Why balance the Ishtar slowly and not just straight away? I read through the first 30 pages of this thread and all the areas that need to be considered have been intelligently highlighted, and actually repeated quite a few times.


Oh and please can you give new subscribers a large learning speed advantage for example 5x learning speed for first 6 weeks? I want less empty systems!


BUFF NOOBS FILL SERVER VERY GOOD


Cheers

power creep is done because people cry loads about nerfs, even though buffing 1 thing is basically the same as nerfing everything other than that thing. if you disagree, you're terrible.

And nerfing one thing is basically the same as buffing everything else against that one thing... what's your point? Nerfs lead to power creep just as easily as buffs do, it's just the direction of the creep that changes. If you disagree, you're even more terrible.

Power creep is an inevitable result of adding variety to a game. The only way to avoid power creep is to achieve relative balance and then not implement anything new or unique ever again. Which is an even faster way to kill EVE than accepting power creep as an inevitability of change, and trying to manage it accordingly.

The only difference between nerfing and buffing is the number of people you **** off when you get it wrong.

And nerfing one thing is basically the same as buffing everything else against that one thing...

No its not. Power creep happens when you buff a few ships to balance them with an overpowered ship which then makes all of those ships overpowered so you have to buff even more ships leading to a neverending spiral of buffs.

Nerfing the overpowered ship fixes the problem.

Game theory as taught by who, acti-blizzard? Get out, you know nothing.

Another thing to consider is that this power creep not only affects PvP but isk / hour potential thus messing with the game economy.

No its not. Power creep happens when you buff a few ships to balance them with an overpowered ship which then makes all of those ships overpowered so you have to buff even more ships leading to a neverending spiral of buffs.

Nerfing the overpowered ship fixes the problem.

EVE isn't a trading card game.

Reduce heavy drone bandwidth to 20, reduce ishtar bandwidth to remove BATTLESHIP class weapon from CRUISER Hull.

Either that or give me an Eagle that can fit large hybrids and watch hilarity ensue.

KTHNXBYE

...

I like when new players come to the game and they ask me what's the best ship in game and I have to explain to them that such a thing does not exist and that they will have to develop their own play style and see what works best for them .

This game isn't WoW and I'd rather not turn it into that.

Not when the result is that neither that ship neither the other ones are used.

Power creep is not a great end goal in itself, but neither is power slide or a race to the bottom.

If a ship is out of balance, ask CCP to create an effective counter to it, then you get more choice and a wider range of possibilities and a richer more enjoyable game..

Of course alternatively, nerf Drake, Nerf Heavy missiles, nerf ishtar, always works out so well doesn't it.......

We use near every ship now. So, that theory of yours doesn't hold up.

Creating an effective counter to Ishtar also creates an effective counter to anything which kites at 2k+ speeds, has capless BS weapons, can swap out guns on-demand and uses no fitting for said guns for beefier tank.

That ship will outclass most of all the other ships also and we are left with 1 OP, 1 good and a legion of sub-par ships.

Only way to create an Ishtar-counter is to have a ship with 1m sig radius, 5k+ speed, 40k scram range, 1 turret and 15 000% damage bonus to the single turret against Ishtars only.

Sentry drones have enormous downsides. They can be killed like other drones AND they don't return to your ship. There's a reason they were never used at all until assist + these tracking/optimal bonuses came along.

Not true at all on the battleship level.

Not true at all on the battleship level.

Every battleship is now good (aside from the pest but this fix might change that)

Name a battleship (other than the scorpion or nestor) that is unused and I can probably name a type of gameplay where they are commonly used and resonably decent.

Name a battleship (other than the scorpion or nestor) that is unused and I can probably name a type of gameplay where they are commonly used and resonably decent.

Hyperion, Abaddon, Tempest, Rohk.

They are each outclassed in any PvE endeavor by another battleship of their same race, and they are very much less useful in PvP in general than a host of other ships.

Yes, they each might have their own miniature niche, but realistically they do not see much play and that is not for no reason.

I admit PVP isn't my thing, so i don't really understand the problem with the Ishtar, it is a heavy assault cruiser after all, the very definition of the class name suggests the vessel should be able to attack vessels above and below its class, with superior speed and firepower, it's designed to engage in a HEAVY ASSAULT. sounds to me like the only real complaint is that you can't solo or small gang it, which you shouldn't be able to do against such a class anyways. if it's that far out of line with other hacs, then maybe they should look at all the ships in the class as a whole, and redefine what the intended role of a heavy assault cruiser should actually be in the game.

The problem with buffing everything except the issue ship is it becomes a whole new reason to rebalance everything above and below so that things are where they should be. It basically causes more problems than it originally started with.

I admit PVP isn't my thing, so i don't really understand the problem with the Ishtar, it is a heavy assault cruiser after all, the very definition of the class name suggests the vessel should be able to attack vessels above and below its class, with superior speed and firepower, it's designed to engage in a HEAVY ASSAULT. sounds to me like the only real complaint is that you can't solo or small gang it, which you shouldn't be able to do against such a class anyways. if it's that far out of line with other hacs, then maybe they should look at all the ships in the class as a whole, and redefine what the intended role of a heavy assault cruiser should actually be in the game.

I admit PVP isn't my thing, so i don't really understand the problem with the Ishtar, ...