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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
52
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:18:00 -
[331] - Quote
If the tracking on sentries was so bad the counter to Ishtars is to orbit the sentries? That sounds wrong. About as good of an idea as smartbombing them off with 0 m/s battleships.
CCP Rise wrote:Sentry drones have enormous downsides. They can be killed like other drones AND they don't return to your ship. There's a reason they were never used at all until assist + these tracking/optimal bonuses came along.
I am fairly certain someone at CCP took a hard nerfbat to every doctrine that was used before the Ishtar got buffed like crazy. Have not seen any supercaps with normal drones, trackingtitans, canes or drakes lately. Also DDAs weren-¦t a thing. Or ships warping with different speeds. Pretty sure there was no real cruiserdoctrine except zealots for quite a while.
The Ishtar is a broken peace of ****, with more fittingroom than most HACs. You can put whatever you want on it without requiring fittingmods. While not needing any CPU/PG for guns and still having free highslots. And as many people have pointed out destroyable only counts in largescale and without the ability to carry more than enough of them around and then even being able to reload from the cargohold. |
Orakkus
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
277
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:23:00 -
[332] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:I have hoped the Muninn would get a midslot more :(
This He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1162
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:24:00 -
[333] - Quote
Judas Lonestar wrote:Musashibou Benkei wrote:Tempest is fine as it is now with its versatility in choice of either shield or armor fitting. If you're going to take a slot and put it into the lows, take it from high instead of mid.
As many people have stated, the problem with ishtars is their ability to use sentries and be insanely mobile as well. Outside of using bombs in null, low sec fights have no "good" way of taking away their dps unless you want to sacrifice a smarty battleship to the pvp Gods each time.
On a side note, you guys at CCP need to not just "tweak the current" but also keep adding new things. The last thing you actually added to the game was a single t2 mining frigate and nothing else (I'm not counting the mordus ships because I don't consider them "line ships"). It's just a circling of encouraging/forcing people to train skills they didn't have to train before or further eyecandy.
Where is the t2 smartbombing ship? Where is the mobile cyno jamming ship? Where is the sub-cap mini-triage ship? I'm not saying these ideas are good or anything but goddamn; these latest patches are seriously lacking in actual new content. Oh, if we get to request new things can I request an "Anti Ewar" hull that gets weird modules and bonuses specifically created to counter neuts, jams and disruptors? Kind of like the Wild Weasel of Eve, only made by some Pirate faction rather than McDonnell Douglas (To name one).
You mean like cap transfer to counter neuts, remote ECCM to counter jams and RESEBO to counter damp? |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
55
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:26:00 -
[334] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:If the tracking on sentries was so bad the counter to Ishtars is to orbit the sentries? That sounds wrong. About as good of an idea as smartbombing them off with 0 m/s battleships. CCP Rise wrote:Sentry drones have enormous downsides. They can be killed like other drones AND they don't return to your ship. There's a reason they were never used at all until assist + these tracking/optimal bonuses came along. I am fairly certain someone at CCP took a hard nerfbat to every doctrine that was used before the Ishtar got buffed like crazy. Have not seen any supercaps with normal drones, trackingtitans, canes or drakes lately. Also DDAs weren-¦t a thing. Or ships warping with different speeds. Pretty sure there was no real cruiserdoctrine except zealots for quite a while. The Ishtar is a broken peace of ****, with more fittingroom than most HACs. You can put whatever you want on it without requiring fittingmods. While not needing any CPU/PG for guns and still having free highslots. And as many people have pointed out destroyable only counts in largescale and without the ability to carry more than enough of them around and then even being able to reload from the cargohold.
Thats what they do. They go the lazy route. Everyone in null used drake blobs, so they nerfed drakes. Meanwhile, it affected the game play of everyone who loved using the drake or nonblobs. I loved the drake. Used to be my favorite ship to mission with. Now it sucks.
Players need to come up with doctrines that counter whatever. If thrre is no counter, then ccp should either buff something to become the counter or look at development of something that can become a counter. I keep suggesting in here to make ewar affect the relationship between the drone ship and the drones. It doesnt nerf the stats of the ship, it gives other players a way to counter that ship if they choose to use that counter measure. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:28:00 -
[335] - Quote
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:"maybe I didnt explain myself, sorry - not native english. when a drone ship drop connection to its drones, those will stop and become immobile targets - easily blapped by anybody, the only defence a small or even medium drone has is when its orbiting its target. so if ewar do the same it basically means singleshotting all the droneship weapons."
So be it. I'm ok with that. I should have to fit my ship to prevent losing connection with my drones.
When I am flying my Apoc in missions, and I get tracking disrupted, damped or ecm'd, it affects my ship's effectiveness. I dont complain about it. I fit my ship to compensate the best I can. However, if I use a Domi, Ishtar or Armageddon, ewar does not affect the effectiveness of my drones/sentries. They keep shooting and tearing through targets, even though I cant target the rats or my guns cant track. So why is it ok for ewar to affect my ship but it doesn't affect my drones? To me, making ewar hitting my ship affect my drones is common sense, but then why call it common sense when its not so common?
This is part of the balance to drones.
They can be individually targeted and easily destroyed. They do low end of average damage for weapons of their size, with fewer options to increase that.
There is an effect on their performance when their ship is under ECM--- they rely on their own targeting AI to continue fighting, which is not great. If you force a drone redeployment either by destroying the drone or the pilot recalling it, the new drones will not engage even on aggressive mode until something new hits the ship.
Drones are different from other weapons. They do have huge downsides, many of which are unique to them. They have unique advantages too. |
ElDiablo DelRojo
Ganja Labs Exodus.
8
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:33:00 -
[336] - Quote
One simple 'fix' for the BS class is to revise the warp speed changes. While those changes were an absolutely fantastic idea overall, the big loser is Battleships - their incredibly slow warp speed just makes them fundamentally unfun to the point they're unplayable.
HACs and everything below got substantially more fun. The warp speed changes made scouting and gang ceptor skirmishing awesome.
Caps don't warp much, they cyno in and mostly do their thing.
BS got the shaft, becoming so slow that you'd never use them for anything other than 'undock, warp to titan, take bridge to fight'. You basically eliminated them for any small gang application / roaming, outside of titan bridging.
Just re-balance the speeds around where BS were originally, instead of cruisers / hacs. BS were playable before and would be again. I know you're a fan of BS roaming, Rise, and this change made it so boring as to be utterly unplayable. Easy change leads to more BS use. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1162
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:33:00 -
[337] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Altirius Saldiaro wrote:"maybe I didnt explain myself, sorry - not native english. when a drone ship drop connection to its drones, those will stop and become immobile targets - easily blapped by anybody, the only defence a small or even medium drone has is when its orbiting its target. so if ewar do the same it basically means singleshotting all the droneship weapons."
So be it. I'm ok with that. I should have to fit my ship to prevent losing connection with my drones.
When I am flying my Apoc in missions, and I get tracking disrupted, damped or ecm'd, it affects my ship's effectiveness. I dont complain about it. I fit my ship to compensate the best I can. However, if I use a Domi, Ishtar or Armageddon, ewar does not affect the effectiveness of my drones/sentries. They keep shooting and tearing through targets, even though I cant target the rats or my guns cant track. So why is it ok for ewar to affect my ship but it doesn't affect my drones? To me, making ewar hitting my ship affect my drones is common sense, but then why call it common sense when its not so common? This is part of the balance to drones. They can be individually targeted and easily destroyed. They do low end of average damage for weapons of their size, with fewer options to increase that. There is an effect on their performance when their ship is under ECM--- they rely on their own targeting AI to continue fighting, which is not great. If you force a drone redeployment either by destroying the drone or the pilot recalling it, the new drones will not engage even on aggressive mode until something new hits the ship. Drones are different from other weapons. They do have huge downsides, many of which are unique to them. They have unique advantages too.
Their advantage outweigh their downside when it come to sentry. That's where the problem is. |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
55
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:43:00 -
[338] - Quote
Drones are drones. They should not have their own AI. They should rely on their ship.
Because if I warp off grid, why dont my drones continue to shoot targets? Why the hell does that logic not apply when my ship is being hit with ewar? |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:48:00 -
[339] - Quote
Advantage should always outweigh disadvantage, or there is no point in using such a thing.
In the case of sentries... just get away from them. Honestly, there are tons of things in this game capable of hitting from far beyond the drone control range of an ungimped drone ship. That disadvantage of being easily destroyed will show itself real quick if you just stop charging into them and shoot them from a distance.
And yeah, Drones are drones. I don't know what you are reading, or where you have been, but every drone I have ever heard of, fictional or real life, has at least rudimentary ability to operate individually from it's controller. That's what makes it a drone, and not just a gun mounted on the hull, or a piloted fighter. |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
20
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:50:00 -
[340] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:i expected the ishtar change ... will the domi change aswell then?
Eagle - i did say in the HAC page it was far too slow .. would be nice at 200 along with some drones .. it has a dronebay now on the model and would allow for blaster variants then instead of only rails ...
Vagabond - please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal???
Speed is the min resilience.......Seriously its made out of rust and tape you really think it can tank? |
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Lothras Andastar
Associated North American Lovers of Dolphins
33
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:55:00 -
[341] - Quote
MAH RATTINGS! Because the Legacy Code has too much Psssssssssssssssh, nothing will ever get fixed until CCP stop wasting money on failed sparkle MMOs and instead rewrite the entire backend of EvE from scratch. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1163
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:57:00 -
[342] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Advantage should always outweigh disadvantage, or there is no point in using such a thing.
In the case of sentries... just get away from them. Honestly, there are tons of things in this game capable of hitting from far beyond the drone control range of an ungimped drone ship. That disadvantage of being easily destroyed will show itself real quick if you just stop charging into them and shoot them from a distance.
They should be a trade off, not outweigh. The fact it outweight it's drawback means there is no choice because one is just flat out better. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
849
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:00:00 -
[343] - Quote
Deeone wrote:Harvey James wrote:i expected the ishtar change ... will the domi change aswell then?
Eagle - i did say in the HAC page it was far too slow .. would be nice at 200 along with some drones .. it has a dronebay now on the model and would allow for blaster variants then instead of only rails ...
Vagabond - please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal??? Speed is the min resilience.......Seriously its made out of rust and tape you really think it can tank?
just compare the vaga to the stabber and cynabal and even orthrus now.. ............speed /mass vaga - 295 / 11.59 stabber - 290 / 11.4 cynabal - 263 / 9.0 orthrus - 245 / 9.3
yet the other 3 don't get the same kind of resilience , cap, sensor strength or tank = shield booster and T2 bonuses
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
849
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:05:00 -
[344] - Quote
HAC speeds
Vaga - 290 Muninn - 210 (230 proposed )
Deimos - 230 Ishtar - 195 ( 185 proposed)
Cerberus - 220 Eagle - 180 (190 proposed)
Sacrilege - 200 Zealot - 210
seems very off too me atm Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:07:00 -
[345] - Quote
The only reason sentries are so potent now is that few bother to take into account that there are other ways of killing things besides to charge in and use the highest damaging weapons at point blank range.
Part of this is due to the need to point targets, as if Arazu and Lachesis, faction points, and skirmish warfare didn't exist.
Part is just the resistance to change, and some is that damage trumps all.
Basically, sentries do have hard counters but few choose to use them because it interferes with how they want to fight otherwise. Unless there is a reason that particular bubble of space is more valuable than your own, make them come to you. Sentry boats are not as mobile as others.
Failure on the meta to adapt does not mean the weapon is broken, it means that some factor within how people want to fight is outweighing the danger posed by the weapon. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:07:00 -
[346] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote: This is part of the balance to drones.
They can be individually targeted and easily destroyed. They do low end of average damage for weapons of their size, with fewer options to increase that.
this proposed ewar would make it too easy. compromise: when the droneship get hit by ewar drones stop shooting. they still orbit their last target, if that target get destroyed they move to their next target as per standard drone rules but wont do any damage. their owner can recall them (orbit or dronebay), nothing else till ewar get broken. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:10:00 -
[347] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote: This is part of the balance to drones.
They can be individually targeted and easily destroyed. They do low end of average damage for weapons of their size, with fewer options to increase that.
this proposed ewar would make it too easy. compromise: when the droneship get hit by ewar drones stop shooting. they still orbit their last target, if that target get destroyed they move to their next target as per standard drone rules but wont do any damage. their owner can recall them (orbit or dronebay), nothing else till ewar get broken.
I will then counter propose that in addition to the change you suggest that drones under ECM effects also become immune to damage and regen all health bars to full inside of 30 seconds. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
849
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:12:00 -
[348] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote: This is part of the balance to drones.
They can be individually targeted and easily destroyed. They do low end of average damage for weapons of their size, with fewer options to increase that.
this proposed ewar would make it too easy. compromise: when the droneship get hit by ewar drones stop shooting. they still orbit their last target, if that target get destroyed they move to their next target as per standard drone rules but wont do any damage. their owner can recall them (orbit or dronebay), nothing else till ewar get broken. I will then counter propose that in addition to the change you suggest that drones under ECM effects also become immune to damage and regen all health bars to full inside of 30 seconds.
why? .. makes no sense ... dronebays should regen all drone damage really .. maybe a 10sec counter Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:12:00 -
[349] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote: This is part of the balance to drones.
They can be individually targeted and easily destroyed. They do low end of average damage for weapons of their size, with fewer options to increase that.
this proposed ewar would make it too easy. compromise: when the droneship get hit by ewar drones stop shooting. they still orbit their last target, if that target get destroyed they move to their next target as per standard drone rules but wont do any damage. their owner can recall them (orbit or dronebay), nothing else till ewar get broken. I will then counter propose that in addition to the change you suggest that drones under ECM effects also become immune to damage and regen all health bars to full inside of 30 seconds. 3/10 |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1163
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:14:00 -
[350] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:The only reason sentries are so potent now is that few bother to take into account that there are other ways of killing things besides to charge in and use the highest damaging weapons at point blank range.
Part of this is due to the need to point targets, as if Arazu and Lachesis, faction points, and skirmish warfare didn't exist.
Part is just the resistance to change, and some is that damage trumps all.
Basically, sentries do have hard counters but few choose to use them because it interferes with how they want to fight otherwise. Unless there is a reason that particular bubble of space is more valuable than your own, make them come to you. Sentry boats are not as mobile as others.
Failure on the meta to adapt does not mean the weapon is broken, it means that some factor within how people want to fight is outweighing the danger posed by the weapon.
Your long point with bonus put you solidly into the optimal range of many sentry. What do you think will ahppen to your range bonused point ship when it gets into range to point the Ishtar? I'm pretty sure the Ishtar will hear 5 small boom in rapid succession and see your HP go down by a good amount. What can you do if for example the ishtar kite you around 60km from his already deployed senty? Follow him or kill his sentry? In both case, you are toast. If you kill his sentry, he deploy more which are now at a good range from you to shoot effectively or you follow him dancing around in his current set of sentry field of fire. |
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Sven Viko VIkolander
Imperium Fleet
262
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Posted - 2014.07.29 21:14:00 -
[351] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Impressively scattered discussion so far. I can respond to a few things directly:
Anything related to the tournament - the tournament has no impact on game balance decisions. We handle tournament balance using tournament rules and I don't think we would ever postpone balance changes based on the tournament schedule. We want to try and make sure tournament participants are informed of incoming balance changes but we will never make compromises to the whole player base because of a tournament.
"Battleships are not in a good place, you crazy Rise" - an important distinction here is that I meant battleships are in a relatively good place WITHIN the class. Whether or not they are healthy relative to other classes is more complicated, but if there's issues there (because of bombers for instance) we would more likely want to deal with that problem from the other direction (by making changes to bombers for instance) rather than changing every BS to compensate. Between Duckslayer's insults he mentioned MWD cap use on BS being a problem which I agree with and I may try to get a change for that in shortly.
Tempest - like watching this discussion, happy to see that a significant chunk of people seem to prefer it the way it is now.
Ishtar - really want to emphasize how we would rather take smaller steps more often than big ones more rarely. After some more feedback here we will definitely revisit and make sure we are happy with this change for this release.
Keep it comin
One change I would like to see for all battleships (short of removing ECM from the game !) is a boost to sensor strength. They are jammed by a 2m isk griffin far too easily and, besides the drone BSes, are completely crippled by this. Low sensor strength is actually a problem on HACs as well, particularly when soloing, and it hurts ships like the eagle more than ships like the ishtar. Also, I forgot the muninn even existed...it probably needs much more than a boost to speed. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1163
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:15:00 -
[352] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote: This is part of the balance to drones.
They can be individually targeted and easily destroyed. They do low end of average damage for weapons of their size, with fewer options to increase that.
this proposed ewar would make it too easy. compromise: when the droneship get hit by ewar drones stop shooting. they still orbit their last target, if that target get destroyed they move to their next target as per standard drone rules but wont do any damage. their owner can recall them (orbit or dronebay), nothing else till ewar get broken. I will then counter propose that in addition to the change you suggest that drones under ECM effects also become immune to damage and regen all health bars to full inside of 30 seconds.
Why? Is there any ship getting damage immunity + free reps when they get ECM'd? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8279
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:16:00 -
[353] - Quote
This change does not address the underlying problem with the Ishtar. Namely, sentry drones are broken.
They are a battleship size weapons platform.
Make it so only battleships can use them. Not cruisers, not carriers, JUST battleships. Make them require a role bonus.
Mike Voidstar wrote: Basically, sentries do have hard counters but few choose to use them because it interferes with how they want to fight otherwise. Unless there is a reason that particular bubble of space is more valuable than your own, make them come to you. Sentry boats are not as mobile as others.
Yeah, you should counter kite the guys with a 90km range weapon system and a 2.5km/s or higher speed.
There is a reason the "counters" you are talking about do not see widespread use.
It's because they're bad. The Arazu is lucky if it can stand up under a few moments firepower from an Ishtar. The Lachesis is a joke, in fact all of the Recon ships need about a ten thousand native hitpoint buff. But look, they have not been rebalanced yet.
Sentry drones have no real counters besides bombing, which is problematic against Ishtars for reasons that should be obvious. Nevermind carriers, who are immune to even that since their drone bays are so ridiculous. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:17:00 -
[354] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote: This is part of the balance to drones.
They can be individually targeted and easily destroyed. They do low end of average damage for weapons of their size, with fewer options to increase that.
this proposed ewar would make it too easy. compromise: when the droneship get hit by ewar drones stop shooting. they still orbit their last target, if that target get destroyed they move to their next target as per standard drone rules but wont do any damage. their owner can recall them (orbit or dronebay), nothing else till ewar get broken. I will then counter propose that in addition to the change you suggest that drones under ECM effects also become immune to damage and regen all health bars to full inside of 30 seconds. why? .. makes no sense ... dronebays should regen all drone damage really .. maybe a 10sec counter
The proposal is to remove one of the strongest advantages of using drones. That they remain effective, though uncontrolled under ECM effects.
I suggest then that they remain destructible only when they remain active, and when inactive that they regen their health in the timeframe of an ECM cycle. If you want to treat them like regular guns then they should be indestructible like regular guns. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
693
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:18:00 -
[355] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Ishtar: Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level Max Velocity from 195 -> 185
[
That's a pretty underwhelming nerf. Works out to less than 10% on the final stats. The issue with sentries is that their base stats have tracking halfway between medium short & long range guns. They don't really need buffs to be OP on a thing that can put out battleship DPS & range.
They need to attack the root of the problem and do a heavy balance pass on sentries entirely, but it's CCP, so they're probably going to progressively nerf the Ishtar until they figure out that Sentries are the real problem, nerf those into the ground, and then do nothing at all to compensate the Isthar afterwards and leave it utterly useless. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á |
Vadeim Rizen
Origin. Black Legion.
77
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Posted - 2014.07.29 21:18:00 -
[356] - Quote
you guys do realize if the ishtar was nerfed any more, people would quit using it all together, right? i like the proposed change. yes it has good range, and yes it has very good dps... but the dps is stationary! Meaning, you can orbit the drones and have them do little to no dps, you can burn away from them where they do 0 dps, you can kill the drones which neutralizes the dps... every other hac has mobile dps. the ship is balanced. lazy pvp'ers hate the ishtar. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:24:00 -
[357] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:This change does not address the underlying problem with the Ishtar. Namely, sentry drones are broken. They are a battleship size weapons platform. Make it so only battleships can use them. Not cruisers, not carriers, JUST battleships. Make them require a role bonus. Mike Voidstar wrote: Basically, sentries do have hard counters but few choose to use them because it interferes with how they want to fight otherwise. Unless there is a reason that particular bubble of space is more valuable than your own, make them come to you. Sentry boats are not as mobile as others.
Yeah, you should counter kite the guys with a 90km range weapon system and a 2.5km/s or higher speed. There is a reason the "counters" you are talking about do not see widespread use. It's because they're bad. The Arazu is lucky if it can stand up under a few moments firepower from an Ishtar. The Lachesis is a joke, in fact all of the Recon ships need about a ten thousand native hitpoint buff. But look, they have not been rebalanced yet. Sentry drones have no real counters besides bombing, which is problematic against Ishtars for reasons that should be obvious. Nevermind carriers, who are immune to even that since their drone bays are so ridiculous.
The drones are not that strong, nor difficult to hit. Dedicate a ship or two to popping sentries at range, and there is little the Ishtar can do about it except leave.
You don't need bombs to kill drones, that's just silly. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1951
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:26:00 -
[358] - Quote
It's easy to tell what people are training for the tourney... EVE needs more Pssshhhh |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1163
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:27:00 -
[359] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:you guys do realize if the ishtar was nerfed any more, people would quit using it all together, right? i like the proposed change. yes it has good range, and yes it has very good dps... but the dps is stationary! Meaning, you can orbit the drones and have them do little to no dps, you can burn away from them where they do 0 dps, you can kill the drones which neutralizes the dps... every other hac has mobile dps. the ship is balanced. lazy pvp'ers hate the ishtar.
It's not like you can abandon the drones being orbited and drop a new set 40+ km away so the guy orbiting your old sentry set is not trackable by the new set. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1268
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Posted - 2014.07.29 21:27:00 -
[360] - Quote
I don't understand why heavies and sentries are so good on cruiser platforms. Why use mediums? Heavies apply damage perfectly well with a web and sentries are just ridiculous at range.
Bonus cruisers for medium damage and bump sentries and heavies up to larger ship sizes. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
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