Name them.

How about building Titans.

What, you can't do that? Too spacepoor? Too low on the food chain? Not enough skillpoints?

Too bad.

Hahahahahaha.

This is so untrue it's actually funny.

There's plenty of ways to make income in null, and the highest earning ones do not directly involve any ratting.

The above quote is all the evidence we need to show that you have no arguments and that you are simply desperate to keep your golden egg laying goose.

My "golden egg laying goose?"

I'm not even sure what you are referencing. Highsec? Highsec doesn't buy my goods - players do.

This argument again? If you are only ratting in null for your source of income and comparing that to hi-sec then you are doing it wrong.

The same people keep beating this same dead horse. You cannot take one method of income for an entire region be it null/low/hi-sec and say thatGÇÖs proof you can make more isk.

The income potential for null is the greatest of all. Right now the numbers CCP have seem to support this or they would not be nerfing income there. They may nerf hi-sec as well eventually.

You squall babies need to HTFU or pack your sheet up and leave my game.

Only the numbers do show that high sec income is better. CCP are only nerfing null income again as an excuse for the ESS, they said it themselves.

Its not a case of HTFU, its a case of high sec giving the best safety coupled with rewards better than null.

"The only way I know how to make income is to shoot NPC-controlled red squares.

Why am I space poor?"

HTFU indeed.

Anoms are what we have in place of level 4 missions. So yea, that is what most people run in null.

In the middle ages, most people thought the world was flat. It did not make them right.

its a case of high sec giving the best safety coupled with rewards better than null.

"The only way I know how to make income is to shoot NPC-controlled red squares.

Why am I space poor?"

HTFU indeed.

[quote=Pinky Hops]


-non-FW low sec (lvl4/5 missions, low sec exploration) (dead last)

this thread is horrible, income in high sec is utter **** for a new player,.

low sec exploration has good payouts, if your the pirate comming in to kill/steal.

great way to introduce the next step of eve exploration (as high sec is garbage) "welcome to the rest of eve! now gtfo"

Only the numbers do show that high sec income is better. CCP are only nerfing null income again as an excuse for the ESS, they said it themselves.

Its not a case of HTFU, its a case of high sec giving the best safety coupled with rewards better than null.

Except the numbers don't say that.
You have pulled mythical best case scenario's for high sec income, and are attempting to claim that these cases are sustainable, when they blatantly aren't.
While at the same time refusing any but the worst case null sec scenario's as valid data.

In short you are totally biasing your data set. So of course you are drawing the wrong conclusions from it.

Regardless, Null Sec income is about to get a potential boost, so any further arguments need to wait to see how it plays out in the actual social meta as to how much of a boost it works out to be. (Since even if a roaming null sec gang is stealing isk regularly, that isk is still being earned by someone in null sec)

this thread is horrible, income in high sec is utter **** for a new player, mining does max 9.5-12 mill per hour with a mackinaw (max skills with right ore solo character) and lvl 4 missions are a freaking horrible grind and you NEED max skills + faction/marauder to get the sort of income people brag about isk/hour on lvl 4 missions, that's 9+ months of training.

Actually I was lowballing.

I chose 150 mil for incursions as thats easily sustainable, 200 mil is great but not always possible.

I also chose 100-120 mil for missions as thats more the norm although 180 mil is easily doable in SOE missions.

I chose to use the average income for anoms which is around the 90 mil mark.

I find it funny that the same people who want more hi sec risk are also the same faces who often tell high sec pvpers to get off the undock and do real pvp etc.

Where is this new high sec risk going to come from, exactly?

Take a Dominix to null, to an upgraded system. Use it to do anomalies (the most common source of null sec pve isk). See how much you make in a couple hours.

Take the same ship to high sec, Blitz missions for SOE,Thukker or a corp with industial implants in it's LP store, do this for one hour and 45 minutes (giving yourself 15 minutes to convert the LP and sell the items you get to buy orders (ie not even the best isk/lp converstion rates). See how much isk you have.

comparing "the most common source..." with "blitzing missions for very specific corporations..." doesn't look very good

Also, with about 2 months sp in combat skills, I would say you can make better income in null than in highsec.

Thing is, this isn't really true. A 2 month old in a sniper domi or maelstrom of Attack BC will struggle with sanctums and havens (and forsaken hubs of one of the longer ranged races like guristas or blood raiders). They won't have tech2 guns or drones which are IMO necessary. They won't be able to solo ANY ded plex (Citadel Torps don't give a damn about your MJDing domi lol).

That same 2 month old can get into an incursion fleet in a rokh or maelstrom with meta or faction guns and and due to the incursion mechanics make the same exact isk as the guy flying the 5 bil mach or vindi.

Yes, a two month old solo pilot in null will struggle compared to a two month old pilot who joins 20 other people to do incursions.

Crazy.

Apples are not like freight trains.

One requires social interaction, the other does not. Now what happens when you take 3-4 of those pilots in null? Now they are clearing belts, anoms, maybe even some low end complexes. They split the loot. Now what happens to your math? I know what happened to me when I went down in null my first time: I made way more than missioning in highsec. How about when we really make a valid comparison, and compare 20 of them working together, 15 of which are not noobs? Typical incursion fleets are not all noobs; so yes those who are in a crap-fit BS still make the same cash even though their contribution is lower. Why? Community.

Stop making these radical comparisons and cherrry-picking your scenarios to support your desired whine.

Should we consider a change to make missions require full clear? Sure, I can get behind that.

Should we consider nerfing all of high sec just because the incursion community has made an ACTUAL COMMUNITY instead of a bunch of trolling asshats (nullsec)? No.