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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Jack C Hughes
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:00:00 -
[2461] - Quote
Nam Dnilb wrote:Jack C Hughes wrote:If you are afraid of probs, I will tell you you should not worry too much. you need time to scan, to warp the fleet and to apply the dps. With 56 of WJD cooldown the new Marauder should have enough time to react to it. Scan time with a Scan Aquisition Array II is five seconds and we have custom probe formations now. Good luck!
no matter how fast is your scan, the fleet needs to warp. If a 100BS fleet is on short range scan but not on grid, why should marauder engage? That is simply silly. As silly as knowing there is capital ships waiting for you and you still jump your single carrier in. If not on short range scan you really need some time to warp to the feild. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
778
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:02:00 -
[2462] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:dexington wrote:I'm more then a little skeptical about the web bonus, especially on the kronos. You're skeptical about it on the kronos? How about the web bonus on the vargur? 'Here you go, have a bonus to a module that's going to cut into your tank, and by the way, if you were thinking of armor tanking it? You don't have the slots.' And now any tanking bonuses marauders had outside of bastion is gone, too. Seriously, screw the web bonuses. They're ridiculous to begin with. You can't hit frigates? Drop some drones on 'em. You want to whine and moan for a bigger drone bay, go for it, but if all you're going to cry about is the web bonus? Buy a damned Vindicator and be done with it. The ship you're looking to fly is over there, it's a Pirate ship, and the second Battleship skill will take you less time and cost less than training up Marauders anyway. But no no, we can't possibly only have one Megathron with a ridiculous web velocity bonus and extremely potent bonuses to its blasters, now can we?
I don't know the other marauders very well, but i do own and occasionally fly a Kronos, but i can see what you mean about not wanting to give up tank to fit a web. But i think it goes beyond just shield tanking, i mean why not just fit a tracking computer which with scripts just seem more useful.
The main reason i particularly don't like the web bonus on the Kronos, is because the Vindicator already has the same ability, just with a better skill bonus. You have two ships with the same hull and close to the same price tag, one is just better then the other in every way that really matters.
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Hayman Wakefield
Trans-Stellar Salvage Shipping and Securities
4
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:10:00 -
[2463] - Quote
Please let there be a 3rd iteration, this is just plain bizarre, taking the tanking bonuses that made the ships good in the first place and replacing it with some micky mouse web bonus on all the ships, just stop it. The T2 resists are horrible because they promptly open resist holes right where the ship's common faction rat damage type is meaning you have to use even more tanking modules.
They really just needed some fitting, speed, sensor and EHP love and maybe extending the tractor range to make it worthwhile against bringing a Noctis. Go back to the start look at the MJD idea and think about how you could turn them into MJD blipping (reactivation and spool up reductions); tanky ships with good damage projection, that concept would work pretty well in both PVE and PVP. These latest changes just makes me suspect your morning croissant is being spiked.
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Patrice Macmahon
The Lost Minmatar Legion LEX LEGIONEM
21
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:17:00 -
[2464] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense to combine the tanking with some sort of short-range bonus (like the web I guess) for situations when you are more likely to be taking heavy damage? Or keep the long-range bonus and combine that with something that more closely compliments a sniper role? Hell! Make two different types of Bastion module, one for each play-style so nobody can throw a fit.
Bing!
Bonus and DPS numbers would need to be adjusted and addressed, but here is a simplified revised "Murader" plan stamp.
Murader
Role Bonus: Can Fit Bastion Modules 100% Bonus to large X weapon system 100% bonus to tractor range
T2 Resistances
[Appropriate Grid / CPU rebalancing to fit 4 largest caliber guns, plus appropriate fitting]
BS Skill Bonus [Total bonus] +10 / 15 / +20% active rep bonus (2% / 3% or 4% per level) +25% bonus to large X weapon system (5% per level)
Murader Skill +37.5% Bonus to tracking / explosion velocity / Cap? (7.5% per level) +37.5% Bonus to range (Optimal / Falloff) (7.5% per level)
Web bonus is gone off the hull and moved to the Bastion Module "B"
Bastion Modules: Ship is Imobile Ship cannot warp Ship cannot jump or dock Ship cannot receive external assistance Ship is immune to ewar
Bastion Module A - "Long Tom"
Cycle time : 120 seconds
+200% (x3 multiplier) to damage +100% (0.5 multiplier penalty) to rate of fire +20% to optimal range (Fall off for minmitar) +10% bonus to tracking?
[This would double effective DPS at range and give significant drawbacks. It's like having permanent high powered T2 ammo grafted on your ship. But when it hits... ouchie]
Bastion Module B - "Berserker"
Cycle time: 60 Seconds
-20% penalty to damage -50% bonus to rate of fire (2x multiplier) +100% Bonus to tracking (explosion velocity / golem) + 50% bonus to stasis webber velocity (or web range) + 15% bonus to fall off (optimal for minmitar)
[And here we have our ultimate brawlers, for you auto cannon / blaster / pulse lazor / torpedo slingin hot shots. Shorter cycle time would allow for a pick and move moment as the fight unfolds]
This sort of set up would need a lot of tweaking to get the numbers right. But I think the essence is there. Murader Pilots keep the essence of their mission boats, while adding in the missing damage quotient and role niche they need at the cost of going kamakazi.]
This is fairly balanced, because the price you pay for locking yourself down is forgoing any GTFO moments and pure immobility. In PVE if your tank is failing not only do you have to wait for the triage mode to spool off, you then have to get momentum and align to save the ship. In PVP, if you go triage you have 60 seconds where a primary call from a significant force can kill you (Neuts or sheer alpha damage).
Might be something to seriously consider. -á"Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki."-á |
Doc Buddy
Nomad Mining Company
0
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:31:00 -
[2465] - Quote
Not so sure about the whole sitting stationary in a level 4 with a marauder. I thought the point, and fun of them is to move around.
I also was under the impression that one of the main roles of the Marauder was the tractor bonus for salvaging on the fly. If you continue with the theme of salvaging a bonus to salvage drone speed would be nice.
For the most part they seem ok the way are now for PVE. It would be nice if they could put out a bit more dps.
All the talk in this thread about turning them into mini-dreads makes one think wouldnGÇÖt be easier to turn them into a pure PVP ship and have CCP tell CONCORD that Dreadnaughts/capitals are now legal in Hi-Sec?
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Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
222
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:38:00 -
[2466] - Quote
dexington wrote: The new kronos seem like a weak version of the vindicator, weak damage, no mobility and weak webs.
That is really shortsighted.
The Kronos got a couple drawbacks (weaker webs, smaller dronebay, less raw damage and weak sensors) but in advance, it got 4 utility highs, tech-II-resist, tracking and rangebonus, aswell as a reduced cooldown on MJDs.
I see a variet of situations where I'd rather want a kronos as it is propsed compared to a Windicator.
Though I'm totally ignoring pve, just looking at pvp-qualities. For small gang, the Kronos seems a whole lot more useful as currently proposed compared to the rather straight and narrow Vindi. Even losing a little raw damage.
Doc Buddy wrote: All the talk in this thread about turning them into mini-dreads makes one think wouldnGÇÖt be easier to turn them into a pure PVP ship and have CCP tell CONCORD that Dreadnaughts/capitals are now legal in Hi-Sec?
It's mostly that people complaining marauders becoming minidreads never flew one themselves. They make for as good minidreads as bombers make for an AB-web-scram-breacher. Now actively requesting any faction / new faction willing to produce these:-áhttp://eohgames.com/labs/Ships/Vanir%20Federation%20Talos-á |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
113
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:39:00 -
[2467] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:No, talking about missions where faction determines what type of damage you deal if you have the option to choose. To some extent it also determines where you're going to mission with a particular ship. When grinding in Amarr space quite often I had on offer missions against Angels, in Gallente space Blood Raiders and Sansha are quite common and bloody Drones are everywhere. Unless you cherry-pick missions you always have to be prepared to deal with every damage type.
Okay, Kronos and Golem can tank Serpentis/Guristas for free, but for anything else they have to be well prepared. While on Vargur I used to fit only one hardener for major profile and slapped invuln for good measure and it worked every time, epic arcs (all four) included.
They may like to but it's not what they are always given.
Quote:On top of this the Kronos and Golem both have high Kin and Therm resists which also makes up the vast majority of resisted damage in missions as well. So now we're looking at two ships that deal more effective damage AND can tank the rats for those types more effectively and two ships that have to pick. That SUCKS for the people who fly those two ships. And so there was I, who after long time flying Gallente ships had found Vargur's omni tank as a great relief. Look, I don't expect you to change your mind, and also I don't suppose you are able to bring argument changing mine. So let's maybe just agree that the issue is not as black-and-white as it looks on the first sight? |
To mare
Advanced Technology
244
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 10:39:00 -
[2468] - Quote
ithink they really deserve a 5th turret/missile launcher every marauder have less potential dps than one T1 BS of the same race |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
364
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 10:44:00 -
[2469] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:either way the bastion mode its a dead sentence, having friends wont help because they cannot even heal or boost you.
I suspect they'd have wepons which they can use to inflict pain on the other gang... Once you've dealt with the ewar ship that's cockblocking your gang. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
marVLs
398
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:46:00 -
[2470] - Quote
Maybe change bastion so when it activates all modules are overheated for 60seconds, when cycle ends they need to cooldown for some time (1min?) |
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Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
107
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:46:00 -
[2471] - Quote
The Real Problem is Marauder Theme, Bastion Modul, MJD Rolebonus and Web Bonus just wont fit together, its only a Giant expensive Mixed Bag... |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
626
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Posted - 2013.09.05 10:52:00 -
[2472] - Quote
This Marauder change has gone from "Great!" to "No thanks". Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 10:59:00 -
[2473] - Quote
Quote:[Kronos, huehuehue]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Centus C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Internal Force Field Array I True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Heavy Capacitor Booster II Large Micro Jump Drive
Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
That just like that. Would be around 1.7bil at current prices. A Marauder with - before links - approximately 160k EHP and resistances slightly above your regular proteus. Can switch a web for eccm, but given that you'll most likely fly it together with some mates, might totally be unnecessary. Like that, tracking of 0.9/sec, 4km optimal, 16km falloff, 1100 dps, 160 dps from smartbombs. Using Void, 1300dps cold, 1500 hot. Not bad at all in my opinion atleast. Can also switch up to two smartbombs for heavy neuts, since you still got that much grid :>
Funny thing though, while the em/explosive resistances are still the same as T1, your kinetic goes from 77.7 to 92.6 and therm from 74.0 to 85.1. Now actively requesting any faction / new faction willing to produce these:-áhttp://eohgames.com/labs/Ships/Vanir%20Federation%20Talos-á |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
300
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 11:01:00 -
[2474] - Quote
It almost looks like CCP gone the route: 1. Do something bad. 2. Change to something even worse. 3. To do something better - revert 2 to 1. ........... Profit!.
As a side note: swap web bonus to 10% range and damage of smart bombs. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Lair Osen
Unlawful Unit
5
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:02:00 -
[2475] - Quote
To mare wrote:ithink they really deserve a 5th turret/missile launcher every marauder have less potential dps than one T1 BS of the same race
Where did you get that idea?? Vargur has 10.67 effective turrets, same as Mael and FleePest, (less than Mach with 11.67) Paladin has 10 same as Abaddon and Nightmare (more than Bhaalgorn with 8) Kronos has 10 more than any other than Vindi with 11 Golem has 8, the same as Raven, RNI and SNI (can't really talk about the Rattlesnake with its mixed missile/drone damage) |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 11:18:00 -
[2476] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Plus I've made my argument against velocity bonused webs a few times already, after running the numbers I'd much rather see range bonused ones. Better for incursions with the Warfare Link changes, lets you better hold cruisers out at blap-ranges, and is less OP for PvP in general since it doesn't make you immune to small ships, just somewhat resistant.
I'm a fan of a range bonus to webs, if bonused webs must be. It shouldn't be anything like massive bonuses some hulls get, but 10%/level wouldn't be too strong.
However, the Golem really should have something else in place of the painter bonus if the web bonus stays on, because otherwise one of its major hull bonuses becomes very hard to use due to insufficient mids for MJD+web+painter+tank. They're nothing wrong with having to compromise to fit dual-prop plus everything else, or double painters, but having to not fit things your ship is clearly intended to fit sucks, especially as other marauders won't have this problem, and thus will be more attractive because they'll be stronger for being able to use all their bonuses.
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Hanna Cyrus
Paranocxium Brotherhood Of Silent Space
12
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:18:00 -
[2477] - Quote
Folks, you want too much at all. Pick one and strenghten this not all at once.
Maybe i have a nice idea: make the Bastion mode, a mode the needs fuel stored in an extra cargo, that allows to reduce the mass of the ship by 50%. This will boost your MWD / AB Speed for the duration immense, makes it a mobil ship for PVE / PVP. No extra dps, no extra range, maybe a bit better sensor strenght an scan res, this should not get over the top.
What do you think?
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Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
300
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 11:23:00 -
[2478] - Quote
Hanna Cyrus wrote:Folks, you want too much at all. Pick one and strenghten this not all at once.
Maybe i have a nice idea: make the Bastion mode, a mode the needs fuel stored in an extra cargo, that allows to reduce the mass of the ship by 50%. This will boost your MWD / AB Speed for the duration immense, makes it a mobil ship for PVE / PVP. No extra dps, no extra range, maybe a bit better sensor strenght an scan res, this should not get over the top.
What do you think?
Return to the age of nanoRavens when nanofibers affected mass and not agility? It was fun, yeah... Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
244
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 11:26:00 -
[2479] - Quote
Lair Osen wrote:To mare wrote:ithink they really deserve a 5th turret/missile launcher every marauder have less potential dps than one T1 BS of the same race Where did you get that idea?? Vargur has 10.67 effective turrets, same as Mael and FleePest, (less than Mach with 11.67) Paladin has 10 same as Abaddon and Nightmare (more than Bhaalgorn with 8) Kronos has 10 more than any other than Vindi with 11 Golem has 8, the same as Raven, RNI and SNI (can't really talk about the Rattlesnake with its mixed missile/drone damage)
equal turret for 3 of them but t1 have more drone dps available 10 turret vs 9 for the kronos vs hype but huge drone bay difference |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
10
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:27:00 -
[2480] - Quote
Whatever CCP will do they should make their mind about it.
Right now it is a tank on wheels, with spining baldes as its main armament. Guys firgure out what this ship is for. Than start applying bonuses, resists, etc.
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marly cortez
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
25
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:34:00 -
[2481] - Quote
Guess that finally finishes off the Marauder as a PvE ship, was, is and will remain utterly useless for PvP, and whatever caused you to believe that a WEB bonus was in anyway what players needed, EWAR boost maybe Webs, come on please.
'Bastion' module, yer right, lets all warp in and just sit there asking to be hot dropped, that is if your stupid enough to use a Marauder in PvP in the first place, and if your using it for PvE, what ya gonna dump so you can fit it, more of the mediocre tank, weapons or Cap.
All Marauders really needed was a tweak to Ewar, nothing more, wonder how much time CCP invested in this.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
19
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:35:00 -
[2482] - Quote
Iv already suggested this but to reiterate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GW0Vnr9Yc&feature=youtube_gdata_player If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Critical Issue
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:36:00 -
[2483] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:This Marauder change has gone from "Great!" to "No thanks".
Thats what i said also.
BTW i hope this thread reaches 300 pages.
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Lucidia fern
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
5
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:38:00 -
[2484] - Quote
Going by the view of this forum thread, CCP needs to answer the following questions so we have a chance in hell of understanding these changes
What role is this ship intended to fill now ?
What +/- is PVE supposed to expect?
What +/- is PVP supposed to expect?
Right now there seems to be a complete lack of direction. The 1st iteration of changes whilst somewhat contested at least made sense / showed direction. This second set seems to be split personality and directionless. |
Franz7657
DreddNaut
3
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:51:00 -
[2485] - Quote
We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level.
wtf? webber is completly useless on the golem...
let the shield boost bonus |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
70
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:52:00 -
[2486] - Quote
Battle Cube wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:some of us liked the 1st iteration more :( the new version is almost identical to the original - the bastion mode still behaves the same still having high resists and great local tank. Only now, the regular mode isn't nerfed to compensate. Furthermore, in situations where you would attempt to leave bastion mode in order to get reped, your resists don't go down, meaning its a whole lot more possible to accept reps.
except that Bastion mode comes with a huge downside. 1 minute of being unable to move + not able to receive RR. 1st iteration had a rep bonus, ewar immunity, huge resist bonus and a range bonus. 2nd iteration bastion mode loses one of the bonuses but keeps all the downsides.
It basically dramatically lowers the usefulness of bastion mode in PVP (unless you count uncontested structure shoots as PVP) and thus the chance of seeing it being used.
The 1st iteration it was at least possible to envision MJD to reposition and bastion to survive until logi burned into range. The loss of the huge EHP bonus as well as some of the inherant bonuses to self rep take this sort of tactic from unlikely outside of Rooks and Kings making an awesome video to suicide.
It is the ability to survive reposition until logi gets back to range that has been nerfed. Webbing is better applied from a specialised webbing platform and i really don't see what short ranged webs have to do with a ship flooded with range bonuses to weapons. (except in PVE).
Also i am totally not understanding the lvl 4 mission crowd. Every lvl 4 is doable in a drake with T1 missiles. Every ship beyond that just makes it faster and more efficient. Blinged out marauders doing them is beyond overkill. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
247
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:53:00 -
[2487] - Quote
Quote:This second set seems to be split personality and directionless.
Catering to a wider audience make sense don't you think? What are those new tech2 resistances on marauders, do they compensate lack of the bonuses to local reps? New CQ prototype |
MBizon Osis
State War Academy Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:57:00 -
[2488] - Quote
sensor strength ______Marauders+T2 Resists =_________Rebalanced! / Track&salvager bonus / Direction--/ \ \ MicroJumpDrive -------New Ideas+BastionMod =_____New Ship! AbaddonHull |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
481
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:59:00 -
[2489] - Quote
Why in hell the massive nerf to the vargur? So much less HP and loosing 1/3 of its speed? Wtf? I am sellign Mine TODAY if its becommign this crap. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
366
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 12:03:00 -
[2490] - Quote
Franz7657 wrote:wtf? webber is completly useless on the golem...
Well, the kronos and Paladin Pilots wanted their webs.
So now it's all of them or none of them. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
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