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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Marc Durant
65
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Posted - 2014.08.02 11:41:00 -
[871] - Quote
Janice en Marland wrote:The Ishtar with 5 DDA2 and Garde 2=766 DPS. Dominix with 6 DDA2 and Garde 2 =773. I know its silly to add this many but the Dominix can bring more DPS WITHOUT factoring in the two extra highs.
Thank you for disqualifying yourself. EFT warrior shitfit nonsense where you use 6 damage mods to support your frantic attempt to "hide" how a ship is overpowered is hilarious, and quite entertaining. Yes, yes-áI am. Thanks for noticing.
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Janice en Marland
Cross Saber Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 11:47:00 -
[872] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Janice en Marland wrote:This is just silly. I thought the "battlship level DPS" meant DPS numbers obtained from a battleship. Not DPS to 90k. An Eos with Heavys and Blasters and produce Battleship level DPS while providing links. You're thinking of paper DPS, a HAM tengu can get there, but the DPS is useless unless you can actually project it. Megas, Apocs, TFI can all project good DPS at range but ishtar can do it while being close to untouchable with better resists (but less EHP) at speeds up to 2.7k/s. On a domi this is not an issue as bombs wreck havoc to them due to size and lower resist profile. An Eos with blasters and heavy drone applies more DPS in optimal than an Ishtar with sentries. A Dominix with heavies and blasters applies more DPS in optimal than the Eos. See how that progresses. |
Janice en Marland
Cross Saber Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 11:54:00 -
[873] - Quote
Marc Durant wrote:Janice en Marland wrote:The Ishtar with 5 DDA2 and Garde 2=766 DPS. Dominix with 6 DDA2 and Garde 2 =773. I know its silly to add this many but the Dominix can bring more DPS WITHOUT factoring in the two extra highs. Thank you for disqualifying yourself. EFT warrior shitfit nonsense where you use 6 damage mods to support your frantic attempt to "hide" how a ship is overpowered is hilarious, and quite entertaining. Mudsling all you want. The Dominix can bring(and project) more DPS with sentries than an Ishtar. |
Marc Durant
65
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 11:59:00 -
[874] - Quote
Perhaps we should all just come to the easy conclusion that you're too stupid to poop. Yes, yes-áI am. Thanks for noticing.
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Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
211
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 11:59:00 -
[875] - Quote
Janice en Marland wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Janice en Marland wrote:This is just silly. I thought the "battlship level DPS" meant DPS numbers obtained from a battleship. Not DPS to 90k. An Eos with Heavys and Blasters and produce Battleship level DPS while providing links. You're thinking of paper DPS, a HAM tengu can get there, but the DPS is useless unless you can actually project it. Megas, Apocs, TFI can all project good DPS at range but ishtar can do it while being close to untouchable with better resists (but less EHP) at speeds up to 2.7k/s. On a domi this is not an issue as bombs wreck havoc to them due to size and lower resist profile. An Eos with blasters and heavy drone applies more DPS in optimal than an Ishtar with sentries. A Dominix with heavies and blasters applies more DPS in optimal than the Eos. See how that progresses.
Yet you will not be able to hit an enemy fleet with that. I suggest you take part in a fleet fight against Ishtars with domis and wonder why you cannot hit them. |
Janice en Marland
Cross Saber Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 12:06:00 -
[876] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Janice en Marland wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Janice en Marland wrote:This is just silly. I thought the "battlship level DPS" meant DPS numbers obtained from a battleship. Not DPS to 90k. An Eos with Heavys and Blasters and produce Battleship level DPS while providing links. You're thinking of paper DPS, a HAM tengu can get there, but the DPS is useless unless you can actually project it. Megas, Apocs, TFI can all project good DPS at range but ishtar can do it while being close to untouchable with better resists (but less EHP) at speeds up to 2.7k/s. On a domi this is not an issue as bombs wreck havoc to them due to size and lower resist profile. An Eos with blasters and heavy drone applies more DPS in optimal than an Ishtar with sentries. A Dominix with heavies and blasters applies more DPS in optimal than the Eos. See how that progresses. Yet you will not be able to hit an enemy fleet with that. I suggest you take part in a fleet fight against Ishtars with domis and wonder why you cannot hit them. I have already stated the Dominix is not the counter to Ishtars. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
232
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 12:11:00 -
[877] - Quote
Marc Durant wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Marc Durant wrote:
That's funny, your 589 dps is the exact number you get when you use fury and OH. There is no other way to get even remotely close to that dps number at ~100km. You could get close to it if you'd use a silly fit or include the awesome dps gain from those 3 lights and somehow assume they apply damage at 100km.
589 is the exact number with using Fury, OH and 3 bcs.
Try heavy, 4 bcs (why not, you assume 4 on ishtar for 750 all the time), rig and implants, because YOU can :) Because the Ishtar has 5 lows whereas the Cerb has 4, if this needs to be explained to you then just stop now. Also, go compare your rof rigged & implanted dps to a Raven that does the same, guess what... the Raven does more.
Exactly. My point previously about fury was they are some fine EFT DPS but the application is absolutely dismal. Unless, like I said it's a mwd shield tanked BC+
Cerberus isn't even in the same league as an Ishtar - but then, not should it be. Could still use an application bonus though as with only two rig slots that really hurts |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 12:28:00 -
[878] - Quote
Marc Durant wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Marc Durant wrote:
That's funny, your 589 dps is the exact number you get when you use fury and OH. There is no other way to get even remotely close to that dps number at ~100km. You could get close to it if you'd use a silly fit or include the awesome dps gain from those 3 lights and somehow assume they apply damage at 100km.
589 is the exact number with using Fury, OH and 3 bcs.
Try heavy, 4 bcs (why not, you assume 4 on ishtar for 750 all the time), rig and implants, because YOU can :) Because the Ishtar has 5 lows whereas the Cerb has 4, if this needs to be explained to you then just stop now. Also, go compare your rof rigged & implanted dps to a Raven that does the same, guess what... the Raven does more.
Yes because 33dps whether + or - is all we are talking about.
We are not talking about nerfing the raven, are we?
Are you getting lost?
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 12:36:00 -
[879] - Quote
afkalt wrote:
Exactly. My point previously about fury was they are some fine EFT DPS but the application is absolutely dismal. Unless, like I said it's a mwd shield tanked BC+
Cerberus isn't even in the same league as an Ishtar - but then, not should it be. Could still use an application bonus though as with only two rig slots that really hurts
Because the weapon system you leave behind and can be destroyed needs the same application as the one you dont and cant.
Isnt this the same argument as artys should require cap use because their alpha is high? |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
856
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 12:44:00 -
[880] - Quote
I placed the core of this idea earlier, and have been reading all the comments in the thread. There is a real polarisation of ideas here, some do not see the problem as real or significant ( possibly because they enjoy things as they are?) Some see the ishtar as the spawn of the devil and believe it must die at all costs. Some see sentry drones as the problem as they believe they are a battleship weapon, though this argument also applies to the battlecruisers in the same breath.
IF and I Repeat IF there is a problem with the ishtar as it stands I suggest that the following would change the meta of the ship in its entirety while still giving the ship a role that people would wish to employ.
Allow the ship to fly and specialise in MEDIUM drones, retain bonus to speed of drones, reduce drone bay to 250 and boost them to 80%-85% the same damage levels as are currently applied by their respective racial heavies, however retain 5 mediums and do not further increase hit points beyond current bonuses.
Remove the hit point bonus from sentries on this ship.
Keep the other bonuses unchanged.
This allows the ship to have SOME of the advantages of the gila, some reduced, and some improved over the Gila. It can still field sentry drones effectively but only 2 flights of sentries that are easier to destroy, it will have fast powerful mediums, which again are destructible as they do not gain the HERO benefits to hit points.
The new meta will give choices that need to be balanced against risk. The ship will still have a desirable role, if somewhat different.
This is not a suggestion to NERF the Ishtar, it is to change the focus of the ship, retaining it as a powerful HAC but changing the focus from sentries with their associated instant damage application.....
Alternatively create a role for a HAC to be a specialised sentry drone killer capable of destroying them at warden ranges. Please note that heavy drones would NOT be suitable to replace the mediums suggested. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
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Janice en Marland
Cross Saber Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 12:49:00 -
[881] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:I placed the core of this idea earlier, and have been reading all the comments in the thread. There is a real polarisation of ideas here, some do not see the problem as real or significant ( possibly because they enjoy things as they are?) Some see the ishtar as the spawn of the devil and believe it must die at all costs. Some see sentry drones as the problem as they believe they are a battleship weapon, though this argument also applies to the battlecruisers in the same breath.
IF and I Repeat IF there is a problem with the ishtar as it stands I suggest that the following would change the meta of the ship in its entirety while still giving the ship a role that people would wish to employ.
Allow the ship to fly and specialise in MEDIUM drones, retain bonus to speed of drones, reduce drone bay to 250 and boost them to 80%-85% the same damage levels as are currently applied by their respective racial heavies, however retain 5 mediums and do not further increase hit points beyond current bonuses.
Remove the hit point bonus from sentries on this ship.
Keep the other bonuses unchanged.
This allows the ship to have SOME of the advantages of the gila, some reduced, and some improved over the Gila. It can still field sentry drones effectively but only 2 flights of sentries that are easier to destroy, it will have fast powerful mediums, which again are destructible as they do not gain the HERO benefits to hit points.
The new meta will give choices that need to be balanced against risk. The ship will still have a desirable role, if somewhat different.
This is not a suggestion to NERF the Ishtar, it is to change the focus of the ship, retaining it as a powerful HAC but changing the focus from sentries with their associated instant damage application.....
Alternatively create a role for a HAC to be a specialised sentry drone killer capable of destroying them at warden ranges. Please note that heavy drones would NOT be suitable to replace the mediums suggested. It seems to much like a Gila. I do like the hit point bonus removal though. Another suggestion I seen was adding medium sentries. That would be interesting.
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epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
856
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 12:57:00 -
[882] - Quote
Janice en Marland wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:I placed the core of this idea earlier, and have been reading all the comments in the thread. There is a real polarisation of ideas here, some do not see the problem as real or significant ( possibly because they enjoy things as they are?) Some see the ishtar as the spawn of the devil and believe it must die at all costs. Some see sentry drones as the problem as they believe they are a battleship weapon, though this argument also applies to the battlecruisers in the same breath.
IF and I Repeat IF there is a problem with the ishtar as it stands I suggest that the following would change the meta of the ship in its entirety while still giving the ship a role that people would wish to employ.
Allow the ship to fly and specialise in MEDIUM drones, retain bonus to speed of drones, reduce drone bay to 250 and boost them to 80%-85% the same damage levels as are currently applied by their respective racial heavies, however retain 5 mediums and do not further increase hit points beyond current bonuses.
Remove the hit point bonus from sentries on this ship.
Keep the other bonuses unchanged.
This allows the ship to have SOME of the advantages of the gila, some reduced, and some improved over the Gila. It can still field sentry drones effectively but only 2 flights of sentries that are easier to destroy, it will have fast powerful mediums, which again are destructible as they do not gain the HERO benefits to hit points.
The new meta will give choices that need to be balanced against risk. The ship will still have a desirable role, if somewhat different.
This is not a suggestion to NERF the Ishtar, it is to change the focus of the ship, retaining it as a powerful HAC but changing the focus from sentries with their associated instant damage application.....
Alternatively create a role for a HAC to be a specialised sentry drone killer capable of destroying them at warden ranges. Please note that heavy drones would NOT be suitable to replace the mediums suggested. It seems to much like a Gila. I do like the hit point bonus removal though. Another suggestion I seen was adding medium sentries. That would be interesting.
Unlike the Gila it has a different overall Flavour, it will still be a boat capable of deploying sentries effectively, and deploying Powerful medium drones, however, in exchange for better medium damage and speed, and the ability to deploy sentries, they will have more vulnerable drones. The ship is overall more fragile as well and will tend to operate at different ranges under most circumstances.
A fair and balanced exchange. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
866
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 13:02:00 -
[883] - Quote
they changed the gila because it was too similar too the ishtar .... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Janice en Marland
Cross Saber Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 13:13:00 -
[884] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Janice en Marland wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:I placed the core of this idea earlier, and have been reading all the comments in the thread. There is a real polarisation of ideas here, some do not see the problem as real or significant ( possibly because they enjoy things as they are?) Some see the ishtar as the spawn of the devil and believe it must die at all costs. Some see sentry drones as the problem as they believe they are a battleship weapon, though this argument also applies to the battlecruisers in the same breath.
IF and I Repeat IF there is a problem with the ishtar as it stands I suggest that the following would change the meta of the ship in its entirety while still giving the ship a role that people would wish to employ.
Allow the ship to fly and specialise in MEDIUM drones, retain bonus to speed of drones, reduce drone bay to 250 and boost them to 80%-85% the same damage levels as are currently applied by their respective racial heavies, however retain 5 mediums and do not further increase hit points beyond current bonuses.
Remove the hit point bonus from sentries on this ship.
Keep the other bonuses unchanged.
This allows the ship to have SOME of the advantages of the gila, some reduced, and some improved over the Gila. It can still field sentry drones effectively but only 2 flights of sentries that are easier to destroy, it will have fast powerful mediums, which again are destructible as they do not gain the HERO benefits to hit points.
The new meta will give choices that need to be balanced against risk. The ship will still have a desirable role, if somewhat different.
This is not a suggestion to NERF the Ishtar, it is to change the focus of the ship, retaining it as a powerful HAC but changing the focus from sentries with their associated instant damage application.....
Alternatively create a role for a HAC to be a specialised sentry drone killer capable of destroying them at warden ranges. Please note that heavy drones would NOT be suitable to replace the mediums suggested. It seems to much like a Gila. I do like the hit point bonus removal though. Another suggestion I seen was adding medium sentries. That would be interesting. Unlike the Gila it has a different overall Flavour, it will still be a boat capable of deploying sentries effectively, and deploying Powerful medium drones, however, in exchange for better medium damage and speed, and the ability to deploy sentries, they will have more vulnerable drones. The ship is overall more fragile as well compared to a fully skilled Gila, and will tend to operate at different ranges under most circumstances. A fair and balanced exchange. I see the Ishtar as the entry level for heavy and sentry drone and I think a medium drone bonused ship would only encourage medium drone training. Until you get to an Eos or Dominix/Armageddon (assuming the VNI would also suffer this fate), you wouldn't be able to field a full flight of either and they would probably need a buff to encourage training for. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
856
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 13:15:00 -
[885] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:they changed the gila because it was too similar too the ishtar ....
Yes the ishtar will still be able to field sentries, unlike the gila, and the ishtar will not gain near invulnerable hero drones.
Fragility vs DPS quite different.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Janice en Marland
Cross Saber Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 13:28:00 -
[886] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Harvey James wrote:they changed the gila because it was too similar too the ishtar .... Yes the ishtar will still be able to field sentries, unlike the gila, and the ishtar will not gain near invulnerable hero drones. Fragility vs DPS quite different. And in answer to above post, heavy drones will still apply more damage than mediums, so still a valid option to train for. There is still bandwidth to use, and bay for both a flight of heavies and sentries if you choose. no change to bandwidth is suggested. Currently, the Gila only gets 41 less DPS with two Hammerheads compared to 5 Gardes on an Ishtar with no damage mods and 95 more with Ogres but this doesn't account for tracking and speed. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
856
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 13:40:00 -
[887] - Quote
Janice en Marland wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Harvey James wrote:they changed the gila because it was too similar too the ishtar .... Yes the ishtar will still be able to field sentries, unlike the gila, and the ishtar will not gain near invulnerable hero drones. Fragility vs DPS quite different. And in answer to above post, heavy drones will still apply more damage than mediums, so still a valid option to train for. There is still bandwidth to use, and bay for both a flight of heavies and sentries if you choose. no change to bandwidth is suggested. Currently, the Gila only gets 41 less DPS with two Hammerheads compared to 5 Gardes on an Ishtar with no damage mods and 95 more with Ogres but this doesn't account for tracking and speed.
It is suggested in the original suggestion that the medium drones are balanced for damage and hit-points completely differently from the gila, rather than I repost it all, you will see that there is still a role for all of the applicable drones rather than making any one choice an automatic default due to it being the only effective one. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
232
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 13:57:00 -
[888] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:afkalt wrote:
Exactly. My point previously about fury was they are some fine EFT DPS but the application is absolutely dismal. Unless, like I said it's a mwd shield tanked BC+
Cerberus isn't even in the same league as an Ishtar - but then, not should it be. Could still use an application bonus though as with only two rig slots that really hurts
Because the weapon system you leave behind and can be destroyed needs the same application as the one you dont and cant. Isnt this the same argument as artys should require cap use because their alpha is high?
HML can't even hit inside their own size class remotely properly. Sentries tear up EVERYTHING. Leaving the weapon behind is advantageous as you can pull and keep the enemy in its optimal - or force them to lose point. It's hardly a severe disadvantage and one trivialised further by being able to restock post battle via depots. You can carry plenty for any normal engagement. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 15:52:00 -
[889] - Quote
afkalt wrote: HML can't even hit inside their own size class remotely properly. Sentries tear up EVERYTHING. Leaving the weapon behind is advantageous as you can pull and keep the enemy in its optimal - or force them to lose point. It's hardly a severe disadvantage and one trivialised further by being able to restock post battle via depots. You can carry plenty for any normal engagement.
You can carry 2 flights at best (or loose the performace at 100km and any ecm drones you might want to have) before restock.
The drop and pull is very same as kiting isnt it?
If we can add the depot with a 1min online to the situation, we can also add rlml, cannot we?
If you said that sentrys are to hard to destroy in pvp, you might get some agreement, but you didnt, so you dont. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 16:07:00 -
[890] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote: It is suggested in the original suggestion that the medium drones are balanced for damage and hit-points completely differently from the gila, rather than I repost it all, you will see that there is still a role for all of the applicable drones rather than making any one choice an automatic default due to it being the only effective one.
So we arrive at:
Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light, Medium and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage 10% bonus to Sentry Drone damage
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 5000m bonus to Drone operation range 7.5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range and tracking speed 5% bonus to Medium Drone damage (<-- random number, didnt do the math)
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty
Are you sure this is enough to change the percieved pvp situation, 33% reduction in its sentry hp? |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
232
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 16:11:00 -
[891] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:afkalt wrote: HML can't even hit inside their own size class remotely properly. Sentries tear up EVERYTHING. Leaving the weapon behind is advantageous as you can pull and keep the enemy in its optimal - or force them to lose point. It's hardly a severe disadvantage and one trivialised further by being able to restock post battle via depots. You can carry plenty for any normal engagement.
You can carry 2 flights at best (or loose the performace at 100km and any ecm drones you might want to have) before restock. The drop and pull is very same as kiting isnt it? If we can add the depot with a 1min online to the situation, we can also add rlml, cannot we? If you said that sentrys are to hard to destroy in pvp, you might get some agreement, but you didnt, so you dont.
I meant to restock after the fight, not during.
The point I am making is that trying to compare paper fury DPS numbers is a joke, given their application - or utter lack thereof.
Edit: it's kiting where getting 'caught' doesn't matter and getting under guns is impossible. |
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
45
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 16:35:00 -
[892] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:One small addition - I'm going to even out the cargo capacity on HACs some in this release, the Zealot's very sad 260 cargo was very annoying.
I sincerely hope that the last 11 pages was mainly everyone pointing fingers and laughing at Rise.
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
942
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 16:44:00 -
[893] - Quote
I think with the recent drone changes you should just limit the bonuses to like sized drones.
IE. Frigs/Dessies = Light Drones Cruisers/BC = Medium Drones BS = Heavy AND Sentry Drones Carriers = Fighters Supers = Fighters/Bombers
Ships will still be able to field other sized drones (ex. Ishtar using Sentries) but they will be non-bonused.
I think this hits the most birds with one feather. It will reduce Carrier proliferation somewhat (especially in conjunction with the Assist change) and it will give drone battleships a unique utility in the sense they would be the only class with good up/down damage via sentries, and the changes to drone assist help alleviate potential over use of Domis again.
If you truly want drones to be a weapon system like turrets and launchers, then you need to break down the sizes and bonuses them accordingly like all other weapon types.
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 18:20:00 -
[894] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:I think with the recent drone changes you should just limit the bonuses to like sized drones.
IE. Frigs/Dessies = Light Drones Cruisers/BC = Medium Drones BS = Heavy AND Sentry Drones Carriers = Fighters Supers = Fighters/Bombers
Ships will still be able to field other sized drones (ex. Ishtar using Sentries) but they will be non-bonused.
I think this hits the most birds with one feather. It will reduce Carrier proliferation somewhat (especially in conjunction with the Assist change) and it will give drone battleships a unique utility in the sense they would be the only class with good up/down damage via sentries, and the changes to drone assist help alleviate potential over use of Domis again.
If you truly want drones to be a weapon system like turrets and launchers, then you need to break down the sizes and bonuses them accordingly like all other weapon types.
How will this change anything about carriers ? What you seem to suggest is already reality for carriers. Or do you mean reduction to 10 or 5 drones that are not fighters? |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
76
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 20:03:00 -
[895] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest? 8/6/5 and we can have the oversized Hurricane we always wanted.
Or just fly a Mach, I guess. |
Syd Unknown
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 22:15:00 -
[896] - Quote
Madbuster73 wrote:Muninn needs more then just a speed buff..... Muninn has always been very underwhelming. It used to good as a snipingboat popping frigates, but since they buffed frigates and nerfed Tracking enhancers, the Muninn was not seen much anymore.
For Example: Muninn has way less TANK compared to the other HACs Muninn has way less EFFECTIVE RANGE compared to other HACS (while at its core it is a sniping ship)
For comparison I looked up the numbers for the most used Doctrines of these ships:
Armor Zealot ----------63k EHP-- with 406 dps at --44k-- optimal with -0.076- Tracking with Scorch[/u] Rail Eagle--------------50k EHP-- with 430 dps at --46k-- optimal with -0.033- Tracking Navy Antimatter Shield Ishtar-----------45k EHP-- with 700 dps at --48k-- optimal with -0.049- Tracking with Gardes Artillery Muninn--------38k EHP-- with 450 dps at --27k-- optimal with -0.042- Tracking with RF EMP
When you look at those stats it is clear the the Muninn needs more tank and more Optimal/Fallof range to be at par with the rest. You can also clearly see that the eagle could use a bit more tracking speed.
I hope you will give the Muninn some love.
^^ This |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1456
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 23:57:00 -
[897] - Quote
Now put MF on that Zealot and tell me what it's DPS & range are. Also try putting fall off ranges on all those range figures. Since you didn't bother to list them at all then talk about how it needs more range. And ship speeds.
Ignoring Ishtar, the Muninn is actually putting out the most DPS of the three HAC's you listed, so obviously it's range won't be as much. What your figures actually say is the Ishtar is totally OP. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 00:36:00 -
[898] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Now put MF on that Zealot and tell me what it's DPS & range are. Also try putting fall off ranges on all those range figures. Since you didn't bother to list them at all then talk about how it needs more range. And ship speeds.
Ignoring Ishtar, the Muninn is actually putting out the most DPS of the three HAC's you listed, so obviously it's range won't be as much. What your figures actually say is the Ishtar is totally OP.
How do you figure? He listed optimal as thats where you can put out the highest possible damage. Once you hit fall-off, dps begins to drop. Fall-off is not necessary for the discussion he was making. The zealots/muninn/eagle/ishtar all provide "optimal" bonuses, not fall-off. All ships are meant as long range snipers (arty/rail/sentries/beam or scorch) that apply a large portion of their DPS at those ranges.
Even if we do factor in fall-off, the muninn may have better dps, but at the minimum optimal of the other HAC's (44km) its doing 149dps. Nothing to really get excited about. Compare that to the 406 of the zealot at its optimal, not including fall-off on the zeal. Meaning, the other hac's can project and apply DPS much better than muninn.
I see more zeal's/ishtars and even eagles than muninns nowadays. There's a reason for that. Its just not good at anything it was intended for, and is in need of a buff.
Perhaps if they gave tremor ammo a big buff, you could artificially raise optimal on muninn, and still put out reasonable dps. As it sits now, you could do 229dps out to 80-90km with tremor.. or maybe buff optimal on medium artillery. Even with those fixes though, muninn still needs a buff to PG and possibly adding a mid. |
Janice en Marland
Cross Saber Holdings
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:48:00 -
[899] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Now put MF on that Zealot and tell me what it's DPS & range are. Also try putting fall off ranges on all those range figures. Since you didn't bother to list them at all then talk about how it needs more range. And ship speeds.
Ignoring Ishtar, the Muninn is actually putting out the most DPS of the three HAC's you listed, so obviously it's range won't be as much. What your figures actually say is the Ishtar is totally OP. I though Gallente was DPS, Amarr tracking, Minmatar alpha, and Caldari range. It seems like all is in line if you look at it like that (except the Eagle). |
Higgs Maken
The Metal Box Company Confederated States of EVE
21
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Posted - 2014.08.03 01:21:00 -
[900] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote: ( possibly because they enjoy things as they are?)
Anyone who disagree with you must have an hidden agenda right? Come on Ishtar has been using 5 sentry drones for the past few years, and it's fine then, why it is OP now? Sentry is fine on Ishtar then, why is sentry a battleship weapon now? Why now? Address that! Instead of simply claiming Ishtar is OP we need to nerf it, blah blah blah. You do that, I would have to ask the mandatory question: point on the doll which part did Ishtar touch you. Make your case before you give suggestion to fix the 'problem'.
Do you know why Rise change 'Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range'? Because that one of the more recent change to that hull. |
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