Since the Thread gone a bit off topic during the last page, I like to repost some stuff here:

Oracle

The old concept was better. Don't get me wrong, I love pooping blaster hulls with 1200+ DPS during her endless crusade to get into a range they never reach. However this is simply over the top, for a mobile hull like the Oracle. Hitting anti support at 50km isn't so hard anyway. You not going to prevent this in a big fight, and it is rather moot point outside of this for a fleet ship like the Oracle. Give it back it's range + tracking bonus(buff the cap a bit to compensate for the lack of the 2. cap use bonus) and make it a notch faster so you end up with a faster Apoc/long range Harbinger instead of a Abaddon that also can control the engagement range(what makes it extreme powerful) and is fairly cap stable in practical game play.

Naga

I'm still waiting for a change. With torps it is nearly useful, however it still lacks the higher velocity bonus to bump up the range a bit so it can compete with other tier 3 BC short range weapon setups(except the Talos) and a explosion velocity bonus to bring it down to 337.5m. You still have damage reduction by speed and sig for most BCs. BC and BS are the most common fleet ships today for DPS. If you want a torp naga on the field it must be able to project solid damage against them(w/o throwing 1-2 painter, a scram and a web on every target you shoot, it isn't this good dps wise to justify this).

The slot and fitting nerf was uncalled for. I'm still looking for a update on the speed penalty for javelin torpedo's.

Tornado

It is over the top with the the best mix of tank and gank mounted on the fastest hull of the tier3(by quite some margin), if you insist to keep the falloff bonus, reduce the turret count or remove a low slot to bring the overall damage down a notch.

Talos

Add a 5. med(and some fitting to use the slot, overall it is very short on CPU for a shieldtank) and buff the tracking bonus to 10% per level to make it a halve way ok rail ship for medium ranges, that can at least compete against beam fittings w/o the damage bonus or puls setups with scorch(it is to far off with the tracking atm and lacks the 5. med for a reasonable tank).

I have one stupid idea.

You think it's bad here?

For every answer CCP Tallest provides in the hybrid thread, a thousand questions are written in reply.

Should we be looking forward to the winter expansion or summer for these things? We've waited 2 years, I'm sure a few more months won't hurt...

So to recap CCP stance on this so far:

- Minmatar are OP for lore reasons
- Hybrids suck, but everything else is so screwed up we can't really fix em.
- Naga sucks because Caldari BS's suck, and we can't possibly break away from the chain of suckage and fess up that Raven and Rokh were badly designed to begin with.


Among many things, all this really seems to tell me is that CCP is too scared to change the status quo, and because the status quo is @$%^, things will continue to be as they are because they're afraid of trying to actually balance their game.

*sigh* There goes my hope for this expansion.

Interesting point

Minmatar are Op because no weapons system they have uses cap and they can choose to engage or disengage at will with their superior speed and maneuverability. Also the falloff on AC's is redonkulous. Hybrids don't suck...railguns suck. Blasters do what they do very well. Railguns try to bring DPS to the realm where alpha dominates and then promptly fails. The parimary reason is that ranged combat has been nerfed over time from general ship HP increases to insta-probing close range death squads. Oh and the extreme nerf of torp range for no damage increase was a killer. Railguns can't track....use too much cap/grid/cpu/everything and make my soul hurt. As a caldari born capsuleer I wonder how my brethren can fend off all these threats with THE WORST WEAPONS SYSTEMS IN EVE.

Even the test changes don't bring rails up to par enough. The ranges railguns excell at (ranges no one can shoot back at you at) are no longer present in the game since the 250km locking cap was intro'd years ago. THANKS CCP!! The rokh only gets good beyond 250km beucase no one else can compete at that range. Hell the raven is supposed to be a long-range standoff platform. Cruise missile dps sucks. Torps can't hit at range. So yep. THe rokh at any effective range these days is outclassed by weapon systems (1400mm howitzer II) that use no cap, do very high alpha and can select a spread of damage types not limited to kin and therm.

rail guns SHOULD beat the **** out of artillery and no not just by RoF...they should out alpha, out range and deliver a pin point strike overwhelming any defense. But no...we can't even get halfway there with some decent damage. 10% on a 2700 alpha is still 2970K. That isn't a boost...that is a statisitical outlier compared to the 11-13K hits from minmatar ships. No I don't care that my rof is 3x faster if I can't kill the target I'm shooting at.

That is bull*** - Proteus is the singlehanded most heavily buffertanked T3 cruiser in the game even more tank than a Legion. Also it has a divine tackling bonus easily capable of working with armor fleets.

That is bull*** - Proteus is the singlehanded most heavily buffertanked T3 cruiser in the game even more tank than a Legion. Also it has a divine tackling bonus easily capable of working with armor fleets.

That said however I'm tired of hearing "optimal bonus is a damage bonuse" talk about Caldari because range plays little to no role in current battles and it makes it impossible to mix stuff like the rokh because of difference in range and huge difference in damage/volley damage.

dammit!!!

The oracle & tornado you can have a half decent tank & good dps, havn't tried talos so could not say.

The naga is what needs some love atm primarily, its tank gets raped in seconds & used with torps its just a sitting duck atm, tank needs buffing that much is sure.

Rail guns being after lasers, the highest technology level can be worst than projectiles witch should look like pre historic stuff

So much effort for "nothing" . Stupid engineers

The oracle & tornado you can have a half decent tank & good dps, havn't tried talos so could not say.

The naga is what needs some love atm primarily, its tank gets raped in seconds & used with torps its just a sitting duck atm, tank needs buffing that much is sure.

In my opinion, ships will never always be used for their determined roles. At the end of the day we will still see the these battlecruisers ripping apart ships smaller ships than just battleships. Honestly, I can't argue the removal of the web bonus on the talos, it would have been fun and useful and I was a little deflated to see its removal but, it would have made killing small ships incredibly easy and in fact TOO easy. The drone bay, in my opinion, should not be removed from the talos, but this would increase its ability to fight smaller ships so it's been removed. My suggestion, though I will probably get chased off this thread with a shotgun on this suggestion but I'm going for it anyway, we give the talos a fighter. Yes, I said it, a single fighter without to ability to replace it with a bunch of small drones. Much like the fighter bay on the mom nerf coming up. 5 hobs without ship boosts do almost exactly the same as a single fireblog (about 100dps). This would allow the talos to put some dps on the floor outside it's gun range yet keep it away from smaller ships, I like the sound of it, just time to do some research now...

10 minutes later after some research: There are several problems with this suggestion I will say from the start, this bay would be useless to new players as they wouldn't have the skills for fighters. Not to mention that the fighter would cost about 1/3 the price of the ship once prices settle down. It's a good idea in concept but in the reality of TQ it wouldn't work. I don't know where to find any common ground to make this work other than the fighter being part of the ship and you miracusly get new one when you dock, not to mention a reduced skill requirement for new players.

I'm open to suggestions and this entire post is speculation so do please take a minute or two and give it some thought before trolling me right off this thread. Thanks for reading!

Sorry if this post is 100% geared toward gallente, it's all I ever fly. Many people may have no love for gallente but it's what I fly and I like it.

I can't wait to see the troll posts in reply to this, sigh.

to me it's interessting to see, that although the new tier3 bc are not intended for tanking and therefor have glasscanon-hitpoints, ppl still try to fit multiple plates and extenders on them...

the "usability" of a ship nowdays seems to base on 2-3 properties:
1. has good dmg out potential/can fit fotm weapon system? if "yes" go to 2. otherwise reject ->"usless ship"
2. can fit solid buffer tank? if "yes" go to 3. otherwise -> "useless paperthin ship is useless"!
3. bufferfitted ship has decent speed/can influence fighting range -> if "yes" ship is good for use, otherwise forget about it..

to me it's interessting to see, that although the new tier3 bc are not intended for tanking and therefor have glasscanon-hitpoints, ppl still try to fit multiple plates and extenders on them...

the "usability" of a ship nowdays seems to base on 2-3 properties:
1. has good dmg out potential/can fit fotm weapon system? if "yes" go to 2. otherwise reject ->"usless ship"
2. can fit solid buffer tank? if "yes" go to 3. otherwise -> "useless paperthin ship is useless"!
3. bufferfitted ship has decent speed/can influence fighting range -> if "yes" ship is good for use, otherwise forget about it..

to me it's interessting to see, that although the new tier3 bc are not intended for tanking and therefor have glasscanon-hitpoints, ppl still try to fit multiple plates and extenders on them...

In my opinion, ships will never always be used for their determined roles. At the end of the day we will still see the these battlecruisers ripping apart ships smaller ships than just battleships. Honestly, I can't argue the removal of the web bonus on the talos, it would have been fun and useful and I was a little deflated to see its removal but, it would have made killing small ships incredibly easy and in fact TOO easy. The drone bay, in my opinion, should not be removed from the talos, but this would increase its ability to fight smaller ships so it's been removed. My suggestion, though I will probably get chased off this thread with a shotgun on this suggestion but I'm going for it anyway, we give the talos a fighter. Yes, I said it, a single fighter without to ability to replace it with a bunch of small drones. Much like the fighter bay on the mom nerf coming up. 5 hobs without ship boosts do almost exactly the same as a single fireblog (about 100dps). This would allow the talos to put some dps on the floor outside it's gun range yet keep it away from smaller ships, I like the sound of it, just time to do some research now...

10 minutes later after some research: There are several problems with this suggestion I will say from the start, this bay would be useless to new players as they wouldn't have the skills for fighters. Not to mention that the fighter would cost about 1/3 the price of the ship once prices settle down. It's a good idea in concept but in the reality of TQ it wouldn't work. I don't know where to find any common ground to make this work other than the fighter being part of the ship and you miracusly get new one when you dock, not to mention a reduced skill requirement for new players.

I'm open to suggestions and this entire post is speculation so do please take a minute or two and give it some thought before trolling me right off this thread. Thanks for reading!

Sorry if this post is 100% geared toward gallente, it's all I ever fly. Many people may have no love for gallente but it's what I fly and I like it.

I can't wait to see the troll posts in reply to this, sigh.