just add torpedo and cruise missile bonuses and fitting bonuses and let it be a multi boat.. hybrid and missiles.. problem solved ^^

You are joking, right ?

Do you honestly think you need to skill for missile to get an effective and versatile Amarr/Matar character ?
No you don't, because guns are effective and versatile enough to get everything done. Missile and drones are not.
Add mandatory shield tanking and pre-nerfed speed, and you get why Caldari pvp sucks outside of some niches (ECM, Drake, Tengu).

Nothing to do with carebears, really (who would make more lvl4 ISK/hr in Nightmare/Vargur/Machariel than in Tengu/CNR/Golem anyway, or more Incursion ISK/hr in Legion/Loki/Mach/Night/Vindi than in any Caldari ship... Apart from Basilisk).

They culd give bonuses to flight time and speed of torps.

But why waste a ship just for PVP? Eve fitters are an inventive crew they will ALWAYS find to use a ship for what it isnt intended to do... looks like in this case another sue was found... until this nerf from CCP

What the hell are you talking about?

Turning the Naga into a hybrid platform was a very good decision, one that I fully support. The bonuses seem fine.

Something you did not understand, obviously, as your answer has nothing to do with my post. I will explain it again.


First, I don't care about Naga, torps or guns it's fail compared to other t3 BCs anyway due to its lack of speed, big sig, bad slot layout (3 lows on a tank/speed/gun ship ? joking right ?), fitting, etc. Don't think I'll ever fly it over a Tornado or Oracle.
And I can fly gunships, I'm not asking for missiles because that's the only weapon I have, but because CCP hiding its head in the sand when it comes to missile flaws is a bad thing for the game.


You said everyone was training both weapon system of its race to be effective and versatile ?
-> It's not true. Any non caldari character with only guns (and small/med drones) as a weapon system can be effective and versatile in every situation.
With Caldari it's not the case. If you only have missile, you're almost useless or at least subpar in most situations (ECM, Drake and Tengu are a different story). And even worse, if you skill missiles AND hybrids, you're still useless or subpar in most situations. And you said missile wasn't necessary? Then you only fly subpar ships in almost any situation (extreme sniping with low alpha and dps is not useful).

And it has nothing to do with carebears. At all.
You just mistake missiles for a carebear weapon system, but they are just a broken one that need fixes from CCP (drones too, tbh). Wanting missiles to be fixed and not forgotten (like CCP is doing with the non-missile Naga) is not a carebear whining.

Few other things :
- What would be the problem with a Cruise Naga, really? DPS would be low, and yeah, it would hit cruisers, but every gunship can do that better except at very close range, BSs or t3 BCs included
- Don't compare Naga to stealth bombers, they are too different ships. Anyway, an explosion RADIUS (and not speed) bonus (-10%/lvl) and a damage (+5%/lvl) OR range (+15%/lvl) bonus and I would definitely use a torp naga (once its base speed, slot layout, etc. are fixed).

What's more taxing to a player? making them train 3 basic skills to III or IV or having them train 6 levels of advanced weapons and all the support skills..

if you want a hybrid boat and use hybrid weapons, just train a gal BC, don't force missile people to train a whole new weapons group

what's the point of having different weapons specialties for each race if we're going to mix all the ships anyway?

So much whining. I don't know what's more stupid, PVEers who thought that the old torp-Naga was good at PVE, or the people who are only just realising that Caldari has an entire line of hybrid boats and is the most SP-intensive race. Where other races have a primary weapon system and a secondary one (projectiles with a side of missiles; lasers with a T2 side of missiles; blasters with a side of drones), Caldari has two primaries in the form of rails and missiles, with another entire line of ECM boats.

don't force a lack of diversity because you feel like you should get everything with minimal effort.

Cruise naga would have high DPS with cruise and able to hit smaller ships even up close because there's no issue with tracking. These Tier 3 ships have 2 weaknesses...


1) no tank and vulnerability to alpha.
2) smaller ships can get in underneath the guns

you rule out number 2.

It is rather amusing. I am not making fun of you I swear... but this post sounds very 2005-6. Except... replace Caldari with Minmatar. Minmatar WAS a dual weapon race once upon a time. Minnies used to cry and cry. Especially over the Typhoon.

Yeah, there does seem to be a general attitude that Minmatar is a dual-weapon race, but it's not really borne out by their ships today. I mean, there's the Typhoon, and the Cyclone has three launcher slots, and... what else? Rupture? Hardly. I was playing in 2006 but I didn't really know wtf was going on, so I can't remember if Minmatar actually had a full line of missile ships that got reworked, rather than just "a couple of ships that can also fit missiles if you really want to, one of which nobody really uses anyway".

Edit - there's also the Huginn, that's also split, now that I think of it. And of course on the capital level there's the Naglfar. Ah, so it's not as bad as I described at first.

My previous posts already state that I'm primarily Gal / Hybrid pilot, I'm trying to make sure that people who prefer missiles actually get something this winter

They have the Drake.

Ahem, Hurricane is split weapons as well, along with the Rifter...

What's more taxing to a player? making them train 3 basic skills to III or IV or having them train 6 levels of advanced weapons and all the support skills.. if you want a hybrid boat and use hybrid weapons, just train a gal BC, don't force missile people to train a whole new weapons group

Many Caldari pilots haven't trained a lot of hybrids as they quickly learned that hybrids aren't the way to go. Especially not LARGE hybrids. I don't think one single tier 3 BC is going to change that. If the Naga doesn't get its missile bonusses back I think the Naga will have little use and most pilots flying it will actually be Gallente pilots that see its advantages over the Talos.

Why have two hybrid platforms among the new battlecruisers anyway.

READ THE POST! We're getting a Drake for Winter?