Are you going to let us wait any longer CCP? We are seriously pounding our heads against each other in order to solve the whole f...ing HAC Issue, but where is your response?! This is really stretching our nerves and i'm confident that you got enough productive imput to finally reach a conclusion. So please, with all due respect, give us an honest answer or tell us right away that we are waisting our time!

And btw, reading all those comments here from people all over the world, who are desperately trying to fix something they love( and which they have not broken!)...makes me seriously proud to be an EVE player. Perhaps you give a S..t about that CCP. But i want to thank all those people who investet their precious time into this matter. THANK YOU.

How many times does it have to be said, BEING FAST ISNT BALANCE, a Badger Mk II could go 2.7K/s and it still wouldnt be a good PVP ship.

The Vaga needs DPS to capitalise on that speed, otherwise its fast, and thats all it has.

Soo is CCP RISE MIA, it`s been over 500post from plays, alot good feed back and ideas and it seems he has had nothing to say?

Saying it doesn't make it true. Remember the Dramiel? Speed + DPS is the fastest path to being distinctly overpowered in this game. Are you honestly suggesting that ship speed should be discounted when considering balance? I do however agree that if you gave a Vaga the equivalent stats of a Badger you would free up some balance room for a bit more DPS projection.

I get what you want - I really do, and I also know there is a huge segment of the risk adverse pvp crowd that also want the same thing. But I haven't heard ANY arguments as to why it would actually be good for the game. You can't have a 'pick and choose your fight, run if pressured, OMGWTFBBQPWN machine'. (okay you can but remember Cynabal, Rise is coming for you and hopefully he bitchslaps ABCs on the way by)

The proposed Vaga has insane speed together with:

• enough tank (plus some treasured flexibility on how it chooses to implement that tank)
• enough damage (with some gameplay decisions on how to apply that damage with reasonable consequences for those choices)
• is probably in one of if not the best places to really shine with the new role bonus, beefed up cap, and even extra resilience to dishonour drones

It will be a good ship to fly rather than a mandatory train for any up-and-coming leet pvpers. Barring SiSi testing it looks to be in a good place right now.

Just saw the Command Ship changes.

Welp I won't even bother with HAC's. Just jumping the shark and going with the Command Ships.

Well i guess all of us saying that the vaga bonus is ******** without a change in the slots are all wrong then , lets close the thread boys mister Rynnik has spoken.

It may be 500 posts but half of them are whines about him not posting enough. Pretty sure he has additional work to do besides forum updates and I think there might be other stuff on his plate besides just this thread (isn't there some sort of tourney on the go?) Personally I hope he is crunching numbers on Deimos tank and scratching his head right now! I am willing to bet reasoned discussion on the pros and cons of the proposed changes will bring him back sooner than random calls of 'please post, I want a pat on the back'.

Vagabond is the last ship that needs help in these announcements. With the new announcement that they'll buff shield boosters you'll be able to get 5-600 dps tank on a dread guristas large shield booster vagabond with blue pill. You can easily fit 220mm's, medium neut, large shield booster, medium cap booster and all the other stuff with a medium ACR. So basically it's like the current cap injected cynabal with a friggin 500 dps active tank that lasts for ages which is ridiculous on a kiting HAC.

One thing that has been mentioned earlier in the thread that rise really needs to look at though is the fact that AFs have 12 slots since the AF rebalance in 2011 while t1 frigates have 10. You'd expect with this rebalance for HACs to get a 2 slot advantage over the t1 cruisers which IMO would fix alot of the problems with them. Alot of them are in need of utility highs, people keep crying for a 5th mid on the vaga which IMHO would make it overpowered with the new changes. The muninn could use a 4th mid, the zealot could use a utility high for a neut to help it with its awfull anti-frig capabilities, same with the eagle and deimos after these changes. Ishtar should get a 6th low cause post 1.1 there's still not much incentive to fly it over the current awesome vexor navy issue. Sac should get a 6th low and Cerb should get a 6th med.

Round 3 when ? :D

One can hope but not sure this will ever happen.Diemost will keep the die faster crown and rails on it will be wasted isk compared to Thorax far cheaper and able to actually apply serious dmg while Deimost will keep a nice paper dmg impossible to achieve in game or in very little situations.

One thing that has been mentioned earlier in the thread that rise really needs to look at though is the fact that AFs have 12 slots since the AF rebalance in 2011 while t1 frigates have 10. You'd expect with this rebalance for HACs to get a 2 slot advantage over the t1 cruisers [...]

Thats great, the Vaga will be able to tank.

Oh wait, that completely wasn't the issue with the hull and its DPS will still be appalling.

I was looking forward to flying the Deimos after the balance pass, I will just spend my isk on a Exequror Navy Issue instead.

if (and thats a big if) the vaga gets a 5th mid , consider putting in a TC , they still give 30% moar falloff you know

Vagabond is the last ship that needs help in these announcements. With the new announcement that they'll buff shield boosters you'll be able to get 5-600 dps tank on a dread guristas large shield booster vagabond with blue pill. You can easily fit 220mm's, medium neut, large shield booster, medium cap booster and all the other stuff with a medium ACR. So basically it's like the current cap injected cynabal with a friggin 500 dps active tank that lasts for ages which is ridiculous on a kiting HAC.

CCP Fozzie:

"You are correct, that's a detail that I had missed and since the rep bonus increase from T2 to DG boosters is twice as much as the rep bonus increase from T2 to DB armor reps it probably means the DG/CN boosters need to get excluded from this change. Gonna do some more thinking and get back to you."

I wouldn't count on the dread gurista booster getting that buff. Regardless, I'm not that worried about the vaga being able to rep enough to stay alive, it's way more likely to just get straight up alphaed with it's mediocre EHP. Maybe it's speed and the MWD bonus will mitigate that enough, maybe it won't. I don't think I'll be taking the chance myself though.

I think you're doing great work overall. IMHO all the proposed changes are good so my only comment is: please don't ruin the Cynabal I trust you will manage to keep it a powerful ship, inline with its cost, that can be flow in a variety of ways -- armor, shield buffer, shield active, ac, arty, etc, and pretty please with a cherry on top don't nerf its speed. Thank you.

You KNOW pirate ships will be bad after they touch them, right?
They'll just ignore the fact you need to crosstrain, the fact you need to gather LP in NPC nullsec while being gankfood for everyone and the fact that pirate faction ships have always been set apart entirely from the rest of the ships.

Well, I wouldn't want to comment on most of them, as I for one hope that my lovely Vindi doesn't get touched at all, but as far as angel ships go, there were mentions of possibly changing falloff to tracking. They would retain their speed and agility, they just wouldn't have the range anymore. That definitely makes them weaker, but not bad.