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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2011.11.21 17:18:00 -
[871] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Rip Minner wrote:Both the Naga and Talos are on about even ground. But I too would have liked a 4th weapon system persent here other then 2xHybirds. And damn if the Caldari dont realy need some kind of tech 1 ship that can at least fit 8xBattle Ship Missiles anyway. You do, it's called the Golem. 4xML with 100% dmg. = 8 slots. Rip Minner and others in this thread.. you are idiots. blaster/armor ship is not the same as a shield/rail ship. 2 different weapons, the only thing shared is the ammo, and the skills required to use t1 sets. Blasters and rails are not the same. The guns aren't hybrid, the ammunition is.
Golem's T2.
Also what about rails/armor and blasters/shield? These setups exist too. Shield/blasters is not the same as armor/blasters. |
Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos BricK sQuAD.
150
|
Posted - 2011.11.21 17:37:00 -
[872] - Quote
Did Carebeari players whine this much when the Rokh was introduced? |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
136
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Posted - 2011.11.21 17:41:00 -
[873] - Quote
Aglais wrote: Golem's T2.
Also what about rails/armor and blasters/shield? These setups exist too. Shield/blasters is not the same as armor/blasters.
ok, so not T2 you don't. Tell me what the huge deal is between 7 and 8 launchers, to where you would want to justify having 2 battlecruisers that are missile based, and one that only has 6 turrets?
Tell me, What is the difference between these two ships
It makes no difference if the bonuses are alike, when you have completely different mass, speeds, and slot layouts. Holy crap you all still look at less than half the picture here. |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
137
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Posted - 2011.11.21 17:56:00 -
[874] - Quote
Daedalus Arcova wrote:Did Carebeari players whine this much when the Rokh was introduced?
What is sad is that I'm reading the comments from Tuxford's Devblog when the stats of the Tier 3 BSs were released. We had such high hopes.
By the way, before I post quotes I want to remind the people here that the last time Caldari got a rail boat was 2006. Over 5 years ago!!
I love some of these gems though
From 2006 wrote:There is now absolutely no reason to ever use a Megathron or a Tempest ever again.
There is nothing but love for the Rokh, it was to be the new fleet ship. The Hyperion was to be the new up close blasterboat. Amarr pilots were scared that the Abaddon would be worthless... they feared that it would never be used outside of missions, let alone in fleet battles.
Interesting.
From 2006 wrote:The Rokh is such utter bullcrap, it just proves that Caldari get everything handed to them, not only do they get the best EW and the best ratter, now they also have the best fleetship in the game. The devs in this game have really completly lost it, 8 rails with optimal bonus, so now if you're a Caldari noob you can compete and outperform with high skilled people of other races in every department. I think someone at CCP believes that game balance means that there should be an easy noobish way to compete with everyone else. Oh yea, the Rokh isn't overpowered because it does less damage. Except it uses ammo with twice the damage to hit at the same range...
Abaadon? What the heck are you even thinking? "It can run a better tank then an apoc and put out more firepower then a Geddon, but it can't do both at the same time" What the hell is that even supposed to mean? Maybe someone at CCP didn't get the memo that a ship that is fitted for ganking cannot be fitted for tanking at the same time anyways and vice versa! So what does the Abbadon accomplish? Oh yea, it makes both other Amarr ships useless! (I mean, even more uesless, all other races are useless now that Caldari can do everything the best)
Hyperion, oh yea, we totally needed another blasterboat, every Gallente has been waiting for another blasterboat, we just don't have enough of them. What is this stupid dribble about the Megathron being a better long range ship because it has more tracking and dronespace?! Newsflash, tracking doesn't do jack at range, and drones don't have any significant range. Right, it's all balanced because Hyperion has no lock range, hooray for lock range. I mean why add something that Gallente doesn't have, like an EW ship maybe when you can just as well add something that slightly one ups one of the two possiblilities to set up a well rounded combat ship.
Maelstrom? "It has 8 turrets. It doesn't outdamage the Tempest as the Tempest gets a rate of fire and a damage bonus but Maelstrom's 8 turrets do outdamage Tempest's 6 turrets." So that basicly means it does outdamage the Tempest unless the tempest uses two launchers? Well that's just swell, except nobody cares if the DPS is slightly higher on a ship that is all about burst damage when another ship can deliver more of that. So what do we do with our Tempests now? Throw on a bunch of launchers and autocanons - oh, wait, there is a ship like that, starts's with a T too, looks like a junksausage...
Theese new ships are horrible and should not be added to the game. They don't bring any better balance to the game, they don't fill any roles that the different races are missing to be well rounded and viable to use without Caldari support, and they make a lot of existing ships and setups obsolete in their roles.
This entire thing is an entirely stupid stunt to please the idiots who don't want something that's acctually new, but something that's better, regardless of wether it screws up the games balance. The only race that gets something new to their arsenal is Caldari, and now they are even more ridiculously overpowered then before, and have absoloutly nothing they can't do. |
erfta
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:18:00 -
[875] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Daedalus Arcova wrote:Did Carebeari players whine this much when the Rokh was introduced? What is sad is that I'm reading the comments from Tuxford's Devblog when the stats of the Tier 3 BSs were released. We had such high hopes. From the 2006 thread wrote:ROKH - BULLCRAP
the only missile ship with 7 launcher points is the caldari navy raven ... extremely rare and the issue with losing them isn't so much the cost but the fact that they are so damn hard to replace ... i can't believe you're making a tier 3 CALDARI battleship that doesn't have at least 7 launcher points ... there are TONS of other BS's in the game w. 8 Turrets points .. and even more w. 7 turret points ... but for us dedicated missile pilots 6 is the maximum and that is just weak ... cmon CCP and throw the missile pilots a bone will ya? Remember during this time Ravens and Scorps were the fleet mainstays, and the Tier 2 BCs were still just in development (but leaked). so yes, there was whining back then but most told them to stfu, because the general consensus was that the Rokh will be uber, the Hyp overpowered, the Mael "meh", and the Abaddon would be useless in any fleet.
Back when hybrids were good(best even) and god help you if a ship shot from 150k+
no one reads the TOS not even the guy that writes it. this is sig worthy http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/11/09/mortal-online-plagiarizes-eve-onlines-terms-of-service/1#c35015206 |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
137
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:49:00 -
[876] - Quote
To be honest what I found surprising is that Caldari hasn't had a new rail boat in OVER 5 YEARS and there are people here saying they are being shafted by not getting a missile boat.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
243
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Posted - 2011.11.22 00:13:00 -
[877] - Quote
Why are people complaining about sacrificing tank for a web?
This is not a solo game. its a massive multiplayer game. Just pay one of your corp mates to fly around in a rifter with some webs to slow down your targets. |
Forum Alt Shaishi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.22 18:40:00 -
[878] - Quote
Why not give the Caldari 2 Tier 3 BC's One hybrid and one missile platform. |
The Underdark
Serenity A.E. Shades of Gray
18
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Posted - 2011.11.22 18:43:00 -
[879] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Why are people complaining about sacrificing tank for a web?
This is not a solo game. its a massive multiplayer game. Just pay one of your corp mates to fly around in a rifter with some webs to slow down your targets.
I understand your intended statement, and it's definatly a good idea to ahve more people.
HOWEVER...
if you need to pay a corpy to help you, you need a new corp :( |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
241
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 19:57:00 -
[880] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Why are people complaining about sacrificing tank for a web?
This is not a solo game. its a massive multiplayer game. Just pay one of your corp mates to fly around in a rifter with some webs to slow down your targets.
Thing is that you don't need to sacrifice whatsoever if you use Tornado. That's the problem.
To make Rails Naga or Talos perform like Tornado you need to add a lot of low/med slots to these 2.
Tornado can fit a very strong tank, still speed tank, track at high speed and apply important damage. The only competing with is the Oracle thx to his 70K EHP ability and performing weapon system, actually if you put at 140km Tornado vs Oracle both average resistance fit and not moving chances are Oracle wins but by very short margin, if both have transversal then Tornado wins hands down.
Talos and Naga can not compete with these too at any level atm, the worst of all being Talos by a large margin.
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Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2011.11.23 03:24:00 -
[881] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:Why are people complaining about sacrificing tank for a web?
This is not a solo game. its a massive multiplayer game. Just pay one of your corp mates to fly around in a rifter with some webs to slow down your targets. Thing is that you don't need to sacrifice whatsoever if you use Tornado. That's the problem. To make Rails Naga or Talos perform like Tornado you need to add a lot of low/med slots to these 2. Tornado can fit a very strong tank, still speed tank, track at high speed and apply important damage. The only competing with is the Oracle thx to his 70K EHP ability and performing weapon system, actually if you put at 140km Tornado vs Oracle both average resistance fit and not moving chances are Oracle wins but by very short margin, if both have transversal then Tornado wins hands down. Talos and Naga can not compete with these too at any level atm, the worst of all being Talos by a large margin.
Would like to point out that if you can get a Talos on top of your target, your target will turn into a nice cloud of faintly ionized mist. I can see them being a good thing to warp directly on top of high-value targets with extreme HP, or WT mission runners.
Naga seems to perform similarly although at a longer range, with blasters; not worth fitting rails on it because rails, even though they suck less, are still the bottom of the barrel.
I lied, they're still better than torps. |
Pro Versius
Prophet Industries Chaos Theory Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.11.23 04:15:00 -
[882] - Quote
OK I am not reading 45 pages of topic.
The Talos is still overpowered compared to the other 3 Tier 3 BC's.. I just got owned in all my Tier 3's on Sisi because someone put TD drones in the drone bay.. Last I read this is not supposed to be possible and all 4 bc's are supposed to be balanced together..
Simple solution, give them enough PG to fit the biggest close range turrets, no drones, and the Talos needs to lose a mid slot.. Same layout as Oracle..
You buffed the guns, so now nerf the ship. Remove a mid slot and lose the drones on the Talos. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
85
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Posted - 2011.11.23 04:52:00 -
[883] - Quote
Pro Versius wrote:OK I am not reading 45 pages of topic.
The Talos is still overpowered compared to the other 3 Tier 3 BC's.. I just got owned in all my Tier 3's on Sisi because someone put TD drones in the drone bay.. Last I read this is not supposed to be possible and all 4 bc's are supposed to be balanced together..
Simple solution, give them enough PG to fit the biggest close range turrets, no drones, and the Talos needs to lose a mid slot.. Same layout as Oracle..
You buffed the guns, so now nerf the ship. Remove a mid slot and lose the drones on the Talos.
Frak off. The Talos is fine-- if anything, it could use an additional mid. If you want to kill t3 BCs, fly a crusader. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
41
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Posted - 2011.11.23 11:53:00 -
[884] - Quote
The Talos drones is pulling the concept apart... But plz remember these ships are meant to fight battleships using their small signature to their advantage.Against battlecruisers and smaller you will likely be better off with medium weaponry.
I also believe the Tornado is too fast and all ships should have an even smaller signature radious.
Pinky |
Kos Meza
Blood Prospectors
0
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Posted - 2011.11.23 14:51:00 -
[885] - Quote
When was the last time any one saw a rokh in use btw? Just wondering.
Edit: I saw one mining a month or so back. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
249
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Posted - 2011.11.23 15:10:00 -
[886] - Quote
Kos Meza wrote:When was the last time any one saw a rokh in use btw? Just wondering.
Edit: I saw one mining a month or so back.
You can see them on SISI but they blow easily enough to not be something you must be worried about, just like Talos, yes it can hurt a very close range but it's very situational and whenever you're going to jump gates from now on you can expect those out there, because it's the only valid tactic with provided you have enough minmatar reccons to slow everything.
Nothing new, it's what you have to do already with blaster megas or hypes, you'll just have more dps.
Thing is that if you expect to use a whole gallente fleet to defend your space you better bring only Nyx Thany Moros and Erebus.
Every sub cap fleet from caldari to amarr or worst, minmatar will just annihilate gallente sub cap fleets like popcorn.
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960ApofiS069
hirr Morsus Mihi
0
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Posted - 2011.11.23 15:39:00 -
[887] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Here is the latest update on these ships: NAGA
- Missile role removed, now focuses as a hybrid platform
- 10% Torpedo velocity per level swapped for 5% to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level
As pointed out, even with the velocity bonus, torpedoes have a too short of a range to be useful in practical situation with the Naga since it has the lowest mobility of all tier 3 battlecruisers and quite poor defensive options. Aligning this ship into a missile platform would have required a long range option as well, meaning the use of cruise missiles, which created a certain number of issues. Specializing for a hybrid long range platform made more sense with the Naga role, which is why the damage bonus was appealing, especially when combined with CCP Tallest changes; it also makes more sense regarding Caldari tier philosophy, where highest tech 1 tiers usually are hybrid platforms (Merlin, Moa, Rokh). TALOS
- 25m3 dronebay and bandwidth added
Even if quite in opposition with the tier 3 battlecruiser role design, it adds an edge this ship needs over the other variants, especially since the Naga now it does the same damage with Hybrids. So, while we are looking at the blaster situation, we agreed giving the Talos a bit more survability against smaller threats was a good compromise for the time being. TORNADO
- Large Projectile Turret Falloff reduced from 10 to 5% per level
The reason for this reduction was mainly due to the range falloff reaches on autocannons when combined with the proper rigs, Barrage and Tracking Enchancers, dwarfing blasters in the close range department; we will see how the situation evolves and possibly make further changes to compensate. Also, please note some small powergrid/CPU changes may happen to the tier 3 battlecruisers in the next build. Thanks for your time.
thx for the most retar..ded idea in eve, naga should be torp/cruise boat. looks like some ppl from ccp still suffers from brain lag, ccp HC should better fix that! |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
42
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Posted - 2011.11.23 16:10:00 -
[888] - Quote
You won't see Rokhs a lot because
- People will have to actively play to do missions with it instead of slugging missiles
- Optimal bonus is useless for a fleet ship already having the best range
- Most other battleships does 25% more damage under 50km
- Getting any dps benefits with range is near impossible in a fluid battle
- Hybrids have their damage types locked up pretty tight
- Large Shield Extenders are not as effecient as 1600mm plates and active tanks sucks for fleet pvp
The Naga is different in many areas and should not be compared directly. |
OT Smithers
Buccaneer's Den
27
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Posted - 2011.11.24 01:55:00 -
[889] - Quote
Aglais wrote: Would like to point out that if you can get a Talos on top of your target, your target will turn into a nice cloud of faintly ionized mist. I can see them being a good thing to warp directly on top of high-value targets with extreme HP, or WT mission runners.
Naga seems to perform similarly although at a longer range, with blasters; not worth fitting rails on it because rails, even though they suck less, are still the bottom of the barrel.
I lied, they're still better than torps.
So your argument is that everything is fine because there is that one point in space -- a true warp to zero -- at which a properly fitted Talos will defeat its' enemy? |
OT Smithers
Buccaneer's Den
27
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Posted - 2011.11.24 01:57:00 -
[890] - Quote
Kos Meza wrote:When was the last time any one saw a rokh in use btw? Just wondering.
Edit: I saw one mining a month or so back.
I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen ANY Caldari BS used in PvP. Not that this is surprising mind you. |
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OT Smithers
Buccaneer's Den
27
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Posted - 2011.11.24 02:02:00 -
[891] - Quote
I will be astonished if I see people flying Naga's. The biggest impact it will have is a whole bunch of PISSED Caldari pilots womdering why CCP released two Gallente BCs and they got nothing.
The Tornado looks pretty sweet. If I stick around I'll definately fly that. |
Phantomania
Alien Ship Builders Caedite Eos
21
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Posted - 2011.11.24 06:04:00 -
[892] - Quote
Surprise, Surprise....
Still nothing from CCP....
I think this needs to be discussed! We're gona end up with a Naga that won't be used, that'll be a nice amount of man hours wasted!
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Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
30
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Posted - 2011.11.24 06:11:00 -
[893] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:Why are people complaining about sacrificing tank for a web?
This is not a solo game. its a massive multiplayer game. Just pay one of your corp mates to fly around in a rifter with some webs to slow down your targets. Thing is that you don't need to sacrifice whatsoever if you use Tornado. That's the problem. To make Rails Naga or Talos perform like Tornado you need to add a lot of low/med slots to these 2. Tornado can fit a very strong tank, still speed tank, track at high speed and apply important damage. The only competing with is the Oracle thx to his 70K EHP ability and performing weapon system, actually if you put at 140km Tornado vs Oracle both average resistance fit and not moving chances are Oracle wins but by very short margin, if both have transversal then Tornado wins hands down. Talos and Naga can not compete with these too at any level atm, the worst of all being Talos by a large margin.
Tanya the Oracle needs something to kill |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
30
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Posted - 2011.11.24 06:20:00 -
[894] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:You won't see Rokhs a lot because - People will have to actively play to do missions with it instead of slugging missiles
- Optimal bonus is useless for a fleet ship already having the best range
- Most other battleships does 25% more damage under 50km
- Getting any dps benefits with range is near impossible in a fluid battle
- Hybrids have their damage types locked up pretty tight
- Large Shield Extenders are not as effecient as 1600mm plates and active tanks sucks for fleet pvp
The Naga is different in many areas and should not be compared directly.
It mite not be a Rokh but it's still a Large Hybird weapon ship so it's just a screwed as every other Large turrent Hybird ship for major fleet fights.
How ever it will do just fine for all the thighs that Hybird ships are already used for. Nothing more nothing less. End of story.
I personly look forward to all the smack talkers saying Hybirds are fine just need to find the right fits.
Becouse I plain on being a fly on the wall of that major fleet fight were one side is primarly Gallente and the other side has the fairly standered fleet used today. So I can film it and play it over and over and laugh my ars off. And to also link a copy to CCP with that almighty we told you so.
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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
88
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Posted - 2011.11.24 06:54:00 -
[895] - Quote
The Naga makes a good 100km sniper, just sayin. Also, it gets a certain damage bonus that the Rokh doesn't, which actually makes it more useful than a Rokh imho. It's not a terrible ship. It also does OK with a blaster fit v0v
I won't be flying one, but only cause I like the Talos more :3 |
Judie Ramone
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.24 09:39:00 -
[896] - Quote
Dear CCP, Please stop any attempt at making the Naga a split weapon platform ship. Caldari players are not accustomed to little inconveniences like "maneuvering their ships" or "training anything besides missiles and shields." Just give it cruise missiles so all they have to do is hit F1 to win. Everyone knows that there is a real lack of players utilizing Caldari battlecruisers in Eve, perhaps if you overpower the Naga just enough you can offset the other injustices visited upon these good people.
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Phantomania
Alien Ship Builders Caedite Eos
21
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Posted - 2011.11.24 11:24:00 -
[897] - Quote
NAGA + Best Use (Rails) - Most Use(Missiles) = ? No Use ? |
erfta
State War Academy Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2011.11.24 12:08:00 -
[898] - Quote
Judie Ramone wrote:Dear CCP, Please stop any attempt at making the Naga a split weapon platform ship. Caldari players are not accustomed to little inconveniences like "maneuvering their ships" or "training anything besides missiles and shields." Just give it cruise missiles so all they have to do is hit F1 to win. Everyone knows that there is a real lack of players utilizing Caldari battlecruisers in Eve, perhaps if you overpower the Naga just enough you can offset the other injustices visited upon these good people. And turret user train what? primary weapon/tank for their personal fleets, besides outside of pve you have to move to keep people inside the sweet spot. no one reads the TOS not even the guy that writes it. this is sig worthy http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/11/09/mortal-online-plagiarizes-eve-onlines-terms-of-service/1#c35015206 |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
129
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Posted - 2011.11.24 14:13:00 -
[899] - Quote
Phantomania wrote:Surprise, Surprise.... Still nothing from CCP.... I think this needs to be discussed! We're gona end up with a Naga that won't be used, that'll be a nice amount of man hours wasted!
Clearly the answer is to give the Naga a bigger damage bonus then, maybe to 10%/level. Maybe it'll be used if it can do 840 DPS at 100 km?
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Archare
SKEET ELITE
4
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Posted - 2011.11.24 15:49:00 -
[900] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Phantomania wrote:Surprise, Surprise.... Still nothing from CCP.... I think this needs to be discussed! We're gona end up with a Naga that won't be used, that'll be a nice amount of man hours wasted! Clearly the answer is to give the Naga a bigger damage bonus then, maybe to 10%/level. Maybe it'll be used if it can do 840 DPS at 100 km?
at that rate why don't we just increase railgun damage across the board by 50%? |
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