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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

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CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance 380	Posted - 2011.10.31 09:25:00 - [151] - Quote Offtopic and inappropriate posts removed. Please keep the discussion civil. CCP Spitfire \| Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire

Tallian Saotome Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension 213	Posted - 2011.10.31 09:26:00 - [152] - Quote Tippia wrote: Justin Credulent wrote: The thing is, whether or not it's "part of the game" or "not against the rules"... the fact is your actions are still 100% your choice. Players who try to hide behind lines like "nowhere in EVE is safe" or "the GMs allow it" or "it's just part of the game" are moral and intellectual cowards trying to pass off blame for their own actions (and guilt) onto an innocent third party. Works both ways: anyone who hides behind GÇ£they're sociopaths", GÇ£I wasn't doing anything" or GÇ£it's illegal IRL" is a moral and intellectual coward trying to pass off blame for their own mistakes and poor choices (and accountability) onto a third party. They chose to play a full-PvP game, and then chose not to prepare for the eventuality of being engaged in PvP. That's their actions and 100% their choice - it just turned out to be a horribly bad choice and they're experiencing the consequences of that choice. And the reason Ieave out GÇ£innocent" is because I do not live under the delusion that anyone in EVE is innocent, most certainly not the resource gatherers who make it all possible... Dammit, Tippia, no more intelligent well reasoned posts. You don't need any more likes o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2011.10.31 10:14:00 - [153] - Quote I used to play a lot of chess because I enjoyed moving my pieces around the board. I would tell this to other players and ask them not to beat me as I was happy with a draw. After a while it occurred to me that Knights were overpowered, with their ability to jump over other pieces, so I decided to opt out of that part of the game and stop using them. I must have been very unlucky as all my opponents were immoral and continued to use their Knights and they kept beating me. They were probably serial killers or bankers in their day jobs.
Chelone Outside The Asylum 0	Posted - 2011.10.31 10:38:00 - [154] - Quote Alpheias wrote: [quote=Chelone][quote=Abrazzar]What if I told you that I work as a dentist IRL and that I get off on the pain I inflict? That you should be euthanized. Not joking.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1066	Posted - 2011.10.31 10:41:00 - [155] - Quote Alpheias wrote: What if I told you that I work as a dentist IRL and that I get off on the pain I inflict? You wouldn't be telling us anything new or shocking GÇö we all know that all dentists are like thisGÇª GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Peri Simone Steel Dawn Inc. 15	Posted - 2011.10.31 10:47:00 - [156] - Quote Vyl Vit wrote: A recent study demonstrated that 85% of the Western Civ population is sociopathic. Citation needed.
lilol' me Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.10.31 10:49:00 - [157] - Quote This issue is, eve breeds hate. Its very essence is about scamming, ganking, smack talking. CCP have created a game that is about all those elements and more, all the 7 deadly sins. In turn people either leave PDQ (which is usually the case) or as much as you tried to avoid it, in order to succeed in the game, you have to become morally wrong so to speak. For instance you may not want to kill that carebear but in order to get a kill you have to! Eve is a very niche game, and you find the community adapts to the players around it, thus everyone ends up being a bit of an annoying git, with the usual HTFU, Go back to wow, hello kitty remarks. When infact they hate the mechanics too. This ethos is why eve is stalling, people want to come on enjoy a game, not have idiots ruining it. It will never be mainstream unless CCP make some huge changes on how eve works. Dont get me wrong you meet some good people in this game, but if you dont know them, all they want to do is either avoid you, kill you or scam you. Mainly the last two! And there are people who take this game far too seriously, and actually think they are some universe overlord. Those people need medical help...
Holy One SniggWaffe 68	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:04:00 - [158] - Quote There are two people in Eve I trust absolutely. People who I can just ask for billions of isk, ships/caps etc and never for one second think I won't get it or vice versa. Two. If you aren't one of those two people, you are food.
Tallian Saotome Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension 216	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:08:00 - [159] - Quote lilol' me wrote: This issue is, eve breeds hate. Its very essence is about scamming, ganking, smack talking. CCP have created a game that is about all those elements and more, all the 7 deadly sins. In turn people either leave PDQ (which is usually the case) or as much as you tried to avoid it, in order to succeed in the game, you have to become morally wrong so to speak. For instance you may not want to kill that carebear but in order to get a kill you have to! Eve is a very niche game, and you find the community adapts to the players around it, thus everyone ends up being a bit of an annoying git, with the usual HTFU, Go back to wow, hello kitty remarks. When infact they hate the mechanics too. This ethos is why eve is stalling, people want to come on enjoy a game, not have idiots ruining it. It will never be mainstream unless CCP make some huge changes on how eve works. Dont get me wrong you meet some good people in this game, but if you dont know them, all they want to do is either avoid you, kill you or scam you. Mainly the last two! And there are people who take this game far too seriously, and actually think they are some universe overlord. Those people need medical help... You are right and wrong. You don't have to become 'morally wrong'(such a subject term anyway, my morals aren't yours, and you wouldn't like them anyway), you have to become bitter and jaded to succeed at Eve. This does lead to a in-game environment where the over all feeling is of bitterness and futility, but thats kinda the atmosphere alot of like. THAT is the sci-fi world I predict, where immortality and eliminated real consequence, so humanity is free to screw each other over because you really can't stop someone who can't die. You can just annoy them, and inconvenience them for a while. Its not a friendly environment, and if they made it any friendlier it would destroy the tone, and the setting. As some dev said, the didn't set out to make it look like a cold, harsh, unforgiving world. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos 17	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:12:00 - [160] - Quote Ah this topic again. Was fun for a morning read. A few things, even though they wont be looked at. 1) Check here for the conclusion to this debate. its long, and well thought out on much more than just random pew (see screwing over corp mates) 2) Even introducing morality in a game that emulates characters as immortal (gods, its in the opening cinema). We have never treated a moral clause that applies to immortals because it makes no sense. If you had life eternal, the all the rules change, as you are now making them as you go. 3) No one forces you to play a game. Any arguements about this happening IRL have no relevance, you don't volunteer to exist. 4) ITS A FCKING GAME 5) It was never answered when i previously brought this up so I will drop it here. Take this morality argument and flip it. Those of you who think that morality in game = morality IRL, would you leave your children with those who you trust in game when you leave for a holiday? Would you let them house sit? Would you invest in a business venture they proposed? Think about how stupid it would be to place trust in someones morals from just knowing them in game*. Then turn around and think about how that much weight you should on people's in game actions.
Zombatar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:29:00 - [161] - Quote @ OP Well said. EVE offers you all possible ways to play. I for one never lost my morality when I engage with this game - I am the same person. I PvP and have lots of fun. You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun. I play under NRDS and it's the only policy worth fighting for in EVE. The difference between a shooter game and Eve is that Eve gives you a choice, while a shooter is just that a shooter, you kill others. Unfortunately many people would behave exactly as in the game in RL, were there no police to stop them. Just look at the UK riots that happened not too long ago. EVE is a perfect reflection of the REAL people that play the game. If they do not do that in RL that does not erase the fact that they are immoral and starving for attention and the pleasure of inflicting pain to others. Its happening all over the world in RL already, millions die at the expense of a few wealthy people. There is no excuse for your actions in EVE, THEY DEFINE YOU as a player and as a person. If you don't do that in RL that does not erase their relevance.
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos 17	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:33:00 - [162] - Quote Zombatar wrote: There is no excuse for your actions in EVE, THEY DEFINE YOU as a player and as a person. R O F L In case your wondering why I am laughing... This is analogous to saying a player who is acting as a matar misison runner is a hero of the enslaved and oppressed. This totally means the player is going out and helping the disenfranchised instead of sitting on his ass enjoying a video game because his in game actions define his personality.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 224	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:33:00 - [163] - Quote Zombatar wrote: @ OP Well said. EVE offers you all possible ways to play. I for one never lost my morality when I engage with this game - I am the same person. I PvP and have lots of fun. You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun. I play under NRDS and it's the only policy worth fighting for in EVE. The difference between a shooter game and Eve is that Eve gives you a choice, while a shooter is just that a shooter, you kill others. Unfortunately many people would behave exactly as in the game in RL, were there no police to stop them. Just look at the UK riots that happened not too long ago. EVE is a perfect reflection of the REAL people that play the game. If they do not do that in RL that does not erase the fact that they are immoral and starving for attention and the pleasure of inflicting pain to others. Its happening all over the world in RL already, millions die at the expense of a few wealthy people. There is no excuse for your actions in EVE, THEY DEFINE YOU as a player and as a person. If you don't do that in RL that does not erase their relevance. This guy and others like him, really need to step away from computer games. Its obvious to the rest of us that EVE is getting into your heads and you guys are loosing sight on what is real and what is make believe. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1067	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:36:00 - [164] - Quote Zombatar wrote: You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun. That's pretty immoral of you, don't you think? Quote: There is no excuse for your actions in EVE, THEY DEFINE YOU as a player and as a person. If you don't do that in RL that does not erase their relevance. In other words, you have no respect for human life and you couldn't care less about law and order. You also condone slavery and religious fanaticism. Have you thought about handing yourself over to the nearest tribunal for sentencing? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Big Bad Mofo Retribution. 40	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:42:00 - [165] - Quote I really wish people would stop referring to ' well if you was in real space it would be like this ' YOUR NOT.. Its a game. People play a game to enjoy it, CCP create a game also to make money (as we know). I mean if it was like real life, then we would have a zillion more systems, it would take years to get anywhere, there would be more races, landing on planets, visiting the local alien whorehouse, nebulas. people that actually speak to you etc etc etc etc Stop thinking eve is like real space - its not.. Sorry it really isnt.. now back to reality
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 898	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:44:00 - [166] - Quote Zombatar wrote: @ OP Well said. EVE offers you all possible ways to play. I for one never lost my morality when I engage with this game - I am the same person. I PvP and have lots of fun. You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun. I play under NRDS and it's the only policy worth fighting for in EVE. The difference between a shooter game and Eve is that Eve gives you a choice, while a shooter is just that a shooter, you kill others. Unfortunately many people would behave exactly as in the game in RL, were there no police to stop them. Just look at the UK riots that happened not too long ago. EVE is a perfect reflection of the REAL people that play the game. If they do not do that in RL that does not erase the fact that they are immoral and starving for attention and the pleasure of inflicting pain to others. Its happening all over the world in RL already, millions die at the expense of a few wealthy people. There is no excuse for your actions in EVE, THEY DEFINE YOU as a player and as a person. If you don't do that in RL that does not erase their relevance. Do you believe that Ice Hockey, American football & Rugby players should be charged with assault, robbery with violence, conspiracy to commit assault, and in the case of hockey players, assault with a weapon? The coaches might well be charged with incitement as well as conspiracy, too. These people are even worse than EVE players, by the way - their actions in game cause REAL injuries people - sometimes even fatalities. (They cross state lines - even national borders - to commit these crimes, too! That makes it a Federal offence in America! RICO charges are go!) Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Zombatar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:46:00 - [167] - Quote Flame me all you want. The beauty of EVE is that you can inflict pain to others in very nasty ways IF YOU CHOSE TO, showing how good/bad you really are in RL. Its not a simple shooter where the whole purpose of the game is the SAME for all participants - kill others. I choose to engage in PvP and shoot only reds/pirates that is a BIG difference from engaging a solo miner in high sec for the LOLS. Those pirates that do that deserve to be called pirates and shot at by CONCORD and me. Stop finding excuses for your low life actions in EVE, they define you and you hate to admit that you like to make people suffer. You guys are very dangerous people in RL if tomorrow there would be no police to stop your crave.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 898	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:46:00 - [168] - Quote Tippia wrote: Zombatar wrote: You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun. That's pretty immoral of you, don't you think? He's a self-confessed murderous vigilante, acting as judge, jury and executioner to the people HE decides are unworthy? Talk about sociopathic.... Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Chelone Outside The Asylum 0	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:49:00 - [169] - Quote Big Bad Mofo wrote: I mean if it was like real life, then we would have a zillion more systems, it would take years to get anywhere, there would be more races, landing on planets, visiting the local alien whorehouse, nebulas. people that actually speak to you etc etc etc etc Wait. All of those things sound great except for the "years to get anywhere" thing. Let's forget the morality thread and focus on adding these more systems, more races, landing on planets, nebulae, lifelike interaction and alien whorehouses.
Zombatar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:52:00 - [170] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Tippia wrote: Zombatar wrote: You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun. That's pretty immoral of you, don't you think? He's a self-confessed murderous vigilante, acting as judge, jury and executioner to the people HE decides are unworthy? Talk about sociopathic.... LOL Anyway, I find myself wondering if people who scam in EVE what stops them from doing it in real life? Ah I know, LAWS, people have used PONZI schemes to rip people off so many times in RL is not worth saying. They would do it all time JUST like in JITA, too bad government had to stop them, else this give me 5 mill i give u back 10 would be all over the world. Hell, go read some Nigerian scams. EVE just shows how bad people in this world are. And when people like the OP questions their morality he has all the right to do it. If people treat OTHER people like garbage in a game, why would they be any better in RL were there no coercive measures? Guess NBSI alliances all hate me now. :D
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos 17	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:53:00 - [171] - Quote Zombatar wrote: Flame me all you want. The beauty of EVE is that you can inflict pain to others in very nasty ways IF YOU CHOSE TO, showing how good/bad you really are in RL. Its not a simple shooter where the whole purpose of the game is the SAME for all participants - kill others. what do you think you are mining for? Cause everything you can build in this GAME is ships/items for others to go to battle in. *Edit: post with your main
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 898	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:57:00 - [172] - Quote Zombatar wrote: Malcanis wrote: Tippia wrote: Zombatar wrote: You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun. That's pretty immoral of you, don't you think? He's a self-confessed murderous vigilante, acting as judge, jury and executioner to the people HE decides are unworthy? Talk about sociopathic.... LOL Anyway, I find myself wondering if people who scam in EVE what stops them from doing it in real life? Ah I know, LAWS, people have used PONZI schemes to rip people off so many times in RL is not worth saying. They would do it all time JUST like in JITA, too bad government had to stop them, else this give me 5 mill i give u back 10 would be all over the world. Hell, go read some Nigerian scams. EVE just shows how bad people in this world are. And when people like the OP questions their morality he has all the right to do it. If people treat OTHER people like garbage in a game, why would they be any better in RL were there no coercive measures? Guess NBSI alliances all hate me now. :D So tonight, you're going "on patrol" to kill a few more 'suspicious types' I guess? Gotta keep that community safe and clean, right? How many criminals have you executed this month? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1068	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:59:00 - [173] - Quote Zombatar wrote: Flame me all you want. We're not flaiming you. We're asking if you believe in (and adhere to) your own statements. According to you, you are a religious zealot with no regard for human live, freedom, or rule of law. It's either that, or your premise about the mirroring of reality in fantasy is false. Quote: I choose to engage in PvP and shoot only reds/pirates that is a BIG difference from engaging a solo miner in high sec for the LOLS. Not really, no, since those solo miners chose to be targets (and the ones who do not do so actively, do so due to ignorance, and should rather be happy to have that ignorance removed so they can start to behave rationally and be able to take an active stance in the matter instead). Quote: You guys are very dangerous people in RL Not as dangerous as a such proud fundamentalist and mass-murderer as you profess to be. Quote: Anyway, I find myself wondering if people who scam in EVE what stops them from doing it in real life? Morals, most likely. The things that are shaped by the society in which they live GÇö a radically different society than the one that exists within the virtual world of EVE. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Zombatar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2011.10.31 12:00:00 - [174] - Quote Karl Planck wrote: Zombatar wrote: Flame me all you want. The beauty of EVE is that you can inflict pain to others in very nasty ways IF YOU CHOSE TO, showing how good/bad you really are in RL. Its not a simple shooter where the whole purpose of the game is the SAME for all participants - kill others. what do you think you are mining for? Cause everything you can build in this GAME is ships/items for others to go to battle in. Edit: post with your main Fighting honourably in 0.0 for sov or other stuff is no issue IMO, but ganking a miner for LOLZ or scamming in JITA that is a different story IMO. I guess all have their own standard for their life some have a really low one and it shows in EVE. CAUSING PAIN JUST BECAUSE U CAN* SHOWS WHO YOU ARE!!! - there is a big difference if you fight for a goal aka SOV, killing high sec miners is just a quest for SELF GRATIFICATION. But I don't think such ideas work with the average eve player.
Alpheias Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 109	Posted - 2011.10.31 12:01:00 - [175] - Quote Chelone wrote: Alpheias wrote: [quote=Chelone][quote=Abrazzar]What if I told you that I work as a dentist IRL and that I get off on the pain I inflict? That you should be euthanized. Not joking. What I hum to.. 10/19 2011 - never forget the 20%
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1068	Posted - 2011.10.31 12:05:00 - [176] - Quote Zombatar wrote: Fighting honourably in 0.0 for sov or other stuff is no issue IMO, but ganking a miner for LOLZ or scamming in JITA that is a different story IMO. I guess all have their own standard for their life some have a really low one and it shows in EVE. Well, your standards are low, that's for sure. Most people grew out of that feudal mindset inGÇª ohGÇª the 16th century or so. Quote: CAUSING PAIN JUST BECAUSE U CAN SHOWS WHO YOU ARE!!! - there is a big difference if you fight for a goal aka SOV, killing high sec miners is just a quest for SELF GRATIFICATION. This brings to mind a great line from Grosse Point Blank: GÇ£psychopaths kills for no reason, I kill for moneyGÇ¥GÇª the difference is that the script writes realised this was a rather silly statement and made the character immediately withdraw it as part of his journey back into some kind of normality and redemption. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos 17	Posted - 2011.10.31 12:10:00 - [177] - Quote Zombatar wrote: Fighting honourably in 0.0 for sov or other stuff is no issue IMO, but ganking a miner for LOLZ or scamming in JITA that is a different story IMO. I guess all have their own standard for their life some have a really low one and it shows in EVE. CAUSING PAIN JUST BECAUSE U CAN SHOWS WHO YOU ARE!!! - there is a big difference if you fight for a goal aka SOV, killing high sec miners is just a quest for SELF GRATIFICATION. But I don't think such ideas work with the average eve player. Answer me this or I am going to mail you with the question. Lets say you have known one of your corp mates for a great deal of time. They have always been an upstanding corp mate and help you out when you need, are polite on voice coms and are generally pleasent to be around. Would you, having only you in game knowledge of them... 1) Ask them to watch over your kids when your out of town? 2) Invest in a business venture of theirs? 3) Put them as a guardian of your kids in the lack of any other relatives being able to do so (as in over a foster home)? 4) Let them house sit for you? 5) Let them borrow your car? Please, I really would like to know.
Nehmen Geld 2	Posted - 2011.10.31 12:11:00 - [178] - Quote Huehuehue wrote: You don't see people saying "well he shouldn't whine it's part of the life" if a guy wanders in bad part of the town and gets beat up do you? But entering low and null sec isn't like going to the bad part of town. It's more akin to playing hopscotch on the freeway. If you don't pay proper attention then add a blindfold to that simile.
Pent'nor 8	Posted - 2011.10.31 12:12:00 - [179] - Quote This thread reminds me of Caprica. But i am glad that people have fun playing the bad guy, or this game would be rather boring for me.
Sirinda Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild 2	Posted - 2011.10.31 12:13:00 - [180] - Quote Heh, my RL job encourages me being an *******, so I tend to be pretty nice when playing Eve. Tippia: Just saying, those miners chose to be targets the same way freighters at the Horn of Africa chose to get boarded by pirates. Hell, going by logic alone, the empires should've been patrolling their hisec belts for years now. I'm deliberately leaving game balance out of the equation here, though.

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