ok. I guess you can.

i dont know about you gut space is supposed to feal large and immense... and back in the day this was true... no longer is this a fact...

i am not sure if its a time thing or even a fact you can get across the damn thing that bothers me all together....

i dont know about you gut space is supposed to feal large and immense... and back in the day this was true... no longer is this a fact...

i am not sure if its a time thing or even a fact you can get across the damn thing that bothers me all together....

- Even without the Tidi

- Considerable amount of time like 30 mins?

- 3 jumps is pretty much enough to reach any lowsec point from another lowsec point and it takes no more than 5-10 mins.

So you enjoy travelling 30 jumps?

I don't, nor does it make anything feel "bigger" to me.

When I want to feel how big EVE is, I look at the map an the thousands of points I can visit.

Nor are titans used for general purpose travel through EVE, and when I gotta go 5 jumps through null, that **** feels huge.

but did you not say you can undock from vfk and find a fight? is it not your own fault for creating mega coalitions that causes the need to move 30 plus jumps to get a fight?

you could if you wanted reset someone like i dunno FA or SMA and fight them or even Razor... its your choice not to...

I am just going to leave this here so Mr. Natsett Amuinn can't pedal past it and conveniently pretend like it was not said.
Kiss <3

I think you vastly underestimate the amount of time it takes to travel that far, and overestimate the amount of time it takes to kill a titan.


Like 24+ hours.


Wrong.

So according to you he said he can undock and find a fight right away, and then he said he can't find a fight without going 30 jumps.
Make up your mind already.

So according to you he said he can undock and find a fight right away, and then he said he can't find a fight without going 30 jumps.
Make up your mind already.

Okay, let's just arbitrarily pick an amount of time it should take, since you're obviously not going to be happy until everything fits with your preconceived notion of how things should be.

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...

- Ahm i moved few times from vale to Omist. And took for my ex Corp (with no so good experience) about not even 30 mins to get there with all our stuff. (5 bridges)

- Even if the Timer is 30 mins they d be in time. Keeping that assets that easy should be a at least a bit of a hassle.

- I live in lowsec for already 1 year and we did those 3 jumps billion of times cos of our nomad style of life, and guess what, it takes 5-10 mins.

lol

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...

Actually, null was a lot more fun in many ways before the Titan bridge.

I still have fond memories of long frieghter escorts before all these bridges and jump capable frieghters.
Some very interesting and exciting times.

Let's take a really southern system in Vale, a northern system in Omist, and see how many titan bridges it takes to go from one to the other, assuming the titan pilot has JDC 5.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Avatar,554/C-J7CR:9MWZ-B
Oh look, 10 jumps.
Something tells me you're either exaggerating or fabricating.


So maybe your quarrel has more to do with reinforcement timers than force projection?


Yeah, okay.

Actually, null was a lot more fun in many ways before the Titan bridge.

I still have fond memories of long frieghter escorts before all these bridges and jump capable frieghters.
Some very interesting and exciting times.

- Might be but it was still less than 30 mins :D
- Nah it is about force projection. Timers are just fine.
- See, too easy.

Also Nullsec alliances keeping moon all around lowsec, why? because they can defend it whenever they want without any big hassle.

Funny thing.

More poeple are playing EVE now, and more people are playing in null.

The game you guys keep asking for, was one that very few people wanted to play.

Jeez, I wonder if that's a coinsidence.

I'm sure it's nothing to do with capital production. Nah, can't be.

- Might be but it was still less than 30 mins :D

- Nah it is about force projection. Timers are just fine.

Also Nullsec alliances keeping moon all around lowsec, why? because they can defend it whenever they want without any big hassle.

It must be those who have never experinced null at a time before Titans, JBs, and JFs doen't know what they are missing.
Of course to each their own. You may have and just didn't like it, but many long time players,

It must be those who have never experinced null at a time before Titans, JBs, and JFs doen't know what they are missing.
Of course to each their own. You may have and just didn't like it, but many long time players, including myself, miss those times.

I was a lot funner, and fights came rather easy. Yes, there were plenty of fights before jump drivers and jump bridges.

That's understandable.

Some people liked EQ2 as it was when it first released, but devlopers can't really think about those people and still make a living. Sometimes things need to be improved for the greater good, and since there are far more poeple playing today than was even when I started in '05, I'm going to go with the idea that more poeple like EVE this way then they did in '03.

Hell, my brother thinks atari and nintendo was the good old days of gaming. I don't agree with him either.

That could be slowed down too, yep.

Less than 3 minutes per jump? Damn, your corp must have been incredibly well organized. Either that or you're pulling convenient numbers out of your ass to suit your argument. Seeing as you were wrong about the distance by a factor of two, I find it rather likely you were wrong about the time required by roughly the same amount.


So you think that we should be incapable of moving fleets several titan bridges in the amount of time it takes for a reinforcement timer to run down?
Because that's completely absurd.


Even if it took a fleet of supercaps 5 hours to move across New Eden it wouldn't be a big hassle because reinforcement timers are so much longer than that.

It can be, find the PoS's and ******* blow them up.

Same goes for supers and titans in null. Find them, and then blow up the PoS's.


Why should CCP do the job for you?

Firstly, nullsec has the most fights of any class of sec space.

I think you may be assuming too much.

They want fights, but I think it has come to the point over that last several years where Power Projection is actually stifling what null sec could be, and is actually preventing fights in the long run.

I know it is hard for you to see this. But many have felt the same, for many years now.

LoL u are funny.

I hear that a lot.

Oh god is another popular phrase I hear as well.
I'll use my better judment and not end that with a mom joke.

Please explain why you think I'm to stupid to understand what proliferation means?

I even put it in a sentence properly for you.

Why I would like to believe it is so, it's not, statistically, hisec has the highest numbers of ships killed during the past few years (that's from dotlan statistics), but.. there's a "but" though...

I didn't think so at first, but your previous posts convinced me that you either 1. did not understand what it meant or 2. did not agree that it existed in EVE. You after all were asking for "proof of proliferation" and expecting the Op to count all of the titans in nullsec. I simply called you out on it.


Clear enough?

I said fights. Not tutorial kills.

The OP is impling that titans have been overproliferated, IE; there are to many of them.

And "Over" is that opinion I was talking about. An amount of titans and supers needed to create super + titan heavy fleets far exceeds the amount needed to function at the head of a far more diverse fleet as an "all but stand alone super ship". The amount of supers and titans that exist in game now far exceed the needs of opinion 2 in terms of fleet functioning and fleet structure.



No one opinion is superior to the other (as I had stated)
Both can work and both are valid. They are just two ideas of how Eve can be.




This is all I have been saying this entire time. But i do enjoy watching you pedal back and forth as you try to get ahead in a debate. What would these forums be without people like you to play with.

pedal back and forth

See... you can't seem to read.

Hey grath you are one my fav peeps...

I would love to hear what your thoughts are on this? as you are in i would think the biggest super cap alliance there is and have the most experiance with them.

you are direct and i like that even though sometimes you come off as a jerk...

When all else fails be a bad troll? Gotcha.

Definition: back pedal. "To pedal back".

Very good... now do "Pedal back and forth".

Ooh I have one!
Make it so that the other side gets a jump bridge jammer, that when active prevents these drops.
Now for real fun also have it shut down the gates.
Thus the system is perfectly safe.
Except for the 48 hour window in which it spools down and back up.
Or just limit the number of bridges into an area for a period of time.
After being exceeed no more until dt
Of course these all require that sov be about doing stuff not just sitting around the giant block of hp
Perhaps make it like fw but sov is given to whoever gets all the indexes to one level.

I said fights. Not tutorial kills.

But that's not backpedaling, that's backforthpedaling, or rockpedaling, or something I made up because I wanted something to accuse the other party to this discussion of doing.

Haha, maybe we should start calling EVE "Internet Ships", since things like jump bridges make the space between them so meaningless.

Well done then sir, you should be very proud of yourself. But didn't this thread have something to do with Titans?

Except they increase the meaning of holding space because the people who hold space have a mobility advantage.
So stop with the rhetoric, please.

Most of space is still barren and empty. Less mobility would only serve to add to how many individual sov entities could exist per unit of space

Balance should never be based on cost.

See Tiers and Titans for that reason.

So sure of this, you are.

A spool-up requirement is reasonable. Mass limits for cynos only means that lighting nobody would jump /less/ than 10 supers or 8 titans to a lone cyno, ever. Why? Because it makes a counter-drop that much more difficult. You'd need 5-10 cynos for any serious counter-drop, which is just ridiculous. This basically allows people to use supers with less risk of interference, which is dumb dumb dumb.

Spool-up timers are a decent idea worth discussion, but cyno mass limits are just silly

Are you suggesting that most all of null sec is a living zones where people frequent often, make isk in often, live in and there are more then 1-2 or a small handful of people within at any given time (if that?)


Just to be clear so I can be "certain" of what you are saying before I slap some dotlan in your face. Let's just be clear in order to avoid more "communication issues" in this thread shall we?

Are you suggesting that most all of null sec is a living zones where people frequent often, make isk in often, live in and there are more then 1-2 or a small handful of people within at any given time (if that?)

Yeah, let's make null an even bigger pain in the ass to move around in, that'll definitely fix the problem.

Spool up timers seem perfectly reasonable. It's the limitation capacitors were supposed to impose, but as always the players found a way to organize around it. Putting a hard cap on force projection in terms of time is a fine idea. Same as putting hard caps on moon values.

I think a cooldown would be better, honestly. Something like not being able to jump twice within x amount of time, rather than killing off hotdrops.

Titan bridging is fine, the issue if anything is how cheap the fuel to do it is.

Blame ice miners for making too much ice.