Since I still didn't got a answer on it, is it really to much to ask for keeping the current marauders ingame as 2. marauder ship? Outside of bastion, what is not useful in hulls you want to move a lot or while relaying on remote repair, the new ones are worse for most applications and the changes make the hulls pointless in nearly every of the old niches where they where competitive or slightly better than faction BS.

Since I still didn't got a answer on it, is it really to much to ask for keeping the current marauders ingame as 2. marauder ship? ....

Zero buffs you say? Surely you must be mistaken?

Well if you insist
- Reduced mass
- Improved inertia modifier (I think)
- Improved shield capacity
- Improved capacitor capacity
- Improved targeting range
- Improved Scan res
- Improved sig radius
- Extra high slot
- Almost double PG
- Decreased MJD activation time

Now I might be crazy but those seem like buffs to me? Might need a 3rd party to corroborate.

3. Paladin optimal is too high in B-mode, it's simply not needed - change to tracking.

let me go 1 by 1

- Reduced mass - More than coutnered by speed reduction
- Improved inertia modifier (I think) - aligns a bit better because of mass. Effectively not usable because speed reduction takes you more than that.

- Improved shield capacity - Almost irrelevant, as I said vargur can already shug any damage incommign from any level 4 as if it was a joke

- Improved capacitor capacity- since the only things using capacitor were the tank (That was already overpowered for its usage) and the prop mod.. that now is less useful and you need to run it for longer time, effectively makign you use MORE cap during the mission

- Improved targeting range - You mean you can now lock stuff way outside any possible engagement range of your AC? Imrpessively useful

- Improved Scan res - Ok this is a boost, small sicne marauders can already lock so many targets taht you have a queue of targets that never empties... so it can save you 2 seconds at start of mission

- Improved sig radius - Again, vargur coudl already ignore a level 4 damage level!!!

- Extra high slot - to fit what? the useles bastion mode? yet ANOTHER tractor bem? LOL
-
Almost double PG - the first 5% are useful, the rest is overkil lsince no one will use arties. So is a joke in fact.

- Decreased MJD activation time - As I sated this is the only real bonus the ship got.. And its almost useles since the old vargur used MWD AND AB on the best way to run missions.

Doesn't matter, you said there were zero buffs. You were wrong or lying or being a drama queen. Wonder what else you've said is just complete and utter BS? You obviously don't care about the truth.

Also a LOT of those buffs are really really good and will make a huge difference in PvP for example. Just because you lack the imagination or creativity to see how those buffs can be used to improve both PvE and PvP doesn't mean others are bound by the same limitations.

Playing with EFT settings its telling me my Rubicon T2 Tach Paladin in Bastion Mode (1x TC) gets me 233KM Optimal and 40km Falloff with Aurora. I would agree that is obscene range not many people will use / need. It would take almost 3 minutes and 3 MJD jumps to put me that far out from a static target. Tracking would be MUCH better and would be much needed.

I agree with what your saying, the last thing a Bastioned up Paladin needs is more optimal, but to give it tracking would step on the toes of the Nightmare, which goes against the goal of the changes - marauders have the edge in tank and projection whilst the pirate BS's win out in absolute DPS and application.

Plus if your using Aurora your doing it wrong, INMF tachs and conflag pulses are where its at.

bombard high sec POSes at long range

I suppose that maybe each of these ships has a niche situation where it is better than another ship.

Golem - POS bashing
Paladin - Counter sniper
Vargur - CQB - I.E., fit ACs and burn close range targets
Kronos - Kinda the all around ship... The jack of all trades.

Maybe we can nerf the Paladin as well then everyone will be unhappy with Marauders...

There was a brief discussion on the Test server today about the Bastion bonuses and about hull bonuses and DPS projection with short-range weapons. The Paladin's ridiculous projection (95km optimals with Scorch and two optimal-scripted TCs in Bastion) boils down to that baked-in optimal bonus on the hull.

Remove the Paladin's optimal bonus and give it a tracking bonus like the other Marauders have. Then take the stacking penalty off the Bastion module. Just like that, short-range weapons become just slightly better in Bastion without projection on lasers becoming ridiculous.

I agree with what your saying, the last thing a Bastioned up Paladin needs is more optimal, but to give it tracking would step on the toes of the Nightmare, which goes against the goal of the changes - marauders have the edge in tank and projection whilst the pirate BS's win out in absolute DPS and application.

Plus if your using Aurora your doing it wrong, INMF tachs and conflag pulses are where its at.

Good job, Arthur! You've shown that you know how to completely remove the context from what someone is saying by only quoting the part of it that's to your strategic advantage and leaving the next part (with all the meaning in it) unquoted. You totally ignored the next paragraph, didn't you? Here, I'll post it for you again:



I even added some formatting to help you see it.

Also, I've been flying a Vargur around on SiSi lately and I'm not sure what all the fuss is about regarding mobility. They don't seem all that slow compared to a Tempest.

Doesn't matter, you said there were zero buffs. You were wrong or lying or being a drama queen. Wonder what else you've said is just complete and utter BS? You obviously don't care about the truth.

Also a LOT of those buffs are really really good and will make a huge difference in PvP for example. Just because you lack the imagination or creativity to see how those buffs can be used to improve both PvE and PvP doesn't mean others are bound by the same limitations.

If Marauders are all about projection and not damage application, why is the Paladin the only one that doesn't have an application bonus?

Kronos: Tracking
Vargur: Tracking
Golem: Target Painter

BEcause range effectively is a damage application bonus, sicne you can use higher damage crystals and acn even use PULSE weapons.


The range bonus is the MOST POWERFUL bonus of ALL the marauders!!!!

Good job, Arthur! You've shown that you know how to completely remove the context from what someone is saying by only quoting the part of it that's to your strategic advantage and leaving the next part (with all the meaning in it) unquoted. You totally ignored the next paragraph, didn't you?

I wont do that.

If not that then the opposite in relation to the hyperthetical you espouse is otherwise the alternative of not the opposite of the unreal value of the inverse statement , isnt it !

Oh and FYI your not the thread police I'll post Golem/Bastion/RHML points here as
1) I want to
2) its the more relevant thread.

If you thing that RHML bonusing is going to make overpower then you are insane, that is if that is what your saying, who the f knows tbh.

RHML is less powerful to start with than either Torp or Cruise.
It needs the same bonusing on the hull to keep it's power in ratio with other BS launchers.
Otherwise its not an option and Sandbox means options.

Kronos flyer would be rightly miffed if 350's and D250's did not get bonused removing choice.

Forgot to mention something important - Battleships with Damage bonuses (like Raven and Typhoon rate of fire) will have those bonuses applied to the new launchers. Any bonuses to damage projection or application will NOT be applied (such as Raven missile velocity or Typhoon explosion velocity).

It seems fairly clear that the speed reductions all but limits the Marauders to a long-range role. To make them slightly more useful in short-range rolls, I would suggest the following:

GÇó Increase the base speed of the Kronos to 115 m/sec (-5) and the Vargur to 120 m/sec (-10).
GÇó Replace the Golem's Marauder TP bonus with a 5% rate of fire bonus (in-line with the T1 Raven bonuses)
GÇó Replace the Vargur's Marauder tracking bonus with a 5% damage bonus (in-line with the T1 Tempest bonuses).

If Marauders are all about projection and not damage application, why is the Paladin the only one that doesn't have an application bonus?

Kronos: Tracking
Vargur: Tracking
Golem: Target Painter

are you serious? so golem and vargur magically gets a 25% bonus to dps ? how is that balancing? can you imagine how OP that sounds? the only reason tempest, raven gets a ROF is because they have less guns, missile bays.

are you serious? so golem and vargur magically gets a 25% bonus to dps ? how is that balancing? can you imagine how OP that sounds? the only reason tempest, raven gets a ROF is because they have less guns, missile bays.

Close range....yet invalidate golem's close range weapon system... seriously? How that would be in line with the other non-missile setups using close range turrets?

Paladin has a damage bonus.
Vargur has a RoF bonus.
Kronos has a damage bonus.
Golem has a ...velocity bonus.

I'll add a few things to what Dav said ...

It would make sense to refer to the Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher thread if things were consistent. But they are not. Let me point a few things out that might help you see why we want a specific notice in _this_ thread.

RHML is less powerful to start with than either Torp or Cruise.
It needs the same bonusing on the hull to keep it's power in ratio with other BS launchers.
Otherwise its not an option and Sandbox means options.

Kronos flyer would be rightly miffed if 350's and D250's did not get bonused removing choice.

Yeah, but don't bother pointing that out... because it's "not fair".

i think dev should half the distance of all cruise missiles that wayou will appreciate the velocity bonus on the golem more instead of the current wahhh too much range i dont need. we need rof instead!!

Please. The velocity bonus gain on the Golem is equivalent to an extra T1 hydraulic rig that any T1 or Faction hull can run. Without having to remain stationary.