do ships with large rigs already in them keep their bonuses?

Because those large trimark II's just aren't expensive enough.

do you really need another sticky for this? its going to end up with 2 pages of stickies by the time the patch is released

so what if you are a super pilot and you spend a lot of money on the t2 rigs. Will they be upgraded to capital onces are are you gonna be F+¬d?

Well with these rigs consuming 5 times the resources I imagine that will drive up the costs of other rigs as well, at least a wee bit.

I imagine this will drop the prices for battleship sized trimark IIs. No one is going to spend 4.5 billion to rig a carrier or a dread. Therefore demand will drop and prices will drop.

-FM

so what if you are a super pilot and you spend a lot of money on the t2 rigs. Will they be upgraded to capital onces are are you gonna be F+¬d?

This is going to be horrible for prices of T2 rigges capitals.

So what numbes will they have?

How will, for example, t1 capital trimark and t2 large trimark compare in efficiency?

(considering t1 capital trimark will be around 5-10 times cheaper)

They will probably be exactly the same thing as larges.


Also tallest cant spell.

Shouldn't that be "Also, Tallest can't spell."

they do not need to be upgraded. you'll keep the bonus. every bonus on rigs is equal over small, mid and large.
so in the end it's not important which size is fitted.
you can count yourself lucky because after this patch rigging your super will be much more expensive and you saved that cost ;)

What are the skill requirements for these rigs?

CCP said they where changing exploring, so we might see a buff to salvage.
But t2 (and some t1) rigs for caps will cost alot. (you need to look at that ccp)

Love it.

Spend 1.3b on an Archon then 4.5b on T2 rigs. Good job CCP!

Hey

We're putting capital rigs into EVE. Not much else to say, really. They will work pretty much as you would expect them to.

Some things to note:
* Rigs that previously did not affect capital modules will affect capital modules
** (Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard, Auxiliary Nano Pump and Nanobot Accelerator rigs)
* Tech I BPOs will cost 50 Million ISK
* Manufacturing Capital rigs will use 5 times the materials of Large rigs

Questions? Comments?

Love it.

Spend 1.3b on an Archon then 4.5b on T2 rigs. Good job CCP!

Shouldn't that be "Also, Tallest can't spell."

Shouldn't that be "Also, Tallest can't spell."

To chip in: As there most likely will not be an "Evenysey", I believe it's called "Odyssey" (see title)

But t2 (and some t1) rigs for caps will cost alot. (you need to look at that ccp)

I hope that you compensate us for our Large T2 Trimarks on our supercapitals / titans.

Will large rigs that are already fitted also work with capital sized modules?

Or would I have to pull off the rigs in order to fit the new capital sized ones?

Why would they do this? They'll continue to give the bonus just as they do now.

If they change trimarks to Capital Trimarks, then hopefully there is some sort of compensation. However it looks like they wont be changing trimarks over.

...why would you need compensation? Whether they change them or not they'd work exactly as before. If anything, were they to change them they really should be deducting several billion isk from your wallet, the difference between the price of large trimarks and capital trimarks.

will salvage drops increase to balance the demand that this will bring or CCP and keep prices steady or will just let the prices go up and mess with the economy?

I imagine this will drop the prices for battleship sized trimark IIs. No one is going to spend 4.5 billion to rig a carrier or a dread. Therefore demand will drop and prices will drop.

-FM

Love it.

Spend 1.3b on an Archon then 4.5b on T2 rigs. Good job CCP!

Price, unless you want to pay NCDOT for changing over 300 supercapitals to Capital Trimark Armor Pump II (probably 1b a pop)

Yes. Your currently fitted rigs will stay in place and keep their bonuses.

Look at the tools posting like they know what's up. Let's all point and laugh at them!

Seriously, if the MATERIAL price increases by 5x, then that means a T2 rigged carrier will cost you 2.3-2.4b isk.

The math is pretty easy:

Intact Armor Plates x70 - 1.12b

Interface Circuit x85 - 22m

Nanite Compound x55 - 4.73m

RAM x0.2 - 20k

Total: 1.147b

So, we'd get the following as a price calculation: 1.147*2 , then we'd add another 40m for the 3rd rig, which will be T1.

2.334b (This includes a 15% markup)

I don't get it.

Look at the tools posting like they know what's up. Let's all point and laugh at them!

Seriously, if the MATERIAL price increases by 5x, then that means a T2 rigged carrier will cost you 2.3-2.4b isk.

The math is pretty easy:

Intact Armor Plates x70 - 1.12b

Interface Circuit x85 - 22m

Nanite Compound x55 - 4.73m

RAM x0.2 - 20k

Total: 1.147b

So, we'd get the following as a price calculation: 1.147*2 , then we'd add another 40m for the 3rd rig, which will be T1.

2.334b (This includes a 15% markup)

All large rigs on capitals should be un-fitted on a patch day, that would be fair.
Other than that - great change.

And btw, is Orca a capital ship?
Edit: obviously not, over-reacting here.

Unless this is a way to lower the cost of large rigs and not a way to increase the cost or component requirements for capital sized mods vs large, this is going to be a bad change.

I can't see a reason to increase the investment needed for a standard capital and we all know that cost has little to do with the proliferation issues this game is having.

Are you sure?

Your maths is very poor. It will cost 1.5bil per Capital T2 trimark at mineral cost. That means 4.5bil for 3 before markup. Thats going to make the price on a armour super sky rocket. So if a fitted aeon costs 22bil now then a fitted aeon afterwards would cost at least 26bil.

But so what? You have warning! Everyone is on an equal footing now, everyone has adequate time to compensate...

TBH 22-26bn when your talking super caps - well you (in a general sense) probably can't afford one anyway if your quibbling over that amount of price difference - but its another story when your talking things like triage archons - they already struggle with the proliferation of neuting with just T1 rigs - pricing T2 CCC rigs out of the sensible range of the average archon pilot is going to put quite a damper on carrier use in PVP which isn't a great idea in a wider sense for the game (unless carriers also get a bit of a capacitor buff with the coming capital rebalancing).

I don't see a problem with putting a damper on how powerful carriers are right now.

[quote=Fango Mango]It will raise the price of all rigs since salvage (especially t2 armor plates and ward consoles) is a resource with a fairly limited supply. Since every new super capital, bling WH cap, or dreads with gun rigs will be using 5x the supply of T2 salvage this will bring the price up.

Probably won't have too much of an effect on the t1 market, at least in the long run, both because supply of materials is larger and the amount of capitals that get rigged everyday is nothing compared to how many battleships do the same.

Pretty sure!

http://i.imgur.com/8nTfAP7.png

Another Odyssey change unfriendly only to newer pilots, those who don't have capitals yet.

Seriously, introducing capital rigs and leaving large rigs as they are, without any penalty on capital ships, just increases the barrier for players new to capitals.

Especially this is a problem for supercarriers, because existing ones almost aren't killed at all thanks to current game mechanics.

Same skill requirements for fitting these as other rigs.

What if I install large rigs that dont currently work on capitals... Will they work after the patch?

Why would you do that?

Why would you do that?

You alliance must be smugging it right now. If T2 salvage triples in price due to this, as seems possible, this is potentially a 15 trillion isk boost to the value of your supercapital fleet.

Way to go CCPL.

Why would you do that?

Am I on equal footing with PL supercap fleet? Oh, you're over-estimating me.

my titan will still be in build :\

This is a 7.5 Billion isk boost for anyone who already has a T2 rigged supercap. You should seriously consider making existing rigs which are too small for their ship class ineffective to create a level playing field.

Giving the thousands of existing supercapital pilots a 7.5 billion isk advantage over new pilots is too much.

Yes, you are, in terms of fitting your ship! You have equal access to modules, equal access to fitting options, and equal access to rigs.
Now, do you have equal access to the ship hulls themselves? Maybe, maybe not... but this change doesn't alter that in the slightest!

my titan will still be in build :\

Hi Tallest,

Can you please clarify the T2 question? WILL there be T2 capital rigs? ie, will the invention cycle even work on these new BPOs?

Also, I assume you guys went into this understanding the impact this is going to have on the salvage and rig markets. Can you talk a bit about that? Because it sure seems like this change is going to severely hurt newer players and smaller alliances, enormously raising their risk when actually using capitals. It's also going to severely strain the already absurdly volatile T2 salvage market.

But maybe there are other factors in play that I'm not aware of?

Hi Tallest,

Can you please clarify the T2 question? WILL there be T2 capital rigs? ie, will the invention cycle even work on these new BPOs?

Also, I assume you guys went into this understanding the impact this is going to have on the salvage and rig markets. Can you talk a bit about that? Because it sure seems like this change is going to severely hurt newer players and smaller alliances, enormously raising their risk when actually using capitals. It's also going to severely strain the already absurdly volatile T2 salvage market.

But maybe there are other factors in play that I'm not aware of?

Your maths is very poor. It will cost 1.5bil per Capital T2 trimark at mineral cost.

That means 4.5bil for 3 before markup. Thats going to make the price on a armour super sky rocket. So if a fitted aeon costs 22bil now then a fitted aeon afterwards would cost at least 26bil.

So rigging a tonne of capitals before odyssey = free isk, right? This doesn't seem well thought-out to me.

So, if 3 T2 rigs go for 4.5 BIllion, as your newest CSM mouthpiece says, and you are suggesting this is a boost of 15 trillion in value, 15,000/ 4.5 = approx 3300 supercaps. So, you are saying that PL has 3300 supercaps? Or are you just really dumb at math?

The change assures existing monopoly on supercaps even futher. And this is bad. Rich becomes richer, poor becomes poorer.

The change assures existing monopoly on supercaps even futher. And this is bad. Rich becomes richer, poor becomes poorer.

Hi Tallest,

Can you please clarify the T2 question? WILL there be T2 capital rigs? ie, will the invention cycle even work on these new BPOs?

Also, I assume you guys went into this understanding the impact this is going to have on the salvage and rig markets. Can you talk a bit about that? Because it sure seems like this change is going to severely hurt newer players and smaller alliances, enormously raising their risk when actually using capitals. It's also going to severely strain the already absurdly volatile T2 salvage market.

But maybe there are other factors in play that I'm not aware of?

How will this affect rigs for Orca's? They're in the market as capital ships but at the same time are not really...
Will they stick with large rigs?

Absolutely this. The rich get richer... I'm about 8 weeks out of flying a dread well and having the money to fit it up right... Now all the old, rich players have t2 rigged toys and I'm stuck.


SIMPLE(ISH) SOLUTION:
all the rigs on caps dissasemble into their components (which are dropped in cargo hold/hangar as appropriate). Warn everybody repeatedly in advance so capital pilots can make plans for re-rigging. The cap rig BPOs can be seeded well in advance of this "large rigs fall off of cap ships" date to make transition quick and easy.

This solution slightly hurts older players, but when the choice is completely gouging younger players/smaller alliances or slightly hurting old players/big alliances... I sure hope CCP knows which way to make that decision...

I believe this is an exaggeration. Moreless, a supercap oligarchy currently exists. These changes won't change the supercap distribution. It will change the cost effectiveness on rigging Carriers and Dreads, but those are already ubiquitous enough, and die regularly enough, that the change doesn't give any significant advantages to anyone.

It also doesn't change the distribution of wealth in the game. Large rigs remain large rigs. Rigs attached can't be unattached and sold, and few will be. Sure, their ships might become worth a little more, but not enough to matter in the grand scheme of things!

How will this affect rigs for Orca's? They're in the market as capital ships but at the same time are not really...
Will they stick with large rigs?

Its not really. You cannot take the rigs off the ships. And its not like you can sell your rigged Super/Titan for profit....

Yes, I can.

Tech 2 large trimarks are exclusively supercap busincess. Nobody does that for dreads and carriers.

So demand for tech 2 trimarks will likely go down to around zero. What that will do to prices? Who knows

You know, an actual balance concern is that this makes armor caps that much stronger in some small way. I'm told remote rep augmentors don't work for caps right now, but presumably a capital version will exist as a result of this change. That's a rather large deal for triage carriers, except there is no equivalent for remote shield boosters.

You know, an actual balance concern is that this makes armor caps that much stronger in some small way. I'm told remote rep augmentors don't work for caps right now, but presumably a capital version will exist as a result of this change. That's a rather large deal for triage carriers, except there is no equivalent for remote shield boosters.




People in wormholes and I guess maybe some lowsec pilots do, because the numbers involved are smaller.

Bloc dread pilots don't, though, because the extra EHP is rarely a matter of "do I live or die" but rather "how many extra seconds do I live?"

I'm fairly sure that the RRAs already work on capital RAR mods.

I'm not sure how the argument that this increases the value of supercaps is valid. What sane alliance would sell 20 supercaps to make 100B off rigs? Considering the first thing they'd need to do is buy/build new supercaps to replace the ones they lost which would cost an extra 4B-5B each to be T2 rigged. Alternately, you could save the money and use T1 rigs, ending up with something not as good.

The simple solution is to detach any rigs of the wrong size on all ships, and stick them in the ship's cargo hold.

This should have been done when the original rig split into small, medium and large happened, but CCP were a lot less confident in their database teams ability to do this sort of thing without buggering it up back then.

Since then multiple rollouts of changes to ships have taken place where this has been the method, including changes to supercarrier drone bays.

Haven't seen this many tears about supercaps since before the titan tracking nerf. Keep it up, poors, you are making my afternoon entertaining.

I'm fairly sure that the RRAs already work on capital RAR mods.

So there was a time not long ago when blowing up t2 frigs for plates was nearly viable.

With increased demand I would expect increased prices for materials as well.

Any thoughts on blowing up t2 frigs for plates?

Yes. Your currently fitted rigs will stay in place and keep their bonuses.

EFT says they do, but then again EFT is fallible. Someone else claims they don't. I have no idea which is true.

As to effectiveness, with 3x CPR II/4x Cap Recharger II, 3x CRAR I and 3x CCC I a max skill archon runs for 2m41s. With 3x RRA, it's 6m29s.

Add a CETA to the mix and its down to 1m43s with CCCs, 2m44s with the RRAs.

Run two local reps as well and it's a much smaller difference; 1m7s with CCC, 1m28s with RRAs.

If the fit is 2x CRAR/2x CETA, the RRAs still come out ahead, albeit by less. Regardless, the significance varies by what else you have to run, and shield caps still have no equivalent.


e: Someone else is telling me they DO work already, so eh. Given that and that no one uses them, I guess it doesn't matter.

um, t2 trimarks on a cap (to pick one example) will be nominally worth something like 1.5 billion each after patch. that's not "a little more" in my book. Not for carriers/dreads anyway.

You don't need to unattach the rigs to get value out of them. Unless you rigged completely weird, you WILL find a buyer who wants those rigs and will be able to get top price for it. This isn't like somebody trying to sell a raven with t2 trimarks saying boohoo nobody will pay me for my rigs. Fittings are more standard, choices usually more clear, and the number of permutations MUCH lower (17 combat cap ships total vs >250 subcaps)

I'm very curious what Dr.Eyj+¦ has to say about this, because this is with out a doubt the biggest pile of **** i have ever seen.

Can we get a definitive answer on which ship classes will require capital rigs? I'm assuming Titans, Supercarriers, Dreadnoughts, Carriers, and Capital Industrials; any others?

(TL;DR: can we get an answer regarding the Orca?)

It was about time, yay I also hope CCP will in future do some rebalancing around rigs-there are few ones used very often and the rest is just useless, it should be fixed. Also I would like to see some new system with salvage-like using ton of t1 salvage to make t2, maybe even different ones. Something like salvage reactions

So who is going to buy t2 rigs for anything smaller than mothership? whats the point of creating such thing like t2 capital rigs which nearly noone going to buy?

Offhand I'd say wormholers. I can't think of anyone else though.

So who is going to buy t2 rigs for anything smaller than mothership? whats the point of creating such thing like t2 capital rigs which nearly noone going to buy?

will salvage drops increase to balance the demand that this will bring or CCP and keep prices steady or will just let the prices go up and mess with the economy?

Haven't seen this many tears about supercaps since before the titan tracking nerf. Keep it up, poors, you are making my afternoon entertaining.

My supercap is now worth an extra 4-5bil! :D

The goal is clearly to entrench the groups with superiority anyway vOv

not sure on your logic, If what im understanding is true, your super will still have large trimark II's after patch. It will be like when they added small medium and large in and people have large rigged frigates.

i don't really understand why are ppl complaining: it's a logic move, and it was a long time coming one.
t1 trimarks where @15milion/u for a long time, now they are like what 7 mil;

regarding t2 ones, if the t2 capital ones are too expensive then you maibe should not be in one...or you can fit t1

Agreed, no problem , but if set of t2 rigs is more expensive than a ship they are fitted on, (like carrier) makes very little sence, and price/gain ratio is just crazy low.

ITT Mynas makes up 15 trillion out of thin air and says we got it.


I for one want my share, praytell Mynas how can i extract my part of this 15 trillion?

Hey

We're putting capital rigs into EVE. Not much else to say, really. They will work pretty much as you would expect them to.

Some things to note:
* Rigs that previously did not affect capital modules will affect capital modules
** (Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard, Auxiliary Nano Pump and Nanobot Accelerator rigs)
* Tech I BPOs will cost 50 Million ISK
* Manufacturing Capital rigs will use 5 times the materials of Large rigs

Questions? Comments?

So who is going to buy t2 rigs for anything smaller than mothership? whats the point of creating such thing like t2 capital rigs which nearly noone going to buy?

Yes. Your currently fitted rigs will stay in place and keep their bonuses.

T2 rig any t1nonfaction subcap ship and rig price will be higher than ship price, I cant see any problem with this applying to caps as well ...

tech II trimarks on a vindi with a full slave implant is pretty awesome1

Happy with the changes, T2 rigged capitals could be seen as slightly OP. Would have been more interesting if CCP built logic so that if rig size is less than that which ship requires they don't work.

1000's of capital pilots having to get new rigs could have been interesting indeed. Looking forward to the change, active tanking buff as someone has already said capital cap booster be appreciated with cap booster 1600's or 3200's. I wan't to turn my moros into a giant triple rep hyperion.

itl totally unfair to favor one group over another or make changes that affect folks in such a way as to benefit some.
just like when BOB was given a lot of the t2 bpo's back in the day...some became super rich from them and we all suffered with their high prices. it was supposed to be a lotto, but we know that wasnt what happened...

make it so everyone benefits.

Most people are ignoring the good bit of news that CCP Tallest cleverly hid in this announcement:

With this change CCP is finally introducing T2 capital sized mods, in this particular scenario rigs. Now that they opened that door, it's reasonable to expect t2 capital guns, which are long overdue (as well as reps, fighters, cap boosters, etc).

wth? you realize t2 guns and reps already exist, and fighters/fighter bombers are already for carriers only...

I'm just gonna go ahead and assumed I have fallen victim to a troll?

wth? you realize t2 guns and reps already exist, and fighters/fighter bombers are already for carriers only...

I'm just gonna go ahead and assumed I have fallen victim to a troll?

First, you never had vindicator

Can we get a definitive answer on which ship classes will require capital rigs? I'm assuming Titans, Supercarriers, Dreadnoughts, Carriers, and Capital Industrials; any others?

(TL;DR: can we get an answer regarding the Orca?)

1.5b isk t2 rigs seem a bit much

How will this affect ships with large rigs already in place?

wth? you realize t2 guns and reps already exist, and fighters/fighter bombers are already for carriers only...

I'm just gonna go ahead and assumed I have fallen victim to a troll?

1.5b isk t2 rigs seem a bit much

woot?
T2 rigs required for capitals (not supers), such as CCC T2 for carriers are already comparable to the price of the hull itself! You want rigs for PVP-used ships to become 2.5 times the price of the capital ship? Those carriers NEED T2 rigs.

Maybe carriers and dreads should remain on large rigs, while supers use their own class of rigs?

Why would you do that?

I'd love to see T1->T2 salvage alchemy (like with moon goo) rolled out in parallel to the introduction of capital rigs (or soon after).

I think it would decrease the cost of T2-rigging big ships from insane to only very expensive.

This is f*** unfair. Im a fairly new player and slowly progressing to a dread and now you tell me all the older players had to pay 1 bill for 3 rigs and ill have to pay 4,5 bil if I will want to have the same thing??? Seriously, you are really trying to get rid of new players... And its not like older players have the same financial difficulties than new players. You should seriously get more "new player" friendly and I don't mean that in the way of reducing training time or nerfing capitals, but more from the financial aspect. And guess who will have no problems affording the capital rigs. Older players and their big alliances, specially those with nice moons... Yeah, I should probably go and do some super fun mining, cause I should fly only stuff that I can afford...

I know you cant repay for the rigs, cause it would mean that you would need "print" and pump a lot of isk into eve and that isn't your policy, but maybe you could give these players bpc's and the salvage for the large t2 rigs they have fitted? Instead of giving them a 4,5 bil advantage per capital ship in front of new players... And now every one who has the skill and money is rigging their capital...

Most people are ignoring the good bit of news that CCP Tallest cleverly hid in this announcement:

With this change CCP is finally introducing T2 capital sized mods, in this particular scenario rigs. Now that they opened that door, it's reasonable to expect t2 capital guns, which are long overdue (as well as reps, fighters, cap boosters, etc).

wth? you realize t2 guns and reps already exist, and fighters/fighter bombers are already for carriers only...

I'm just gonna go ahead and assumed I have fallen victim to a troll?

Will you be addressing the supply of T2 salvage?

not sure on your logic, If what im understanding is true, your super will still have large trimark II's after patch. It will be like when they added small medium and large in and people have large rigged frigates.

Also, i just bought 250 intact armor plates, This patch better make me billions rather then lose billions :P

So what numbes will they have?

How will, for example, t1 capital trimark and t2 large trimark compare in efficiency?

(considering t1 capital trimark will be around 5-10 times cheaper)

Hey
* Manufacturing Capital rigs will use 5 times the materials of Large rigs

Questions? Comments?

How will this affect rigs for Orca's? They're in the market as capital ships but at the same time are not really...
Will they stick with large rigs?

I will stop using capitals then, too expenssive.

Yes. Your currently fitted rigs will stay in place and keep their bonuses.

No one will stop using capitals because of rigs, and CCP should add super capital rigs.

No one will stop using capitals because of rigs, and CCP should add super capital rigs.

Still we should not check the ship size - but ship class ( already defined long time ago).
And Capital ships and Super Capital ships are quite different.

We're putting capital rigs into EVE. Not much else to say, really. They will work pretty much as you would expect them to.

Maybe not super capitals, but for carriers to spend extra 5b for rigs is just insane.

You do realise that T1 capital rigs will only cost 100 to 150 mil isk per ship right, not 5 bil?