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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
909
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Posted - 2011.10.31 19:40:00 -
[271] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Riedle wrote:Cearain wrote:
It depends if we are in game or out of game.
Why? We are in the forums. Are you mad? If so, does that make me a psycopath? Because it just does. Yes I'm fuming. Yes making someone mad on an internet forum means you are a psychopath.
Oh wow then I'm practically Hannibal Lecter. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
599
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 19:44:00 -
[272] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Yes making someone mad on an internet forum means you are a psychopath. Which makes as much sense as saying someone who blows up a mining ship in-game is a psychopath. This thread is only funny because you are trying so hard...never stop posting.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 19:58:00 -
[273] - Quote
Zombatar wrote:My issue is with people that take pleasure in the pain of others, especially on those that did absolutely nothing to warrant such action. One is a competitive game where we all fight for something and another is when you feel good to cause pain. The underling idea is the motivation behind your actions.
Pretty much this. It boils down to people's own personal intentions. If your intention is to hurt people (ie collect tears) make no mistake about it, you are a sadist. The game just happens to be the tool used to propogate malicious intentions.
Eve tends to attract some of the most bottom-of-the-barrel personalities precisely because the game allows for people that would normally get permabanned in other games not only survive but actually thrive in Eve. It's the price Eve pays for being a sandbox game.
But personally, I prefer they use Eve to grief rather than be out there hurting other people in other ways, maybe even hurting themselves. Kind of (but not really) the lesser of two evils.
Edit: In before "But but I'm a preacher and a doctor in real life and I help grannies cross the streets while saving children from orphanages!". |
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
238
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:02:00 -
[274] - Quote
Lemme guess, you were one of those kids that when it was time to play cops and robbers, went and sat on the swing and contemplated his navel. "Oh, look, lint!"
All EVE is, is an adult version of cops and robbers. Looking any further into it than that is silly. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
603
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:05:00 -
[275] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:If your intention is to hurt people (ie collect tears) make no mistake about it, you are a sadist. Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any derpier
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Rod Blaine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:08:00 -
[276] - Quote
It's not about anonimity afaic, not that i'll give you my name and phone number, but that's not the point is it? It's because eve is escapism, and a blowshitupwithyourshipfittedMWD-thing at that.
The question should be: why don't you leave your morals at the login screen?
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Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo EVE Trade Alliance
52
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:12:00 -
[277] - Quote
Huehuehue wrote:I know this is going to be a controversial topic (mostly everyone vs. me I think...) but please read trough. This is not a troll attempt of kind, but this is an attempt to generate discussion on this topic.
It seems to me that most of EVE player community seems to think , even if they don't do this themselves, that it's okay to shoot down a lone miner or missioner in low sec, steal ore, threaten someone for money etc. "It's part of the game, deal with it" is what I hear most of the time. The question I want to ask you is this: Why do you leave your morality at login screen? Don't get me wrong, pvp and such is obviously okay when both parties do it for fun and enjoyment, which is the case with most pvp in EVE. Sure, no one likes to lose but that's part of the fun too. But when you kill a lone miner who's not even in a player corp that's just evil. You don't see people saying "well he shouldn't whine it's part of the life" if a guy wanders in bad part of the town and gets beat up do you? How would like it if I came up to you and beat you up, afterwards saying "hey don't get mad, god (aka the lead dev of life ;) ) made this possible so it's cool!". You don't see theist go around saying **** like that do you?
It's so easy to be an ******* to people when you both are anonymous and it's never going to get back you. What marks a real good and moral person is his ability sympathize with others regardless of the fact who and where the other person is. "It's part of the game" is just really really bad excuse for behaving like an ******* and makes me wonder if these people are just as bad irl, or do express their inner ******* online because they don't have the balls to do it irl? I know I'd much rather just say hi to that lonely miner than blow him to pieces just because.
Some individuals will tell you that morality is a social institution. And that in an environment where the social stucture doesn't exist due to the anonymity of the internet, it is logical that individuals would act like their "true" self.
Personally, I feel the mask we were for society is our true self... and that being a **** on the internet is just a bunch of people that have issues with themselves and have to let it out with complete anonymity.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:12:00 -
[278] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:If your intention is to hurt people (ie collect tears) make no mistake about it, you are a sadist. Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any derpier
I don't expect this to make sense to you and a few others. You can feel free to ignore my post above :). |
Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
20
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Posted - 2011.10.31 20:18:00 -
[279] - Quote
I have answered these, but lets have another go at it, I've got some spare time I suppose.
Cearain wrote:
Just because something is allowed by the game rules doesn't mean its moral. Lets say CCP said that if you know someone is a certain race in real life then you *must* refer to them by a racial slur every time you see them in local. CCP would make this a rule so its "part of the game." Yet you know those people of whatever race are really hurt by this. Is it ok?
Why not?
You are arguing that the game in itself perpetuates an immoral activity, in this case is lying which, btw, is a stretch to be immoral in the first place. I said initially we could easily apply to this dog fighting. Its a sport. Its a game. Most consider it immoral.
Russian roulette is a game. Everyone agrees to the rules and know that they might die during the game. Again, many would say that this is game is immoral.
Lets throwing lying to people and blowing up internet spaceships into the same boat. At best what you can argue is intentional deception in an effort to acquire in game items that may or may not have out of game value (this tie is EXTREMELY tentative at best, so don't ride the "acquire items to pay for game time" argument into the sun). So, you are saying then that the act of deceit being allowed and supported in a game makes the game immoral. Well, since most board games rely on this as a strategic option, you are going to argue most games in existence. The very fact that they are so commonly played shows that those who are upset (really really upset) are misinterpreting the game or are simply bad sports.
The racial slur argument is completely out of context, because the game does not do this. If it did, it would be promoting a hate crime and probably would not survive the lawsuit. Have you ever played a *** game? Didn't think so. Stop applying these extreme examples to something that goes beyond the scope of the argument.
Cearain wrote: Take a friend or family member that you would trust with all the things you listed. Take your best friend. And lets say you invited them to play eve. They constantly told you they would never take your stuff in eve that you could trust them. You had a corp together and kept both your stuff in the corp hangar lets say about 50 billion worth. Then one day you were out doing a mission with him/her and he/she ganks your ship. You go back and see that all your stuff in the corporate hangars are gone. He/she tells you he did this so that he/she wouldn't have to pay for the subscription anymore.
Now what would your reaction be? A) as though they bluffed you in poker? "yeah nice one haha its part of the game" or B) would you perhaps not trust them quite so much anymore?
A) Lets take your direct example. Have I been bluffed by a friend in poker for over $100? Yes. Was I angry when it happened? Yes. Did I call him immoral for the play? Of course not.
Lets put this in EVE now. A friend just robbed me of 50bil. Would I be pissed. OH HELL YES. Would I show up at his place screaming bloody murder about what how evil I thought he was. Of course not. Would I trust him with my in game assets anymore. Of course not, I would have already begun plotting my vengeance (and it would be sweet).
Would I hit the bars with them? Check on how things are with his family? Shoot the sh*t from time to time? Talk about EVE? Of course I would, cause there has been some REAL F*CKING things we have gone through that extend BEYOND A GAME. You know...REALITY.
B) Trust them how? In game. LOL. No. I wouldn't loan them an ibis. Trust them to come over and house sit? Yes I would. They made a great play. Just because you have and adversary doesn't mean they can't be your friend. My dad has kicked my ass in chess for years, we get along great.
BTW I am still surprised you don't see the point of my earlier example. Why would you think you can't trust someone on game form their trespasses, but you wouldn't trust them out of game if you trusted them with all your assets in game? Unless you don't trust people at all. Or, you couldn't trust someone in a game without trusting them as a person, in which case make sure never play poker together. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
70
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:22:00 -
[280] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Cearain wrote:Yes making someone mad on an internet forum means you are a psychopath. Which makes as much sense as saying someone who blows up a mining ship in-game is a psychopath. This thread is only funny because you are trying so hard...never stop posting.
Yes, right, there was no irony in anything I said in that post.
I think you're the one trying too hard.
We know you have nothing to offer on this topic other than trying to insult others. Get some rest. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Neve Talie-Ko
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:23:00 -
[281] - Quote
Like football (American or otherwise) play is an opportunity to exercise the parts of our psyche that go unused in this modern regulated society we inhabit. We all need to be ready to protect our genetic interest in the next generation, but we have little opportunity to practice the combat skills that might be necessary if the modern world were to go to hell. |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:24:00 -
[282] - Quote
As evidenced by the thread.........
You need Villains before you can have heroes
:3 "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
20
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Posted - 2011.10.31 20:25:00 -
[283] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:If your intention is to hurt people (ie collect tears) make no mistake about it, you are a sadist. Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any derpier I don't expect this to make sense to you and a few others. You can feel free to ignore my post above :).
Games in themselves encourage players to be sadistic and masochistic. Typically we call it a challenge. We enjoy the experience as a whole. Simply calling ppl sadists is just trolling, because there is a huge gap between splodering someones internet pixels and whipping someone while you jerk it.
*Edit: what a quote to start page 15 lol |
Velicitia
Open Designs
39
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:25:00 -
[284] - Quote
Xien Anh wrote:I have a space ship with laser guns and I'm gonna shoot stuff with it. Ain't nothing gonna stop me except someone with bigger guns.
or a gang of people with similar sized and/or smaller guns...
or CONCORD. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:38:00 -
[285] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:If your intention is to hurt people (ie collect tears) make no mistake about it, you are a sadist. Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any derpier I don't expect this to make sense to you and a few others. You can feel free to ignore my post above :). Games in themselves encourage players to be sadistic and masochistic. Typically we call it a challenge. We enjoy the experience as a whole. Simply calling ppl sadists is just trolling, because there is a huge gap between splodering someones internet pixels and whipping someone while you jerk it. *Edit: what a quote to start page 15 lol
I am sure there are rogue games out there forged to encourage sadism and cruel intentions. But that is not what games generally are for. And I don't think Eve is meant to be a game played to bring out the worst in people either. Just like most games it is meant to instill discipline, team spirit, and a healthy dose of entertainment.
And for the record, playing the bad guy in Eve doesn't necessarily make you bad in real life. But playing a sadistic a-hole out to collect tears for your own amusement, as a few profess, well, that's no longer playing at all. Those are actually *real* malicious feelings that you have and project to others using the game as the tool to deliver rather than a simple entertainment venue.
If you get enjoyment from causing misery to others you can pretend all you want that it's just in-game, but the fact is that your enjoyment is very real. And that is the very definition of sadism. |
Xien Anh
Watanabe Heavy Industries
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:24:00 -
[286] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Xien Anh wrote:I have a space ship with laser guns and I'm gonna shoot stuff with it. Ain't nothing gonna stop me except someone with bigger guns. or a gang of people with similar sized and/or smaller guns... or CONCORD. Yeah, that! And warp disrupters and stuff. Frigg'n disrupters are totally the death of me. Have you ever had one of those days when you put your shoes on backwards and walked sideways to compensate? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
174
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:32:00 -
[287] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:I have answered these, but lets have another go at it, I've got some spare time I suppose. Cearain wrote:
Just because something is allowed by the game rules doesn't mean its moral. Lets say CCP said that if you know someone is a certain race in real life then you *must* refer to them by a racial slur every time you see them in local. CCP would make this a rule so its "part of the game." Yet you know those people of whatever race are really hurt by this. Is it ok?
Why not?
You are arguing that the game in itself perpetuates an immoral activity, in this case is lying which, btw, is a stretch to be immoral in the first place. I said initially we could easily apply to this dog fighting. Its a sport. Its a game. Most consider it immoral. Russian roulette is a game. Everyone agrees to the rules and know that they might die during the game. Again, many would say that this is game is immoral. Lets throwing lying to people and blowing up internet spaceships into the same boat. At best what you can argue is intentional deception in an effort to acquire in game items that may or may not have out of game value (this tie is EXTREMELY tentative at best, so don't ride the "acquire items to pay for game time" argument into the sun). So, you are saying then that the act of deceit being allowed and supported in a game makes the game immoral. Well, since most board games rely on this as a strategic option, you are going to argue most games in existence. The very fact that they are so commonly played shows that those who are upset (really really upset) are misinterpreting the game or are simply bad sports. The racial slur argument is completely out of context, because the game does not do this. If it did, it would be promoting a hate crime and probably would not survive the lawsuit. Have you ever played a *** game? Didn't think so. Stop applying these extreme examples to something that goes beyond the scope of the argument. Cearain wrote: Take a friend or family member that you would trust with all the things you listed. Take your best friend. And lets say you invited them to play eve. They constantly told you they would never take your stuff in eve that you could trust them. You had a corp together and kept both your stuff in the corp hangar lets say about 50 billion worth. Then one day you were out doing a mission with him/her and he/she ganks your ship. You go back and see that all your stuff in the corporate hangars are gone. He/she tells you he did this so that he/she wouldn't have to pay for the subscription anymore.
Now what would your reaction be? A) as though they bluffed you in poker? "yeah nice one haha its part of the game" or B) would you perhaps not trust them quite so much anymore?
A) Lets take your direct example. Have I been bluffed by a friend in poker for over $100? Yes. Was I angry when it happened? Yes. Did I call him immoral for the play? Of course not. Lets put this in EVE now. A friend just robbed me of 50bil. Would I be pissed. OH HELL YES. Would I show up at his place screaming bloody murder about what how evil I thought he was. Of course not. Would I trust him with my in game assets anymore. Of course not, I would have already begun plotting my vengeance (and it would be sweet). Would I hit the bars with them? Check on how things are with his family? Shoot the sh*t from time to time? Talk about EVE? Of course I would, cause there has been some REAL F*CKING things we have gone through that extend BEYOND A GAME. You know...REALITY. B) Trust them how? In game. LOL. No. I wouldn't loan them an ibis. Trust them to come over and house sit? Yes I would. They made a great play. Just because you have and adversary doesn't mean they can't be your friend. My dad has kicked my ass in chess for years, we get along great. BTW I am still surprised you don't see the point of my earlier example. Why would you think you can't trust someone on game form their trespasses, but you wouldn't trust them out of game if you trusted them with all your assets in game? Unless you don't trust people at all. Or, you couldn't trust someone in a game without trusting them as a person, in which case make sure never play poker together.
Don't bother anymore. He's been answered directly, along with full explanations, already. He repeatedly, pointedly ignores those responses.
This is the classic tactic of the forum troll in his native environment.
Any further discussion only serves to feed his ego. He's not arguing to prove what he believes is a legitimate point, he's simply arguing to get a rise out of people.
Time to move along people. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Theodoric Darkwind
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
42
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:36:00 -
[288] - Quote
Very simple, this is a role playing game, even those who dont actively RP have still chosen a role for their character and in many cases they have chosen the role of pirate or criminal for their character. This is a game where you can be anything you want and a lot of players choose to be the bad guy (since in most other MMOs the "bad guys" are npcs and players cant play the bad guy)
The general lore for EVE portrays new eden with very seedy undertones and generally a very greed driven society, so it makes sense that with their newfound power many capsuleers would turn to less-than-legal activities for personal gain. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
70
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:36:00 -
[289] - Quote
First thanks for the responses to the questions. We can finally move the conversation forward a bit.
Karl Planck wrote:Cearain wrote:
Just because something is allowed by the game rules doesn't mean its moral. Lets say CCP said that if you know someone is a certain race in real life then you *must* refer to them by a racial slur every time you see them in local. CCP would make this a rule so its "part of the game." Yet you know those people of whatever race are really hurt by this. Is it ok?
Why not?
GǪRussian roulette is a game. Everyone agrees to the rules and know that they might die during the game. Again, many would say that this is game is immoral. Lets throwing lying to people and blowing up internet spaceships into the same boat. At best what you can argue is intentional deception in an effort to acquire in game items that may or may not have out of game value (this tie is EXTREMELY tentative at best, so don't ride the "acquire items to pay for game time" argument into the sun). So, you are saying then that the act of deceit being allowed and supported in a game makes the game immoral. Well, since most board games rely on this as a strategic option, you are going to argue most games in existence. The very fact that they are so commonly played shows that those who are upset (really really upset) are misinterpreting the game or are simply bad sports. The racial slur argument is completely out of context, because the game does not do this. If it did, it would be promoting a hate crime and probably would not survive the lawsuit. Have you ever played a *** game? Didn't think so. Stop applying these extreme examples to something that goes beyond the scope of the argument..
Lying to people for personal/selfish gain is generally immoral. That is my view. You can disagree. Now I will agree that certain games can be set up where you are supposed to say things that arenGÇÖt true. I would put this in the category of acting. If you are playing a character who says something you know is wrong then its not immoral. This would not be immoral so long as it was clear it was in the game. I agree that would just be part of the game. But much of the lying in eve isn't so clearly part of the game.
For example in the example below I don't think the best friend saying you can trust him with your eve assets was part of the game. He wasn't pretending to be "in character" when he said that. He was a real person telling you something about what he would really do *regarding* a game not in a game. That is where allot of the lying comes in eve. I think the line is blurred.
I do not think the link between in game assets and real money is extremely tentative at all. I can buy isk with real money. I would love to have a trillion isk so I didn't have to grind missions or do trading to pvp. If I have enough isk I can save real money by not paying subscriptions. There is not only a link with money but with personal (as opposed to in game character) gain.
Now you seem to agree that itGÇÖs not that case so long as ccp says its moral then its moral. I agree. There can be things that ccp may say is moral that really aren't moral. I would say that would includes lying to people for personal gain.
As far as your distinguishing my example due to it being illegal: it might be illegal it might not. I don't know how the first amendment would fit into that. But whether itGÇÖs legal or not is really beside the point of whether itGÇÖs immoral. Unless you disagree I will leave it at that.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
70
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:38:00 -
[290] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:Cearain wrote: Take a friend or family member that you would trust with all the things you listed. Take your best friend. And lets say you invited them to play eve. They constantly told you they would never take your stuff in eve that you could trust them. You had a corp together and kept both your stuff in the corp hangar lets say about 50 billion worth. Then one day you were out doing a mission with him/her and he/she ganks your ship. You go back and see that all your stuff in the corporate hangars are gone. He/she tells you he did this so that he/she wouldn't have to pay for the subscription anymore.
Now what would your reaction be? A) as though they bluffed you in poker? "yeah nice one haha its part of the game" or B) would you perhaps not trust them quite so much anymore?
A) Lets take your direct example. Have I been bluffed by a friend in poker for over $100? Yes. Was I angry when it happened? Yes. Did I call him immoral for the play? Of course not. Lets put this in EVE now. A friend just robbed me of 50bil. Would I be pissed. OH HELL YES. Would I show up at his place screaming bloody murder about what how evil I thought he was. Of course not. Would I trust him with my in game assets anymore. Of course not, I would have already begun plotting my vengeance (and it would be sweet). Would I hit the bars with them? Check on how things are with his family? Shoot the sh*t from time to time? Talk about EVE? Of course I would, cause there has been some REAL F*CKING things we have gone through that extend BEYOND A GAME. You know...REALITY. B) Trust them how? In game. LOL. No. I wouldn't loan them an ibis. Trust them to come over and house sit? Yes I would. They made a great play. Just because you have and adversary doesn't mean they can't be your friend. My dad has kicked my ass in chess for years, we get along great. .
If I had a friend that I trusted and he stole all the assets out of a corp we both had and agreed we would be trustworthy about I would not trust him as much. Because his saying that I could trust him was not part of the game. It was a statement about how he would treat me in the game.
For example letGÇÖs say he told me he would log in at 9 AM and we would fleet up. Yet he doesnGÇÖt do that. ItGÇÖs not an GÇ£in gameGÇ¥ promise. ThatGÇÖs not part of the game. Any more than his telling me he will show up for a basketball game at a certain time is part of the game of basketball.
Heres the other thing you say GÇ£he made a great play.GÇ¥ How do you figure that? I mean it seems to me that he just abused the fact that you guys are real life friends in order to get your in game assets. He told you, you could trust him, and lied about it. I donGÇÖt see what is so GÇ£greatGÇ¥ about that?
I mean you both knew either of you could break your promises made and take the stuff. ItGÇÖs not like you were GÇ£fooled.GÇ¥ You were just lied to. ThatGÇÖs all.
There is no real game play involved. The game of eve does not really contribute anything to help you detect he was lying. In fact all of the lying was likely done outside of the eve client.
Karl Planck wrote: BTW I am still surprised you don't see the point of my earlier example. Why would you think you can't trust someone on game form their trespasses, but you wouldn't trust them out of game if you trusted them with all your assets in game? Unless you don't trust people at all. Or, you couldn't trust someone in a game without trusting them as a person, in which case make sure never play poker together.
IGÇÖm not sure I understand what you are asking here. The extent I trust someone will determine how valuable an item that I will trust them with. I have to trust someone pretty well before I will let them watch my children overnight. I would likely let someone borrow a book before I would let them borrow a $1000. But my assets in eve have a certain value for me. IGÇÖm not exactly sure how much but I would likely let someone borrow a book before I let them have access to all my assets in eve.
There is no difference to me with trusting someone with my game assets and trusting them with other things of value to me. If you had a trillion isk wouldnGÇÖt you value that at all?
Would you never trust anyone with it, other than as a carrot to rip them off? Like I said I would trust some people I know well. And it has nothing to do with eve it has to do with knowing them as people and if they say they will play this game a certain way I can trust them.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
174
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:43:00 -
[291] - Quote
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:Very simple, this is a role playing game, even those who dont actively RP have still chosen a role for their character and in many cases they have chosen the role of pirate or criminal for their character. This is a game where you can be anything you want and a lot of players choose to be the bad guy (since in most other MMOs the "bad guys" are npcs and players cant play the bad guy)
The general lore for EVE portrays new eden with very seedy undertones and generally a very greed driven society, so it makes sense that with their newfound power many capsuleers would turn to less-than-legal activities for personal gain.
Sense has very little to do with this thread thus far. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
52
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 22:52:00 -
[292] - Quote
Huehuehue wrote:Abrazzar wrote:There are no real consequences, so there is no real morality. Games are not real. Do not confuse player behaviour with real person behaviour. But of course you cannot seperate the two. You do not suddenly turn into another person that has no affect on your real person when you log on. Like I said, I would never ever kill a miner or missioner UNLESS they are in enemy corporation I'm in war with and thus it's part of agreed combat. And how can you say there are no real consenquenses, each player devotes his time, which is the single most valuable asset any human has to this game, and you can bet the missioneer who lost his brand new cnr because you felt the kill mail would look nice does not feel good.
I've actually noticed what Huehuehue is talking about -- it's not 'because it's a game' that people have no moral compass (or rather, not just that), it's that the virtual environment has conditioned us to subconciously consider the other person as 'virtual' -- since it's a picture, and not a 'real' person, we psychologically feel that we don't have to apply the same level of morality as we do to a living, flesh-and-blood person.
Beaudrillard would have a field day with this. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 23:37:00 -
[293] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Riedle wrote:Cearain wrote:
It depends if we are in game or out of game.
Why? We are in the forums. Are you mad? If so, does that make me a psycopath? Because it just does. Yes I'm fuming. Yes making someone mad on an internet forum means you are a psychopath.
lol look up the definition of egomaniac and then look in the mirror.
The world is not defined by your feelings. sorry. lol |
Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
25
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 01:20:00 -
[294] - Quote
Cearain, I am not going to persue this any farther man.
I just want to say, in all seriousness, if this is how you feel about this game, you need to take a serious look into how you separate game play vs relationships in reality. There is a large difference between the two but the line is blurred way too much for you man.
Honestly not trolling. EVE might really not be the place for you. Poker, losing isn't that bad. Risk, you lose a couple hours. EVE you can lose years. That level of risk is why most of us feel so much excitement vs the other games. The amount of emotional investment you have in this game might be a detriment to your health if the chips fall in the wrong way. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
545
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 01:23:00 -
[295] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:I just want to say, in all seriousness, if this is how you feel about this game, you need to take a serious look into how you separate game play vs relationships in reality. There is a large difference between the two but the line is blurred way too much for you man. CCP said "Eve is Real" and Cearain totally believed them.
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Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
86
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 01:51:00 -
[296] - Quote
Jackie Fisher wrote:I used to play a lot of chess because I enjoyed moving my pieces around the board. I would tell this to other players and ask them not to beat me as I was happy with a draw.
After a while it occurred to me that Knights were overpowered, with their ability to jump over other pieces, so I decided to opt out of that part of the game and stop using them.
I must have been very unlucky as all my opponents were immoral and continued to use their Knights and they kept beating me. They were probably serial killers or bankers in their day jobs.
I looked up "specious argument" and found "see this post"...referring to yours of course, msr.
To her it doesn't matter much.-á It's chasms have been leapt, and she leans upon the skepticism of her chosen fate. |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
86
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 01:56:00 -
[297] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Justin Credulent wrote:The thing is, whether or not it's "part of the game" or "not against the rules"... the fact is your actions are still 100% your choice.
Players who try to hide behind lines like "nowhere in EVE is safe" or "the GMs allow it" or "it's just part of the game" are moral and intellectual cowards trying to pass off blame for their own actions (and guilt) onto an innocent third party. Works both ways: anyone who hides behind GÇ£they're sociopaths", GÇ£I wasn't doing anything" or GÇ£it's illegal IRL" is a moral and intellectual coward trying to pass off blame for their own mistakes and poor choices (and accountability) onto a third party. They chose to play a full-PvP game, and then chose not to prepare for the eventuality of being engaged in PvP. That's their actions and 100% their choice - it just turned out to be a horribly bad choice and they're experiencing the consequences of that choice. And the reason Ieave out GÇ£innocent" is because I do not live under the delusion that anyone in EVE is innocent, most certainly not the resource gatherers who make it all possible...
I looked up "circular argument" and was referred to THIS post. I love my dictionary.
To her it doesn't matter much.-á It's chasms have been leapt, and she leans upon the skepticism of her chosen fate. |
Zions Child
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 01:59:00 -
[298] - Quote
tl;dr
Why do people grief and kill in EVE: Because they can with no consequence, just like how no one is calling for a regulated market. Morals are unnecessary in a virtual environment. Certain morals are still present, like honesty, but other than that most are completely ignored. ISK flows like water and you can never permanently kill someone, so who gives a damn? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
619
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 02:00:00 -
[299] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:I looked up "specious argument" and found "see this post"...referring to yours of course, msr.
Vyl Vit wrote:I looked up "circular argument" and was referred to THIS post. I love my dictionary.
You should stick to reading the dictionary. You're not very good at this whole posting thing.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
86
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 02:18:00 -
[300] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Vyl Vit wrote:I looked up "specious argument" and found "see this post"...referring to yours of course, msr. Vyl Vit wrote:I looked up "circular argument" and was referred to THIS post. I love my dictionary. You should stick to reading the dictionary. You're not very good at this whole posting thing.
Coming from you, that's a compliment.
To her it doesn't matter much.-á It's chasms have been leapt, and she leans upon the skepticism of her chosen fate. |
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