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Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:11:00 - [91] Originally by: Wodin Drukvik It can only fit a better tank than an Apoc if it turns off its guns and never turns them on or uses projectiles. Even if you downrank your weapons(using Dual Heavy Pulse vs. Megapulses on the Apoc) your lasers will still be consuming more cap/second on the Abaddon than they would be on the Apoc, and thus your tank will be correspondingly weaker. That's the big problem - it can only fill one of the two roles the dev blog describes. I realize this... but tell me: Do you think it would cause a problem for game balance to have a ship that can tank better than the Apoc and gank better than the Geddon at the same time?
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:13:00 - [92] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 21:13:51 Originally by: Dixon I realize this... but tell me: Do you think it would cause a problem for game balance to have a ship that can tank better than the Apoc and gank better than the Geddon at the same time? But why amarr cant get any other type of bonuses for their ships? Optimal? EWar? Drone? Why all amarr BS have to "tank" or "gank"? Why cant they have something new for example?
hylleX Spontaneous Defenestration Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:13:00 - [93] Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Krulla Amarrians get the PERFECT gankship and still whine? Do you people just whine on principle or..? I don't understand them eaither, they get THE PERFECT GANK SHIP and whine Try a geddon? 60mill vs 150? u get 14% more dps with abaddon with the trade that it uses 100% more cap with a built in EAN which u can just fit anyway. The geddon can atleast fire for a few minutes before its dry and plates works on it too. ---------------------------------------------------------
Venatus Phoenix Ars Caelestis HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:14:00 - [94] I was really hoping it'd be a drone ship. Yea, cry death and all that but with a name like Abaddon and the big launch port in the middle of it, it was screaming to be one. I wanted a BS Arbitrator.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:15:00 - [95] Originally by: Wodin Drukvik Even if you downrank your weapons(using Dual Heavy Pulse vs. Megapulses on the Apoc) your lasers will still be consuming more cap Artially aside, our cruisers are forced to fit small guns. Now we need medium guns on our new battleship. It all make sense.
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:22:00 - [96] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 21:27:38 Linkage (my response from other topic): Abaddon vs new BBoat is same as Geddon vs blaster mega. And abby vs mega... depends on drone amount on Abby. Question now... Why not to give abby the same bonuses as geddon has (so dump armor stuff, add -10% cap usage)?. It will be exactly same as geddon (+1 turret) but thx to higher grid/cpu (hope so) it will be able to fit at least partial tank.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:26:00 - [97] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:26:19 So the Amarr suck eh? Linkage --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:29:00 - [98] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 21:29:24 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:26:19 So the Amarr suck eh? Linkage Ummm actually it is same as was before: comparing Abaddon to new BBoat is same as Geddon to mega. Also... this is not only the game of "who has more DPS" mind you :)
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:30:00 - [99] Edited by: Wodin Drukvik on 25/07/2006 21:30:41 Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Wodin Drukvik It can only fit a better tank than an Apoc if it turns off its guns and never turns them on or uses projectiles. Even if you downrank your weapons(using Dual Heavy Pulse vs. Megapulses on the Apoc) your lasers will still be consuming more cap/second on the Abaddon than they would be on the Apoc, and thus your tank will be correspondingly weaker. That's the big problem - it can only fill one of the two roles the dev blog describes. I realize this... but tell me: Do you think it would cause a problem for game balance to have a ship that can tank better than the Apoc and gank better than the Geddon at the same time? Certainly. That's why I specified downranking the lasers to the smaller variety. Abaddon Cap/s with 8xDual Heavy Pulse(Multifreq): 18.75 cap per laser every 2.51s for 59cap/s consumption. Apoc Cap/s with 8xMega Pulse(Multifreq): 15 cap per laser every 4.34s for 27.6cap/s consumption. To get an equivalent cap consumption from weapons as an Apoc with a full rack of Megapulses, you need to go down to 4 Dual Heavy Pulse lasers.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:31:00 - [100] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 21:29:24 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:26:19 So the Amarr suck eh? Linkage Ummm actually it is same as was before: comparing Abaddon to new BBoat is same as Geddon to mega. Also... this is not only the game of "who has more DPS" mind you :) I know, otherwise i would probably go kill myself (being minmatar). But it might still make some people feel better. Maybe. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:32:00 - [101] Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 21:35:09 Originally by: Deva Blackfire http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2853/dpst2supercloserangerb0.jpg (my response from other topic): Abaddon vs new BBoat is same as Geddon vs blaster mega. And abby vs mega... depends on drone amount on Abby. Question now... Why not to give abby the same bonuses as geddon has (so dump armor stuff, add -10% cap usage)?. It will be exactly same as geddon (+1 turret) but thx to higher grid/cpu (hope so) it will be able to fit at least partial tank. Because then you'd just have another geddon, albeit an upgraded one. Also, don't you find it hypocritical of you to suggest the same bonuses as the Geddon just after posting this steaming pile: Originally by: Deva Blackwhiner But why amarr cant get any other type of bonuses for their ships? Optimal? EWar? Drone? Why all amarr BS have to "tank" or "gank"? Why cant they have something new for example? Stop whining, let the damn thing get released before you declare it broken. I want this ship... I just love the thought of it. Quote: To get an equivalent cap consumption from weapons as an Apoc with a full rack of Megapulses, you need to go down to 4 Dual Heavy Pulse lasers. OHRLY? Does the ship with the RoF bonus use more cap If you don't like amarr ships don't use them, there are plenty of us who love them.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:33:00 - [102] Was it announced if these would be in Kali 1, or if they would be in a later part? I'll find a use, somehow, for an Abaddon, so I want to get in one :)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:34:00 - [103] Originally by: Stamm Was it announced if these would be in Kali 1, or if they would be in a later part? I'll find a use, somehow, for an Abaddon, so I want to get in one :) They are in Kali One. September. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:34:00 - [104] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:26:19 So the Amarr suck eh? Linkage Those graphs are in many cases pointless, I wish they werent used as often. Its like saying 'look how much damage tach geddon can deal' completly ignoring that it cant even fit a rep.
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:35:00 - [105] Originally by: Dixon Stop whining, let the damn thing get released before you declare it broken. I want this ship... I just love the thought of it. If you don't like amarr ships don't use them, there are plenty of us who love them. If it's released broken, it will take a very, very long time to get rebalanced. Constructive criticism now, when the developers are looking at and tweaking the ships, may well actually be heard and acted upon in a timely manner.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:35:00 - [106] Originally by: Stamm I'll find a use, somehow, for an Abaddon, so I want to get in one :) Trade runs.
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:36:00 - [107] Originally by: Dixon If you don't like amarr ships don't use them, there are plenty of us who love them. Actually except for most amarr ships (except capitals and commands) i can fly: minmatar shuttle caldari shuttle gallente shuttle So im amarr purist here. And i like when my ships work. Geddon is nice, apoc is mediciore. New toy? "can be set as apoc or geddon" (tank/gank)... Someone had really good idea there.
Shadowsword Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:44:00 - [108] Edited by: Shadowsword on 25/07/2006 21:44:54 I can see the Abaddon becoming a killing machine IF you put engineering-related officer mods in it, maybe even more than a Raven with equivalent fitting. It could also be good in combat with a cap injector, but as soon as you get out of charge you're screwed. The problem with that ship, aside from offering nothing new to Amarr players, is that pure gank setups don't work, and pure tank setups have a very limited usefullness (if you don't play the goat, what's the point of tanking if you can't kill?). Maybe with a low slot config of 2 1600 plates, 2 EANM II and remote drone repairers you could get a decent solo pvp ship, so long that you avoid being pinned down... ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: Because of Amar philosophy: whatever happened, if they need to flee they can honestly sa
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:50:00 - [109] I was thinking along the lines of: Heavy tank + 4-5 guns and 3-4 nosf. Then it might work, but... you can do same thing on apoc and geddon :/
gu o	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:56:00 - [110] Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 25/07/2006 21:44:54 I can see the Abaddon becoming a killing machine IF you put engineering-related officer mods in it, maybe even more than a Raven with equivalent fitting. It could also be good in combat with a cap injector, but as soon as you get out of charge you're screwed. The problem with that ship, aside from offering nothing new to Amarr players, is that pure gank setups don't work, and pure tank setups have a very limited usefullness (if you don't play the goat, what's the point of tanking if you can't kill?). Maybe with a low slot config of 2 1600 plates, 2 EANM II and remote drone repairers you could get a decent solo pvp ship, so long that you avoid being pinned down... armour rep drones can repair your ship now? when did this happen that will own hard core....like really hardcore
Clavius XIV Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:08:00 - [111] One positive note, there is now a role for players without large t2 guns in fleet battles, jump into an Augoror or Guardian, or fly a bestower with 800 charges.
Deandra Laan	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:10:00 - [112] Maybe it's time to release XL cap batteries....
Agama Veto.	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:10:00 - [113] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Copied from the blog feedback thread: Originally by: Deva Blackfire Ok i did some calculations :) ABADDON: Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2 It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second... Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O 'nuff said tbh Aye. I was really looking forward to this ship (had a pic as my wallpaper on the pc for a while now). However with the insane cap usage on these beast it will just suck ass. Heck....even a geddon WITH a cap reduction has problems with sustained combat. Unless lasers as a whole get the cap reduction built in (and a replacement bonus on the other amarr ships) I really cannot see this ship being worth the minerals its made of. I am just really annoyed I am amarr specced now. What a waste of freakin time. I was really hoping for a big Arby to be honest. 'Death solves all problems- no man, no problem' J.V. Stalin, 1918
gu o	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:16:00 - [114] Originally by: Agama Originally by: Ather Ialeas Copied from the blog feedback thread: Originally by: Deva Blackfire Ok i did some calculations :) ABADDON: Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2 It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second... Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O 'nuff said tbh Aye. I was really looking forward to this ship (had a pic as my wallpaper on the pc for a while now). However with the insane cap usage on these beast it will just suck ass. Heck....even a geddon WITH a cap reduction has problems with sustained combat. Unless lasers as a whole get the cap reduction built in (and a replacement bonus on the other amarr ships) I really cannot see this ship being worth the minerals its made of. I am just really annoyed I am amarr specced now. What a waste of freakin time. I was really hoping for a big Arby to be honest. Me too man a drone boat would have been all too cool...but alas another shooter/junker
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:22:00 - [115] leaving the cap discussion aside, i guess every1 agrees that its not rlly a new ship, it does what a geddon or the apoc does.. boring imo. now making a bhallgorn like nos sucker, or a big arbitrator wouldve been way more interesting. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
gu o	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:30:00 - [116] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists leaving the cap discussion aside, i guess every1 agrees that its not rlly a new ship, it does what a geddon or the apoc does.. boring imo. now making a bhallgorn like nos sucker, or a big arbitrator wouldve been way more interesting. /signed x 100000000
Stephar Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:33:00 - [117] This ship is garbage. The only reason Amarr use lasers is the 50% cap reduction.
gu o	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:37:00 - [118] oh well what can you say...time to train for gal domi (best bs imo) thats right I said it the domi is almost too hot. it is so flexable but good at the same time. Being that I have lvl 5 drone interface the domi is a-friggin mazing. but oh well...saves me a 150mil for an abbadon knowing that it would jsut get blown outta the water hardcore...
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:41:00 - [119] To put in 3 battleships needs 3 concepts that are used by this race. The devs have no third concept for amarr, thats why we get this. Is it that hard to think of a third concept devs?
Mahavy Seth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:45:00 - [120] Edited by: Mahavy Seth on 25/07/2006 22:46:38 Edited: correct some of my horrible english :) The most funny thing of this rant is Dixon replies. He totally do not understood anything and seems to battle with awful rage against amarr race, forcing himself to type thewt abaddon id overpowered for many things, but mainly cause he can gank like a geddon and tank like an apoc. Let me say that it is clear that Abaddon cannot tank and gank, like megathron do. A megathron can be fitted to full gank, but it still have a acceptable tank. On abaddon, tux is right, can tank or gank ONLY. It is totally useless that I can tank like a god, if I cannot activate my weapons, cause if I do this I will run out of cap and stop tanking. Also, it is totally useless that I can gank like a mad but I cannot activate the repper or I will run out of energy. Cap injectors are bonuses on others ships. On Abaddon are a must, like ammunitions for megathron. Abaddon will run awesome until I have cap injectors, so, if CCP say to me that I have a 3000 cargo space, I will say that Abaddon is a awesome high ISK ships.

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