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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
270
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:09:00 -
[2041] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
That's great to hear.
CCP Ytterbium wrote: We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons.
The ship is now loaded with bonuses that apply at wildly different ranges (webs at 10-12km, tractors at 40-48km, 100km MJD's, thus negating the need for the web bonus and overshooting the tractor bonus). Some will say versatility, others will say lack of focus. This is Typhoon Syndrome. I don't even know how to make suggestions anymore. You're clearly dead set on this Bastion on the Marauders, and it's two steps forward, two steps back for the hulls themselves.
For everyone's sake: take a step back. More Grid, CPU, capacitor, T2 resists, range, scan res, less sig radius: all good changes. Extra mass, lower HP, lower speed, smaller drone bay, removing tank bonuses: bad changes. Making bad changes just to introduce a new module that kind of makes up for them is just ugly. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:11:00 -
[2042] - Quote
*Cracks Knuckles*
Zeus Maximo wrote: Your tank will be greater than what it is now as the bastion bonus is huge. Therefore you will be able to fend off more when the time comes.
45% more active tank (over current amounts), zero buffer tank for going into bastion. That is paltry against PvP gangs and Gank squads.
Quote: Most pirate bs's are 1 billion isk whereas the marauders are much cheaper. Your resists will be greater than what they are now and the new web bonus will allow you to make up for your smaller drone bay. 80% web bonus, or whatever it is, will allow most guns to track and any size drone to hit perfectly. We are talking about applied dps here.
Pirate BS's range from 450 million to 1 billion. Marauders are around 1.25 billion each. And how why should I have to wait until something is 12km away before I can track it. Putting on my (admittedly rather shabby) PvP had, how the hell am I supposed to get within 12km of anything when my base speed is 100m/s?
Quote:You still get the tracking and range bonus with the bastion mode. If you don't want to use the web bonus for PVE then don't put a web on your ship. Silly complaint here. PVPers WILL use the web bonus. The range bonus will be great when in bastion mode so you can shoot stuff that your gang has tackled a few k away outside of point/web range. There is no tracking bonus in Bastion. There SHOULD be, especially now. But there isn't.
Quote:The new t2 resists are pretty big EHP buff. Not. Big EHP buff against explosive damage. Nothing against EM or Thermal. Hey! Guess what the rats I always fight use?
And don't forget the HP reductions each ship is getting.
These changes suck. The failure of your best attempt to justify them is a testament to that.
|
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:15:00 -
[2043] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:PVE people need to understand that these new changes Balance the marauder update to fit PVPers too.
The first update only helped PVE engagements.
This second one now benefits PVPers and still gives PVErs a boost. These (new) changes are huge nerf to the PvE capabilities of this ship. There is simply no way around pointing that out.
Not only are Pirate Battleships now indisputably superior (much higher DPS, base speed, almost exact same tank) but many Navy Battleships are too. All for EWAR immunity that frankly I only need once ever five or six missions if that.
If these changes go through as currently proposed, I'll be flying a Nightmare instead of a Paladin. It will hit harder, tank more, move faster and have more drones.
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Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
485
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:18:00 -
[2044] - Quote
isn't it great that CCP don't even ask us if we would like such drastic changes they just make them Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
310
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:21:00 -
[2045] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:You can actually use the Paladin in wormholes now without immobilizing yourself. Sleeper BS missiles have an exp velocity of 60m/sec and do pure exp/kin damage so with an AB fitted and Amarr racial resists they basically do no damage whatsoever. Sleepless Upholders, the only BS that aren't favored towards exp/kin damage, have 0.017 tracking, you can actually speed tank their lasers in an ABing BS.
It's perfectly viable to run C3s in a 1250 DPS setup with three heat sinks, AB, web, two tracking computers, and a 4-slot tank. You don't need to root yourself so you're not much more vulnerable to ganks than a T3 is.
Agree. It seems to me to be a sensible evolution in the right direction. Broadening the appeal of the marauder in more kinds of space.
No, you no longer have immobile mega-tank, but you now have excellent normal tank, mobility, anti-support ability AND the ability to receive remote reps efficiently.
Marauders like this could, you know... maraud!
+1
Winter marauders - Mutant Ninja Space Turtles
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Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
431
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:21:00 -
[2046] - Quote
Comparing the old PVE marauders to these changes: what is worse?
smaller drone bay? |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:21:00 -
[2047] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:45% more active tank (over current amounts), zero buffer tank for going into bastion. That is paltry against PvP gangs and Gank squads.
Your "buffer" is better than it was with the 1.0 version, as rep bonuses don't count as buffer and 125% T2 resists are better than 120% buffer.
Quote:Not. Big EHP buff against explosive damage. Nothing against EM or Thermal. Hey! Guess what the rats I always fight use?
And don't forget the HP reductions each ship is getting.
These changes suck. The failure of your best attempt to justify them is a testament to that.
Ok, and you're also forgetting the optimal range bonus, the gigantic capacitor bonus, (Paladin has 12,500 capacitor!) fitting bonuses, and the fact that you can actually field a superb tank without rooting yourself, thus allowing the ship to be used in null and wormholes with the same degree of safety as every other ship, except it can salvage and loot the sites while running them AND has an MJD for added safety so it's immune to ganking if the ganker doesn't have a scram.
You are aware that 200m/hour from nullsec anoms is possible with these, right? All that free NPC BS loot and salvage adds up fast. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
50
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:21:00 -
[2048] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:isn't it great that CCP don't even ask us if we would like such drastic changes they just make them I'm going to be fair to CCP: They asked for feedback, and well over half of it was people bitching about their incursion webs and T2 Resists.
Many of us who supported the changes just tipped the hat and walked away from the thread. You can't blame them for thinking this change was going to be popular.
But seriously, CCP: The first idea was way, way better. Bring back the old Bastion. |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
431
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:22:00 -
[2049] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:isn't it great that CCP don't even ask us if we would like such drastic changes they just make them
I approve of these changes :) |
Shinzhi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:27:00 -
[2050] - Quote
So, they are going to finally give us T2 resist instead of the 30% across the board boost from bastion. Its a pity that since I use my paladin for pve in missions, and 90% of the time I'm fighting sansha/blood raiders, those T2 resist buffs are totally USELESS.
If they declare 90% webs overpowered, then why leave them on the serpentis ships??
The 2nd iteration, i can live with, but I will be honest, removing 37.5% rep bonus on the paladin is very upsetting. I know its made up for when bastion'd, but what about when moving around? I really don't like them removing that.
DId CCP ever consider giving the marauders FLAT resists like that gift battlecruiser has??
The paladin is my main pve ship, has been for long time, and these changes are really stressing me out. |
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Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:32:00 -
[2051] - Quote
Quote:Your "buffer" is better than it was with the 1.0 version, as rep bonuses don't count as buffer and 125% T2 resists are better than 120% buffer. Someone is forgetting the loss of the 30% omni resists of 1.0...
Quote:Ok, and you're also forgetting the optimal range bonus, the gigantic capacitor bonus, (Paladin has 12,500 capacitor!) fitting bonuses, and the fact that you can actually field a superb tank without rooting yourself, thus allowing the ship to be used in null and wormholes with the same degree of safety as every other ship, except it can salvage and loot the sites while running them AND has an MJD for added safety so it's immune to ganking if the ganker doesn't have a scram.
Yes, it can finally project damage just as well as an Apocalypse. And yes, the new cap is boss. I like MJD's. I even wrote a guide on how to triangulate using them. However:
In return: It's mobility and tank have both been significantly nerfed. As a direct consequence, it's survivability and Isk/Hour have been nerfed. To me, a PvE mission runner, these changes are much worse than the original iteration.
An immobile tank I wouldn't need if you weren't gimping my current one, and lacking any true burst survivability (read: ganks) paired with an absolutely pointless web bonus. It just... sucks. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
486
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:34:00 -
[2052] - Quote
webs need a nerf 60% is strong too begin with then giving serpentis and blood raider 90% webs are way OP.. what's the point of increasing mobility across the board whilst leaving webs so strong it seems counter productive.
T2 resists need sorting out... they need to be more omni/ fill gaping holes better otherwise they don't necessarily help the ship.. Minmatar always getting more overall resists is just unbalanced and smacks of favoritism towards them..
T2 ships don't need to have T2 resists either they are meant to be specialised at something but adding really strong resists seems to be more of a HAC thing you know resilience .. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:35:00 -
[2053] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:Comparing the old PVE marauders to these changes: what is worse?
smaller drone bay? 37.5% tank nerf. 50% drone bandwidth nerf. 25% speed nerf. 50% mass nerf. 10% HP nerf. 25% web nerf. |
Big rEy
ROMANIA Renegades C0VEN
12
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:42:00 -
[2054] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote: 37.5% tank nerf. 50% drone bandwidth nerf. 25% speed nerf. 50% mass nerf. 10% HP nerf. 25% web nerf.
Yeah...and they wanted to make them better. lol
Always I will be ready to meet the next challenge even if is bigger that me ! |
TheFace Asano
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:42:00 -
[2055] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:TheFace Asano wrote: Now there isn't much use for the bastion module with this iteration. You still have a large increase to local tank, but you won't be able to fend off much before dying.
Your tank will be greater than what it is now as the bastion bonus is huge. Therefore you will be able to fend off more when the time comes. TheFace Asano wrote: -1 for me, the original proposal looked better. I think most people would just use the pirate bs instead for PVE, the utility highs and tracking are not worth the risk of 1 billion + isk for just the local tank boost which is unecessary for most normal situations anyway, and you won't be able to fend off a gang for long without the immense gain of resists. They are now all too slow or don't have enough drone bay to PVE competitively with the Pirate BS either.
Most pirate bs's are 1 billion isk whereas the marauders are much cheaper. Your resists will be greater than what they are now and the new web bonus will allow you to make up for your smaller drone bay. 80% web bonus, or whatever it is, will allow most guns to track and any size drone to hit perfectly. We are talking about applied dps here. TheFace Asano wrote: The web bonus is counter productive for the bastion mode as well as the mode gives you increased range. Whats the use of the range bonus if the ship has to be much closer to use its web? This proposal will keep the ships shelved for everything I think, and those who do use them will only use the bastion module to see the cool animation or AFTER having already been locked down by a gang to slow down getting killed.
You still get the tracking and range bonus with the bastion mode. If you don't want to use the web bonus for PVE then don't put a web on your ship. Silly complaint here. PVPers WILL use the web bonus. The range bonus will be great when in bastion mode so you can shoot stuff that your gang has tackled a few k away outside of point/web range. TheFace Asano wrote: The original was pretty close, just needed some tweaking and less ability to be ganked while solo.
The new t2 resists are pretty big EHP buff.
fitted these ships are over 1 billion and the hulls close to a billion.
The web bonus is within 12km, there is no tracking bonus during bastion mode, outside of web range, the range bonus the bastion module gives is mute and no longer of any use. The web bonus is cool, but doesn't fit with the Bastion Module itself. Also in a gang your probably not going to use the bastion module without a group of these together, then again you would just jump them in to point blank, bastion, web then wreak havoc. A damage bonus/ tracking bonus in bastion mode makes more sense than the range with the current iteration, however places the ships more conflict with the better tracking the Pirate BS already have.
-37.5 boost and -30 resists on shield / armor/hull is better than the t2 resists when bastion is on and gave the ships a weakness while off.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
113
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:43:00 -
[2056] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes.
Welp, apparently I shouldn't play poker. I'm going to love playing around with these bonuses but I think it's a bit OP. |
Shinzhi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:44:00 -
[2057] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote:Comparing the old PVE marauders to these changes: what is worse?
smaller drone bay? 37.5% tank nerf. 50% drone bandwidth nerf. 25% speed nerf. 50% mass nerf. 10% HP nerf. 25% web nerf.
outside of bastion mode: This ^
especially if your in amarr space doing L4 missiions or sites, and fighting EM/Therm enemies. The T2 resist give nothing to EM/Therm. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1263
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:48:00 -
[2058] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:isn't it great that CCP don't even ask us if we would like such drastic changes they just make them
Something about a player elected council... you know representative vrs direct democracy...
....
though with the resist bonus being taken away from teh bastion bonus... i would really like to see it gain something more... please add a bonus to target sectrum breaker mod... like take away the sig resolution penilty...
that would make the mod pretty good for pvp...
also can you up the rep amount to 137.5% as this would make up for the lost rep bonus... also it would add the ability for a kronos to be a shield rep ship or a vargur to be a armor rep ship...
i am sad to see my vargur loose its rep bonus...
like really sad...
please boost the bastion mod... to include it! There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
487
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:52:00 -
[2059] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Harvey James wrote:isn't it great that CCP don't even ask us if we would like such drastic changes they just make them Something about a player elected council... you know representative vrs direct democracy... .... though with the resist bonus being taken away from teh bastion bonus... i would really like to see it gain something more... please add a bonus to target sectrum breaker mod... like take away the sig resolution penilty... that would make the mod pretty good for pvp... also can you up the rep amount to 137.5% as this would make up for the lost rep bonus... also it would add the ability for a kronos to be a shield rep ship or a vargur to be a armor rep ship... i am sad to see my vargur loose its rep bonus... like really sad... please boost the bastion mod... to include it!
well since the CSM members are mainly null sec large alliance members perhaps it explains the seemingly more RR friendly marauders Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Sollana
FireStar Inc Get Off My Lawn
241
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:54:00 -
[2060] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Harvey James wrote:isn't it great that CCP don't even ask us if we would like such drastic changes they just make them I'm going to be fair to CCP: They asked for feedback, and well over half of it was people bitching about their incursion webs and T2 Resists. Many of us who supported the changes just tipped the hat and walked away from the thread. You can't blame them for thinking this change was going to be popular. But seriously, CCP: The first idea was way, way better. Bring back the old Bastion.
dear CCP,
the carebears have ruined what I thought was an outstanding change for a rarely used ship.
the games need to be made diverse, different, exciting..... bastion mode in an anomaly in null sec space would be awesome...
the ship would be used for pos defence and other much fun things..
FFS dont give in the the feeble minded morons that dont even use 0.0
If the CSM like the idea then use it... ignore the forum trolls |
|
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
32
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:56:00 -
[2061] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes.
|
TheFace Asano
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:57:00 -
[2062] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote:Comparing the old PVE marauders to these changes: what is worse?
smaller drone bay? 37.5% tank nerf. 50% drone bandwidth nerf. 25% speed nerf. 50% mass nerf. 10% HP nerf. 25% web nerf. You get a 100% rep amount boost You gained a 80% web for slowing down smaller targets Old kronos mass = 101,800,000 kg New kronos mass = 113,160,000 kg fit propulsion all marauders get a web bonus New is obviously better than the old Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
outside of bastion mode: This ^
especially if your in amarr space doing L4 missiions or sites, and fighting EM/Therm enemies. The T2 resist give nothing to EM/Therm.
Fill the resist hole like you would with any other ship..... Buy modules
There are too many modules already these ships need to perform within the bonus structure. For a Golem you are going to fit a MJD, Web, Painter, and now more resist mods, possibly an afterburner using up 3+ mids for every fit which reduces the flexibility the original concept was trying to open up. It is all over the place. This iteration lacks focus.
Get rid the tractor bonus, increase dps while in bastion or revert back to the original and tweak it. Still no real reason to use the bastion if I use all the other bonus's to effect. 100% tank and ewar immunity is great, but if I am in web range, all those things become mute except the local rep bonus. If your backed by logi, then there is no use for that either. It won't increase the uses for the bastion.
|
Wizzard117
Viziam Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 17:58:00 -
[2063] - Quote
Golem's web bonus is bad and illogical bcuz
1. Golem already have expl velocity bonus which somewhat helps to apply damage against fast targets. Do not really need a 2nd bonus of the same group 2. Cruise missiles can fly quite a long even with all4 skills and hit their targets for equal dmg regardless of the actual distance to them. However webs works in close range compared to that so that benefits only close range combat. Does not benefit the cruise setup that much. 3. We may not always want to shoot at close targets, we sometimes may want to let our light drones do the job without wasting ammo and without extra web micro. With the skills, drones may even kill a bunch of targets faster than {ammo_recharge,target_painter,webifier} modules cycle. 4. It looks a little bit better in a torpedo Golem, but - torpedo Golem looks for a close fight - with proposed speed nerf I believe even carriers can easily keep Golem at range of 50 km, and theres no way it can jump close enough to fire torpedoes. To approach Golem will have to use AB and be slower than every other BS with AB, or fit and MWD and be slower than an average frigate with no propulsion module at all or any cruiser with AB |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:00:00 -
[2064] - Quote
People, stop talking about level 4 missions. These are not for level 4 missions. Please do not waste six months training up Racial Battleship V, AWU V, and Marauders V for goddamn level fours. Level fours are retardedly easy. You don't need T2 resists and 100% tank bonus to survive level fours. Get a max gank navy BS or pirate BS for L4s, they do more DPS and the fact that their tank is so much weaker is totally irrelevant because L4s do crap for damage to begin with.
You use these ships when you need to tank AND deal DPS. WIth these, you lose 5-10% DPS relative to using a pirate BS but gain an immense amount of tank. In L4s you don't need the tank, so just stick with the pirate BS. You want to bring these out for warping to an anom at 0 and having 8 BS and 8 battlecruisers spawn all within 10km of you and aggroing. In L4s the spawns are spread out and aggro piecemeal. Use them in wormholes where you get heavily neuted and even light drones get switched to. |
marVLs
396
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:00:00 -
[2065] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes.
This changes are better than old for PVP, and PVE in most case, but....
Now bastion is even more uselessit will tank less thanks to removal of 7.5% tanking bonus per level
Ok we got cool ewar bonuses (useful in pvp, incursions) but still, without remote reps, smaller active tanking than before no one will activate it in pvp, because for what? You use MJD to jump into enemies, and activate Bastion to show them You know how to suicide? ... It should be You jump to enemies to pwnge them (thanks to damage bonus, range bonus, and web) , so they ruuuun. OP? Where? You will be able to catch only one dude, and even not sure to kill him, because they can use remote reps, and even without it they may take the challange and kill You, because You can't move, and You tank not so well, so it will can lead to cool situations.
In missions? Meh tank is enought for them without this mode, maybe low/null anoms. Srly it's a waste of idea without raw damage bonus on bastion mode.
Still...
tractor range should be at least doubled A little more scan res needed
Golem problem... Now with web and painter it desperately need to be torp boat as primary I mean ok it will be in pvp, but what about pve. Still cruise missiles will be better, so with Bastion damage mode, give missiles 50% of range instead of current 25%...
Overall a little better, still need some tweaks but... without damage bonus bastion is useless |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:02:00 -
[2066] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote: fit propulsion
...
Fill the resist hole like you would with any other ship..... Buy modules
The new Marauders are better because we can fit modules to compensate for the nerfs... With all those extra slots they didn't give us.
The Version 1 Bastion was great because it allowed you to use more lows for tracking/damage mods without hurting survivability. Now we need to fit MORE tank in the lows (to compensate for 37.5% tank nerf) and more prop in the mid (just to make these ships flyable.) Both of these mods will come at the expense of Tracking, Projection and Damage mods. Slowing down mission running, just to get the ship up to it's current survivability. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:03:00 -
[2067] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes. Welp, apparently I shouldn't play poker. I'm going to love playing around with these bonuses but I think it's a bit OP. Well, except for the mass penalty being removed, was kinda figuring the Bump-Battleship from hell wasn't going to last given the ability to instantly crash a C6 with ~3-4 of these. If it had gone live it would have been removed the first time someone sent a Freighter flying 100km off the 4-4 undock. Read back a few pages. I think I make a compelling case for these changes being rather abysmal.
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Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2013.09.04 18:03:00 -
[2068] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:People, stop talking about level 4 missions. These are not for level 4 missions. Yes. They. Are. |
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2013.09.04 18:08:00 -
[2069] - Quote
Arya Greywolf wrote:
Dear CCP Ytterbium,
What is your reasoning for giving the Vargur a larger drone bay than the Paladin? I don't see any compelling evidence why it should be this way. It should either be even or the Paladin should have the larger drone bay -- for the following reasons:
1) The Vargur has better innate tracking through its bonuses.
2) The Vargur has better tracking through the innate values of autocannons.
3) The Vargur is faster.
4) Amarr are generally 2nd in drones armament (whilst I admit it is the weakest point, it's still one CCP has considered and used as reasoning in the past to justify drone bay allocation).
The points listed above (especially the first 3) lead to one conclusion, to wit: That the Vargur has the greater ability to deal with smaller targets on the field than the Paladin. Why does this matter? Because drones on Battleships are, many times, the one weapon system that saves them from frigates and other targets that get under their tracking.
This is the primary reason why the Talos has a 25 drone bay and the other ABCs do not: it has the shortest range - by far - of all the ABCs and thus the full flight of ECM drones or Warrior IIs give it the extra protection it needs. With the Paladin and Vargur, this range disparity is dissimilar and nearly non-existent. Whilst the Paladin has an optimal bonus, the Vargur has a falloff bonus (and we all know how much falloff Barrage has). Further, with the Bastion module, both boats receive a substantial bonus to optimal and falloff.
And so, my point still stands that the Paladin is more susceptible to smaller targets and therefore should have a larger (or at least equal) drone bay as compared to the Vargur.
Thus, I see no compelling reason why the Paladin should not have the 50mb drone bay and the Vargur a 25mb drone bay -- or at the least they should be equal.
Thanks for reading this, cheers.
CCP Ytterbium Please respond. The reasoning still stands seeing as both Vargur and Paladin have the same web bonus now, essentially making it a wash.
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Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
34
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Posted - 2013.09.04 18:09:00 -
[2070] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:some of us liked the 1st iteration more :(
the new version is almost identical to the original - the bastion mode still behaves the same still having high resists and great local tank. Only now, the regular mode isn't nerfed to compensate. Furthermore, in situations where you would attempt to leave bastion mode in order to get reped, your resists don't go down, meaning its a whole lot more possible to accept reps. |
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