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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
416
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Posted - 2013.10.15 18:18:00 -
[121] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:what's the point of an explosion radius bonus on frigate sized weapons anyway?? rockets already have lower explosion radius than guns sig res
T1/ Faction rockets - 20m T2 Rage - 34m T2 Rage with GMP lv5 - 25.5m
guns - 40m
T1/ Faction Light missiles - 40m T2 Fury - 69m T2 Fury with GMP lv5 - 51.75m
Learn to missile formula. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
554
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Harvey James wrote:what's the point of an explosion radius bonus on frigate sized weapons anyway?? rockets already have lower explosion radius than guns sig res
T1/ Faction rockets - 20m T2 Rage - 34m T2 Rage with GMP lv5 - 25.5m
guns - 40m
T1/ Faction Light missiles - 40m T2 Fury - 69m T2 Fury with GMP lv5 - 51.75m Learn to missile formula.
do explain Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1350
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:30:00 -
[123] - Quote
There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
19
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Posted - 2013.10.15 18:33:00 -
[124] - Quote
Quote:Signature radius: 85(-1)
Also Fozzie, do you think is normal that even after this rebalance dictors will have a much larger sig radius that some cruisers? like really, aren't they supposed to be smaller than a cruiser, in between frigs and cruisers if i'm not mistaken? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
416
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:36:00 -
[125] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two
Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
554
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:38:00 -
[126] - Quote
at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1350
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:39:00 -
[127] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:MeBiatch wrote:There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else.
That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1788
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:48:00 -
[128] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble
Thats a hictor, different ship, nothing stops a dictor from using its MWD in a bubble
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Valterra Craven
126
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Posted - 2013.10.15 18:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
I'm not really understanding your reasoning on this one...
Interceptors are designed to catch and stop ships Interdictors serve the same purposes for fleets...
So why is that capability over powered on one ship and not the the other?
In fact if you look at it, ceptors have the speed and agility that dictors don't making it far easier for them to get out of bubbles in the first place, making something easier for them doesn't really make since... put another way, t3's have this ability and are far more tanky and adaptable than dictors are... yet its not over powered for them???
Where are you drawing the line? |
Vatek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:49:00 -
[130] - Quote
Why do we need 3 dictors that use missiles? The heretic has incredible potential as a laserboat but it simply doesn't have the CPU to properly fit missiles thanks to the huge CPU requirements. |
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Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
555
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Harvey James wrote:at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble Thats a hictor, different ship, nothing stops a dictor from using its MWD in a bubble
mm.. wasn't sure due to it saying warp scramble on anything related to HIC or interdictor bubbles would be nice if they changed it to disruption instead.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Tragedy
The Creepshow
113
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:52:00 -
[132] - Quote
Please stop with split wep systems. We now have 2 1/2 missile dictors 1 1/2 turret. Wtf ccp. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
555
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:54:00 -
[133] - Quote
Vatek wrote:Why do we need 3 dictors that use missiles? The heretic has incredible potential as a laserboat but it simply doesn't have the CPU to properly fit missiles thanks to the huge CPU requirements.
would be nice if it was laser based instead too many drone and missile ships nowadays Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3598
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:00:00 -
[134] - Quote
No idea why gallente needs a third weapon system, and why split weapons.
T2 ships should have smaller sig than T1.
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.15 19:02:00 -
[135] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Quote:Signature radius: 85(-1) Also Fozzie, do you think is normal that even after this rebalance dictors will have a much larger sig radius that some cruisers? like really, aren't they supposed to be smaller than a cruiser, in between frigs and cruisers if i'm not mistaken?
non empty quoting myself:
quote=CCP Fozzie]Interdictors ahoy!
HERETIC Signature radius: 75(-8)
FLYCATCHER Signature radius: 80(-10)
ERIS - Signature radius: 85(-1)
Sabre Signature radius: 70(-5)[/quote]
scimitar: sig radius 65m
guardian: sig radius 75m
oneiros: sig radius 70m
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gascanu
Bearing Srl.
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:03:00 -
[136] - Quote
gascanu wrote:gascanu wrote:Quote:Signature radius: 85(-1) Also Fozzie, do you think is normal that even after this rebalance dictors will have a much larger sig radius that some cruisers? like really, aren't they supposed to be smaller than a cruiser, in between frigs and cruisers if i'm not mistaken? non empty quoting myself: HERETICSignature radius: 75(-8) FLYCATCHER Signature radius: 80(-10) ERIS - Signature radius: 85(-1) SabreSignature radius: 70(-5)
scimitar: sig radius 65m
guardian: sig radius 75m
oneiros: sig radius 70m
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Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
138
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:03:00 -
[137] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:MeBiatch wrote:There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else. That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it It would also make the game bland. Double-bubble dictors did not get popular because two bubbles over each other are simply better than one.
They became popular because they enable tactical options in fleet positioning that a single bubble dictor can't. So reducing this would really just remove tactical depth from the game.
So far I am stunned by the split weapons discussion on ships that rarely fit more than one or two token guns - and the changes are not radical enough for me to see that changing. What I do like though the proposal of a "Can fit 2 interdiction sphere launchers" role limit and then go lighter on their fitting.
The cap/s increase from 1.5 to 2 is huge, and I'd like to see that for myself on sisi; but, a dictor should really not MWD more than 40-60km after dropping its payload before it switches to a short ongrid warp into safety. And the cap was always enough for that.
The vulnerable phase for a dictor in a fleet fight is after dropping the bubble(s) with effectively 0 transversal to the targets. With the sig bloom from MWDs, this is a near guaranteed hit and instalock from HACs, and sometimes even locks from BS. With specifically fit HACs I have little issue, although one could make it a bit harder for them. But really that should be the job of point defense frigates. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1788
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:07:00 -
[138] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:MeBiatch wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:MeBiatch wrote:There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else. That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it It would also make the game bland. Double-bubble dictors did not get popular because two bubbles over each other are simply better than one. They became popular because they enable tactical options in fleet positioning that a single bubble dictor can't. So reducing this would really just remove tactical depth from the game. So far I am stunned by the split weapons discussion on ships that rarely fit more than one or two token guns - and the changes are not radical enough for me to see that changing. What I do like though the proposal of a "Can fit 2 interdiction sphere launchers" role limit and then go lighter on their fitting. The cap/s increase from 1.5 to 2 is huge, and I'd like to see that for myself on sisi; but, a dictor should really not MWD more than 40-60km after dropping its payload before it switches to a short ongrid warp into safety. And the cap was always enough for that. The vulnerable phase for a dictor in a fleet fight is after dropping the bubble(s) with effectively 0 transversal to the targets. With the sig bloom from MWDs, this is a near guaranteed hit and instalock from HACs, and sometimes even locks from BS. With specifically fit HACs I have little issue, although one could make it a bit harder for them. But really that should be the job of point defense frigates.
They became popular because it lets you ignore that stupid bubble timer thats part of the skill, thats really it, now you can launch bubbles every 30 seconds or so instead of every minute and its just a work around their cool down timer, in essence double bubbles makes that skill bonus for lowering bubble launch time a non issue.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2695
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:15:00 -
[139] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it Who? I mean who even flies them right now?
Flycatcher Shield: 1100 HP / EM 0% / EX 50% / K 60% / T 75% Armor: 600 HP / EM 50% / EX 10% / K 55% / T 80% Hull: 650 HP / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 Slots: 8H / 5M / 2L Sig Radius: 70 Additional Interdictors skill bonuses: +10% to AB thrust velocity bonus per level -2% activation AB mass penalty per level +5% to web range per level
The new interceptors can now intercept. Wouldn't it be nice if the new interdictors could actually fill the roll they're named for? You guys were so so bold on the changes to the former... why are you soft shoeing around 'dictors? Everything can kill them.
Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE. |
Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:21:00 -
[140] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: They became popular because it lets you ignore that stupid bubble timer thats part of the skill, thats really it, now you can launch bubbles every 30 seconds or so instead of every minute and its just a work around their cool down timer, in essence double bubbles makes that skill bonus for lowering bubble launch time a non issue.
That assumes the dictor lives for more than 30 seconds in the engagement.
I thought the point was to be able to drop two bubbles back to back, trapping a larger chunk of the enemy fleet. |
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Bocephus Morgen
The Suicide Kings Insidious Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:23:00 -
[141] - Quote
I agree that these changes seem underwhelming. I think the focus should be on tanking. The Heretic getting an armor resist bonus and the Flycatcher a shield one. Both with plenty of slots in the primary tank for a robust fleet interdictor. The Sabre and Eris should both something akin to the Tornado and Talos. Fast, high dps, lightly tanked small gang machines. Bump the Eris up to a 3rd mid at the expense of a low, choose one weapon system (preferably hybrids) and go from there.
The sigs are fine, dictors are already hard enough to kill when they are moving at the speeds they move. |
Tort Funaila
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:24:00 -
[142] - Quote
Not happy at all. First and foremost please no split weapon Eris. The point of this balancing pass is to have people fly these unuaes shipa rifht? Well nobody is going to fly a blaster / rocket eris. It's garbage. Make it a catalyst on steroids with blaster tracking instead of a missile bonus.
The other major changes didn't go quite far enough. Lower the sig and and improve fitting across the board. It shouldn't be such a struggle to fit guns + launcher, nevermind guns + cloak+ launcher.
Finally, move a mid from the flycatcher to a low. It lags in dps and the extra mid goes unused at times.
P.s. please no split weapons. sigpic? |
Eldar Deran
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:30:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: =============================================================================
ERIS - Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level)
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage) 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 4(-1) turrets, 4 launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 750(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1)
=========================
So the Eris is the only ship with mixed weapons - where you need to use all 7/8 slos to get the same damage while having a splitt weapon. Wasn't it sayed that in Minmatar ships it was a bad design choice and you learned from it?
And your "to get the heretic on the same level then the gallente" it got more base amor and a resist per level (wan't that bad design too?). Way to go. (And don't let me start why gallente get the most STRUCTURE in ships - while Amarr get most armor AND resists) Also 5% more damage is a nerf to the damage of the eris when you kill her 10% tracking.
Another point I want to raise:
A solid tackle (TM) needs 3 med slots: propulsion, Scram/dis and a web. An interdictor (thanks to the bubble) can mostlikly skip the disruptor and go for a scram, adding with a web to help the tackle. Only ship with 2 med in a tackle role: the eris.
So basically you take away the choice from gallente by making them the worse of the pack. 2 slots? check worse armor tank? check mixed weapons were you need to fit BOTH the compete with the comeptiton? check
and all these tradeoffs are for ... 0.1 sec allign time and +5m/s speed (vs the heretic).
OR just to rephrase: why would i pick the Eris out of the interdictors?
It might be just a hunch, but is your rebalancing not a bit to hard on the "pulse of current meta"?
Sincerly
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Gigan Amilupar
Legion of Darkwind
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:42:00 -
[144] - Quote
Is there a reason why 3 of the 4 new dictors get missile bonuses? I get that the coercer is laser DPS, but I can't help but feel that having 75% of interdicter hulls using missiles is a bit lackluster. I'm also rather surprised that the Eris is getting a missile bonus instead of a drone one, I would think that a gallente ship would get hybrid/drone before hybrid/missile if we're going with split weapon systems. Seems to me you guys really want dictors to occupy the small-gang missile boat role (with the exception of the sabre because your trying to remove minmatar split weapon bonuses, I guess?). |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4282
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:44:00 -
[145] - Quote
What about rolling the interdiction launcher bonus into the base timer of the module and adding a 7.5% to hull resistance in its place? . |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
22
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Posted - 2013.10.15 19:54:00 -
[146] - Quote
Bocephus Morgen wrote:
The sigs are fine, dictors are already hard enough to kill when they are moving at the speeds they move.
what game are you playing ?
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Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:57:00 -
[147] - Quote
I'm sorry, despite the good effort, this is NOT the way to go with the rebalance.
Dictors need 3 things to work properly to make them unique and useful for their price.
1. Get rid of Warp Interdiction Spheres and make 'dictors and hictors the only ship able to field Mobile warp warp disruptors. Hictors would keep their highslot point. This frees up their fitting quite a bit, and makes them invaluable ships to have in null and wh space. Hictors are as valued as they are because they not only perform a unique and extremely valuable role (supercap points), they also have the fitting and toughness to be useful in a brawl. Making Dictors the "smaller" versions of these also keeps in line with the skill progression they have, just as you have been doing with Assault frigates and HACs.
2. Drop a high slot (or two) for fitting slots. If Interdictors become the only ships that can field Mobile Warp disruptors, they don't have to fit the warp interdiciton sphere launcher, and can balance their fitting a bit better. The inherent problem with destroyer balancing is that CCP is still actually stuck on the tier system, in respect to slots for ship classes to a degree. Since the destroyer falls between the cruiser and frigate size classes, but it also has an in-born role with its inception, it suffers from slot misappropriation. Interdictors are not t1 destroyers, and thus do not need a full 8 high slots for direct offensive power. Dropping one or two highs and keeping the missile or gun limit on each to 6 would allow ships like the flycatcher to finally, FINALLY be freed from the horror that is having a single lowslot. It is beyond awful that dictors got balanced into a corner like this, and is one of the many reasons that they are underused in direct pvp situations outside of popping bubbles for camps.
3. Up their defenses. While it makes sense that interceptors wouldn't get a big HP or resist buff, I implore CCP to find some room to appropriate decent resists. Something on the order of force recon boats would be acceptable, and the level of EWAR frigs would be perfect. They are EXTREMELY high-value targets that remain easy to catch. The fact remains that regardless of how you try to balance their speed or sig radius, there remains an entire weight class of frigates beneath it, many of which are more than capable of chewing up and spitting out any interdictor in a direct engagement. While ships like the Sabre are fairly powerful, they still lack appropriate defenses for their price tag and role, and the fact that they have less HP than their t1 counterparts is a miserable situation for them to be in.
Let them into the light a bit so they can fight, please. They are all beautiful, wonderful vessels that have clear potential that is being squandered by an outdated and stale game mechanic. If you don't get rid of interdiction spheres, at LEAST drop their fitting needs and increase the staying time of interdiction sphere bubbles significantly. And fix the damnable rate of fire bonus to something like bubble time or something useful. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
171
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
I see the issue with the interdictors, and it is not necessarily ccp's fault.
We fit them in one of two ways.
1) Double bubble with a cloaking device (3 highs already taken, with the cloak sucking cpu up) 2) Single bubble. 3) Pure damage (no one does this)
Were pretty much all looking at this as a double bubble cloak setup and saying "it sucks" (well it kinda does). The single bubble is not very appealing beyond a very small gang due to its reactivation delay.
Interdictors are in a very odd area. No one wants to fit them for damage cause they'll probably die immediately, those who try get shoehorned into fitting a double bubble+cloak.
Attack those idea's and you'll have a much happier interdictor community. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:14:00 -
[149] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Does anyone else think 6/6 for Eris would work best? Full rack of hybrids? Gank Eris, anyone?
Or is that too stronk?
It's perfect considering that's the direction they started taking with the Ares. Equal viability for both is what they're supposedly investing in, so it would be kind of nice if they could actually follow through with what they said they would instead of half-assing it.
Best slot setup for 6/6 gun/missile setup on the eris would be 7/2/5. Would allow for good dps. Heretic should get 7/3/4, I think.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2695
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:They have to be somewhat frail, as they have a very unique job, stop a fleet from moving. So I guess this is why I'm bummed. Since when is an eve ship so hyper specialized that it's ONLY use is in a gang. Every other combat ship can fit in some way for 1v1 PvP. I don't know how you could fit a dictor for that because against anything 1v1 it dies. The dictor could be a solo pirate ship... a really interesting one too. Maybe they should split it into 2 classes as suggested here:
xttz wrote:The best way to address this (although probably too late now) is in a similar way to how old command ships worked:
1) Give the old interdictors stats geared toward small-scale pvp / gatecamping, much like the proposals in the OP 2) Use the newer destroyer models to make 'fleet interdictors' with bonuses to speed / agility / EHP.
Except #1 isn't going to happen with the stats in the OP because it's still a pod wrapped in tin foil that immobilizes itself on the attack.
Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE. |
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