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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1845
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 15:54:00 -
[571] - Quote
Blueclaws wrote:
I think one of the things people seem to be forgetting is that Minmatar are not Gallente. You are right it will never do as much damage as a mega, nor should it. Minmatar has never necessarily been about doing the most DPS. If you want the most raw DPS go Gallente, if you want good range control and speed go Minmatar.
Granted these are all kind of moot points at the battleship level. Even at the lower ships sizes though Minmatar hulls didn't really out DPS close range blaster boats. Its all about range control or at least it should be in my opinion.
Yep i appreciate that and agree with you in the comparison between a mega and a pest.
what i was more pointing at was that an 8/4/7 slot doesnt put the tempest anywhere near a position i'd want to fly it more (in fact i think i'd fly it less).
however, an 8/4/7 7xgun tempest, maybe with a combat ship role has more to offer and still does not overshadow a mega in those particular raw stats. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
67
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 15:57:00 -
[572] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:The more I hear it the more I like the idea of just changing the bandwidth of Heavys to 20mb and lowering the bandwidth of ishtars to 100 as well as the Navy Vexor. This would be a slight buff also to Myrms as they would not be able to field a full flight of heavy drones. It's not just the myrmidon that would benefit if such a change happens. Vexor/prophecy would be able to field 3 heavies, a medium and a light Vexor navy would be able to field 5 heavies (if it was also reduced to 100 bandwidth) Proteus would be able to field 5 heavies in its drone configuration Myrmidon would be able to field 5 heavies It is a buff to the potential damage of the vexor, prophecy, proteus and myrmidon ( though suffers from no heavy drone speed or tracking bonuses) and a nerf to the vexor navy (if used as a sentry boat, but no nerf is used as a heavy droneboat), and the Ishtar (as it would lose 20% of its sentry damage, but lose none of its damage if using heavy drones). Its a tactical nerf to the sentry setup on cruisers, but keeps its exact potential when using heavy drones. It is also a buff to some drone ships and basic drone fitting functionality..
It would put the DPS of Sentries on an Ishtar with 3x DDA 450 DPS on Warden II 550 DPS on Garde II 520 DPS on Curator II 480 DPS on Bouncer II |
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
67
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:01:00 -
[573] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Blueclaws wrote:
I think one of the things people seem to be forgetting is that Minmatar are not Gallente. You are right it will never do as much damage as a mega, nor should it. Minmatar has never necessarily been about doing the most DPS. If you want the most raw DPS go Gallente, if you want good range control and speed go Minmatar.
Granted these are all kind of moot points at the battleship level. Even at the lower ships sizes though Minmatar hulls didn't really out DPS close range blaster boats. Its all about range control or at least it should be in my opinion.
Yep i appreciate that and agree with you in the comparison between a mega and a pest. what i was more pointing at was that an 8/4/7 slot doesnt put the tempest anywhere near a position i'd want to fly it more (in fact i think i'd fly it less). however, an 8/4/7 7xgun tempest, maybe with a combat ship role has more to offer and still does not overshadow a mega in those particular raw stats.
I agree with what you are saying and maybe something similar to what happened to the Hyperion as it is the attack BS for the Gallente why couldn't the Maelstrom be changed to that role with its active tank and allow the Tempest to fill the fleet role better? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1470
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:04:00 -
[574] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Blueclaws wrote:
I think one of the things people seem to be forgetting is that Minmatar are not Gallente. You are right it will never do as much damage as a mega, nor should it. Minmatar has never necessarily been about doing the most DPS. If you want the most raw DPS go Gallente, if you want good range control and speed go Minmatar.
Granted these are all kind of moot points at the battleship level. Even at the lower ships sizes though Minmatar hulls didn't really out DPS close range blaster boats. Its all about range control or at least it should be in my opinion.
Yep i appreciate that and agree with you in the comparison between a mega and a pest. what i was more pointing at was that an 8/4/7 slot doesnt put the tempest anywhere near a position i'd want to fly it more (in fact i think i'd fly it less). however, an 8/4/7 7xgun tempest, maybe with a combat ship role has more to offer and still does not overshadow a mega in those particular raw stats.
If you were comparing 2 battleships with all bonuses to damage then yes the observation would be valid.
But you are not!
You are comapring a battleship with 1 damage bonus and another bonus against another with 2 damage bonus. Yet the ones with 2 damage bonus do LESS damage than the one with 1 damage bonus on ALL ranges from zero to 20 km. At the point the tempest does more damage than the megatron the Apoc already outdamages both.
So the Tempest has no engagement envelope where it has advantage, therefore the observation between gallente and minmatar is invalid. Also if you want to defend the racial flavor, then make minmatar ships weight less than gallente. Something that was the flavor of minmatar but was simply stolen from them "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
207
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:08:00 -
[575] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:bombers are precisely why the big boys don't field battleships more often And again, big boys of ye olde nullsec did use battleships because a) there were no bombers, b) they had no MJD which only distracts pilot attention and is useless otherwise, c) the grass was greener. FYI, bombers can wipe fleets of Tengus and even Mighty Ishtars. Yet, those ships are still in use.
Those FC's sucked badly by the looks of it. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1845
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:17:00 -
[576] - Quote
Fredric Wolf wrote:
I agree with what you are saying and maybe something similar to what happened to the Hyperion as it is the attack BS for the Gallente why couldn't the Maelstrom be changed to that role with its active tank and allow the Tempest to fill the fleet role better?
The hyp is a combat BS. The mega is the attack BS.
Kagura Nikon wrote:
If you were comparing 2 battleships with all bonuses to damage then yes the observation would be valid.
But you are not!
You are comapring a battleship with 1 damage bonus and another bonus against another with 2 damage bonus. Yet the ones with 2 damage bonus do LESS damage than the one with 1 damage bonus on ALL ranges from zero to 20 km. At the point the tempest does more damage than the megatron the Apoc already outdamages both.
So the Tempest has no engagement envelope where it has advantage, therefore the observation between gallente and minmatar is invalid. Also if you want to defend the racial flavor, then make minmatar ships weight less than gallente. Something that was the flavor of minmatar but was simply stolen from them
so u think a tempest should do more dps? and 8/4/7 pest with 8 guns might do that, but thats just silly.
i have no expectation for a tempest to out damage a mega in raw dps. i infact consider that dps is the mega's defining attribute.
tempest still has top speed and selectable damage types. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:20:00 -
[577] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:As i said, can reduce tempest EHP a bit more. And remember tempest cannot fit the arties and prop mod/ mjd as easily as the maelstrom because of PG. And WHY in HELL you would use an injector in an arti tempest or arti maelstrom? To feed what? the sensor booster?
And EVE if the tempest take the arti role ( and if it took would not be outshinign the maelstrom , woould be a matter of preference almost), maelstrom is still the far stronger smaller scale brawler with a massive tank. There is a reason why I still see a lot of maelstroms being used on that role and never a single tempest.
No, to feed the MWD, which caps you out in under 2 mins by itself. Also, Void Bombs turning your tank off are probably also an issue.
Maelstrom also needs a grid mod to fit 8 artillery + MWD, that means you don't have that last low for a tracking enhancer. That means a 3-damagemod Mael against a 7/4 Tempest with 7.5% damage has very slightly more damage. The Tempest, of course, is 30% faster, has half the signature radius, two utility highs, can fit injector + sensor booster + tracking comp, has more EHP, and doesn't have a gigantic, easily exploitable resist hole. Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the Tempest every time. |
Cyrek Ohaya
Perkone Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:27:00 -
[578] - Quote
I would suggest a similar system like the gila and worm has but it would simply get repetitive.
My main concern is metagame that occupies the MWD, going full speed is so on demand it eclipses it conservative alternative, many players don't have the time to look up "silly" drawbacks for using them, what I'm getting at is that the sig bloom to a lot of players and FCs alike is a very underestimated drawback in the heat of pvp, not only you are presumably getting full damage from sentries as a cruiser, every excess of signature over the sentries base resolution is a significant boost to their tracking, this same tracking scales much more with the ishtars bonus to sentry tracking, it gives the illusion that gardes have this huge drawkback to tracking but in reality due to the metagame established by players, the MWD module is much more on demand for pvp. I would suggest you look up Afterburners to make them a more attractive choice in pvp. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
361
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:46:00 -
[579] - Quote
about the tempest, pls dont change the slot layout, the current one is not the best but its unique and can work. change the damage bonus, give it a 7.5% damage 5% rof, that way it can have a small niche as a arty platform and still be outdpsded by most of the other BS as a close range AC boat. its kind of ridiculous that a double damage bonused BS have to do such a small amount of damage. if someone bring the mighty AC falloff range into the discussion, large blaster outdps large AC out to 30km if someone bring the mighty speed and BC feeling of the tempest, well that is gone after the warp speed changes and tbh even if we dont consider warps it's still pretty damn slow and sluggish, since its 5 years CCP keep nerfing minmatar ships speed and especially mass.
ps: the ishtar nerf is a joke |
To mare
Advanced Technology
361
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:48:00 -
[580] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: tempest still has top speed and selectable damage types.
you forgot CAPLESS WEAPONS!
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
852
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:10:00 -
[581] - Quote
so how about those mass increases on amarr ships too reduce the effect of plating them ?? .. any chance of them happening here ??? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1845
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:11:00 -
[582] - Quote
To mare wrote: you forgot CAPLESS WEAPONS!
indeed EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
95
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:23:00 -
[583] - Quote
CCP has experimented in the direction of giving certain ships bonuses to all size-class of weapons (mordus legion). I would suggest expanding this to all Battleships, giving them the full bonus to all size weapons. This way you could actually field some bs with point-defense weaponry.
Also +1 to the camp for removing sentries. Albeit the tears being reaped since we started exploiting this doctrine are pretty epic. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1640
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:29:00 -
[584] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:CCP has experimented in the direction of giving certain ships bonuses to all size-class of weapons (mordus legion). I would suggest expanding this to all Battleships, giving them the full bonus to all size weapons. This way you could actually field some bs with point-defense weaponry.
I've though that for a long time but i doubt CCP are as wise as you and I. +1 |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
243
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:42:00 -
[585] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Vulfen wrote:Schmell wrote:Vulfen wrote:I like the changes you have put on here Rise
a 8-4-7 Tempest is good aswell, however i would like to mention that this should apply to the Republic Fleet Tempest aswell as the vanilla.
I'd rather not. Tempest fleet issue is 8-5-7, why would you want to nerf it that hard? What i meant was another low slot for the RF Pest i.e 8-4-8 pretty bland, having so many ships with the same slot layout. Regular Pest: 7-5-7, same stats as now Fleet Pest: 8-5-7, 7 guns, 5% Damage, 10% Falloff per level. Why not tracking speed? 8 gun tempest with 5% damage and 7.5% to tracking would be ideal, and even if it's just relegated to the tempest fleet, would make a nice step up from the stabber fleet issue. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
903
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:43:00 -
[586] - Quote
I have a solution to all of this. Bring back the nanophoon in all of its glory i miss my 5km/s phoon. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
243
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:47:00 -
[587] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Good morning Rise & Fozzie, how's the weather?
Nice, nice...
Now back to work, fix sentries:
You need to be within 5000m of a sentry drone to issue commands to it.
PvE: not affected PvP: affected Ishtar: bombed And the whoel concept of the drone goes down the drain. Peopel need to stop with hatred ideas. Simply making somethign removed from game is nto the solution. And no one cares if it doe snto affect PVE. PVE doe snot need balance as much as PVP does.
Earlier I made a post about changing sentries to act more like artillery; drop the RoF a bunch but up the alpha damage, so they see an overall dps nerf. If possible, you could drop the range, tracking and hp stat differentiation between them to make them uniform, but it wouldn't be necessary. Generally it would just be dropping their paper dps to less than that of heavy attack drones.
What would you think of that as a fix to sentries to help bring the ishtar back to a normal place? |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
243
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:53:00 -
[588] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:White Drop wrote:Please do the slot change for Tempest. Right now it can't compete with other battleships nither in armor, nor in shield tank. Focusing it on armor will make it much more interesting. why? we already have typhoon as armour minmatar. tempest could just be either. phoon can do either .. it actually has more shield HP than armour .. weird indeed maybe a compromise .. is 7-5-7 ....6 turrets with a 7.5% damage bonus 5% ROF .. with speed increase too be faster than phoon .. this way it would be the fastest shield tanked T1 battleship across the board .. or can be properly armour tanked..
what about a 10% damage per level bonus for 6 guns coupled with 7.5% for tracking speed per level? You'd still get a utility high out of it and it'd be equally amazing for AC and Arty. |
Callic Veratar
605
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:54:00 -
[589] - Quote
I like the idea of ewar having an effect on drones. Right now, damps are basically the only thing that does anything if you damp all of the Ishtars, which really isn't reasonable in a large fight.
A few things have popped into my head:
- Target Spectrum Breaker disrupts all locked drones for 20s - ECM Burst disrupts all affected drones for 20s - Sensor Damps reduce drone control range in addition to target lock range (with additional drone lock script) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1471
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 18:01:00 -
[590] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:
I agree with what you are saying and maybe something similar to what happened to the Hyperion as it is the attack BS for the Gallente why couldn't the Maelstrom be changed to that role with its active tank and allow the Tempest to fill the fleet role better?
The hyp is a combat BS. The mega is the attack BS. Kagura Nikon wrote:
If you were comparing 2 battleships with all bonuses to damage then yes the observation would be valid.
But you are not!
You are comapring a battleship with 1 damage bonus and another bonus against another with 2 damage bonus. Yet the ones with 2 damage bonus do LESS damage than the one with 1 damage bonus on ALL ranges from zero to 20 km. At the point the tempest does more damage than the megatron the Apoc already outdamages both.
So the Tempest has no engagement envelope where it has advantage, therefore the observation between gallente and minmatar is invalid. Also if you want to defend the racial flavor, then make minmatar ships weight less than gallente. Something that was the flavor of minmatar but was simply stolen from them
so u think a tempest should do more dps? and 8/4/7 pest with 8 guns might do that, but thats just silly. i have no expectation for a tempest to out damage a mega in raw dps. i infact consider that dps is the mega's defining attribute. tempest still has top speed and selectable damage types.
no I did not said that I said that the statement is invalid only that. But the tempest sacrifices 2 bonuses to damage, then yes it should be a high dps battleship. Would not be strange if the dominix had only 25m drone bay and therefore a bad drone boat while havign all its bonuses dedicated to drones? "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1471
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 18:05:00 -
[591] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Harvey James wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:White Drop wrote:Please do the slot change for Tempest. Right now it can't compete with other battleships nither in armor, nor in shield tank. Focusing it on armor will make it much more interesting. why? we already have typhoon as armour minmatar. tempest could just be either. phoon can do either .. it actually has more shield HP than armour .. weird indeed maybe a compromise .. is 7-5-7 ....6 turrets with a 7.5% damage bonus 5% ROF .. with speed increase too be faster than phoon .. this way it would be the fastest shield tanked T1 battleship across the board .. or can be properly armour tanked.. what about a 10% damage per level bonus for 6 guns coupled with 7.5% for tracking speed per level? You'd still get a utility high out of it and it'd be equally amazing for AC and Arty.
Because that would be LESS dps than it has now. 10% damage per level is far less dps than 5% damage and 5% rof. Its 50% against 66.6% Also tracking bonus are NOT good bonuses for a ship that is not supposed to fight at 2-3 km from target.
Tracking bonus would be the worst possible bonus to add. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1471
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 18:07:00 -
[592] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote: Why not tracking speed? 8 gun tempest with 5% damage and 7.5% to tracking would be ideal, and even if it's just relegated to the tempest fleet, would make a nice step up from the stabber fleet issue.
Taht woudl be the most owrthless battleship ever!!!
Peopel dont get simple math? 5% damage per level have the same effect on a target that is outtrackign you barely than 5% tracking bonus per level! With the advantage that when the target is not moving you do more damage.
Please people. Use math a bit!
tracking can always be replaced under the guns formula for more raw damage. If your tracking makes you lose 50% of yoru dps you can overcome that by havign twice the raw DPS.... or doublign your tracking ( that was a raw unprecise statement jsut to transmit the general Idea.. that a tracking bonus is THE WEAKEST of all the gun bonuses). "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1471
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 18:11:00 -
[593] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:As i said, can reduce tempest EHP a bit more. And remember tempest cannot fit the arties and prop mod/ mjd as easily as the maelstrom because of PG. And WHY in HELL you would use an injector in an arti tempest or arti maelstrom? To feed what? the sensor booster?
And EVE if the tempest take the arti role ( and if it took would not be outshinign the maelstrom , woould be a matter of preference almost), maelstrom is still the far stronger smaller scale brawler with a massive tank. There is a reason why I still see a lot of maelstroms being used on that role and never a single tempest. No, to feed the MWD, which caps you out in under 2 mins by itself. Also, Void Bombs turning your tank off are probably also an issue. Maelstrom also needs a grid mod to fit 8 artillery + MWD, that means you don't have that last low for a tracking enhancer. That means a 3-damagemod Mael against a 7/4 Tempest with 7.5% damage has very slightly more damage. The Tempest, of course, is 30% faster, has half the signature radius, two utility highs, can fit injector + sensor booster + tracking comp, has more EHP, and doesn't have a gigantic, easily exploitable resist hole. Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the Tempest every time.
half the signature radius? Need I teach you basic math? Two utility highs without any fitting to use them... speed? Since when the speed of a battleship working as sniper matters!!!??? Its the least relevant aspect by FAR!!! You do nto need the sensor booster with the maelstrom natively higher lock range when in a gang. When the maesltrom cannto lock the arties already do pathetic damage. Also you meansthe EM hole that is almost never relevant because since the gone of the apoc fleets no one cares?
Also who cares? That way the temepst would have a role and maesltrom as well. As of now maelstrom have 2 roles and tempest NONE!!! And as I said.. nerf tempest EHP a bit if needed. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
113
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 18:18:00 -
[594] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Impressively scattered discussion so far. I can respond to a few things directly:
"Battleships are not in a good place, you crazy Rise" - an important distinction here is that I meant battleships are in a relatively good place WITHIN the class. Whether or not they are healthy relative to other classes is more complicated, but if there's issues there (because of bombers for instance) we would more likely want to deal with that problem from the other direction (by making changes to bombers for instance) rather than changing every BS to compensate. Between Duckslayer's insults he mentioned MWD cap use on BS being a problem which I agree with and I may try to get a change for that in shortly.
Tempest - like watching this discussion, happy to see that a significant chunk of people seem to prefer it the way it is now.
Keep it comin
I had missed this post when reading the discussion earlier. I'm glad to see that battleships are on CCPs radar, at least in some respect. I do, however think that the problem with battleships is more than just bombers, as bombers are powerful against t3s, HACs and basically any other massed doctrine. I personally feel like bombers are in a good place right now, the require a lot of practice and co-ordination and are incredibly vulnerable to mishaps on the field.
I think you'll find that the issue is that battleships just don't bring enough to the field to justify their use. They don't have enough DPS, tank, or combat endurance to justify their slow speed, lock times, and poor damage application. If you were to take the approach of rebalancing other ships to rectify problems with battleships, I think you'd find that you'll just end up changing every other ship to bring them back into the meta-game.
Bring battleships into their role. Sub-capital heavy hitters with good combat endurance; let them be slow, let them have lower tracking and warp speed, that's fine, but give them something in return for it. DPS, tank, and endurance. Battleships shouldn't be outgunned, out-tanked, and out-lasted by smaller ship sizes, period.
Give every battleship a 25% role bonus to DPS, a 50% increase across the board to HP, and a 100% bonus to drone bay, cargo hold, and capacitor size. Introduce XL sizes of local reps, plates, shield extenders, and cap boosters, and give battleships the fitting to use them. Rebalance cap batteries, introduce active protection high slots, ancillary smart bombs, hell maybe even add an upgraded DCU type module that prevents you from joining a fleet or getting reps, but in return give you a bit of a combat edge while going it solo. Shake up the meta, diversify things, make the game fun again. Hell, buff combat battle-cruisers while you're at it. |
Taleden
North Wind Local no. 612
94
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 18:37:00 -
[595] - Quote
Corey Edward wrote:Has anyone considered the cap recharge rate? The reason that you don't often see VNIs mixed in with Ishtars is that they have cap issues. The Ishtar is cap stable with all mods on and can perma-MWD. By most ship class standards, that is OP; especially for cruisers.
I think sentries are a unique weapon system and have some serious disadvantages in that they are not connected to the ship and are stationary. I'm interested to see how this small nerf plays out, but I think they should take a closer look at the ishtar itself instead of nerfing sentries into oblivion.
I think part of the reason the Ishtar has such seemingly great cap life is that its recharge rate was tuned on the assumption that it would also be firing a rack of medium hybrid turrets. But of course Ishtars don't need to bother with cap hungry medium guns when they have a full suite of deployable battleship guns, and it has no bonus to hybrids anyway, so people tend not to use them; in that scenario, whether they fit projectiles or just straight utility highs, the Ishtar ends up with more cap than it needs. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
261
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 18:50:00 -
[596] - Quote
pure sentry ishtars are easy meat. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 19:29:00 -
[597] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:I like the idea of ewar having an effect on drones. Right now, damps are basically the only thing that does anything if you damp all of the Ishtars, which really isn't reasonable in a large fight.
A few things have popped into my head:
- Target Spectrum Breaker disrupts all locked drones for 20s - ECM Burst disrupts all affected drones for 20s - Sensor Damps reduce drone control range in addition to target lock range (with additional drone lock script)
I got tired of repeating myself on this yesterday back in earlier pages. Good to see someone else bring up ewar.
Ewar just makes sense. It doesnt directly nerf just one ship. It gives players the option to use as a counter measure.
Omni Directional tracking links improve my drones tracking. Why does that bonus still apply to my drones when I am ECM jammed? Or if I am tracking disrupted, that should affect my drones.
The lack of logic on how drone upgrades are done is ridiculous without ewar affecting it. Why can I even communicate with my drones if I am ECM jammed? Why can I tell them to assist my friend that isnt jammed? Why can I even tell my drones to return if Im jammed. It shouldn't work that way.
Im not in favor of nerfing a ship or weapon system just because its the flavor of the month. I am completely in favor of CCP giving the players the tools we can choose to use to counter that popular ship being used. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
353
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 19:50:00 -
[598] - Quote
There have already been nerfs to sentries and now to the Ishtar. Still the Ishtar problem if there is one is nothing like the Drake problem of old. Anyway, further nerfage is misguided at this point. Sentry usage does come with not insignificant drawbacks.
The only thing that makes some sense in this discussion is possibly some ewar countering to drone use. But to simply thorw another ability onto ecm jammers and ecm boats would ruin the currently and very welcome damping down of ecm power (after many years "of Falcon"). The devs have stated they wanted to do something with painters (buff) and rework of ecm (change this horrible mechanic).
To throw some drone control counter ability to painters would make some sense now that Amarr use drones heavily. Say somehow the painted ship overloads the drone control communications and reduces tracking or range on the drones, or reduces the drone control range. Whatever, as long as the effect is not totally disabling (as with ecm).
Alternately, further nerf ecm, but give caldari recons a new anti drone control module.
But I really think this should go to Minmatar painters. Ecm can stay as it is, as horrid as it is, because it has been nerfed already to some semblance of tolerability. Painters however are such weak sauce that buffing them with anti-drone effects would give them more reason to be fit, and give the Vigil some reason to be on the battlefield. CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2014.07.30 19:58:00 -
[599] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:There have already been nerfs to sentries and now to the Ishtar. Still the Ishtar problem if there is one is nothing like the Drake problem of old. Anyway, further nerfage is misguided at this point. Sentry usage does come with not insignificant drawbacks.
The only thing that makes some sense in this discussion is possibly some ewar countering to drone use. But to simply thorw another ability onto ecm jammers and ecm boats would ruin the currently and very welcome damping down of ecm power (after many years "of Falcon"). The devs have stated they wanted to do something with painters (buff) and rework of ecm (change this horrible mechanic).
To throw some drone control counter ability to painters would make some sense now that Amarr use drones heavily. Say somehow the painted ship overloads the drone control communications and reduces tracking or range on the drones, or reduces the drone control range. Whatever, as long as the effect is not totally disabling (as with ecm).
Alternately, further nerf ecm, but give caldari recons a new anti drone control module.
But I really think this should go to Minmatar painters. Ecm can stay as it is, as horrid as it is, because it has been nerfed already to some semblance of tolerability. Painters however are such weak sauce that buffing them with anti-drone effects would give them more reason to be fit, and give the Vigil some reason to be on the battlefield.
There are counters to ewar. Eccm, remote sebos, remote eccm, warp core stabs, skills to increase sensor strength etc. |
Kalicondoin
BIack Sun Cynosural Field Theory.
3
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Posted - 2014.07.30 19:59:00 -
[600] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote: Have you considered changing sentries so that they keep up with and orbit the ship that deploys them?
I really like this idea +1 from me.
The movement of the fleet / ship / drone will nerf the tracking and lower its applied DPS. Would also force the fleets to fight face to face rather than drop and run. I think it works.
Can anyone poke holes in this? |
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