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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5777
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Posted - 2014.05.15 16:46:00 -
[571] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Doc Fury wrote:CCP Delegate Zero wrote:stuff
There's a distinct lack of an "off" switch mentioned in your reply. Shame on you for not addressing it at all. It seems you guys have selective reading comprehension or you simply don't give a toss what your customers think even when they are almost unanimously telling you they expect to be able to turn this OFF. Is this the kind of development process we can continue to expect from CCP's new "improved" development cycle? Well he did mention it, but in a distinctly unsatisfactory manner: CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option.
Thanks for that, my eyes are failing me it seems. Guess I should just go outside and give-up on this.
Sadly, CCP has not learned anything the last few years. They don't seem to grasp that giving customers options is a good thing even when it may bruise a few egos a bit, this is especially troubling when those same customers are demanding choice. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Guth'Alak
EVE University Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2014.05.15 16:57:00 -
[572] - Quote
PLEASE just change it back to the way it was? im an explorer and all i do are relic/date sites. they are just not fun anymore with the new tooltips. i dont even wanna leave the station until its fixed. |
Jihada Omanid
Black Core Federation Black Core Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.05.15 16:58:00 -
[573] - Quote
As I and others stated before and especially a problem when trying to get the cans in explorer sites:
tooltips are on a big box preventing us from clicking whatever is behind
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Mag's
the united
17230
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Posted - 2014.05.15 17:00:00 -
[574] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Doc Fury wrote:CCP Delegate Zero wrote:stuff
There's a distinct lack of an "off" switch mentioned in your reply. Shame on you for not addressing it at all. It seems you guys have selective reading comprehension or you simply don't give a toss what your customers think even when they are almost unanimously telling you they expect to be able to turn this OFF. Is this the kind of development process we can continue to expect from CCP's new "improved" development cycle? Well he did mention it, but in a distinctly unsatisfactory manner: CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option. Thanks for that, my eyes are failing me it seems. Guess I should just go outside and give-up on this. Sadly, CCP has not learned anything the last few years. They don't seem to grasp that giving customers options is a good thing even when it may bruise a few egos a bit, this is especially troubling when those same customers are demanding choice. Well damn it then. I'm off to start placing post it notes all around the house.
This is a door, it leads to the kitchen.
This is a door handle, press it to open the door to the kitchen.
This is the kitchen....... etc etc.
Then I'll let you know what my wife and kids think of my idea and just how long it lasts.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
2
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Posted - 2014.05.15 17:11:00 -
[575] - Quote
I'm wondering why there is no option to turn it off??!! You make something which some of the ppl and skilled players don't like. it's normal to have options to turn it off and on.
In this point of view why the hell you made an Audio Enabled select button???? For what? to turn off/on music?! Just remove it |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
730
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 17:38:00 -
[576] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Penny Ernaga wrote:P.S.: quote from CCP Delegate Zero: " ...Moreover, we plan to expand and iterate on tooltips going forward." Holy cow! Is this a seriously meant threat to us players? Or just some black humor? ...Heaven beware While it may well be that people who call for the firing of others, fling abusive tosh around, or indeed issue various flavours of threat themselves, merit a threat or two in return, this wasn't a threat. More of a promise.
LOL awesome response.
By refusing to revert these changes and then making a comment like that, you are really alienating the player base. Good job.
With that attitude, you are obviously not going to be leaving CCP for a better job like the other Devs recently. So we are stuck with you and your mates with the same outlook. Awesome future CCP has. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1888
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 17:44:00 -
[577] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:we are looking to release the initial set in terms of days. We're certainly not constrained to wait for Kronos.
Days... So Tuesday, 20th of May? Tomorrow would be a "day" and it's Friday and who releases anything on Monday... I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6193
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 17:53:00 -
[578] - Quote
So if an option to turn this off is not in the cards, you need to rollback the entire thing.
Because these are so intrusive, so clunky, and so onmipresent now that it inhibits gameplay in more than a few ways.
And how it got released to TQ I will never know. So please, roll it back, take it back the drawing board. The vast majority of your players do NOT need this kind of heavy handed tooltip stuff, so it needs to be rethought. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
4
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Posted - 2014.05.15 17:58:00 -
[579] - Quote
I have another crappy idea with the tooltips
when you are in space and point some mate on the gate let say with crow. To be more easy for the new players of course and to have moooarrr info just show:
Crow-->Market datails--->skill you need--->ammo you need--->some fitings --->pilot info--->bio-->link to the kb--->how many time he goes to the WC--->corp--->aliance--->home system--->route the home system--->shorter way to the home system---->how many station have this system...............................
and all this min. in 1000 tooltips!!! and of course if you have a monitor less then 22 inches you must include the options to scrolling everywhere in space just be "more informed"
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Alternative Splicing
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.05.15 18:06:00 -
[580] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Following on from that, we are thinking very seriously about how delay timing interacts with the tooltip contents and context. This is a contender for some configuration options. Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option.
Okay. Clearly we believe different things when it comes to the word 'iteration'. Somehow, I was under the working impression that part of iteration meant gathering feedback from the people who play the game and using that to make the feature better. Selection bias anyone? You don't seem too open to popular or negative feedback here, yet that is essential to iteration. If iteration just means a slower, inexorable, release of features people do not want or like, then that's really not what was described during the fanfest presentations. So basically, not only can most of that not be taken at face value, neither can your claims be. The biggest problem here is that the vast majority is being ignored. Furthermore, you seem adamant about it, when that is counter-intuitive to a real evolutionary iterative process - out with the bad, in with the good. Where is the iteration we were promised, cause I am having a hard time finding it. Why do you even have a forum for feedback if you don't actually listen to any of it?
I want to log in and use the same UI as I did last week. The fact that I can't is irritating, the fact that you don't seem to want to listen to the vast majority who want the same thing is far worse. |
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Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
394
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:32:00 -
[581] - Quote
There are parts of this that are great, such as clusters of items that now pop up a list from which you can select actions to perform on the one you want, useful for navigating dense clusters of POS mods, for example.
However there are parts of this that are annoying, and sadly I'm finding more annoying aspects of this change than I'm finding positives. The two most annoying things for me are:
1) Hovering over a truncated column entry in the overview no longer expands the truncated text; instead, it displays the new tooltip for that type of item. Previously I could hover over an item and click the right one after reading the expanded text instead of now requiring multiple clicks and potential mistakes. For example, "Jita IV Moon 4 Caldari Navy Assembly" vs "Jita IV Moon 4 Caldari Business whatever" only displays "Station" now instead of the name, depending on the width of that column.
2) The delay between showing and removing the tooltips are more twitch than a Quake gamer still awake after 72 hours of caffeine and sugar induced hyper-awareness. The rapid, almost flashing, tooltip graphics demand constant attention from your eyes, distracting from anything that might be happening that is important. If the tooltip graphics were any larger, they might run the risk of inducing seizures in particularly sensitive people.
I suppose that including the truncated text in the tooltip could partially restore previous functionality that was lost with this change. If you do this, please take care to be location-aware and include the correct column's information.
If we could have a way to modify the tooltip delay, we could reduce the distraction associated with #2. This may be sufficient for many.
For others who truly are displeased with the new change -- and some will be -- an option to disable them completely would be welcomed. It would be even better to have a slightly more granular enable/disable option, as the weapon/module tooltips that were introduced long before this most recent change were very helpful.
More preferred would be to have a "New Player" setting and a "Minimal" setting, in addition to a "Disabled" setting. The current implementation would be the New Player setting, as it does greatly aid new players as they're getting used to the nomenclature of the game.
The implementation present immediately before this change would be the Minimal setting. It has some useful information, but doesn't clutter every inch of the screen with tooltips.
Then the Disabled setting is self explanatory. No tooltips, no weapon information popups, nothing. |
Ivan Taredi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:35:00 -
[582] - Quote
Meytal wrote:There are parts of this that are great, such as clusters of items that now pop up a list from which you can select actions to perform on the one you want, useful for navigating dense clusters of POS mods, for example.
However there are parts of this that are annoying, and sadly I'm finding more annoying aspects of this change than I'm finding positives. The two most annoying things for me are:
1) Hovering over a truncated column entry in the overview no longer expands the truncated text; instead, it displays the new tooltip for that type of item. Previously I could hover over an item and click the right one after reading the expanded text instead of now requiring multiple clicks and potential mistakes. For example, "Jita IV Moon 4 Caldari Navy Assembly" vs "Jita IV Moon 4 Caldari Business whatever" only displays "Station" now instead of the name, depending on the width of that column.
2) The delay between showing and removing the tooltips are more twitch than a Quake gamer still awake after 72 hours of caffeine and sugar induced hyper-awareness. The rapid, almost flashing, tooltip graphics demand constant attention from your eyes, distracting from anything that might be happening that is important. If the tooltip graphics were any larger, they might run the risk of inducing seizures in particularly sensitive people.
I suppose that including the truncated text in the tooltip could partially restore previous functionality that was lost with this change. If you do this, please take care to be location-aware and include the correct column's information.
If we could have a way to modify the tooltip delay, we could reduce the distraction associated with #2. This may be sufficient for many.
For others who truly are displeased with the new change -- and some will be -- an option to disable them completely would be welcomed. It would be even better to have a slightly more granular enable/disable option, as the weapon/module tooltips that were introduced long before this most recent change were very helpful.
More preferred would be to have a "New Player" setting and a "Minimal" setting, in addition to a "Disabled" setting. The current implementation would be the New Player setting, as it does greatly aid new players as they're getting used to the nomenclature of the game.
The implementation present immediately before this change would be the Minimal setting. It has some useful information, but doesn't clutter every inch of the screen with tooltips.
Then the Disabled setting is self explanatory. No tooltips, no weapon information popups, nothing.
The weapon/module info popups can already be disabled if you wish (note: NOT the shield/armor/hull block that pops up) You can even hide passive modules.
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Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
394
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:39:00 -
[583] - Quote
Ivan Taredi wrote:Meytal wrote:More preferred would be to have a "New Player" setting and a "Minimal" setting, in addition to a "Disabled" setting. The current implementation would be the New Player setting, as it does greatly aid new players as they're getting used to the nomenclature of the game.
The implementation present immediately before this change would be the Minimal setting. It has some useful information, but doesn't clutter every inch of the screen with tooltips.
Then the Disabled setting is self explanatory. No tooltips, no weapon information popups, nothing. The weapon/module info popups can already be disabled if you wish (note: NOT the shield/armor/hull block that pops up) You can even hide passive modules. I would actually use the minimal setting, were this suggestion implemented. I do like the weapon/module popups, but in general not most of the other tooltip/popups. |
Masao Kurata
Z List
51
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:48:00 -
[584] - Quote
The disambiguation tooltip is a great improvement to my quality of life although the delay in it popping up varies quite a lot for no apparent reason, you should look into that. The solar system map is still using the old style and needs to be converted to the new system, it is a pain when probing or doing anything else with the solar system view for that matter. |
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
1218
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:55:00 -
[585] - Quote
So some tooltips are great and super helpful to new players. However, when selecting an item from space right now the tooltip pops up. When a system is TiDi'd, the tooltip is also under TiDi. This means that selecting a target (bad guy ship/drone/etc) from space becomes hilariously difficult.
Will bracket tool-tip logic and the other changes sufficiently address this? ~ |
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence Mean Coalition
71
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:57:00 -
[586] - Quote
LOL
an "OFF-Switch" is no option...
First Time I'm glad about something from Microsoft...
Cause even in Windoz I CAN switch all Bubble/Balloon whatever popup Tolltipps : OFF
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Zip Slings
Southern Cross Incorporated Flying Dangerous
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:17:00 -
[587] - Quote
This new list of items when scrolling over a group in space has potential, but it needs to be faster and more persistent. What I mean by that is when I scroll over a cluster I need the group to pop up instantly and I need the list to persist long enough to get my mouse on it and it needs to persist until I move my mouse off of it. Right now you can be hovering over an item in the list and the list can disappear.
After reading the comments of other this seems to be a very play-style dependent concern. The ability to customize the features I listed above would be comprehensive in my experience. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6205
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:19:00 -
[588] - Quote
Zip Slings wrote:This new list of items when scrolling over a group in space has potential, but it needs to be faster and more persistent. What I mean by that is when I scroll over a cluster I need the group to pop up instantly and I need the list to persist long enough to get my mouse on it and it needs to persist until I move my mouse off of it. Right now you can be hovering over an item in the list and the list can disappear.
After reading the comments of other this seems to be a very play-style dependent concern. The ability to customize the features I listed above would be comprehensive in my experience.
I imagine it would be very playstyle dependent.
I, for example, want it gone with a seething hate. And I want it replaced with the previous iteration. The in space groups tooltip is one of the most egregiously bad ones, if you ask me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Sarka Bathory
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
24
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:36:00 -
[589] - Quote
I start to get lost on this whole tooltip-debacle... and therefore I need to get some answers. Please developers, I am sure you can help.
And this is not meant as an offense, and I am very well aware that the last two days may not have been the easiest in your professional life. And I do have compassion for you, since you are surely not the sole responsibles for the decision on this - let`s say "unlucky" - approach with the tooltips.
> I was getting from your last post on the actions you plan to take: the "ON/OFF" switch is high effort to realize. O.K. But that means, it is possible, right?
You guys at CCP are putting a lot of effort into bringing new features to us, and most of them everybody likes and appreciates - but a new paintjob, a faction frig, a cool deployable, a revamp of skills & other stuff, whilst great, are not a "make or break" for the game experience. The tooltips, resp. the popups/lists in space, are a "make or brake". Why not put the effort there instead?
> If it is -for whatever reason- technically impossible to do the "ON/OFF" switch, what prevents you from going back to the working solution as off last week? Are those popup windows the "hobby horse" of one of your top managers? Is there a strategic decision taken to switch the target group for EVE from adults to boys age 5-10? What is it that prevents you from even taking this easy fix into consideration?
This is not a rhetorical question! This is to find out if it even makes sense to provide feedback. If there is an insurmountable barrier to fix the core problem of those tooltips (popups in space), please just let us know. It could save us all some time. |
Franky Saken
Mafia Redux
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:40:00 -
[590] - Quote
Still nothing about the delays or at least making those configurable.
Nothing about the tooltips showing up at random delays, I frapsed my client and it shows up at different delays for lists with more content.
Nothing about blocking other brackets behind the list which now takes even longer than before as I have to wait for both the current timeout to go away and then for the new one to show up and then possible scroll down to the right thing.
Nothing about the increased amount of mouse movement (nevermind adding in the scroll wheel which is terribly slow to handle) which just makes it mechanically harder (more actions) to select the same bracket as before.
For inventory, modules, and stuff this is a huge improvement, nice styling, but for in-space work it's terrible in its current incarnation. |
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gascanu
Bearing Srl.
124
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:05:00 -
[591] - Quote
WHEN are we going to get the OFF switch??? not if, when! you guys really want to shove this "stuff" down our throats?
are you ready for another of the " we will speak with our wallet" thingy?
do you really want to go there again? |
Drogan Antollare
Another Elite PvP Corp That Kills Stuff
5
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:09:00 -
[592] - Quote
Sarka Bathory wrote: Are those popup windows the "hobby horse" of one of your top managers? Is there a strategic decision taken to switch the target group for EVE from adults to boys age 5-10? What is it that prevents you from even taking this easy fix into consideration?
its called "dumbing down computer games" , its a new trend and can be found in ALOT of games lately. SHAME
I would use the minimal setting aswell (from the previous solution few post above ) |
Thak Dallocort
Null Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:13:00 -
[593] - Quote
Drogan Antollare wrote:Sarka Bathory wrote: Are those popup windows the "hobby horse" of one of your top managers? Is there a strategic decision taken to switch the target group for EVE from adults to boys age 5-10? What is it that prevents you from even taking this easy fix into consideration?
its called "dumbing down computer games" , its a new trend and can be found in ALOT of games lately. SHAME I would use the minimal setting aswell (from the previous solution few post above )
Maybe its a part of the 'Leave No Child Behind'/'Common Core" initiative? |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:15:00 -
[594] - Quote
this is 30th page of the the tread!
IT'S CLEAR THAT PPL WANT TURN OFF/ON SWITCH!
So DEV team will now do it! or reverse the patch
Their is no option they can or not!
it's simple. So give to your customers (which are paying your salary) what they want!! |
Celise Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:19:00 -
[595] - Quote
A option to turn off tool tips would be a good idea. Since they truly do clutter up the screen.
Kind regards Celise Katelo
[insert tool tip] [Error] = Cookies |
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:22:00 -
[596] - Quote
The tooltip of the skill queue used to auto-update while it was displayed, allowing us to quickly check if the skill was training (seconds ticking = good, seconds still = bad). This is no longer the case and even if the current skill is training, the tooltip will only show the time remaining when the tooltip was opened.
It's a small thing, but a slight annoyance. |
Drizzd
Eagle Construction Worx
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:41:00 -
[597] - Quote
I'm really astonished ... CCP - you run this game for over 10 years now - but you didnt learn a SINGLE thing from your player base.
If people tell you "it wasnt on the test server" - then I tent to believe the players who tested it - and it certainly wouldnt be the first change which got pushed through without proper testing while you insisted on "it was on the testservers" while in truth it wasnt.
those tooltips and especially the background-filling boxes are a PAIN - make them go away FAST or at least give me a switch
if you dont need money from your players please continue your course of action - else you should overthink your actions towards YOUR INCOME BASE
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21738
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:45:00 -
[598] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option. So make it one. I'm not kidding here. If there is one thing this thread should have communicated to you it is this: if the tool tips continue to exist in their current form, an on-off switch is a must.
It is also by far the more simple solution compared to the only other option: to make the tool tip exist behind all other UI elements so those elements can be interacted with without triggering anything in the tool tip.
Quote:To the list of things we will have ready to deploy very soon: That's a nice list. It does not seem to address the core problem with the tool tips, though: that they impede use of the UI. They slow the player down; they cover up critically important interaction spots; and they often offer redundant or confusing information that just creates information overflow. They do the exact opposite of what they're supposed to do GÇö instead of making the UI easier to use, they make it harder.
A slight increase in transparency does not fix the issue of the box blocking your view, because it's not just important to see what's behind the box GÇö we also have to be able to interact with it. Since the tool boxes currently seem to expand to fit what activated them, with a very generous max size, they end up taking up far more space than they need to.
The timer issue is in many cases just a problem of information being moved to tool tips when it was previously immediately available. This is also a bad solution, and it reeks of Hollywood:itis. Fancy UI lint looks good in movies but is horrid to work with. The space-portion of EVE is still a time-critical game so waiting for the UI to spit out crucial information is an absolute no-no, no matter how pretty it may look. Information must be immediate and we must be able to filter it to fit our use cases. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1786
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:56:00 -
[599] - Quote
The new tool tips have impeded my ability to do routine tasks such as docking to a station and warping to a specific celestial in a tightly grouped set of brackets, often increasing the time to do such routine tasks by many seconds/clicks. Further, they have hindered my ability to target specific ships via brackets in certain situations in pvp.
While I understand and support the desire to improve the UI, the new tooltips have decreased the quality of my gameplay experience. Please include an option to disable them. |
Jimmy Prophet
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 22:17:00 -
[600] - Quote
What beautiful black boxes covering up the amazing graphics of the game.
So i can see infomation about what i hover my mouse over very nice. Shame that i can't see anything else on the screen beyond a black box.
Also mirroring the fact that the grouping of options in space is not very good and again while trying to align i can't see where in space other objects are because of guess what a even bigger black box. Transparency would help but to be honest a option to revert to the old UI or more options for the user to customize their experience instead of a forced dumbing down of our own thought |
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