I do understand that problem, but here is where the arguement seems to get diverted as to what they should be, a heavy assault cruiser by it's name is designed to maintain the perks of a cruiser class hull but still be able to compete in a larger battle against something higher than it's hull class. for this reason alone, given that the next size of hulls directly above cruiser are BC and BS, this vessel should have the damage potential and the tank to engage these classes, and it SHOULD be vastly superior in firepower and tank against smaller or less advanced hulls. nerfing the ship to balance it with other classes above and below the hulls size is simply negating it's purpose as it's class would suggest.

There was one at the title of this thread and half the thread is about it. ANd a gameplay shoudl not be a niche that happens 5 times per year.

The problem with buffing everything except the issue ship is it becomes a whole new reason to rebalance everything above and below so that things are where they should be. It basically causes more problems than it originally started with.

You do realize that the title refers to the patch name which is "Hyperion" instead of the ship which is not getting any adjustments at all?

You realize that the original tittle of the thread was balance of HAcs and Tempest.. and I am not talking about the hyperion? Arrive late and yet expect to sit at the window?

That eagle change, oh my. I am going to invest billions into the hull so reap the rewards of the price spike on it because it will be the next big fleet doctrine since the ishtar is getting completely pummeled into the ground. /sarcasm


Realistically battleships are not used outside of large-scale combat. They just are not used for roaming. Why roam in something that crawls through a warp when you can use a T3 that does the same damage, similiar tank, smaller sig radius, more maneuverability and warps faster? I mean seriously? Why use a battleship for POCO/POS bashing when a Tr3 BC does more damage and GTFO's faster? Vindis, Bhaals and RS are used but 2 of the 3 are used mainly in HS wardecs. The other is used with the support of carriers. NAPOCs are used from time to time, though not often. I have seen BL using Maels but again, not as often as HACs. It has really become a HAC and T3 warfare in all parts of Eve with the exception of POCO/POS bashing which is either Tr3 or Dreads or Frigates in FW space.

.. arties really need too trade some alpha for ROF.

Title never had Tempest on it, just a footnote on the OP. Just because I don't shiptoast from page 1 it doesn't mean I wasn't reading the thread within 1h of the creation.

and everything would start creeping towards each other to becoming the same.

A little bit of exageration there.. would be easier to give a battleships 9000% per level range for smartbombs :P

Vagabond
- please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal???

i think removing the optimal range bonus for sentries will do the job very well, and maybe even lower base optimal for gardes and curators/bouncers, wardens are fine imo. lowering the ishtar speed is pretty silly tbh.

Also people seem to forget that sentries have 1 of the largest disadvantages ingame. they can't move!! throw some bombs or a sb bs in between and it's game over fast.

Here's a crazy idea. Keep the drone bandwith the same. Make sentries take 30m3. Increase Dominix/ Geddon etc bandwith to 150.

Replace sentry bonus to heavy drone tracking and orbit speed bonus. Now the Ishtar can't use battleship sized weapons but has great damage application with heavies.

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Why nerf another minmatar ship? They are known for their speed and agility not their reiliency.

I think the vagabond might have touched him in his no-no spot. Then he fails to understand minmatar lore and how their ships operate.

I don't think i saw that quote before, but cynabal is actually faster than vagabond with MWD on. Base speed, vaga is faster, but MWD on, cynabal is faster. Not sure how that works, maybe its a mass/agility thing? Or EFT bug, idk.

Then he mentions its faster than a stabber.. that gets me every time. In his world, t2 should be worse than t1 i guess.

its not about better or worse .. its about roles .. Vaga is a HAC HAC= resilient .. so tough not speedy ...
Cynabal and stabber are both Attack cruisers.. Attack = speedy not tough

vaga seems too be both roles at the same time...

DEV BLOG is out anyway, HACS changes are decided, and (what a surprise) exactly the same as announced on the OP.

CCP Rise never came back to discuss in the thread. Yeah.

What's the point of the last 77 pages?

Maybe I am becoming cynical.

He did come back. The Ishtar bonus didn't change, but we got a look at HAC cargo (noticeably zealot) and oddly enough 100mn MWD cap need halved. So yes he did come back and discuss. Did he give you what you wanted? I'm gonna geuss not

I guess I missed that post, though I was pretty certain I read the whole thing.

The 100mn MWD is good stuff. I never flew Zealot - I did fly everything else.