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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7813

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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Interdictors ahoy! The single biggest buff these guys are getting is from the already announced warp speed changes, where their 8au/s will allow them to get on their targets extremely quickly. Otherwise we've focused on getting the three under-performers up closer to the Sabre's power level while maintaining their own distinctive styles. The class has lost a fair bit of sig across the board, and the Heretic, Flycatcher and Eris all see very significant mass decreases which lead to them gaining a lot of speed while under mwd.
SPECIFICS
HERETIC - The Heretic gets its missile bonuses applied to lights as well as rockets, and gains an extra launcher for people who want to fit it with damage in mind. It also receives an armor resistance bonus that helps it compete with the Eris for armor tanked dictoring. The combination of the mass decrease and the base speed increase lead to MWD speeds much faster than it currently enjoys and much quicker turns.
Amarr Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity per level (was 5% bonus to rocket explosion velocity per level) 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to rocket damage per level)
Interdictors Bonuses: 4% bonus to armor resistances per level (was 5% bonus to missile velocity per level) 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 3M, 3L; 4 turrets, 7(+1) launchers Fittings: 60(+3) PWG, 240(+10) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 600 / 750(-1) / 700 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 750(+187.5) / 375s() / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310(+11) / 3.5(-0.019) / 1280000(-91000) / 6.21(-0.48) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 525 / 7(+1) Sensor strength: 12(+2) Radar Signature radius: 75(-8)
=============================================================================
FLYCATCHER - Flycatcher gets its kinetic damage and missile precision bonuses increased significantly in strength, as well as picking up some fittings and shield HP. It also enjoys a big mass decrease which improve MWD speeds a lot, but I've upped the inertia as well to keep turning speeds in line.
Caldari Destroyer Bonuses: 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 3% bonus to light missile explosion velocity) 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Velocity per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level (was 5%) 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 1L; 2(-1) turrets, 6 launchers Fittings: 60(+4) PWG, 270(+5) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800(+49) / 600 / 650(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 650(+150) / 325s(-8.33) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 315 / 3.4(+0.53) / 1350000(-222000) / 6.36s(+0.1) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 475 / 7 Sensor strength: 14(+2) Gravimetric Signature radius: 80(-10)
=============================================================================
ERIS - Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.
Gallente Frigate Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level)
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage) 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 4(-1) turrets, 4 launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 750(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1)
=============================================================================
Sabre - The Sabre is the baseline for these ships and is seeing the smallest changes. We're taking away a bit of its agility to put it in line with the others, but giving it some more shield HP and a significant drop in sig to compensate.
Minmatar Destroyer Bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret falloff per level 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 2L; 7 turrets, 1(-1) launchers Fittings: 58 PWG, 230(+2) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750(+50) / 650(-1) / 600 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 600 / 300s(+8.333) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 550 / 7(+1) Sensor strength: 11(+2) Ladar Signature radius: 70(-5) Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Sala Cameron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
119
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
FIRST |

Gummi Worm
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
24
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
FIRST
page |

Rendiff
Funk Soul Brothers High Rollers
32
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
I might actually have train for these now. |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1528
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why do all races have missile ships now?
I don't get it.. We don't see lasers or Ac's being flavour for other races :S BYDI recruitment closed-ish |

Lukas Rox
Aideron Technologies
34
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Reserved for now... Blogging about EVE on http://pozniak.pl/ |

Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
134
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sabre .... Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 600 / 300s(+8.333) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23)
How does this work? Cap stays the same, recharge time goes up, but cap/s improves? Also, I weep whenever a Minmatar ship is the least-agile in a ship class. But this all looks interesting, can't wait to try it on Sisi. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
982
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Why do all races have missile ships now?
I don't get it.. We don't see lasers or Ac's being flavour for other races :S
I believe the idea was always that missiles aren't something completely race-specific. It's just that most hulls in the game were awful, and the best Caldari hulls were missileboats, so everyone got used to Caldari using missiles and everyone else not using anything. |

BAJRAN BALI
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc. Monkeys with Guns.
21
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Love the changes! |

Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
And yet another ...
Buff everything, nerf Minmatar.
Holy crap - its like the end of days for minmatar.
Missile boats ahoy - with no range.
Autocannon nerformama - TEs down the pan.
Worst Caps by a staggering margin.
Command ship loveliness perforated with shotgun.
Lowest DPS marauder FTL (for the loss).
Dump on minmatars speed and agility advantages - they cant compensate with worst weapon systems. The is no 'flavour' in the racial minmatar its porridge (with lots of salt). |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7815

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Posted - 2013.10.15 13:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sabre .... Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 600 / 300s(+8.333) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23) How does this work? Cap stays the same, recharge time goes up, but cap/s improves? Also, I weep whenever a Minmatar ship is the least-agile in a ship class. But this all looks interesting, can't wait to try it on Sisi.
Typo on my part, I didn't have the change in the Sabres base cap (+162.5) in the OP. Fixed now, thanks. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Leppales Beddelver
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
I feel like this doesn't go far enough on a class that really needs more major changes. They all seem very similar. |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
4584
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Mioelnir wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sabre .... Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 600 / 300s(+8.333) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23) How does this work? Cap stays the same, recharge time goes up, but cap/s improves? Also, I weep whenever a Minmatar ship is the least-agile in a ship class. But this all looks interesting, can't wait to try it on Sisi. Typo on my part, I didn't have the change in the Sabres base cap (+162.5) in the OP. Fixed now, thanks.
Need one more edit Fozzie:
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 60(+162.5) / 300s(+8.333) / 2(+0.5)
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |

Tenaris Zeratul
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
New Eris is garbage. Please make it either missiles or turrets. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
542
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
i love the way you say significant sig radius reduction and then just scrape 5 off...
T1 destroyers all have much lower sig radius than these ranging from 56 - 72 T2 interdictors 75 - 85 after a supposed significant sig radius reduction ... LOL at you Fozzie  Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
18
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
nice sabre nerf. good thing you left them so every frigate in the game can still pwn them 1v1. pathetic.
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Drake Doe
Flatulaction
277
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why not make the Eris a drone boat so they're not all so similar? "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
677
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Not sure about the Eris to be honest. Sure, it has the option to get the highest DPS, but I really don't like the forced split between weapons. Why does Minmatar T1 get 7 highs with 6 guns and 6 missiles and double bonus to both, and a T2 Gallente ship gets 8 highs with 4/4, forcing a split in MagStab/BallisticControl, the very thing that was the reason for the Minmatar type split bonuses/fittings?
Maybe it works on a ship of this size, but I fear for the Roden line if this is the new standard. Either the Enyo will become a 4 highslot 2 missile 2 guns or it will have to swap manufacturer. |

Kassasis Dakkstromri
Terra Incognita Insidious Empire
133
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
It just so happens that I am totally ready and skilled to fly these... just as this is coming to light....
Very pleased - will make lots of Tears!
Yarr! |

Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
289
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Mioelnir wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sabre .... Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 600 / 300s(+8.333) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23) How does this work? Cap stays the same, recharge time goes up, but cap/s improves? Also, I weep whenever a Minmatar ship is the least-agile in a ship class. But this all looks interesting, can't wait to try it on Sisi. Typo on my part, I didn't have the change in the Sabres base cap (+162.5) in the OP. Fixed now, thanks.
You put 60 instead of 600. Otherwise, this looks nice. The armor resists on the heretic especially, since I have memories of putting 2 400mm's and 2 c-type adaptives on an AB eris to go along with an ahac gang and actually surviving. |
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Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
544
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
is there any chance of sorting out the weird slot layouts? Flycatcher has 1 low slot .... Saber has 2 lowslots... Eris has 2 mids yet Heretic has 3mid and 3 lows ... the balance being what exactly here????
feel free to remove a few highs to spread around a bit and just increase the damage bonuses or the extra lows could replace the damage with damage mods .... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Lorac Gemini
The Order of Forever
1
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Gallente Frigate Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level)
I think you meant Gallente Destroyer instead of Frigate. Looks good though! |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
544
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Also their tank is pretty woeful about 25% less than T1 destroyers along with a much larger sig radius ...... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1810
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Capt ****** wrote:And yet another ...
Buff everything, nerf Minmatar.
Holy crap - its like the end of days for minmatar.
Missile boats ahoy - with no range.
Autocannon nerformama - TEs down the pan.
Worst Caps by a staggering margin.
Command ship loveliness perforated with shotgun.
Lowest DPS marauder FTL (for the loss).
Dump on minmatars speed and agility advantages - they cant compensate with worst weapon systems. The is no 'flavour' in the racial minmatar its porridge (with lots of salt).
Possibly THE most fitting name for a character ever devised. |

Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
86
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Current fleet fits remains, marginal changes. I am pleased also even buffed that this is even worth posting and a "feature" of Rubicon.  Shadoo > whoever was the first nyx on grid Shadoo > THANK GOD YOU ARE A SMART MAN and fitted the best tank in PL Shadoo > (ie. cyno) |

Jack bubu
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
461
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
i was hoping for more radical changes that improve survivability, atleast a similar role bonus like the interceptor MWD signature bonus would have been great.
as it is they remain throwaway ships you put your alt in and hope you get a bubble off before you die. |

Vanilla Vila
labour anal
1
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Another dumb 1/2 guns/1/2 missiles boat.
Scrap the Eris. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
545
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:i was hoping for more radical changes that improve survivability, atleast a similar role bonus like the interceptor MWD signature bonus would have been great.
as it is they remain throwaway ships you put your alt in and hope you get a bubble off before you die.
mm... at least they get a role bonus the EAF don't despite being a T2 role based ship .. go figure Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1815
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
ITT: Sabre is the Rifter of dictors, and still the only one with enough fittings to do basically whatever it wants thanks to the miniscule fitting requirements of autocannons. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
678
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 14:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff and Rocket velocity per level 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 7(+2) turrets, 7(+3) launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 600(-51) / 700 / 800(+49) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1)
Basically, 7 launchers and 7 turrets with bonus to range of both systems. I would fly this, but not the proposed one |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1620
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
I have only turret skills trained, so I only have one reasonable choice of dictor? It'd be nice to have two choices. |

David Kir
Statement of Intent
281
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
And there we go, the Minmatar ships has the worst agility of the lot. Yup, makes sense.
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Sparkus Volundar
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
72
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
nm . |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
545
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 14:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
again with the token drone on ships .... point being what exactly? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
412
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Why are gallente all of a sudden getting really terrible sig radius on everything? And why are caldari ships not slow anymore?
Quote:Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses.
Oh god not again, make it stop. I like split weapons, but they need to be done right.
Quote:The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.
Can I take this as a sign that you guys are never going to fix oversized prop mods, and that it's all working as intended? This is really the most disappointing thing here. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1620
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 14:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Can I take this as a sign that you guys are never going to fix oversized prop mods, and that it's all working as intended? This is really the most disappointing thing here.
Do we start talking about oversized tank mods at the same time 'cos the whole 'fit 1600mm/LSE on cruisers' thing doesn't make any sense |

Anna Djan
Banana Corp
68
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.
Quite disappointed.
From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember).
|

Rynnik
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
117
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Looks good to me. I am looking forward to messing around with these on release. |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
413
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 14:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Can I take this as a sign that you guys are never going to fix oversized prop mods, and that it's all working as intended? This is really the most disappointing thing here. Do we start talking about oversized tank mods at the same time 'cos the whole 'fit 1600mm/LSE on cruisers' thing doesn't make any sense
LSE is just an 800 plate, but yeah it could use more fitting and an actual penalty. We can talk about oversized active shield tanking mods if you like, those are certainly broken. |

BORG HELLinHEAVEN
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
8
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Make interdictors imune to their own bubles :), not imune to others bubles |
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Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
While it's a good first try, I guess, I am not happy. The good is the attempt to make the other dictors come in line with the Sabre and there's some good first steps. However, there are a couple of things that are disappointing:
A completely untanked Sabre has 15% less EHP than a completely untanked Thrasher with, even with the Rubicon changes, 25% higher signature radius. The EHP and sig radius shouldn't be worse than the T1 counterpart.
Also, fitting a double bubble dictor, which is very common usually gimps the rest of the ship because of CPU constraints. I can't EFT the new fittings, but can lasers, hybrids, etc., even the smallest variety be fit to a double bubble Eris or Heretic?
In my opinion, Dictors should have a little bit more survivability whether through a further reduction in sig radius or a buff to raw hit points. |

Nartel Vortok
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
9
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Anna Djan wrote:I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.
Quite disappointed.
From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember).
Why would you use a dictor out of nullsec? The entire point of it is to bubble, not to be some bad gimmick lowsec pvp ship. |

Puikko
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Anna Djan wrote:I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.
Quite disappointed.
From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember).
u wot
dictors are exclusively 0.0 boats. you don't fly them in empire, simple as that. |

Longdrinks
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
17
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
everything looks cool! great job ccp |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
679
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 14:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
David Kir wrote:And there we go, the Minmatar ships has the worst agility of the lot. Yup, makes sense.
Well, it has the best speed and with a nano it's the most agile and speediest dictor. Standard lowslot is nano and gyro, and it will still perform amazingly. The Sabre is not magically **** just because the other dictors are not. |

advii
Kossu and Keppana Inc.
29
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
I think you should remove fitting requirements from the bubble machine and give all dictors a role bonus that allows them to fit a maximum of 2 launchers. That way you don't have to gimp the fit to be able to do the intended job. Double co-processor and no guns fleet dictor fit anyone? |

Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2013.10.15 14:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nartel Vortok wrote:Anna Djan wrote:I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.
Quite disappointed.
From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember).
Why would you use a dictor out of nullsec? The entire point of it is to bubble, not to be some bad gimmick lowsec pvp ship.
Training for the Alliance Tournament. |

Beffah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
22
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Posted - 2013.10.15 15:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
The slot layout for the flycatcher is awful and is really out of line with the rest of the class. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
546
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
advii wrote:I think you should remove fitting requirements from the bubble machine and give all dictors a role bonus that allows them to fit a maximum of 2 launchers. That way you don't have to gimp the fit to be able to do the intended job. Double co-processor and no guns fleet dictor fit anyone?
perhaps add a new bonus to interdictor bonuses that reduce CPU need for Interdiction Sphere Launchers Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
170
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'm somewhat split on the split weapon system of the Eris also. It would make more sense to make it a droneboat.
Then again just hybrid guns would itself probably cause issues...
Dunno. Eris still doesn't impress Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
|

scimichar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
The others look closer to the standard, the sabre. They are still only suicide bubble ships though. |

Anna Djan
Banana Corp
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
Puikko wrote:Anna Djan wrote:I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.
Quite disappointed.
From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember).
u wot dictors are exclusively 0.0 boats. you don't fly them in empire, simple as that.
As i said, with the re-balance I was hoping that they are NOT exclusive to null sec, as they are the only tech 2 destroyer.... |

Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
170
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
advii wrote:I think you should remove fitting requirements from the bubble machine and give all dictors a role bonus that allows them to fit a maximum of 2 launchers. That way you don't have to gimp the fit to be able to do the intended job. Double co-processor and no guns fleet dictor fit anyone?
Makes sense, but then again they may become solo pwnmobiles and take over the job of a interceptor (I'd become. Interceptor merged with an assault frigate merged with a gank Brutix).
Then again it is a destroyer... Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|

Jayce Shadowleaf
Hoover Inc. Black Legion.
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:06:00 -
[54] - Quote
I'd fix double bubble fitting by either make it easier to fit weapons + double bubble + tank + mwd or limiting dictors to one bubble, and then take a long look at the Flycatcher's slot layout before fiddling with weapon bonuses on the hull. |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1815
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:07:00 -
[55] - Quote
Harvey James wrote: perhaps add a new bonus to interdictors skills bonuses that reduce CPU need for Interdiction Sphere Launchers
A per-level bonus might be nice. Or they could just reduce the fittings on the launcher, since this is the only ship that fits it. I realize all ships are supposed to have fittings tradeoffs, but some of the ones that come with these ships border on silly. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
641
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
With amarr, minmatar, and now gallente ship getting bonuses to omnidamage for missiles, it's getting quite frustrating to see Caldaris still being stuck into the kinetic range... at least if hybrids weren't making kinetic damage it would be somewhat balanced, but face a caldari with kinetic-specific resists and you can easily double your tank. G££ <= Me |

Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:13:00 -
[57] - Quote
Flying dictor in a big fleet is still suicide. And now it's even more pointless because of MJD.
Did you think about giving skilled dictor pilots a way to survive? |

Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
114
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:15:00 -
[58] - Quote
David Kir wrote:And there we go, the Minmatar ships has the worst agility of the lot. Yup, makes sense.
In the name of the balance anything else is secondary, no matter how similar the boats end up or what the lore says. |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
what a disappointment... 
ccp are you guys aware that atm dictors are the ships that die first in every fleet fight; the best tank you can fit on a dictor is cloaking device... are you guys at CCP aware that most ppl don't even fit guns on theyr dictors? hint: is not cose they lack dps 
more dps is nice and cool, but what dictors really need is to survive more than 10" after you warp in or decloack. dictor rolle is to bubble fleets, f**k dps, why do you think most ppl are not even fitting guns to they'r dictors? cose they die so fast you won't even have time to lock something....
make them imune to bubles, they will fit this rolle much better than ceptors, give them more mobility /speed, reduce sig radius more, not with lol 5m, all in all give them better chances to do thy're job ...
|

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
982
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:As i said, with the re-balance I was hoping that they are NOT exclusive to null sec, as they are the only tech 2 destroyer....
then complain that there aren't any other t2 dessie hulls, not that the ship class that exists purely to drop bubbles on things isn't useful in sec levels which don't have bubbles. |
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
664
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Why are we seeing an Eris with split weapon bonuses? I thought the new Roden would be able to fit either/or, not be compelled to fit both. With only 4 turrets and 4 launchers, one is forced to use split weapons. At least with 5 turrets you could fit a cloak and 2 sphere launchers and have a single weapon system. Now with that set up, we'll be forced to fit an oddball launcher or turret.
Please fix the hardpoint mounts to not force Eris pilots to use split weapons. You guys phased it out of Minmatar T1, made a GREAT way to choose which weapon system you wanted for other split weapon ships (namely Minmatar Fleet Issues), and fixed the Ares' Roden bonuses for either/or. Now, you have a throwback, old-style split weapons system on the Eris.
It really should be a ship (and indeed the whole Roden line) that lets you choose which weapons system you want to use instead of only 4 of each weapon hardpoint. It's not even about damage output. Balance that around having all of one weapon on the ship. It's about optimal range/max flight time, instant weapon damage, etc. This is a step backward, Fozzie. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
95
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
Nartel Vortok wrote:Anna Djan wrote:I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.
Quite disappointed.
From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember).
Why would you use a dictor out of nullsec? The entire point of it is to bubble, not to be some bad gimmick lowsec pvp ship. Interdictors are actually some of the best ships to blitz the SoE epic arc. Due to their high warp speed making all the traveling faster (which is getting an overall buff) and their ability to mulch NPC frigates.
This is a very tiny niche role but it is a hi sec one. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
285
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:31:00 -
[63] - Quote
Call me crazy, but if Interdictors are the only ships that can fit launcher, why give all four hulls the same bonus to the launchers?
Just set the rate of fire to whatever value is appropriate, and give the hulls a real bonus to the class.
|

Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Given that bonuses that boost only 1 damage type are only about a 1/3rd* as effective as bonuses that boost all damage types *1/4 would be the raw maths , but there are second weakest resist cases to consider.
Rough effective turret/launcher comparison.
Eris 6 + 6 + drone = 13 Sabre 8.75 + 1 = 9.75 Heretic 8.75 + 1 = 9.75 Flycatcher 7 + 1 = 8
Given that the fly only has 1 slot for damage upgrade compared to multiple on other hulls it looks hopeless outclassed tbh. An extra launcher slot would be in order or a better damage bonus. maybe 5% rof.
Also Flycatcher needs a name change.
|

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
95
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Call me crazy, but if Interdictors are the only ships that can fit launcher, why give all four hulls the same bonus to the launchers?
Just set the rate of fire to whatever value is appropriate, and give the hulls a real bonus to the class.
I agree. The 15% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level from the Talwar comes to mind here. Then they might have a chance of getting out of a fight alive. |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
803
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:HERETIC - The Heretic gets its missile bonuses applied to lights as well as rockets, and gains an extra launcher for people who want to fit it with damage in mind... Would have sounded awesome and Amarr like if it was on its lonesome, but why does all the two other revised Interdictors get to have more damage without even wanting to fit for damage and on top of better raw damage they also get application of said damage ..
It is fine to let the Flycatcher be the ultimate missile spammer with application+damage+range and the two others split range and application .. but why, oh why the raw damage discrepancy?
Considering that the Heretic has worse application I'd say it ought to have more raw damage than the others .. as in same 10%/lvl with the seven launchers.
PS: They will never get to use any combat ability they may have in any measurable sense after the new Interceptors go live, forever destined to drop bubbles in suicide runs. One way to head that off at the pass would be to distinguish between anchored and dropped bubbles and allow the latter to override nullifier bonuses .. ie. Interdictors as straight up hard counters to Interceptors. |

Tetsedah Izuto
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:41:00 -
[67] - Quote
Split weapon systems on the Eris making it remain useless and unused? -1 do not support. |

lllya Kuryaki
Rionnag Alba The Fourth District
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:42:00 -
[68] - Quote
NOOOOOO !!! You doint it WRONG CCP, give a SigRadius Bonus to poor Dictors thats always die in a big dallas lelo multipass Boom in the first 2 seconds of a engage coz the ship is just big like a cruicer with mwd ON !!!
Dictors needs sigradius love !. |

XvXTeacherVxV
S.E.N.T.I.N.E.L.
30
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
ERIS - Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level)
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage) 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 4(-1) turrets, 4 launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 750(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1)
Very underwhelming. Those hybrids weapons on there will have a lot of trouble tracking frigs I think. I would be a lot more enthusiastic if you got rid of the split weapon system on this ship and made the Eris more like the catalyst's big scary brother:
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking per level.
Interdictors Bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 7(+2) turrets
Now that's a ship I'd fly.
Also, get rid of every drone bay that's only 5 m3. Having a bay that size is like getting a 3 cent raise. What's the point? EVE Forums need a button right next to "like" that says "you need to calm your silly self down." |

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
757
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
Try again on the Eris, Fozzie. The "new generation" split weapon systems (as seen on the Minmatar Fleet Issue ships) are amazing and done 100% correctly. The Eris' new split weapon system is exactly the same "old generation" design that was deemed as bad and worthless and then targeted for removal. |
|

Denuo Secus
199
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Try again on the Eris, Fozzie. The "new generation" split weapon systems (as seen on the Minmatar Fleet Issue ships) are amazing and done 100% correctly. The Eris' new split weapon system is exactly the same "old generation" design that was deemed as bad and worthless and then targeted for removal.
This |

Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
666
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Try again on the Eris, Fozzie. The "new generation" split weapon systems (as seen on the Minmatar Fleet Issue ships) are amazing and done 100% correctly. The Eris' new split weapon system is exactly the same "old generation" design that was deemed as bad and worthless and then targeted for removal. Exactly this. Roden should be the armor alternative to the Minmatar Fleet's shield split weapon bonus.
So, if a pilot wanted a shield ship with either/or-style split weapons, he can choose a Minmatar Fleet Issue. Or, if he prefers armor either/or-style split weapons, Roden is available for this pilot. A total throwback 4 turret, 4 launcher for 8 high slots is a split weapons system if I ever saw one. Put it out of its misery once and for all.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |

Sokor Loro
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
61
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:53:00 -
[73] - Quote
The dps increases are nice, but they desperately need a boost to survivability, preferably on the sig side so they can actually do more than drop their two bubbles and immediately die in a large fleet fight.
I've never understood why their survivability is worse than their T1 counterparts. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
982
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
Fitting two weapon systems is literally nothing but a downside. Having the option to choose one of two, however, is a neat point of flexibility and a good way of differentiating a ship from others. |

Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
352
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:55:00 -
[75] - Quote
split weapons no Eris... NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
They're all gonna laugh at you!
Honestly, dictors should have the bubble immunity, not interceptors.
Flycatcher; plx swap a mid for a low. kthx.
Sabre; why reduce agility? It's fine to have one race that is better at mobility than all the others, just so long as it's not head-and-shoulders above them. The Sabre is now the slowest to align of all 4 dictors. It is still the fastest. But it seems perhaps you over-nerfed its agility. Free Ripley Weaver! |

Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 15:57:00 -
[76] - Quote
As I already mentioned in the thread about Interceptors, giving missile bonuses to Gallente boats is rather silly. I would prefer some kind of a drone bonus in its place along with a 25/50 m^3 drone bandwidth/bay.
Other dictors look fine at first glance, but in its current form, Eris is a still gonna be something most players wouldn't touch with a sh***y pole. |

Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:00:00 -
[77] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:David Kir wrote:And there we go, the Minmatar ships has the worst agility of the lot. Yup, makes sense.
Well, it has the best speed and with a nano it's the most agile and speediest dictor. Standard lowslot is nano and gyro, and it will still perform amazingly. The Sabre is not magically **** just because the other dictors are not.
Well DUH. fit an agility mod and its agile! And then fit one on 'any other dictor' and its less so. Its a nerf!
Minmatar are meant to be small and agile and fragile in place of slow and tanky. This puts them at the opposite end of the whole minatar ethos. |

Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1382
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
These ships were originally designed to work on the 'alternate' weapon system from their T1 counterpart.
Minmatar - Artilllery to AC for the Sabre Caldari - Hybrids to Missiles/Rockets for the Flycatcher. Amarr - Lasers to Missiles/Rockets for the Herectic. Gallente - I really don't know what the **** they were doing with this ship.
Since 'the beginning' we have introduced new T1 destroyers that work off of the alternate weapon system. The alternate weapon systems per race for that matter has changed! You could have redone these ships from the ground up with new weapon systems, bonuses, slot layouts, etc. It's not as if any ship other then the Sabre or the occasional Flycatcher saw the light of day.
The changes proposed are the bare minimum to make the class function and are a rather lazy 'get it done fast' attempt at rebalance. It's rather obvious what the ships were designed to do. Go back to the drawing board and make it happen. |

Zilero
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
105
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Interdictors ahoy! Otherwise we've focused on getting the three under-performers up closer to the Sabre's power level while maintaining their own distinctive styles.
So basically what you have done is:
Nerf sabre slightly for large fleets.
Improve everything else slightly for large fleets.
Where is the buff to the other dictors for small gangs and/or solo gate camp?
Why did you REMOVE a gun slot from the Eris instead of adding one?
Seriously, this update is ******* terrible.
|

Aram Kachaturian
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
I'm ok with those decent changes.
This game needs new ridiculously expensive clothes in the Nexus Store tho, it's one hour work for CCP and eternal swag for us.
Golden cane, golden hat por favor |
|

xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
160
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:13:00 -
[81] - Quote
The best way to address this (although probably too late now) is in a similar way to how old command ships worked:
1) Give the old interdictors stats geared toward small-scale pvp / gatecamping, much like the proposals in the OP 2) Use the newer destroyer models to make 'fleet interdictors' with bonuses to speed / agility / EHP. |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
16
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:14:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Interdictors ahoy! The single biggest buff these guys are getting is from the already announced warp speed changes, where their 8au/s will allow them to get on their targets extremely quickly.
ahahaha, great rebalance Fozzie: their 8au/s will allow them to get on their targets extremely quickly.
so they will get to their targets "extremely quikly" so they can ... die "extremely quickly", eh? i get it now ... great "rebalance" |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
550
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:17:00 -
[83] - Quote
shouldn't interdictors be regarded as interceptor versions of T1 dessies like inties are of T1 frigs ... i.e. smaller faster and able to use MWD's effectively without being popped immediately?? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
16
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:25:00 -
[84] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:shouldn't interdictors be regarded as interceptor versions of T1 dessies like inties are of T1 frigs ... i.e. smaller faster and able to use MWD's effectively without being popped immediately??
dictors are t2 version of t1 destroiers, they are more skill intensive, more expensive and... and that's it; oh and they can drop bubbles so they can die in it;
|

Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:28:00 -
[85] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:It really should be a ship (and indeed the whole Roden line) that lets you choose which weapons system you want to use instead of only 4 of each weapon hardpoint. It's not even about damage output. Balance that around having all of one weapon on the ship. It's about optimal range/max flight time, instant weapon damage, etc. This is a step backward, Fozzie.
I have to second this. I really don't want to see missile split weapon systems again, especially after this was fixed in the Minmatar T1 line. The Khanid lineup changes to add light missiles on top of rockets are nice, as it gives Amarr ships a secondary weapon system that actually works for the range the ships operate at, but the Roden line with split systems is just terrible. Please set up bonuses similar to the Scythe Fleet Issue - to use your words:
"Instead of forcing both weapon systems it gives both as viable choices." -CCP Fozzie |

Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
347
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:31:00 -
[86] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Why do all races have missile ships now?
I don't get it.. We don't see lasers or Ac's being flavour for other races :S
I would not mind having a Caldari Laser ship on another hull. I'm just saying. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2694
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Harvey James wrote:shouldn't interdictors be regarded as interceptor versions of T1 dessies like inties are of T1 frigs ... i.e. smaller faster and able to use MWD's effectively without being popped immediately?? dictors are t2 version of t1 destroiers, they are more skill intensive, more expensive and... and that's it; oh and they can drop bubbles so they can die in it; Agreed. Still flying coffins.
Hay CCP, have you guys thought about giving them bubble/interdiction nullification like the Interceptors? If they could MWD around through bubbles they'd be worth something... but right now they are just racing faster to a certain death.
Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE. |

Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty.
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:49:00 -
[88] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Try again on the Eris, Fozzie. The "new generation" split weapon systems (as seen on the Minmatar Fleet Issue ships) are amazing and done 100% correctly. The Eris' new split weapon system is exactly the same "old generation" design that was deemed as bad and worthless and then targeted for removal.
Well put.
It seems like the damage and speed bonuses move these ships toward filling a T2 dessie role, rather than helping much with their current 0.0 role, which requires much more survivability than they currently or will, given these changes, have. It would be cool to use them as solo, T2 dessie platforms (like some currently do with the Sabre) but it would be better to also be able to tank them (sig tank esp.) well to survive for more than a second in null.
|

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
126
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:53:00 -
[89] - Quote
It looks like these are being designed with a 7 weapons + bubble setup in mind with very little consideration being given to the 6 weapons + bubble + cloak setup. The Heretic looks like it would be in the worse shape with the cloak setup since it would drop to 7.25 weapon slots with only 1 damage bonus, at least the Sabre still gets a tracking and damage bonus.
I like the idea of the Eris being able to fit blasters or missiles, but with the limit at 4 of either of them you are forcing us to fit both; increase the turret and launcher slots to 6 so that people can choose one or the other, and use both only when they want to go for max damage. Isn't that what you did for the Scythe FI?
Another problem I have with the Eris is the 2 mids; the ship gets a turret falloff bonus which naturally points towards using blasters, but with only 2 mids you can take either a web or a scram but not both. The only other blaster ship with 2 mids is the Catalyst, but at least that one gets a 10% tracking bonus to make up for the lack of a web.
Would changing the Eris' layout to 7H, 3M, 4L; 6 turrets, 6 launchers leave it in too good a shape? People can still reach a 10.5 weapon slots equivalent by using 6 turrets and a launcher or vice versa, if they fit an interdiction probe launcher they can match the Flycatcher's 9 weapon slots and if they go for the popular bubble + cloak they will be at 7.5 weapon slots which is still better than the Heretic and Sabre in a similar setup. |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
687
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:57:00 -
[90] - Quote
Capt ****** wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:David Kir wrote:And there we go, the Minmatar ships has the worst agility of the lot. Yup, makes sense.
Well, it has the best speed and with a nano it's the most agile and speediest dictor. Standard lowslot is nano and gyro, and it will still perform amazingly. The Sabre is not magically **** just because the other dictors are not. Well DUH. fit an agility mod and its agile! And then fit one on 'any other dictor' and its less so. Its a nerf! Minmatar are meant to be small and agile and fragile in place of slow and tanky. This puts them at the opposite end of the whole minatar ethos.
Well DUH right back at you, the Gallente and Amarr are both armor tank, so no way you fit nano on them, the Caldari has ONE lowslot, and you fit either DC or BCU. Minmatar is shield tanked with 2 lows for gyro and nano. |
|

SmarncaV2
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:57:00 -
[91] - Quote
What's up with split weapons on Eris?
Rockets + Hybrids
Dude WTF
|

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
96
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:07:00 -
[92] - Quote
I propose replacing the "10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level" on each interdictor with "10% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level" and then reducing the base rate of fire of the Interdiction Sphere Launcher by 50%.
Using the proposed signature radiuses this would give interdictors bloomed signatures of between 210 (Saber) and 255 (Eris) at max skills before shield extenders/rigs and implants/boosters are taken into account. This is about the size of a BC and would allow anti support ships to target and track an interdictor reasonably well while making it hard for a battleship to do so before the interdictor burned away. This would also leave Interceptors the kings of MWD speed tanking due to their larger bonus and greater speed while not rendering the Talwar redundant as an MWD fit frig killer due its smaller base signature and also having a larger bonus in that specific role.
It would also give people a reason to train interdictors V as at the moment the 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level and a small weapon buff just doesn't seem worth the training time on a ship that often carries two bubble launchers and no weapons.
It might be necessary to bring the base signature radiuses of the interdictors a bit closer together so that the ships can be more clearly differentiated on their weapon systems and tank types than their raw abiliy to evade fire in a large fight.
I will leave the debate regarding the split weapon system on the Eris to other posters as in practice very few interdictors use weapons in a fleet fight. |

Totured Veracity
Russian Thunder Squad Darkness of Despair
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:08:00 -
[93] - Quote
Jesus, why make it so unneccessary complicated?
Make flycatcher and heretic more fleet/big gang oriented (resist bonuses + missiles). Giving heretic resist bonus and not giving it to flycatcher makes little sense as for me. Make sabre and eris more solo/small gang oriented (more damage dealing and more maneuverability compared to heretic and fc). Make each dictor 8 high slots and 7 gun slots. In terms of basic agility/mwd speed: sabre > eris > heretic > flycatcher (in the end fc might appear to be more agile because of shield tank). In terms of damage dealing: eris > sabre > fc/heretic.
And that terrible split weapon system on eris needs to be removed and changed to full hybrid bonus. |

Iris Bravemount
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
254
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:12:00 -
[94] - Quote
Why this massive range of base signatures? Wouldn't it make more sense to have them all at 75-80, so that the fittings do the rest to balance the speed/sig ratio? "I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2489
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:15:00 -
[95] - Quote
I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes.
Seriously, scrap the split damage nonsense and give Roden ships a theme other than 'kinda crappy and unfocused' CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2261
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
Not pleased with the changes. Sig radius issue needs to be fixed badly. HP buff is not nearly useful enough - still flying coffins. Dictors could use bubble immunity same as interceptors, they more than any ship in the game should be built for operating inside bubbles with full functionality.
Split weapon bonus is horrible, making the Eris even worse than it already is. I'm not a fan of missile dessies, so I'll have to say I'm not entirely impressed here that Heretic is remaninng missile too. I was hoping for a Carthum lazor dictor. Or a Creodron drone Eris. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |

Totured Veracity
Russian Thunder Squad Darkness of Despair
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:27:00 -
[97] - Quote
No need to make dictors bubble immune. That would create a huge imba issue. |

Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
228
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:29:00 -
[98] - Quote
SWEET, get rid of hybrid tracking bonus on a gall dessy for a MISSILE EXPLOSION RADIUS BONUS! Now, I don't have to use all my ship bonuses at once, I can just use one and suck a giant c-ock even more!!
Quote from you fozzie (more or less) "we want to move away from split weapons" Can I get a hybrid bonus on the abaddon while we're at it please, seems just as god damn likely as missile bonuses on hybrid ships. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |

Doed
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:30:00 -
[99] - Quote
Planet sig radius.
t1 resists/EHP
ERIS???? REALLY????
6 launcher Flycatcher having effectively 0.25 more launchers when using kin missiles over Heretic(has an exp velocity or radius bonus thingy but.. .yeah.. no.) 1 lowslot..
0/10, would not fly.
|
|

CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7828

|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:31:00 -
[100] - Quote
Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
|

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2261
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:36:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
Fair enough. Here's a simplified list of things I personally want to see
- Roll the bubble launcher bonus into the module itself, and give interdictors a better bonus there. - Eris should not be FORCED to split weapons. A choice between the two is good. 4/4 does not offer a choice. - Bigger EHP buff to be higher than T1 destroyers for greater survivability inside the bubble. - Less highslots and more med/lowslots IF you don't buff EHP.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |

Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:39:00 -
[102] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote: Well DUH right back at you, the Gallente and Amarr are both armor tank, so no way you fit nano on them, the Caldari has ONE lowslot, and you fit either DC or BCU. Minmatar is shield tanked with 2 lows for gyro and nano.
I really hate this agility / mass trend. Base speed of MInmatar ships is really not worth much now (Stabber lineup not included). All this ships need a propulsion mod right? Mwd? ONLY with the mwd what are the speeds of this ships? Why is the ship forced to use an extra module to regain their racial speed advantage?
And despite not flying this ships, why the hell is split weapon systems returning? Wasn't that over? |

Oi U
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels In Tea We Trust
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:41:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors No-one would survive. Who would clean up all the mess?
|

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2261
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:43:00 -
[104] - Quote
Does anyone else think 6/6 for Eris would work best? Full rack of hybrids? Gank Eris, anyone?
Or is that too stronk? Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
416
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:47:00 -
[105] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Does anyone else think 6/6 for Eris would work best? Full rack of hybrids? Gank Eris, anyone?
Or is that too stronk?
It's not about what ratio of hardpoints. 4/4 would be fine if it just had bigger bonuses - currently it's down a bonus compared to other dictors. It needs full tracking, range and damage bonuses to all its weapons if it wants to be competitive. Good damage potential, bad at fitting damage mods. If it doesn't work, just keep adding drones until it does. The scythe/typhoon fleet issue thing isn't actually split weapons, you're never using both unless you're terrible. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2490
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:48:00 -
[106] - Quote
If you're insisting on the silly split weapon bonuses on the Eris at least bump the hardpoints up to 5 launchers/ 5turrets so we can choose to lean meaningfully towards one or the other. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1693
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:48:00 -
[107] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes.
Seriously, scrap the split damage nonsense and give Roden ships a theme other than 'kinda crappy and unfocused' This is what happens when you mix nuclear warheads and antimatter. Roden Shipyards needs to reevaluate there concepts regarding weapons and either become a full missile production line or become the opposite of Duvolle Labs and focus on long range hybrids. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
96
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:50:00 -
[108] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
I agree. That role should be reserved for the much more fragile interceptors.
I hope you consider doing something about the survivability of interdictors in their main role of dropping bubbles in the middle of hostile fleets. I am all for ships going all explody in a fight but when an entire class is universally referred to as "flying coffins" something is wrong.
Besides more bubbles means more explody and that's good right? |

xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:53:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
What about a halfway measure... create the Small Micro Jump Drive?
Dictors would have a limited ability to jump out of bubbles to reposition, but can't use it alongside every interdiction probe cycle. |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1815
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:Does anyone else think 6/6 for Eris would work best? Full rack of hybrids? Gank Eris, anyone?
Or is that too stronk? It's not about what ratio of hardpoints.
In this case it kind of is, because you're left in the rare case of too many highs to fill. It should probably be 5/5 turrets/launchers and swap a high for a mid/low.
Edit: Horrible weird split weapon bonuses aside. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
|

Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:56:00 -
[111] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes.
Seriously, scrap the split damage nonsense and give Roden ships a theme other than 'kinda crappy and unfocused'
For only 40 USD (did that price go down recently?) you can be the proud owner of a paint sniffer- I mean, Roden Shipyard t-shirt!!
(Really, did that price go down? I thought all the 0.0 Eve was like 90 bucks and up and left you with 0.0 in your wallet, hence the name of the collection.) |

Dazz Riiiiiiight
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
188
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:02:00 -
[112] - Quote
Capt ****** wrote:And yet another ...
Buff everything, nerf Minmatar.
Holy crap - its like the end of days for minmatar.
Missile boats ahoy - with no range.
Autocannon nerformama - TEs down the pan.
Worst Caps by a staggering margin.
Command ship loveliness perforated with shotgun.
Lowest DPS marauder FTL (for the loss).
Dump on minmatars speed and agility advantages - they cant compensate with worst weapon systems. The is no 'flavour' in the racial minmatar its porridge (with lots of salt).
juicy juicy tears
|

Captn Hammer
Capital Industries Research And Development Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:02:00 -
[113] - Quote
Despite training all Destroyer Vs before Odyssey, the split weapons on the Gallente Dictor was what kept me away from committing to the Eris. Please don't propetuate that, using some thin continuity with Roden Shipyards as justification. Give us a few more drones instead of the missle/launchers, or, like a true successor to the Catalyst, more turrets. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
554
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:04:00 -
[114] - Quote
I do think Roden Shipyards should be missile only you already have duvolle labs for blasters
Roden - missiles only Duvolle Labs - blasters Creo Dron - drones
makes more sense to me i think you should look at minnie fleet and maybe make one of their T2 manufacturers do the missile/projectile split
Thukker - ASB falloff Boundless Creation - missile or projectiles options like the fleet versions Core Complexion - e-war ships missiles mix well with TP and web bonuses Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1788
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:06:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
Replace Bubble bonus with MWD sig reduction bonus (very few people train dictor to 5, this would give that incentive)
Change Eris to 6/6 turrent/ launcher
Everything else looks good and its largely a collection of what overpowered thing they wanted on their particularly favorite ship
|

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:11:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
why do you think this?
atm they pretty much insta die on the field the moment you uncloak/warp in; giving them bubble imunity will give them a chance to gtfo before they die in a fire, and even so they will die allot;
all the dps buff is nice, but if you browse the killboards a bit you will find that most of the ppl don't even bother to fit guns on their dictors: 2x launchers, cloak, 1 ***** gun, that's it;
like i have said before, dictor biggest problem atm is dieing too fast: the moment you arrive on field you are primary; your on bubble will scramble you, and hostiles will use that to kill you, they don't even need to have you tackled, you are tackling yourself...
also bubble immunity make much more sense on dictors than inties: they will be able at least to do some drive-bys, and they will still die allot: to bubble they need to be like <10-15 km from hostile fleet, they can get pointed easy by support ships and after you get pointed is game over. atm flying your dictor in, to bubble a hostile fleet is a suicide mission; bubble immunity at least will give them a small chance to gtfo
|

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2694
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:15:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming. ...* Goon parlance. Nice.
So you tell me what a dictor is for. I honestly don't know. I fit all salvagers high and all stabs low when ninja looting in tama b/c it has more CPU than a destroyer... but other than that, they fundamentally kill themselves. An Onyx or Broadsword gets a movement penalty when it's bubble gen is active, but they are built like brick s*** houses. They tank up like few other cruisers so they are survivable while in that bubble. If things go south, you (usually) have time to disengage your bubble gen because you can tank while the cycle finishes. Dictors? Dictors have to commit 100%.
So when I'm in one of the most poorly tanked T2 ships in game, camping a gate in nullsec through which a nullified T3 or any other number of other deadly ships can pop through, my first reaction is: "hmmm... I think I'll offline my MWD and immobilize myself myself as much as possible. That will totally work."
wtfbbqop my a**.
Flying. Coffin.
Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
554
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:15:00 -
[118] - Quote
what's the point of an explosion radius bonus on frigate sized weapons anyway?? rockets already have lower explosion radius than guns sig res
T1/ Faction rockets - 20m T2 Rage - 34m T2 Rage with GMP lv5 - 25.5m
guns - 40m
T1/ Faction Light missiles - 40m T2 Fury - 69m T2 Fury with GMP lv5 - 51.75m Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2490
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:16:00 -
[119] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes.
Seriously, scrap the split damage nonsense and give Roden ships a theme other than 'kinda crappy and unfocused' This is what happens when you mix nuclear warheads and antimatter. Roden Shipyards needs to reevaluate there concepts regarding weapons and either become a full missile production line or become the opposite of Duvolle Labs and focus on long range hybrids. I'm down with Roden becoming a Railgun specialist manufacturer, though how well that would fit the Eris I'm not sure. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

Randolph Sykes
Iris Covenant The Gorgon Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
Totured Veracity wrote:Make flycatcher and heretic more fleet/big gang oriented (resist bonuses + missiles). Giving heretic resist bonus and not giving it to flycatcher makes little sense as for me. Make sabre and eris more solo/small gang oriented (more damage dealing and more maneuverability compared to heretic and fc). Make each dictor 8 high slots and 7 gun slots. In terms of basic agility/mwd speed: sabre > eris > heretic > flycatcher (in the end fc might appear to be more agile because of shield tank). In terms of damage dealing: eris > sabre > fc/heretic.
And that terrible split weapon system on eris needs to be removed and changed to full hybrid bonus. A thousand times this! T2 are meant to fill a niche, to have a specific role, to perform a specific task and be good at it. The proposed changes show a bunch of ships that perform a specific task and are BAD at it. We need a pair of combat dictors that aren't too mobile but pack a punch. And a pair of fleet dictors that aren't supposed to fit guns at all - just two bubble launchers, and be tanky and mobile enough to drop a bubble and have a chance to retreat. |
|

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
416
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:18:00 -
[121] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:what's the point of an explosion radius bonus on frigate sized weapons anyway?? rockets already have lower explosion radius than guns sig res
T1/ Faction rockets - 20m T2 Rage - 34m T2 Rage with GMP lv5 - 25.5m
guns - 40m
T1/ Faction Light missiles - 40m T2 Fury - 69m T2 Fury with GMP lv5 - 51.75m
Learn to missile formula. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
554
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Harvey James wrote:what's the point of an explosion radius bonus on frigate sized weapons anyway?? rockets already have lower explosion radius than guns sig res
T1/ Faction rockets - 20m T2 Rage - 34m T2 Rage with GMP lv5 - 25.5m
guns - 40m
T1/ Faction Light missiles - 40m T2 Fury - 69m T2 Fury with GMP lv5 - 51.75m Learn to missile formula.
do explain Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1350
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:30:00 -
[123] - Quote
There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:33:00 -
[124] - Quote
Quote:Signature radius: 85(-1)
Also Fozzie, do you think is normal that even after this rebalance dictors will have a much larger sig radius that some cruisers? like really, aren't they supposed to be smaller than a cruiser, in between frigs and cruisers if i'm not mistaken? |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
416
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:36:00 -
[125] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two
Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
554
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:38:00 -
[126] - Quote
at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1350
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:39:00 -
[127] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:MeBiatch wrote:There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else.
That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1788
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:48:00 -
[128] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble
Thats a hictor, different ship, nothing stops a dictor from using its MWD in a bubble
|

Valterra Craven
126
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
I'm not really understanding your reasoning on this one...
Interceptors are designed to catch and stop ships Interdictors serve the same purposes for fleets...
So why is that capability over powered on one ship and not the the other?
In fact if you look at it, ceptors have the speed and agility that dictors don't making it far easier for them to get out of bubbles in the first place, making something easier for them doesn't really make since... put another way, t3's have this ability and are far more tanky and adaptable than dictors are... yet its not over powered for them???
Where are you drawing the line? |

Vatek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:49:00 -
[130] - Quote
Why do we need 3 dictors that use missiles? The heretic has incredible potential as a laserboat but it simply doesn't have the CPU to properly fit missiles thanks to the huge CPU requirements. |
|

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
555
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Harvey James wrote:at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble Thats a hictor, different ship, nothing stops a dictor from using its MWD in a bubble
mm.. wasn't sure due to it saying warp scramble on anything related to HIC or interdictor bubbles would be nice if they changed it to disruption instead.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Tragedy
The Creepshow
113
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:52:00 -
[132] - Quote
Please stop with split wep systems. We now have 2 1/2 missile dictors 1 1/2 turret. Wtf ccp. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
555
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:54:00 -
[133] - Quote
Vatek wrote:Why do we need 3 dictors that use missiles? The heretic has incredible potential as a laserboat but it simply doesn't have the CPU to properly fit missiles thanks to the huge CPU requirements.
would be nice if it was laser based instead too many drone and missile ships nowadays Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3598
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:00:00 -
[134] - Quote
No idea why gallente needs a third weapon system, and why split weapons.
T2 ships should have smaller sig than T1.
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:02:00 -
[135] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Quote:Signature radius: 85(-1) Also Fozzie, do you think is normal that even after this rebalance dictors will have a much larger sig radius that some cruisers? like really, aren't they supposed to be smaller than a cruiser, in between frigs and cruisers if i'm not mistaken? 
non empty quoting myself: 
quote=CCP Fozzie]Interdictors ahoy!
HERETIC Signature radius: 75(-8)
FLYCATCHER Signature radius: 80(-10)
ERIS - Signature radius: 85(-1)
Sabre Signature radius: 70(-5)[/quote]
scimitar: sig radius 65m
guardian: sig radius 75m
oneiros: sig radius 70m
|

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:03:00 -
[136] - Quote
gascanu wrote:gascanu wrote:Quote:Signature radius: 85(-1) Also Fozzie, do you think is normal that even after this rebalance dictors will have a much larger sig radius that some cruisers? like really, aren't they supposed to be smaller than a cruiser, in between frigs and cruisers if i'm not mistaken?  non empty quoting myself: HERETICSignature radius: 75(-8) FLYCATCHER Signature radius: 80(-10) ERIS - Signature radius: 85(-1) SabreSignature radius: 70(-5)
scimitar: sig radius 65m
guardian: sig radius 75m
oneiros: sig radius 70m
|

Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
138
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:03:00 -
[137] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:MeBiatch wrote:There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else. That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it It would also make the game bland. Double-bubble dictors did not get popular because two bubbles over each other are simply better than one.
They became popular because they enable tactical options in fleet positioning that a single bubble dictor can't. So reducing this would really just remove tactical depth from the game.
So far I am stunned by the split weapons discussion on ships that rarely fit more than one or two token guns - and the changes are not radical enough for me to see that changing. What I do like though the proposal of a "Can fit 2 interdiction sphere launchers" role limit and then go lighter on their fitting.
The cap/s increase from 1.5 to 2 is huge, and I'd like to see that for myself on sisi; but, a dictor should really not MWD more than 40-60km after dropping its payload before it switches to a short ongrid warp into safety. And the cap was always enough for that.
The vulnerable phase for a dictor in a fleet fight is after dropping the bubble(s) with effectively 0 transversal to the targets. With the sig bloom from MWDs, this is a near guaranteed hit and instalock from HACs, and sometimes even locks from BS. With specifically fit HACs I have little issue, although one could make it a bit harder for them. But really that should be the job of point defense frigates. |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1788
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:07:00 -
[138] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:MeBiatch wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:MeBiatch wrote:There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...
That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else. That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it It would also make the game bland. Double-bubble dictors did not get popular because two bubbles over each other are simply better than one. They became popular because they enable tactical options in fleet positioning that a single bubble dictor can't. So reducing this would really just remove tactical depth from the game. So far I am stunned by the split weapons discussion on ships that rarely fit more than one or two token guns - and the changes are not radical enough for me to see that changing. What I do like though the proposal of a "Can fit 2 interdiction sphere launchers" role limit and then go lighter on their fitting. The cap/s increase from 1.5 to 2 is huge, and I'd like to see that for myself on sisi; but, a dictor should really not MWD more than 40-60km after dropping its payload before it switches to a short ongrid warp into safety. And the cap was always enough for that. The vulnerable phase for a dictor in a fleet fight is after dropping the bubble(s) with effectively 0 transversal to the targets. With the sig bloom from MWDs, this is a near guaranteed hit and instalock from HACs, and sometimes even locks from BS. With specifically fit HACs I have little issue, although one could make it a bit harder for them. But really that should be the job of point defense frigates.
They became popular because it lets you ignore that stupid bubble timer thats part of the skill, thats really it, now you can launch bubbles every 30 seconds or so instead of every minute and its just a work around their cool down timer, in essence double bubbles makes that skill bonus for lowering bubble launch time a non issue.
|

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2695
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:15:00 -
[139] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it Who? I mean who even flies them right now?
Flycatcher Shield: 1100 HP / EM 0% / EX 50% / K 60% / T 75% Armor: 600 HP / EM 50% / EX 10% / K 55% / T 80% Hull: 650 HP / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 Slots: 8H / 5M / 2L Sig Radius: 70 Additional Interdictors skill bonuses: +10% to AB thrust velocity bonus per level -2% activation AB mass penalty per level +5% to web range per level
The new interceptors can now intercept. Wouldn't it be nice if the new interdictors could actually fill the roll they're named for? You guys were so so bold on the changes to the former... why are you soft shoeing around 'dictors? Everything can kill them.
Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE. |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:21:00 -
[140] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: They became popular because it lets you ignore that stupid bubble timer thats part of the skill, thats really it, now you can launch bubbles every 30 seconds or so instead of every minute and its just a work around their cool down timer, in essence double bubbles makes that skill bonus for lowering bubble launch time a non issue.
That assumes the dictor lives for more than 30 seconds in the engagement.
I thought the point was to be able to drop two bubbles back to back, trapping a larger chunk of the enemy fleet. |
|

Bocephus Morgen
The Suicide Kings Insidious Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:23:00 -
[141] - Quote
I agree that these changes seem underwhelming. I think the focus should be on tanking. The Heretic getting an armor resist bonus and the Flycatcher a shield one. Both with plenty of slots in the primary tank for a robust fleet interdictor. The Sabre and Eris should both something akin to the Tornado and Talos. Fast, high dps, lightly tanked small gang machines. Bump the Eris up to a 3rd mid at the expense of a low, choose one weapon system (preferably hybrids) and go from there.
The sigs are fine, dictors are already hard enough to kill when they are moving at the speeds they move. |

Tort Funaila
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:24:00 -
[142] - Quote
Not happy at all. First and foremost please no split weapon Eris. The point of this balancing pass is to have people fly these unuaes shipa rifht? Well nobody is going to fly a blaster / rocket eris. It's garbage. Make it a catalyst on steroids with blaster tracking instead of a missile bonus.
The other major changes didn't go quite far enough. Lower the sig and and improve fitting across the board. It shouldn't be such a struggle to fit guns + launcher, nevermind guns + cloak+ launcher.
Finally, move a mid from the flycatcher to a low. It lags in dps and the extra mid goes unused at times.
P.s. please no split weapons. sigpic? |

Eldar Deran
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:30:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: =============================================================================
ERIS - Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level)
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage) 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 4(-1) turrets, 4 launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 750(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1)
=========================
So the Eris is the only ship with mixed weapons - where you need to use all 7/8 slos to get the same damage while having a splitt weapon. Wasn't it sayed that in Minmatar ships it was a bad design choice and you learned from it?
And your "to get the heretic on the same level then the gallente" it got more base amor and a resist per level (wan't that bad design too?). Way to go. (And don't let me start why gallente get the most STRUCTURE in ships - while Amarr get most armor AND resists) Also 5% more damage is a nerf to the damage of the eris when you kill her 10% tracking.
Another point I want to raise:
A solid tackle (TM) needs 3 med slots: propulsion, Scram/dis and a web. An interdictor (thanks to the bubble) can mostlikly skip the disruptor and go for a scram, adding with a web to help the tackle. Only ship with 2 med in a tackle role: the eris.
So basically you take away the choice from gallente by making them the worse of the pack. 2 slots? check worse armor tank? check mixed weapons were you need to fit BOTH the compete with the comeptiton? check
and all these tradeoffs are for ... 0.1 sec allign time and +5m/s speed (vs the heretic).
OR just to rephrase: why would i pick the Eris out of the interdictors?
It might be just a hunch, but is your rebalancing not a bit to hard on the "pulse of current meta"?
Sincerly
|

Gigan Amilupar
Legion of Darkwind
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:42:00 -
[144] - Quote
Is there a reason why 3 of the 4 new dictors get missile bonuses? I get that the coercer is laser DPS, but I can't help but feel that having 75% of interdicter hulls using missiles is a bit lackluster. I'm also rather surprised that the Eris is getting a missile bonus instead of a drone one, I would think that a gallente ship would get hybrid/drone before hybrid/missile if we're going with split weapon systems. Seems to me you guys really want dictors to occupy the small-gang missile boat role (with the exception of the sabre because your trying to remove minmatar split weapon bonuses, I guess?). |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4282
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:44:00 -
[145] - Quote
What about rolling the interdiction launcher bonus into the base timer of the module and adding a 7.5% to hull resistance in its place? . |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:54:00 -
[146] - Quote
Bocephus Morgen wrote:
The sigs are fine, dictors are already hard enough to kill when they are moving at the speeds they move.
what game are you playing ?
|

Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:57:00 -
[147] - Quote
I'm sorry, despite the good effort, this is NOT the way to go with the rebalance.
Dictors need 3 things to work properly to make them unique and useful for their price.
1. Get rid of Warp Interdiction Spheres and make 'dictors and hictors the only ship able to field Mobile warp warp disruptors. Hictors would keep their highslot point. This frees up their fitting quite a bit, and makes them invaluable ships to have in null and wh space. Hictors are as valued as they are because they not only perform a unique and extremely valuable role (supercap points), they also have the fitting and toughness to be useful in a brawl. Making Dictors the "smaller" versions of these also keeps in line with the skill progression they have, just as you have been doing with Assault frigates and HACs.
2. Drop a high slot (or two) for fitting slots. If Interdictors become the only ships that can field Mobile Warp disruptors, they don't have to fit the warp interdiciton sphere launcher, and can balance their fitting a bit better. The inherent problem with destroyer balancing is that CCP is still actually stuck on the tier system, in respect to slots for ship classes to a degree. Since the destroyer falls between the cruiser and frigate size classes, but it also has an in-born role with its inception, it suffers from slot misappropriation. Interdictors are not t1 destroyers, and thus do not need a full 8 high slots for direct offensive power. Dropping one or two highs and keeping the missile or gun limit on each to 6 would allow ships like the flycatcher to finally, FINALLY be freed from the horror that is having a single lowslot. It is beyond awful that dictors got balanced into a corner like this, and is one of the many reasons that they are underused in direct pvp situations outside of popping bubbles for camps.
3. Up their defenses. While it makes sense that interceptors wouldn't get a big HP or resist buff, I implore CCP to find some room to appropriate decent resists. Something on the order of force recon boats would be acceptable, and the level of EWAR frigs would be perfect. They are EXTREMELY high-value targets that remain easy to catch. The fact remains that regardless of how you try to balance their speed or sig radius, there remains an entire weight class of frigates beneath it, many of which are more than capable of chewing up and spitting out any interdictor in a direct engagement. While ships like the Sabre are fairly powerful, they still lack appropriate defenses for their price tag and role, and the fact that they have less HP than their t1 counterparts is a miserable situation for them to be in.
Let them into the light a bit so they can fight, please. They are all beautiful, wonderful vessels that have clear potential that is being squandered by an outdated and stale game mechanic. If you don't get rid of interdiction spheres, at LEAST drop their fitting needs and increase the staying time of interdiction sphere bubbles significantly. And fix the damnable rate of fire bonus to something like bubble time or something useful. |

Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
171
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
I see the issue with the interdictors, and it is not necessarily ccp's fault.
We fit them in one of two ways.
1) Double bubble with a cloaking device (3 highs already taken, with the cloak sucking cpu up) 2) Single bubble. 3) Pure damage (no one does this)
Were pretty much all looking at this as a double bubble cloak setup and saying "it sucks" (well it kinda does). The single bubble is not very appealing beyond a very small gang due to its reactivation delay.
Interdictors are in a very odd area. No one wants to fit them for damage cause they'll probably die immediately, those who try get shoehorned into fitting a double bubble+cloak.
Attack those idea's and you'll have a much happier interdictor community. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|

Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:14:00 -
[149] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Does anyone else think 6/6 for Eris would work best? Full rack of hybrids? Gank Eris, anyone?
Or is that too stronk?
It's perfect considering that's the direction they started taking with the Ares. Equal viability for both is what they're supposedly investing in, so it would be kind of nice if they could actually follow through with what they said they would instead of half-assing it.
Best slot setup for 6/6 gun/missile setup on the eris would be 7/2/5. Would allow for good dps. Heretic should get 7/3/4, I think.
|

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2695
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:They have to be somewhat frail, as they have a very unique job, stop a fleet from moving. So I guess this is why I'm bummed. Since when is an eve ship so hyper specialized that it's ONLY use is in a gang. Every other combat ship can fit in some way for 1v1 PvP. I don't know how you could fit a dictor for that because against anything 1v1 it dies. The dictor could be a solo pirate ship... a really interesting one too. Maybe they should split it into 2 classes as suggested here:
xttz wrote:The best way to address this (although probably too late now) is in a similar way to how old command ships worked:
1) Give the old interdictors stats geared toward small-scale pvp / gatecamping, much like the proposals in the OP 2) Use the newer destroyer models to make 'fleet interdictors' with bonuses to speed / agility / EHP.
Except #1 isn't going to happen with the stats in the OP because it's still a pod wrapped in tin foil that immobilizes itself on the attack.
Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE. |
|

Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
329
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:18:00 -
[151] - Quote
Split weapon systems, especially turret/missile splits on gallente ships really need to stop. I liked it on the typhoon, it was my favorite ship, but it's a minmatar focus, and I was still quite happy when the extra hardpoints were added to allow specialization. Turret and missile splits on gallente ships just suck, and the eris will be severely underpowered if it keeps such an awful setup. |

Vatek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:19:00 -
[152] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:I'm sorry, despite the good effort, this is NOT the way to go with the rebalance.
Dictors need 3 things to work properly to make them unique and useful for their price.
1. Get rid of Warp Interdiction Spheres and make 'dictors and hictors the only ship able to field Mobile warp disruptors. Hictors would keep their highslot point. This frees up their fitting quite a bit, and makes them invaluable ships to have in null and wh space. Hictors are as valued as they are because they not only perform a unique and extremely valuable role (supercap points), they also have the fitting and toughness to be useful in a brawl. Making Dictors the "smaller" versions of these also keeps in line with the skill progression they have, just as you have been doing with Assault frigates and HACs.
2. Drop a high slot (or two) for fitting slots. If Interdictors become the only ships that can field Mobile Warp disruptors, they don't have to fit the warp interdiciton sphere launcher, and can balance their fitting a bit better. The inherent problem with destroyer balancing is that CCP is still actually stuck on the tier system, in respect to slots for ship classes to a degree. Since the destroyer falls between the cruiser and frigate size classes, but it also has an in-born role with its inception, it suffers from slot misappropriation. Interdictors are not t1 destroyers, and thus do not need a full 8 high slots for direct offensive power. Dropping one or two highs and keeping the missile or gun limit on each to 6 would allow ships like the flycatcher to finally, FINALLY be freed from the horror that is having a single lowslot. It is beyond awful that dictors got balanced into a corner like this, and is one of the many reasons that they are underused in direct pvp situations outside of popping bubbles for camps.
This is really stupid and I have to question whether you've ever actually flown a dictor or used a mobile warp disruptor. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2491
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:20:00 -
[153] - Quote
Dropping a highslot and moving it to a low or mid for each dictor would be awesomely useful. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2265
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:29:00 -
[154] - Quote
Bocephus Morgen wrote:I agree that these changes seem underwhelming. I think the focus should be on tanking. The Heretic getting an armor resist bonus and the Flycatcher a shield one. Both with plenty of slots in the primary tank for a robust fleet interdictor. The Sabre and Eris should both something akin to the Tornado and Talos. Fast, high dps, lightly tanked small gang machines. Bump the Eris up to a 3rd mid at the expense of a low, choose one weapon system (preferably hybrids) and go from there.
The sigs are fine, dictors are already hard enough to kill when they are moving at the speeds they move.
THIS. Amazing idea.
Sabre - Flexible & Fast Eris - Sheer Gank & Agility Flycatcher - High EHP Shield Heretic - High EHP Armor
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2265
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:31:00 -
[155] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:What about rolling the interdiction launcher bonus into the base timer of the module and adding a 7.5% to hull resistance in its place?
Not Empty Quoting. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |

Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:47:00 -
[156] - Quote
Vatek wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:I'm sorry, despite the good effort, this is NOT the way to go with the rebalance.
Dictors need 3 things to work properly to make them unique and useful for their price.
1. Get rid of Warp Interdiction Spheres and make 'dictors and hictors the only ship able to field Mobile warp disruptors. Hictors would keep their highslot point. This frees up their fitting quite a bit, and makes them invaluable ships to have in null and wh space. Hictors are as valued as they are because they not only perform a unique and extremely valuable role (supercap points), they also have the fitting and toughness to be useful in a brawl. Making Dictors the "smaller" versions of these also keeps in line with the skill progression they have, just as you have been doing with Assault frigates and HACs.
2. Drop a high slot (or two) for fitting slots. If Interdictors become the only ships that can field Mobile Warp disruptors, they don't have to fit the warp interdiciton sphere launcher, and can balance their fitting a bit better. The inherent problem with destroyer balancing is that CCP is still actually stuck on the tier system, in respect to slots for ship classes to a degree. Since the destroyer falls between the cruiser and frigate size classes, but it also has an in-born role with its inception, it suffers from slot misappropriation. Interdictors are not t1 destroyers, and thus do not need a full 8 high slots for direct offensive power. Dropping one or two highs and keeping the missile or gun limit on each to 6 would allow ships like the flycatcher to finally, FINALLY be freed from the horror that is having a single lowslot. It is beyond awful that dictors got balanced into a corner like this, and is one of the many reasons that they are underused in direct pvp situations outside of popping bubbles for camps. This is really stupid and I have to question whether you've ever actually flown a dictor or used a mobile warp disruptor. Mobile bubbles are not a replacement for warp disrupt probes or the hictor bubble generator.
Then please explain, o wise goon, why dictors must be so underpowered to use the all-important interdiction sphere launcher? Also, I said nothing about removing the Hictor's ability to use the Warp Disruption FIeld generator. |

Tragedy
The Creepshow
114
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:52:00 -
[157] - Quote
So what the **** ccp? You guys run out of ideas? Time lines looming? Out of budget? These have larger sigs then some cruisers, less base tank then t1 destroyers, and seriously, what the **** split wep systems? Gallente DO NOT NEED 3 wep systems. Give em drones and hybrids. Thats what gallente pilots train for. Every race does not need missiles, especially on gimped garbage split wep systems. First the ares, now this.
I've been a huge fan of the changes so far. Especially the t1 frig and cruiser changes. Its getting ridiculous now though. Either do it right or don't do it at all. |

Vatek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:55:00 -
[158] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Vatek wrote:This is really stupid and I have to question whether you've ever actually flown a dictor or used a mobile warp disruptor. Mobile bubbles are not a replacement for warp disrupt probes or the hictor bubble generator. Then please explain, o wise goon, why dictors must be so underpowered to use the all-important interdiction sphere launcher? Also, I said nothing about removing the Hictor's ability to use the Warp Disruption FIeld generator.
Ask CCP. I think the sabre's in a good place firepower-wise but the entire class needs some kind of survivability buff. |

Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:59:00 -
[159] - Quote
Vatek wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Vatek wrote:This is really stupid and I have to question whether you've ever actually flown a dictor or used a mobile warp disruptor. Mobile bubbles are not a replacement for warp disrupt probes or the hictor bubble generator. Then please explain, o wise goon, why dictors must be so underpowered to use the all-important interdiction sphere launcher? Also, I said nothing about removing the Hictor's ability to use the Warp Disruption FIeld generator. Ask CCP. I think the sabre's in a good place firepower-wise but the entire class needs some kind of survivability buff.
I can definitely agree with you on that last point, and towards the end I said if they don't remove dictor bubbles from the game, they should at least drop the fitting reqs a bit so the ships don't get penalized for CPU so much for using them. Would you think it'd be good if they rolled at least part of the firing rate bonus into the ship, left a utility high on all of them, and buffed HP, resists, and gave extra slots? I'm just frustrated at how pathetic they are in actual combat. I mean, if you have one with you camping the gate, it should at least be able to contribute to the fight if you catch something with your gang, you know? |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
26
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:01:00 -
[160] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Vatek wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:I'm sorry, despite the good effort, this is NOT the way to go with the rebalance.
Dictors need 3 things to work properly to make them unique and useful for their price.
1. Get rid of Warp Interdiction Spheres and make 'dictors and hictors the only ship able to field Mobile warp disruptors. . This is really stupid and I have to question whether you've ever actually flown a dictor or used a mobile warp disruptor. Mobile bubbles are not a replacement for warp disrupt probes or the hictor bubble generator. Then please explain, o wise goon, why dictors must be so underpowered to use the all-important interdiction sphere launcher? Also, I said nothing about removing the Hictor's ability to use the Warp Disruption FIeld generator.
o wise dude, can you explain how the hell will you be able to bubble a fleet with a mobile warp distrupor??? do you even know that they need some time before they get online? or that they can be locked and killed by any ship out there? like really, stop postig if you have no ideea what are you takinb about... |
|

Vatek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
80
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:01:00 -
[161] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Vatek wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Vatek wrote:This is really stupid and I have to question whether you've ever actually flown a dictor or used a mobile warp disruptor. Mobile bubbles are not a replacement for warp disrupt probes or the hictor bubble generator. Then please explain, o wise goon, why dictors must be so underpowered to use the all-important interdiction sphere launcher? Also, I said nothing about removing the Hictor's ability to use the Warp Disruption FIeld generator. Ask CCP. I think the sabre's in a good place firepower-wise but the entire class needs some kind of survivability buff. I can definitely agree with you on that last point, and towards the end I said if they don't remove dictor bubbles from the game, they should at least drop the fitting reqs a bit so the ships don't get penalized for CPU so much for using them. Would you think it'd be good if they rolled at least part of the firing rate bonus into the ship, left a utility high on all of them, and buffed HP, resists, and gave extra slots? I'm just frustrated at how pathetic they are in actual combat. I mean, if you have one camping the gate, it should at least be able to contribute to the fight if you catch something with your gang you know?
I'd like to see the bubble firing rate bonus removed from the hull, given to the launcher itself as a baseline ROF (who cares about making it a hull bonus when nothing else can fit them) and have that bonus replaced with a useful survivability bonus like resists or a sig reduction of some kind. Even if they just copied the covops cloak revamp (set it to 100cpu and give the hull a bonus to fitting) it would at least give us a bunch of extra CPU to play with when all of these ships are extremely fitting limited.
I've never understood why these ships are so fragile. Hictors have ridiculous passive tanks so they can stand up to fleet firepower but dictors can't survive against a single T1 frigate or a battle industrial (especially the newly buffed ones) without logistics or ewar backup.
The mids and lows are another issue, especially on the Eris and the Flycatcher. The slot layouts on these two ships are frankly silly. The Eris should go from 2/4 to 4/2 and the flycatcher should be switched from 5/1 to 3/3. This at least gives these two hulls the option of fitting the standard sabre setup of scram/web/mwd, thus making them viable replacements for a small gang dictor. |

Drake Doe
Flatulaction
286
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:23:00 -
[162] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Bocephus Morgen wrote:
The sigs are fine, dictors are already hard enough to kill when they are moving at the speeds they move.
what game are you playing ? Shoot the dictor with a sieged dread online of course. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |

Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
138
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:24:00 -
[163] - Quote
Vatek wrote:This is really stupid and I have to question whether you've ever actually flown a dictor or used a mobile warp disruptor. Mobile bubbles are not a replacement for warp disrupt probes or the hictor bubble generator. I assumed it was a troll.
Anchored bubbles are primarily for static combat, DIC and HIC are primarily for dynamic combat. Different roles. |

Maennas Vaer
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:24:00 -
[164] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Why are we seeing an Eris with split weapon bonuses? I thought the new Roden would be able to fit either/or, not be compelled to fit both. With only 4 turrets and 4 launchers, one is forced to use split weapons. At least with 5 turrets you could fit a cloak and 2 sphere launchers and have a single weapon system. Now with that set up, we'll be forced to fit an oddball launcher or turret.
Please fix the hardpoint mounts to not force Eris pilots to use split weapons. You guys phased it out of Minmatar T1, made a GREAT way to choose which weapon system you wanted for other split weapon ships (namely Minmatar Fleet Issues), and fixed the Ares' Roden bonuses for either/or. Now, you have a throwback, old-style split weapons system on the Eris.
It really should be a ship (and indeed the whole Roden line) that lets you choose which weapons system you want to use instead of only 4 of each weapon hardpoint. It's not even about damage output. Balance that around having all of one weapon on the ship. It's about optimal range/max flight time, instant weapon damage, etc. This is a step backward, Fozzie.
This. |

Baali Tekitsu
God Bless My Enemies
54
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:45:00 -
[165] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Interdictors ahoy! Were making the Sabre the new Rifter, get 0wned Minmatar lololol
Yay |

XvXTeacherVxV
S.E.N.T.I.N.E.L.
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 22:07:00 -
[166] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: 4% bonus to armor resistances per level (was 5% bonus to missile velocity per level)
Every interdictor hull should have a survivability bonus like this so they're not so squishy. If the Eris can't be the scary catalyst it should be, maybe it could be a tanky one instead.
Heretic - Armor Resistance Flycatcher - Shield Resistance
(and since active tanking is less sensible for these ships). Sabre - MWD Sig radius reduction Eris - Total Armor HP EVE Forums need a button right next to "like" that says "you need to calm your silly self down." |

Tuxedo Catfish
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
58
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 22:22:00 -
[167] - Quote
xttz wrote:The best way to address this (although probably too late now) is in a similar way to how old command ships worked:
1) Give the old interdictors stats geared toward small-scale pvp / gatecamping, much like the proposals in the OP 2) Use the newer destroyer models to make 'fleet interdictors' with bonuses to speed / agility / EHP.
This is an excellent idea.
Also, jesus christ, don't put mandatory split weapons on the Eris. It sucks enough already.
I'm still not seeing any reason to fly any dictor other than the Sabre in any situation small gang or large fleet, given that it's the only one with a sane slot layout, but at least the margin isn't quite as huge. But whatever, harder to get outraged about this compared to some of the other ship classes in recent memory, and at least the interceptor pass was good. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
378
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 22:27:00 -
[168] - Quote
Why does the minmatar ship have the least agility of the lot? In what way does that make sense?
|

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
129
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 23:16:00 -
[169] - Quote
Tuxedo Catfish wrote:xttz wrote:The best way to address this (although probably too late now) is in a similar way to how old command ships worked:
1) Give the old interdictors stats geared toward small-scale pvp / gatecamping, much like the proposals in the OP 2) Use the newer destroyer models to make 'fleet interdictors' with bonuses to speed / agility / EHP. This is an excellent idea. Also, jesus christ, don't put mandatory split weapons on the Eris. It sucks enough already. I'm still not seeing any reason to fly any dictor other than the Sabre in any situation small gang or large fleet, given that it's the only one with a sane slot layout, but at least the margin isn't quite as huge. But whatever, harder to get outraged about this compared to some of the other ship classes in recent memory, and at least the interceptor pass was good. This seems pretty inevitable, probably not for Rubicon though, there's already 2 ships coming out on this one. |

Galphii
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
184
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 23:21:00 -
[170] - Quote
So the heretic becomes an armour tank with a 8/3/3 slot layout, while the gallente eris has the proper armour layout of 8/2/4 ? Given the nature of gallente being able to do both armour and shield, and ammar preferring armour (especially with a 4% bonus per level) these should be swapped around. Failing this, consider an extra mid or low slot for each ship - the current slot arrangements (except for the sabre) are sort of gimped anyway. X |
|

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
418
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 23:25:00 -
[171] - Quote
Galphii wrote:Given the nature of gallente being able to do both armour and shield
sorry what |

Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Anomalous Existence
133
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 23:31:00 -
[172] - Quote
@Kat: DEFINITELY more survivability for 'dictors. As it stands right now, one funny look from well, almost anything and blap! byebye dictor (its to the point where I wouldn't trust a dual-MSE Sabre to survive bubbling something inside a C1 anom). About -20 sig is needed here to put them in line with their T1 counterparts in this category, and I think that alone will get them to the point where they can hold out on the field long enough to be useful, but still not be totally OMGWTFBBQ OP as it'd put more emphasis on actively flying around. Worth some Sisi testing though...
@Trouser on removing double bubble dictors: Don't. Go. There. Double-bubble is still a practical necessity when trying to fast-interdict both sides of a WH (as they don't enforce weapon timers). |

Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans
119
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:00:00 -
[173] - Quote
Can someone tell me which is the objectively best one? Flycatcher looks un inspiring for a first glance. it's slow and has low dps. Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |

Vatek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:16:00 -
[174] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Can someone tell me which is the objectively best one? Flycatcher looks un inspiring for a first glance. it's slow and has low dps.
Sabre. Nothing changes. |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4285
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:29:00 -
[175] - Quote
I believe the actual interdictor sphere launcher needs a revamp. Sure years ago it worked for the scale of the game, but thankfully the game has grown since then, specifically fleet battles.
I propose you limit the sphere launcher to only one fit at a time. Change the rate of fire to 3-5 seconds. Remove the bonus to the sphere launcher rate of fire and make it +1 to amount of bubbles in the launcher clip with a base amount of 0. At level 1 interdictor you can carry one bubble in the launcher and at max skill, level 5, you can have 5 loaded. Now have the reload time decently long.
With this you have a launcher that fullfills the needs of today's fleets and allows fitting room for a more logical tank so the pilot can be more than a 15 second hero. Also when the launcher is reloading, the pilot can bail off the battlefield or stay and perform some other duties like anti-tackle role without being gimped due to 2-3 launchers and a cloak. . |

Mr Doctor
Los Polos Hermanos. Happy Cartel
75
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:41:00 -
[176] - Quote
Vatek wrote:I've never understood why these ships are so fragile. Hictors have ridiculous passive tanks so they can stand up to fleet firepower but dictors can't survive against a single T1 frigate or a battle industrial (especially the newly buffed ones) without logistics or ewar backup. Because unlike a HiC they dont need to stay on field for their bubbles to function. They have a completely different style. |

HazeInADaze
L'Avant Garde Strictly Unprofessional
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:44:00 -
[177] - Quote
why no drone boat Eris? And why are we still on the missile/blaster combo? Who seriously does that?
I suggest Tristan bonuses with the t2 bonuses being drone damage / speed and the bubble. That is a gallente ship we can get excited about. |

XvXTeacherVxV
S.E.N.T.I.N.E.L.
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:51:00 -
[178] - Quote
Mr Doctor wrote:Vatek wrote:I've never understood why these ships are so fragile. Hictors have ridiculous passive tanks so they can stand up to fleet firepower but dictors can't survive against a single T1 frigate or a battle industrial (especially the newly buffed ones) without logistics or ewar backup. Because unlike a HiC they dont need to stay on field for their bubbles to function. They have a completely different style.
And that style is "disposable". EVE Forums need a button right next to "like" that says "you need to calm your silly self down." |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1789
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 01:24:00 -
[179] - Quote
So while arguing with Prom about these ships Marlona brought up ditching the bubble timer too and I sort of agree a lot.
Players long ago figured a work around for that stupid timer on the sphere launcher (fit more launchers) and the fittings for the ships easily allow for this.
So that bonus is kinda dumb and doesn't really invite you to train interdictors 5.
What's being discussed currently is an ASB/AAR length reload timer for the launcher (so say 60 seconds) with a magazine in the launcher that can hold 3-5 bubbles (my number was 4, this is how many you'd get off from a 3x bubble heretic inside 1 minute with dictor 5, Marlona's was 5 but you get the idea) and ditch that stupid reduction in sphere launcher time that literally means nothing atm.
You then treat the launcher like a cov ops cloak and give it A) a limit of 1 per ship and B) the interdictors themselves get a role bonus to fitting them making them the only ship that can viably fit one.
This change might be complex but it stops the ****** throwaway multiple bubble fits we have now and allows you to use your dictors fitting to actually fit THINGS , like guns and other mods and crap.
It also allows you to give it a worthwhile bonus that prompts people to train dictors 5 (currently thats not really a thing people go out of their way to do, even if they fly dictors constantly) that people are asking for in the survivability department (hint: Sig reduction under speed) |

Vatek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 01:31:00 -
[180] - Quote
Mr Doctor wrote:Vatek wrote:I've never understood why these ships are so fragile. Hictors have ridiculous passive tanks so they can stand up to fleet firepower but dictors can't survive against a single T1 frigate or a battle industrial (especially the newly buffed ones) without logistics or ewar backup. Because unlike a HiC they dont need to stay on field for their bubbles to function. They have a completely different style.
Not in a small gang they don't. |
|

Demonic Sentiment
Space Exploitation Inc Get Off My Lawn
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 01:57:00 -
[181] - Quote
No to the eris split weapons... stupid change |

Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
54
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:01:00 -
[182] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: ERIS - Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level)
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage) 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 4(-1) turrets, 4 launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 750(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1)
a¦á_a¦á
Quote:Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 4(-1) turrets, 4 launchers
a¦á_a¦á
Quote:4 turrets, 4 launchers
a¦á_a¦á This is the first time you've made me really question you Fozzie. It was said you would rebalance these ships, not leave them in darkness. |

Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
139
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:04:00 -
[183] - Quote
Tuxedo Catfish wrote:xttz wrote:The best way to address this (although probably too late now) is in a similar way to how old command ships worked:
1) Give the old interdictors stats geared toward small-scale pvp / gatecamping, much like the proposals in the OP 2) Use the newer destroyer models to make 'fleet interdictors' with bonuses to speed / agility / EHP. This is an excellent idea. I'd say there is writing on the wall for a second interdictor that throws anti-microjump bubbles based on the new hull. At least there was talk about anchorable anti-microjump bubbles when the MJD was introduced, so mobile Dic/Hic versions of that would be logical. |

Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:06:00 -
[184] - Quote
gascanu wrote:
o wise dude, can you explain how the hell will you be able to bubble a fleet with a mobile warp distrupor??? do you even know that they need some time before they get online? or that they can be locked and killed by any ship out there? like really, stop postig if you have no ideea what are you takinb about...
It was a suggestion because this is a features and IDEAS thread. And if you'd cared to read further down, I stated that I'd be fine with them buffing the interdiction spheres' time on field as long as the ships themselves get buffed. The implication I was ATTEMPTING to make was that the two should merge in some way, if they did elliminate interdiction sphere launchers. Yes, they take time to set up, and yes, they can be shot down, but the problems with interdiction sphere launchers is the SHIPS that field them. That is what this thread is about and that is what I'm concerned with when I'm looking at them. So mobile warp disruptors can be shot down and take time to online? So do 'dictors; that's why everyone on this thread is pissed. These changes don't do enough.
|

Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:08:00 -
[185] - Quote
Vatek wrote:
I'd like to see the bubble firing rate bonus removed from the hull, given to the launcher itself as a baseline ROF (who cares about making it a hull bonus when nothing else can fit them) and have that bonus replaced with a useful survivability bonus like resists or a sig reduction of some kind. Even if they just copied the covops cloak revamp (set it to 100cpu and give the hull a bonus to fitting) it would at least give us a bunch of extra CPU to play with when all of these ships are extremely fitting limited.
I've never understood why these ships are so fragile. Hictors have ridiculous passive tanks so they can stand up to fleet firepower but dictors can't survive against a single T1 frigate or a battle industrial (especially the newly buffed ones) without logistics or ewar backup.
The mids and lows are another issue, especially on the Eris and the Flycatcher. The slot layouts on these two ships are frankly silly. The Eris should go from 2/4 to 4/2 and the flycatcher should be switched from 5/1 to 3/3. I'm aware that this homogenizes the fits quite a bit but the result is that both of these hulls end up being more competitive with the sabre for small gang work.
What do you think about dropping a high for a fitting slot, assuming they all get 7 highs with 6 weapons? If they fix the launching system for them, do you think it would be appropriate to do that if it gives them more survivability to launch more bubbles and, you know, actually shoot back? |

SmarncaV2
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
38
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:16:00 -
[186] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:I believe the actual interdictor sphere launcher needs a revamp. Sure years ago it worked for the scale of the game, but thankfully the game has grown since then, specifically fleet battles.
I propose you limit the sphere launcher to only one fit at a time. Change the rate of fire to 3-5 seconds. Remove the bonus to the sphere launcher rate of fire and make it +1 to amount of bubbles in the launcher clip with a base amount of 0. At level 1 interdictor you can carry one bubble in the launcher and at max skill, level 5, you can have 5 loaded. Now have the reload time decently long.
With this you have a launcher that fullfills the needs of today's fleets and allows fitting room for a more logical tank so the pilot can be more than a 15 second hero. Also when the launcher is reloading, the pilot can bail off the battlefield or stay and perform some other duties like anti-tackle role without being gimped due to 2-3 launchers and a cloak.
I support this very good idea!
+ Maybe in the winter expansion 2024 add fleet interdictor and "combat" interdictor |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1791
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:17:00 -
[187] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:
What do you think about dropping a high for a fitting slot, assuming they all get 7 highs with 6 weapons? If they fix the launching system for them, do you think it would be appropriate to do that if it gives them more survivability to launch more bubbles and, you know, actually shoot back?
one fitting slot won't give you enough survivability to 'drop bubbles and shoot back', people will still not want fleet dictors to bother trying to shoot things, rather they'll still be tasked with dumping bubbles and just trying to live |

Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2723
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:24:00 -
[188] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Why do all races have missile ships now?
I don't get it.. We don't see lasers or Ac's being flavour for other races :S
LEAVE THE KHANID ALONE D: The Drake is a Lie |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
130
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 04:25:00 -
[189] - Quote
The Flycatcher changes are very acceptable. My ship and I are pleased. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1350
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 04:46:00 -
[190] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:I believe the actual interdictor sphere launcher needs a revamp. Sure years ago it worked for the scale of the game, but thankfully the game has grown since then, specifically fleet battles.
I propose you limit the sphere launcher to only one fit at a time. Change the rate of fire to 3-5 seconds. Remove the bonus to the sphere launcher rate of fire and make it +1 to amount of bubbles in the launcher clip with a base amount of 0. At level 1 interdictor you can carry one bubble in the launcher and at max skill, level 5, you can have 5 loaded. Now have the reload time decently long.
With this you have a launcher that fullfills the needs of today's fleets and allows fitting room for a more logical tank so the pilot can be more than a 15 second hero. Also when the launcher is reloading, the pilot can bail off the battlefield or stay and perform some other duties like anti-tackle role without being gimped due to 2-3 launchers and a cloak.
a much more thought out version of my previous post plus one like There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
|

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1313
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:05:00 -
[191] - Quote
The best buff dictors could get is a proper visible cooldown timer on the bubble launcher. |

Zilero
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
108
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:33:00 -
[192] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:The best buff dictors could get is a proper visible cooldown timer on the bubble launcher.
Not empty quoting. |

Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Yulai Federation
140
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:54:00 -
[193] - Quote
usually the matari stuff is the most agile in eve. whatever you touch, you seem to be changing this. So, from now on the matari interdictor is the least agile one, looking at the align time stats. Eve's basic principles have changed since Fozzie. |

Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
372
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:03:00 -
[194] - Quote
Buff to split weapons on Eris - thumbs up!
Great fun for those of us who actually spent the time to skill up both guns and missiles.
Not sure why you kept the single small drone, though. |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
692
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:15:00 -
[195] - Quote
Magic Crisp wrote:usually the matari stuff is the most agile in eve. whatever you touch, you seem to be changing this. So, from now on the matari interdictor is the least agile one, looking at the align time stats. Eve's basic principles have changed since Fozzie.
Let me tell you why this is wrong.
Would you put a nano on a 1 lowslot low dps hull? No, damage mod Would you put a nano on a 3 or 4 lowslot armor tank hull? No, damage and tank mods Would you put a nano on a 2 lowslot shieldtanker that has the greatest top speed? Yes, and a damage mod as well
Slot layout and tanking type plays a huge part in the balancing. If the Sabre had the best agility as well as top speed it would just stomp the other dictors like it always has. It's still the most agile and fastest dictor with a nano fit to it. |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
692
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 07:20:00 -
[196] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Buff to split weapons on Eris - thumbs up!
Great fun for those of us who actually spent the time to skill up both guns and missiles.
Not sure why you kept the single small drone, though.
Hush you, split types are bad, mkay? At least give the option to use either, don't force a split, that's bad design, and that's a quote from CCP, not just me, so why they even did this is a mystery. I've only ever given Fozzie praise for his rebalancing, but this I can't get behind. |

Harreeb Alls
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:27:00 -
[197] - Quote
These look awesome. I support these changes! These combined with the interceptors and EAF's is going to change null sec, and low for the better.
A whole new vibrant era of small gang pvp is about to emerge. Gangs of smaller class ships using hit and run tactics will be much more viable. The people who have been bearing in nullsec reaping massive rewards with so little risk are about to drown in their own tears. If you want to use your space, you'd better be active in it.
The wolf packs are coming for you bloated cows. |

Venum Einherjar's
Babylon Knights Renegades Council
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:36:00 -
[198] - Quote
Is it possible to put 7 launchers to the flycatchers ?
Heretic has 7 launchers, Sabre 7 turrets, and flycatcher specialised in missiles ( caldari ) only 6 ... |

Bezdar22
0utLaw. Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:39:00 -
[199] - Quote
wtf.. its not rebalance at all.. look athose bonus they all became missle boat.. sabre is stilll the good one..and others are still ****..why not u make them t2 destroyer same as t1 with bubbles on it...
sabre is the only one has projectile and and tracking bonus .. eris is mixed with hybrid and missle .. no one gonna fly that hertic missle bonus not accepttable need laser bonus as coarcer with tracking dont care abt flycather much |

Serenum
Red Cross Marauders
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:50:00 -
[200] - Quote
i'll chime in, no split weapons on the eris, the rest is okay
but doing something against the suicide mission that is actually using your bubbles would be cool
warpin in > bubble > pray
if you do get popped you are likely to get podded as well, discourages older pilots as usual |
|

Harreeb Alls
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:57:00 -
[201] - Quote
Heretic 7(+1) launchers, makes really viable as a pvp boat beyond bubbles. Is that a typo or is it 6(+1) ?????????? |

Kossaw
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
75
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:01:00 -
[202] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
Well, yes and no. Somebody earlier suggested that they be immune to their own bubbles - which I guess technically might be pretty hard to do, but would make sense. Essentially a dictor should be allowed to warp out of its own bubble hence making it much easier to survive a large fleet battle but still be caught in another bubble. Maybe if they were immune to only interdiction bubbles but not mobile warp disruptors ? An interceptor is much better equipped to defend itself than a dictor, so I dont really see bubble immune dictors as being more omfgwtfpwn than the new interceptors. Also, immersion wise, it seems odd that you could manufacture a bubble immune interceptor and not apply the same technology to an interdictor.
Otherwise, the split weapon system on the Eris spoils what is otherwise a very welcome rebalance to that ship. Essentially the Eris needs the ability to fit 5 turrets or 5 missiles leaving the remaining slots for 2 bubbles and a cloak. I strongly disagree that a double bubble fit is overpowered, because you have to gimp the lows with co-processors to get it to fit.
Overall I'm looking forward to flying an Eris again. Thanks Fozzie - the changes look pretty good.
WTB : An image in my signature |

Rodent Jr
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:11:00 -
[203] - Quote
Kossaw wrote:
Well, yes and no. Somebody earlier suggested that they be immune to their own bubbles - which I guess technically might be pretty hard to do, but would make sense. Essentially a dictor should be allowed to warp out of its own bubble hence making it much easier to survive a large fleet battle but still be caught in another bubble.
This seems like the simplest way to achieve that aim...
xttz wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming. What about a halfway measure... create the Small Micro Jump Drive? Dictors would have a limited ability to jump out of bubbles to reposition, but can't use it alongside every interdiction probe cycle.
|

Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:13:00 -
[204] - Quote
That looks boring. Same as SB and CovOps "rebalance". They were different, now they are almost the same. Missiles are for Caldari.
- HERETIC - no dronez or lazors, why ? is that Caldari armor based ? That's really unfair. 8.75 effective launchers on hull with 3 tank and 3 utility slots ? And 3 tank modules can be replaced with 3 damage mods. Sig 75, nice, armor tank will not bloom it.
- FLYCATCHER - overall nice bonuses to missiles, but looking at only 1 low slot something is still broken. 1 low is not enough pushing you to hard decision - tank, navig or dps module. No tank bonus so at least ship should have more low slots to allow DCII AND something else (nano or BC). No drones - good , it's not amarr/gallente. It's caldari. Sig 80 !!!!!! - this is bad, veeery bad. Add to that shield tank blook and boom, this ship is no longer an option. That ship needs turret sockets and hybrid bonuses.
- ERIS - what missiles are doing on that ship ? Actually bonuses better fit Caldari - hybrids/missiles. Here should be hybrid/drones. a single drone ? that's joke, isn't it ? what is that for - a mining drone ? I can only imagine how excited are Gallente pilots to skill that ship. That additional month to use weaponry is really temptating. ;)
- SABRE - weaponry, tank ok - it's matar, sig+speed ok for shield tanked ship. Not enough med slots for shield tanked ship.
In generic - shild tanked should have sig 70-75max, 5 med slots, armor tanked sig 80-85 2-3 med, 4-5 low. Amarr - drones, lazors Gall - hybrids, drones Matar - projectile, drones Caldari - hybrids, missiles, no drones.
It's quite funny combination 5*10% missile velocity (range) bonus combined with 50km targeting and very low number of med slots.
These ships doesn't look like well designed at all. Do you guys play EvE or only plan EvE ? |

Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:25:00 -
[205] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote: Let me tell you why this is wrong. (...) It's still the most agile and fastest dictor with a nano fit to it.
No it's not, if you nano the others, it will not be, and if you have a 1 low slot, you still have the choice to do it or not. Paint it as you wish, you're forcing a nano in the Sabre so he can be what he should be by default. WITHOUT a nano, MWD ONLY, is the Sabre still the fastest hictor? If is not, then mass/agility/speed were not tuned up right. So now Minmatar have to nano (a module available to all others) to be able to have his racial speed/agility back, kk. |

Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
98
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:29:00 -
[206] - Quote
Somethings look good some things look a little... confused.
If you're giving the 4% armour resist to the heretic I get the feeling that its role is that of a fleet vessel. Therefore given the racial dispositions I'd recommend some changes such as...
Heretic - 4% to armour 7 highs 5 launcher slots 3 mids 4 lows Since fleet usage doesn't require a full set of weapons and the extra low can provide added survivability.
Flycatcher - 4% to shield 7 highs 5 launcher slots 5 mids 2 lows Same idea as above. Less damage for that extra low that the hull could really use.
Sabre - more or less the same 8 highs 7 turret slots 4 mids 2 lows They are more skimishy and get the extra weapon slots
Eris - 8 highs 6 turrets 6 launchers 3 mids 3 lows Also skirmishy and a bit more versatile than the others.
I would also argue that the sabre and eris get a tad lower sig radius than their caldari and amarr counterparts.
|

LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
49
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:38:00 -
[207] - Quote
Rodent Jr wrote:Kossaw wrote:
Well, yes and no. Somebody earlier suggested that they be immune to their own bubbles - which I guess technically might be pretty hard to do, but would make sense. Essentially a dictor should be allowed to warp out of its own bubble hence making it much easier to survive a large fleet battle but still be caught in another bubble.
What dictor needs is a MJD module and role bonus to spool up timer.
Anyway I think these dictors changes overall are big letdown. This ship class needs some major chances, not minor tweaks and nerfs. |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
581
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:55:00 -
[208] - Quote
[quote=CCP Fozzie]Interdictors ahoy! The single biggest buff these guys are getting is from the already announced warp speed changes, where their 8au/s will allow them to get on their targets extremely quickly. Otherwise we've focused on getting the three under-performers up closer to the Sabre's power level while maintaining their own distinctive styles. The class has lost a fair bit of sig across the board, and the Heretic, Flycatcher and Eris all see very significant mass decreases which lead to them gaining a lot of speed while under mwd.
[quote]
You are doing that again. Minmatar ships aligning and warping slower than all other races. THat is WRONG. Youa re not keepign racial identity. you are murdering it!!!
Minmatar are the hit an run race. You shoudl NOT have given more HP to sabeer.. you shoudl have kept the saber as the most trully mobile but at the cost of HP.
When did CCP finnaly lost all grap about the original races identities? "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:59:00 -
[209] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:
What do you think about dropping a high for a fitting slot, assuming they all get 7 highs with 6 weapons? If they fix the launching system for them, do you think it would be appropriate to do that if it gives them more survivability to launch more bubbles and, you know, actually shoot back?
one fitting slot won't give you enough survivability to 'drop bubbles and shoot back', people will still not want fleet dictors to bother trying to shoot things, rather they'll still be tasked with dumping bubbles and just trying to live
Then why give them any weapons at all? The problem with 'dictors that has sidelined them so long is BECAUSE they're pidgeon-holed like this; if you give them some power and flexibility, it lets them perform better within their role. It's just maddening because of how deep the broken goes for them; JUST using interdiction spheres for fleet work lends mostly to mobility and a consideration for range dictation, but how useful are they compared to other classes in their family? Hictors are monstrously powerful combat ships in their own right, and interceptors are going to be turned into a solo pirate's wet dream. What balance changes can possibly be made to stack 'dictors in the same category as that?
|

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
581
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 10:03:00 -
[210] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote: Let me tell you why this is wrong. (...) It's still the most agile and fastest dictor with a nano fit to it.
No it's not, if you nano the others, it will not be, and if you have a 1 low slot, you still have the choice to do it or not. Paint it as you wish, you're forcing a nano in the Sabre so he can be what he should be by default. WITHOUT a nano, MWD ONLY, is the Sabre still the fastest hictor? If is not, then mass/agility/speed were not tuned up right. So now Minmatar have to nano (a module available to all others) to be able to have his racial speed/agility back, kk.
That is what I also dislike. CCP keep forgeting racial identities.!!!
Amarr are supposed to have most armor hitpoints and be the strongest FACING direclty ene,my. Gallente are balanced mobility and defese but huge firepower. Minamtar are supposed to be SQUISHY as a paper bag but FASTER AND MORE AGILE THAN ANY of the other races!!!
That was the race conception, that is on what people choosen their races and focus. it is WRONG.. COMPLETELY WRONG to change them!!!
THis absurdity is at the point that we had to beg CCP to not make the tempest SLOWER than the apocalypse!!!!!! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
|

Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 10:04:00 -
[211] - Quote
Elindreal wrote:Somethings look good some things look a little... confused.
If you're giving the 4% armour resist to the heretic I get the feeling that its role is that of a fleet vessel. Therefore given the racial dispositions I'd recommend some changes such as...
Heretic - 4% to armour 7 highs 5 launcher slots 3 mids 4 lows Since fleet usage doesn't require a full set of weapons and the extra low can provide added survivability.
Flycatcher - 4% to shield 7 highs 5 launcher slots 5 mids 2 lows Same idea as above. Less damage for that extra low that the hull could really use.
Sabre - more or less the same 8 highs 7 turret slots 4 mids 2 lows They are more skimishy and get the extra weapon slots
Eris - 8 highs 6 turrets 6 launchers 3 mids 3 lows Also skirmishy and a bit more versatile than the others.
I would also argue that the sabre and eris get a tad lower sig radius than their caldari and amarr counterparts.
Tldr; Caldari and Amarr get 4% resist a level. Sacrifice a high for extra low. Lose a few launcher hardpoints. Minmatar and Gallente have the full 8 highs and a full rack of weapons. Lower sig radius. Eris gets 3/3 mid/lows
+1 I would submit burnt offerings to fozzie to make this so. |

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny The Kadeshi
146
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 10:25:00 -
[212] - Quote
i'm not sold on these changes....
a few general remarks: bolstering up things already stated in this thread
i don't see why the rate of bubble launching of interdiction sphere launchers has to be a hull bonus. if you want to promote, that more skilling is necessary to launch bubbles faster, make the rate of bubbleling part of the interdictor / graviton physics skill itself and introduce a survivability bonus as the 4th hull bonus.
bringing me to the second point: survivability of interdictors. they have none. that is the whole issue with this ship class. dictors are primary even before recons and those are thought of as OP. i can live with them not having an super awesome tank but there should be a way to survive if you know what you are doing. currently your only way of surviving a decent fight is when your opponent does not know what he is doing. A nice thing would be a 4th hull bonus promoting survivability in one or the other way and/or reduce their sigs to the range of their t1 counter-parts.
why do we need 3/4 (!) of the dictors shooting missiles? especially if you remove distinction between light missile and rocket boats. I can understand leaving the missiles on heretic and flycatcher, although the different sides of missiles could get more reinforced, being steady, good dmg very well projected but stuck to kinetic - flycatcher - and the dmg flexibilty in this case for the heretic. so give the eris another focus than missiles and change the developing corporation accordingly.
|

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
692
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 10:27:00 -
[213] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:(...) FASTER AND MORE AGILE THAN ANY of the other races!!!(...) This is wrong. CCP have stated before that Minmatar are the fastest, not the most agile by nature. Gallente are more agile due to their natural-esque design [citation needed] and need the agility to combat the slower speed and shorter range of their weapons to be able to slingshot into range.
Caldari and Amarr are bricks in their respective types of tanking.
Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar
By design |

Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 10:36:00 -
[214] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote: Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar By design
Yep they changed it a few years back, and I agree with that, but why aren't you adding mass to it? All ships use MWD or AB, if speed advantage is lost only with that module, something is VERY wrong. Not being able to be the faster not even in a straight line? wtf
|

X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1623
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 10:47:00 -
[215] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes. Impeach Jacques Roden! (Split weapons systems suck) |

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
344
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 11:12:00 -
[216] - Quote
Wow, thank goodness the Eris did keep its ability to field 1 light drone....
That light drone is such an awesome help to its DPS or even using a single EC-300 to escape...when you're tackled and tanking hard...
...... Of course, I'm being sarcastic - The split weapon system Eris is fundamentally a terrible idea. Give it 7 turret / 7 launchers or even 5/5 and a full 25 bandwidth or something.
Right now it is still a pile. Cheers. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2496
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 11:38:00 -
[217] - Quote
The Heretic appears to be a better missile platform than the Flycatcher :-( CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

GeeShizzle MacCloud
367
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 12:15:00 -
[218] - Quote
honestly some of the slot layouts are really debilitating bearing in mind their role. i totally agree with Grath about the 50% MWD sig reduction on dictors.
The Flycatcher is seriously hindered by that single low slot, it needs +1, with possibly a -2 slots in highs. Eris having 2 mids is an issue especially without a tracking bonus of any kind. 3 mids 4 lows with maybe a -2 in highs.
consider the more widely used interdictors are the ones that arent hamstrung by bad low slot layouts. if the idea is to have each ship have the same number of combined mids and lows, but a different layout is to try force some kind of difference, theres a better way to do it. |

Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
140
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 12:21:00 -
[219] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote: Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar By design
Yep they changed it a few years back, .... Indeed. Back then they also decided that Caldari would be agile, but slow. Which makes the 6.36 align time of the Flycatcher vs the 6.41 align time of the Sabre quite ok. And puts the 6.21 align time of the Heretic - with a lower mass than the Sabre - firmly in the realm of WTF. Oh look, a 3 headed monkey.
|

Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
419
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 12:25:00 -
[220] - Quote
Salvage drone on the Eris ? |
|

Wu Phat
Ugandan Hit Squad DARKNESS.
39
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 12:45:00 -
[221] - Quote
NO MORE SPLIT DAMAGE ON SHIPS !!!!!!!! The Eris is A Blaster Boat, So It Should Only Have Blasters. Blasphemer Blasphemer Blasphemer Blasphemer Blasphemer !!!!!!!!!!! |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
692
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 12:46:00 -
[222] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote: Salvage drone on the Eris ? For your enemy to scoop to dronebay to salvage your wreck? How nice of you! |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
582
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:04:00 -
[223] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:(...) FASTER AND MORE AGILE THAN ANY of the other races!!!(...) This is wrong. CCP have stated before that Minmatar are the fastest, not the most agile by nature. Gallente are more agile due to their natural-esque design [citation needed] and need the agility to combat the slower speed and shorter range of their weapons to be able to slingshot into range. Caldari and Amarr are bricks in their respective types of tanking. Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar By design
Yet the minamtar one here is the LEAST agile. LEss than amarr!!!
And No in th epast minmatar were the more agile. When i started this game that was the official statement. TWHen they added gallente more agility tahn minmatar was when they started loosing the races identities! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
115
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:09:00 -
[224] - Quote
I really dislike the loss of the tracking bonus on the Eris.
Is there any reason why you want to force everyone to use missiles?
I personally have no skill for missiles/rockets/torps at all and i dont appreciate it at all that you try to force me to train that even though i am a fan of gallente ships. |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
582
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:18:00 -
[225] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote: Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar By design
Yep they changed it a few years back, and I agree with that, but why aren't you adding mass to it? All ships use MWD or AB, if speed advantage is lost only with that module, something is VERY wrong. Not being able to be the faster not even in a straight line? wtf
And that is when they started doing it WRONG! Minamtar shoudl never have gained so much mass and more HP. THey shoudl ahve been kept at their INTERESTIGN PLACE. FRAGILE and nimble.
THat change for me was the most stupid thing gamebalance wise CCP ever made.
Increasing mass on minamtar ship to coutner their speed made the whole speed advantage NULL and VOID.
That is HORRIBLE game design by standarization "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Catastrophic Uprising
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:48:00 -
[226] - Quote
beside split damage on eris it also has a single drone... Why?? remove it or give 20/40 for drones. |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
693
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:52:00 -
[227] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:That is HORRIBLE game design by standarization You know what is also horrible game design? Having four races, and only one of them being worth flying because all the other ones suck in comparison because the most important attribute in the game is speed. |

Garan Nardieu
Moira. Villore Accords
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:58:00 -
[228] - Quote
Just a post in support for fixing the abomination that proposed Eris is. Make it a pure hybrid or rocket boat, give folks a choice of how they gonna fly it by providing 6 or 7 weapon slots for hybrids and rockets, just don't leave that useless split weapons relic of the past kind of thing on it.  |

GreGh Rakrot
Rionnag Alba The Fourth District
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:06:00 -
[229] - Quote
BORG HELLinHEAVEN wrote:Make interdictors imune to their own bubles :), not imune to others bubles
Make it so. And lower their sig radius.
|

Vulfen
Snuff Box
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:06:00 -
[230] - Quote
Flycatcher and Heretic look like good prospects for small gangs, especially around factional warfare , the Sabre will still be the boss of bubbling nothing else can match the speed.
ERIS will still be the cheep choice and can still match all the others when it comes to being a dedicated bubbler |
|

Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Catastrophic Uprising
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:19:00 -
[231] - Quote
ERIS: 8H 2M 4L, 6Turret 2Launcher
No drones
bonuses: per destrroyer level: +5% to hubrid turret damage +10% to hubrid turret tracking
per interdictor level: +10% to armor hp +10% bubble reload rate |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:24:00 -
[232] - Quote
HERETIC - Carthum
Amarr Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Energy Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Energy Turret Tracking
Interdictors Bonuses: 4% bonus to armor resistances per level 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 3M, 5L; 5 turrets, Fittings: 60(+3) PWG, 240(+10) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 600 / 900 / 800 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 750(+187.5) / 375s() / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310(+11) / 3.5(-0.019) / 1280000(-91000) / 6.21(-0.48) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 525 / 7(+1) Sensor strength: 12(+2) Radar Signature radius: 58
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:27:00 -
[233] - Quote
FLYCATCHER
Caldari Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level (was 5%) 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Velocity per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 4% bonus to shield resistances 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 3L; 5 launchers ,1 turret Fittings: 60(+4) PWG, 270(+5) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 / 600 / 650(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 650(+150) / 325s(-8.33) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 315 / 3.4(+0.53) / 1350000(-222000) / 6.36s(+0.1) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 475 / 7 Sensor strength: 14(+2) Gravimetric Signature radius: 60 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:28:00 -
[234] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:That is HORRIBLE game design by standarization They had to do it, speed was out of control at the time, they nerfed mass hard.
The idea is Minmatar is faster, Galente is agile (so it can slingshot) and a bit less mass so it can accelerate faster (and take advantage of the slingshot). The thing is Minmatar needs to keep range against some AND get closer against others even when using the same weapon system, they can't be bricks unable to turn and unable to accelerate, it should exist a perfect spot here, please find it. Fine tune your mass/agility values (and not only in this ship class).
Hannott Thanos wrote:(...)the most important attribute in the game is speed. Nope, it's the combination of the 3, speed, mass, agility. That's why they keep base speed 5m higher, and then they nerf it with mass/agility. You have more armor, everybody install plates, they have even more armor, positions between them didn't change. You have more speed, everybody install a mwd, you don't have more speed anymore. The 5m/sec base speed advantage in so many ships? It doesn't exist at all, it looks that there isn't fine tuning at the moment, just rushed numbers.
This is getting out of whack. I think they have a new script, they input the number of slots, and it spits out a ship, only reason for that Eris. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:30:00 -
[235] - Quote
ERIS , Duvolle labs
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 4M, 4L; 5 turrets, 1 launcher Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 700 / 800 / 850 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 55 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:32:00 -
[236] - Quote
Sabre
Minmatar Destroyer Bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret falloff per level 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 3L; 5 turrets, 1 launcher Fittings: 58 PWG, 230(+2) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 825 / 750 / 700 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 600(+162.5) / 300s(+8.333) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 550 / 7(+1) Sensor strength: 11(+2) Ladar Signature radius: 50 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Jumpshot244
Control-Space DARKNESS.
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:40:00 -
[237] - Quote
Didn't you guys say you were getting rid of damage type specific buffs? So why is the Eris getting missile bonus to all types while flycatcher gets kinetic only?
Yes the split weapon idea sucks, but tons of people have already brought that up.
You guys have a serious case of one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
|

Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
140
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:43:00 -
[238] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:...the Sabre will still be the boss of bubbling nothing else can match the speed. With only 10m/s less base speed, more lows and better mass and agility the Heretic would like a word with you.
|

Vanilla Vila
labour anal
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 14:54:00 -
[239] - Quote
Jumpshot244 wrote:Didn't you guys say you were getting rid of damage type specific buffs? So why is the Eris getting missile bonus to all types while flycatcher gets kinetic only?
Yes the split weapon idea sucks, but tons of people have already brought that up.
You guys have a serious case of one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
LOL
+1 |

Sh'iriin
DEFCON. The Initiative.
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 15:49:00 -
[240] - Quote
Quote:FLYCATCHER 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level (was 5%)
ERIS 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage)
ERROR... |
|

Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
279
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 16:21:00 -
[241] - Quote
sabre's agility gets nerfed. GåÆ sabre is getting nerfed.
You're a liar if you decline that.
Revamp should focus on making other dictors non-****, not including a nerf to the one ship that does work. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3633385&#post3633385 - 15% more tank since the 1.1-patch. |

Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
787
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 16:31:00 -
[242] - Quote
I have to agree with a lot of people here:
If you want to steer Caldari toward Kinetic, fine, but do it by giving them a 10% bonus to Kinetic and 5% bonus to every other damage type, or something that doesn't make the Caldari missile boat the weakest and most predictable missile boat. Failing that, restore the Thermal restriction to the Eris and add an EM restriction to the Heretic.
If you must split weapons on the Eris, at least go 5/5 turrets/launchers, but preferably 6/6. Even more preferably, just pick one. I love the Catalyst hull, so I want to fly one, but I'm not flying a failboat.
I also have to WTF at the Sabre becoming the slowest and heaviest dictor. I mean, the buffs to the Heretic are very, very nice, but that's because it suddenly has All the Things(TM).
I love the idea of a little MJD that Dictors can fit. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |

Harreeb Alls
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 16:34:00 -
[243] - Quote
Looks like a lot of people want Fozzie's job. While some of the things pointed out are valid.
I'm happy this class is getting these much needed buffs, I don't see what everyone is so mad about. The primary function of these ships is bubbles and they will still perform that role as they always have. However, with the interceptors now being bubble immune as well as the much needed buffs to EAF's, the interdictors have now been given a secondary role as viable anti-tackle. I think they will be much more useful overall now, because of the added utility they can bring. The missiles will obviously have inferior DPS to the Saber but far superior damage projection with light missiles, or you can go rockets and put their raw dps closer to the sabres. In discussing these changes with my corpmates and a few old friends, we are all very excited to see these changes implemented.
A lot of people are complaining about split weapon systems, the new Scythe Fleet issue is proof it can work, and I can see why some people are confused about the ERIS being the ship that gets it, as Gallente is not traditionally the split weapons race. Maybe on top of the 5% explosion velocity, give it 5% cap use on hybrids as well. This way it will have the same amount of bonus's to hybrids as other dictors have to their primary weapon systems. I think a second low on the fly catcher is a good idea. Having to choose between the only dmg mod for missiles and a dcu is a bit silly, and painful. Yea, it's got 5 mids, but it is short a launcher. Having the slots for ballistic control + dcu seems fair.
I think this class could also use 4 new ships as well (just like ccp added 4 ships to the t1 class with the talwar, corax, algos, and dragoon) perhaps similar to these ships but with some solid bonus's to each races secondary ewar. Point range for gallentee with maybe armor rep bonus in a drone boat, neuts for Amarr in a drone boat, painters for minmatar with an mwd sig bonus and some solid base stats, and a smartbomb cap use or radius bonus for caldari and a shield resistance bonus (because they need a secondary ewar, and **** ecm XD ) At least it would give capsuleers some more options and flexibility for training into interdictors skill. Or even allow them to use a t1 cloak with no speed loss while cloaked (but they still have a lengthy delay on doing anything after being cloaked, and cannot warp while cloaked) Just to give them a fighting chance to escape their own bubbles. Sure, pilots with high awareness can still decloak them, but with the anti tackle potential this class has they may actually be able to handle that 1 frigate who saw where they were before they cloaked, after launching a bubble.
However, I'm being silly. These look great, and I can't wait fly them. The sabre will still be good, but the rest of the ships will be nearly on par with it now as far as I can tell. |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
565
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 16:43:00 -
[244] - Quote
Harreeb Alls wrote: However, I'm being silly. These look great, and I can't wait fly them. The sabre will still be good, but the rest of the ships will be nearly on par with it now as far as I can tell.
Every other hull is getting a buff sabre is getting a nerf......sounds like rifter, rupture, hurricane, and the rest of the minni line.
Going to be useless. |

Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 16:54:00 -
[245] - Quote
Harreeb Alls wrote:Looks like a lot of people want Fozzie's job.  While some of the things pointed out are valid. A lot of people are complaining about split weapon systems, the new Scythe Fleet issue is proof it can work, and I can see why some people are confused about the ERIS being the ship that gets it, as Gallente is not traditionally the split weapons race. Maybe on top of the 5% explosion velocity, give it 5% cap use on hybrids as well. This way it will have the same amount of bonus's to hybrids as other dictors have to their primary weapon systems. I think a second low on the fly catcher is a good idea. Having to choose between the only dmg mod for missiles and a dcu is a bit silly, and painful. Yea, it's got 5 mids, but it is short a launcher. Having the slots for ballistic control + dcu seems fair. I think most people aren't looking for Fozzie's job, personally I'm here cause these changes will add to my gaming experiences and I want to have a say in the matter.
The reason split weapons works on scythe is because you can choose. On this thing you can't, and I don't see how blasters and rockets go together, even though their both close range they're on the other ends of the spectrum. The fallof bonus kinda helps that making it a null blaster/rocket kiter but I feel like there's better ways do it. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |

Nerriana
Fistful of Finns Bearf0rce One
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 17:16:00 -
[246] - Quote
Few comments on proposed changes:
*Split weapon bonus on Eris? Bad idea Make it 6/6 as has been proposed here or preferably just focus on blasters. 2 midslots is kinda LOL: You want minimum of 1) prop mod, 2) Scram, 3) Web for interceptor midslots, armor tank or no. Very few people, not including me, will fly Eris without these three and simply choose eg. Sabre instead.
*Fleet dictors will fit 2 bubblers and cloak for sound tactical reasons to the exclusion of guns and any and all other mods. By using Co-Processors and/or other fitting modules if necessary. Unless made impossible by CCP fiat (eg. by allowing only one bubble launcher to be fit), which would open other cans of worms.
*Currently dictors have very little survivability due to the fact that they get trapped into their own bubbles. I do not agree with CCP Fozzie regarding potential OP:ness of bubble-immune dictors: Nullified T3:s have better DPS and probably a covops cloak to boot. Due to aforementioned tactical reasons, a dictor will always be the immediate primary to the opposing fleet. Giving it ability to warp off after dropping a bubble would give it a small chance of escape instead of being a kamikaze fleet asset few people want to fly.
*Flycatcher's single lowslot is kinda LOL. In fleet operations it's a Hobson's Choice of fitting a Co-Processor II to get that second bubble launcher. Which doesn't endear it to pilots.
*Bubble launcher, like MJD, needs a visual indicator of the remaining cooldown timer. A Red ring progressing counter-clockwise, for example. |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
584
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 17:20:00 -
[247] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:That is HORRIBLE game design by standarization You know what is also horrible game design? Having four races, and only one of them being worth flying because all the other ones suck in comparison because the most important attribute in the game is speed.
That lies in the problem of the game design making speed too relevant. And know what? Know when speed became so relevant .. AFTER the nano nerf. Because suddenly only a few were able to reach USEFUL speeds where piloting opitions became relevant. BEfore the nanon nerf all races scould reach speeds where good piloting could mitigate damage.
THis is all to blame on the HORRIBLE work at the 2 great nano nerfs. And the stupidity of Overheat on MWD that basically cancels all the meaning of having your ship a bit faster than your enemy.
One bad does nto justifies another. Minmatar shoudl stay the faster one and the most fragile. Not made into a non flavor race. What is minamtar flavor now? None.. its generalized. Nott discussing if its efficient, discussing how bland and horrible design it is. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Nergart
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 17:25:00 -
[248] - Quote
still waiting to see all dictors get aggression when dropping a bubble.
happens for heavy interdictors as soon as they activate their warp disruption bubble they get aggression for 60 seconds
should be the same for dictors, currently dictors are too powerfull for station camping,
as they can just dock without any fear Eve does not have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. Either learn to fly on the way down or its going to be a hard landing |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
585
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 17:34:00 -
[249] - Quote
Nergart wrote:still waiting to see all dictors get aggression when dropping a bubble.
happens for heavy interdictors as soon as they activate their warp disruption bubble they get aggression for 60 seconds
should be the same for dictors, currently dictors are too powerfull for station camping,
as they can just dock without any fear
a hauler can also drop an anchorable bubble and not get agro :P "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Nergart
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 17:49:00 -
[250] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Nergart wrote:still waiting to see all dictors get aggression when dropping a bubble.
happens for heavy interdictors as soon as they activate their warp disruption bubble they get aggression for 60 seconds
should be the same for dictors, currently dictors are too powerfull for station camping,
as they can just dock without any fear a hauler can also drop an anchorable bubble and not get agro :P
once the bubble is launched its an independent item. which also has an anchor time of over 1 minute
id take that for a solution make it so all dictor bubbles take 60 seconds to activate that would do
Eve does not have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. Either learn to fly on the way down or its going to be a hard landing |
|

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
647
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 17:51:00 -
[251] - Quote
Interceptor T2 : 40mil Average price of a fit : 20 mil Let say that you have a clone that cost 10 mil + 20mil in implants.
That's almost 100 mil just to deploy a bubble that stays three minuts before being oneshoted once you activate your microwarpdrive and reach 400m of sig radius in the middle of a bubble.
Who would pay 100 mil for that ? Still better to use a medium bubble at this rate...
If I take the flycatcher as an example... Interdictors needs a REBALANCE, not some tweaking that includes +49 shield and -1 hull (lol )
It needs to have at least doubled survivability, a role bonus du MWD sig radius. (Logical from a ship that's directly at the center of a bubble most of the time)... Not 25% more kinetic only dps.
Edit - Suggestion incoming :
By the way, I would like to suggest a new variant of the interdiction probe : The cloaked interdiction probe. It would work in a very simple way : Drop a cloacked interdiction probe, it stays in space for 30 minuts at max skills... Invisible AND inactive.
You can move away and cloak if you want. If you're at less than 100km from the probe AND uncloaked, you can tap the interdiction sphere launcher again to uncloak the probe and activate the bubble for the regular bubble probe duration.
New gameplay, perfect for ambushes, fun. G££ <= Me |

Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 17:57:00 -
[252] - Quote
Little disappointing honestly. The changes are welcome, but I don't think it makes any difference. Eris still is the least useful and the Heretic still has fitting issues (it can't tank, have any decent DPS, and bubble at the same time, unlike the Sabre). It just still seems like the primary fit for the less-useful three interdictors is going to be two sphere launchers, some slight tank and speed/maneuverability mods.
Also, I don't think including light missiles in the Heretic is enough of a change. Interdictors need to be right in the middle of everything just to bubble, so you're well within the extended rocket range anyway. |

Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 18:01:00 -
[253] - Quote
I agree, these proved just as dissapointing as the interceptor changes. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
775
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 18:19:00 -
[254] - Quote
Interdictors are the only class that can fit the Sphere Launchers, right? So it would make sense to give them the same treatment that Covert Cloaks and Siege and Bastion Modules get, wouldn't it? Slash their fitting requirements and add a "Can Be Fitted To" field in the item properties. Then remove the bonus from the hull and give it something different and more interesting. |

Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 18:21:00 -
[255] - Quote
This is just my opinion but here it goes.
I think dictors need to be split into 2 classes. We now have 2 racial destroyers per race make one more fleet oriented with less high slots and more tank. Make the 2nd one more high slots and less speed/tank/agility. This would make both sides happy. Also on that note you could then give the Fly catcher 4% to shield and the saber and Eries a 7.5% bonus to rep bonus. This would allow these ships to be more survivable in the type of situations they would fill. It would also introduce a new ship class and make the other masses happy.
Also because this is much needed please consider this.
I believe the actual interdictor sphere launcher needs a revamp. Sure years ago it worked for the scale of the game, but thankfully the game has grown since then, specifically fleet battles.
I propose you limit the sphere launcher to only one fit at a time. Change the rate of fire to 3-5 seconds. Remove the bonus to the sphere launcher rate of fire and make it +1 to amount of bubbles in the launcher clip with a base amount of 0. At level 1 interdictor you can carry one bubble in the launcher and at max skill, level 5, you can have 5 loaded. Now have the reload time decently long.
With this you have a launcher that fullfills the needs of today's fleets and allows fitting room for a more logical tank so the pilot can be more than a 15 second hero. Also when the launcher is reloading, the pilot can bail off the battlefield or stay and perform some other duties like anti-tackle role without being gimped due to 2-3 launchers and a cloak.
I don't know who posted this originally but this makes the most sense. |

Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 18:25:00 -
[256] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Interdictors are the only class that can fit the Sphere Launchers, right? So it would make sense to give them the same treatment that Covert Cloaks and Siege and Bastion Modules get, wouldn't it? Slash their fitting requirements and add a "Can Be Fitted To" field in the item properties. Then remove the bonus from the hull and give it something different and more interesting. Like mwd signature! Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |

Imigo Montoya
Abraxsys Get Off My Lawn
116
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 18:41:00 -
[257] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23)
Amarr have their armour resists Caldari have their shield resists Gallente have their high DPS Minmatar have their speed and agility
These are the things that help ships of each race stay alive, whether through tank, gank, or ability to hit and GTFO.
While the Sabre is still the fastest and has the best agility rating, its effective agility (as shown by align time, determined by agility and mass (as I understand it)) is now not only not the best, it's the worst of all the interdictors.
Sure, a sabre can fit nanos to improve agility, but so can all the others. The comparison needs to be made on the base stats and the improvements to the others have meant that the Sabre is relatively worse off now.
I think this might need another small balance pass. |

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
776
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 18:46:00 -
[258] - Quote
Imigo Montoya wrote: Amarr have their armour resists Caldari have their shield resists Gallente have their high DPS Minmatar have their speed and agility
I may as well say it here:
I thought the Minmatar were kings of speed while Gallente were second-place for speed and kings of agility.
|

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
565
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 18:49:00 -
[259] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Imigo Montoya wrote: Amarr have their armour resists Caldari have their shield resists Gallente have their high DPS Minmatar have their speed and agility
I may as well say it here: I thought the Minmatar were kings of speed while Gallente were second-place for speed and kings of agility.
although with the Eris being entirely armour based it kind of kills that off somewhat Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
206
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:17:00 -
[260] - Quote
I fly Sabres a lot on a dedicated alt. Bringing the other Interdictors up to the same level of ability is a great idea, but poorly implemented so far. Interdictors have an important role in all scales of combat and should be balanced for all scales.
1. Large fleet - drop bubble, pray, die. 2. Small gang - drop bubble, scram, DPS, pray, die. 3. Solo - cloak, wait, bubble, scram, pray, kill.
Interdictors should have a 6 + 1 high slot layout. Only able to fit one bubble blower (Marlona's idea above is good). No split weapons nonsense (proposed Eris is bad). No drone bay. DPS at same level as current Sabre is decent benchmark. Sig radius should be lower for all dictors. Fittings should be slightly more generous (maybe lower fitting cost for bubble blower?).
Eris - 6 turrets, 1 utility slot, 3 mids, 4 lows - speed bonus Flycatcher - 5 launchers, 1 utility slot, 5 mids, 3 lows - shield resist bonus Heretic - 5 turrets, 1 utility slot, 3 mids, 5 lows - armor resist bonus Sabre - 6 turret/launchers, 1 utility slot, 4 mids, 3 lows - sig radius bonus |
|

Pleniers
Appetite 4 Destruction
120
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:29:00 -
[261] - Quote
Can we not have the "slip guns" deal in the Eris please? |

Patrice Macmahon
The Lost Minmatar Legion LEX LEGIONEM
30
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:10:00 -
[262] - Quote
Is the warp disruption bubble mechanic also finally getting tweaked?
The reason I ask is that currently the bubble mechanic only affect a warp parabola (the final landing point) if the bubble was in place BEFORE the ship initiated warp.
With the changes to warp speed time, will the mechanic be adjusted so that a ship is stopped on a bubble if the bubble was placed before the ship enters grid.
This would allow a fast moving interdictor to warp past a ship, land on grid, and force their final landing destination. Currently if you have a ship following in warp, drop a bubble, the ship ignores your bubble because their landing zone was calculated before the bubble was put in place.
Any remarks on this game mechanic ccp? -á"Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki."-á |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
695
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:25:00 -
[263] - Quote
Patrice Macmahon wrote:Is the warp disruption bubble mechanic also finally getting tweaked?
The reason I ask is that currently the bubble mechanic only affect a warp parabola (the final landing point) if the bubble was in place BEFORE the ship initiated warp.
With the changes to warp speed time, will the mechanic be adjusted so that a ship is stopped on a bubble if the bubble was placed before the ship enters grid.
This would allow a fast moving interdictor to warp past a ship, land on grid, and force their final landing destination. Currently if you have a ship following in warp, drop a bubble, the ship ignores your bubble because their landing zone was calculated before the bubble was put in place.
Any remarks on this game mechanic ccp? This would be so damn amazing! Imageine a battleship warping off towards a planet far away. You follow it and drop a bubble before it lands and it's dragged into it. Holy batman, make this happen! |

dethleffs
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
262
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:37:00 -
[264] - Quote
Meh. Changes are bad, but some ideas in this thread are awesome. Make it so!
Also, the reason we fly 10mn dictors is because their sig is too big with mwd, Identify the real problem and fix that instead of bandaiding stuff please. |

GeeShizzle MacCloud
367
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:42:00 -
[265] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Patrice Macmahon wrote:Is the warp disruption bubble mechanic also finally getting tweaked?
The reason I ask is that currently the bubble mechanic only affect a warp parabola (the final landing point) if the bubble was in place BEFORE the ship initiated warp.
With the changes to warp speed time, will the mechanic be adjusted so that a ship is stopped on a bubble if the bubble was placed before the ship enters grid.
This would allow a fast moving interdictor to warp past a ship, land on grid, and force their final landing destination. Currently if you have a ship following in warp, drop a bubble, the ship ignores your bubble because their landing zone was calculated before the bubble was put in place.
Any remarks on this game mechanic ccp? This would be so damn amazing! Imageine a battleship warping off towards a planet far away. You follow it and drop a bubble before it lands and it's dragged into it. Holy batman, make this happen!
so u dont just want to be able to warp off towards where a battleship warped off to with a pretty sizeable margin of error on land time, but you also want to be able to pre-emptively force his warp out location to within 2000m? in a ship that can land within 30km from tackle range and have the speed to close that distance before any kind of re-alignment?
dont make me laugh! uve already had your cake in the form of the accel buffs, and now eating the cake with the proposed (yet somewhat lacklustre) interdictor changes, do not make or support ridiculous, ill thought out proposals like this one. |

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
546
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:14:00 -
[266] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:so u dont just want to be able to warp off towards where a battleship warped off to with a pretty sizeable margin of error on land time, but you also want to be able to pre-emptively force his warp out location to within 2000m? in a ship that can land within 30km from tackle range and have the speed to close that distance before any kind of re-alignment?
dont make me laugh! uve already had your cake in the form of the accel buffs, and now eating the cake with the proposed (yet somewhat lacklustre) interdictor changes, do not make or support ridiculous, ill thought out proposals like this one. Let's face it, if someone plays "it's too easy to avoid combat in EVE" card, not much you can argue with. |

Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
258
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:18:00 -
[267] - Quote
I do not like the split weapons on the Eris. |

XvXTeacherVxV
S.E.N.T.I.N.E.L.
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:30:00 -
[268] - Quote
Harreeb Alls wrote: A lot of people are complaining about split weapon systems, the new Scythe Fleet issue is proof it can work, and I can see why some people are confused about the ERIS being the ship that gets it, as Gallente is not traditionally the split weapons race. Maybe on top of the 5% explosion velocity, give it 5% cap use on hybrids as well. This way it will have the same amount of bonus's to hybrids as other dictors have to their primary weapon systems. I think a second low on the fly catcher is a good idea. Having to choose between the only dmg mod for missiles and a dcu is a bit silly, and painful. Yea, it's got 5 mids, but it is short a launcher. Having the slots for ballistic control + dcu seems fair.
The fleet scythe is proof that it can work when done right. The Eris with a 4/4 layout is a perfect example of how to do it wrong. Also.. cap bonus to hybrids? What? I don't even understand where this suggestion came from.
EVE Forums need a button right next to "like" that says "you need to calm your silly self down." |

TomThe Smurf
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:37:00 -
[269] - Quote
Tenaris Zeratul wrote:New Eris is garbage. Please make it either missiles or turrets.
Oh noes there isnt a gall. ship that gets buffed to the point where its clearly the best.. FIX NOW.... gall has just about every other ship class in the bag, they dont need this one too. Casoff the touchy feely alliance. Tranny pics all day from this white woman in a black mans -ábody |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1558
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:11:00 -
[270] - Quote
TomThe Smurf wrote:Tenaris Zeratul wrote:New Eris is garbage. Please make it either missiles or turrets. Oh noes there isnt a gall. ship that gets buffed to the point where its clearly the best.. FIX NOW.... gall has just about every other ship class in the bag, they dont need this one too.
Gallente masterrace. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
|

Galphii
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
184
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:32:00 -
[271] - Quote
The survivability of these ships is still in doubt on the battlefield - their sig radius is larger than a destroyer, with less hitpoints. Does this mean you *like* the fact they're rarely more than suicide bubble droppers? I've seen people rarely bother to fit weapons or other mods because they get smoked almost every single time they're on the field. They are a priority target, and not exactly cheap, so give them a greatly reduced signature radius or some increased resists (up to half tech 2) and also another 20% on the hitpoints.
Just because people fly sabres all the time doesn't mean that ship is perfect and should be the gold standard. Fix 'em properly. X |

Meyr
SiN Corp
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:12:00 -
[272] - Quote
Much like every other Gallente pilot -
WTF is with your fascination with a mixed weapon system on the Eris? Haven't you heard enough complaints over the years about this crap design feature? Hasn't enough abuse been heaped, and rightfully so, upon this ill-thought-out concept?
Second thing, WTF is up with you making everything except the Sabre dependent upon missiles? Much like split weapon systems, haven't we tried this? Give Caldari missiles, it's their forte! Let Amarr fit lasers, and let Gallente fit a FULL RACK of hybrids!
If these things are supposed to be able to catch and kill Interceptors, you've given everyone except for the Sabre (as usual) an exceptionally LOUSY platform with which to attempt it.
A T2-fit Catalyst would be more likely to scare an Inty pilot, and, even at that, not much. MAKE THE OTHER THREE AS CAPABLE AS THE SABRE IN ACTUAL COMBAT, NOT ON PAPER!!! |

Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:39:00 -
[273] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Why do all races have missile ships now?
I don't get it.. We don't see lasers or Ac's being flavour for other races :S
The primary reason for this is that missiles and guns are two completely different weapon systems...always have been the difference between heavy missiles and medium beams are night and day compared to beams and arties. This is mostly due to support skills. Missiles have a different set of support skills than lasers whereas lasers, projectiles, and even hybrids have similar support skills so there isnt as much cross training going from hybrids to lasers compared to going from for instance projectiles to missiles or the other way round. Allowing more ships to have missiles prevents guns from having a monopoly over ships. I rather like the new influx of missile boats.
Now onto the ship balances....all of them look great so far, I love how you have brought out the need for true maneuverability in them. HICs are a bit more rigid in terms of moving around so its nice to get some flexibility in terms of a more agile interdictor. Bang on job, Ive never bothered training into them because its not really worth it given the comparison to HICs so I skipped them just like T1 dessies. However, I do think I will train into one just to have a bit more fun at a cheaper rate :D |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
587
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:45:00 -
[274] - Quote
Imigo Montoya wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23) Amarr have their armour resists Caldari have their shield resists Gallente have their high DPS Minmatar have their speed and agility These are the things that help ships of each race stay alive, whether through tank, gank, or ability to hit and GTFO. While the Sabre is still the fastest and has the best agility rating, its effective agility (as shown by align time, determined by agility and mass (as I understand it)) is now not only not the best, it's the worst of all the interdictors. Sure, a sabre can fit nanos to improve agility, but so can all the others. The comparison needs to be made on the base stats and the improvements to the others have meant that the Sabre is relatively worse off now. I think this might need another small balance pass.
That a million times. THere is NOTHIGN that justifies minamtar having the LEAST agile ship. NO it doe snto matter what any other dreams .. its WRONG.. all WRONG. If you think that is right you guys should NOT be balancing ships for this game!
PLease CCP, your game balance peopel shoudl be people that understand the CONCEPTS OF THE RACES, FLAVORS and ROLES. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

dexter xio
TURN LEFT
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:39:00 -
[275] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Patrice Macmahon wrote:Is the warp disruption bubble mechanic also finally getting tweaked?
The reason I ask is that currently the bubble mechanic only affect a warp parabola (the final landing point) if the bubble was in place BEFORE the ship initiated warp.
With the changes to warp speed time, will the mechanic be adjusted so that a ship is stopped on a bubble if the bubble was placed before the ship enters grid.
This would allow a fast moving interdictor to warp past a ship, land on grid, and force their final landing destination. Currently if you have a ship following in warp, drop a bubble, the ship ignores your bubble because their landing zone was calculated before the bubble was put in place.
Any remarks on this game mechanic ccp? This would be so damn amazing! Imageine a battleship warping off towards a planet far away. You follow it and drop a bubble before it lands and it's dragged into it. Holy batman, make this happen!
RIP every gang that engages a blob with 2-3 dics? Dexter xio - That cool guy |

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
241
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 11:20:00 -
[276] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Nartel Vortok wrote:Anna Djan wrote:I was really looking forward to the changes from a non 0.0 dessy pilot.
Quite disappointed.
From the stats I can not see a reason why i'd pick these over standard dessies or AF's (non 0.0 perspective remember). Why would you use a dictor out of nullsec? The entire point of it is to bubble, not to be some bad gimmick lowsec pvp ship. Interdictors are actually some of the best ships to blitz the SoE epic arc. Due to their high warp speed making all the traveling faster (which is getting an overall buff) and their ability to mulch NPC frigates. This is a very tiny niche role but it is a hi sec one.
Confirming that there are uses for dictors in high sec too. You just have to dig deep to find them. Here's one example: I used the Eris for the longest of time as a loot&salvage ship, fast, eight hi slots and all those low slots, yummy. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
546
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 11:43:00 -
[277] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:That a million times. THere is NOTHIGN that justifies minamtar having the LEAST agile ship. NO it doe snto matter what any other dreams .. its WRONG.. all WRONG. If you think that is right you guys should NOT be balancing ships for this game!
PLease CCP, your game balance peopel shoudl be people that understand the CONCEPTS OF THE RACES, FLAVORS and ROLES. Just calm down, we all know how cases such as theese are handled. "We are happy with X, so we aren't touching this, instead we are taking Y, Z, and others to X's level. Therefore, this season X will be worthless s***." |

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny The Kadeshi
146
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:29:00 -
[278] - Quote
Galphii wrote:The survivability of these ships is still in doubt on the battlefield - their sig radius is larger than a destroyer, with less hitpoints. Does this mean you *like* the fact they're rarely more than suicide bubble droppers? I've seen people rarely bother to fit weapons or other mods because they get smoked almost every single time they're on the field. They are a priority target, and not exactly cheap, so give them a greatly reduced signature radius or some increased resists (up to half tech 2) and also another 20% on the hitpoints.
Just because people fly sabres all the time doesn't mean that ship is perfect and should be the gold standard. Fix 'em properly.
yup, they are flown because a dictor is a necessity. everytime a pilot "surrenders" himself to dictor-duty he knows, when there is a fight, he goes back home in a pod.
|

Bezdar22
0utLaw. Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:53:00 -
[279] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:FLYCATCHER
Caldari Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level (was 5%) 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Velocity per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 4% bonus to shield resistances 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 3L; 5 launchers ,1 turret Fittings: 60(+4) PWG, 270(+5) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 / 700 / 750 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 650(+150) / 325s(-8.33) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.4(+0.53) / 1350000(-222000) / 6.36s(+0.1) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 475 / 7 Sensor strength: 14(+2) Gravimetric Signature radius: 60
i loke this idea
|

Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:59:00 -
[280] - Quote
I'm going to suggest again the thing I suggested in the interceptor thread: Make interdictors immune to their own bubbles.
Light Interdictors are essentially the "trapper" kinda class in eve. A trapper shouldn't get caught in his own traps. To balance this they would gain agression from bubbling again. On top of the essential stat changes that have been discussed in this thread I also support the idea of new kinds of interdiction probes. Maybe one that only has a 5km radius but stays up for 5 minutes instead of just 1? Like an instant temporary drag bubble.
How would this change the game? Skilled cloaky interdictor pilots would be able to team tag tackle capitals with low risk, is this OP? No, it's not OP for the same reason that plex doesn't make eve pay to win: it requires alot of skill and good execution, essentially bringing back specialized tackling. Dictors can get caught in each others bubbles and can be in great peril if they try to reenter grid which they have to do sooner or later.
In gang warfare interdictors could stay behind the gang, bubble a gate and warp trapping a hostile chaser without having to sacrifice himself, it's a specialized trapping ship after all.
You might argue that this will make fast align shield interdictors the standard leaving armor dictors behind, how would you counter that? By giving armor dictors good enough (sig)tanking potential to be used in small gang armor doctrines. The high resist profile on the heretic does help that, but I feel like they need a general signature reduction and/or some kind of MWD signature reduction bonus since noone would think of AB fitting a dictor even in an armor doctrine.
As a solo pvper I think a change like this would also make me alot more motivated to fly light interdictors. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |
|

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1409
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:18:00 -
[281] - Quote
If you could put an interdiction sphere launcher at anything other than an interdictor you wouldn't fly an interdictor.
They are incredibly mediocre ships that are most commonly used as suicide bubble droppers. These changes don't do anything to help alleviate the problems with this ship class. |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
132
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:43:00 -
[282] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:
Confirming that there are uses for dictors in high sec too. You just have to dig deep to find them. Here's one example: I used the Eris for the longest of time as a loot&salvage ship, fast, eight hi slots and all those low slots, yummy.
+1 Made my first billion ratting / lvl3 mission running and salvaging in hisec in a Flycatcher. Now that I spend more time ratting in low (and a bit of null), the flycatcher is still my favorite bird. Too many people don't look outside a ship's given role. Their loss.
That one low slot is a daily Sophie's Choice, but whatever, I still think I like the proposed changes.
...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1820
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:02:00 -
[283] - Quote
Would it be terribad to give these ships a flat +1 to the warp disruption strength of fitted points and scrams as an additional role bonus? Inties get added range which is helpful everywhere, let dictors have a high/low sec utility role by grabbing warp stabbed targets. This is relevant with the current FW farming meta and especially recent T1 indy hauler changes that both see multiple stabs being fit on agile ships. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |

Corine Noas
Russian Thunder Squad Darkness of Despair
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:19:00 -
[284] - Quote
I like Grath's idea where dictor launcher has 1 (or 2) min reload cycle and max number of probes loaded depending on interdictor skill level (maximum 5). It would make dictors competent in terms of removing tacklers off himself and not just die to any ceptor because of "3 launchers + mwd + cloak + maximum co-proc's and a few guns to ***** killmails" fit. And maximum 1 dictor launcher per ship. |

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 15:31:00 -
[285] - Quote
Quote:ERIS GÇô Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.
"10mn AB plated fleet fits". Are you balancing these ships based on some idiot's idea of an Interdictor fit? Or worse, do you actually believe that people fly armor tanked interdictors? |

Forstbyte
The Flanders Corporation Yulai Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 15:36:00 -
[286] - Quote
I like most changes, except for:
- Eris: get rid of that split weapon sys OR go 6/6 on launcher/turret, lose the drone bay. - All of them could use a smaller sig. |

Patrice Macmahon
The Lost Minmatar Legion LEX LEGIONEM
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:04:00 -
[287] - Quote
I kind of like the idea of blasters + rockets for my Eris. Rockets would help with drone control. I can see a lot of gank potential out of the hull... except that it takes two damage mods to get similar DPS out of it compared to a sabre with one gryro.... -á"Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki."-á |

GeeShizzle MacCloud
367
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:12:00 -
[288] - Quote
To be totally honest there's a lot that needs to be done with interdictors to get them to a point where they fulfill their role without being almost entirely a suicide ship and fleet role choice.
If you consider the state of Heavy Interdictors, each one fulfills their role in fleet entirely without a single fitting mod, even when fitting dual bubbles, cloaks, cap injectors and tertiary mods like cynos and weapons. Thats on top of a full tank too with all important mods being T2. By comparison most if not all interdictor fits have at least 1 fitting mod if not more. Taking the baseline and arguably the best ship in terms of resources, the sabre as an example.
A Sabre fitted with a single bubble, cloak, tank and a scram already maxes out on CPU using important T2 mods. Thats before any Guns. If you attempt to fit 2 bubble launchers you run into fitting issues even fitting a minimal tank and no scram. The reason people fit 2 bubble launchers is that the situation where its preferred demands that 1 bubble is not enough in most cases and the activation cooldown on the bubble launcher stops it from being activated again.
In this regard Graths proposal of a bubble launcher with no activation cooldown, but a more limited probe capacity and lengthy reload cycle would fit the bill of what interdictor pilots need without having to fit 2 bubble launchers. This would reduce the CPU load on interdictors, a resource that crucial.
As for the issue of survivability, sabres are typically primary targets for fleets due to the nature they can tackle large groups of ships. theyre role is not to soak up damage as heavy interdictors fill the role of high tank large area tackling. Increasing base speed to mitigate damage will only encroach the roles of interceptors at their ability to reduce distance to targets. Increasing tank will only do little to help unless interdictors are given huge bonuses to it. its not likely that will happen, its also likely to be misused. The only way is to mitigate damage based on something other than tank and speed, and this is most easily done by playing with sig radius.
A negative bonus like Grath had said to MWD sig radius, akin to assault frigs and HACs would be perfect for this. |

Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
181
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:16:00 -
[289] - Quote
yes i can fly the heretic and call people heretics and be scary now! |

Corine Noas
Russian Thunder Squad Darkness of Despair
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:43:00 -
[290] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:Quote:ERIS GÇô Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon. "10mn AB plated fleet fits". Are you balancing these ships based on some idiot's idea of an Interdictor fit? Or worse, do you actually believe that people fly armor tanked interdictors? Fully agree. Raivi, plz do not balance ships based on oversized mods <_< |
|

bassie12bf1
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:32:00 -
[291] - Quote
Dual weapon system ugh, and even on a dictor, could have atleast make it possible to chose either instead of just both. |

Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
279
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:03:00 -
[292] - Quote
Corine Noas wrote:Marian Devers wrote:Quote:ERIS GÇô Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon. "10mn AB plated fleet fits". Are you balancing these ships based on some idiot's idea of an Interdictor fit? Or worse, do you actually believe that people fly armor tanked interdictors? Fully agree. Raivi, plz do not balance ships based on oversized mods <_<
Personally translated it to *eris can now mount a plate, guns and launchers or could also fit a 10mn with some leftover remainings of a tank, I tested it and it.... well.... fits*
That aside, in the right environment a 10mn coercer is tanking like a baws - same should happen to a 10mn eris bubbling a horde of ABCs or even sentrydomis (afaik they do not necessarily carry anything besides sentries)
Calling a 10mn bubble an idiot idea is quite premature aswell, especially people like you should appreciate the niche usage that this hull could be used for.
From my perspective, considering that a good friend flies the eris passionately already to quite impressive success (the guy who imo came up with the one true smallscale geddon fit, unlike all those scrubfits that are littering the kb (huehue 2 neuts, 5 cruise launchers - so scrub)), I do not think that plated dictors are majorly worse compared to shielddictors. They are just worse at decloaking and running away, but also better at tanking or getting under the guns of a single cruisersized target or bigger (a sigradius boosted by double-MSE as example for the sabre is significantly higher compared to a plated eris, if you don't 2MSE your sabre, you're doing it wrong anyways) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3633385&#post3633385 - 15% more tank since the 1.1-patch. |

Kane Fenris
NWP
96
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:55:00 -
[293] - Quote
nice changes like em ...till i get killed by one 
but the eris seems a little strange i'd rather see split weapons scythe FI style on it if tit must have split weapons |

Andreya
Direct Intent
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 19:34:00 -
[294] - Quote
My first time posting in years. The Rubicon changes I have seen so far have been innovative and fair. The Interdictor changes where the ones I was most excited for, yet unlike the other changes for Rubicon, these are a disappointment. Eris - Split weapon systems are embarrassing. Stick with a high damage potential hybrid fit. Sabre - Majority of pilots who spec'd Minmatar want, and expect maneuverability over extra shields. Heretic - These changes are ideal. Flycatcher - These changes are satisfactory.
For all Interdictors speed is the savior to a ship with lame resists and a high signature radius. A signature radius large enough to take damage from medium and larger weaponry. More shields and armor are not what keeps these ships alive. Having the maneuverability to avoid the fire in the first place is their key to survival.
Alternatives? MWD-sig bonus like the AFs? Smaller sig across the board? Overall speed 20% slower than interceptors? Like the good ol days.
Dictors have been my primary ship for years. Not only did the speed nerf years ago coin the phrase "flying coffin" for Interdictors, it hit the Interdictor class harder than most of the others. Which resulted in me for nearly 2 years. I am back, enjoying these changes, hoping that the dictor class will be as thrilling to fly like they used to be.
God bless dictor pilots. |

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
671
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:03:00 -
[295] - Quote
I'm really getting tired of these -re-balance threads: the only decent change I've seen you guys make in the last few expansions have been the warp speed changes and the blackops BS temp-fix.
I know you probably don't give a damn about my opinion, but here's my opinion on what you should have focused on with dictors, with a few explanations here and there:
First, you should recognize that these ships fill an absolutely critical role in 0.0 combat, and that that very role virtually guarantees that dictors will at or near the top of the target lists in any kind of engagement. Given that these ships wear a "kick me" sign on their backs from the outset and that they fill a key role, they need to have a focus on survivability. Without tackle, fights don't work outside the AT. Tackle needs to be able to do it's job. You guys seem to have recognized this with interceptors and assault frigates, opting to give them much larger tanks than their T1 counterparts as well as tiny signature radii and bonuses to sig bloom. Dictors, on the other hand, get LARGER base sigs than destroyers, can't field appreciably larger tanks, and ultimately wouldn't benefit from "larger, small tanks" due to the fact that their sig/speed ratios mean that they will get absolutely reamed by anything that fits weapons and isn't a Phoenix.
tl;dr: Dictors need a massive sig shrink across the board (and by the way, you're being blatantly disingenuous by even suggesting that a 5m sig radius decrease on the Sabre is "significant" in any way) and probably bonuses to prop-mod sig bloom AND larger tanks in order to do their jobs effectively your brave new world of EVE where a majority of ships (especially T1 stuff) has received large buffs to their combat effectiveness.
Next, what in the name of all that is holy is this new-old split-weapons bonus fetish you have going? Remember all those years frustrated people spent complaining about the split weapon bonuses / slot layouts on the Typhoon and the Naglfar? Remember how you held out for years before finally doing away with those situations and admitting they were a terrible idea? WHY ARE YOU BRINGING THEM BACK? The "new" split-bonus philosophy (bonuses to two weapons systems and hardpoint layouts that allow a user to equip a full compliment of either type) are fine, but this 4 turret / 4 launcher crap is just unbelievable. It's still a bad idea: get rid of it.
Finally, "Minmatar" and "least-agile ship in it's class" do not belong in the same ship description. Newsflash: with the chronic lag present in your game it is hard enough for a current nano-Sabre to delay-bubble and snag a decloak on any remotely-quick cloaking ships. The last thing the Sabre needs is an agility nerf, especially one that puts it below every other dictor on offer. If you want to make the Eris ever-so-slightly more maneuverable (but slower) then so be it, but there's no way the two resist-bonused, "tanky" dictors (I still find this notion laughable) should be more agile than the Sabre or Eris.
PS: are you actually increasing fittings on the Eris and Heretic enough to allow them to utilize their "armor tanking slot layout" and "extra missile hardpoint," respectively? I won't know until someone is kind enough to release an EFT mod that allows me to theorycraft these terrible ships (since you guys continue to provide no way of actually contextualizing your stupid patch note-style change announcements), but in the past the Eris' extra low slot over the Heretic was often useless due to having insufficient CPU to utilize it, while the Heretic never had the fitting to actually field a complement of rocket launchers effectively, much less that plus an additional launcher... |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
132
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:07:00 -
[296] - Quote
After reading the thread more closely I gotta chime in on the agility / MW issue. If the MW is the problem, then the MW needs the fix, not the dicter's agility (or mass, whatever).
Agility and speed are kinda important. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
671
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:52:00 -
[297] - Quote
Oh, and while I'm at it: you guys should make the Heretic a laser platform, because that would just be cool. I was talking to a spacebro and he reminded me that we'll now have 3 missile platform destroyers and only one that is specialized for guns. That strikes me as being kind of lame. Also lasers are indisputably awesome. |

Dehval
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:52:00 -
[298] - Quote
Just a somewhat related question.
Is there any particular reason these ships do not have proper T2 resists applied to their hulls? Wouldn't that help alleviate some of the problems? |

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
672
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:11:00 -
[299] - Quote
Dehval wrote:Just a somewhat related question.
Is there any particular reason these ships do not have proper T2 resists applied to their hulls? Wouldn't that help alleviate some of the problems?
The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome).
What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now.
Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs.
On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007. |

Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:41:00 -
[300] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:ERIS - Eris is the next in the new Roden designs. Big bonuses to both missiles and hybrid turrets allow the highest damage of all the dictors if one chooses. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings. The 10mn AB plated fleet fits will be much improved after Rubicon.
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion radius per level (was 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level)
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage) 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 4(-1) turrets, 4 launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 750(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1) (TRIPLE SPECIAL BOLD-ITALIC-UNDERLINE mine.)
Seriously?
Split weapons systems like that are awful, and have always been awful. Anyone wanting to fit an Eris to actually shoot at things - which, surprisingly enough, DOES HAPPEN - will have no option but to fit both guns and missiles. The lack of crossover in skill points between hybrids and missiles would be bad enough in and of itself, but that's not all - small-boat hybrids never have their ranges match up with small-boat missile systems. (Trust me, I flew a Tristan before the revamp that turned it into a drone boat. I know about these things.)
I seem to remember you, yourself, once posting something about how you were giving another ship - I think one of the Minmatar hulls - enough hardpoints of both turret and launcher varieties to let its pilot choose between them, instead of being forced to fit both. You then pointed out that fitting the waythe ship had previously forced pilots to was Not Fun. What makes you think this will be any different?
TL;DR: Fozzie y u do this. Fozzie stahp. |
|

XvXTeacherVxV
Terra Incognita Insidious Empire
38
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 00:03:00 -
[301] - Quote
I've never understood why people get upset during these first iterations. Keep calm, have a cookie. The 4/4 Eris is not long for this world my friends.
In other news,
Sig Radius comparison:
T1 Destroyers range from 56 (thrasher) to 72 (algos). Proposed Interdictors range from 70 (sabre) to 85 (eris) (down from 75-90). They're still more like small cruisers than destroyers. 60 to 75 would be a more reasonable range.
EVE Forums need a button right next to "like" that says "you need to calm your silly self down."Can you see the rapier??-áhttp://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
589
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 00:26:00 -
[302] - Quote
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:I've never understood why people get upset during these first iterations. Keep calm, have a cookie. The 4/4 Eris is not long for this world my friends.
In other news,
Sig Radius comparison:
T1 Destroyers range from 56 (thrasher) to 72 (algos). Proposed Interdictors range from 70 (sabre) to 85 (eris) (down from 75-90). They're still more like small cruisers than destroyers. 60 to 75 would be a more reasonable range.
we get upset because some thigns are OBVIOUS and we cannto beleive ccp can really not notice, liek for example how WRONG is minmatar ship being the LEAST agile!
We want saber to be a minmatar ship, not a damm amarr one! That type of issue shouydl never ever get to the DRAFT, not even thinking about first iteration. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
572
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 00:36:00 -
[303] - Quote
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:I've never understood why people get upset during these first iterations. Keep calm, have a cookie. The 4/4 Eris is not long for this world my friends.
In other news,
Sig Radius comparison:
T1 Destroyers range from 56 (thrasher) to 72 (algos). Proposed Interdictors range from 70 (sabre) to 85 (eris) (down from 75-90). They're still more like small cruisers than destroyers. 60 to 75 would be a more reasonable range.
that's being rather generous .... 50-60 is more reasonable Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

XvXTeacherVxV
Terra Incognita Insidious Empire
38
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 00:44:00 -
[304] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:XvXTeacherVxV wrote:I've never understood why people get upset during these first iterations. Keep calm, have a cookie. The 4/4 Eris is not long for this world my friends.
In other news,
Sig Radius comparison:
T1 Destroyers range from 56 (thrasher) to 72 (algos). Proposed Interdictors range from 70 (sabre) to 85 (eris) (down from 75-90). They're still more like small cruisers than destroyers. 60 to 75 would be a more reasonable range.
that's being rather generous .... 50-60 is more reasonable
I would expect them to be on par with t1s, maybe 5% to 10% larger at the outside, but not actually smaller than t1s. I wouldn't complain if they were though as long as it didn't cross into frigate sizes. EVE Forums need a button right next to "like" that says "you need to calm your silly self down."Can you see the rapier??-áhttp://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |

Xorth Adimus
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 00:55:00 -
[305] - Quote
I am glad all the dictors will be brought somewhere upto were the epic sabre is today.
The main issue with interdictors is survivability in larger fleets where they are often key. Even using perches and a cloak you are lucky to get more then a few runs in before it is game over. This is correct they should be ships that require skill and finesse, this is what makes these ships so much fun, but too often its just a case of knowing the suicidal nature of these ships is set too far to WTFBBQ in some situations regardless of what you do.
-Heretic gets a nice tank bonus... other ships get damage/ projection bonus, sorry I kind of lost the point here. -Eris should be a hybrid bonus ship with great damage and the best agility and a good hull buffer so it has a clear niche. Split weapon serves no purpose like on all other Roden ships. Come up with something better.
The mass reduction is welcome, but the sig is still too high. I would like to see dictors be specialised in what they are supposed to do.. interdiction.. nip in do the job and then get out before large fleet ships start locking them.
To achieve this I'd like to see a significant signature reduction bonus, for me a 3rd bonus that is a damage application/further damage bonus serves no useful purpose for it's role, damage is good for solo work but is a secondary priority.
Other possible tweaks: -Better (if not T2) resists for all dictors (not just the heretic) would be welcome -If instead you want to do something interesting you could give them all cloaking bonuses for cloaked velocity, cloak fitting and/or cloaking scan res reduction bonuses (OFC you should not be able to fit a covert ops cloak, no matter how funny this would be).
|

Jordanna Bauer
Mafia Redux Phobia.
44
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 07:28:00 -
[306] - Quote
Say no to split weapon systems. |

Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 10:06:00 -
[307] - Quote
Minmatar have the best base speed, but as soon you slap a mwd in certain classes, other ships take over. Before, they were not the faster also in certain classes, ships with more low slots could nano them and be faster than the minmatar equivalent (which was fine). Now, they don't even need to nano, mass is so huge that MWD is enough sometimes.
Minmatar ends up not having the agility, or mass, or speed. NONE of the three. Is this the skirmish race? The nerfs that you have been giving to mass/agility are starting to go out of line now. I understand that you want to control it a bit on certain ships, but let others be faster just with an MWD? They don't even need to nano anymore?
Sabre itself have a great slot layout, but making it the least agile of them all? Vargur? That huge extra mass for +5m/sec base speed? Vexor, much faster than a Rupture with the mwd on, same slot layout? And there are more examples.
Speed wise, Stabber and Vagabond were what? cookies? I know speed is important, give the other races cookies also, just don't **** up with 90% of Minmatar ships agility/mass because of it.
|

pyronatic
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 10:38:00 -
[308] - Quote
Why is the Gallente Interdictor getting missile's? |

Bill Saisima
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 11:59:00 -
[309] - Quote
I hate the agility nerfs, too... it was an important reason for flying minmatar for certain ship classes and fleet compositions.
Edit: and 'missiles for everyone' seems kind of lame. |

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:27:00 -
[310] - Quote
Eris needs more CPU - it can't fit a meta 4 mwd, meta 4 scram, interdiction sphere launcher, and full rack of rocket launchers + guns (you have to downgrade to Light Ion Blasters). Even then, you have... 3.5 CPU to fill 2 rig slots and 4 low slows. |
|

Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
572
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:27:00 -
[311] - Quote
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:Harvey James wrote:XvXTeacherVxV wrote:I've never understood why people get upset during these first iterations. Keep calm, have a cookie. The 4/4 Eris is not long for this world my friends.
In other news,
Sig Radius comparison:
T1 Destroyers range from 56 (thrasher) to 72 (algos). Proposed Interdictors range from 70 (sabre) to 85 (eris) (down from 75-90). They're still more like small cruisers than destroyers. 60 to 75 would be a more reasonable range.
that's being rather generous .... 50-60 is more reasonable I would expect them to be on par with t1s, maybe 5% to 10% larger at the outside, but not actually smaller than t1s. I wouldn't complain if they were though as long as it didn't cross into frigate sizes.
well these are akin to interceptors for dessies so these should be quicker more agile , lower sig and have a big mwd bonus same as inties have really and need a much better slot layout. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:28:00 -
[312] - Quote
Yea the Eris needs a rework.
Maybe move it off roden... Or rebalance it completely. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|

SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:39:00 -
[313] - Quote
xttz wrote:The best way to address this (although probably too late now) is in a similar way to how old command ships worked:
1) Give the old interdictors stats geared toward small-scale pvp / gatecamping, much like the proposals in the OP 2) Use the newer destroyer models to make 'fleet interdictors' with bonuses to speed / agility / EHP.
I fully agree.
Also take in to account double bubbling needs perhaps the interdictor bonus could be modified on the module directly.
|

Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
80
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:06:00 -
[314] - Quote
CCP don't need to move the eris off roden, it could be a cool ship. The problem is we already got 2 missile boats in this line, which makes it a little uncreative to have 3 missile boats. I'd say either chance the eris to another manufacturer or change the heretic from khanid to a laser based manufacturer. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
546
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:41:00 -
[315] - Quote
Normally I would say something like "it's ok to have split weapon system done right". But in this case I kind of don't see a point. These ships are often weaker than T1 dessies in head to head combat, yet it seems like you guys are trying to make them work for something without probe launchers fitted (otherwise you can't even milk that paper DPS out of Eris).
I think it isn't gonna fly well this time. On the other hand, this layout is what may keep a traditional niche role of Eris, being a cheaper coffin, intact. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
110
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:47:00 -
[316] - Quote
Randy Wray wrote:CCP don't need to move the eris off roden, it could be a cool ship. The problem is we already got 2 missile boats in this line, which makes it a little uncreative to have 3 missile boats. I'd say either chance the eris to another manufacturer or change the heretic from khanid to a laser based manufacturer. Leave my sexy Khanid ships alone! |

Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
84
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:57:00 -
[317] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Normally I would say something like "it's ok to have split weapon system done right". But in this case I kind of don't see a point. These ships are often weaker than T1 dessies in head to head combat, yet it seems like you guys are trying to make them work for something without probe launchers fitted (otherwise you can't even milk that paper DPS out of Eris).
I think it isn't gonna fly well this time. On the other hand, this layout is what may keep a traditional niche role of Eris, being a cheaper coffin, intact. So basically you leave one ship really bad so that it will be cheaper? I don't really like that idea. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |

Harreeb Alls
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 03:16:00 -
[318] - Quote
I love the new heretic. nice to have something amarr to use missile skills for after vengence. |

Mr Doctor
Los Polos Hermanos. Happy Cartel
75
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 06:03:00 -
[319] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Randy Wray wrote:CCP don't need to move the eris off roden, it could be a cool ship. The problem is we already got 2 missile boats in this line, which makes it a little uncreative to have 3 missile boats. I'd say either chance the eris to another manufacturer or change the heretic from khanid to a laser based manufacturer. Leave my sexy Khanid ships alone! Seconded!
MOAR KHANID! |

Meriks Friggson
Moira. Villore Accords
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 06:19:00 -
[320] - Quote
I don't know what to say, thanks (ie sarcasm) for the saber changes. I'll put them with my Rifter hulls. |
|

Alain Badiou
B4D W0LF
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 07:34:00 -
[321] - Quote
I haven't read all 16+ pages and like what I see except...
WTH is with the split weapon Eris?! Can I please have a gun boat please? Who thought that was a good idea?  |

Alain Badiou
B4D W0LF
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 07:36:00 -
[322] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Not sure about the Eris to be honest. Sure, it has the option to get the highest DPS, but I really don't like the forced split between weapons. Why does Minmatar T1 get 7 highs with 6 guns and 6 missiles and double bonus to both, and a T2 Gallente ship gets 8 highs with 4/4, forcing a split in MagStab/BallisticControl, the very thing that was the reason for the Minmatar type split bonuses/fittings?
Maybe it works on a ship of this size, but I fear for the Roden line if this is the new standard. Either the Enyo will become a 4 highslot 2 missile 2 guns or it will have to swap manufacturer.
Oh god, do not mess with my Enyo. |

Alain Badiou
B4D W0LF
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 08:01:00 -
[323] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Dehval wrote:Just a somewhat related question.
Is there any particular reason these ships do not have proper T2 resists applied to their hulls? Wouldn't that help alleviate some of the problems? The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome). What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now. Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs. On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007. Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres... I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
^^This needs to be seen by CCP more than once. Thanks for the excellent write up.
|

Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
84
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 08:18:00 -
[324] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote: The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome).
What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now.
Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs.
On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007.
Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres...
I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
You got it all right, although I'd rather see interdictors be immune just to their own bubbles rather than full bubble immunity. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
2167
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:36:00 -
[325] - Quote
Looking at this Eris: Since when were split weapons systems not a terrible idea?
(Clue: Never.)
EDIT:
Ganthrithor wrote: The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome).
What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now.
Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs.
On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007.
Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres...
I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
Hear, hear. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |

Mind Rape
Relentless Influence
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:06:00 -
[326] - Quote
CCP, making all ships the same, one class at a time. ~sandbox~ |

Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
630
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:30:00 -
[327] - Quote
Capt ****** wrote:And yet another ...
Buff everything, nerf Minmatar.
Holy crap - its like the end of days for minmatar.
Missile boats ahoy - with no range.
Autocannon nerformama - TEs down the pan.
Worst Caps by a staggering margin.
Command ship loveliness perforated with shotgun.
Lowest DPS marauder FTL (for the loss).
QFT There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly |

FistyMcBumBasher
Calamitous-Intent
58
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 14:27:00 -
[328] - Quote
Hi Fozzie,
The idea with tech II ships is that they are supposed to be more specialized, but the only thing that is special about these ships is their ability to drop bubbles and warp speeds. I know that the warp speed changes are going to have a large effect on the ability of these ships to catch prey, but I fail to see how these changes are going to help with their survivability. Do you want to keep them as flying coffins where the only viable fleet fits are double/triple bubble cloak that are completely gimped in every other way?
Don't get me wrong, balancing all interdictors is a great idea and it is about time that eris becomes semi-viable. But there is so much more that could be done with this class of ships. Why not buff interdiction launchers speed or fitting but then limit them to 1 per ship? Why not give them a MWD sig decrease to increase survivability? What about bubbles to prevent MJD's? Why not a focused point similar to Hictors so that supers can be more readily tackled in lowsec? Bubbles that limit ewar effects? I am not saying all of these ideas would work, but so far not much has changed with this ship
Why not give the Eris enough CPU to fit a 400mm plate, interdiction launcher, and fill the highs and lows with damage/tank mods? If you are going to force the thing to armor tank and be split weapons, pldon't be stingy with the CPU.
Thanks for your time, and I look forward to the second draft of these changes. -Fisty
|

Alvin Exe
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 14:38:00 -
[329] - Quote
Gallente: Missile. Meh.
And this:
Ganthrithor wrote: The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome).
What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now.
Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs.
On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007.
Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres...
I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
]
|

GeeShizzle MacCloud
369
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:00:00 -
[330] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Dehval wrote:Just a somewhat related question.
Is there any particular reason these ships do not have proper T2 resists applied to their hulls? Wouldn't that help alleviate some of the problems? The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome). What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now. Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs. On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007. Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres... I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
QFT (quoted for truth - for the uninitiated) |
|

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
803
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:30:00 -
[331] - Quote
For Goddess sake, do you all absolutely have to quote the entire wall when adding only a single line or character? Yes it is a good read, but contains nothing that has not already been stated numerous times throughout the thread and years .. kudos to Ganthrithor for gathering most of it up in a rational and legible post though.
Lets get down to it and go through the motions in proper fashion, I'll start with two of the biggest points: 1. What is the purpose of Interdictors and where do/should they fit into current and possible future meta? My take - Mobile bubbling where statics have yet to go up or not wanted/needed. Act as hard counters to everything sub-cruiser. AoE battle field controllers. 2. What hindrances do they face in performing above mentioned duties? My take - Too slow. Too big. Too weak (tank and dps both) and flat out uninspired bordering on obsolete.
Ideas for "solutions" (rather random, sorry ): - Add +50% (or similarly insane amount) unstacked resists for 30s immediately after dropping a probe. - More speed. Lower signature. Better damage+application and more consistent tanking. - Add Void (continuous drain) and Lockbreaker (as if inside POS bubble) effect probes to be used by Interdictors. Design them around fitting twin launchers to facilitate the use of available probes. - Let them get double link bonuses (for when they come on-grid). - Give them a BO'esque cloaked movement bonus albeit even larger.
Bottom line: It is insanity to consider each ship on its own, doubly so with regard to ships meant to collaborate with others. 'Dictors are fleet/gang tools so primary concern should be to make them as indispensable and powerful in that theatre as logistics/eWar. |

Meyr
SiN Corp
61
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:35:00 -
[332] - Quote
Just because this needs to be repeated often enough that someone takes notice of it...
Ganthrithor wrote:Dehval wrote:Just a somewhat related question.
Is there any particular reason these ships do not have proper T2 resists applied to their hulls? Wouldn't that help alleviate some of the problems? The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome). What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now. Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs. On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007. Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres... I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
|

LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 15:03:00 -
[333] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Dehval wrote:Just a somewhat related question.
Is there any particular reason these ships do not have proper T2 resists applied to their hulls? Wouldn't that help alleviate some of the problems? The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome). What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now. Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs. On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007. Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres... I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
Pains me to admit this, but this is guy is spot on ^ CCP balance devs, please read it and take heed. |

Kadassh
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 17:18:00 -
[334] - Quote
These ships don't have T2 resists. Can we please get T2 resists on these ships? That would really make these ships more survivable.
Also, MORE CPU. Eris cant even fit a double bubble cloak setup with any sort of tank. Its awful. |

Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
157
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 22:38:00 -
[335] - Quote
T2 resists, much smaller sig, significantly more hitpoints. I'd take any and all of them. More fitting too, I don't see why making them tougher is a bad thing? Even if they had double the ehp they'd still be properly delicate and easy to kill quickly when you need to. |

S1euth
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 03:34:00 -
[336] - Quote
This balance pass doesn't appear to change anything. The Sabre is still an amazing Dictor because of it's agility and speed enabling it to decloak on gates and tackle. It is also able to fit a double bubble "fleet fitting" and 5 guns.
The Flycatcher got new damage bonuses and cant use any of them with a "double bubble" fleet fit because of the lack of fitting room. It needs another low slot to fit a Co-Processor or +63 CPU in order to be capable of 60% of the comparable DPS of the Sabre.
This rebalance, doesn't seem to rebalance. I can't think of any fleet PVP situation where I'd choose a Flycatcher instead of a Sabre with this current design. |

Volstruis
Do Not Ride The Bomb
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 09:31:00 -
[337] - Quote
Fozzie did you do this balance pass one random morning on the toilet because you had nothing better to do?
Doesn't look or feel to me like any real thought or testing has gone into this iteration. Did you even consider things like, adapting fittings based on restricting the ships to only 1 bubble launcher, or, why do they seem to be so fragile and prone to exploding?
CCP, more effort testing and thought required please. On this class and several others. |

xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
238
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 11:00:00 -
[338] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Dehval wrote:Just a somewhat related question.
Is there any particular reason these ships do not have proper T2 resists applied to their hulls? Wouldn't that help alleviate some of the problems? The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome). What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now. Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs. On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007. Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres... I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
Indeedy
|

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 11:52:00 -
[339] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:
The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome).
What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now.
Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs.
On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007.
Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres...
I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
^^
|

Morniee
Barbs Hammer Insane Asylum
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 16:08:00 -
[340] - Quote
Here is my 2 cents
1 Give dictors Cov ops cloak 2 Or give dictors no penalty moving while cloaked. |
|

Mr Doctor
Los Polos Hermanos. Happy Cartel
75
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 16:48:00 -
[341] - Quote
Covops cloak is daft. Far too powerful.
Movement while cloaked (not to blops level where its faster cloaked), reduction in sensor recalibration penalty and cloak reactivation wouldnt be terrible. But I'm thinking a maximum of 0% speed nerf and 40% reduction in the other two at most.
I dont think the Sabre or Heretic are in a bad place right now, I've not had a chance to play with the other two. People want more damage and tank but what they really want is an assfrig with a bubble.... which would obsolete assfrigs. Dictors are high risk high reward and shouldnt be much if any better than current because their bubble is SUCH a good and powerful tool. Maybe slightly smaller sig and a small bonus to standard cloaks but not much more. |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
214
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 17:46:00 -
[342] - Quote
Morniee wrote:Here is my 2 cents
1 Give dictors Cov ops cloak 2 Or give dictors no penalty moving while cloaked.
Both bad ideas. |

S1euth
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 18:19:00 -
[343] - Quote
These ships should be balanced around their core function and value they provide; the ability to drop warp disruption bubbles.
If CCP wants to keep the Sabre as king decloaker with its agility, speed and able to fit double bubble and guns, then Give another dictor a bonus to bubble diameter per level Give another dictor the ability to launch bubbles more quickly per level Give another dictor the ability to launch a bubble like a bomb, with travel time and delayed deployment Give another dictor the ability to make its bubbles last longer per level Etc...
There are a ton of ways for CCP to "balance" the dictors and further specialize them without crowding out Assault frigates or their destroyer counterparts. |

Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
47
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:58:00 -
[344] - Quote
David Kir wrote:And there we go, the Minmatar ships has the worst agility of the lot. Yup, makes sense.
Well it's not as if they traditionally as a faction rely on great mobility and speed tanking... |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
803
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:39:00 -
[345] - Quote
Witchking Angmar wrote:David Kir wrote:And there we go, the Minmatar ships has the worst agility of the lot. Yup, makes sense.
Well it's not as if they traditionally as a faction rely on great mobility and speed tanking... That school of reasoning went bye-bye with tiericide, I should know I tried my damnedest to use it when Amarr suddenly got a Vagabond'esque kiting cruiser in the Nomen .. or when drones+missiles suddenly started popping up in the weirdest places.
All races will have all options available to them in as many size categories as feasible. That is seemingly CCP's interpretation of "tiericide" .. racial flavour/bonuses are a distant tertiary consideration, at least until we can knock some sense into the volcano huggers  |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
589
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 07:40:00 -
[346] - Quote
That failure to keep racial identities has been expressed and pointed at with concertn on every thread of the tiercide.
IT represents the grewatest failure of this team on their game balance work. Homogenization means you are ot capable of prober balance and is removeing interestign stuff. ITs a failure..
and the game continues to loose more and more content, flavor... to gain.. NOTHING in return. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Alain Badiou
B4D W0LF
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 08:35:00 -
[347] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:Capt ****** wrote:And yet another ...
Buff everything, nerf Minmatar.
Holy crap - its like the end of days for minmatar.
Missile boats ahoy - with no range.
Autocannon nerformama - TEs down the pan.
Worst Caps by a staggering margin.
Command ship loveliness perforated with shotgun.
Lowest DPS marauder FTL (for the loss).
QFT
Completely off topic, but disagree with most of that. Missiles and Minmatar are a good fit (speed with no tracking). TE's were ridiculously OP with respect to autocannons. Also Minnie Marauder is best marauder. Period.
Caps are bad, true. |

Alain Badiou
B4D W0LF
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 08:40:00 -
[348] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:For Goddess sake, do you all absolutely have to quote the entire wall when adding only a single line or character? Yes it is a good read, but contains nothing that has not already been stated numerous times throughout the thread and years .. kudos to Ganthrithor for gathering most of it up in a rational and legible post though. Lets get down to it and go through the motions in proper fashion, I'll start with two of the biggest points: 1. What is the purpose of Interdictors and where do/should they fit into current and possible future meta? My take - Mobile bubbling where statics have yet to go up or not wanted/needed. Act as hard counters to everything sub-cruiser. AoE battle field controllers. 2. What hindrances do they face in performing above mentioned duties? My take - Too slow. Too big. Too weak (tank and dps both) and flat out uninspired bordering on obsolete. Ideas for "solutions" (rather random, sorry  ): - Add +50% (or similarly insane amount) unstacked resists for 30s immediately after dropping a probe. - More speed. Lower signature. Better damage+application and more consistent tanking. - Add Void (continuous drain) and Lockbreaker (as if inside POS bubble) effect probes to be used by Interdictors. Design them around fitting twin launchers to facilitate the use of available probes. - Let them get double link bonuses (for when they come on-grid). - Give them a BO'esque cloaked movement bonus albeit even larger. Bottom line: It is insanity to consider each ship on its own, doubly so with regard to ships meant to collaborate with others. 'Dictors are fleet/gang tools so primary concern should be to make them as indispensable and powerful in that theatre as logistics/eWar.
Or, you could have just quoted Ganthrithor which states many of your points only far more lucidly. :)
|

Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
93
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 08:42:00 -
[349] - Quote
Alain Badiou wrote:
Or, you could have just quoted Ganthrithor which states many of your points only far more lucidly. :)
If fozzie doesn't listen to ganthrithor at this point it's gawn be jita riot all over again. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
803
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 08:59:00 -
[350] - Quote
Alain Badiou wrote:Or, you could have just quoted Ganthrithor which states many of your points only far more lucidly. :)
Why on Earth would I quote something that does not add anything to the thread/discussion at large, make no sense. The post was merely a 'the story so far' type of thing only it excluded all suggestions made thus far that at least tried to help CCP with a few extra neurons. Stamping ones feet and holding ones breath can only get one so far 
Besides, the incessant full quotes with a single word or single line are (subject to interpretation) against the forum rules and I am an obedient sheep to authority!
|
|

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
589
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 10:56:00 -
[351] - Quote
Just in the case you did not got the message CCP tiercide team.
NO ONE LIKED! And not many are liking the homogenization and destruciton of racial identities!!! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
30
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 12:04:00 -
[352] - Quote
So Fozzie any updates? |

Taoist Dragon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
637
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 22:36:00 -
[353] - Quote
Hmmm another gallboat getting split weapon bonus'
Wasn't one of the big things about Teiricide was removing them from a lot of the minnie ships? So now gall gonna become the new minnie?
And I agree with al ot of the above post about racial flavour being lost. Sure give each race the ability to have fast agile stuff, but come on minnie should have the fastest, most agile stuffs. Amarr/caldari the toughest (armour/shield resists), gall the most dps.
a lot of the minnie ships are getting close to the fattest (mass) this really messes with prop mods etc....seriously?! there is nothing to them being pretty much scaffold with weapons/engines attached.
I don't want 'winmatar' back but at least give them their racial flavour back! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |

Damian Gene
Bloodtear Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 05:40:00 -
[354] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:
The problem isn't primarily one of tank size or resists: it's dictors' horrible combination of a cruiser-sized sig and cruiser-sized top speeds with frigate tanks. It's really the speed and sigs that need tweaking more than EHP (although a decent-sized EHP increase to keep pace with the tank-creep that's been pervasive among small ships since the tiericide started would also be welcome).
What they'd do if they actually wanted to make dictors into viable combat hulls rather than bubble-and-run mobiles would be to increase EHP by ~20-25% (via raw HP or resists-- I don't think it would matter that much, although at least with resists you could theoretically keep dictors up using remote reps for small gang fights), increase the top speeds across the board such that nano-fit dictors can manage 3-3.5km/s while MWDing, and shrink their base sig radii down to 45-50 instead of the absurd ~75 they're sitting at right now.
Essentially, dictors should really resemble frigates more than they do cruisers: small tanks, high mobility (which helps them mitigate damage AND do their job of grabbing initial tackles / decloaks better) and small sigs.
On a somewhat-related note, I find it hilarious that interceptors-- ships that aren't forced to find themselves inside bubbles constantly and which are the best-equipped ships in the game in terms of their ability to rapidly burn out of bubbles they do find themselves in-- are getting bubble immunity, while dictors-- relatively slow, tankless ships that are forced to drop themselves in the middle of a 20km bubble just to do their jobs-- are stuck in their own bubbles. If anything it should be dictors that are bubble immune (allowing them to not kill themselves by tackling and allowing them to bypass "defensive" bubbles and use their own bubbles on hostile fleets to, you know, do their jobs. But what do I know, I've just been doing small-gang PvP in nullsec since 2007.
Basically these changes do next to nothing to address the fact that the combat abilities of interdictors have become absolutely farcical. Between the speed nerf that destroyed their ability to speed tank damage and the Tiericide-induced power creep that has significantly buffed what seems like every other ship class in the game, the only things that an interdictor can actually fight these days are stealth bombers (assuming they don't have a buddy in another bomber waiting to decloak and bomb you, that is), some scanning frigates (beware ye battle-Helios, however), and some industrial ships. Yeah: some industrial ships: some of those mining barges with 40k ehp and the ability to field drones will probably wreck you. Combat frigates, T1 destroyers, cruisers, some interceptors, all assault frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships will all completely wreck you if you hang around decloaked long enough to get locked. Our game-designer buddies are acting like they're doing us some kind of big favor by "bringing all other dictors up to the level of the Sabre." Great, except that there's almost nothing that the existing inferior dictors can't fight that a Sabre can. The Sabre is mostly a bubble-and-run machine too, unless you really like losing Sabres...
I'm honestly incredibly disappointed by these changes: while I haven't been enthusiastic about most of the changes of the Tiericide Age, most of them have been things I could work with or around. With interdictors CCP are passing up their best (probably only) opportunity to fix a class that has been seriously underwhelming for years now, and that has only been further emasculated by the tiericide buffs to other small ships. Instead of doing anything to actually make dictors viable and fun ships, CCP are playing it safe by calling the Sabre "good enough" and balancing all the other dictors against it. This is really, obviously not going to do anything to improve the state of dictor-piloting, since anyone with a clue who uses their dictor outside intentionally-suicidal fleet tackling runs has already trained for a Sabre anyway. The only reason people continue to fly Sabres is that dictors are functionally indispensable, and the Sabre is the least-bad of the bunch. That doesn't mean the Sabre (or your new lineup of dictors balanced around it) will be in a good place when your changes go through, and you know it. Shame on you, CCP. I expected more from a team of designers who allegedly spent years playing this game.
The players give feedback, but we've seen less and less feedback from the devs! I miss scrolling down and seeing the blue tags. Can you please give us some more incite to what your thinking? What are your goals? You guys also play, so how will this change the ship class to what you'd like to fly? |

Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1705
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 08:14:00 -
[355] - Quote
only the heretic gets a tanking bonus? why don't any of the other 3 get that? |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
592
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 09:25:00 -
[356] - Quote
Yummy Chocolate wrote:only the heretic gets a tanking bonus? why don't any of the other 3 get that?
bacause now that the heretic is FASTER and more agile than the saber.. it also shoud get the tank bonus so the saber pilots may be 100% doubt free when they reprocess their ships. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
290
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 16:17:00 -
[357] - Quote
Randy Wray wrote:Alain Badiou wrote:
Or, you could have just quoted Ganthrithor which states many of your points only far more lucidly. :)
If fozzie doesn't listen to ganthrithor at this point it's gawn be jita riot all over again.
Seconded.
Here is his post:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3750420#post3750420
I took one look at the proposed changes and laughed. I will not bothering to train these ships anytime soon. Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
130
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 16:36:00 -
[358] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming. I see Fozzie posted on the Eve Vegas thread today, hopefully he'll come by and give us something after a week? |
|

CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7855

|
Posted - 2013.10.23 18:06:00 -
[359] - Quote
I'm back from Vegas and caught up on the thread. I've been discussing some version 2 stuff with Rise and Ytterbium today.
I expect version two of these changes will go to the CSM within the next day or so then on to you guys asap. Thanks for the feedback so far.
If you decide to shoot the Jita monument in the meantime remember to take a jacket so you don't catch a cold. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|

Archare
Sleepless Escorts
100
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 18:56:00 -
[360] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:If you decide to shoot the Jita monument in the meantime remember to take a jacket so you don't catch a cold.
You need to make that corpse gun so I can shoot my naked body at the monument. |
|

Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
691
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 19:06:00 -
[361] - Quote
Archare wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:If you decide to shoot the Jita monument in the meantime remember to take a jacket so you don't catch a cold. You need to make that corpse gun so I can shoot my naked body at the monument. Only naked until Rubicon...unfortunately, our pilots are not wearing their birthday suits any longer. It's too bad, really, as it really made it feel like the capsuleer commits to bonding with the pod (and ship) only, leaving all (Earthly) possessions behind. Yes, even their underpants! Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
733
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 19:13:00 -
[362] - Quote
Edward Pierce wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming. I see Fozzie posted on the Eve Vegas thread today, hopefully he'll come by and give us something after a week?
Bubble-immune anything is OP: "immunity to non-targeted interdiction" should be scrapped as a ship attribute across the board.
CCP Fozzie wrote:I'm back from Vegas and caught up on the thread. I've been discussing some version 2 stuff with Rise and Ytterbium today.
I expect version two of these changes will go to the CSM within the next day or so then on to you guys asap. Thanks for the feedback so far.
If you decide to shoot the Jita monument in the meantime remember to take a jacket so you don't catch a cold.
Here's to hoping you guys can get some meaningful improvements approved. My Sabre is sad that it can hardly fight anything and has to spend most of its time running away from stuff.
Hope Vegas was fun, and that you managed to soak up some of that sunlight for the weeks ahead! |

Aust Silverfrond
Black Slag Authenticated You Failed the Mumble Test
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:02:00 -
[363] - Quote
seriously, the new gallente split weapons is just dumb, please reconsider this process
Also, might not be the place for this, but can we consider moving khanid ships from missiles to drones, which is what amarrs second weapons system actual is? it seems really silly that for all t1 amarr ships you have lasers and drones, then t2 comes along and suddenly oh, missiles... ok....
It was ok when the t1 ships had a few missile ships (bring back my missile inquisitor d****t!!!! but now youve refocused several ships to be drone boats
tl:dr laser heretic, no split eris, also bubble immune sounds good |

Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:37:00 -
[364] - Quote
Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus? -Bl+¦d
Transcendent Sedition is recruiting! Join "TSED Recruitment" chat ingame to talk to us if you are interested in Wormhole life! |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2529
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:50:00 -
[365] - Quote
Just another reminder that "Roden = Split Weapons" is a horrible theme which should be purged at the earliest opportunity. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
421
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 23:31:00 -
[366] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Just another reminder that "Roden = Split Weapons" is a horrible theme which should be purged at the earliest opportunity.
reminder that you're stupid, they just need to do it better |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
133
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 00:34:00 -
[367] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Just another reminder that "Roden = Split Weapons" is a horrible theme which should be purged at the earliest opportunity.
And that the Heretic looks to be a superior missile platform to the Flycatcher (8.75 effective launchers with selectable damage types, against 9 effective launchers in kinetic flavour only).
Fix these two things and the balance between the classes is much improved. You then have the wider issue that the dictor hull is little more than a one-use suicide bubbler, which needs some more radical alterations.
Kinetic flavor is my favorite! Can't wait for the sprinkles.
...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 09:46:00 -
[368] - Quote
Damian Gene wrote:
The players give feedback, but we've seen less and less feedback from the devs! I miss scrolling down and seeing the blue tags. Can you please give us some more incite to what your thinking? What are your goals? You guys also play, so how will this change the ship class to what you'd like to fly?
Fozzie is likely scrambling to come up with a version 2 of this thread like was done with the industrial rebalance. Which was very, very good. You hear that Fozzie? WE STILL BELIEVE IN YOU!!
http://slackiance.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/lazybelieve.jpg |

Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 09:49:00 -
[369] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus?
What would you think about them scrapping the Eris as a gunboat, and turning it into a T2 version of the Algos produced by CreoDron?
|

Quontor Zarrkos
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 12:31:00 -
[370] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus?
This, very much this. We don't need special flavor on these things like split weapons. Just make them improved versions of the t1 destroyers with the ability to deploy bubbles. And make them able to fight stuff instead of dying to well-fit assault frigates, their primary role should still be support against small tackle from the enemy. If the sabre works and is your role model, why don't you make a hybrid, laser and missile version of it? |
|

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
598
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 12:41:00 -
[371] - Quote
Quontor Zarrkos wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus? This, very much this. We don't need special flavor on these things like split weapons. Just make them improved versions of the t1 destroyers with the ability to deploy bubbles. And make them able to fight stuff instead of dying to well-fit assault frigates, their primary role should still be support against small tackle from the enemy. If the sabre works and is your role model, why don't you make a hybrid, laser and missile version of it?
Well a well fit AF shoudl be able to kill an interdictor if it can catch it. But the interdictor should not die to interceptors. OTherwise the AF would be used for what? They cannot catch the interceptors or T1 frigates that are the other things that can be killed by them (not counting stupid cruisers that forget to fit the neut) "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Meyr
SiN Corp
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:20:00 -
[372] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus? What would you think about them scrapping the Eris as a gunboat, and turning it into a T2 version of the Algos produced by CreoDron?
QFT! Both above options make perfect sense.
Fozzie - get rid of the split weapon bonus on the Eris, unless you're willing to make ALL of the high slots turrets or launchers.
This **** design you've given us here just shows you're limiting your design philosophy by what you see SOME people doing ("10MN plated fleet fits") as opposed to keeping with your long-standing policy of getting rid of split weapon systems.
You want more Gallente missiles, just like you've done with Amarr? Fine, we'll deal with it. Just don't do it like this. The Eris already has the worst reputation as a PVP Interdictor, and your changes, even with you giving it the highest 'Glass Cannon' DPS ON PAPER, do absolutely nothing to make it able to survive a confrontation with anything tougher than a 1-v-1 with SOME of the T1 frigates, and almost NONE of the T2's.
ALL of the Interdictors need to be balanced to where they can HUNT Interceptors with a reasonable chance of winning 1-v-1, but will probably NOT outlast a fight, 1-v-1, with an Assault Frigate, in addition to their role as bubble droppers. |

Vanilla Vila
labour anal
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 18:03:00 -
[373] - Quote
Interdictor should not be immune to bubble but should deploy them like bombers, either forward or backward, with a small delay.
Now they are underpowered HIC. Why fly a dictor when HIC is better (It can take a few hits anyway where the dictors are a suicide boat).
With a forward bubble, they aren't trapped in, it becomes a matter of skill to put the bubble correctly and then trying to warp off before you reach the edge, etc.
|

Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 18:15:00 -
[374] - Quote
Vanilla Vila wrote:Interdictor should not be immune to bubble but should deploy them like bombers, either forward or backward, with a small delay.
Now they are underpowered HIC. Why fly a dictor when HIC is better (It can take a few hits anyway where the dictors are a suicide boat).
With a forward bubble, they aren't trapped in, it becomes a matter of skill to put the bubble correctly and then trying to warp off before you reach the edge, etc.
It would also go hand in hand with the class of bomb launcher, etc.
To be fair, dictors can do a lot of things that hictors cannot. Bubble a gate, jump through, bubble the other side. Bubble 100km away from a gate to slow down a pursuing opponent fleet (gtfo and cloak). The ability to drop a bubble and move is a significant distinction.
My favorite idea from this thread is to use the new destroyer hulls (Algos, Corax, Talwar, I forget the Amarr one) as "fleet dictors" with bonuses to agility and survivability, but low dps and "skirmish dictors" with solid dps and perhaps slightly more ehp / sig radius than their T1 counterparts.
|

xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
241
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:51:00 -
[375] - Quote
Vanilla Vila wrote:Interdictor should not be immune to bubble but should deploy them like bombers, either forward or backward, with a small delay. ...
With a forward bubble, they aren't trapped in...
You could achieve a similar effect with less coding work by just introducing the Small Micro Jump Drive. Copy the existing module and just tweak some stats (maybe it only shunts the ship forward 50km a time, but spools up much quicker). Dictors could hit and run very effectively like that, and be far less suicidal.
Then just make the Interdictors skill affect the MJD cooldown. |

Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
47
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 20:13:00 -
[376] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus? What would you think about them scrapping the Eris as a gunboat, and turning it into a T2 version of the Algos produced by CreoDron?
Defintely plausable.. a drone boat means that it does not require guns to deal damage, freeing up fitting for easier Double Bubble fits. So yes.. a drone Eris I could defintely get behind. -Bl+¦d
Transcendent Sedition is recruiting! Join "TSED Recruitment" chat ingame to talk to us if you are interested in Wormhole life! |

Kasife Vynneve
Nourwolf Corporation Fortis Et Certus
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 23:34:00 -
[377] - Quote
With the Tech 2 specialized tilt shouldn't these be less focused on doing damage and more on the movement control aspect. Leave dealing more damage to a second line of T2 Destroyer's or as mentioned in another thread make the other hull a minor command ship with damage potential. Interdictor's should have a role in the low sec enviroment Much in the same way that a Stealth bomber can still be effective even with out its bomb in low sec |

Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
673
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 01:14:00 -
[378] - Quote
The number of people here crying about split weapon systems is hilarious. Yes, lets hate on the Eris because it'll track well and despite being down mids for tackle, will slap frigs around just fine with the new rocket bonuses. It's far and away the highest damage output. Plus If you don't like rockets, the ship still has the 2nd highest output after the Sabre. Not to mention, the application bonuses are at the destroyer level, so you will get them by default.
The Flycatcher has always been good, and a bit of an underdog. Now it's better, and for anything but a bubble ****, the FC outperforms the Heretic.
The Heretic should not have lost its explosion velocity bonus. IMO, if tanking is the flavor of it, drop the range bonus and give it the explosion velocity bonus back.
The Sabre is a Sabre.
A VOTE FOR SPLIT WEAPONS IS A VOTE FOR A DIVERSITY! LONG LIVE SPLIT WEAPONS -áwww.promsrage.com |

LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
51
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:30:00 -
[379] - Quote
These are T2 ships, so they are supposed to be specialized, right? So why not make them specially good at tackling and surviving while doing that (speed, agility, low sig, t2 resists and what not). If you are worried about turning them to wtfbbqpwn machines that screw up balance of other ships, then remove some turrets/launchers for all I care. Make them good at their job, which is tackling fleets, offensive ability is distant second priority. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2536
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:53:00 -
[380] - Quote
LakeEnd wrote:These are T2 ships, so they are supposed to be specialized, right? So why not make them specially good at tackling and surviving while doing that (speed, agility, low sig, t2 resists and what not). If you are worried about turning them to wtfbbqpwn machines that screw up balance of other ships, then remove some turrets/launchers for all I care. Make them good at their job, which is tackling fleets, offensive ability is distant second priority. The 'T2 are more specialised' concept has largely gone out of the window at this point. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
|

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
44
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 09:26:00 -
[381] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:LakeEnd wrote:These are T2 ships, so they are supposed to be specialized, right? So why not make them specially good at tackling and surviving while doing that (speed, agility, low sig, t2 resists and what not). If you are worried about turning them to wtfbbqpwn machines that screw up balance of other ships, then remove some turrets/launchers for all I care. Make them good at their job, which is tackling fleets, offensive ability is distant second priority. The 'T2 are more specialised' concept has largely gone out of the window at this point.
hmm, true, but interdictors/hictors are "THE most specialized t2 ships in game, so that should still count for something, i hope  |

Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
707
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 14:04:00 -
[382] - Quote
You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.
All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |

Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
359
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 07:18:00 -
[383] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.
All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit.
Agreed, if they want to Frankenstein they can. But otherwise they can go with a straight flush if they choose to as well. |

Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 18:27:00 -
[384] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.
All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit.
Since they're not likely to change it into a drone boat, +1 to this. They should either do the same thing that they did with the scythe fleet issue and give strong bonuses for both while lacking a full round of slots (5/5 for guns & missiles), or go with 6/6. Speaking of the former, I'm still confused why the Navy Osprey got stuck with what it did despite having the same damage bonus as the scythe fleet issue, only kinetic. But that's a problem for another thread.
a 6/6 fitting for guns & missiles would be acceptable as long as it came with appropriate bonuses. The 7th hardpoint on the heretic is weird and unnecessary, and I think they should just drop a highslot for a low on that one and the flycatcher if they want to improve fitting. They'd have to use full t2 resists on them all, but give the flycatcher and heretic an extra low from a high. That and the heretic and flycatcher getting respective resist bonuses would be perfect, turning them into the 'combat' interdictors and the eris and sabre the 'attack' variants.
This would balance them all out appropriately, and provide proper differentiation and 'flavor' to them all. Although, I would still like to see a t2 CreoDron algos in place of the eris in its current incarnation, though... |

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
736
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 04:06:00 -
[385] - Quote
@Fozzie and friends: I hope you guys are going to post your second draft soon. And I hope it's good. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2540
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 07:22:00 -
[386] - Quote
There probably won't be time for a third draft between now and release day, so the second draft has to be good. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
737
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 09:37:00 -
[387] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:There probably won't be time for a third draft between now and release day, so the second draft has to be good.
I know :\
I'm not too optimistic, but hey, you never know. |

Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:54:00 -
[388] - Quote
I'd almost rather wait to a post-expansion update and do it right then half-ass it because of ~deadlines~. |
|

CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7917

|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:28:00 -
[389] - Quote
OP now updated with version 2. We've incorporated the one launcher per ship idea, added a new MWD sig penalty reduction and increased the resists (now EAF level T2 resists) and HP of all the dictors. We've also updated the Eris to the latest version of the Roden philosophy, giving it pure hybrid bonuses to Optimal, Tracking and Damage.
To compensate for the survivability changes we're dropping the warp speed a touch to 6.75au/s. We've also moderated the changes to the agility of the Heretic and Sabre.
As for the bubble launcher, we have it set with a 3 round clip, 5 second duration, and 60 second reload. One per ship. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1436
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:31:00 -
[390] - Quote
Good changes fozz!!! There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
|

LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
52
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:38:00 -
[391] - Quote
Thats looking alot better than v1, need some time to digest these major changes though.
|

xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:38:00 -
[392] - Quote
That's much better 
Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload? |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2760
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:39:00 -
[393] - Quote
That... might be ok. Hmmm... 
Edit: wait wtf still one low on the flycatcher? What is wrong with you people??
Edit2: OK I'm done thinking about it. I'm going to stick to interceptors in Rubicon and just not worry about the dictors. Maybe expansion after next, a?
o7 fly coffins.
|

BadAssMcKill
Love Squad
418
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:40:00 -
[394] - Quote
You've somehow messed them up worse http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |

Doed
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
52
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:41:00 -
[395] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:OP now updated with version 2. We've incorporated the one launcher per ship idea, added a new MWD sig penalty reduction and increased the resists (now EAF level T2 resists) and HP of all the dictors. We've also updated the Eris to the latest version of the Roden philosophy, giving it pure hybrid bonuses to Optimal, Tracking and Damage.
To compensate for the survivability changes we're dropping the warp speed a touch to 6.75au/s. We've also moderated the changes to the agility of the Heretic and Sabre.
As for the bubble launcher, we have it set with a 3 round clip, 5 second duration, and 60 second reload. One per ship.
Thank you so much! Flycatcher is so much better now with these changes!
Wait, it's still a complete ******* garbage dictor. only 1 launcher per ship and Flycatcher is left with 6 launchers?
YEAH I WANNA NOS MAH FLYCASHUR XOXOXO
-10/10
|

Tuxedo Catfish
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:42:00 -
[396] - Quote
Please swap a lowslot for a mid on the Eris. Two mid-slot frigates and destroyers are a joke unless they're kiting ships, which dictors emphatically are not. I don't understand why something so counterproductive has to be a "design philosophy" for the Roden line. Not to mention even the armor-bonused Amarr one gets more tha two!
Other than that, changes sound great. |
|

CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7921

|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:42:00 -
[397] - Quote
xttz wrote:That's much better  Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload?
It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger clips rather than faster reload, but both are possible. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|

Montami
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:45:00 -
[398] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:xttz wrote:That's much better  Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload? It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger clips rather than faster reload, but both are possible.
RIP bubbling + cloaking + bubbling + cloaking + bubbling + cloaking.
|

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:49:00 -
[399] - Quote
Montami wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:xttz wrote:That's much better  Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload? It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger clips rather than faster reload, but both are possible. RIP bubbling + cloaking + bubbling + cloaking + bubbling + cloaking.
Oh no, tactics will have to adapt themselves to these new changes! :qq: Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Chirality Tisteloin
Zervas Aeronautics The Unthinkables
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:49:00 -
[400] - Quote
Looks interesting. Bubble launcher changes are good.
In terms of survivability I would go for minimum sig radius. Large ships should have real problems hitting them. MWD sig radius goes in the right direction but maybe you want to drive this even further. Assault frigates should be the counter to dictors.
I think cloaky dictors is still an interesting option: Maybe a slight increase in speed/agility while cloaked? See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/ |
|

xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:53:00 -
[401] - Quote
On further inspection, my only question is why the Heretic gets a resists bonus (plus two weapons bonuses), while all the others get three weapon bonuses.
When survivability is such an issue, how about:
Heretic: +4% armour resists per level Flycatcher: +4% shield resists per level Eris: +4% armour HP per level Sabre: +4% shield HP per level |

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
580
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:54:00 -
[402] - Quote
some progress here nice to see.... but some things needs addressed
- higher sig radius than T1 dessies... makes no sense especially combined with the 50% mwd sig red ..Talwar has better sig still - slot layouts need fixing 1 low isn't much use and is limiting.. -reduce highs by 2 add them to the gaping holes on ships low/mid slots .. compensate dps with double/ partial damage increases
flycatcher .. 6-5-3 heretic ... 6-3-5 eris ... 6-4-4 sabre ... 6-5-3 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
|

CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7930

|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:57:00 -
[403] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:some progress here nice to see.... but some things needs addressed
- higher sig radius than T1 dessies... makes no sense especially combined with the 50% mwd sig red ..Talwar has better sig still - slot layouts need fixing 1 low isn't much use and is limiting.. -reduce highs by 2 add them to the gaping holes on ships low/mid slots .. compensate dps with double/ partial damage increases
flycatcher .. 6-5-3 heretic ... 6-3-5 eris ... 6-4-4 sabre ... 6-5-3
You are asking for quite gigantic increases in power for all the ships. I don't doubt that all those changes would make the Dictors better, but that doesn't mean that they would make the game better. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|

Diivil
Magellanic Itg Goonswarm Federation
227
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:58:00 -
[404] - Quote
Why does an armor dictor get a resist bonus and a shield one doesn't? |

Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1346
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:59:00 -
[405] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:xttz wrote:That's much better  Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload? It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger clips rather than faster reload, but both are possible.
Magazine Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
580
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:59:00 -
[406] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Harvey James wrote:some progress here nice to see.... but some things needs addressed
- higher sig radius than T1 dessies... makes no sense especially combined with the 50% mwd sig red ..Talwar has better sig still - slot layouts need fixing 1 low isn't much use and is limiting.. -reduce highs by 2 add them to the gaping holes on ships low/mid slots .. compensate dps with double/ partial damage increases
flycatcher .. 6-5-3 heretic ... 6-3-5 eris ... 6-4-4 sabre ... 6-5-3 You are asking for quite gigantic increases in power for all the ships. I don't doubt that all those changes would make the Dictors better, but that doesn't mean that they would make the game better.
fair enough but even some movement on these are needed.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
425
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:06:00 -
[407] - Quote
Pretty bland. Why even have 3 manufacturers if you only want 2 flavours of T2 gallente? |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
425
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:08:00 -
[408] - Quote
Diivil wrote:Why does an armor dictor get a resist bonus and a shield one doesn't?
Probably because shield buffer tanking is ridiculously better than armour on frigs/destroyers. |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:13:00 -
[409] - Quote
Should be magazine not CLIP
Clip is something used to store or speedload ammo, not something used to fire the ammunition
http://xtremerecoil.net/clip-vs-magazine/ |
|

CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7930

|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:16:00 -
[410] - Quote
Magazine terminology corrected. :) Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
|

Longdrinks
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:19:00 -
[411] - Quote
Cool changes |

Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
41
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:20:00 -
[412] - Quote
Flycatcher needs a 7th launcher. |

Darth Felin
Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:21:00 -
[413] - Quote
Flycatcher is still bad, why is it left alone as the only dictor that can not use all its high slots for the weapon/bubble launchers?
Sabre 7+1 Eris 7+1 Heretic 7+1 and only flycatcher is 6+1 for launcher + 1???? for what??
Give it additional low slot please or at least give it additional launcher. |

Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
41
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:24:00 -
[414] - Quote
Darth Felin wrote:Flycatcher is still bad, why is it left alone as the only dictor that can not use all its high slots for the weapon/bubble launchers?
Sabre 7+1 Eris 7+1 Heretic 7+1 and only flycatcher is 6+1 for launcher + 1???? for what??
Give it additional low slot please or at least give it additional launcher.
Hmm, yeah: 7/5/2 with 6 launchers is also an option, but that would probably be OP. |

Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:29:00 -
[415] - Quote
Fly could do with another launcher or the utility high swapped for a low.
Fly 7 high / 6 launcher / 2 lows
or
Fly 7 high / 7 launcher / 1 low
Current setup of 6.75 effective launcher/turrets looks bad next to the 8.75 effective launcher/turrets of other hulls.
|

Doed
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
52
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:30:00 -
[416] - Quote
Darth Felin wrote:Flycatcher is still bad, why is it left alone as the only dictor that can not use all its high slots for the weapon/bubble launchers?
Sabre 7+1 Eris 7+1 Heretic 7+1 and only flycatcher is 6+1 for launcher + 1???? for what??
Give it additional low slot please or at least give it additional launcher.
It's for the 2nd probe launcher.... waaaaaait.........
|

Nerriana
Fistful of Finns Bearf0rce One
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:40:00 -
[417] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:OP now updated with version 2.
Much better. Thank you, Fozzie, for listening to the players.
Eris' 2 midslots and Flycatcher's 1 lowslot are still kinda LOL, though. Gonna still fly Heretic or Sabre, looks like...
|

Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
717
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:44:00 -
[418] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:As for the bubble launcher, we have it set with a 3 round magazine, 5 second duration, and 60 second reload. One per ship. Why are you guys moving toward adding increased restrictions in the game? You have to realize that "X per ship" or similar restrictions is utterly and completely contrary to a "sandbox" idea where fittings are limited only by PG and CPU and the pilot's imagination? In this case, if a pilot wants to gimp his fitting to have two launchers, he should be able to do so. The trade off there is that his ship is gimped and will be easily destroyable. It feels like "traditional" balancing philosophies are being replaced by "easier" restriction-style ones. Overall, it really dampens a lot of the fun of trying out various fits, removes elements of surprise (will this dic have 2 launchers, cloak, good tank, etc.?), and cheapens the experience.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
702
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:46:00 -
[419] - Quote
Nerriana wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:OP now updated with version 2. Much better. Thank you, Fozzie, for listening to the players. Eris' 2 midslots and Flycatcher's 1 lowslot are still kinda LOL, though. Gonna still fly Heretic or Sabre, looks like... Fit MWD and web.
Target outside bubble? You have 2 more! |

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
702
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:48:00 -
[420] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Why are you guys moving toward adding increased restrictions in the game? You have to realize that "X per ship" or similar restrictions is utterly and completely contrary to a "sandbox" idea where fittings are limited only by PG and CPU and the pilot's imagination? Some restrictions are good. We don't want 3 MWD's fit to a ship now do we? Or several MJD's. It breaks balance. |
|

Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
717
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:57:00 -
[421] - Quote
It doesn't particularly make a lot of sense that you've moved these ships away from speed and toward survivability. Their purpose is to interdict and obstruct fleet movements with bubbles. Having a faster warp speed (even at the cost of ehp) was more in line with this philosophy. Increasing ehp? I mean, come on, let's think about this: these things are destroyers. They're not going to survive. If you want something tanky to hold a bubble, use a HIC. These differentiated themselves as quick bubble platforms (capable of overtaking even a small, fast frigate fleet), and they excelled at this much more. Now, they're "tanky" (what?) destroyers that are as slow as T2 frigates.
edit: Additionally, it feels like this latest round of changes moves the ship away from "specialization." If the community really wants a tanky T2 destroyer, then make another line of real tanky destroyers from the newest ones that is just that: an actual tanky T2 destroyer made to destroy things. Don't shoehorn these specialized fleet interdicting ships into that role as well. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4391
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:57:00 -
[422] - Quote
No shout out?...  . |

Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:57:00 -
[423] - Quote
Interesting!
Good:
- Won't get asked to fit double bubbles anymore!
- Might be able to squeeze in a scan probe launcher!
- One low on Flycatcher continues to make Caldari pilots cry!
Confusing:
- People try to shoot things with dictors?
- People think dictors survive a big fight?
- No matter what changes, I'll still get told to fly a Sabre.
|

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
103
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:59:00 -
[424] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Magazine terminology corrected. :) You've missed a great opportunity here -- namely, to call it "clipazine" and make the spergs on both side of the aisle angry.
In all seriousness, though, this is a very good change, especially to the interdiction sphere launcher. Too many times I've been sitting on a gatecamp, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the sphere launcher to come off cooldown so I can ensure that a pod does not escape. The ASB-style reload mechanic means I don't have to wait any more.
One question -- can the new interdiction sphere launcher reload while cloaked? Having to hang out uncloaked on grid for a full minute, especially in a large fleet fight, would be darn near suicidal for the dictor, and just plain inconvenient otherwise. It's not a huge thing, but if it's possible, it'd be much appreciated. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Flying Apocalypse
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:00:00 -
[425] - Quote
Question about their description: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Shouldn't the be Launcher? Seeing how they can only fit 1 not multiple?(Same with marauders and bastion) For some reason I can't delete my signature o.o |
|

CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7938

|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:02:00 -
[426] - Quote
Querns wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Magazine terminology corrected. :) You've missed a great opportunity here -- namely, to call it "clipazine" and make the spergs on both side of the aisle angry. In all seriousness, though, this is a very good change, especially to the interdiction sphere launcher. Too many times I've been sitting on a gatecamp, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the sphere launcher to come off cooldown so I can ensure that a pod does not escape. The ASB-style reload mechanic means I don't have to wait any more. One question -- can the new interdiction sphere launcher reload while cloaked? Having to hang out uncloaked on grid for a full minute, especially in a large fleet fight, would be darn near suicidal for the dictor, and just plain inconvenient otherwise. It's not a huge thing, but if it's possible, it'd be much appreciated.
It can't reload while cloaked. This is probably the part of the change that will have the most disruptive effect on current dictor tactics. However with the new resists and bonus pilots may choose to keep shooting while reloading and warping away and back is also always an option. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4391
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:02:00 -
[427] - Quote
Querns wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Magazine terminology corrected. :) You've missed a great opportunity here -- namely, to call it "clipazine" and make the spergs on both side of the aisle angry. In all seriousness, though, this is a very good change, especially to the interdiction sphere launcher. Too many times I've been sitting on a gatecamp, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the sphere launcher to come off cooldown so I can ensure that a pod does not escape. The ASB-style reload mechanic means I don't have to wait any more. One question -- can the new interdiction sphere launcher reload while cloaked? Having to hang out uncloaked on grid for a full minute, especially in a large fleet fight, would be darn near suicidal for the dictor, and just plain inconvenient otherwise. It's not a huge thing, but if it's possible, it'd be much appreciated. While reloading, take the opportunity to blow up some enemy frigates and support like a boss.  . |

Warn1nG Soul
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:06:00 -
[428] - Quote
Just Awesome, thanks for the SigRadius bonus CCP, finally, I wait for 6 years to fly Dictors, now I start training for them ;)
"Vince Draken > gonna carry neuts just incase i come accross you" <------ Now you gonna need carry a Micro Jump Drive !! |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
103
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:10:00 -
[429] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: It can't reload while cloaked. This is probably the part of the change that will have the most disruptive effect on current dictor tactics. However with the new resists and bonus pilots may choose to keep shooting while reloading and warping away and back is also always an option.
Hrm, that is gonna make things different then, yeah. The numbers are fairly well tuned, though. I guess it's easier just to adapt. Thanks for the information :) This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
130
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:14:00 -
[430] - Quote
RIP flying coffins. You will not be missed.
I, for one, welcome our new combat interdictor overlords. |
|

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1437
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:19:00 -
[431] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:No shout out?... 
technically i was first
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3740749#post3740749
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
94
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:27:00 -
[432] - Quote
My neutral prober will have Heretic 4 when Rubicon hits TQ. RIP any fleet. Shadoo > whoever was the first nyx on grid Shadoo > THANK GOD YOU ARE A SMART MAN and fitted the best tank in PL Shadoo > (ie. cyno) |

Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:27:00 -
[433] - Quote
The version 2 pass is much better; especially the changes to the bubble launcher mechanics and survivability. Good job CCP. |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:34:00 -
[434] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:No shout out?... 
Your head is inflated enough from this as it is. If he gave you a shoutout, it'd probably explode and there'd be bits of bone and brain all over the place.
Oops wait, no, only bone. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
103
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:38:00 -
[435] - Quote
Oh -- one other thing -- could I request that, in some future release, that the UI be tweaked to show a reload timer on guns and other reloadables like the ASB and the new interdiction sphere launcher? One of the things I hate about the current interdiction sphere launcher is there was no way to tell when it was ready to launch a new bubble. The new one won't really have this problem, but the reload timer is long enough that some sort of visual indicator of its reload progress would be appreciated.
You could display it like the gun cycle timer -- a circle that slowly gets drawn around the outside of the module's icon to indicate reloading progress. Maybe make it a different color than the gun cycle timer, and have it draw counterclockwise (compared to the clockwise action of the gun cycle timer.) This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Ben Kerensky
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:40:00 -
[436] - Quote
I'm loving these changes; I do have a consideration for you!
As the Flycatcher's weapons specialty is missile/rocket bonuses, have you considered changing the model for the Flycatcher from the Cormorant's to the Corax's to suit?
You'd have to divert a little development pizza, cookies, and soda to the Art team to get the model re-painted in blue and grimdark, but I think a lot of people would fly a Bubble Submarine on aesthetic principle alone, pending rebalance aside...
Quote:
- No matter what changes, I'll still get told to fly a Sabre.
^ Ahaha |

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:50:00 -
[437] - Quote
Wow.
So the moment someone noticed that the Heretic is actually, you know, better than the Sabre in certain scenarios, you nerf it and buff the Sabre.
Also, congrats on listening to the most idiotic suggestions. Launch 3 probes in rapid succession? Why would you ever need to do that - launching two is already suicide.
One interdiction sphere per ship - do you really think that all of a sudden fleet interdictors will fit guns/scram? They won't - because at the end of the day all of it remains useless. The only thing you can bet on is that now fleets will have to have double the amount of interdictors...
Slow warp speed? I don't think you understand that an Interdictor needs that warp speed advantage to do its job.
MWD bonus? Yay - CCP has no idea what to do, and is handing out overpowered bonus' left and right. Good luck killing a Sabre with a well-timed bomb. It shall now join the ranks of AF immunity wise.
Roll back the changes. V1 was okay - the only thing that needed to be fixed was the Eris, by giving it more CPU. Everything else was reasonably buffed.
And please stop listening to people that have never flown the ship. |

Utremi Fasolasi
The Scope Gallente Federation
292
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:51:00 -
[438] - Quote
I don't get this trend with Roden ships away from missiles. There's reasons for them having missiles implied in PF and COSMOS, ie clandestine links to Caldari corps, and we have Duvolle for hybrid weapons. Creodron covers drone ships of course.
The Roden ships should have bonuses for Thermal missiles which is a niche no other ships have in the game other than the Nemesis.
Please don't gut the backstory to make Roden ships into something Duvolle Labs could have done.. |

XvXTeacherVxV
S.E.N.T.I.N.E.L.
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:58:00 -
[439] - Quote
Updated changes are great. These are actually ships now instead of "coffins" as Fozzie put it. EVE Forums need a button right next to "like" that says "you need to calm your silly self down."Can you see the rapier??-áhttp://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
105
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:58:00 -
[440] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:Wow.
So the moment someone noticed that the Heretic is actually, you know, better than the Sabre in certain scenarios, you nerf it and buff the Sabre.
Also, congrats on listening to the most idiotic suggestions. Launch 3 probes in rapid succession? Why would you ever need to do that - launching two is already suicide.
One interdiction sphere per ship - do you really think that all of a sudden fleet interdictors will fit guns/scram? They won't - because at the end of the day all of it remains useless. The only thing you can bet on is that now fleets will have to have double the amount of interdictors...
Slow warp speed? I don't think you understand that an Interdictor needs that warp speed advantage to do its job.
MWD bonus? Yay - CCP has no idea what to do, and is handing out overpowered bonus' left and right. Good luck killing a Sabre with a well-timed bomb. It shall now join the ranks of AF immunity wise.
Roll back the changes. V1 was okay - the only thing that needed to be fixed was the Eris, by giving it more CPU. Everything else was reasonably buffed.
And please stop listening to people that have never flown the ship. Wow. Just, wow. So, rather than being able to launch 2-3 bubbles in quick succession, you'd prefer to horribly gimp your fit to logjam two bubble launchers onto a dictor? 100 extra CPU makes fitting a tank a whole lot easier!
The new interdiction sphere launcher proposed is qualitatively better than the current model in nearly every single way. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
|

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
47
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:59:00 -
[441] - Quote
why do they have a bigger sig radius than t1 destroiers? in fact, why do they have a bigger sig radius than some CRUISERS? really, do you think thise ships will have any chance to survive a fleet battle? was looking forward to fly them again, looks that won't happen.... |

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:02:00 -
[442] - Quote
Querns wrote:Wow. Just, wow. So, rather than being able to launch 2-3 bubbles in quick succession, you'd prefer to horribly gimp your fit to logjam two bubble launchers onto a dictor? 100 extra CPU makes fitting a tank a whole lot easier!
The new interdiction sphere launcher proposed is qualitatively better than the current model in nearly every single way.
Go back to ratting you clueless noob, there's a reason every single dictor fits 2x interdiction sphere launchers. If you haven't figured out why that means you've never flown an Interdictor. In which case, why are you posting?
|

Drew Li
Space Exploitation Inc Get Off My Lawn
48
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:06:00 -
[443] - Quote
Can there be a new T2 launcher that fires all 3 at once 10k forward at 45 degree angles? |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
106
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:09:00 -
[444] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:Querns wrote:Wow. Just, wow. So, rather than being able to launch 2-3 bubbles in quick succession, you'd prefer to horribly gimp your fit to logjam two bubble launchers onto a dictor? 100 extra CPU makes fitting a tank a whole lot easier!
The new interdiction sphere launcher proposed is qualitatively better than the current model in nearly every single way. Go back to ratting you clueless noob, there's a reason every single dictor fits 2x interdiction sphere launchers. If you haven't figured out why that means you've never flown an Interdictor. In which case, why are you posting? Well, O Master of PvP, please explain to me how two single bubble launchers on a ship is better than one that can fire not twice, but three times under the same reload period. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Aegis Stormborn
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:21:00 -
[445] - Quote
As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs. |

kogelbiefstuk
Contraband Inc
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:41:00 -
[446] - Quote
Why is it that the sabre gets rockin resist increases on its tank over the rest ? its usually fit shield. but the flycatcher is a t2 ship with 0 resists to em on its shields? when are you gonna quit being so hatfull on the t2/t3 caldari em hole? come on! they are t2 they should have some resists on the tank they fit for. |

Kane Fenris
NWP
105
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:41:00 -
[447] - Quote
Aegis Stormborn wrote:As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs.
the question is weather this is a bad thing or not i think it will separate good pilots from bad pilots and thats a good thing
|

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4392
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:41:00 -
[448] - Quote
Aegis Stormborn wrote:As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs. Please expand a bit on what you mean. . |

kogelbiefstuk
Contraband Inc
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:46:00 -
[449] - Quote
Kane Fenris wrote:Aegis Stormborn wrote:As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs. the question is weather this is a bad thing or not i think it will separate good pilots from bad pilots and thats a good thing
get use two then |

Sigras
Conglomo
534
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:46:00 -
[450] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Magazine terminology corrected. :) Actually in that context either clip or magazine could be correct depending on how the sphere launcher is loaded.
Some weapons have a fixed magazine that you feed a clip into in order to reload (M1 Garand) Other weapons have detachable magazines (AK-47)
So i guess my question is, which do interdiction sphere launchers use? |
|

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
110
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:50:00 -
[451] - Quote
kogelbiefstuk wrote:Why is it that the sabre gets rockin resist increases on its tank over the rest ? its usually fit shield. but the flycatcher is a t2 ship with 0 resists to em on its shields? when are you gonna quit being so hatfull on the t2/t3 caldari em hole? come on! they are t2 they should have some resists on the tank they fit for.
It's an artifact of how the T2 resists work. Every T2 ship gets T2 resists that work against that ship's race's lore enemy. So, for Caldari, the T2 resists bump kinetic/thermal resists to hilarious levels, since Gallente shoot that type of damage.
In the case of Minmatar, its lore enemy, Amarr, shoots EM/Thermal, so it gets extra resists for those types. However, the default profile of shields has an EM hole, so their T2 resists just fit naturally in the hole, which is why T2 minmatar ships are so beastly. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
198
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:50:00 -
[452] - Quote
Well I get the heretic changes. It's forcing the amarr ship to fit an armor tank, same with the Eris.
Sabre's still the baseline, flycatcher's your shieldboat.
Thank you for turning the Eris back into a hybrid weapons ship. It should have some more potential of being a mobile sniping boat, especially with the tracking bonuses (it now has some method of applying damage, even it's its minimal), and be able to get out of its own bubble to do it). Eris looks like it could be a decent small gang ship. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|

Doed
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
53
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:53:00 -
[453] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Querns wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Magazine terminology corrected. :) You've missed a great opportunity here -- namely, to call it "clipazine" and make the spergs on both side of the aisle angry. In all seriousness, though, this is a very good change, especially to the interdiction sphere launcher. Too many times I've been sitting on a gatecamp, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the sphere launcher to come off cooldown so I can ensure that a pod does not escape. The ASB-style reload mechanic means I don't have to wait any more. One question -- can the new interdiction sphere launcher reload while cloaked? Having to hang out uncloaked on grid for a full minute, especially in a large fleet fight, would be darn near suicidal for the dictor, and just plain inconvenient otherwise. It's not a huge thing, but if it's possible, it'd be much appreciated. It can't reload while cloaked. This is probably the part of the change that will have the most disruptive effect on current dictor tactics. However with the new resists and bonus pilots may choose to keep shooting while reloading and warping away and back is also always an option.
This is a good change, allows me to stay on the field to do some dps due to boosted survivability of my 12 dps flycatcher with 1 low! thankyou Fozzie! |

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
664
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:58:00 -
[454] - Quote
Nice v2 !
Count me in !  G££ <= Me |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
133
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:03:00 -
[455] - Quote
My flycatcher accepts these changes with joy. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1136
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:14:00 -
[456] - Quote
not exactly sure if this is a warp speed issue or if it belongs here
people have been talking about dictors instantly arriving on grid, therefore not giving ships already on grid a warning
is this a bug or a feature ? We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |

Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
160
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:17:00 -
[457] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch? With interdictors 5 and 2 launchers you can currently launch 2 bubbles and then both launchers are in a 59 seconds reactivation delay. You have a 70.8 seconds delay if you are at 4. With shipskill 1 to 3 you should fly something else anyway 
With the proposed design, you can launch 3 bubbles over a period of 15 seconds, then reload 60 seconds. Meaning your second batch of bubbles is 5 seconds late over a current interdictor 4 pilot, but you have one more bubble to compensate. With 5 the delay between the first and the fourth bubble is longer, but the delay between the first and the third significantly shorter, allowing you to interdict a larger volume of space initially.
Where the proposed setup is worse is in an Interdictor 5 scenario where you use both launchers with a 60 seconds offset to spam bubbles at a constant rate. This is, however, not a tactic one currently survives. If your dictors have that high of a degree of freedom of on-field mobility, you already dominate the field absolutely.
For a "going in, dumping bubbles, getting out again, repeat" scenario the v2 proposal gives you one additional bubble over most setups (few dictors can make triple fits work), and increased survivability on your way in and out. |

Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:20:00 -
[458] - Quote
Querns wrote:Marian Devers wrote:Querns wrote:Wow. Just, wow. So, rather than being able to launch 2-3 bubbles in quick succession, you'd prefer to horribly gimp your fit to logjam two bubble launchers onto a dictor? 100 extra CPU makes fitting a tank a whole lot easier!
The new interdiction sphere launcher proposed is qualitatively better than the current model in nearly every single way. Go back to ratting you clueless noob, there's a reason every single dictor fits 2x interdiction sphere launchers. If you haven't figured out why that means you've never flown an Interdictor. In which case, why are you posting? Well, O Master of PvP, please explain to me how two single bubble launchers on a ship is better than one that can fire not twice, but three times under the same reload period. e: Feel free to check eve-kill for some examples of me flying a sabre. I tend to prefer daredevils, though. That link is only for a single month, though -- all-time lists appear to be broken and I cannot be arsed to find all the times I ever flew a sabre.
I'm not sure this veritable demi-goddess of PVP realizes that the reactivation timer was a minute with dictors trained to V. |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:31:00 -
[459] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:Marian Devers wrote:Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch? With interdictors 5 and 2 launchers you can currently launch 2 bubbles and then both launchers are in a 59 seconds reactivation delay. You have a 70.8 seconds delay if you are at 4. With shipskill 1 to 3 you should fly something else anyway  With the proposed design, you can launch 3 bubbles over a period of 15 seconds, then reload 60 seconds. Meaning your second batch of bubbles is 5 seconds late over a current interdictor 4 pilot, but you have one more bubble to compensate. With 5 the delay between the first and the fourth bubble is longer, but the delay between the first and the third significantly shorter, allowing you to interdict a larger volume of space initially. Where the proposed setup is worse is in an Interdictor 5 scenario where you use both launchers with a 60 seconds offset to spam bubbles at a constant rate. This is, however, not a tactic one currently survives. If your dictors have that high of a degree of freedom of on-field mobility, you already dominate the field absolutely. For a "going in, dumping bubbles, getting out again, repeat" scenario the v2 proposal gives you one additional bubble over most setups (few dictors can make triple fits work), and increased survivability on your way in and out. This is a well-reasoned explanation that even a simple person can follow. Thanks! This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
738
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:32:00 -
[460] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:Roll back the changes. V1 was okay
Marian Devers wrote:And please stop listening to people that have never flown the ship.
Am I the only one who finds this post confusing?
Good job, Foz-man! These dictors look pretty good to me: a hell of an improvement over version 1 and something I would definitely send to TQ for a few months of observation before contemplating whether more changes are necessary.
The only comment I really have at this point is that I'm not sure how I feel about the warp speed: I think if it were me I'd peg dictors at 8au/s, AFs at 9, and both flavors of inty at 13.5. Still, its not like dictors are going to get outrun by many targets even at 6au/s. I'll be curious to see how this plays out on TQ with warp speed mechanics just being so different in general. I suspect 6 au/s will be adequate, but I'll keep an eye on it.
I'm really glad you guys cooked up a real proposal! This just looks so much better than V1... I'm really relieved! Finally the months of "can't fight anything with my Sabre" look to be coming to an end! |
|

Major Killz
La Fraternite
264
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:34:00 -
[461] - Quote
Take 1 mid from Flycatcher and move to low slot. Thank you. - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos
- Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
133
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:52:00 -
[462] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Take 1 mid from Flycatcher and move to low slot. Thank you.
If the flycatcher is to have a second low, this would be my preferred change. Having said that, I have learned to live with the single low. It's just the way she is. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

Gallastian Khanid
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:04:00 -
[463] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:OP now updated with version 2. We've incorporated the one bubble launcher per ship idea, added a new MWD sig penalty reduction and increased the resists (now EAF level T2 resists) and HP of all the dictors. We've also updated the Eris to the latest version of the Roden philosophy, giving it pure hybrid bonuses to Optimal, Tracking and Damage.
To compensate for the survivability changes we're dropping the warp speed a touch to 6.75au/s. We've also moderated the changes to the agility of the Heretic and Sabre.
As for the bubble launcher, we have it set with a 3 round magazine, 5 second duration, and 60 second reload. One per ship.
<3 |

Maximillian Dragonard
Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai
266
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:07:00 -
[464] - Quote
I actually like the saber changes. Allows for 5 guns, bubble, and expanded probe launcher (and maybe cloak), while still fitting a bit of a buffer tank. With the warp changes, this should be fun!  Wut?! |

Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
53
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:12:00 -
[465] - Quote
I like the new changes, but can you give the flycatcher the 5% resist per level instead of the damage bonus so that is fills a shield fleet tackle role like how the Heretic now fulls a armor fleet tackle role? |

Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:18:00 -
[466] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Take 1 mid from Flycatcher and move to low slot. Thank you.
I was going to post this, but I see I've been beaten to it. One low slot is as awkward on the Flycatcher as it was on the Cormorant.
If the goal is to make the Flycatcher significantly tankier than the Sabre, you could also swap the application bonus for a resist bonus like happened to the Heretic. |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:21:00 -
[467] - Quote
Version 2 is a much better iteration than version 1. Thank you for listening to community feedback! |

Khira Kitamatsu
723
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:26:00 -
[468] - Quote
Loving these new changes. You've almost hit the sweet spot. My concern is the Sig Radius is still a little big. Could you drop them down at least 5 more. We're just advanced dessies - not a hybrid between a cruiser and dessie. Second, though I am no fan of the Flycatcher - it needs the same treatment as the others. Give it another launcher slot. It should be 7+1. And drop one of the mid slots to a low slot. Of all the dictors the Flycatcher in this iteration is the worst. Just needs some love to bring it up to par with the others. 
Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |

Aegis Stormborn
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:41:00 -
[469] - Quote
Kane Fenris wrote:Aegis Stormborn wrote:As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs. the question is weather this is a bad thing or not i think it will separate good pilots from bad pilots and thats a good thing
Not really. I dig all the ship changes, Sabre is my go to ship. It's the bubble launcher changes, the 60 second reload and small charge quantity will mean that you are apt to miss some people during the reload. That particular change is more geared towards large fleet engagements so I guess take the bad with the good. I'll look forward to dog fighting in my new OP Sabre :) |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
131
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:45:00 -
[470] - Quote
Why do people keep asking for another launcher on the Flycatcher? With max skills it already has more effective weapons than any of the other interdictors (9 vs 8.75) and with an application bonus to boot. |
|

Xorth Adimus
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:50:00 -
[471] - Quote
I love these changes. You had me at Sabre with t2 resists and 10% mwd sig reduction /lvl.
My only issue is the new mechanic for interdiction launchers. 5 second refire is a bit slow, makes dropping 2nd bubble rapidly as you burn to decloak a covert ops a strictly 2 dictor job. That reload time is a lifetime.. Especially with the new gate to gate warp speeds.
5 seconds and a covert ops cloaker is easily out of 1st bubble and in warp.
I'd rather have a 1 second delay and a 2 bubble mag with 30 second reload.
3 bubbles is nice for covering a regional gate/ station but that's about it. Larger mag size could be something maybe a future T2 interdiction launcher could do for a higher cost / fitting?
I completely agree with the following.
Maximus Andendare wrote: The 7th hardpoint on the heretic is weird and unnecessary, and I think they should just drop a highslot for a low on that one and the flycatcher if they want to improve fitting. They'd have to use full t2 resists on them all, but give the flycatcher and heretic an extra low from a high. That and the heretic and flycatcher getting respective resist bonuses would be perfect, turning them into the 'combat' interdictors and the eris and sabre the 'attack' variants.
-Eris and Sabre for speed agility and damage.
-Heretic and Flycatcher for a bit more durability and fitting options and less damage.
I could see myself having one of each of these depending on the situation!
|

Marwen DeGaulle
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:56:00 -
[472] - Quote
How about an aggression timer for when someone tries to initiate warp inside the bubble? |

Sakura Nihil
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
310
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:03:00 -
[473] - Quote
I'm liking these changes... nice. 
Now if you would just stop trying to make the Eos fit onto a Myrmidon hull, that would be great. Glory |

Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
163
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:22:00 -
[474] - Quote
Xorth Adimus wrote:Larger mag size could be something maybe a future T2 interdiction launcher could do for a higher cost / fitting?
T2 could also go in the 2-3 seconds activation and/or 30-45 seconds reload direction.
Just thinking about the fact that I'm here discussing actual options that a T2 bubble launcher could have blows my mind, considering how little impact any module changes would have on the current module+ship combination (apart from lower fittings of course). |

Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:25:00 -
[475] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:ERIS - Eris is the next in the new new Roden designs. Switching away from the split weapons and giving Roden a focus on hybrid turret optimal and tracking, which lends itself especially well to railguns but also works well with blasters. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings.
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range per level (was falloff) 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage) 10% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level (was bubble launcher delay reduction)
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 7(+1) turrets, 1(-3) launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 800(+49) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 40(+20) / 70(+20) / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 51.25(+16.25) / 67.5(+22.5) / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0(-5) / 0(-5) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1) This... may not be what I was expecting, entirely, but it's a welcome change from split weapons and I'm quite pleased to see it.
Please continue, oh mighty Fozz. |

Sushi Nardieu
0utbreak Outbreak.
164
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:31:00 -
[476] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:xttz wrote:That's much better  Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload? It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger magazines rather than faster reload, but both are possible.
How about decreased fire rate and possibly a lower magazine in favour of removing the sphere launcher fitting limit? This would allow the interdictor skill be meaningful in terms of bubbles because it could increase fire rate.
People can be creative with their dictors and trade-off certain aspects for a specific role. Then small-fleet sabres get some contrast in fit from the blob level dictors.
You're giving a lot of new bonuses for survivability. Allow people to multiply that survivability with heavier fits while trading off for lesser bubble ability. One launcher per dictor would inhibit this fitting meta somewhat no?
Just want to throw it out there for people to mull over.
On the other hand, the T2 launcher sounds interesting too. The Guns of Knowledge-á |

Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
58
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:38:00 -
[477] - Quote
<3 the changes on Eris and Ares alike, everytime you fit a missile launcher to Gallente boat you kill a kitten  |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2541
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:00:00 -
[478] - Quote
The Roden changes make me very interested in what we can expect for the Lachesis.
That aside, this version of the dictor revamp is much more promising than the 1st draft. Bubble buffs and decent T2 resists go a long way towards fixing this class. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

BORG QUEEN Assimilator
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:22:00 -
[479] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
But, if they are imune, only, to the buble they lunch, and keep not imune to the bubles from others?
|

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1442
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:40:00 -
[480] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The Roden changes make me very interested in what we can expect for the Lachesis.
That aside, this version of the dictor revamp is much more promising than the 1st draft. Bubble buffs and decent T2 resists go a long way towards fixing this class.
I would presume the missile rate of fire bonus would be switched for an optimal range bonus.
I would drop a high slot for a low and increase to 4 turrets.
Then change the damage bonus with rate of fire.
Maybe add more base armor hp and give it full tech ii resists There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
|

NUXI7
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
152
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 23:15:00 -
[481] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Querns wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Magazine terminology corrected. :) You've missed a great opportunity here -- namely, to call it "clipazine" and make the spergs on both side of the aisle angry. In all seriousness, though, this is a very good change, especially to the interdiction sphere launcher. Too many times I've been sitting on a gatecamp, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the sphere launcher to come off cooldown so I can ensure that a pod does not escape. The ASB-style reload mechanic means I don't have to wait any more. One question -- can the new interdiction sphere launcher reload while cloaked? Having to hang out uncloaked on grid for a full minute, especially in a large fleet fight, would be darn near suicidal for the dictor, and just plain inconvenient otherwise. It's not a huge thing, but if it's possible, it'd be much appreciated. It can't reload while cloaked. This is probably the part of the change that will have the most disruptive effect on current dictor tactics. However with the new resists and bonus pilots may choose to keep shooting while reloading and warping away and back is also always an option.
No amount of EHP will make a dictor not be a space coffin in a fleet fight. The only thing that gives you a chance of survival is the ability to cloak.
So while reloading while cloaked might be a bit OP, how about being able to complete a reload cycle that has already started? (currently if you cloak while reloading then the reloading operation simply fails) Or perhaps lowering the reload time to match the cloak reactivation delay at 30 seconds? |

Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
148
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 23:16:00 -
[482] - Quote
1 minute reload is the worst thing you can do with fleet dictors. Waiting next iteration... |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4395
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 23:37:00 -
[483] - Quote
Alexander the Great wrote:1 minute reload is the worst thing you can do with fleet dictors. Waiting next iteration... And a one minute fire rate we have now is different because? . |

E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 23:42:00 -
[484] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote: And a one minute fire rate we have now is different because?
I don't know about you, I have a 30 sec rof on my Interdictor. Maybe you're fitting it wrong? |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
616
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 23:48:00 -
[485] - Quote
Version 2 is much better.
Specially the amar one not being more agile than the minmatar one.
I hope you guys can keep in mind that a lot of the criticism of this thread can be applied on all classes sometimes.
Check for the real problem the pilots of thes eships face , and check that when you balance a ship you are not making it into a ship of another race. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |

Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 23:49:00 -
[486] - Quote
Fozzie when will this be on sisi?? Blue-Fire Best Fire |

Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
39
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 00:04:00 -
[487] - Quote
Changes are nice. Only problem I see is the flycatcher staying with 1 lowslot. Perhaps it and the heretic can drop a high for a low? Heretic could swap for firing rate bonus for missiles and drop a slot, to have a 7/3/4 slot loadout, flycatcher gets 7/5/2. Other than that, +1 fozzie, gj on the second round. |

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
30
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 00:09:00 -
[488] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:Marian Devers wrote:Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch? With interdictors 5 and 2 launchers you can currently launch 2 bubbles and then both launchers are in a 59 seconds reactivation delay. You have a 70.8 seconds delay if you are at 4. With shipskill 1 to 3 you should fly something else anyway  With the proposed design, you can launch 3 bubbles over a period of 15 seconds, then reload 60 seconds. Meaning your second batch of bubbles is 5 seconds late over a current interdictor 4 pilot, but you have one more bubble to compensate. With 5 the delay between the first and the fourth bubble is longer, but the delay between the first and the third significantly shorter, allowing you to interdict a larger volume of space initially. Where the proposed setup is worse is in an Interdictor 5 scenario where you use both launchers with a 60 seconds offset to spam bubbles at a constant rate. This is, however, not a tactic one currently survives. If your dictors have that high of a degree of freedom of on-field mobility, you already dominate the field absolutely. For a "going in, dumping bubbles, getting out again, repeat" scenario the v2 proposal gives you one additional bubble over most setups (few dictors can make triple fits work), and increased survivability on your way in and out.
You need to stop thinking in terms of one bubble run, and more in terms of an entire fleet fight.
I can currently launch 2x bubbles every time I land on the enemy fleet, giving me a total of 10x dictor runs (10 second reload - assume its unlimited runs as long as I have probes in my cargo). During this time I am free to cloak/jump through.
Alternatively, I can choose 10 minutes (i.e., as long as my cargo lasts) of rapid bubble launching every 30 seconds.
With the changes:
I can still pull off the 2x bubble runs, however that assumes that I neither cloak nor jump through during that time. During a fleet fight. YeahGǪ.
Alternatively, I can keep an enemy fleet bubbled for 90 seconds with 30x second bubble bursts, after which I have a reload gap of one minute. Once again, no cloaking or jumping through.
Finally, I can no longer keep a fleet bubbled with one bubble every 60 seconds, keeping a second bubble in reserve for any unexpected developments.
|

Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 00:56:00 -
[489] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Interdictors v2 ahoy!
We're going a bit more radical with the updated rebalance on these ships, incorporating a few good ideas from the community and making changes to the sphere launchers as well as the ships themselves.
The biggest change is to the Interdiction Sphere Launcher itself. We're removing the reactivation delay, and instead giving the Launcher a smaller three bubble magazine, 5 second cycle time and one minute reload time (like the ASB). Interdiction Sphere Launchers will then be limited to one per ship. This will mean that pilots will be able to launch three bubbles in quick succession and then wait 60 seconds for the reload, or choose to save their bubbles and launch one at a time to avoid the reload for as long as possible. The limit to one per ship will allow more practical fitting options for fleet dictors instead of forcing everyone into partially fit flying coffins, and fits well with the general survivability increases that are the second part of the v2 changes.
With the bubble reactivation delay gone, the shared Interdictors skill bonus is no longer needed and will be replaced with a 10% per level reduction in MWD signature radius penalty (at level 5 this gives the same benefit as the AF or HAC role bonus). We're also giving the dictors another slight bump in base HP and upgrading their T2 resists to the same level enjoyed by EAFs. Combined these changes should make it a lot more realistic for good interdictor pilots to stay on field for longer periods of time.
Since they are gaining such significant survivability benefits we are going to slightly pull back the speed at which they can enter the field, via a decrease in warp speed from 8au/s in the first proposal to 6.75au/s in this one (same speed as most T2 frigates). We are also toning down the agility changes on the Sabre and Heretic, to the slight benefit of the Sabre and slight detriment of the Heretic.
Finally we're also updating the Eris weapon systems to match the latest version of the Roden flavour. It will be a pure hybrid boat, with bonuses to optimal, tracking and damage. This matches the theme of the Ares and our plans for future rebalances of Roden Shipyards vessels.
a¦ÑGùía¦Ñ Faith restored |

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2333
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 01:22:00 -
[490] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:I like the new changes, but can you give the flycatcher the 5% resist per level instead of the damage bonus so that is fills a shield fleet tackle role like how the Heretic now fulls a armor fleet tackle role?
This please.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
|

Leto Atal
LoneStar Industries Comatose Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 01:25:00 -
[491] - Quote
No way should the Sabre have such a low agility compared with the others.
Why does the Heretic have a bonus to armour resistances? All the others have bonuses to weapon systems. I've always wondered about the reasons behind giving some ships extra tank and others yet another weapon bonus.
I'd like to see more equality on bonuses for ships in the same class. Resistances aren't the only bonuses that can be applied to improve defensive capability. What about x% reduction in signature radius per level for Minmatar ships for example? |

Drake Doe
Flatulaction
296
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 01:33:00 -
[492] - Quote
Finally the Eris is considerable for use, now let's wait til we can try it out. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4396
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 01:57:00 -
[493] - Quote
Leto Atal wrote:No way should the Sabre have such a low agility compared with the others.
Why does the Heretic have a bonus to armour resistances? All the others have bonuses to weapon systems. I've always wondered about the reasons behind giving some ships extra tank and others yet another weapon bonus.
I'd like to see more equality on bonuses for ships in the same class. Resistances aren't the only bonuses that can be applied to improve defensive capability. What about x% reduction in signature radius per level for Minmatar ships for example? It's called...
V A R I A T I O N
A N D
F L A V O R. . |

JohnHoe
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 02:14:00 -
[494] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Marian Devers wrote:Roll back the changes. V1 was okay Marian Devers wrote:And please stop listening to people that have never flown the ship. Am I the only one who finds this post confusing? Good job, Foz-man! These dictors look pretty good to me: a hell of an improvement over version 1 and something I would definitely send to TQ for a few months of observation before contemplating whether more changes are necessary. The only comment I really have at this point is that I'm not sure how I feel about the warp speed: I think if it were me I'd peg dictors at 8au/s, AFs at 9, and both flavors of inty at 13.5. Still, its not like dictors are going to get outrun by many targets even at 6au/s. I'll be curious to see how this plays out on TQ with warp speed mechanics just being so different in general. I suspect 6 au/s will be adequate, but I'll keep an eye on it. I'm really glad you guys cooked up a real proposal! This just looks so much better than V1... I'm really relieved! Finally the months of "can't fight anything with my Sabre" look to be coming to an end!
You can't kill anything regardless of changes. What I am saying is you are bad at video games. Eve mail me man. |

GeeShizzle MacCloud
375
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 02:29:00 -
[495] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Leto Atal wrote:No way should the Sabre have such a low agility compared with the others.
Why does the Heretic have a bonus to armour resistances? All the others have bonuses to weapon systems. I've always wondered about the reasons behind giving some ships extra tank and others yet another weapon bonus.
I'd like to see more equality on bonuses for ships in the same class. Resistances aren't the only bonuses that can be applied to improve defensive capability. What about x% reduction in signature radius per level for Minmatar ships for example? It's called... V A R I A T I O N A N D F L A V O R.
marlona, why r u such a c**t to people?
the guy was just asking why only 1 of the 4 recieved resist bonuses and why the sabres less agile than the eris.
I understand increased survivability but its like the heretics been trialed out in an artificial 'fleet interdictor' role with the resist bonus, before a shield version is considered.
As for the eris vs sabre, its been staple racial characteristics that minmatar are agile and can kite better, where as gallente have high straight line speed but poor agility. its why people are confused by the low agility of the sabre.
I'd say the sabre should have a 6 sec align time with max velocity of say 300m/sec and the eris say 325m/sec and 7sec align time. |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 02:54:00 -
[496] - Quote
Please, for the love of all that is Holy, don't mess with the Flycatcher's hi slots. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

S1euth
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 04:26:00 -
[497] - Quote
Thanks Fozzie - killing double bubble fleet fittings is a splendid surprise.
Drop the Flycatchers damage bonus for a shield resist bonus to give it a chance at catching reps or using a double ASB fit and it'll be a winner. Currently, the Sabre still has a DPS advantage and agility advantage with EHP parity because of "Winmatar t2 resists". |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1443
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 04:33:00 -
[498] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Leto Atal wrote:No way should the Sabre have such a low agility compared with the others.
Why does the Heretic have a bonus to armour resistances? All the others have bonuses to weapon systems. I've always wondered about the reasons behind giving some ships extra tank and others yet another weapon bonus.
I'd like to see more equality on bonuses for ships in the same class. Resistances aren't the only bonuses that can be applied to improve defensive capability. What about x% reduction in signature radius per level for Minmatar ships for example? It's called... V A R I A T I O N A N D F L A V O R. marlona, why r u such a c**t to people? the guy was just asking why only 1 of the 4 recieved resist bonuses and why the sabres less agile than the eris. I understand increased survivability but its like the heretics been trialed out in an artificial 'fleet interdictor' role with the resist bonus, before a shield version is considered. As for the eris vs sabre, its been staple racial characteristics that minmatar are agile and can kite better, where as gallente have high straight line speed but poor agility. its why people are confused by the low agility of the sabre. I'd say the sabre should have a 6 sec align time with max velocity of say 300m/sec and the eris say 325m/sec and 7sec align time.
afaik you got that backwards gal are agile min are faster.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
189
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 04:42:00 -
[499] - Quote
i approve of v2 changes
finnaly t2 res!
t2 res on everything that is t2!!!!! maradurs and blackops too!!!!!!! |

Meyr
SiN Corp
76
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 06:22:00 -
[500] - Quote
Fozzie - after bashing your original proposal repeatedly, you have earned the following:
THANK YOU!
While I'd really like to see one more mid on the Eris for tackle, and one more low on the Flycatcher, I can understand why you kept the current slot count.
The Eris, in particular, will now be something that can actually go and HUNT! Triple bonuses to 7 turrets! (Although, I'm perfectly willing to swap a high for a mid, if you're of a mind to...). Improved resists! Woo Hoo!
Did you have this in your pocket the whole time, and just wanted to see our reactions? Yes, I know you took away my drone - I'll manage to set aside my grief, and bravely continue on with the tools you provide.
Job well done, Sir! While I'm not completely happy (if I was, you'd probably have made a major mistake somewhere ), this goes a very long way towards making these ships something that frigates will fear seeing on D-scan, which is as it should be. |
|

Jaiimez Skor
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
85
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 06:45:00 -
[501] - Quote
I like the new changes, however yes I do agree with those saying the Flycatcher deserves a shield resistance bonus, it seems biased for armor fleets to have one and shield to not, as far as the slow layout on the flycatcher tho, I think the slot layout is fine. |

Volstruis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 06:59:00 -
[502] - Quote
I gave Fozzie a hard time earlier in this thread, so let me say this a great step forward. Limiting the boats to one launcher and sound launcher functional changes allow much more control from the devs side and those changes are great IMO.
Only feedback now is that the Flycatcher should get a tank bonus for focus in shield fleets IMO, but understand the logic as is. The rest is looking toit.
|

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1602
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 07:41:00 -
[503] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Why do all races have missile ships now?
I don't get it.. We don't see lasers or Ac's being flavour for other races :S
See!
My bitching does get things done! BYDI recruitment closed-ish |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4397
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 07:55:00 -
[504] - Quote
We should also not forget to thank the CSM. Although CCP is active in this thread and watching other forums, the CSM flagging ideas and feedback is helpful to ensure our voices are heard and ideas acted on. . |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1799
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 08:07:00 -
[505] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
As for the eris vs sabre, its been staple racial characteristics that minmatar are agile and can kite better, where as gallente have high straight line speed but poor agility. its why people are confused by the low agility of the sabre.
You have literally zero idea what you're talking about and couldn't be more wrong, as in your opinion of the way things are is exactly 100% the opposite (in both statement from CCP and actuality of ship stats) of how things really are.
|

Morwennon
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 08:16:00 -
[506] - Quote
These changes seem pretty excessive. As it stands, the new interdictors are faster than Assault Ships, and have more tank + dps than any other small weapon-using ship class. On top of that, they still have their extremely well-defined specialist role. That seems to make a complete mockery of the idea that T2 ships should be specialists rather than just being straight up better than their T1 counterparts. Dictors clearly need speed, maneuverability, tank, and survivability against larger ships to do their job, but if they have all that, it doesn't seem reasonable for them to also be the be-all and end-all of small ship combat. |

LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
52
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 08:57:00 -
[507] - Quote
I like the changes, dictors are very powerful now, maybe almost too powerful for combat role? Solution IMO is to tone down the offense a bit, drop some high slots or mess with the turret/launcher bonuses. |

Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
148
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 10:21:00 -
[508] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Alexander the Great wrote:1 minute reload is the worst thing you can do with fleet dictors. Waiting next iteration... And a one minute fire rate we have now is different because?
Because it's 30 seconds not 1 minute. And can be made even 20 seconds.
Also do you know the difference between RoF and reload, no? And how cloak affects both?
I expected more from 1337 ncdot... |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 10:29:00 -
[509] - Quote
Why do people keep suggesting nerfing the flycatcher by removing a hi slot? I thought this was a'sposed to be a buff. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

Xain deSleena
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 11:04:00 -
[510] - Quote
Why do I even have to beg for a minimum 2 low slots on the Caldari Flycatcher? You say the Sabre is the standard and it has two low slots. Then your Flycatcher is below standard in the fitting department.
For a tech 2 destroyer it should be able to have at least 2 low slots. I have been forced to cross train over to the Sabre why would I bother flying a ship that can only fit a damage control in the low slot and not get any nanofiber love?
Please consider the implications of adding a second low slot to the Flycatcher and you will find it to be more purchasable option for budding Caldari interdictor pilots. |
|

Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
116
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 11:07:00 -
[511] - Quote
+1000 for the changed changed Eris! : ) I just like Gallente ships, can't help it. |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 11:30:00 -
[512] - Quote
Xain deSleena wrote:Why do I even have to beg for a minimum 2 low slots on the Caldari Flycatcher? You say the Sabre is the standard and it has two low slots. Then your Flycatcher is below standard in the fitting department.
For a tech 2 destroyer it should be able to have at least 2 low slots. I have been forced to cross train over to the Sabre why would I bother flying a ship that can only fit a damage control in the low slot and not get any nanofiber love?
Please consider the implications of adding a second low slot to the Flycatcher and you will find it to be more purchasable option for budding Caldari interdictor pilots.
I feel your pain, believe me I do. My concern is losing a Hi to gain the second Low. I can handle losing a Med, especially with the resist goose but losing a Hi for it would hurt my game far more than help. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
806
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 11:50:00 -
[513] - Quote
Roden .. one of the most pronounced about-face's in Eve history I reckon.
Did you discuss just that or have you committed resources to fleshing out an Eve wide dogma rather than merely reacting to forum pressure whenever you miss the mark?
Flogging it once more: There once was an overarching 'theme', but it has been eroded the past few years to accommodate new hulls and tiericide even though you didn't have to .. there was ample room within the constraints of the old school for all the newness but since that time has come and gone you really ought to do tap everyone with clearance and flesh out a new paradigm. It is for your (and Eve's) own good don't you know, because if you get used to being able/allowed to change "fundamental" things to make new ideas work the design/thought part of your brains grows lazy to the detriment of everything/-one. 
Makes sense however; Gallente/Amarr having gun-hull and drone-hull peddlers (Khanid is not Amarr proper so all is well) while Caldari/Minmatar have gun-hull and missile-hull peddlers with Minmatar being on the fence as it were with their dual bonuses. |

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
369
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 12:26:00 -
[514] - Quote
I don't want to go into hysterics just yet, but it seems like these ships are going to outperform Assault Frigates in just about every area except sig radius.
As tempting as it is, power creep is not the answer. |

GeeShizzle MacCloud
376
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:00:00 -
[515] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
As for the eris vs sabre, its been staple racial characteristics that minmatar are agile and can kite better, where as gallente have high straight line speed but poor agility. its why people are confused by the low agility of the sabre.
You have literally zero idea what you're talking about and couldn't be more wrong, as in your opinion of the way things are is exactly 100% the opposite (in both statement from CCP and actuality of ship stats) of how things really are.
hmm this is why i shouldnt post about ship balancing stuff when im ridiculously tired! well played grath for a deserved ***** slap! :P |

KA3AHOBA
A0 Inc Bora Alis
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:01:00 -
[516] - Quote
Another unwanted nerf, now interdictors be garbage :( And now stels bombers cant be kill solo (with bomb) interdictos on mwd. Why this is unwanted nerf? 60 sec of reloading - big allyes now just get more interdictors in fleet to trow enought bublies, but this update kill normal small-solo-camps.
Dear DEV's, if u need work - boost Eagle - that ship need realy boost
P.S. if ships after updates is so changes - why not get chances for players to re-balance their skillpoints ? if player teach skills to fly with old-good ship but get what this ship is so changet after new patch? It be true what player get chance to rebalance they skillpoint if not need ship after re-balance.
|

Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
290
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:08:00 -
[517] - Quote
4% shield resist for the flycatcher as its bonus.
Personally I'd give the Heretic 4 lows and 2 mids as well, given its supposed to be a tanky ship, 3 low slots is not a lot to go with. 1 Damage Control, 1 Resistance Modules and or rep or plate? Not a lot of leeway for innovation there. Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |

Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:16:00 -
[518] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote: As for the eris vs sabre, its been staple racial characteristics that minmatar are agile and can kite better, where as gallente have high straight line speed but poor agility. its why people are confused by the low agility of the sabre.
You really look confused. It is exactly the oposite. Speed: Minmatar > Galente Agility: Galente > Minmatar
The complains about what have been happening with some Minmatar ships are:
- Base speed advantage of Minmatar ships does not exist anymore thanks to the hilarious extra mass.
- Being the least agile of them all is very strange for the race that was all about speed and hit and run tactics.
Long time ago, MInmatar had everything: speed + agility + less mass. Some time ago, Mass and agility changed: Minmatar still had the speed, not the rest. Now with more mass and agility nerfs Minmatar doesn't even have the speed advantage anymore. Ex: Base speed Rupture is faster than the Vexor, slap an MWD to both, now Vexor is well... everything more then the Rupture.
All races have kiting/brawlers/brick ships, everything is a big mess, race *flavour* and identity is disappearing, only thing left are *some* weapon systems. They didn't gave blasters to amarr hulls and lasers to Minmatar yet but at this pace I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing it. After all, killing all racial perks will make the game easier to balance, it's the easy way out.
|

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
357
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:25:00 -
[519] - Quote
Hooray for the Eris...finally it makes sense. I like the bubble launcher now too - at a glance the interdictors now look much better. Cheers. |

GeeShizzle MacCloud
376
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:43:00 -
[520] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote: As for the eris vs sabre, its been staple racial characteristics that minmatar are agile and can kite better, where as gallente have high straight line speed but poor agility. its why people are confused by the low agility of the sabre.
You really look confused. It is exactly the oposite.
yup thats what a realllllly late night does to me... its not pretty! Grath did point it out to me :P lol!
|
|

Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
201
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:50:00 -
[521] - Quote
I'm ok with the dps changes on these ships.
They do allot of damage now, or at least have the potential to. Ok in retrospect Assault Frigates might have an issue with them.
That is fine.
These are based off the destroyer hulls, which are generally not overly used except for microfleets or ganking freighters. These interdictors can be run solo, can be run in a gang, can be run in a fleet, and they aren't dusted off the field in 3 seconds.
They may have become too strong based on the ability for them to kite and potentially kill larger targets.
Again, fine with that.
The real fear with people using these is not the assault frigate or cruiser players....
Its the people in the capitals, supercapitals and titans....
Nullsec and wormhole space just got more dangerous for cap pilots...
And on the flycatcher, has anybody actually fit out one yet with the new changes? I hear people complaining about the single low... but has anybody actually tried/fit it yet? Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|

GeeShizzle MacCloud
376
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 14:02:00 -
[522] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote: ...
And on the flycatcher, has anybody actually fit out one yet with the new changes? I hear people complaining about the single low... but has anybody actually tried/fit it yet?
just finished adding the new changes to my EveHQ and have this as a quick mock up
[Rubicon Flycatcher, Rubicon shield Fleet]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Interdiction Sphere Launcher I Prototype Cloaking Device I 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Core Defense Field Extender I
9,6k ehp tank omni 2.6km/sec mwd on (3.7km/sec OH) fairly even resists - ie no gaping holes 139 DPS with 15km range
obviously you can reduce agility/speed to add dps or reduce agility/speed & dps for higher tank but its very workable currently imho i cant see it being a high DPS platform with only 1 low, though with light missiles it might be a good kiter. |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 14:41:00 -
[523] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:
And on the flycatcher, has anybody actually fit out one yet with the new changes? I hear people complaining about the single low... but has anybody actually tried/fit it yet?
I once wished for a second low (not in this thread), but both V1 and V2 changes are more than enough to make me a happy pilot.
I support flycatcher v2. A lot. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

KA3AHOBA
A0 Inc Bora Alis
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:18:00 -
[524] - Quote
Fix Black Ops
>Note: can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generators and Covert Jump Portal Generators
Why Black Ops cant be fitted with Covert cloaking device and warp in cloak ??? That is like stels bombers without cloak warping.....
Blackbird have cheap price and much more range of jammers and good jammers power but Falcon have biggest price + low range + not so jamm power+no tank+targeting penalty after de cloack !!! :(
Why All Force Recons have penalty after de cloaking ???
|

Sigras
Conglomo
534
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:43:00 -
[525] - Quote
KA3AHOBA wrote:Fix Black Ops
>Note: can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generators and Covert Jump Portal Generators
Why Black Ops cant be fitted with Covert cloaking device and warp in cloak ??? That is like stels bombers without cloak warping.....
Blackbird have cheap price and much more range of jammers and good jammers power but Falcon have biggest price + low range + not so jamm power+no tank+targeting penalty after de cloack !!! :(
Why All Force Recons have penalty after de cloaking ???
1. Really off topic 2. because warping cloaked wouldnt fix any of the problems that black ops ships have and would actually introduce some new ones. 3. are you really arguing that the falcon is under powered? |

Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 17:31:00 -
[526] - Quote
Rapid launch bomber launcher please.
Thanks. |

Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
164
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:14:00 -
[527] - Quote
Why is the cap regen for all the dictors the same? The Eris has by far the largest cap draw. It's the same for interceptors where the Crusader has by far the largest cap draw.
In other news, the Eris pumps out huge >300dps before heat in its bubble, more than a Catalyst. I'm guessing it will be the most popular dictor. I'm also fearing that dictors will be a straight upgrade for T1 destroyers, even if you don't care about the bubble.
|

Imigo Montoya
Abraxsys Get Off My Lawn
116
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 19:24:00 -
[528] - Quote
Loving the v2 changes. Thanks. |

Samara Anninen
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 21:59:00 -
[529] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Finally we're also updating the Eris weapon systems to match the latest version of the Roden flavour.
Maybe Nemesis and Eris should swap the manufacturers? IMHO, it would be more logical from lore side if missiles-using SB would be produced by Roden (who prefer missiles) while blasters-using dictor would be produced by leading blaster manufacturer (Duvolle). |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
427
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:14:00 -
[530] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Why is the cap regen for all the dictors the same? The Eris has by far the largest cap draw. It's the same for interceptors where the Crusader has by far the largest cap draw.
In other news, the Eris pumps out huge >300dps before heat in its bubble, more than a Catalyst. I'm guessing it will be the most popular dictor. I'm also fearing that dictors will be a straight upgrade for T1 destroyers, even if you don't care about the bubble.
The speed is the main thing for me. Dictors move at sensible speeds, but destroyers and AFs are lol slow for some reason.
Also the cap thing is the same on all ships - ships that need more cap don't actually get more cap, meaning amarr suck at cap warfare and minmatar have neuts everywhere because they have normal cap recharge, despite having no modules that actually use it (lol ASBs). |
|

Gallastian Khanid
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:30:00 -
[531] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:I'm ok with the dps changes on these ships.
They do allot of damage now, or at least have the potential to. Ok in retrospect Assault Frigates might have an issue with them.
That is fine.
These are based off the destroyer hulls, which are generally not overly used except for microfleets or ganking freighters. These interdictors can be run solo, can be run in a gang, can be run in a fleet, and they aren't dusted off the field in 3 seconds.
They may have become too strong based on the ability for them to kite and potentially kill larger targets.
Again, fine with that.
The real fear with people using these is not the assault frigate or cruiser players....
Its the people in the capitals, supercapitals and titans....
Nullsec and wormhole space just got more dangerous for cap pilots...
And on the flycatcher, has anybody actually fit out one yet with the new changes? I hear people complaining about the single low... but has anybody actually tried/fit it yet?
Current Flycatcher has only 1 low. It is still a strong Dictor with a lot of niche roles. Having a gazillion mids means you can fit a mean shield tank on a Flycatcher.
|

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:55:00 -
[532] - Quote
Dictors... giggle  ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

Hairpins Blueprint
Paragraph 22 Aureus Alae
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 11:53:00 -
[533] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Interdictors v2 ahoy!
We're going a bit more radical with the updated rebalance on these ships, incorporating a few good ideas from the community and making changes to the sphere launchers as well as the ships themselves.
The biggest change is to the Interdiction Sphere Launcher itself. We're removing the reactivation delay, and instead giving the Launcher a smaller three bubble magazine, 5 second cycle time and one minute reload time (like the ASB). Interdiction Sphere Launchers will then be limited to one per ship. This will mean that pilots will be able to launch three bubbles in quick succession and then wait 60 seconds for the reload, or choose to save their bubbles and launch one at a time to avoid the reload for as long as possible. The limit to one per ship will allow more practical fitting options for fleet dictors instead of forcing everyone into partially fit flying coffins, and fits well with the general survivability increases that are the second part of the v2 changes.
With the bubble reactivation delay gone, the shared Interdictors skill bonus is no longer needed and will be replaced with a 10% per level reduction in MWD signature radius penalty (at level 5 this gives the same benefit as the AF or HAC role bonus). We're also giving the dictors another slight bump in base HP and upgrading their T2 resists to the same level enjoyed by EAFs. Combined these changes should make it a lot more realistic for good interdictor pilots to stay on field for longer periods of time.
Since they are gaining such significant survivability benefits we are going to slightly pull back the speed at which they can enter the field, via a decrease in warp speed from 8au/s in the first proposal to 6.75au/s in this one (same speed as most T2 frigates). We are also toning down the agility changes on the Sabre and Heretic, to the slight benefit of the Sabre and slight detriment of the Heretic.
Finally we're also updating the Eris weapon systems to match the latest version of the Roden flavour. It will be a pure hybrid boat, with bonuses to optimal, tracking and damage. This matches the theme of the Ares and our plans for future rebalances of Roden Shipyards vessels.
Now thats SUPERB : best changes to interdictors you could do \o/ |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2547
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 13:13:00 -
[534] - Quote
Samara Anninen wrote:Maybe Nemesis and Eris should swap the manufacturers? IMHO, it would be more logical from lore side if missiles-using SB would be produced by Roden (who prefer missiles) while blasters-using dictor would be produced by leading blaster manufacturer (Duvolle). I think the point here is that Roden's backstory is switching them from missiles to railguns. Considering the expansion of the Minmatar missile ship range and the expansion of the Khanid theme to cover long as well as short ranged missiles, we don't need Roden muscling in on that territory as well and rails make more sense. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 14:36:00 -
[535] - Quote
very good revision "V2".
But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.
for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
137
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:49:00 -
[536] - Quote
Alghara wrote:very good revision "V2".
But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.
for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris If you prefer the slot layout of the Eris then fly the Eris. Choices man, choices. Racial destroyer V only takes about a week. |

Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 20:12:00 -
[537] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Alghara wrote:very good revision "V2".
But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.
for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris If you prefer the slot layout of the Eris then fly the Eris. Choices man, choices. Racial destroyer V only takes about a week.
i can fly all race it's not a problem.
But 3 slot for dps and tanking is really short.
|

Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 20:31:00 -
[538] - Quote
Alghara wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Alghara wrote:very good revision "V2".
But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.
for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris If you prefer the slot layout of the Eris then fly the Eris. Choices man, choices. Racial destroyer V only takes about a week. i can fly all race it's not a problem. But 3 slot for dps and tanking is really short.
Odd...
Last I checked, an interdictor's role in a fleet isn't DPS...
Oh! You're talking about being an ******* and gate camping to trap shuttles and t1 frigates.
Bring a friend? |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
139
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 20:49:00 -
[539] - Quote
Alghara wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Alghara wrote:very good revision "V2".
But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.
for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris If you prefer the slot layout of the Eris then fly the Eris. Choices man, choices. Racial destroyer V only takes about a week. i can fly all race it's not a problem. But 3 slot for dps and tanking is really short. Actually I would think that being able to fit the standard MWD/web/scam would make the ship more useful as a tackler in a small gate camp than being able to fit another damage or tank mod on a destroyer hull would. A ship for each style I guess. Then again I don't do gate camps as I find them boring. |

S1euth
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 00:48:00 -
[540] - Quote
Syri Taneka wrote:
(especially the poor Flycatcher, which basically has to choose between more damage or a DC II (which isn't really a choice at all = P)).
The Flycatchers choice is between a nano or a co-processor II; Flycatcher pilots dream of the day when they can choose between a BCS or DC II. |
|

Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
89
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 03:43:00 -
[541] - Quote
S1euth wrote:Syri Taneka wrote:
(especially the poor Flycatcher, which basically has to choose between more damage or a DC II (which isn't really a choice at all = P)).
The Flycatchers choice is between a nano or a co-processor II; Flycatcher pilots dream of the day when they can choose between a BCS or DC II.
IF you want to fit a cloak and weapons. IMO if you're setup to cloak, you should not also be engaging, and vice-a-versa. (It gets a little tight with tank regardless, but you can fit a DC II easily enough with the new stats (remember, of course, that the new fitting restrictions will not allow dual-bubble fits, so there's 100 CPU freed up = P).
I still want my 42km Javelin Rocket Flycatcher back! |

Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:04:00 -
[542] - Quote
sorry but when you check the tanking.
The best interdictor for tanking is flycatcher. because with 5 slot of tanking is the king, and also you have some better chance to survive if you have also some logi with you (repair in the beginning of the cycle).
4 med tanking and one low (damage control). The last med is for prop.
When you tank in shield and you had some buffer you increase your sig but your speed and agility is still the same, it's not the case with armor.
Active tanking. Active shield tanking is also more interesting, because in the same module you have the tanking and the cap booster. It's not the case with armor, you need to have enough cap to run the ancillary armor.
Pls change the heretic slot.
2 medium 4 low
|

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
738
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 20:30:00 -
[543] - Quote
After doing some fiddling in EFT, I'd say that most of the dictors could use more CPU. The Heretic and the Eris in particular could use a LOT of CPU: neither of them is really capable of doing a respectable cloaking dictor fit: the Heretic has to use autocannons because launchers suck too many resources, and the Eris can't fit any serious armor mods (only adaptive nano platings) if you fit even the smallest blasters to it. Kind of disappointing since the Sabre and Flycatcher can both run these sorts of fits with minimal drama-- just downsize the guns on the Sabre to free up resources and add an overclocking rig on the Flycatcher. The Heretic and Eris are way, way, way worse on fitting.
I think you guys have done a great job making the Sabre more playable and have really made the Flycatcher a viable alternative to the Sabre-- they have different strengths now, but each is superior to the other at something and both make compelling ships; good job-- but I feel like the Heretic could use a little more CPU and the Eris just kind of struggles generally.
Here's my issue with the Eris:
- it has an inflexible slot layout (armor tank or nothing) - it has no resist bonus, so it will never be very tanky - when you armor tank it, it starts getting too slow to speedtank well or do it's job well (you need to put a nano or two on it to get it to handle well enough) - it suffers from poor fitting just like before: you get another low slot over a Heretic, but you don't have the CPU to do anything useful with it (the Eris has the same problem on TQ currently-- it supposedly offers a superior slot layout for armor tanking, but since the fourth low needs to be a co-processor in order for the ship to mount the same fits the Heretic can, the slot is effectively nulled out)
So far, the only thing I can find that the Eris does better than the other 3 dictors is an all-gank fit: if you fit it like a big Taranis (no cloak, best-named damage control for a tank, neutrons, scram, mwd, 1 MFS, 2 nanos... and 2 CPU rigs :\ ) then it gets a slightly higher combat rating than the other dictors in EFT (just over 400 dps with faction antimatter, ~4,900 EHP). If you want to do things like fit a cloak or fit any kind of respectable tank while still being fast enough to decloak things, this ship is pretty lame.
Bottom line: I would fitting stats on the Heretic and Eris. IMHO the ships should have enough CPU / grid to mount a fit that consists of a cloak, bubble launcher, rack of their bonused weapons (preferably downsized, although I guess there's no way for you to do this with the Heretic since there are no "smaller" rocket launchers-- maybe make it so it can fit rockets but not lights? IDK), and a basic tank of the type the ship is biased towards (armor and armor here). The Eris could use a little more mobility as well (ideally in the form of a bonus that reduces the negative impacts of armor plates, which would let you be fast with a buffer tank while not making DC / AAR tanked variants stupidly fast and agile).
This reminds me of another paradigm I noticed when theorycrafting TQ dictors a while back: you guys should find a way to offset the speed disadvantages of armor-tanked ships IMHO, especially at this ship size. What I found looking at armor / afterburner vs shield / MWD fits a while back was that at the end of the day nothing did appreciably better than a Sabre in terms of sig/speed tanking because the decreased sig of amor-based ships was always offset by their lower speeds. Shield tanking has a lot of innate advantages (passive recharge when out of combat, further damage mitigation through passive recharge on buffer fits while IN combat, etc), and front-loaded reps are especially advantageous for small ships. There should be compelling reasons to consider an armor dictor over a shield dictor other than "well, we're running an armor fleet and all our reps will be armor reps, so we'll bring an armor dictor in this specific case even though shield ones are better."
I feel like I'm getting off topic and my thoughts are very disorganized today, so I'll stop now, but yeah: great job on the Sabre / Flycatcher, and more CPU on the Eris and Heretic please! |

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
739
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 21:13:00 -
[544] - Quote
Maybe swap the slots on the Heretic / Eris? Heretic: 4 lows, 2 mids, resist bonus; Eris: 3 lows, 3 mids, no resist bonus? That would certainly fit better with the overall positioning of Amarr / Gallente, with Amarr being the armor bricktank with no mids and Gallente being the gank-oriented setup that can field an underwhelming shield or armor tank depending on the preferences of the user... |

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
31
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 14:33:00 -
[545] - Quote
I love how the Sabre has the best speed, agility, a sub-300 signature, full rack of guns, and a tank only slightly worse than the Flycatcher, while all the other Interdictors have to use Co-Processorts and CPU/PG rigs to fit everything, and end up nowhere near the Sabre =P |

Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
166
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:51:00 -
[546] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote: This reminds me of another paradigm I noticed when theorycrafting TQ dictors a while back: you guys should find a way to offset the speed disadvantages of armor-tanked ships IMHO, especially at this ship size.
The Eris used to be more mobile but then the Sabre crowd got angry with this. My personal issue is the cap regen is the same for all dessies while only the Eris has cap drawing weapons. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
143
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:32:00 -
[547] - Quote
And a sig the size of some battleships, 353m. If the Heretic and its 263m sig had a 4th low slot it would be OP. |

Rockstara
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
32
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:37:00 -
[548] - Quote
has the redesigned bubble launching module been designed with the capability to eventually put it into a covert cyno capable bubbler? That is a ship class that is currently missing and I could see being added in the future - would the module support that. I could easily see wanting such a ship to modify the bubble launcher say to only hold one charge for instance. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
143
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:41:00 -
[549] - Quote
Rockstara wrote:has the redesigned bubble launching module been designed with the capability to eventually put it into a covert cyno capable bubbler? That is a ship class that is currently missing and I could see being added in the future - would the module support that. I could easily see wanting such a ship to modify the bubble launcher say to only hold one charge for instance. Black Ops drops are already powerful enough IMO. |

Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 20:39:00 -
[550] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:And a sig the size of some battleships, 353m. If the Heretic and its 263m sig had a 4th low slot it would be OP.
The heretic is more interesting with plate when you add some plate the best fiiting is afterburner and not mwd.
Because your speed and agility is not terrible and small drone are very efficiency against you.
with flycatcher the sig is more important but your speed is very interesting and the buffer also. You can also use the shield ancillary without to have problem with you capacitor, this is not the case with armor ancillary.
Armor dictor need a little more tanking because :
remote armor is End of cycle.
plate reduce the speed and agility.
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
143
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 21:09:00 -
[551] - Quote
Alghara wrote:The heretic is more interesting with plate when you add some plate the best fiiting is afterburner and not mwd.
Because your speed and agility is not terrible and small drone are very efficiency against you.
with flycatcher the sig is more important but your speed is very interesting and the buffer also. You can also use the shield ancillary without to have problem with you capacitor, this is not the case with armor ancillary.
Armor dictor need a little more tanking because :
remote armor is End of cycle.
plate reduce the speed and agility.
I disagree, I think the Heretic will be an excellent armor fleet interdictor with these changes. How about we let people actually use them on TQ with the new bonuses before we start declaring AB to be totally superior to MWD in every situation despite the wasted hull bonus?
A 400mm plated Heretic should go 2150m/s vs your Flycatcher's 2389m/s with a 90m smaller sig and roughly equivalent resists. It will have a smaller buffer and a bit less agility but it also gets to fit a full rack of T2 rocket launchers to kill drones and other small stuff. I think that sounds pretty well balanced.
If it really does need more tank then should get some more raw EHP. Not a fourth low slot. |

Resi Kaae
Anatidae Rising
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 21:33:00 -
[552] - Quote
Is there any reason why Interdictors need to be a lot more agile/faster than Destroyers and slightly more agile faster than AF's? |

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
369
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 22:12:00 -
[553] - Quote
Resi Kaae wrote:Is there any reason why Interdictors need to be a lot more agile/faster than Destroyers and slightly more agile faster than AF's?
Seriously, though. Interdictors are going to render AFs functionally obsolete and crap all over the small ship meta. People will still use AFs because they're a significantly shorter train and a bit cheaper, but interdictors are going to go faster, hit harder, and tank more. Assault frigates' only notional advantage, sig radius, doesn't actually count for as much as you might think due to how the tracking formula works. |

Resi Kaae
Anatidae Rising
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 23:29:00 -
[554] - Quote
I agree with you mostly except sig radius counts for a lot when you can dictate the engagement due to higher mobility and/or better ewar, you won't be dictating many engagements in an AF versus an Interdictor.
They're still quite speedy now, but that's balanced out by the AF's superior combat capability, an advantage which AF's will no longer have after these changes. You can't have a ship class that's nearly the best at everything in an environment where it will be popular.
I'm all in favour of giving the Interdictors more tank and the MWD sig radius bonus to make them more survivable in larger engagements, but now they have those boosts they no longer need to be as fast so as not to upset the solo/small gang frigate environment.
The Interdictos as proposed but with Destroyer manoeuvrability would still be perfectly viable for fleet engagements and an attractive option for solo/small gang frig warfare while still having exploitable weaknesses for wary pilots. |

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
369
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 01:16:00 -
[555] - Quote
Quote:I agree with you mostly except sig radius counts for a lot when you can dictate the engagement due to higher mobility and/or better ewar, you won't be dictating many engagements in an AF versus an Interdictor. It does matter quite a lot under the right circumstances, but they're not particularly relevant to most of the situations where you'd be choosing between a dictor and AF. |

Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
193
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 01:54:00 -
[556] - Quote
CCP, do not listen to these guys saying give the heretic 2 mids and 4 lows. we already have a retribution we dont need another. plz god do not do that.
i would be ok with 1 mid and 5 lows on heretic if you made scripts for the interdictor bubbles so they could do some pointing in lowsec of sorts |

Mazzara
Gale Force Contractors Dark Anarchists
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 03:34:00 -
[557] - Quote
Maennas Vaer wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:Why are we seeing an Eris with split weapon bonuses? I thought the new Roden would be able to fit either/or, not be compelled to fit both. With only 4 turrets and 4 launchers, one is forced to use split weapons. At least with 5 turrets you could fit a cloak and 2 sphere launchers and have a single weapon system. Now with that set up, we'll be forced to fit an oddball launcher or turret.
Please fix the hardpoint mounts to not force Eris pilots to use split weapons. You guys phased it out of Minmatar T1, made a GREAT way to choose which weapon system you wanted for other split weapon ships (namely Minmatar Fleet Issues), and fixed the Ares' Roden bonuses for either/or. Now, you have a throwback, old-style split weapons system on the Eris.
It really should be a ship (and indeed the whole Roden line) that lets you choose which weapons system you want to use instead of only 4 of each weapon hardpoint. It's not even about damage output. Balance that around having all of one weapon on the ship. It's about optimal range/max flight time, instant weapon damage, etc. This is a step backward, Fozzie. This.
I agree |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8143

|
Posted - 2013.11.05 16:10:00 -
[558] - Quote
One more tweak to agility and mass. Slows down the Heretic slightly while using a prop mod, and brings their agility into a bit of a more balanced place relative to their combat competition like AFs.
Heretic: Mass: 1305000 (+25000) Agility: 3.7 (+0.13)
Flycatcher: Agility: 3.6 (+0.2)
Eris: Agility: 3.7 (+0.18)
Sabre: Agility: 3.7 (+0.17) |
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Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
308
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 17:10:00 -
[559] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, I wouldn't mind you not giving so many Caldari ships, like the flycatch a resistance bonus, when their Amarr equivalent do, if you fixed the blatant issue of a faction invul costing 350m. The faction drops for shield parts are half that of armor, thus the costs.
Traditionally speaking, Caldari have been to shields tanking, what amarr are to armor tanking. You can't ignore that to get similar buffer numbers a flycatchers signature will be far larger than the heretics, and therefore as a fleet fit support ship, it is far poorer, and given the typical slow caldari speeds, its not like mass from plates makes quite the same difference anymore. |

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
588
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 17:17:00 -
[560] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:One more tweak to agility and mass. Slows down the Heretic slightly while using a prop mod, and brings their agility into a bit of a more balanced place relative to their combat competition like AFs.
Heretic: Mass: 1305000 (+25000) Agility: 3.7 (+0.13)
Flycatcher: Agility: 3.6 (+0.2)
Eris: Agility: 3.7 (+0.18)
Sabre: Agility: 3.7 (+0.17)
are there going to be any more changes? the sig radius of these ships still needs work and the slot layouts also still need work |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
429
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 17:40:00 -
[561] - Quote
Moonaura wrote:CCP Fozzie, I wouldn't mind you not giving so many Caldari ships, like the flycatch a resistance bonus, when their Amarr equivalent do, if you fixed the blatant issue of a faction invul costing 350m. The reason shield faction parts are so expensive -typically twice that of armor modules, is that the number of factions dropping shield tanking parts are quite literally - half that of factions dropping armor modules, thus the costs. In the next expansion as part of the rebalancing, can we have more factions dropping shield tanking modules please?
Traditionally speaking, Caldari have been to shields tanking, what amarr are to armor tanking. You can't ignore that to get similar buffer numbers a flycatchers signature will be far larger than the heretics, and therefore as a fleet fit support ship, it is far poorer, its not like mass from plates makes quite the same difference anymore.
Caldari are the kiting race now. |

Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
308
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 19:59:00 -
[562] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Moonaura wrote:CCP Fozzie, I wouldn't mind you not giving so many Caldari ships, like the flycatch a resistance bonus, when their Amarr equivalent do, if you fixed the blatant issue of a faction invul costing 350m. The reason shield faction parts are so expensive -typically twice that of armor modules, is that the number of factions dropping shield tanking parts are quite literally - half that of factions dropping armor modules, thus the costs. In the next expansion as part of the rebalancing, can we have more factions dropping shield tanking modules please?
Traditionally speaking, Caldari have been to shields tanking, what amarr are to armor tanking. You can't ignore that to get similar buffer numbers a flycatchers signature will be far larger than the heretics, and therefore as a fleet fit support ship, it is far poorer, its not like mass from plates makes quite the same difference anymore. Caldari are the kiting race now.
Somebody better let the minmitar know. For solo or small gangs perhaps kiting is fine, but once you get into anything involving Logistics and brawling, kiting isn't worth anything. The Vulture bonuses were also laughable given its role compared to the Damnation. |

Resi Kaae
Anatidae Rising
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 11:38:00 -
[563] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:One more tweak to agility and mass. Slows down the Heretic slightly while using a prop mod, and brings their agility into a bit of a more balanced place relative to their combat competition like AFs.
Heretic: Mass: 1305000 (+25000) Agility: 3.7 (+0.13)
Flycatcher: Agility: 3.6 (+0.2)
Eris: Agility: 3.7 (+0.18)
Sabre: Agility: 3.7 (+0.17)
Doesn't quite go far enough, imo, but glad you see the manoeuvrability as a potential problem in certain environments. |

Iku'turso
The Suicide Kings Insidious Empire
17
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:21:00 -
[564] - Quote
Any chance of changing the Flycatcher's kinetic damage bonus? I thought Caldari ships were supposed to be moving away from it; a lesser bonus (like 5%) for all missile damage or a rate of fire bonus instead would make the ship much more flexible. I was thinking of using it for some high sec work on an alt but the kinetic only damage really hurts. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
151
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:40:00 -
[565] - Quote
Missile boats that aren't locked into kinetic damage is more of a Minmatar and to some extent an Amarr T2 thing. The trade off is that they don't generally do as much raw DPS as the equivalent Caldari kinetic missile boat. Although the Raven and Navy Drake do stand out as notable exceptions.
Besides, its not like damage types matter all that much in PvP anyway as everyone more or less omni tanks their ships. You weren't going to use an interdictor for PvE where you? |

Iku'turso
The Suicide Kings Insidious Empire
17
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 00:15:00 -
[566] - Quote
The rebalanced interdictors make pretty decent high sec explorers. A decent slot layout combined with t2 resists and small sig, they will outperform assault frigates in high sec DED sites. The kinetic damage bonus isn't a huge problem except on one particular plex where the overseer has 80% kinetic resists and the Flycatcher simply can't break it's tank without using another damage type (and even then only barely).
I realize interdictors have traditionally been PVP only ships, but as they stand on Sisi they can definitely fill a (albeit niche) role for PVE. |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
134
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 13:06:00 -
[567] - Quote
Iku'turso wrote:The rebalanced interdictors make pretty decent high sec explorers. A decent slot layout combined with t2 resists and small sig, they will outperform assault frigates in high sec DED sites. The kinetic damage bonus isn't a huge problem except on one particular plex where the overseer has 80% kinetic resists and the Flycatcher simply can't break it's tank without using another damage type (and even then only barely).
I realize interdictors have traditionally been PVP only ships, but as they stand on Sisi they can definitely fill a (albeit niche) role for PVE.
Um, bring a rack or two of a different damage type? Seriously, if only "one particular plex" is the problem, and you already have the solution... |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1287
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 13:51:00 -
[568] - Quote
Have flown these for a while, if the player skills are a major factor to decently pilot/use these pesky little things, their survivability on the other hand is pretty awful and can quickly burn 99% players trying this specific game play very hard to master.
I'll miss the double bubble paper tank dictor only because of the double bubble, never because of it's tank.
This new 3 bubble clip with a 60sec reload timer makes it a bit "weird", increase it up to 5 clip wouldn't hurt even if these won in tank it only profits in smaller/solo engagements, in big fights these are still the main target of anti support wings and will pop easily after spewing their 3 bble stuff. The 5 clip change would actually help them jump in, pop a bble or two while running OH for their life, eventually manage to gtfo and drop again for another bble run before the 60sec timer.
With the 3 bble clip, despite the obvious tank reinforcement but also the agility/mass nerf, it will only require more Dictors but their survivability will still be the same in big fights (because of alpha) and thats why its rather hard to get pilots doing it, it's such an interesting role but also such a fast ticket home you guys need to actually get another approach of it imho.
Again, adding or increasing their firepower is ok for small/solo engagements, in big fights? - the guy better fit another extender or hardeners instead (I don't fit a single gun in my latest ones because worthless) There are two support ships that don't need a single firepower unit: logistics and light dictors. They need speed, agility, tank and rep/bble power.
Logistics are ok, hell a bit more than just ok, we can safely say those are pretty close to op even. Light dictors, but it's just my opinion, could use of extra tank/tackle/ewar slots instead of firepower, just remove completely all guns and let them use cover ops cloak (only light dictors) with 5 sec targeting delay cause they don't need it anyway, their job is to poop bbles but poop them wisely, not to bring 250 miserable dps on the table for the best of them in this department (Sabre). Also, the covert ops cloaking ability in exchange of fire power would make this role so much more interesting and pesky to deal with then just drop arty canes/SFI (+10% tracking p/lvl) . A bit like the Bomber, pesky dumbass thing it's either too late when you see it or just another KM if the guys does it wrong (and uncloak/bble will still leave it a few sec inside his own bble, so not OP at all)
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
589
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 13:58:00 -
[569] - Quote
more tank less gank comes to mind here... i.e. remove some highs for tanking slots and buff HP further.. |

Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
169
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 12:45:00 -
[570] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:more tank less gank comes to mind here... i.e. remove some highs for tanking slots and buff HP further.. You mean a Hictor? |
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
280
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 17:15:00 -
[571] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Harvey James wrote:more tank less gank comes to mind here... i.e. remove some highs for tanking slots and buff HP further.. You mean a Hictor?
Buffing a ship to not die in one volley does not make it a hictor.
If the Heretic is getting armour resist bonuses, the rest should get comparable resist, hp or sig radius bonuses. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
160
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 17:23:00 -
[572] - Quote
xttz wrote:If the Heretic is getting armour resist bonuses, the rest should get comparable resist, hp or sig radius bonuses. Or maybe a speed/mass bonus? Wait... |

Romar Thel
Mythos Corp Nulli Secunda
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:47:00 -
[573] - Quote
Nice boost although sabre is getting somehow slower...
Only thing is that this bubble... can stop less ships with the new interceptor bonus. |

Case Hakuli
Rat Collection Agency
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 15:21:00 -
[574] - Quote
MWD sig bonus should be a role bonus / second interdictor skill bonus should be a combat bonus |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
137
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 13:48:00 -
[575] - Quote
Gave my flycatcher a test drive on Singularity last night.
Drooooool..... ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |

ilammy
27
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 22:17:00 -
[576] - Quote
I don't see any mention of Bubbal Launcher in the latest patchnotes. Is it left unchanged? Or just forgotten? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8400

|
Posted - 2013.11.18 09:23:00 -
[577] - Quote
ilammy wrote:I don't see any mention of Bubbal Launcher in the latest patchnotes. Is it left unchanged? Or just forgotten?
Missed from that version of the patchnotes. I'll get it corrected. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Bill Saisima
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 19:24:00 -
[578] - Quote
Downloading the patch... ah well apparently i missed some info among the myriads of uninteresting changes. I already knew the sabre is getting nerfed but a general dictor nerf, that radical, wow, that really blows. |

Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 07:25:00 -
[579] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:xttz wrote:If the Heretic is getting armour resist bonuses, the rest should get comparable resist, hp or sig radius bonuses. Or maybe a speed/mass bonus? Wait...
the heretic is dead with this patch. not enough CPU or power grid, if you would like put the light missile launcher.
With the slot 3 medium 3 low. you can't make dps.
You have a bonus on armor bonus but with only three low you are not better than eris (less dps tanking, the sig is a little better).
This dictor is not balanced.
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whaynethepain
65
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 07:55:00 -
[580] - Quote
Dunno, I think interceptor bubble immunity is wtfbppop overpowered, and not really role related or that necessary because of speed and agility.
I think Interdictior bubble immunity is very befitting of role and would give survivability as well as an interesting new dynamic to the game.
I imagine a spider caught in it's own web, and the gnat just flying on through, wtfbpop indeed.
Anyhow, yup Eve Online is still going strong, brilliant new update, told all my mates at work about the new expansion, happy days.
Best of luck for the future Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |
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Bowbndr
The Chive The Methodical Alliance
7
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Posted - 2013.12.05 14:37:00 -
[581] - Quote
I would have to say I have a totally different outlook on the changes to these ships. My first look at them in their new form was when I saw the impossible. Well apparently the impossible anywhere but in EVE. I watched an interceptor gang take on a Battle cruiser fleet 3 times its size and not only win but totally annialated the battle cruiser fleet. Contrary to what everyone in here seems to believe a spider that wonGÇÖt get caught in their own web, will most defiantly get caught in another spiderGÇÖs web if it ventures there.
Furthermore I would really like to know how you justify nullifying the interdictor, who by definition is meant to catch others, not evade others traps themselves, and yet NOT nullify the blockade runners whose description clearly states that its designed roll is to get through such things?
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
633
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:43:00 -
[582] - Quote
Bowbndr wrote:I would have to say I have a totally different outlook on the changes to these ships. My first look at them in their new form was when I saw the impossible. Well apparently the impossible anywhere but in EVE. I watched an interceptor gang take on a Battle cruiser fleet 3 times its size and not only win but totally annialated the battle cruiser fleet. Contrary to what everyone in here seems to believe a spider that wonGÇÖt get caught in their own web, will most defiantly get caught in another spiderGÇÖs web if it ventures there.
Furthermore I would really like to know how you justify nullifying the interdictor, who by definition is meant to catch others, not evade others traps themselves, and yet NOT nullify the blockade runners whose description clearly states that its designed roll is to get through such things?
Because to bubble someone you have to bubble yourself, which can be suicide. So the interdictor would have a LOT more survivability if you weren't stuck in your own bubble, because you could drop a bubble on a fleet and get the **** off grid before you got blapped.
....the combination of raw speed and nullifaction on the ceptors, while amazing, is a bit over the top. |
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