Predictive Mouse Movement

This release has a significant extra feature courtesy of some UI programming work done on the side: predictive mouse movement in menus.

Say what now? Well, whatGÇÖs happened is that a method has been added to predict if the mouse cursor is heading into an expanded menu, preventing a mouseover update on other UI elements if this is predicted to be so. This is enabled for the NeoCom menu, context menus and the new interactive tooltips.

...department of redundancy department.

The Star Map system tooltips have been much improved, with some streamlining and cleaning up of information. Where relevant they are also interactive: for example, with station listings when set to display services.

some examples of weird stuff:

http://i.imgur.com/G7dzIIA.jpg redundant as heck

http://i.imgur.com/9ieUlEp.jpg vanilla overview here highlighting a sun - star - sun. Again redundant and uneeded by anyone but the freshest players

http://i.imgur.com/LG5VTWY.jpg If you went a little bit fast with your moves and selected the wrong thing you cant see what it is now because of the warp button tool tip, hope thats not your pod warping to wrong gate and landing in bubbles :(

While some of these can become better with refinment and iteration, the easiest options is letting the players who can do without disable them.

The overview tool tip is nice. However, I just noticed that I expected the tooltip to display the name/corp/alliance info of a wreck I was heading towards.

Predictive mouse movement is great.

The tool-tips when hovering over items however have some troublesome behavior:

If I hover over a station in the overview window it just tells me: "Station". you-dont-say.jpg. It would make indefinitely more sense to show the full station name in the tool-tip because that's what I want to know.
Same when hovering over player ships, I don't want to know what kind of ship or my standing towards the pilot, I want to know the full pilot's name (and corp/alliance if that would be possible).

Then there seems to be a delay in the tool-tip popup, it takes up to a second for the tool-tip to show. I assume this is tied to the server tick, but previously I was able to immediately see the relevant information.

The tool-tips don't auto-update, if I keep hovering over a bracket, the distance displayed doesn't change.

By having a cluster of brackets in space pop up a tooltip window now you remove the ability that we once had to mouse over the grouped cluster of brackets when a target warps off to a cluster and have them separate by holding mouse over the cluster to see which one he warped to.

For example. Let's assume there are two asteroid belt brackets, a station bracket, and a POCO bracket in one cluster. A target warps to one of those in that cluster. By mousing over that cluster of brackets in space previously, they would separtate vertically and you could distinguish which bracket the target warped to. Be it the station, POCO, belt, etc... With a popping up spreadsheet as we now have with these new changes you can not.

Now as someone pointed out already, this example below is really stupid.

Hud -1

This is redundant.

Hud - 2

And I can't help but think to myself, if you do make these tooltips interactable, why not go all the way and do this:

Hud - 3?

That said: I do like they are not transparent and thus easy to read, but I'd like to see this configurable in the ESC menue along with delay and general color choice.

As for the overview, I'd like to see the option to disable all tooltips on the overview window. There's enough going on there I don't need any more.

Hey, perhaps you guys could tell me how to turn off tool tips in other software... like the browser you are currently using for instance.

I'm pretty sure that isn't the "click to turn it off" check box that people seem to think exists for all feature in all software.

Seriously, Chrome?

It is firefox actually - the window composition engine firefox is using is called chrome.

I trust you get my point however, unless you are suggesting that EVE work in the same fashion with warnings, special hidden pages, and innumerable ways to make sure you game doesn't function correctly available to the average user.

Now as someone pointed out already, this example below is really stupid.

Hud -1

This is redundant.

Hud -1

This is redundant.

Starmap system tooltips used to provide a lot of information at a glance. Now that information has been eliminated and we'll have to juggle a bunch of filters, show info windows and agent finder to find it. It's not as big of a deal as we can simply switch to dotlan for at a glance info like that.

However, there is one piece of crucial information which was not available anywhere else. It is a list of corporations that own an office in any particular station. For many corporations needing to find a new home (with the upcoming industry changes) this information is critical. It is gone now and the pilots will be forced to fly manually to every single station they're considering to find out who owns offices there and if there are any available. Even Dotlan does not provides that information.

My question is "Why did CCP remove our ability to see offices remotely?"
Did CCP consciously remove our ability to see it? Will it be provided with a different method? Did you guys forget about that aspect of the tooltip? If so when can we expect to have it back? Hopefully well ahead of industry changes.

Thank you for your anticipated response.

Niko

I am fairly sure that Trebor, who has been fighting for the predictive mouse (amazon menu hack) for years will be buying someone some vodka for this addition.

Yes, just like in Windows, Chrome, IE, Firefox, etc. Telling you what a symbol means is a good way to teach people what that symbol means.

What I find most annoying, is the added delay to the bracket "tooltip". Before the update, I was able to instantly get info on whichever object I howered my mouse over. No I have to lead the bracket for 1-2 seconds to get the info. During a fight this is pure horror and very disruptive.

You don't think this one is a little patronising.

The overview settings screen somewhat fits that description, many people struggle to find it until pointed there, and it offers a fair variety of ways to screw your experience up with zero feedback about what things do/affect until you learn how it works, hope you aren't suggesting we nuke that too due to its complexity/potential for disaster.

Other games have an 'Advanced options: here be dragons' page in their settings menus that allow significant customisation to take place, other than CCP not wanting to give us the option there is no real reason EVE couldn't have something similar.

Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.

Predictive mouse movement makes me so happy! Go Unicorns!

Tooltips are amazingly annoying.

Like really really annoying.

Like WTF where you thinking annoying.

Please give me an off button.

Hi,

The team is keeping a close eye on this thread (and the others preceding the dev blog), plus other sources of feedback, and we have some work in progress to adjust some aspects and deal with several cases where the new tooltip format is causing problems.

Specifically, we've been looking initially at:

• 'Mouse-over on icon column in overview'-only as trigger for new tooltip (this actually would also free us to have different tooltips for specific overview columns if there are cases where that is a benefit in general).


• Some defects with bracket tooltips (including large numbers of brackets breaking tooltips).


• Opacity of bracket tooltip listing.


• Bracket tooltip to not trigger in the case of singleton brackets (this should very much help with the scatter loot as well as other cases).


• Structures with timers and status information (offline, anchoring, etc) showing in the list-form tooltip for brackets.


• Some starmap tooltip defects.

That's not an exhaustive list and we've noted the comments about timing issues, among others, but certainly timing is a tricky balance.

Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.

We'll keep taking in all the feedback and use it in our ongoing design work. A major focus of this team is on improving new player experience by generally raising the level of the all-round player experience. We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.

After reviewing the changes, I really dislike the new tooltips. In fact, they are terrible. Here's why:

http://i.imgur.com/LYCBacJ.jpg

When you mouse over a collection of things, especially when you are zoomed out, you get a giant box that blocks your field of view. I already have an overview which takes up a good portion of my view, I don't need another overview popping up in space blocking what I am trying to look at.

Also, as Longdrinks pointed out above, most of the new tooltips are redundant, in addition to simply being in the way.

Please let me at least turn them off.

[Bug] Not sure if this is related to this change or not, but the white targeting brackets >< when targeting NPCs on the overview seem to now be behind the red cross instead of in front of them, which makes it very hard to tell if you have something targeted or not.

While we have you attention on UI stuff, why the hell does the selected item window minimize if i try to double-click a button(because your ui is pretty unresponsive and its better to mash a button then not have it happen) and miss it by 1 pixel it minizes the window. This means i have to use precious seconds to get it up again and most likely die if this is a pvp situation and i have to warp fast.

All fine and dandy the only problem is that in pursuit of better NPE you made UI worse for everybody.

And that is the same thing as you did on at least 2 other occasions: HUD tooltips and not persistent safety switch.

So, everybody from those teams is already gone to Riot or you just don't learn from previous experiences by choice?

Hi,

Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.

Can you think about this quickly please.
Jayem See's proposal is as eloquent a solution as can be had for this.

Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.

Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.

Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.

I can no longer deal with the pop up tool tips thing. I had to dock up until this is resolved. It's not because it's new. It's because it is more hindering then helpful.

Yes, just like in Windows, Chrome, IE, Firefox, etc. Telling you what a symbol means is a good way to teach people what that symbol means.

Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.

Actually, the overview settings page is pretty high on my list for things that (desperately need a rework). It can be confusing even to bittervets, and can easily get borked if you try to quickly make a few adjustments.

That whole system is by necessity pretty complicated, but it would be nice if it could be made easier to deal with.

Been playing this game for 5 years now. Can you please let me shut this completely useless redundancy off? I don't mind that it exists but I do mind that I have to deal with it.

You guys ran this change past the CSM before pushing it live right?

Right after reviewing the test server feedback?

My guess is that they mentioned it's supposed to help the NPE and Ripard Teg shouted everyone else down to give them the greenlight.

As someone who is new to EVE, computers, and life in general, I had no idea the little "x" at the top left corner of every window in every operating system, program, and game with windows closed the window on which it was placed until informed of such by the new "close" tooltip associated with the aforementioned symbol.

I, for one, feel this design philosophy needs to be expanded. Perhaps by creating a tooltip associated with every window to inform players that each window is, in fact, a window. To continue on this line of thought, a tooltip could be associated with each tooltip explaining that tooltips are, in fact, tooltips. A tooltip could also be associated with the cursor so when someone mouses over their cursor they can learn their cursor is, in fact, a cursor, with helpful information on how exactly to use the cursor and mouse. As we all know the first thing anyone does when they buy a new PC or MAC is install EVE online.


To cease being daft, we all know that accessibility = profit. But unless CCP is planning on selling EVE boxes (read: prefab computers that only play EVE) a fair portion of the new tooltips are unnecessary and, frankly, frightening. As they seem to have been created, approved, and rolled out by a company that is operating under the impression that somehow, someone would manage to start playing EVE online before they ever used a computer.

Hi,

*snip*

Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.

*snip*

There seems to be a number of websites and articles that explore this clever trick- the common popular cited reference implementation does seem to be Amazon, also reflected in the proposal of the feature in Reasonable Things as the 'Amazon menu hack'. It seems mildly dishonest to leave out this information and pass it off as your own- if this were a research paper, that would be plagiarism. That said, it's not too late to correct such an omission either.

*snip*
And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess:
WTF?
Seriously, WTF?
*snip*

To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens.

Mother of God...

GÇóOverview entries have tooltips showing icon, group name, and status information where applicable

Mother of God...

And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess:
WTF?
Seriously, WTF?

Affects acceleration and turning speed negatively as the mass increases

Affects acceleration and turning speed positively as the value decreases

Increasing the mass reduces acceleration and turning speed.

Increasing the inertia modifier reduces acceleration and turning speed

To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens.

To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens.

You're right, there's a tooltip.
And the delay for it is so long that I never knew it was there until you told me, for the many years that I've been using Windows.

You're right, there's a tooltip.
And the delay for it is so long that I never knew it was there until you told me, for the many years that I've been using Windows.

To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens.

You're a more patient man than I am. I gave up after 5 minutes.

Mother of God...

Hey, here's a quick question.

Precisely what problem was this intended to fix? What, in exact terms, was wrong with the old setup?

Making ready for the xbone and PS4 ports.

This is a disaster - where can I turn this crap off.

Try doing a data or relic site. The stupid tips obliterate the ability to get to tightly packed groups of cans.

FFS do you do any bloody testing, I would get fired at work for letting this through.

Can we disable the new tooltips?


The mouse prediction is a very nice addition though.

Can we disable the new tooltips?


The mouse prediction is a very nice addition though.

We need options as to what level of tooltips we want to use - many seem to be designed by the department of redundancy department.

Thumbs up on Amazon menu hack.

Redundant info 1
Thanks CCP, I didn't know those were tracking speed scripts and I didn't know how many I had.

Redundant info 2
This should really say "overview options". I know what my active overview configuration is, it's already listed like 15 pixels down and to the right.

Redundant info 3
The rest of the tooltip is nice, but it doesn't need to be titled. Again, this info is already shown.

Redundant info 4
This I kind of understand given how you've redone bracket tooltips, but you should really avoid showing this if it's just one bracket being shown.

Redundant info 5
Again, you don't need the title. The rest is fine.

This is not a pilot.

There is only one Sun. This is a star.

This module doesn't even have a fitting window tooltip.
(Energized Armor Layering Membrane II)

And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess:
WTF?
Seriously, WTF?


Also:
I know what minimize and close are. Everyone who has ever used a computer in the past 20 years knows what these are. They do not need tooltips.

The tooltips in space are awful, slow, and when you stack many items together the tooltip blocks out a significant portion of the screen entirely. The previous tooltips are far superior.

For example, I know the fitting of my ship, I know what does what and when to use what module. So having a tooltip pop-up every time I activate or deactivate a module is way over the top. Also game breaking as I had it several times already that I wanted to overheat a module (not the entire rack) and the tooltip obscured the already not that big green bar on the module. Resulting in a misclick half of the time.

Second, what about making some tooltips newbie-only? By which I mean, hide them (with option to re-enable?) after the player is no longer able to join Rookie Chat. For example, the "stargate" and "station" ones are ones that most veteran eve players *should* know, but might help a new player map symbols to type of space object.

At this point I think we have proof positive that the UI team does not actually play the game.

It's funny you mention this, because the tooltips on the modules have been in-game for a long time...maybe even over a year? Also fwiw you can shift + click on a mod to overheat it; much easier than hitting the green bar.

Fwiw that's no excuse for the tiny overheat buttons.

Hey, here's a quick question.

Precisely what problem was this intended to fix? What, in exact terms, was wrong with the old setup?

Information was hard to discover in-game ("Targeting? 20.0 points? What the ****?") and some displays of information were unhelpful. It was hard to tell what ship class you were fighting if you didn't have all of the name -> class mappings memorized (this, memorably, lead to me killing a blackbird in a catalyst because I thought blackbirds were frigates).

Now some different displays are redundant, but others are much more helpful. The scrolling thing and the big black box issues were acknowledged by CCP DelegateZero earlier in the thread. The existence of tooltips at all-- the module tooltips, the tooltips on the fitting window and station services screen-- will be something that vets will likely adapt to and ignore, just as we ignored the old tooltips.

"This is the worst feature since ______" is unhelpful feedback; "This is interfering with my ability to do ________, __________, and ________ because I'm trying to x and instead y happens" is useful stuff that CCP can use to actually improve the feature (or kill it, as they have with loot scatter!). If you're interested in a better game for yourself, I'd suggest using the latter language, or at least pretending you're talking to a real person standing in front of you when drafting your post.

keybombos for things doesnt update on the new tooltips, so if you are a complete baller and have modules set to
qwert
asdfg
zxv

It wont show in the tooltips. Again, did you even test this?

[quote=Kaarous Aldurald]
"This is the worst feature since ______" is unhelpful feedback; "This is interfering with my ability to do ________, __________, and ________ because I'm trying to x and instead y happens" is useful stuff that CCP can use to actually improve the feature (or kill it, as they have with loot scatter!). If you're interested in a better game for yourself, I'd suggest using the latter language, or at least pretending you're talking to a real person standing in front of you when drafting your post.

actually i have the same setup as u longbro and it seems to work for me http://puu.sh/8LmnF.jpg

[Bug] Not sure if this is related to this change or not, but the white targeting brackets >< when targeting NPCs on the overview seem to now be behind the red cross instead of in front of them, which makes it very hard to tell if you have something targeted or not.

The game is not made by people who actually play it themselves, this is yet another example of this. Anyone who ACTUALLY plays, beyond afk mining in a mackinaw, would instantly realise this is no good.

Information was hard to discover in-game ("Targeting? 20.0 points? What the ****?") and some displays of information were unhelpful.

It was hard to tell what ship class you were fighting if you didn't have all of the name -> class mappings memorised (this, memorably, lead to me killing a blackbird in a catalyst because I thought blackbirds were frigates).

"This is the worst feature since ______" is unhelpful feedback; "This is interfering with my ability to do ________, __________, and ________ because I'm trying to x and instead y happens" is useful stuff that CCP can use to actually improve the feature (or kill it, as they have with loot scatter!). If you're interested in a better game for yourself, I'd suggest using the latter language, or at least pretending you're talking to a real person standing in front of you when drafting your post.

The game is not made by people who actually play it themselves, this is yet another example of this. Anyone who ACTUALLY plays, beyond afk mining in a mackinaw, would instantly realise this is no good.

OK, tooltips and NPE... ALL good stuff!! And for me, after hearing definitively from CCP Seagull that Solo, casual and small gang players are important and WILL be included in the new vision for EVE... this is just one more improvement I can get behind.

I do have a question though (and no I have not checked out the patch yet...) but... for those who don't 'need' em... can the tooltips be disabled? I know very well what my mods do and actually having them pop up ALL the time is a little frustrating. Please consider having this (as many things should) be a choice, not a necessity.

Other than that THANX!!

[http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html]

Hi,

The team is keeping a close eye on this thread (and the others preceding the dev blog), plus other sources of feedback, and we have some work in progress to adjust some aspects and deal with several cases where the new tooltip format is causing problems.

Specifically, we've been looking initially at:

• 'Mouse-over on icon column in overview'-only as trigger for new tooltip (this actually would also free us to have different tooltips for specific overview columns if there are cases where that is a benefit in general).


• Some defects with bracket tooltips (including large numbers of brackets breaking tooltips).


• Opacity of bracket tooltip listing.


• Bracket tooltip to not trigger in the case of singleton brackets (this should very much help with the scatter loot as well as other cases).


• Structures with timers and status information (offline, anchoring, etc) showing in the list-form tooltip for brackets.


• Some starmap tooltip defects.

That's not an exhaustive list and we've noted the comments about timing issues, among others, but certainly timing is a tricky balance.

Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.

We'll keep taking in all the feedback and use it in our ongoing design work. A major focus of this team is on improving new player experience by generally raising the level of the all-round player experience. We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.

Here's a video of me highlighting and replication steps of some the issues I've been having with the new tooltip stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emBHRNzMI9E&feature=youtu.be

almost no lense flare / dubstep just my **** voice
plz like comment and subscribe

edit: also it looks like the map hasn't been updated with this new tooltip system so u can see pretty clearly http://puu.sh/8LlJs.png how it would have worked before

My problem is that the tooltips on the mini-containers from Data and Relic sites are *MUCH* slower than the old name popups - making it much much more difficult to find and click on the mini-containers that you need to retrieve. MUCH slower.

This is a disaster - where can I turn this crap off.

Try doing a data or relic site. The stupid tips obliterate the ability to get to tightly packed groups of cans.

FFS do you do any bloody testing, I would get fired at work for letting this through.