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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Velarra
234
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Posted - 2013.06.08 14:15:00 -
[451] - Quote
CCP Sisyphus wrote:Wading into a can of worms I'm sure, but here goes.
We ARE looking at this and considering what we can do. The back end system used by the client has changed which makes a "turn off" not a real proposition. We are looking at ways to reduce the nausea reaction some players are experiencing through other means.
It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty
I am sorry for those adversely affected,.
It's the forced camera panning & constant zooming inward movement that focuses on the stargate center, as the gate is activated.
Please stop zooming the camera in & forcefully panning / 'tracking" toward the stargate.
It's not the stargate-warp tunnel. It's not landing on the other side, it's the forced camera movement BEFORE the gate activates, while it's starting up, before the gate opens up the tunnel.
Note: the entire animation is cool the first time. Yet by the 60th jump it's sheer biological torture. |
Aldap
Club Bear
213
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:28:00 -
[452] - Quote
CCP Sisyphus wrote:Wading into a can of worms I'm sure, but here goes.
We ARE looking at this and considering what we can do. The back end system used by the client has changed which makes a "turn off" not a real proposition. We are looking at ways to reduce the nausea reaction some players are experiencing through other means.
It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty
I am sorry for those adversely affected,. Thanks for the post.
I really don't understand why you'd create it in such a way that it can't be switched off... It makes absolutely no sense.
I said it before, its a cool animation, I like it.
But after 200... 300 jumps by now (yes, some of us do roams that can easily reach 30-50 jumps a day), it honestly makes me cringe at the thought of making another single jump. What I now do is literally turn away from the screen to a book I'm reading, and 'come back' to Eve a few seconds later. I hopelessly miss the loading bar by now. The jump sequence, as some people already wrote here by now, has become a kind of ridiculous torture. My latest solo PvP videos |
Amaladis
N0IR.
14
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Posted - 2013.06.08 14:39:00 -
[453] - Quote
Please CCP, have mercy upon our tortured souls and enable us to turn this 'feature' off! :S |
Amarra Mandalin
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
567
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Posted - 2013.06.08 14:51:00 -
[454] - Quote
Geralden wrote:[quote=CCP Sisyphus]Wading into a can of worms I'm sure, but here goes.
We ARE looking at this and considering what we can do. The back end system used by the client has changed which makes a "turn off" not a real proposition. We are looking at ways to reduce the nausea reaction some players are experiencing through other means.
It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty
I am sorry for those adversely affected,.
Thanks CCP Sisyphus.
As for what is causing the problem, I'm sure it varies for people from a medical/biological standpoint, but for me I think it's the sudden switch to first-person view combined with the sudden fast movement.
And, headphone wearers -- esp. those whom have surround sound, might have additional problems -- akin, but not identical to, issues with binaural beats -- is the only way I can think to describe it. |
Your Royal Highness
Mohawk Campers
19
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:05:00 -
[455] - Quote
CCP Sisyphus wrote:Wading into a can of worms I'm sure, but here goes.
We ARE looking at this and considering what we can do. The back end system used by the client has changed which makes a "turn off" not a real proposition. We are looking at ways to reduce the nausea reaction some players are experiencing through other means.
It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty
I am sorry for those adversely affected,.
This is a complicated area. Some facts:
Sensitivity to visual, sound, movement/balance and proprioception (spatial awareness) varies hugely across the population. So some people will not be affected by stuff like the new jump animation, BUT others will. Generally, the stronger the visual effect, the greater the number of people who will have an unintended sensory response. Note: this is about much more than epilepsy.
So those who have made posts that are disparaging about the complainers in this thread are likely not to be affected themselves. That doesn't mean that the problem is not real - and very unsettling - for many other players who are complaining. The fact that a large number of people are feeling 'woozed' by the new effect compared to the old one suggests that a tolerance threshold has been passed re: sensory tolerance levels across the general population.
Sensory hypersensitivity is an everyday fact of life for some people, those with even mild autism for example are particularly prone. Typically the behavioural response is one of avoiding the source of the discomfort. For example, some people will avoid certain stores because they can't cope with the type of fluorescent lighting used. So... looking away from the screen will not be the response to this problem in EVE... yes for some, it will be just uncomfortable, but for others more strongly affected it will be not playing the game at all, because their senses just can't cope with it.
CCP will be onto this. They won't want people to leave the game just because of the unintended consequences of a poorly executed bit of visual titillation. I am sure they will find a way for the vast majority of players to one again be able to undertake long hauls across the EVE universe without feeling the urge to be sick. We are not amused... |
Viktor Allende
Piranha Enterprises Nulli Legio
10
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:15:00 -
[456] - Quote
CCP Sisyphus wrote: It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty
Thx for the answer. For me, i think, it's mainly the pre-jump-switch from the normal controllable "far-away-view" to the "firstperson-view". It seems to be too fast and to flashy for my eyes. And this is just the pretransition for another flashy fps-transition.
Maybe loosing the still fixpoint in the center of the screen (->the ship) is one of the mainproblems. The whole visible world turning around the ship all the time (even in station), and during this jumptransition this "basepattern" is gone. |
cheese monkey
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
154
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:50:00 -
[457] - Quote
Just did a 12 jump return trip from rens to hek, I was actually dreading it.
It is far too OTT for a simple jump, something that some people do hundreds of times a day.
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Kewso
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:53:00 -
[458] - Quote
The camera has to show you going through the stargate. otherwise it don't look right, are you jumping next to the gate, or x km away from the gate... no you supposed to be entering directly center of the gate to jump.
the new way shows that this is what happens and looks way better than sitting next to a gate when you jump.
the jump animation takes about 2 seconds for me, although I do have a legit gaming pc :P
It's sorta like docking, we can't manually dock it's automated and when we undock it's automated. eventually they may add effects that the station tractor beams the ship into place for the pilot.
same for jump gates, pilot arrives, wants to jump, the jumpgate aligns the pilot since that is the jumpgates job to take over now hence the take over of the camera drones.
I'm with the rest of the people that love it, don't change a thing |
Groundskeeper Seamus
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:57:00 -
[459] - Quote
CCP Sisyphus wrote:Wading into a can of worms I'm sure, but here goes.
We ARE looking at this and considering what we can do. The back end system used by the client has changed which makes a "turn off" not a real proposition. We are looking at ways to reduce the nausea reaction some players are experiencing through other means.
It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty
I am sorry for those adversely affected,.
The old jump system worked just fine with the new client the week before odyssey, but it can't now? It's just baffling that something like this could make it through testing. It's like just because someone put in the hours to make it we're stuck with it, regardless of how it turned out.
I was really excited for all of the ship changes, but the bells and whistles crap that shouldn't have any bearing on the game is making me not want to play. Give me some options to turn off the jump animation, and the scanner animation while you're at it.
"It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty"
I don't want any of it, the jerky camera motions, the cloud or whatever it is, the weird sudden stop at the end, the scan animation when entering a new system. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:09:00 -
[460] - Quote
CCP Sisyphus wrote:Wading into a can of worms I'm sure, but here goes.
We ARE looking at this and considering what we can do. The back end system used by the client has changed which makes a "turn off" not a real proposition. We are looking at ways to reduce the nausea reaction some players are experiencing through other means.
It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty
I am sorry for those adversely affected,.
Change the animations...
1. Remove the "canned" animation of being pulled into the gate, which forces the camera angle change. 2. No wormhole effect (because it can be too disorienting). 3. The new grid like pattern effect when in the next zone and cloaked, also loses it's effect and meaning by how zoomed in the ship is then, too (camera focus is on the ship itself).
This is one of those changes that is nice, but the execution of it just falls flat. It's not one of those times to increase the animation time, since it's already a time sink to use so many gates to get from point A to Z.
Make the gates prettier with lights perhaps. Or an animation of being loaded from the front into the gate could do (instead of allowing the ships to literally bump into the gate at any angle), if the animation is short...no longer than 5 seconds.
Think of the long haul travelers like freighters, they already move and turn slow enough. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1015
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:34:00 -
[461] - Quote
Kewso wrote:the jump animation takes about 2 seconds for me, although I do have a legit gaming pc :P
Another, unhelpful faceless alt poasting. Bet they're all of the same troll owner.
PS: time the animation with a stop watch, it takes more then 2 seconds. |
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
51
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:41:00 -
[462] - Quote
Quote:It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty Here is my list
- The initial rotation of the camera makes me feel dizzy
- The tunnel effect makes me feel like falling and causes vertigo
- I am not epileptic but the flashing in the tunnel in really disturbing
- The violent deacceleration at the end of the tunnel feels like, well, a violent deacceleration
- The final rotation of the camera towards the gate is disorientating
In short: Every single part of the animation bothers me. Add to this, that even people who doesn't feel any physical side-effect gets very tired after jumping for long because the animation is simply overdone for such a simple task
Quote:a "turn off" [is] not a real proposition I don't buy this. I can understand if you are proud of your work and maybe sorry about its reception, but don't bullshit me: If we can jump with the map open, then we can also have an option that automatically switch to map-mode (or even better a blank screen) for the duration of the jump. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1792
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:51:00 -
[463] - Quote
so what if jump would work like warp? Sure you don't see your ship but if you could still spin your cam around the point where your ship is supposed to be (as energy beam or in whatever state it is).
if tracking cam is on it would do the cinematic cam rotation at the beginning of the jump and when its off it would only move the cam to the center of the gate without rotating or zooming.. player would have cam control all the time. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2270
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:52:00 -
[464] - Quote
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty
This animated .gif demonstrates the spinning camera view problem nicely.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Maybelater Headache
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:52:00 -
[465] - Quote
Huang Mo wrote:Quote:It would be helpful if we got feedback about what in particular during the jump sequence is causing the most difficulty Here is my list
- The initial rotation of the camera makes me feel dizzy
- The tunnel effect makes me feel like falling and causes vertigo
- I am not epileptic but the flashing in the tunnel in really disturbing
- The violent deacceleration at the end of the tunnel feels like, well, a violent deacceleration
- The final rotation of the camera towards the gate is disorientating
In short: Every single part of the animation bothers me. Add to this, that even people who doesn't feel any physical side-effect gets very tired after jumping for long because the animation is overdone for such a simple task Quote:a "turn off" [is] not a real proposition I don't buy this. I can understand if you are proud of your work, maybe sorry about its reception, and are reacting defensively, but don't bullshit me: If we can jump with the map open, then we can also have an option that automatically switch to map-mode (or even better a blank screen) for the duration of the jump.
I guess it is meant ccp is not willing to put the effort in. So it might, again, be a matter of pressure aka unsubscribing in relevant numbers. There are a lot of people totally annoyed by those fancy effects not posting here, not logging in anymore since the latest release. I am in doubt anyone will pay for a game one is not playing anymore. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
312
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:08:00 -
[466] - Quote
Hey CCP, I'm a nurse, and I'm quite familiar with the motion sickness in games thing.
The prime problem is the speed that the tunnel clouds move at. You're simulation of fast forward movement is triggering a brain disagreement between eyes and ears, and that's what triggers the motion sickness.
Couple of fix suggestions follow.
1. Remove the clouds, to decrease perception of movement. 2. If you can't remove them, add a slider in order to make the perceived movement slower. 3. Remove the distance point, the clear spot at the end. 4. Allow free-movement of the camera.
The key motion trigger is perception of forward movement. You have to get rid of that. Good luck. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Sister Sophia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:22:00 -
[467] - Quote
Maybelater Headache wrote:I guess it is meant ccp is not willing to put the effort in. So it might, again, be a matter of pressure aka unsubscribing in relevant numbers.
You know? I respect your take on this. But I'm not so sure.
Just about any place I've worked has various factions that don't really see eye to eye about the future of the enterprise. I bet CCP is the same. I agree that the subscriber base needs to help make the point that the "flashy arts effects come first" faction has things ass backwards. All we need to do in order to do this is just not to log in much for a week or two. Looking at that stupid animation is so unpleasant that this is not exactly a sacrifice. If the numbers go down a bit, the faction that wants to put content before flash will be able to make their point (I hope).
I think threatening to unsubscribe is the wrong approach. I really like this game and all the work they've put in. It's original, complex, difficult and unlike anything else I've seen. I don't actually intend to unsubscribe as long as they make a good faith effort to put out a quality product. I want to see them improve it, not walk away.
Here's one other thing: if the online numbers go down, they will be getting fewer new subscriptions. That's plenty bad enough. |
Mistress Rose
Tech Two Rig Systems
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:30:00 -
[468] - Quote
I'll throw my hat into the ring here. I have vertigo, and yes....its a physical inner ear condition. However, the brain and inner ear work together with the eyes, and the new animation is really, really bad. It does force me to look away, and the movement combined with rapid eye movement is disconcerting at best, nauseating at worst.
Seriously guys....no one asked for the eye candy. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. The option to turn it off would be nice.
Legal: I accept that I play the game at my OWN risk with any medical conditions, however, YOU risk losing revenue if myself (and others) simply find the game unacceptable to play.
Thanks!
MR |
Hazzard
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
40
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:37:00 -
[469] - Quote
I surprised there are this many people that don't like it. Those that get vertigo I can understand.
But my system is 5 years old and I can run 3 copies full screen (3 monitors) with no lag even with the new animation, so unless your multi-boxing 5+ clients I highly doubt lag is an issue.
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Maybelater Headache
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:39:00 -
[470] - Quote
Sister Sophia wrote:Maybelater Headache wrote:I guess it is meant ccp is not willing to put the effort in. So it might, again, be a matter of pressure aka unsubscribing in relevant numbers. You know? I respect your take on this. But I'm not so sure. Just about any place I've worked has various factions that don't really see eye to eye about the future of the enterprise. I bet CCP is the same. I agree that the subscriber base needs to help make the point that the "flashy arts effects come first" faction has things ass backwards. All we need to do in order to do this is just not to log in much for a week or two. Looking at that stupid animation is so unpleasant that this is not exactly a sacrifice. If the numbers go down a bit, the faction that wants to put content before flash will be able to make their point (I hope). I think threatening to unsubscribe is the wrong approach. I really like this game and all the work they've put in. It's original, complex, difficult and unlike anything else I've seen. I don't actually intend to unsubscribe as long as they make a good faith effort to put out a quality product. I want to see them improve it, not walk away. Here's one other thing: if the online numbers go down, they will be getting fewer new subscriptions. That's plenty bad enough.
I don-¦t login since wednesday anyway, so do a couple of players i know as well. I guess this number will rise for obvious reasons, the signs are already there. It-¦s natural, because playing a game that annoys you is not what we commonly do. Unsubscribing is the logical consequence in case CCP is not able to present a adequate alternative in time. The reason i am posting here like crazy is- i love this game. |
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cheese monkey
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
154
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:26:00 -
[471] - Quote
LOL, must be a kick in the d1ck that CCP try so hard on something they think is cool and most people hate it after 2 minutes.
Still - Please give us a choice CCP. |
Geralden
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:36:00 -
[472] - Quote
cheese monkey wrote:LOL, must be a kick in the d1ck that CCP try so hard on something they think is cool and most people hate it after 2 minutes.
Still - Please give us a choice CCP.
Common... we all know what AWESOME means at CCP... they (ab) used that word on the WIS that we got instead of Incarna.... so.. yea, back at beeing AWESOME, CCP ? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3612
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:39:00 -
[473] - Quote
Geralden wrote:cheese monkey wrote:LOL, must be a kick in the d1ck that CCP try so hard on something they think is cool and most people hate it after 2 minutes.
Still - Please give us a choice CCP. Common... we all know what AWESOME means at CCP... they (ab) used that word on the WIS that we got instead of Incarna.... so.. yea, back at beeing AWESOME, CCP ? Also, Dragon Age 2, with the button-awesome tagline. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
35
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:43:00 -
[474] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Geralden wrote:cheese monkey wrote:LOL, must be a kick in the d1ck that CCP try so hard on something they think is cool and most people hate it after 2 minutes.
Still - Please give us a choice CCP. Common... we all know what AWESOME means at CCP... they (ab) used that word on the WIS that we got instead of Incarna.... so.. yea, back at beeing AWESOME, CCP ? Also, Dragon Age 2, with the button-awesome tagline.
LOL so funny |
marVLs
175
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:49:00 -
[475] - Quote
cheese monkey wrote:LOL, must be a kick in the d1ck that CCP try so hard on something they think is cool and most people hate it after 2 minutes.
Still - Please give us a choice CCP.
Actually most players love it, only small number of no-lifers feel buu buu (but they only trying to convince themselfs thats true), and few like You try to spread propaganda
Seriouslly... |
Captain Eliiot
Kenshin.
2
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Posted - 2013.06.08 22:05:00 -
[476] - Quote
CCP clearly by now you know anything you do is going to be ragged on by the 2% of people that are just unable to adapt to change. In the past 2 years you've made more improvements and enhancements than the 10 years together. I say keep at it and keep them coming, forget these prima donnas on here! |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
123
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Posted - 2013.06.08 22:06:00 -
[477] - Quote
my .02 isk...
I would turn off the jump animation if I could. Don't get me wrong, CCP- it's really nice and you did a great job on it. But it is laggy as hell and at least a loading bar gave you an idea when you'll be dumped in a new system. Flying in large null fleets, we trip TiDi constantly as it is. So adding to the lag isn't a great addition in my case.
The system scan upon loading grid just needs NEW COLORS. Nothing should be orange, red, blue, or purple except ships. When you jump into a system with hostiles in it, and the first thing you see is a bunch of orange/red things start popping up.....it'll raise the pucker factor a bit. I don't really care one way or the other on having that scan thing happen- just please please please change the colors.
Even with a solid rig, I still disabled most of the prettiest parts of Eve in the hopes of reducing every iota of lag I can. If things are quiet, I turn it all on because Eve is a gorgeous game. But with 600+ in local and the heavens alight with laser fire.....every second of lag is potentially your death.
Just like the captains quarters (haven't been in one since a month after Incarna came out). Something pretty and kinda neat, but completely superfluous to how I play the game. I am all for CCP adding these cool features...I just do wish for a way to opt out of them at will the way I can turn off drones or effects or the cpt's quarters. |
Maybelater Headache
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2013.06.08 22:06:00 -
[478] - Quote
...cry me a river. |
Remiel Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
1510
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:28:00 -
[479] - Quote
marVLs wrote:cheese monkey wrote:LOL, must be a kick in the d1ck that CCP try so hard on something they think is cool and most people hate it after 2 minutes.
Still - Please give us a choice CCP. Actually most players love it, only small number of no-lifers feel buu buu (but they only trying to convince themselfs thats true), and few like You try to spread propaganda Seriouslly...
While it may indeed be the case that the majority of EVE players enjoy it, it is certainly not a qualification of being a "no-lifer" if you don't. Even if it is a minority of players, that's a minority that cannot turn the effect off in lieu of a less dizzying graphical option. As pretty as it is, even I experienced a wave of dizziness this morning, and I rarely experience motion sickness. In fact, as an aerobatic pilot IRL, I can honestly say that none of my stunts have ever made me feel as dizzy as I did in that moment. Now it was certainly only for a moment, and that's not to say that when I was first learning to fly, it didn't make me dizzy, so it is probably still something that people can just get used to.
But why should anyone be required to just get used to a graphical feature that has no bearing on the actual mechanics of gameplay? Some people will experience it and go, "oh this is so pretty, worth getting used to the dizziness to keep this on all the time," but others will say, "bah, I just want to get to my next fight without feeling ill."
The effect is brilliant, but you're a complete moron if you can't accept the fact that some players would like the option to turn it off, because you are in effect excluding a group of people, be they a minority or a majority, based on circumstances that are beyond their control without the option to turn it off. This is what is commonly referred to as 'discrimination', especially if you're going to refer to them in the pejorative way you have.
The simple fact is, an option for an alternative graphic is not an unreasonable request. Some of the explosive demands being made, however, are probably as uncalled for as your pathetic insults. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Vawd
Tax Evasion Ltd
7
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Posted - 2013.06.08 23:00:00 -
[480] - Quote
Only problem I have with this new animation, is that every time I jump, my desk rises up a bit. Starting to get a bruise. |
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