| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Deadeye Dave
Amarr
   |
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:02:00 -
[1]
I can't see any threads started on this yet.
8/4/8 layout with good resists and RoF maybe slight cap problems? this thing looks great.
|
Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:04:00 -
[2]
If the Maelstrom doesnt get 8/7/5 slots, the Abaddon will be up there with the Rokh trying to get my sp. It looks to be a great ship.
|
Ann Mari
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ann Mari on 25/07/2006 19:10:33
Looks to me like an Apoc with better resists?
No clue is given about PG, CPU, Cap recharge and Cap volume but...
Since the cap usage bonus is taken away (assuming all other fitting stats stay the same, which it won't) the ship will run outta cap alot faster than an Apoc.
If they improve the fitting + cap stats and give better resists, it's still not something new... It's still just an Apoc on steroids. I was really hoping to get something new/unique...
Any ideas what you'll do with the extra med slot "if" they give it?
Edit: Granted the increased (25%) ROF looks good against a low EM resist target...
///End
"There can be no justice, if rules are absolute"
"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
|
Wild Rho
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:10:00 -
[4]
Looks like an npcers wet dream tbh
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
|
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:10:00 -
[5]
Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into.
________________________________________________
 Originally by: Nidhoggur
How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
|
Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into.
If it wasn't for the RoF bonus, I'd agree with that.
|
Mahavy Seth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:14:00 -
[7]
This ship is already broken.
Make the math... cap consumption will be absurd... you cannot run a repairer and fire...
|
Cohkka
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into.
So the Geddon is crap and not worth fitting lasers into?
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Madame Savage
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:17:00 -
[9]
I hope this thing will have a huge cargobay to store all this 800 charges..
.. or it will be the first BS with cargoextender setups
|
Shadowsword
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Deadeye Dave
slight cap problems? this thing looks great.
Slight cap problems? Think 50-60 cap/second just for the guns. That's not what I call a "slight" problem.
------------------------------------------
Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward?
Shadowsword: Because of Amar philosophy: whatever happened, if they need to flee they can honestly sa |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:19:00 -
[11]
There's two ways to tackle the cap problem on this ship.
One is to make a passive tank and take advantage of those armor resistance bonuses. Lots of plates, powergrid permitting, and more hardeners. Pulse over beams, dual over standard.
The other is just to slap a cap injector on it. I fit a cap injector to my Geddon and my Apoc so I don't really see anything new here. I just really want at least 4 mids so it doesn't have to be tied to a tackler wherever it goes. 
|
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into.
So the Geddon is crap and not worth fitting lasers into?
There's no such thing as Gankageddon anymore you know...oh well, at least it's a cheap Smartbomb suiciding platform.
________________________________________________
Originally by: Nidhoggur
How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
|
Mahavy Seth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
There's two ways to tackle the cap problem on this ship.
One is to make a passive tank and take advantage of those armor resistance bonuses. Lots of plates, powergrid permitting, and more hardeners. Pulse over beams, dual over standard.
The other is just to slap a cap injector on it. I fit a cap injector to my Geddon and my Apoc so I don't really see anything new here. I just really want at least 4 mids so it doesn't have to be tied to a tackler wherever it goes.
Man... I hope you understand thet cap booster will become your AMMUNITIONS! When I run out of cap booster on geddon, I am still able to maintain a combat. With abaddon, I will be totally breaked.
No cap bonus is a good idea, BUT ONLY if you boost weapons, so when you fire you drain your cap like a mad, but at least you do absurd damage!
Abaddon bonuses for me: 5% to ROF and Damage to laser turrets
It will be different from Armagedodn cause the armageddon will be a sort of long combat ship.
Anyway this will not happen, I already say it to you, cause CCP fantasy is somethink like a parallel mind... all Tier3 get a tank bonus, so even amarr must get this.
Abaddon is totally broken as it is now, much better fly geddon or apoc.
|
Ann Mari
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:25:00 -
[14]
How about this...
Ditch the "5% large energy weapon rate of fire per level"
and replace with...
"5% large projectile weapon rate of fire per level"
Now you got a ship!!! ;P
///End
"There can be no justice, if rules are absolute"
"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
|
Ann Mari
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:26:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ann Mari on 25/07/2006 19:26:14
Double post 
///End
"There can be no justice, if rules are absolute"
"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
|
Xendie
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into.
yep.
ty tuxford for giving amarr the perfect artillery/autocannon boat.
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
inSpirAcy
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
Man... I hope you understand thet cap booster will become your AMMUNITIONS! When I run out of cap booster on geddon, I am still able to maintain a combat. With abaddon, I will be totally breaked.
Well, yes.
I completely abandoned the idea of sustainable combat long ago when nos started appearing left, right and center. Every single ship I PvP in, bar AFs, carries a cap injector and a cargo bay full of charges.
What's nice about the Abaddon is that resistance bonus let's you plate it and harden it and leave the repper behind/offline. If it had a damage bonus instead it'd be hopelessly lost for cap, unable to make up its defense with reppers.
|
Xendie
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
Man... I hope you understand thet cap booster will become your AMMUNITIONS! When I run out of cap booster on geddon, I am still able to maintain a combat. With abaddon, I will be totally breaked.
Well, yes.
I completely abandoned the idea of sustainable combat long ago when nos started appearing left, right and center. Every single ship I PvP in, bar AFs, carries a cap injector and a cargo bay full of charges.
What's nice about the Abaddon is that resistance bonus let's you plate it and harden it and leave the repper behind/offline. If it had a damage bonus instead it'd be hopelessly lost for cap, unable to make up its defense with reppers.
i bet you 1 isk that it will have like 20% worse base resists to start with then any other BS.
its the tuxford way of saying "yer screwed amarr"
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
Deadeye Dave
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:32:00 -
[19]
Ok so this thing has major capacitor problems. They need the reduction in Energy Turret use however if they were to remove the resist bonus it would just be an Armageddon and if they were to remove the RoF bonus it would be an Apocalypse. Thats what I'm thinking anyway.
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:33:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 25/07/2006 19:34:30
Originally by: Eximius Josari
If the Maelstrom doesnt get 8/7/5 slots, the Abaddon will be up there with the Rokh trying to get my sp. It looks to be a great ship.
Funny. While lasers still have retarded fiting requirements combined with em/thermal damage only you wont gank much tbh.
Especially not ships with shield boost bonus or ships that have high armour resistance.
Caldari drew the longest straw....AGAIN.
Meh.
|
Gonger
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:35:00 -
[21]
Let's hope that there will be a following announcement "We're going to remove the cap reduction bonus from all amarr ships, and change laser turrets so that you don't have to give up one of your ship bonuses just to be able to use them!"
Honestly, I haven't been in the game for that long, but from what I've seen (small/medium turrets), I haven't seen anything of this allegedly super high damage mod on laser turrets that justifies their ridiculous cap usage or the fact that 90% of amarr ships must sacrifice one of their ship bonuses just to be able to use laser turrets, yet I constantly see people saying that Amarr ships have a much higher damage mod in most of the discussion threads. Are these old crusty veteran types who remember how things used to be back in the day, which no longer reflects current reality? I just feel like I'm missing something here.
|
Mahavy Seth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Deadeye Dave
Ok so this thing has major capacitor problems. They need the reduction in Energy Turret use however if they were to remove the resist bonus it would just be an Armageddon and if they were to remove the RoF bonus it would be an Apocalypse. Thats what I'm thinking anyway.
It is so simple! give dmage and ROF bonus! It will make worthy to use cap booster. At least when I finish cap booster, there will be so many death meat near me.
|
inSpirAcy
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:36:00 -
[23]
The make or break part of this ship, for me, is how much powergrid it's going to get. If I can't fit a full rack of DHP II without room for some plates, then its advantages are going to be a bit limited.
Fingers crossed. 
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
It is so simple! give dmage and ROF bonus! It will make worthy to use cap booster. At least when I finish cap booster, there will be so many death meat near me.
Damage + rof with 8 low slots? I dont think so. 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:42:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 19:42:59
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into.
yep.
ty tuxford for giving amarr the perfect artillery/autocannon boat.
Dont make me train amarr...
Besides, the minnie gets a rof bonus to projectiles.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Godar Marak
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:42:00 -
[26]
This ship has same damage bonus as armageddon only with one extra turret slot = more damage than armageddon.
But obviously it still wont be enough to kill off a tanked raven
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gonger
Edited by: Gonger on 25/07/2006 19:41:41
Edited by: Gonger on 25/07/2006 19:38:31
Let's hope that there will be a following announcement "We're going to remove the cap reduction bonus from all amarr ships, and change laser turrets so that you don't have to give up one of your ship bonuses just to be able to use them!"
Honestly, I haven't been in the game for that long(little over 2months), but from what I've seen (small/medium turrets), I haven't seen anything of this allegedly super high damage mod on laser turrets that justifies their ridiculous cap usage or the fact that 90% of amarr ships must sacrifice one of their ship bonuses just to be able to use laser turrets, yet I constantly see people saying that Amarr ships have a much higher damage mod in most of the discussion threads. Are these old crusty veteran types who remember how things used to be back in the day, which no longer reflects current reality? I just feel like I'm missing something here.
Bad fitting problems, limited damage types which suffer heavily from EANM tank (everyone these days), damage and tank both draw from the same pool, 90% of our ships give up one of their bonuses just to make our turrets usable. Where's the upside?
Lasers used to be the super weapons years back, back then the cap bonus actually served a purpose. But over the years lasers/crystals been nerfed while everyone else got boosted.
Thats why we are in the sad state we are in
|
Krulla
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:45:00 -
[28]
Amarrians get the PERFECT gankship and still whine?
Do you people just whine on principle or..? 
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
This ship is already broken.
Make the math... cap consumption will be absurd... you cannot run a repairer and fire...
How overpowered would that ship be without the crazy cap consumtion? I think this ship is the best thing amarr players could ask for... I'm buying one as soon as they get released
|
Cohkka
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:47:00 -
[30]
That ship isn't even out yet and you're already whining like mad.
Only thing that comes into mind reading that thread is: Buuhuuhuu...
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:49:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Berrik Radhok on 25/07/2006 19:50:19
The Abbadon is garbage. No one will be able to use it for any serious sort of fleet fighting or NPCing as it won't be able to use tachs for a useful amount of time and it won't be able to repair itself and use guns at the same time.
Amarr gets ****** again! GG CCP!
Why couldn't you just have made it follow the Cruficier/Arbitrator line and made it an armor tanking ECM drone boat? That would actually allow it to fulfill a decent niche in the Amarr line of battle.
Click here for something interesting concerning D2 and Sparta! |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:51:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Berrik Radhok
The Abbadon is garbage. No one will be able to use it for any serious sort of fleet fighting or NPCing as it won't be able to use tachs for a useful amount of time and it won't be able to repair itself and use guns at the same time.
Congratulations, you've just ruled out the roles of the Geddon and Apoc!
Now realise there's more to EVE than fleet battles and NPC'ing, and you'll see the Abaddon's niche. 
|
Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
Originally by: Deadeye Dave
Ok so this thing has major capacitor problems. They need the reduction in Energy Turret use however if they were to remove the resist bonus it would just be an Armageddon and if they were to remove the RoF bonus it would be an Apocalypse. Thats what I'm thinking anyway.
It is so simple! give dmage and ROF bonus! It will make worthy to use cap booster. At least when I finish cap booster, there will be so many death meat near me.
How about 5% damage and 20% reduction of stacking penalty?
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
KALEN ACHURAN
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:53:00 -
[34]
Edited by: KALEN ACHURAN on 25/07/2006 19:53:56
Yesss I am soo excited... Caldari get another f0cking amazing ship.
*Amarr character for sale cheap!*
Time to remake as Caldari this was the final straw for me... I think Tux has said f0ck you Amarr 15 too many times now. The abbadon will do so much better without lasers. it will be an "ok-ish" ship if you rig it with art cannons. but even then without any bonus (except resistances) aiding it will become just another fun floating target for other races to shoot at. Man is Amarr f0cked in the arse...
doh posting with my New Super Amazing Caldari character my bad...
*please let a covert ops ship use a covert ops cloaking device...It just makes sense*
*Bombers need baby love too*
-Forum Fighter at work; player at night |
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:53:00 -
[35]
Copied from the blog feedback thread:
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ok i did some calculations :)
ABADDON:
Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2
It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns
Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second...
Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O
'nuff said tbh
________________________________________________
Originally by: Nidhoggur
How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dixon
How overpowered would that ship be without the crazy cap consumtion? I think this ship is the best thing amarr players could ask for... I'm buying one as soon as they get released
Best thing? I guess you either dont play amarr or are just blind.
Maxed skills + 8x megapulse t2 + 2x heatsing t2 = cap consumption of 69 PER SECOND. You know that it is more than one injector can give you? You need 2 injectors to actually run this setup if you include single rep.
Ah maybe passive tank (like in fleet?): yes - with tachys you use 102 cap per second now :) 2x injector minimum :)
|
Deadeye Dave
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:54:00 -
[37]
Its funny that the Dev Blog hasn't been out very long but already people are saying the Caldari BS is overpowered and the Amarrian BS is underpowered.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Dixon
How overpowered would that ship be without the crazy cap consumtion? I think this ship is the best thing amarr players could ask for... I'm buying one as soon as they get released
Best thing? I guess you either dont play amarr or are just blind.
Maxed skills + 8x megapulse t2 + 2x heatsing t2 = cap consumption of 69 PER SECOND. You know that it is more than one injector can give you? You need 2 injectors to actually run this setup if you include single rep.
Ah maybe passive tank (like in fleet?): yes - with tachys you use 102 cap per second now :) 2x injector minimum :)
Oh damn, I am both blind and I have never ever used an amarr ship... you win 
|
Cohkka
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Berrik Radhok
The Abbadon is garbage. No one will be able to use it for any serious sort of fleet fighting or NPCing as it won't be able to use tachs for a useful amount of time and it won't be able to repair itself and use guns at the same time.
Congratulations, you've just ruled out the roles of the Geddon and Apoc!
Now realise there's more to EVE than fleet battles and NPC'ing, and you'll see the Abaddon's niche.
Was going to write the same. I'm quite happy Gallente didn't get yet another Fleet or NPCing ship.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Deadeye Dave
Its funny that the Dev Blog hasn't been out very long but already people are saying the Caldari BS is overpowered and the Amarrian BS is underpowered.
Because it is. I wouldn't be suprised if the new Caldari BS could hit 200km with T1 guns.
Click here for something interesting concerning D2 and Sparta! |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:57:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Dixon
How overpowered would that ship be without the crazy cap consumtion? I think this ship is the best thing amarr players could ask for... I'm buying one as soon as they get released
Best thing? I guess you either dont play amarr or are just blind.
Maxed skills + 8x megapulse t2 + 2x heatsing t2 = cap consumption of 69 PER SECOND. You know that it is more than one injector can give you? You need 2 injectors to actually run this setup if you include single rep.
Ah maybe passive tank (like in fleet?): yes - with tachys you use 102 cap per second now :) 2x injector minimum :)
Wouldnt the ability to sustain that dps indefinently be extreamly overpowered?
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Xendie
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:01:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Krulla
Amarrians get the PERFECT gankship and still whine?
Do you people just whine on principle or..?
yeah perfect gankship that runs dry in less then 30sec against a raven or a mega that can tank the dmg aswell as dish it out.
while the abbadon pilot can only do one thing.
but it will be great as a AC boat :)
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:02:00 -
[43]
Its DPS is not that much compared to Geddon - only 14% more (excluding drones cause we dont know anything abt drone bay).
BUT: cap usage is 100% more (maxed skills ofc).
14% more damage for doubling cap usage? Wonder if gally users would go for it?
And geddons runs pretty well (tank+gank) with single injector... Wouldnt be surprised if geddon could beat this toy without bigger problems.
|
Tsun Lao
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
This ship is already broken.
Make the math... cap consumption will be absurd... you cannot run a repairer and fire...
How overpowered would that ship be without the crazy cap consumtion? I think this ship is the best thing amarr players could ask for... I'm buying one as soon as they get released
YEAH THEY HAVE NO REASON TO WHINE, BECAUSE IM SURE THEY GET ENOUGH PG TO FIT SMALL ARMOUR REPAIRER II!!!
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Copied from the blog feedback thread:
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ok i did some calculations :)
ABADDON:
Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2
It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns
Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second...
Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O
'nuff said tbh
Yeah, nuff said...
So you don't expect this ship to have a capacitor recharge rate? If the guns are using 69cap/sec and the injector is giving 66cap/sec you'll be using 3cap/sec while running guns and the injector. Now I do actually think this ship could deal some nice DPS and with the resist bonus + 8 lows, well I think it will be a great ship.
I hope you ppl seriously start selling your characters and go through some therapy. This massive amarr-whining is just getting annoying. Yeah you have some problems and no this ship doesn't fix them. But this ship is great and if you don't like it, just stick with your geddons
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:06:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tsun Lao
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
This ship is already broken.
Make the math... cap consumption will be absurd... you cannot run a repairer and fire...
How overpowered would that ship be without the crazy cap consumtion? I think this ship is the best thing amarr players could ask for... I'm buying one as soon as they get released
YEAH THEY HAVE NO REASON TO WHINE, BECAUSE IM SURE THEY GET ENOUGH PG TO FIT SMALL ARMOUR REPAIRER II!!!
No need to type in all caps mate.
Me personally, I've cancelled my 3 accounts. I just cant be bothered anymore. My main has 25mill sp in amarr, what a waste.
I pay to play this game, the least I should demand is that ccp manages to balance their game. Right now I 'love' this game just as much as I loved the bug hell that was castor.
3 years of up and down, pitty it came to this.
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dixon
I hope you ppl seriously start selling your characters and go through some therapy. This massive amarr-whining is just getting annoying.
You dont even fly Amarr you total troll.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: Dixon
I hope you ppl seriously start selling your characters and go through some therapy. This massive amarr-whining is just getting annoying.
You dont even fly Amarr you total troll.
Involved parties:
Name: Dixon (laid the final blow)
Security: -1.8
Alliance: *
Corp: *
Ship: Zealot
Weapon: Heavy Pulse Laser II
... face?
|
webkert
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:11:00 -
[49]
This ship will be aswome with gank setup and plates. Im really looking forward to flying it.
|
Tonya Nastee
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Berrik Radhok
The Abbadon is garbage. No one will be able to use it for any serious sort of fleet fighting or NPCing as it won't be able to use tachs for a useful amount of time and it won't be able to repair itself and use guns at the same time.
Congratulations, you've just ruled out the roles of the Geddon and Apoc!
Now realise there's more to EVE than fleet battles and NPC'ing, and you'll see the Abaddon's niche.
QTF
It has other roles to excel at than NPCing (apoc) and fleet battles (geddon)
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:12:00 -
[51]
You know I have come to grips with this "new great ship that will end Amarr whines"
*starts training mining level 5
Hot damn this will be the most amazing mining ship to be known. 8 los slots...how many mining upgrades can I fit with 8 miner 2's.
Heres an idea for a fix:
+25% cargo space per level
+10% bonus to mining yeild
man would that be great...a big cargo with 8 expanders... cannot wait.
|
Tassi
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:12:00 -
[52]
8 tachy's + injector = nice fleet ship.
we will have to see about the cap of the ship in closerange combat but I am not sure if 1 injector would be enough to keep guns + repper running.
Why not make it a dmg bonus?
|
Emeline Cabernet
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:13:00 -
[53]
well.... uhm.... i dont know what to say... shaft?
big shaft? something like that.
well i for 1 will be mounting arty's on this.
|
Azerrad
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:14:00 -
[54]
Overpowered tbh. 8 turrets and a RoF bonus for guns that already have their damage bonus built in? Can't wait to see the DPS graphs for this one.
|
Trac3rt
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:23:00 -
[55]
Quote:
It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse. The problem starts however when it tries to do both at once.
I am willing to bet that this means that it will not be able to fit BS guns and a BS sized tank like almost every other T1 Amarr ship.
___
|
Licdy
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:24:00 -
[56]
ok. stop whineing and wait until it comes out there maybe many other changers.
Maybe a skill -5% Energy Turret capacitor use
|
webkert
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:24:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Azerrad
Overpowered tbh. 8 turrets and a RoF bonus for guns that already have their damage bonus built in? Can't wait to see the DPS graphs for this one.
It will do more damage then a blaster mega with its guns, but we dont know how big the dronebay will be, and it will be very vulnurable to nos/neutralizers unless you run 2 cap injectors.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:25:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:27:27
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:26:58
Originally by: Xendie
why anyone would want to use energy weapons on this ship is beyond my comprehension.
Well then I have to question your comprehension...
The ship has a RoF bonus to ... energy weapons? Now why do all amarr-whiners think they're proving some point by saying that they will fit projectiles on Amarr ships (OH NOES TEH HORROR!!). If you want to put projectiles on this ship, feel free to do so - I don't think it will solve your problems.
Now I would like to quote Tuxford, I have highlighted the part that I feel many should read... you know those with bad comprehension.
Originally by: Tuxford
The most obvious thing about this ship is that it isn't getting any energy weapon capacitor need bonus. The bonuses it is getting however are pretty powerful. It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse. The problem starts however when it tries to do both at once.Slot wise its gonna have 8 turret hardpoints, 8 high slots and 8 low slots. Whether it has one more slot than the Apocalypse isn't really decided but its quite clear that if it does then it will be a med slot.
|
Ann Mari
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:25:00 -
[59]
Well ther goes the...
"But you Amarr don't use ammo! You don't have haul boat loads of ammo to ops and POS's etc"
Now we got ammo and exploding crystals...
After 5mil SP, should I train up on Minnie weps, or is it early enough to go over to Caldari completly?
///End
"There can be no justice, if rules are absolute"
"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
|
Grimpak
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:25:00 -
[60]
you know that the ships' stats are not finalized yet.
...what if the abbadon ends up with this capital-sized cap?
oh and btw, tux said that the ship will be able to TANK or GANK, not both.
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
|
Johnny Bravo
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:27:00 -
[61]
50% more DPS than Tempest or Maelstorm in fleet battles. Plus much better resists for fleet battles. Short range damage better than Mega. I would say its a truely amazing boat.
|
Kyguard
LFC
3rd Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:28:00 -
[62]
The abbadon is not a bad ship. It's far below the basis of the other races. What probably ****es me off the most is that it is completely replacing the apoc and geddon. Why the hell would I use them now that I have those two in one?
The rokh, maelstrom and even hyperion don't replace their tier1/2 counterparts. Arrrgh
===
God is on the side with the best arti |
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:28:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
CCP, I'm disappointed. You've given Amarr players nothing new to fly. We already have a gankship. We already have a tank ship. Giving us a ship that can do one or the other, but not both, serves no purpose at all. It's just rehashing the same old roles. Give us something different to fly.
Signed
And again
once more for luck...
|
Galadiin Venyaa
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:29:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Dixon
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:27:27
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:26:58
Originally by: Xendie
why anyone would want to use energy weapons on this ship is beyond my comprehension.
Well then I have to question your comprehension...
The ship has a RoF bonus to ... energy weapons? Now why do all amarr-whiners think they're proving some point by saying that they will fit projectiles on Amarr ships (OH NOES TEH HORROR!!). If you want to put projectiles on this ship, feel free to do so - I don't think it will solve your problems.
Now I would like to quote Tuxford, I have highlighted the part that I feel many should read... you know those with bad comprehension.
Originally by: Tuxford
The most obvious thing about this ship is that it isn't getting any energy weapon capacitor need bonus. The bonuses it is getting however are pretty powerful. It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse. The problem starts however when it tries to do both at once.Slot wise its gonna have 8 turret hardpoints, 8 high slots and 8 low slots. Whether it has one more slot than the Apocalypse isn't really decided but its quite clear that if it does then it will be a med slot.
I can't see why Amarr get the only T3 BS that can only do 1 of the 2?
|
Milkminer
Independent Frontiers
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:30:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Johnny Bravo
50% more DPS than Tempest or Maelstorm in fleet battles. Plus much better resists for fleet battles. Short range damage better than Mega. I would say its a truely amazing boat.
Full stats arnt avalible yet.
Your missing one thing, they arnt gonna be less than 100mil on the open market and are prob gonna cost over 100mil anyway to build in the first place. They are a TIER 3 ship and as such they are going to be better at alot of things.
They WILL, as almost all ships have the same issues as everyone else. Fittings Versatility etc, and as such wont be as powerful as everyone first thinks.
Originally by: John Moscroft
Goons are a renewable resource. There are no recruitment problems.
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:31:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Grimpak
oh and btw, tux said that the ship will be able to TANK or GANK, not both.
He was thinking lasers when he said that. If people start fitting projectiles on this thing, it will be insane.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:32:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:31:47
Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa
I can't see why Amarr get the only T3 BS that can only do 1 of the 2?
Because it does both better than the others...
|
Roke E'raith
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:34:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Dixon
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:27:27
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:26:58
Originally by: Xendie
why anyone would want to use energy weapons on this ship is beyond my comprehension.
Well then I have to question your comprehension...
The ship has a RoF bonus to ... energy weapons? Now why do all amarr-whiners think they're proving some point by saying that they will fit projectiles on Amarr ships (OH NOES TEH HORROR!!). If you want to put projectiles on this ship, feel free to do so - I don't think it will solve your problems.
Now I would like to quote Tuxford, I have highlighted the part that I feel many should read... you know those with bad comprehension.
Originally by: Tuxford
The most obvious thing about this ship is that it isn't getting any energy weapon capacitor need bonus. The bonuses it is getting however are pretty powerful. It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse. The problem starts however when it tries to do both at once.Slot wise its gonna have 8 turret hardpoints, 8 high slots and 8 low slots. Whether it has one more slot than the Apocalypse isn't really decided but its quite clear that if it does then it will be a med slot.
Well, it has one <1> more turret than the 'geddon. That is the extra "potential damage". It WILL run out of cap so you have to assign midslot (1 or 2) for cap injectors and most of the cargo hold... Basically, more or less useless for most uses. Honestly. Why would we get another useless battleship? I mean, the Apoc is not very useful either.
Now add the price. I bet it will cost about 3 - 4 geddons... I know where I will put my money. :)
Paranoia is a way of life. Long life. |
Galadiin Venyaa
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:34:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Dixon
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:31:47
Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa
I can't see why Amarr get the only T3 BS that can only do 1 of the 2?
Because it does both better than the others...
And how do you hold aggro in a tanked ship if you can't put out damage? Projectile weps aside though.
|
Aramendel
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:35:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Its DPS is not that much compared to Geddon - only 14% more (excluding drones cause we dont know anything abt drone bay).
For pulses. With tachyons this might be a wholly different issue, considering a geddon will have problems fitting a whole rack of them.
|
Roke E'raith
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:38:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Its DPS is not that much compared to Geddon - only 14% more (excluding drones cause we dont know anything abt drone bay).
For pulses. With tachyons this might be a wholly different issue, considering a geddon will have problems fitting a whole rack of them.
It is not THAT hard to fit them... :)
Paranoia is a way of life. Long life. |
Ripline
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:39:00 -
[72]
The usefullnes of the Abaddon depends on it's powergrid and CPU , I'd say.
What it can fit without cramming low slots full of fitting mods? Megabeam IIs would be tolerable, Tachyon IIs excellent. With the extra slots you probably could spare one or two for CPRs/Cap Rechargers..
In 8/4/8 config.. (let's hope it has good lock range out of the box)
8 x Tach II
MWD , sensor booster II x 2, Cap Recharger II/Injector/whatever
MAR/LAR, Tracking Enhancer II x 3, HS II, damage control, 2x <whatever>.
Can use those last 2 lows to slow the cap drain some if needed with CPRs, or plates. or heat sinks. or fitting mods. It can't tank worth squat but it'll put out high burst damage (With a heat sink II or a couple it's downright impressive) and hopefully survive long enough to align and get out in time.
|
Tao Han
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:40:00 -
[73]
Quote:
And how do you hold aggro in a tanked ship if you can't put out damage? Projectile weps aside though.
Kill me now please...
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:41:00 -
[74]
Ummm iirc fleet geddons DO fit full rack of them (at least RZR ones do) - so its not that big difference.
As for pure laser dps:
1060 from megapulse t2 + 3x heatsink using conflagration.
How much blastermega can dish out (excluding drones plz)?
|
Roke E'raith
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:42:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Roke E''raith on 25/07/2006 20:44:23
Originally by: Ripline
The usefullnes of the Abaddon depends on it's powergrid and CPU , I'd say.
What it can fit without cramming low slots full of fitting mods? Megabeam IIs would be tolerable, Tachyon IIs excellent. With the extra slots you probably could spare one or two for CPRs/Cap Rechargers..
In 8/4/8 config.. (let's hope it has good lock range out of the box)
8 x Tach II
MWD , sensor booster II x 2, Cap Recharger II/Injector/whatever
MAR/LAR, Tracking Enhancer II x 3, HS II, damage control, 2x <whatever>.
Can use those last 2 lows to slow the cap drain some if needed with CPRs, or plates. or heat sinks. or fitting mods. It can't tank worth squat but it'll put out high burst damage (With a heat sink II or a couple it's downright impressive) and hopefully survive long enough to align and get out in time.
Well, otherwise it could be made more flexible... So you can fix around a little bit (this could be for all tier 3 battleships):
* 5% large weapon rate of fire per level (not a specific type!)
/me puts on the asbestos suit.
EDIT: Bah, why do I even complain or try to make changes. They won't listen anyway. |
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:44:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ummm iirc fleet geddons DO fit full rack of them (at least RZR ones do) - so its not that big difference.
As for pure laser dps:
1060 from megapulse t2 + 3x heatsink using conflagration.
How much blastermega can dish out (excluding drones plz)?
Don't forget to compare the range while you're at it.
|
hylleX
Spontaneous Defenestration
Coalition of Carebear Killers
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:45:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Dixon
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:31:47
Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa
I can't see why Amarr get the only T3 BS that can only do 1 of the 2?
Because it does both better than the others...
Its pretty funny they want the ship to only be able to do one thing when thats exactly what we have already with our current BS¦s.
Some information, RMR (and also buff to hybrid + removal of projectile cap use) made "gank only" alot worse than a "little less gank + tank".
Lasers need cap reduction simple as that, should have been done with rmr, i hope its on the way. And crystals need a more even split between em and thermal damage.
---------------------------------------------------------
|
Swiftness
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:46:00 -
[78]
cant comment on the abaddon itself, but, isnt it good news that minmatar and caldari get shield tanked turret boats ? I mean, more prolly-weak-to-EM targets 
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:46:00 -
[79]
15km with multi (+ faloff). Not too hard to pass on MWD (and iirc new gally toy is even faster and deals more damage).
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:49:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 20:46:20
Quote:
Don't forget to compare the range while you're at it.
15km with multi (+ faloff). Not too hard to pass on MWD (and iirc new gally toy is even faster and deals more damage).
Yeah, the range doesn't matter, and the resist bonus either does it? Shouldn't all ships just be the same, easier balancing that way...
|
Cohkka
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:50:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Me personally, I've cancelled my 2 accounts. I just cant be bothered anymore. My main has 25mill sp in amarr, what a waste.
I pay to play this game, the least I should demand is that ccp manages to balance their game. Right now I 'love' this game just as much as I loved the bug hell that was castor.
3 years of up and down, pitty it came to this.
Yes, do it. No one will miss an ignorant Amarr.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:53:00 -
[82]
tbh the only thing ppl will fit are dmg mods and plates now, what a ****nig uber ship.
if ccp were to somewhat balance the bonuses i would be happy...
High-Sec Piracy Recruitment |
Stamm
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 20:53:00 -
[83]
I think a lot depends on the final stats.
It's going to need 10-15% more powergrid than an Apoc. It's going to need 10% or so more base cap than an Apoc, and it's going to need that extra midslot. The armour value doesn't matter, as long as you have enough armour to last the 12 seconds for a rep it's not a huge issue - unless you're talking about massive differences. Have to assume it's got a little bit weaker scan resoultion and a touch higher sensor strength. The drone bay is not going to be smaller than an Apoc, nor will it be larger than a Geddon, so it's not a huge impact there.
What it does do is unlock higher DPS for Amarr, right now we hit the stacking wall with heat sinks.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:03:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 21:03:33
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Me personally, I've cancelled my 2 accounts. I just cant be bothered anymore. My main has 25mill sp in amarr, what a waste.
Can I have your stuff and/or your character?
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:05:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Dixon
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:27:27
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 20:26:58
Originally by: Xendie
why anyone would want to use energy weapons on this ship is beyond my comprehension.
Well then I have to question your comprehension...
The ship has a RoF bonus to ... energy weapons? Now why do all amarr-whiners think they're proving some point by saying that they will fit projectiles on Amarr ships (OH NOES TEH HORROR!!). If you want to put projectiles on this ship, feel free to do so - I don't think it will solve your problems.
Now I would like to quote Tuxford, I have highlighted the part that I feel many should read... you know those with bad comprehension.
Originally by: Tuxford
The most obvious thing about this ship is that it isn't getting any energy weapon capacitor need bonus. The bonuses it is getting however are pretty powerful. It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse. The problem starts however when it tries to do both at once.Slot wise its gonna have 8 turret hardpoints, 8 high slots and 8 low slots. Whether it has one more slot than the Apocalypse isn't really decided but its quite clear that if it does then it will be a med slot.
In other words, it will be doing a better job than the ships that are specifically designed for those roles.
Yay for being inventive! 
|
Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:05:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Krulla
Amarrians get the PERFECT gankship and still whine?
Do you people just whine on principle or..?
I don't understand them eaither, they get THE PERFECT GANK SHIP and whine
High-Sec Piracy Recruitment |
Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:06:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Dixon
I would like to quote Tuxford, I have highlighted the part that I feel many should read... you know those with bad comprehension.
Originally by: Tuxford
The most obvious thing about this ship is that it isn't getting any energy weapon capacitor need bonus. The bonuses it is getting however are pretty powerful. It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse. The problem starts however when it tries to do both at once.Slot wise its gonna have 8 turret hardpoints, 8 high slots and 8 low slots. Whether it has one more slot than the Apocalypse isn't really decided but its quite clear that if it does then it will be a med slot.
It can only fit a better tank than an Apoc if it turns off its guns and never turns them on or uses projectiles. Even if you downrank your weapons(using Dual Heavy Pulse vs. Megapulses on the Apoc) your lasers will still be consuming more cap/second on the Abaddon than they would be on the Apoc, and thus your tank will be correspondingly weaker. That's the big problem - it can only fill one of the two roles the dev blog describes.
|
chaos98
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:09:00 -
[88]
i think what most people are forgetting is it's armor resistance bonus, while on most ships you need to use a fair amount of low slots just for reistance boni with the abaddons included bonus it will be far easier to tank, requiring less slots for reistances, therefore giving more slots for capacitor recharging mods and such.
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:09:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kaeten
Originally by: Krulla
Amarrians get the PERFECT gankship and still whine?
Do you people just whine on principle or..?
I don't understand them eaither, they get THE PERFECT GANK SHIP and whine
Please - fly amarr for a while and you will see why "perfect gank ships" dont work anymore. Atm when you set up for gank (3 damage mods) you still need to tank, cause mixed setups win the battles not "pure ganks".
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:11:00 -
[90]
Originally by: chaos98
i think what most people are forgetting is it's armor resistance bonus, while on most ships you need to use a fair amount of low slots just for reistance boni with the abaddons included bonus it will be far easier to tank, requiring less slots for reistances, therefore giving more slots for capacitor recharging mods and such.
Resistance bonii (sp?) is similiar to 1x EANM t2. Yes you can get a bit higher resists than others as a result, but it is not that much (same problem as sacri vs zealot tanking ability).
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:11:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Wodin Drukvik
It can only fit a better tank than an Apoc if it turns off its guns and never turns them on or uses projectiles. Even if you downrank your weapons(using Dual Heavy Pulse vs. Megapulses on the Apoc) your lasers will still be consuming more cap/second on the Abaddon than they would be on the Apoc, and thus your tank will be correspondingly weaker. That's the big problem - it can only fill one of the two roles the dev blog describes.
I realize this... but tell me: Do you think it would cause a problem for game balance to have a ship that can tank better than the Apoc and gank better than the Geddon at the same time?
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:13:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 21:13:51
Originally by: Dixon
I realize this... but tell me: Do you think it would cause a problem for game balance to have a ship that can tank better than the Apoc and gank better than the Geddon at the same time?
But why amarr cant get any other type of bonuses for their ships? Optimal? EWar? Drone?
Why all amarr BS have to "tank" or "gank"? Why cant they have something new for example?
|
hylleX
Spontaneous Defenestration
Coalition of Carebear Killers
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:13:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Kaeten
Originally by: Krulla
Amarrians get the PERFECT gankship and still whine?
Do you people just whine on principle or..?
I don't understand them eaither, they get THE PERFECT GANK SHIP and whine
Try a geddon? 60mill vs 150? u get 14% more dps with abaddon with the trade that it uses 100% more cap with a built in EAN which u can just fit anyway.
The geddon can atleast fire for a few minutes before its dry and plates works on it too.
---------------------------------------------------------
|
Venatus Phoenix
Ars Caelestis
HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:14:00 -
[94]
I was really hoping it'd be a drone ship. Yea, cry death and all that but with a name like Abaddon and the big launch port in the middle of it, it was screaming to be one. I wanted a BS Arbitrator.
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:15:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Wodin Drukvik
Even if you downrank your weapons(using Dual Heavy Pulse vs. Megapulses on the Apoc) your lasers will still be consuming more cap
Artially aside, our cruisers are forced to fit small guns. Now we need medium guns on our new battleship.
It all make sense.
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:22:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 21:27:38
Linkage
(my response from other topic):
Abaddon vs new BBoat is same as Geddon vs blaster mega. And abby vs mega... depends on drone amount on Abby.
Question now... Why not to give abby the same bonuses as geddon has (so dump armor stuff, add -10% cap usage)?. It will be exactly same as geddon (+1 turret) but thx to higher grid/cpu (hope so) it will be able to fit at least partial tank.
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:26:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:26:19
So the Amarr suck eh?
Linkage
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:29:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 21:29:24
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:26:19
So the Amarr suck eh?
Linkage
Ummm actually it is same as was before:
comparing Abaddon to new BBoat is same as Geddon to mega.
Also... this is not only the game of "who has more DPS" mind you :)
|
Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:30:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Wodin Drukvik on 25/07/2006 21:30:41
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Wodin Drukvik
It can only fit a better tank than an Apoc if it turns off its guns and never turns them on or uses projectiles. Even if you downrank your weapons(using Dual Heavy Pulse vs. Megapulses on the Apoc) your lasers will still be consuming more cap/second on the Abaddon than they would be on the Apoc, and thus your tank will be correspondingly weaker. That's the big problem - it can only fill one of the two roles the dev blog describes.
I realize this... but tell me: Do you think it would cause a problem for game balance to have a ship that can tank better than the Apoc and gank better than the Geddon at the same time?
Certainly. That's why I specified downranking the lasers to the smaller variety.
Abaddon Cap/s with 8xDual Heavy Pulse(Multifreq): 18.75 cap per laser every 2.51s for 59cap/s consumption.
Apoc Cap/s with 8xMega Pulse(Multifreq): 15 cap per laser every 4.34s for 27.6cap/s consumption.
To get an equivalent cap consumption from weapons as an Apoc with a full rack of Megapulses, you need to go down to 4 Dual Heavy Pulse lasers.
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:31:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 21:29:24
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:26:19
So the Amarr suck eh?
Linkage
Ummm actually it is same as was before:
comparing Abaddon to new BBoat is same as Geddon to mega.
Also... this is not only the game of "who has more DPS" mind you :)
I know, otherwise i would probably go kill myself (being minmatar).
But it might still make some people feel better. Maybe. 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:32:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Dixon on 25/07/2006 21:35:09
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2853/dpst2supercloserangerb0.jpg
(my response from other topic):
Abaddon vs new BBoat is same as Geddon vs blaster mega. And abby vs mega... depends on drone amount on Abby.
Question now... Why not to give abby the same bonuses as geddon has (so dump armor stuff, add -10% cap usage)?. It will be exactly same as geddon (+1 turret) but thx to higher grid/cpu (hope so) it will be able to fit at least partial tank.
Because then you'd just have another geddon, albeit an upgraded one. Also, don't you find it hypocritical of you to suggest the same bonuses as the Geddon just after posting this steaming pile:
Originally by: Deva Blackwhiner
But why amarr cant get any other type of bonuses for their ships? Optimal? EWar? Drone?
Why all amarr BS have to "tank" or "gank"? Why cant they have something new for example?
Stop whining, let the damn thing get released before you declare it broken. I want this ship... I just love the thought of it.
Quote:
To get an equivalent cap consumption from weapons as an Apoc with a full rack of Megapulses, you need to go down to 4 Dual Heavy Pulse lasers.
OHRLY? Does the ship with the RoF bonus use more cap
If you don't like amarr ships don't use them, there are plenty of us who love them.
|
Stamm
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:33:00 -
[102]
Was it announced if these would be in Kali 1, or if they would be in a later part?
I'll find a use, somehow, for an Abaddon, so I want to get in one :)
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:34:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Stamm
Was it announced if these would be in Kali 1, or if they would be in a later part?
I'll find a use, somehow, for an Abaddon, so I want to get in one :)
They are in Kali One. September.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:26:19
So the Amarr suck eh?
Linkage
Those graphs are in many cases pointless, I wish they werent used as often. Its like saying 'look how much damage tach geddon can deal' completly ignoring that it cant even fit a rep.
|
Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:35:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Dixon
Stop whining, let the damn thing get released before you declare it broken. I want this ship... I just love the thought of it.
If you don't like amarr ships don't use them, there are plenty of us who love them.
If it's released broken, it will take a very, very long time to get rebalanced. Constructive criticism now, when the developers are looking at and tweaking the ships, may well actually be heard and acted upon in a timely manner.
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:35:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Stamm
I'll find a use, somehow, for an Abaddon, so I want to get in one :)
Trade runs.
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:36:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Dixon
If you don't like amarr ships don't use them, there are plenty of us who love them.
Actually except for most amarr ships (except capitals and commands) i can fly:
minmatar shuttle
caldari shuttle
gallente shuttle
So im amarr purist here. And i like when my ships work. Geddon is nice, apoc is mediciore. New toy? "can be set as apoc or geddon" (tank/gank)... Someone had really good idea there.
|
Shadowsword
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:44:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 25/07/2006 21:44:54
I can see the Abaddon becoming a killing machine IF you put engineering-related officer mods in it, maybe even more than a Raven with equivalent fitting.
It could also be good in combat with a cap injector, but as soon as you get out of charge you're screwed.
The problem with that ship, aside from offering nothing new to Amarr players, is that pure gank setups don't work, and pure tank setups have a very limited usefullness (if you don't play the goat, what's the point of tanking if you can't kill?).
Maybe with a low slot config of 2 1600 plates, 2 EANM II and remote drone repairers you could get a decent solo pvp ship, so long that you avoid being pinned down...
------------------------------------------
Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward?
Shadowsword: Because of Amar philosophy: whatever happened, if they need to flee they can honestly sa |
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:50:00 -
[109]
I was thinking along the lines of:
Heavy tank + 4-5 guns and 3-4 nosf. Then it *might* work, but... you can do same thing on apoc and geddon :/
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 21:56:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Edited by: Shadowsword on 25/07/2006 21:44:54
I can see the Abaddon becoming a killing machine IF you put engineering-related officer mods in it, maybe even more than a Raven with equivalent fitting.
It could also be good in combat with a cap injector, but as soon as you get out of charge you're screwed.
The problem with that ship, aside from offering nothing new to Amarr players, is that pure gank setups don't work, and pure tank setups have a very limited usefullness (if you don't play the goat, what's the point of tanking if you can't kill?).
Maybe with a low slot config of 2 1600 plates, 2 EANM II and remote drone repairers you could get a decent solo pvp ship, so long that you avoid being pinned down...
armour rep drones can repair your ship now? when did this happen that will own hard core....like really hardcore
|
Clavius XIV
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:08:00 -
[111]
One positive note, there is now a role for players without large t2 guns in fleet battles, jump into an Augoror or Guardian, or fly a bestower with 800 charges.
|
Deandra Laan
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:10:00 -
[112]
Maybe it's time to release XL cap batteries....
|
Agama
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:10:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Copied from the blog feedback thread:
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ok i did some calculations :)
ABADDON:
Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2
It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns
Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second...
Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O
'nuff said tbh
Aye. I was really looking forward to this ship (had a pic as my wallpaper on the pc for a while now). However with the insane cap usage on these beast it will just suck ass.
Heck....even a geddon WITH a cap reduction has problems with sustained combat. Unless lasers as a whole get the cap reduction built in (and a replacement bonus on the other amarr ships) I really cannot see this ship being worth the minerals its made of.
I am just really annoyed I am amarr specced now. What a waste of freakin time. I was really hoping for a big Arby to be honest. 
'Death solves all problems- no man, no problem' J.V. Stalin, 1918
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:16:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Agama
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Copied from the blog feedback thread:
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ok i did some calculations :)
ABADDON:
Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2
It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns
Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second...
Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O
'nuff said tbh
Aye. I was really looking forward to this ship (had a pic as my wallpaper on the pc for a while now). However with the insane cap usage on these beast it will just suck ass.
Heck....even a geddon WITH a cap reduction has problems with sustained combat. Unless lasers as a whole get the cap reduction built in (and a replacement bonus on the other amarr ships) I really cannot see this ship being worth the minerals its made of.
I am just really annoyed I am amarr specced now. What a waste of freakin time. I was really hoping for a big Arby to be honest.
Me too man a drone boat would have been all too cool...but alas another shooter/junker
|
Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:22:00 -
[115]
leaving the cap discussion aside,
i guess every1 agrees that its not rlly a new ship,
it does what a geddon or the apoc does.. boring imo.
now making a bhallgorn like nos sucker,
or a big arbitrator wouldve been way more interesting.
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:30:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
leaving the cap discussion aside,
i guess every1 agrees that its not rlly a new ship,
it does what a geddon or the apoc does.. boring imo.
now making a bhallgorn like nos sucker,
or a big arbitrator wouldve been way more interesting.
/signed x 100000000
|
Stephar
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:33:00 -
[117]
This ship is garbage. The only reason Amarr use lasers is the 50% cap reduction.
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:37:00 -
[118]
oh well what can you say...time to train for gal domi (best bs imo) thats right I said it the domi is almost too hot. it is so flexable but good at the same time. Being that I have lvl 5 drone interface the domi is a-friggin mazing. but oh well...saves me a 150mil for an abbadon knowing that it would jsut get blown outta the water hardcore...
|
Tassi
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:41:00 -
[119]
To put in 3 battleships needs 3 concepts that are used by this race.
The devs have no third concept for amarr, thats why we get this.
Is it that hard to think of a third concept devs?
|
Mahavy Seth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:45:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Mahavy Seth on 25/07/2006 22:46:38
Edited: correct some of my horrible english :)
The most funny thing of this rant is Dixon replies. He totally do not understood anything and seems to battle with awful rage against amarr race, forcing himself to type thewt abaddon id overpowered for many things, but mainly cause he can gank like a geddon and tank like an apoc.
Let me say that it is clear that Abaddon cannot tank and gank, like megathron do. A megathron can be fitted to full gank, but it still have a acceptable tank. On abaddon, tux is right, can tank or gank ONLY.
It is totally useless that I can tank like a god, if I cannot activate my weapons, cause if I do this I will run out of cap and stop tanking.
Also, it is totally useless that I can gank like a mad but I cannot activate the repper or I will run out of energy.
Cap injectors are bonuses on others ships. On Abaddon are a must, like ammunitions for megathron. Abaddon will run awesome until I have cap injectors, so, if CCP say to me that I have a 3000 cargo space, I will say that Abaddon is a awesome high ISK ships.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:47:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Tassi
To put in 3 battleships needs 3 concepts that are used by this race.
The devs have no third concept for amarr, thats why we get this.
Is it that hard to think of a third concept devs?
well what concept would you give to amarr, considering their battle filosophy (hard hitting lasers + bigass tanks)?
oh and btw, all the ships that don't obey to that are ships that were designed to cover the holes of their "I SHOOT AND TANK YARR" strategy.
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:50:00 -
[122]
hahaha awesome high isk ship is right...ill just save my isk for an archon...Thats a cool progression of Amarr ships. arbi->carrier. oh well archon will be all to cool
*wishes he was loaded and could afford an archon
|
Azerrad
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:50:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
Edited by: Mahavy Seth on 25/07/2006 22:46:38
Edited: correct some of my horrible english :)
The most funny thing of this rant is Dixon replies. He totally do not understood anything and seems to battle with awful rage against amarr race, forcing himself to type thewt abaddon id overpowered for many things, but mainly cause he can gank like a geddon and tank like an apoc.
Let me say that it is clear that Abaddon cannot tank and gank, like megathron do. A megathron can be fitted to full gank, but it still have a acceptable tank. On abaddon, tux is right, can tank or gank ONLY.
It is totally useless that I can tank like a god, if I cannot activate my weapons, cause if I do this I will run out of cap and stop tanking.
Also, it is totally useless that I can gank like a mad but I cannot activate the repper or I will run out of energy.
Cap injectors are bonuses on others ships. On Abaddon are a must, like ammunitions for megathron. Abaddon will run awesome until I have cap injectors, so, if CCP say to me that I have a 3000 cargo space, I will say that Abaddon is a awesome high ISK ships.
Why do you think every blasterthron fits a cap injector? Because that ship can not possibly function without one. The same will be true for the Abaddon only it will hit much farther than a blasterthron for similar damage. The lack of a cap bonus is meaningless with cap injectors.
Result? Most likely overpowered.
|
Deadeye Dave
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:51:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
or a big arbitrator wouldve been way more interesting.
I would of loved a big Arbitrator would be way more fun. In my opinion when the Abaddon comes out I might buy one when price is reasonable but I don't really see why when Armageddon or Apocalypse can do the same jobs and are cheaper. Big Arbitrator maybe with an 8-4-8 layout would be fun, bonus to drone damage and keep the resist bonus too. That probably sounds a little overpowered but its something I wouldnt mind flying 
|
Mahavy Seth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:52:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Tassi
To put in 3 battleships needs 3 concepts that are used by this race.
The devs have no third concept for amarr, thats why we get this.
Is it that hard to think of a third concept devs?
well what concept would you give to amarr, considering their battle filosophy (hard hitting lasers + bigass tanks)?
oh and btw, all the ships that don't obey to that are ships that were designed to cover the holes of their "I SHOOT AND TANK YARR" strategy.
Role: Short Period Ganker ---> 5% ROF and 5% Damage ---> awful damage for short period or at very high costs and nearly no tank
Role: NOS Battleship ---> 10% laser consumption & 20% transfer amount ---> a sort of bhaalgorn but tier3, with few PG and CPU to make a bad tank may be - or lack of slots to balance - it must not be a rule that all BS t3 must have 20 slots! May be some of them have so good bonuses that for balance they have less slots.
Role: Amarr Drone Boat ---> 5% to drone hits and damage 10% to NOS drones draining.
I can continue forever... just a bit of imagination.
|
Polydectes
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:53:00 -
[126]
I like the idea of a new amarr one, if its anything on the test database it will have close to 27,000 grid with engie 5.
With the 8 lows, you got room for a cap power relay, and with the resist bonus, you only need 1 EAN II to get minimum 50% resists in all (with bs 5) and 2 for great resists, saving another low, so now you have 5 lows left, 3 for damage mods, 1 large rep, and another cap relay.
while the 4 (or 5 mids) you fit a cap recharge or two, a couple sensor boosters, and maybe 7 tach's if there is enough CPU, although you might want to drop a EAN II to fit a RCU, or CPU, for an 8th tach.
I think its going to be a mean fleet ship because of the great damage, and in fleet battles, 2 cap power relays, and a recharger should give you all the time you need in a fleet battle, as most people know, you are either at 100% or getting shot at by 20 bs's, and in that case, reistances wont matter too much.
-------------------------------------------------
|
Mahavy Seth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:57:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Azerrad
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
Edited by: Mahavy Seth on 25/07/2006 22:46:38
Edited: correct some of my horrible english :)
The most funny thing of this rant is Dixon replies. He totally do not understood anything and seems to battle with awful rage against amarr race, forcing himself to type thewt abaddon id overpowered for many things, but mainly cause he can gank like a geddon and tank like an apoc.
Let me say that it is clear that Abaddon cannot tank and gank, like megathron do. A megathron can be fitted to full gank, but it still have a acceptable tank. On abaddon, tux is right, can tank or gank ONLY.
It is totally useless that I can tank like a god, if I cannot activate my weapons, cause if I do this I will run out of cap and stop tanking.
Also, it is totally useless that I can gank like a mad but I cannot activate the repper or I will run out of energy.
Cap injectors are bonuses on others ships. On Abaddon are a must, like ammunitions for megathron. Abaddon will run awesome until I have cap injectors, so, if CCP say to me that I have a 3000 cargo space, I will say that Abaddon is a awesome high ISK ships.
Why do you think every blasterthron fits a cap injector? Because that ship can not possibly function without one. The same will be true for the Abaddon only it will hit much farther than a blasterthron for similar damage. The lack of a cap bonus is meaningless with cap injectors.
Result? Most likely overpowered.
Blaster cap consumption are like lasers with 50% bonus built it. You can run it with cap power relays or cap recharger easly. On abaddon you need injectors... no other ways, and, on megathron, injectors are a bonus to cap... on abaddon are a thing to let it RUN.
It is like I fire with 16 Blasers on abaddon... for get a +14% increse from a gedodn where I CAN MAINTAIN LASER FIRE FOREVER WITH CAP POWER RELAYES AND RECHARGERS?
|
Aramendel
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:58:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Aramendel on 25/07/2006 23:00:12
It was quite clear that it would be a gunship, though, there were pictures of it with 8 tachyons fitted floating around.
Not that this makes it less disappointing, just less surprising. It will be a better fleetship than the apoc or arma, mind you, but it will not bring *anything* new to the amarr fleet.
Exept that it will be the first amarr ship which will need an ammo supply (aka cap chargers) for t1 weapons. But I find it arguable that this was a hole which had to be filled.
|
Mahavy Seth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:59:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Polydectes
I like the idea of a new amarr one, if its anything on the test database it will have close to 27,000 grid with engie 5.
With the 8 lows, you got room for a cap power relay, and with the resist bonus, you only need 1 EAN II to get minimum 50% resists in all (with bs 5) and 2 for great resists, saving another low, so now you have 5 lows left, 3 for damage mods, 1 large rep, and another cap relay.
while the 4 (or 5 mids) you fit a cap recharge or two, a couple sensor boosters, and maybe 7 tach's if there is enough CPU, although you might want to drop a EAN II to fit a RCU, or CPU, for an 8th tach.
I think its going to be a mean fleet ship because of the great damage, and in fleet battles, 2 cap power relays, and a recharger should give you all the time you need in a fleet battle, as most people know, you are either at 100% or getting shot at by 20 bs's, and in that case, reistances wont matter too much.
That may be a solution, but you think that is like we are a 8/2/4 because all others slots are a must for cap rechargers?
|
ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:00:00 -
[130]
I can forsee this becoming a new fleet ship of choice for the Amarr. I'll certainly have to snap one up for my Amarr T2 specced char.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Azerrad
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:05:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
Blaster cap consumption are like lasers with 50% bonus built it. You can run it with cap power relays or cap recharger easly. On abaddon you need injectors... no other ways, and, on megathron, injectors are a bonus to cap... on abaddon are a thing to let it RUN.
It is like I fire with 16 Blasers on abaddon... for get a +14% increse from a gedodn where I CAN MAINTAIN LASER FIRE FOREVER WITH CAP POWER RELAYES AND RECHARGERS?
Except for the fact that you burn through your cap MWDing into blasters incredibly limited range. You can't run MWD and your tank long enough to get into blaster range and then power your guns with just cap relays and rechargers unless you plan to devote your entire ship to cap recharging. The Abaddon won't have to worry about range nearly as much as the Mega and will still do similar damage.
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:05:00 -
[132]
So here is what I'm seeing in general:
Two Modes
Mode One:
Abaddon outdamages Armageddon but can not last as long.
Mode Two:
Abaddon tanks better than Apocalypse while sacrificing damage out put to sustain cap.
So the Abaddon is going to be the new "best tank" in Level 4's and/or Complexes (not being able to do them solo of course, because it probably won't be able to do enough DPS to break tanks while in tanking mode) or you can use it as a gank-mobile.
We have a good tanker BS and we have a good ganking BS and this one can choose to do one or the other, better, than the previous BS.
With Cap Injectors I think we have seen the last of the tachygeddon for sniping/ganking. In fact I'm really having a hard time seeing a use for the armageddon for ganking if the Abaddon can do it better, just for a shorter amount of time.
The passive resists on the gank setup are going to be sick (not to mention they'll be using cap injectors probably).
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Polydectes
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:12:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
Originally by: Polydectes
I like the idea of a new amarr one, if its anything on the test database it will have close to 27,000 grid with engie 5.
With the 8 lows, you got room for a cap power relay, and with the resist bonus, you only need 1 EAN II to get minimum 50% resists in all (with bs 5) and 2 for great resists, saving another low, so now you have 5 lows left, 3 for damage mods, 1 large rep, and another cap relay.
while the 4 (or 5 mids) you fit a cap recharge or two, a couple sensor boosters, and maybe 7 tach's if there is enough CPU, although you might want to drop a EAN II to fit a RCU, or CPU, for an 8th tach.
I think its going to be a mean fleet ship because of the great damage, and in fleet battles, 2 cap power relays, and a recharger should give you all the time you need in a fleet battle, as most people know, you are either at 100% or getting shot at by 20 bs's, and in that case, reistances wont matter too much.
That may be a solution, but you think that is like we are a 8/2/4 because all others slots are a must for cap rechargers?
Pretty much, or just hope the fleet battle doesnt last more than 60 seconds, and take a relay or charger off.
-------------------------------------------------
|
Testicular Testes
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:12:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Copied from the blog feedback thread:
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ok i did some calculations :)
ABADDON:
Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2
It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns
Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second...
Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O
'nuff said tbh
Oh no, a decline of 3 cap a second. Whatever shall you do ? That's only indefinite firing with innate regeneration, or without it a measly half hour of non-stop shooting. Who can kill anything in half an hour?
Jesus people, get a grip.
|
LWMaverick
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:17:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into.
So the Geddon is crap and not worth fitting lasers into?
There's no such thing as Gankageddon anymore you know...oh well, at least it's a cheap Smartbomb suiciding platform.
Many bad things can be said about the laser platforms, but that, was utterly clueless tbfh.
Poverty  |
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:17:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Testicular Testes
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Copied from the blog feedback thread:
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ok i did some calculations :)
ABADDON:
Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2
It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns
Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second...
Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O
'nuff said tbh
Oh no, a decline of 3 cap a second. Whatever shall you do ? That's only indefinite firing with innate regeneration, or without it a measly half hour of non-stop shooting. Who can kill anything in half an hour?
Jesus people, get a grip.
Actually it is firing as long as you have cap charges. Then when you will have to revert back to normal cap regeneration you will be able to use 2-4 guns non-stop.
And of course we arent including any repairers etc on the ship - only guns. If you want to rep you need more cap - cause innate regeneration probably wont hold one large repper.
(also it is 54 or so cap recharge actually - i forgot to include reload time).
|
Stephar
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:17:00 -
[137]
I guess the thing that irks me the most about the Abaddon is it goes so much against Amarr design philosophy. All of the top-tier Amarr ships (Punisher, Maller, Prophecy, Apoc) have one thing in common: sustainability. From what I can tell, the Abaddon will probably be overpowered for short engagements, and underpowered for long ones. That's all fine and everything, but this isn't exactly what I had in mind while working up the Amarr tree.
|
Seele011
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:18:00 -
[138]
eve is a mmo, you dont play alone
there are energy transfer-arrays to transfer energy to those cap-eating monsters
but i also have to admit these bonuses are nothing really new.
the tank will be awesome, and the damage is only nice while fitting all 8 turrets. that limits u in the use of high-slot modules like remote-support modules.
amarr BS
Tier 1 -> guns
Tier 2 -> guns
Tier 3 -> also guns
caldari BS
tier 1 -> ew
tier 2 -> missiles
tier 3 -> guns
that is the only thing to complain about
|
Nafri
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:24:00 -
[139]
I kinda think thats its interesting
for very short fights, the abaddon should be the right choice probably. Let a cap injector running and see your lasers shredding through the enemies.
The resistance allows you to do a nice resistance/plate tanking setup.
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
LWMaverick
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:24:00 -
[140]
I really dont know what to say about this ship... I really, really cant wait to fit this ship.
And ffs, at least give it 5 medslots, if not 6, and remove 1-2 lowslots, pretty please.
/Mav
Poverty |
Mahavy Seth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:24:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Mahavy Seth on 25/07/2006 23:24:10
Originally by: Seele011
eve is a mmo, you dont play alone
there are energy transfer-arrays to transfer energy to those cap-eating monsters
but i also have to admit these bonuses are nothing really new.
the tank will be awesome, and the damage is only nice while fitting all 8 turrets. that limits u in the use of high-slot modules like remote-support modules.
amarr BS
Tier 1 -> guns
Tier 2 -> guns
Tier 3 -> also guns
caldari BS
tier 1 -> ew
tier 2 -> missiles
tier 3 -> guns
that is the only thing to complain about
2 Damage battlehsips are better that a gang of 1 damage batteship and another one that support the first, cause the first one doesn't unleash the damage of 2 battlehsips
Edited: that also why no one use logistic ships.
|
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:32:00 -
[142]
Theres no way this ship can tank well while using lasers even dhps. I was hoping for this to be a drone boat but instead we get a ship that has no sustainablity if using lasers and I suspect that the best pvp setups will invlove using projctiles.
The geddon is going to outclass it as a gank ship due to the geddons allbeit limited sustainability and only 14% lower dps which may turn out to be less than 14% if the abbadon has a 75m3 drone bay. The apoc is going to be a better npc ship since it can run a rack of pulses and a dual lrg rep tank with relative ease.
It wouldn't suprise me if a plate/dhp geddon could kick the **** out of the abbadon in a tank contest(if the abbadon used projctiles it would prolly beat the geddon )
I would have given the ship this layout/bonuses- 10% to laser cap useages and 10% Drone Dmg/Mining Yeild, and HP. 6/6/8 ot 7/5/8 slot lay out with 6 or 7 turret hardpoints, 375m3 drone bay, 14000-16500 grid and 600-650cpu.
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:32:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Seele011
eve is a mmo, you dont play alone
there are energy transfer-arrays to transfer energy to those cap-eating monsters
but i also have to admit these bonuses are nothing really new.
the tank will be awesome, and the damage is only nice while fitting all 8 turrets. that limits u in the use of high-slot modules like remote-support modules.
amarr BS
Tier 1 -> guns
Tier 2 -> guns
Tier 3 -> also guns
caldari BS
tier 1 -> ew
tier 2 -> missiles
tier 3 -> guns
that is the only thing to complain about
Bing Bing Bing Bing we have a winner...or am I the only one saying that? I just wanted a different something.
with the abbadon some 85% or so of our TI ships are all laser/tank based. (which sucks imo cause not very hard to counter amarrian ships) we have the crucifier, inquisister (which is a wierd one), tormentor, Arbitrator and augoror as our teh 1 non laser plat forms ( I skipped the pilgrim/curse cause counting tech 2 ships would suck just another example of our immesly laser geared ideas) but hey you wanted amarr for their "hard hitting rock solid tanking" and you got em...well they can kinda tank well when not shooting sh1t at people for retarded amounts of capacitor
*lets get the Abbadon now so we can see how sh1t-like lasers really are*
7 pulse sh1t-beams=big sh1t... so we can assume that 8 big sh1t-beams=one f0cking huge big laser sh1t-fest*
|
Clavius XIV
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:37:00 -
[144]
Some quick back of the envelope calculation... assuming you only need 1 injector to keep guns going, and assuming 675m3 cargo, you can support a bit over 4 minutes of continous firing with a carohold full of 800s.
How does this space/time efficency compare to ammo using battleships?
|
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:38:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
It seems that CCP is unwilling to give the Abbadon some new and interesting bonuses. So here's my idea for what the Abbadon could be.
Slot Layout:
8-5-7
5 turret hardpoints, 0 launcher hardpoints
Bonuses:
5% Large Energy Turret Damage per level
5% Large Energy Turret rate of fire per level
Drone bay:
75m3
Speed and agility:
Same relative speed and agility as Zealot compared to other HACs should be applied to Abbadon versus other race battleships
So at max skills this would give you slightly more damage than an Apoc with a bit weaker tank. On the upside, you get a lot more versatility with the 3 utility slots and 5 midslots. Think of it as a turret version of a NOS Domi
but the whole reason the nos domi is awesome is because it doesnt use turret/missiles.
|
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:42:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Clavius XIV
Some quick back of the envelope calculation... assuming you only need 1 injector to keep guns going, and assuming 675m3 cargo, you can support a bit over 4 minutes of continous firing with a carohold full of 800s.
How does this space/time efficency compare to ammo using battleships?
If youre npcing it's terribly ineffecnt and you would be much better off using the apoc or geddon . Pvp wise is stil pretty bad The raven can use its weapons and tank for a short period of time before needing to use the injector, the tempest can shoot and tank for a bit longer depending on if you fitted and mwd or not, , the mega might need to use a couple charges if it had to mwd into range and can only run a few rep cycles before needing injection, the domi ofent doesn't have to use the injector if its nos target still has cap but will have to use it after a while if the target goes dry.
|
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:44:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Toaster Oven on 25/07/2006 23:45:28
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
but the whole reason the nos domi is awesome is because it doesnt use turret/missiles.
No, it's because it can mix EW, NOS, tank, and damage at the same time. Something which could be accomplished with my revised stats as well.
|
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:47:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
Edited by: Toaster Oven on 25/07/2006 23:45:28
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
but the whole reason the nos domi is awesome is because it doesnt use turret/missiles.
No, it's because it can mix EW, NOS, tank, and damage at the same time. Something which could be accomplished with my revised stats as well.
but if it was as fast as a zealot lrg pulses would have a hell of a time tracking.
|
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:50:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
but if it was as fast as a zealot lrg pulses would have a hell of a time tracking.
Reading comprehension? I said relative speed. So it would be about as fast as a Tempest is right now.
|
Wheya
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:51:00 -
[150]
In this age of 'small' 800 cap booster charges the energy bonus of the Apoc isn't that great anymore for PvP. The cap advantage of an Apoc only is good with plenty cap relays/rechargers. Such setups work fine for PvE but not for PvP where you prefer EW and other stuff.
The Abaddon seems to be the perfect gank/gang ship. A gang of several Abaddons will shred anything to pieces in seconds within a range of 20km. The huge cap consumption won't matter in such situations most of the time unless you weant to chain kill constantly. The Abaddon seems to become a pure PvP ship and I like it. Mission runners will prefer either Apoc or projectile weapons on Abaddon.
The Aboddon most likely will be an excellent support ship for the Avatar with its 7.5% cap boost for all gang members. Of course we wont see that many Avatars anytime soon so this argument is a bit flawed.
Amarrian ships are fine, lasers are fine, the Abaddon most likely will be very powerfull. The problems are: high EM armor resistance on most opponents because of EANII and increased HP (+plates) which nerfed EM weapons the most because of the high base EM resistance. A boost to lasers or amarrian ships would be the wrong solution.
As long as we don't have other stats like armor HP, capacitor size, cargo space(!) or cpu/grid it's pretty worthless to start a discussion about the Abaddon, though.
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:52:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Tassi
To put in 3 battleships needs 3 concepts that are used by this race.
The devs have no third concept for amarr, thats why we get this.
Is it that hard to think of a third concept devs?
3 Concepts!?!?! What the F0ck we don't even have two... I meen for sh1ts f0cking sake man we have as$-beam/sh1t shooters that eat out own tank... we have 5 ships that are not ****-shooter based, the best being the arbi. and that turns into what....umm an Acrhon wow some quick arse progression...cruiser->carrier. Jesus H Christ I am the only one thinking that Tux and the entire CCP squad loaths the entire Amarrian existance...for all you people out there reading forums and still thinking that "hey amrr sounds cool...kinda tuff n stuff" DON'T; FORGET IT RUN F0CKER WE SUCK
*waits for ccp to ban him for "being too angry"
7 pulse sh1t-beams=big sh1t... so we can assume that 8 big sh1t-beams=one F0cking Huge-Big Sh1t fest |
Andreask14
Sensus Numinis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:56:00 -
[152]
Dont dream dreams.
Dont dream about a really cool new amarr bs, dont dream.
Dont dream dreams.
The Abbadon will still only be usefull for NPCing when not using its lasers, or it wont sustain its tank.
In PVP it will actually be useful i bet, having a great passive tank (this bonus screams for a EANM tank) and using its cap for the lasers, just imagine a full rack of 8 tachys with +25% of refire, these will lay down the hurt even if the enemy has 80% EM resits.
Even with the proposed bonuses, this ship will be the amarrians domi if it gets the 5th midslot, IF it gets a drone bay of 125m¦ like the geddon, which i doubt it will, because amarrians HAVE to be gimped in some way, right?
________________________________________________
Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are. |
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 23:56:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
but if it was as fast as a zealot lrg pulses would have a hell of a time tracking.
Reading comprehension? I said relative speed. So it would be about as fast as a Tempest is right now.
even with tempest speeds mega pulses would have a hard time tracking with in webrange idealy you could change the rof bouns to 7.5% and give it a 10% tracking bonus in place of the dmg one then it would be more workable.
|
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:00:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
even with tempest speeds mega pulses would have a hard time tracking with in webrange idealy you could change the rof bouns to 7.5% and give it a 10% tracking bonus in place of the dmg one then it would be more workable.
You can't have everything can you? Don't use speed to orbit but instead to dictate range. Heavy Pulse II has the worst tracking of all cruiser close range guns yet you don't see any semi-competent Zealot pilot complaining about being unable to hit other cruisers now do you? Losing the double damage bonus would drop it's DPS output with only 5 turrets down into the laughable range.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:00:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
The most funny thing of this rant is Dixon replies. He totally do not understood anything and seems to battle with awful rage against amarr race, forcing himself to type thewt abaddon id overpowered for many things, but mainly cause he can gank like a geddon and tank like an apoc.
Please tell me what I'm not understanding.
BTW: Amarr BS lvl5, large pulse laser spec lvl5... I rarely fly anything that's not Amarr in pvp... caldari if I want to be lame. So, no I don't hate the Amarr race, although I don't like this new Amarr-whining concert that seems to be touring these forums.
I speak as a semi-specced Amarr pilot and I say this ship will pwn... YES, it will be skill-intensive. YES, it will be hard to maintain a tank but in the end I think this ship will pwn...
|
Khal Grayrest
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:06:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Grimpak
what concept would you give to amarr, considering their battle filosophy (hard hitting lasers + bigass tanks)?
Missles!
Despite the videos showing off a broadside of tachys I was still holding out hope for a drone BS. Abaddon is traditionally depicted with a bunch of locusts coming from his mouth, and the model looks like it has a big mouth for spewing out drones. Ah well.
As is, it'll be an excellent sniping ship. Rack of Tachys, couple 1600s in the lows and you'll probably have 20k+ armor with 50%+ resists, plenty of time to warp out. |
Andreask14
Sensus Numinis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:13:00 -
[157]
Duh, Tier 2 BC will have cap injector RoF bonus plus the resists !!!
________________________________________________
Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are. |
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:13:00 -
[158]
Everyone calm down!
We still have a chance to get something cool with the Tier 2 BC!!!
I'm hoping for a mobile church.
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
SengH
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:29:00 -
[159]
whatever happens.. this is gonna be 1 ******* insane fleet BS.
|
BirdBleed
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:36:00 -
[160]
wheres our ******* drone boat ?
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:36:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Dixon
I speak as a semi-specced Amarr pilot and I say this ship will pwn... YES, it will be skill-intensive. YES, it will be hard to maintain a tank but in the end I think this ship will pwn...
I just want to ask: in what way that BS wil PWN? And in what way it will be worth to buy one of them instead of 2 geddons (one breaks you have another)?
|
Nemain
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:44:00 -
[162]
Oh well, I guess my idea of changing my amarr specialised character to a minmattar or caldari one is a definete now. Final proof of the limited scope for the amarr ships when all they could come up with was a mix of the current 2 that doesn't seem as good as either. Ok it has a better damage output than the geddon but unlike the geddon it appears it can't sustain it, and it seems it will have a better tank than an apoc but, unlike the apoc will not be able to deal damage for any lengh of time and tank. So if I want damage output the geddon still seems to be the prime choice, If I want to fight and tank then the apoc seems the right choice, If I want to tbe the spawn tank in a complex then the abbadon seems to be the way to go. I hope the finished product doesn't prove this all to be true. I think it will just be final proof of the narrow unflexible rut that amarr has been carved into. We already have a 1 out of character ship in the frig class so it would not have been a big leap to do the same for the BS class, but I guess that's not to be. I have no desire to have to rely on the T2 khanid ships for any degree of flexibility, and with amarr no longer being the best at what they do in general I guess caldari ship training here I come, true flexible variety in every ship class.
|
Sniser
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:00:00 -
[163]
i like the new tier 3 bs. its a nice pvp / fleet ship. Mission runners go away
|
Kldraina
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:03:00 -
[164]
I imagine logistics drones could make Abaddon packs rather powerful. 5 Heavy armor rep drones, can repair as much as a T2 Large armor rep. |
DarkFollower
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:03:00 -
[165]
Ok , U guys are Insane , THIS is a good ship this is my Opinion now , maybe i'll reconsider it when i'll see it on the tranq but as Dixon said it won't the freeekign king of the hill and it won't be easy
Actually **** it , we'll see when it's released , But Man only that 5% armor resist is making me bleeeeeed, of course it will consume alot more cap , but if u try to put things like tachs wich consumes alot of cap u're gonna kill it *hint* , this thing and tachs = a big no no
i would have loved a drone bs though
Cap recharges on PvP ships Suxxor monkey ballzorz!! |
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:31:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I just want to ask: in what way that BS wil PWN? And in what way it will be worth to buy one of them instead of 2 geddons (one breaks you have another)?
This ship will pwn in the ganking department mainly. Well tanking can probably be achieved with 4 MP II and 4 Hvy nos, but who likes tanking? The reason it will be worth buying over 2 geddons is... well unless you intend on riding those 2 geddons like a pair of skis the abaddon will probably be better in many ways (not all, many).
|
Devoras2
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:33:00 -
[167]
Give the Apoc the 5% res to armor, and give the Abaddon the 5% cap increase pr lvl. That would even out the Abaddons cap issue and finally make the Apoc the king tank in the game.. a role many has agreed it should have!
Dev
And they call me slow.... hey! Thats an insult!
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:36:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I just want to ask: in what way that BS wil PWN? And in what way it will be worth to buy one of them instead of 2 geddons (one breaks you have another)?
This ship will pwn in the ganking department mainly. Well tanking can probably be achieved with 4 MP II and 4 Hvy nos, but who likes tanking? The reason it will be worth buying over 2 geddons is... well unless you intend on riding those 2 geddons like a pair of skis the abaddon will probably be better in many ways (not all, many).
I really DO hope ill meet some of abaddons with my pilgrim. Killing them might be a lot of fun :)
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:42:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I just want to ask: in what way that BS wil PWN? And in what way it will be worth to buy one of them instead of 2 geddons (one breaks you have another)?
This ship will pwn in the ganking department mainly. Well tanking can probably be achieved with 4 MP II and 4 Hvy nos, but who likes tanking? The reason it will be worth buying over 2 geddons is... well unless you intend on riding those 2 geddons like a pair of skis the abaddon will probably be better in many ways (not all, many).
I really DO hope ill meet some of abaddons with my pilgrim. Killing them might be a lot of fun :)
Well if Tuxfords wasn't lying about the NOS-fix I'd like to see that fight...
|
Nemain
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:48:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Devoras2
Give the Apoc the 5% res to armor, and give the Abaddon the 5% cap increase pr lvl. That would even out the Abaddons cap issue and finally make the Apoc the king tank in the game.. a role many has agreed it should have!
Dev
The only prob then is what about the geddon. Unless the abbadon can easily fit 8 tachs making it a high damage beam boat and the geddon being a faster pulse boat, who would bother with the geddon. Nah I think the abbadon needs a rethink a amarr 2 trick pony's are starting to wear a little thin. Give it machriel speed, mass and agility and it would make a viable short range DHP platform, while still enableing the geddon the flexibility in using beams or pulse. At least then it would bare some resemblence to the out of the norm executioner, and be significantly different to the apoc and geddon.
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:53:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Dixon
Well if Tuxfords wasn't lying about the NOS-fix I'd like to see that fight...
Surprise: i use neutralizers too ;p They are a bit better in killing cap :)
But thats OT so ill end it now :)
|
Captin Biltmore
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 01:54:00 -
[172]
I just want to know one thing....WHY is everyone acting so suprized?
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 02:03:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Captin Biltmore
Ok, this is what upset's me about this "Abomination". Every other Tier 3 BS can use both of it's bonus's at once to full effect....and they feed off of each other to enhance the whole ship. The Amarr Abomination can only take advantage of one or the other bonus.
So you're assuming the Abaddon cannot be fired upon while running his guns then?
|
Imode
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 02:19:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Captin Biltmore
Edited by: Captin Biltmore on 26/07/2006 02:02:45
Ok, this is what upset's me about this "Abomination". Every other Tier 3 BS can use both of it's bonus's at once to full effect....and they feed off of each other to enhance the whole ship. The Amarr Abomination can only take advantage of one or the other bonus.
I think you're reading too far into Tuxford's 'tank or gank but not both' comment.
The bonuses are situated so that the ship is incredibly cap hungry, that's it. Fit a cap booster, and both bonuses are fine. It's not like he's giving you a bonus to lasers and bonus to hybrids. Your claim that the Abaddon can only take advantage of one bonus at a time is absurd.
____________________________
|
Captin Biltmore
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 02:21:00 -
[175]
Of course...but it can't tank while firing it's guns (admited to by the dev post)...and whoever heard of passive armor tanking?
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
Judor
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 02:23:00 -
[176]
I think you guys should play around with the setups a bit, this ship looks like it could do prove to be quite nice in both the tank and gank department.
I must say that I do not have much experiance with the type of weapons the ship uses, but just looking at the modules out there i think you can make up for it.
given you will use 2 mid slots for whatever you want, you can throw in cap boosters, rechargers or relays a plenty. With the added resists, you will effectivily have to repair 25% less.
It may not have alot of flexability, but you can build it to do both fairly well i would imagine.
I could be wrong, but i think alot of people are over exagerating the problem, its just a bit of a difrent set up then anything else out there.
Judor
|
Emeline Cabernet
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 02:31:00 -
[177]
bahahahahahaha someone said tank better than apoc while doing less dmg i completly lost it... sry thats just lol
|
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 02:37:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Captin Biltmore
Ok, this is what upset's me about this "Abomination". Every other Tier 3 BS can use both of it's bonus's at once to full effect....and they feed off of each other to enhance the whole ship. The Amarr Abomination can only take advantage of one or the other bonus.
So you're assuming the Abaddon cannot be fired upon while running his guns then?
and i could slap on a enam II and some plates on a geddon and get basicly the same thing for 60mil vs 150. The point is this ship not only fails to be remotely versitle but also sucks are both of its intened roles you really shouldn't have to fit 2 cap injectors to run your guns, and theres a good chance that ship ship wont outdmg the geddon by more than a few % if it gets a 75m3 drone bay.
5x Ogre IIs - 316dps
5x Garde - 250dps
5x Hammerhead II - 158dps
3x Ogre II - 190dps
3x Garde - 150dps
Assuming the abbadon does around 1000-1300dps 100dps+ that the geddon gains on its drones + the geddons sustainablity makes the geddon a better laser platform.
Which leaves the amarr with the geddon which is great with pulses and can't fit tachs w/o rcus, the apoc that needs less rcus to fit tachs but doesnt do great dmg with them and the abbadon which should be able to fit tachs with relative ease(i hope) but doesn't have the cap to run them for any length of time.
What it comes down to is that either laser cap usage needs to be lowered so that its a bit higher than hybrid cap usage or all/some amarr gun ships need a fixed 50% cap bonus + 2 other bounses either way lasers and amarr in general need to be closely looked and and adjusted imo.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 03:00:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Captin Biltmore
Ok, this is what upset's me about this "Abomination". Every other Tier 3 BS can use both of it's bonus's at once to full effect....and they feed off of each other to enhance the whole ship. The Amarr Abomination can only take advantage of one or the other bonus.
So you're assuming the Abaddon cannot be fired upon while running his guns then?
and i could slap on a enam II and some plates on a geddon and get basicly the same thing for 60mil vs 150. The point is this ship not only fails to be remotely versitle but also sucks are both of its intened roles you really shouldn't have to fit 2 cap injectors to run your guns, and theres a good chance that ship ship wont outdmg the geddon by more than a few % if it gets a 75m3 drone bay.
5x Ogre IIs - 316dps
5x Garde - 250dps
5x Hammerhead II - 158dps
3x Ogre II - 190dps
3x Garde - 150dps
Assuming the abbadon does around 1000-1300dps 100dps+ that the geddon gains on its drones + the geddons sustainablity makes the geddon a better laser platform.
Which leaves the amarr with the geddon which is great with pulses and can't fit tachs w/o rcus, the apoc that needs less rcus to fit tachs but doesnt do great dmg with them and the abbadon which should be able to fit tachs with relative ease(i hope) but doesn't have the cap to run them for any length of time.
What it comes down to is that either laser cap usage needs to be lowered so that its a bit higher than hybrid cap usage or all/some amarr gun ships need a fixed 50% cap bonus + 2 other bounses either way lasers and amarr in general need to be closely looked and and adjusted imo.
Some good points there, but I still think the difference between the abaddon and the geddon will be best seen trough fittings. If it gets the extra medslot and out-grids the apoc then you'll get something for that extra isk.
|
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 05:07:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Testicular Testes
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Copied from the blog feedback thread:
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Ok i did some calculations :)
ABADDON:
Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2
It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns
Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second...
Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O
'nuff said tbh
Oh no, a decline of 3 cap a second. Whatever shall you do ? That's only indefinite firing with innate regeneration, or without it a measly half hour of non-stop shooting. Who can kill anything in half an hour?
Jesus people, get a grip.
Actually it is firing as long as you have cap charges. Then when you will have to revert back to normal cap regeneration you will be able to use 2-4 guns non-stop.
And of course we arent including any repairers etc on the ship - only guns. If you want to rep you need more cap - cause innate regeneration probably wont hold one large repper.
(also it is 54 or so cap recharge actually - i forgot to include reload time).
Someone calculated that T2 Tachyons take 102 cap/s. I'll do the math when I get back from work and run some capsimulations too to see what's going on.
________________________________________________
Originally by: Nidhoggur
How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
|
BirdBleed
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 05:17:00 -
[181]
I forsee lots of problems with this ship
For starters, if 8 tachyons use up like 70 cap each (think this is right?) every 5 seconds (i get 5 seconds ROF on gedon with tachs)
that 560 cap every 5 seconds o_O
It better get like 10k armor for passive tanking :P
|
Kyguard
LFC
3rd Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 05:26:00 -
[182]
I foresee nosdomis running around making fools of Abbadons.
===
God is on the side with the best arti |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 06:45:00 -
[183]
I see this ship as a real fleet ship.. prolly pack it with 8 tachy's, nice dmg and tracking stuff fitted, partial, passive tank (slap some rolled tungsten/t2 1600 on there, maybe a few t2 passive resists) and be a nice long range support ship...
Like a corpm8 said last night: the bigger the fleet match, the smaller the tank... those fights are all about dishing out the dmg...
|
Techyon
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 06:47:00 -
[184]
I forsee Abbadons with full racks of Mega Pulses, cap injector and annoyingly strong passive armor tanks tearing **** to shreds before it does the same to them.
Tbh I think the Abaddon looks like a great ship especially with some creativity.. we'll see.
|
Stephar
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 06:51:00 -
[185]
Let's say the Abaddon had a +5% ROF bonus to ALL turrets. Basically, you get to pick between hybrids/projectiles/lasers. Would you folks still fit it with lasers?
|
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 06:53:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Techyon
I forsee Abbadons with full racks of Mega Pulses, cap injector and annoyingly strong passive armor tanks tearing **** to shreds before it does the same to them.
Tbh I think the Abaddon looks like a great ship especially with some creativity.. we'll see.
I forsee them with amazing active tanks and autocannons hell this might be the first ship that can run a triple rep setup depending on how strong the cap is.
|
Linavin
Mercurialis Inc.
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 07:03:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Stephar
Let's say the Abaddon had a +5% ROF bonus to ALL turrets. Basically, you get to pick between hybrids/projectiles/lasers. Would you folks still fit it with lasers?
No
---
Originally by: Boris A
I found the rock music button!
|
Wizie
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 07:14:00 -
[188]
With a 5% dmg bonus on already heavy dmg dealing lasers, I would definitely fit lasers on this ship.
With the resistance bonus, you will be looking at a ship that can probably fit 2 eanm II and 1 dmg control, 2x reps. Leaving 3 slots (probably cpu issues) for either cap relays or couple of dmg mods and a cpu, plates would work brilliantly as well.
-----------------
Sig removed by some noob |
Knoppaz
Rens Nursing Home
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 08:09:00 -
[189]
Let's summarize..
Caldari:
- Ultra long range
- mediocre to ok damage
Galente:
- Huge damage close range
- Possibility to get in quick without draining all the cap
Minmatar:
- Good tank
- Good alpha and ok dps
Amarr:
- Huge gank with some tank or
- Huge tank with some gank
Now you want long range, huge damage, great tank and sustainability?
With this ship you get some flexibility and there is nothing that keeps you from sacrificing some damage by fitting 1 or 2 NOS. Still good damage with the possibility to keep the tank going. Sounds reasonable to me..
I like the ship 
|
Rodj Blake
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 09:00:00 -
[190]
Changing the RoF bonus to one for damage should help out with this ship's capacitor problems.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Uther Doull
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 09:07:00 -
[191]
Edited by: Uther Doull on 26/07/2006 09:07:52
i'd be much much happier if it got a dmg bonus instead of a rof bonus, it would still have trouble with the cap that would prevent it fromh doing gank and tank at the same time, but atleast it will be able to gank for longer then 30 seconds :(
eidt: doh rodj beat me to it
|
Rodj Blake
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 09:21:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
Originally by: Techyon
I forsee Abbadons with full racks of Mega Pulses, cap injector and annoyingly strong passive armor tanks tearing **** to shreds before it does the same to them.
Tbh I think the Abaddon looks like a great ship especially with some creativity.. we'll see.
I forsee them with amazing active tanks and autocannons hell this might be the first ship that can run a triple rep setup depending on how strong the cap is.
I'll be very surprised if its cap is as much as the Apoc's at BS5.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Rodj Blake
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 09:24:00 -
[193]
To add to what I've already said, it's very difficult to look at the pros and cons of any of the new ships until we see the full stats.
Presumably they will all have more CPU, grid and HP than their tier 2 siblings. The question is, how much more?
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Siobhan Ni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 09:28:00 -
[194]
Kinda dissapointed with this ship. We already have amarr ships that can gank or tank and I don't think we need another one. I was hoping for a ship with a more specialized role - perhaps drones. C'mon CCP you can do better!
|
Grimpak
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 09:38:00 -
[195]
why is everybody screaming "TEH END OF WORLD!" while you only have some stats about the ship, namely only bonuses and number of turrets?
I posted this in another thread, but I'll quote myself here:
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Originally by: Kyguard
Not a dying weapon, but the Abbadon clearly isn't helping with the situation.
It's already been shown that even under dificult conditions, an Abaddon has at least 340 seconds (5x58) of sustained fire in it. If it has a sizeable cargo hold, that'll easily become 400 seconds.
ok let's make this clear: How the hell you know it will only last for at least 340 seconds if you haven't seen the cap of the ship yet?
...maybe the ship will have one of those gigantic cap that will shadow anything bar a capital ship's cap, and able to sustain a mega tank setup or a mega gank setup, but not both.
geez... these "OMG ABBADON CAN'T HOLD HIS GUNZ FIRING CUZ THE GUNS CONSUME TOO MUCH CAP!!!!111omgeleven" posts are unfounded atm with the information that was released.
it's like saying that that lemon tree will give turnips, while in fact it is an orange tree that will give out oranges.
Like you guys are screaming "BOOST!!!" and you haven't SEEN the size of the ship's cap yet.
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
|
Etherios
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 09:42:00 -
[196]
The ship Rocks... It has the best damage output of anyother ship at 20-40k range 8 tachs + gleams = DEATH from above....
U all playing a diferent game or something? Most of the guys that dont like the ship want a solo Amarr ship. THIS ISNT A SOLO SHIP get over it. Amarr Bses and most other ships are NOT for solo. The main solo tactics are ECM/NOS heavy both can kill Amarrs easy.
AMARRS ARE NOT MEANT FOR SOLO GANKING (go for other races plz)
This will be the best Fleet ship ever.
The arma has very little cap and not that much Armor HP.. if the database is corect this monster has more HP (6800 i think) and same or more Cap than an Apoc.So the cap problem is there to make the damn ships not tooo UBER because the same guys that whine now .. will whine then to nerf it.
If the stats we know stay the same .. u will have a ship with more PG than apoc that means u can fit 8 tachs 2 RCUII 3 HSII M/Lrep and have 2 more for what ever.
Dont say this ship Sucks because u want something other than Lasers/damage, ffs we havent even seen the rest of the Stats and most of u whine already....
True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
|
Sovy Kurosei
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:26:00 -
[197]
This:
Originally by: Etherios
U all playing a diferent game or something?
Does not correspond with this:
Originally by: Etherios
This will be the best Fleet ship ever.
I'd like you to meet my friend the tier three Caldari battleship, the Rokh.
___________________
|
Mitsurugii
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:28:00 -
[198]
Judging by the various views here i hope a new skill is released.."Cruise ship management", and a hull mod that converts cargo space into passenger cabins...Then Abbadon may find a niche taking pensioners round the sights of empire space.
|
Etherios
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:29:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Etherios on 26/07/2006 10:35:55
Originally by: Sovy Kurosei
This:
Originally by: Etherios
U all playing a diferent game or something?
Does not correspond with this:
Originally by: Etherios
This will be the best Fleet ship ever.
I'd like you to meet my friend the tier three Caldari battleship, the Rokh.
8 Tachs + Aurora > ur friend anyday anytime... or u think there will be a lot os 215-240k battles? I dont because only ur friend has the range for that and the damage is ... bad :-) kthx NEXT...
Edit : let me help u my friend http://evegames.hostingbig.com see and cry j/k
True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
|
Etherios
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:33:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Mitsurugii
Judging by the various views here i hope a new skill is released.."Cruise ship management", and a hull mod that converts cargo space into passenger cabins...Then Abbadon may find a niche taking pensioners round the sights of empire space.
Its sad when ppl actually take all this soo damn hard ... Take a step back see thats its just some PIXELs and rethink.
U dont liek u dont use easy as cake ... hmm allo bubbles
True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
|
Mitsurugii
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:35:00 -
[201]
Hey im not taking it hard, quite relish the challenge of finding entertainment for pensioners.
|
DeadDuck
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:47:00 -
[202]
Edited by: DeadDuck on 26/07/2006 10:47:57
Just dont understand people already complaining about the Abadon bonuses.
I only fly Amarr... TBH I think that this ship is gonna shine in fleet battles ... this ship is for PVP, not for missions or NPCing and I'm glad it is like that
I just hope that the PG and CPU are well ballanced. BS level 5 here I go
|
Kenan Waroria
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:54:00 -
[203]
Only problem I see is that Apoc will become more or less useless when this hits the market.
I think Abaddon will be good, but at the same time render both Apoc and to some point Arma useless. Hopefully there will be more diversity between Apoc, Arma and Abaddon.
In some ways it feels as if Tier3 BS was an excuse to give Caldari an Railgun BS (Moas bigger brother) the other races got a new ship that was much like their Tier 2 ships with an twist (Abaddon more of an combo of Arma and Apoc), so there¦s not much new thinking at all in that department.
Instead of just launching new ships, think what the old ones are good for and what the new ships will contribute to the game.
-= Think negative and you¦ll get positive surprices =- |
Lucre
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:55:00 -
[204]
Long long ago, after the first laser nerf but before the laser cap reduction loving, I flew an Apoc with 4 x 425 rails and 4 x dual heavy beams. Was a nice balance - all lasers killed your cap, all rails killed your cpu but a mixture worked very nicely.
My immediate thought looking at the Baddon [Baddons, Geddons and Pocs!] is that a mixed loadout might work well. Fit 4 lasers then top up with hybrids or projectiles to taste. Cap use will be less horrific, whilst DoT should be reasonable and with a good range of damage types.
Wish it had a damage bonus instead of a RoF bonus though - we already have a RoF bonus BS, and lots of smaller ships (generally the ones that work!) manage to have a laser damage bonus. So why not this one?
|
Uther Doull
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 10:59:00 -
[205]
does anybody know if these shield/armor resist boni suffer from the stacking penalty when combined with hardners/plates?
|
DeadDuck
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 11:02:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Kenan Waroria
Only problem I see is that Apoc will become more or less useless when this hits the market.
I think Abaddon will be good, but at the same time render both Apoc and to some point Arma useless. Hopefully there will be more diversity between Apoc, Arma and Abaddon.
In some ways it feels as if Tier3 BS was an excuse to give Caldari an Railgun BS (Moas bigger brother) the other races got a new ship that was much like their Tier 2 ships with an twist (Abaddon more of an combo of Arma and Apoc), so there¦s not much new thinking at all in that department.
Instead of just launching new ships, think what the old ones are good for and what the new ships will contribute to the game.
I think you're right the only question remaining will be the price of this BS...
The Abadon seems to combine the Geddon/Apoc best properties. Even if the Consumption Bonus is gone the Capacitor will be even bigger in the Abadon then in the Apoc -in principle-.
|
Tiuwaz
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 11:29:00 -
[207]
the Abbadon looks like it could be an wesome dmg platfrom, really makes me think about crosstraining amarr now
the diversity is a bit lacking tough i agree, abaddon looks like a better arma/apoc put together into 1 ship
If this goes live then the apoc could really use a change in bonuses
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
|
Shadowsword
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 11:32:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Uther Doull
does anybody know if these shield/armor resist boni suffer from the stacking penalty when combined with hardners/plates?
They don't, because the stacking penalty depend of the number of modules, and these aren't modules...
------------------------------------------
Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward?
Shadowsword: Because of Amar philosophy: whatever happened, if they need to flee they can honestly sa |
Tassi
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 11:36:00 -
[209]
I wonder if a cap injector could run 8 dual heavy pulse t2 and 2x t2 armor reps for any reasonable amount of time
If it gets lots of CPU it could really end up as the best laser platform.
|
Perry
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 11:37:00 -
[210]
Hello ^^ Im an Amarr only specced 3+ years old Main Char ^^
First of all let me state that the only active fitted ships i have are 1) a Curse 2) a Pilgrim 3) T2 fitted Apoc for Fleet. Now i must see that i get a 8 Turret lowslot dmg/tank ship. Dear CCP i have that allready as statet above, its the Apoc. All i hoped for was that Amarr would get their lacking niche filled like Caldari. Caldari lacket the Moa/Ferox style Batlleship. Amarr lacks the Arbitrator style BS, because lets face it Amarr get their ass handed to them when engaging below 20km. So now that will stay the same, because the Abaddon in its intended fit will get nossed, ecmed, droned and missiled, blastered and ACed below 20km. Fun!
---
So i think its time to suggest a Layout for Abaddon that i was hoping for:
Name: Abaddon
Role: Close Range Solo / Gang Ship
Description: In recent Years the Imperial Navy realised that two Fleet Gank/Tank Ships with mainly EM dmg dont cut it anymore when facing the highly specialised designs of other races fleets. Therefore the Amarr Navy took what they allready had in succesfull and specialised design, the Arbitrator, and rebuild it on Battleship scale. However as Amarr technology is not that flexibel, there had to compromises in cost and overall performance. The Result is now known as the Abaddon class Battleship.
Bonus: 10% Drone Dmg/Hp
Bonus: 5% Tracking Disruptor Effectiviness
Highslots: 6 ( 4-6 Turrets, 2-4 Missiles)
Medslots: 6 (reflecting Arbitrators 4/4/4)
Lowslots: 6 (Decent Armor Tank)
Armor: 4500
Shild: 4100
Powergrid: 15.500mW (probably less)
CPU: 550tf (probably more)
Dronespace: 175m¦ (5Heavy 5Medium)
Speed: 110m¦
After the Nos/ECM nerf this ship will not be that uber, and overall more vulnerable to killing its drones then the domis 3 waves of heavies etc. It has less Overall Stats then Geddon/Apoc to reflect the fact that Amarr Engineers needed the Place for more bulky amarr advanced tech, making it more costly and fragile but flexibel and good at short range skirmishes, especially for those like me who have maxed guns and armor and want something new to play with.
Also let me state that i would welcome Minmatar get their BS Stabber and Gallente get a nice effective EW boat with Blasters.
Thanks for reading.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 12:43:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Perry
Hello ^^ Im an Amarr only specced 3+ years old Main Char ^^
First of all let me state that the only active fitted ships i have are 1) a Curse 2) a Pilgrim 3) T2 fitted Apoc for Fleet. Now i must see that i get a 8 Turret lowslot dmg/tank ship. Dear CCP i have that allready as statet above, its the Apoc. All i hoped for was that Amarr would get their lacking niche filled like Caldari. Caldari lacket the Moa/Ferox style Batlleship. Amarr lacks the Arbitrator style BS, because lets face it Amarr get their ass handed to them when engaging below 20km. So now that will stay the same, because the Abaddon in its intended fit will get nossed, ecmed, droned and missiled, blastered and ACed below 20km. Fun!
---
So i think its time to suggest a Layout for Abaddon that i was hoping for:
Name: Abaddon
Role: Close Range Solo / Gang Ship
Description: In recent Years the Imperial Navy realised that two Fleet Gank/Tank Ships with mainly EM dmg dont cut it anymore when facing the highly specialised designs of other races fleets. Therefore the Amarr Navy took what they allready had in succesfull and specialised design, the Arbitrator, and rebuild it on Battleship scale. However as Amarr technology is not that flexibel, there had to compromises in cost and overall performance. The Result is now known as the Abaddon class Battleship.
Bonus: 10% Drone Dmg/Hp
Bonus: 5% Tracking Disruptor Effectiviness
Highslots: 6 ( 4-6 Turrets, 2-4 Missiles)
Medslots: 6 (reflecting Arbitrators 4/4/4)
Lowslots: 6 (Decent Armor Tank)
Armor: 4500
Shild: 4100
Powergrid: 15.500mW (probably less)
CPU: 550tf (probably more)
Dronespace: 175m¦ (5Heavy 5Medium)
Speed: 110m¦
After the Nos/ECM nerf this ship will not be that uber, and overall more vulnerable to killing its drones then the domis 3 waves of heavies etc. It has less Overall Stats then Geddon/Apoc to reflect the fact that Amarr Engineers needed the Place for more bulky amarr advanced tech, making it more costly and fragile but flexibel and good at short range skirmishes, especially for those like me who have maxed guns and armor and want something new to play with.
Also let me state that i would welcome Minmatar get their BS Stabber and Gallente get a nice effective EW boat with Blasters.
Thanks for reading.
That ship would make the worst drone carrier in EVE bar none. If you want to fly an armor tanker with drones and less guns... try a dominix. If you want something new to play with, try another race.
I like this ship, this ship will pwn... I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn.
|
Perry
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 12:46:00 -
[212]
Says Mr Caldari who has it all now.
|
Galadiin Venyaa
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 12:48:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Dixon
I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn.
How are you planning on doing this?
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 12:55:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Perry
Says Mr Caldari who has it all now.
That's just RACISM! Yeah I'm caldari, but I usually pvp in amarr ships, and I actually have very similar amounts of skillp in both races (frig/cruiser/bs 5 in both). I love amarr, I don't think they need a droneboat.
I think the Abaddon will be a great ship and if you want a new amarr BS make them fix the Apoc, not the Abaddon. Atleast allow the abaddon to be released before you judge it.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 12:56:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa
Originally by: Dixon
I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn.
How are you planning on doing this?
With optimism and cap injectors :D
|
Lucre
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 12:57:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa
Originally by: Dixon
I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn.
How are you planning on doing this?
8 projectile turrets?
|
Galadiin Venyaa
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 12:58:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa
Originally by: Dixon
I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn.
How are you planning on doing this?
With optimism and cap injectors :D
hehehehe!!! I don't even have a come back for that! :D
Cept I don't like that Amarr has to buy exploding T2 crystals AND cap injectors.
|
Perry
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 13:00:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Perry
Says Mr Caldari who has it all now.
That's just RACISM! Yeah I'm caldari, but I usually pvp in amarr ships, and I actually have very similar amounts of skillp in both races (frig/cruiser/bs 5 in both). I love amarr, I don't think they need a droneboat.
I think the Abaddon will be a great ship and if you want a new amarr BS make them fix the Apoc, not the Abaddon. Atleast allow the abaddon to be released before you judge it.
Yes i would welcome a Apoc Bonus exchange, take the Cap Bonus give the Resist Bonus. Apoc done and fine. Ah btw if you think my suggestion would suck we could give it 200m¦ Dronespace for 5 light drones more ^^ I dont want a Domi that think looks like ... in my worst Nightmares the ugly things look better. And i like to fly Amarr only. But Amarr sux, and will probably get another sux BS.
|
volly
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 13:14:00 -
[219]
Edited by: volly on 26/07/2006 13:24:26
I am very disapointed with this new Ship.
We already have a DPS BS
We already have a Tank BS
We do not another Turret Boat !
I hope its time enough to redesign this ship.
I would prefer:
a Droneship like the arbitrator
or a Missileboat like the Inquisitor.
or a EW Ship like the Cruzifier
To bring just another Fleet Damagedealer is.... just boring
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 13:16:00 -
[220]
So the Abaddon removes the Apoc and the Armageddon from fleet fights pretty much right?
Higher Alphastrike+same ROF as Armageddon (improved armageddon for fleet fights).
Higher resists+Armor+Shield+ROF as the Apocalypse (improved Apocalypse).
We now have a 3rd fleet ship that is better than our previous fleet ships. I'm aware the Amarr Navy's ideology is mainly "big gangs" but getting annnother fleet ship is a bit boring. You will not see Armageddon's being used as much anymore because the Abaddon is just an improved Armageddon.
As far as the Abaddon vs Apocalypse comparison - it really depends on the base recharge rate and base cap size of the Abaddon to determine if it will be able to sustain a tank just like the Apocalypse without gimping its damage output in comparison. If it CAN sustain a tank while doing the same damage as an Apocalypse then there is no reason to buy the Apocalypse...as it will not be bringing the "apocalypse" to any solar system near you. Just take mr. locust face (Abaddon) into battle because he's worse than the "armageddon" or even the "apocalypse" which are supposed to be world catastrophes =P
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 14:01:00 -
[221]
Tachyons = 102 cap use per second
1 Cap injector = 55 cap per second
Abba + Tachys = 2 cap injectors?
As far as tanking, what lasers are you going to fit and be able to tank with the Abba? Mediums?
The main problem is the lack of diversity for Amarr. *ESPECIALLY* in light of the other races getting ships that fill in holes in thier line up.
Caldari = Missile BS, EW BS, Turret BS
Gallente = Blasterboat, Sniping boat, Droneboat
Matari = Mixed weapon BS, Armor tanking bs, Shield tanking bs.
Amarr = Rof BS, Capacitor "tanking" bs, rof & tanking BS.
Honestly, isn't there anything better for us? Especailly considering that the Abbadon was a fallen angel given dominion over the hordes of demonic scorpion/locusts of the Abyss? Seems like a drone boat to me.
And tbh we really could have used a missile bs or a drone bs more than anything at this point.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
|
Stephar
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 14:08:00 -
[222]
Oddly enough, given current game mechanics, this ship would make an ideal stabbed ganker. Warp in, burn through all your cap charges, let enemy pound against your +25% resist armor. Warp out (8 stabs ftw). You could also put a couple of plates on it if you want to go with less stabs.
Not really interested in that kind of gaming, but that's what this ship seems primed for. It's overpowered when you have charges, and completely gimped when you don't.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 14:13:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Nyxus
Tachyons = 102 cap use per second
1 Cap injector = 55 cap per second
Abba + Tachys = 2 cap injectors?
As far as tanking, what lasers are you going to fit and be able to tank with the Abba? Mediums?
The main problem is the lack of diversity for Amarr. *ESPECIALLY* in light of the other races getting ships that fill in holes in thier line up.
Caldari = Missile BS, EW BS, Turret BS
Gallente = Blasterboat, Sniping boat, Droneboat
Matari = Mixed weapon BS, Armor tanking bs, Shield tanking bs.
Amarr = Rof BS, Capacitor "tanking" bs, rof & tanking BS.
Honestly, isn't there anything better for us? Especailly considering that the Abbadon was a fallen angel given dominion over the hordes of demonic scorpion/locusts of the Abyss? Seems like a drone boat to me.
And tbh we really could have used a missile bs or a drone bs more than anything at this point.
Nyxus
I actually agree that Amarr need a new type of BS. But I think, in light of the Apoc's suckage, that the Apoc should get this change. None of us has had any experience with the Abaddon, and I really like the idea behind the Abaddon.
|
Aion Amarra
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 14:41:00 -
[224]
Hrm. Personally I'd kill to see the Abaddon as a Laser/Tank heavy Droneship, with not enough mids to make a reasonable EM platform (to not tread on Domi territory, and leaving Nos out of the picture for now) even if that slightly strays away from the Arbitrators setup.
Alternatively an Armotanking Missile BS.
Caldari currently have the only real BS class missile ship. The game also really lacks armortanking missile ships. Come on. Caldari and Amarr are allied. There's gotta be some tech exchange for the newest line of battleships.
A combination of both, an Amarr Drone BS that Armortanks and spews missiles would be liquid sex, though I have no idea how the bonuses would look like on this one then.
----
Dixon raises a very valid point in his post above this one, though. The only reason I dislike the Abaddon, is that it treads on both Apoc and Geddon territory, either tanking better than the one, or ganking better than the other (and still being able to fit a silly passivetank).
My first thought of course instantly was to change the Abaddon, and not one of the existing ships. If we had the Apoc changed to a drone or a missile BS (even though it's model would suck for that role), or give it the current Abaddon stats, and give the Abaddon one of the roles above, things would be different.
The thought of a heavily cap booster reliant Amarr BS, working similiar to a Blasterthron in that respect, does excite me a little.
________
Capitalization is the difference between "I helped my uncle Jack off his horse." and "I helped my uncle jack off his horse."
Help the horses, make proper use of that shift button. |
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 14:46:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Nyxus
Tachyons = 102 cap use per second
1 Cap injector = 55 cap per second
Abba + Tachys = 2 cap injectors?
As far as tanking, what lasers are you going to fit and be able to tank with the Abba? Mediums?
The main problem is the lack of diversity for Amarr. *ESPECIALLY* in light of the other races getting ships that fill in holes in thier line up.
Caldari = Missile BS, EW BS, Turret BS
Gallente = Blasterboat, Sniping boat, Droneboat
Matari = Mixed weapon BS, Armor tanking bs, Shield tanking bs.
Amarr = Rof BS, Capacitor "tanking" bs, rof & tanking BS.
Honestly, isn't there anything better for us? Especailly considering that the Abbadon was a fallen angel given dominion over the hordes of demonic scorpion/locusts of the Abyss? Seems like a drone boat to me.
And tbh we really could have used a missile bs or a drone bs more than anything at this point.
Nyxus
Well written brother.
|
Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 15:06:00 -
[226]
It's actually only 84.9 cap/s on the full rack of Tachyons - you need to account for Controlled Bursts V. Still more than double the cap consumption of the next highest(Geddon at 37/s). In a realistic sniping situation(moving battleship at or near your optimal) it does about 15% more damage than an equally fitted Armageddon, but will assumedly have much better survivability with the increased cap/grid that comes with the tier 3 tag. As much as I will dislike running dry and being unable to fight, I think that the ship will be interesting and certainly worthwhile in a fleet setting. Big alpha strike, good short-term sustained DPS, and then runs dry and needs to warp.
It's also possible that the ship is being balanced around one of the new rigging modifiers, and that it would have been overpowered without them. I'm sure Tux has read this(and the other threads) and has seen the concerns that people have regarding the ship. Now we just get to wait and see.
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 15:10:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Wodin Drukvik
It's actually only 84.9 cap/s on the full rack of Tachyons - you need to account for Controlled Bursts V Quote:
102 or so cap/s included controlled burst lvl5 and all rate of fire skills maxed :)
|
Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 15:30:00 -
[228]
Doh, we're both right. Mine was before rolling in Heatsinks. 
|
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 15:31:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Ather Ialeas on 26/07/2006 15:33:49
Btw I just made a imaginary fit for the preliminary stats for Abaddon (the very old ones from last springtime or maybe even earlier) and noticed that lasers are a ***** to fit on Abaddon but not too hard just like they should be.
What really troubled me was that I could fit the following and run it 23/7 with capacitor sustaining itself at about 45%:
Highs: Any projectile weaponry including 8*800mm T2 AC:s and 1400mm T2 projectiles.
Meds: Two Eutectic I Capacitor Rechargers (leaving two midslots free)
Lows: 2* EANMII, 2* expl T2 hardener, 1* EM T2 hardener, 1* therm T2 hardener, Large Armor Repairer II
This gives total armor resists of 89.43% EM, 88.97% exp, 80.19% kin, 82.83% therm. DPS won't be the highest possible but it's still a lot better than draining yourself with lasers.
So yea, like I said in page one (or at least in some Abaddon thread's page one), "Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into." With lasers Abaddon sucks, with projectiles it's almost a pwnmobile. Eugh.
EDIT: Oh yes, this is made with a "lvl5 everything" type character template for QuickFit. If someone wants it I'll upload it to eve-files.com upon request.
________________________________________________
Originally by: Nidhoggur
How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
|
Kenan Waroria
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 15:33:00 -
[230]
Hmm, I¦m not sure how high you want to scram for the ship to be an BS version of Arbitrator, CCP could give you an BS version of Inquisitor, Tormentor () or Augoror.
I wouldn¦t mind the Apoc become an BS sized Tormentor (8 turrets and 20%mining bonus/lvl). But I don¦t think anyone would want an BS version of Inquisitor or Augoror..
-= Think negative and you¦ll get positive surprices =- |
Etherios
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 15:53:00 -
[231]
What dont u all understand about the Amarr really?
I mean why ppl still ask for solo/gang Amarr bs. Close range for Amarr IS BAD why dont u all understand that. Solo/close range = DEATH for all Amarr BS ... we dont have enuf Med slots and we depend on cap too damn much. There is no Gankedon any more and there will never be any Laser fitted Amarr bs that can be good at close range. Only if u use arties or if all this whine chance lasers (dought it).
The guys that ask for Droneships WTF is wrong with u? When was amarr good at that and how can u be good at that without getting a ship with drone space and drone bonus? (AKA new Amarr version of Dominix)
I dont think the AB will kill the Armas and the Apocs.Arma is still the cheepest and best close range bs(because we dont know agility and speed yet and i think Arma will be lot better in that area) Apoc is still the best NPC/tank in the game (armor tanking). So the AB just gives a 3rd choice to have a VERY HARD hitting bs with small tank(passive mostly). We dont know the rest stats so we cant say about tanking. U need cap to tank resist isnt enuf.
P.S. Why ppl keep asking for other races ships/playstyle? Just go play that race... or u all dont want to spend SP for that and just want ccp to do it the easy way.
True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
|
Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:02:00 -
[232]
Etherios, I think many people are asking for a droneboat because they do use drones in their daily Amarr pvp, either in a Curse/Pilgrim or an Arbitrator. It's also very effective, so you see people asking for a battleship-sized version of the ship that they enjoy flying.
I suspect another reason people ask for a droneboat is because they take a little more finesse to fly(at least Arbies do. ).
|
Shadowsword
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:12:00 -
[233]
I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship.
The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage:
- 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km
- 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable.
The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO.
------------------------------------------
Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward?
Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy. |
Epsilon 1
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:16:00 -
[234]
Right, now if you have amarr bs 5 and plan on flying the allmighty abaddon, delete your character, start a new one and train amarr bs to lvl3
Think for a second: 8 turrets, rof bonus, no bonus to large energy turret capacitor use. RETARDED
I was wrong abaddon wasn't meant to be a 2nd apoc, it meant to be a piece of flying ****.
No more comments.
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
|
Agent2 Holtze
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:22:00 -
[235]
It would be really usefull if people actually started playing this game instead of just whining on the forums...
I'm looking forward to fly this monster. And believe me its gonna hurt!
Posting and you!
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:29:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Agent2 Holtze
It would be really usefull if people actually started playing this game instead of just whining on the forums...
I'm looking forward to fly this monster. And believe me its gonna hurt!
you win the thread... abaddon will rock
|
Etherios
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:29:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Etherios on 26/07/2006 16:30:19
Epsilon 1 thank u for ur constractive Opinion i hope i wont see u in one anytime soon
Wodin Drukvik : well man u will still have the minus of using lasers. Also very few med slots (Amarr style). So u will have a very mediocre ship.
Ather Ialeas: We big boys as u said dont use Apocs or the AB now while going solo or small gangs. But personally i always use the arma... and i think now the AB. If u dont like use a stabbed Vagapond way better...
Well most of u here just say it sux and the best think to do is to use other guns than lasers.... many use to say the same for Apocs also. So i guess ppl dont change...
True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
|
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:31:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 16:32:09
Originally by: Agent2 Holtze
It would be really usefull if people actually started playing this game instead of just whining on the forums...
I'm looking forward to fly this monster. And believe me its gonna hurt!
TBH the Abba's viability will come down to 2 stats that are not released yet.
1) Drone bay size in comparison to the Geddon
If it isn't comparable in size no one will fly the Abba over the Geddon. That extra turret is only like 14% more dps with 50% more cap use, and ogre II's have a really nice damage output combined with geddon firepower. If the Ogre's bring the dps any closer than 14%, and you can tank with the geddon better due to cap, why would you fly the Abba?
2) If the capacitor size isn't any bigger than the apoc w/BS lvl 5, even 2 cap injectors won't make it even semi sustainable in the short term even for guns. Nos will make it even more vulnerable. This thing better have almost capital ship sized capacitor.
My main problem is that it's not any *different* than our other 2 ships. Why we can't get a drone boat or a 8 missile bay ships I will never know. The other ships all provide something different/what was missing to thier respective races. Hyperion = blaster, Rokh = turret sniper, Maelstrom = 8 gun shield tanker.
Abba = Apoc and Geddon rolled into 1. Nothing new or different, with possible severe cap issues forcing docking for 'ammo' worse than any other ship ever created. Think about how many charges you can put in your cargo hold. Imagine needing 2 cap injectors running all the time *JUST* to shoot.
Think about needing an alt in a bestower following you around with Cap 800 charges. Cuz thats what you would need. Looking at the normal size of amarr cargo bays you will be able to carry about 2 minutes worth of firing before you have to go get more charges.
Nyxus
Abba will actually need 128% of the cap of the Geddon. Thanks Aramendel. FFS that is depressing.
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
|
Flash Landsraad
Nexus Legion
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:35:00 -
[239]
The ROF bonus just makes me sad tbh, I was hoping for a resist bonus and something like a tracking disruptor effectiveness or drone bonus .
Amarr get screwed again, go figure...
Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K
Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash |
Agent2 Holtze
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:43:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Nyxus
Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 16:32:09
Originally by: Agent2 Holtze
It would be really usefull if people actually started playing this game instead of just whining on the forums...
I'm looking forward to fly this monster. And believe me its gonna hurt!
TBH the Abba's viability will come down to 2 stats that are not released yet.
1) Drone bay size in comparison to the Geddon
If it isn't comparable in size no one will fly the Abba over the Geddon. That extra turret is only like 14% more dps with 50% more cap use, and ogre II's have a really nice damage output combined with geddon firepower. If the Ogre's bring the dps any closer than 14%, and you can tank with the geddon better due to cap, why would you fly the Abba?
2) If the capacitor size isn't any bigger than the apoc w/BS lvl 5, even 2 cap injectors won't make it even semi sustainable in the short term even for guns. Nos will make it even more vulnerable. This thing better have almost capital ship sized capacitor.
My main problem is that it's not any *different* than our other 2 ships. Why we can't get a drone boat or a 8 missile bay ships I will never know. The other ships all provide something different/what was missing to thier respective races. Hyperion = blaster, Rokh = turret sniper, Maelstrom = 8 gun shield tanker.
Abba = Apoc and Geddon rolled into 1. Nothing new or different, with possible severe cap issues forcing docking for 'ammo' worse than any other ship ever created. Think about how many charges you can put in your cargo hold. Imagine needing 2 cap injectors running all the time *JUST* to shoot.
Think about needing an alt in a bestower following you around with Cap 800 charges. Cuz thats what you would need. Looking at the normal size of amarr cargo bays you will be able to carry about 2 minutes worth of firing before you have to go get more charges.
Nyxus
Abba will actually need 128% of the cap of the Geddon. Thanks Aramendel. FFS that is depressing.
It's called an Abaddon
And, well, go play with the setups, i can't say if it's going to be good ar bad for PvE, because i don't do that, but for PvP it's going to be good!
And i agree, it would have been awesome with a semi-drone boat for the amarr.
Posting and you!
|
Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:45:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Etherios
Wodin Drukvik : well man u will still have the minus of using lasers. Also very few med slots (Amarr style). So u will have a very mediocre ship.
Yeah, I think most of the people lobbying for that ship wanted something along the lines of a 6/5/7 slot layout with a 275ish drone bay and the Arbitrator bonus set(10% drone hp/shields/damage per level, 5% tracking disruptor effectiveness). Even with the Nos changes that are coming in Kali, I suspect we still won't see droneboats using more than one or two real weapons(though I could and frequently have been very wrong).
Certainly I'd never use the Abaddon in its current form as a drone carrier. It will be a very interesting ship to fly, and we'll have to see how things shake out.
|
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:46:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Agent2 Holtze
It's called an Abaddon
I think people are calling it ABBAdon because Tux said that it has driven some devs nuts at the office and as such those people want to express their distrust towards Tuxford's balancing skills by using the improper name.
________________________________________________
Originally by: Nidhoggur
How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
|
Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 16:49:00 -
[243]
The problem is that not every expectation will be met, and with about 20 - 21 slots and countless bonusses to be given, one could design thousands of ships.
Now, I for one believe that the people that actually make this will probaly have thought and discussed about it in allot more ways then we on the forums.
Personally I am really happy it will be this 8 gun setup and not some droneship, don't we have carriers for that anyway!?
/so said Lo3d3R ganker of noobs, eater of bearmeat products.
___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
volly
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 18:14:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Etherios
P.S. Why ppl keep asking for other races ships/playstyle? Just go play that race... or u all dont want to spend SP for that and just want ccp to do it the easy way.
You mean Caldari ?
|
Panta Rei
Millennium
E.R.A
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 18:41:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Shadowsword
I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship.
The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage:
- 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km
- 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable.
The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO.
Actually, that's not such a bad idea, when you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction.
|
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 19:19:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Lo3d3R
Now, I for one believe that the people that actually make this will probaly have thought and discussed about it in allot more ways then we on the forums.
Sometimes.....it doesnt seam like it.
|
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 19:26:00 -
[247]
Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 19:27:02
Originally by: Panta Rei
Originally by: Shadowsword
I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship.
The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage:
- 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km
- 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable.
The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO.
Actually, that's not such a bad idea, when you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction.
If the rof counted towards missiles AND lasers. Maybe. Only if it was 8 turrets/6 launchers though.
I also call it the Abba because that is what I will be playing over TS/Ventrilo every time I fly it. It will be "Mama Mia".
And honestly, I feel like Amarr are the little blonde and Caldari is Joan. OMG, plz don't hit me again!!!!
I swear that should be the theme song/movie for all Amarr characters.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 19:29:00 -
[248]
How about we just stop trying to re-invent amarr. The race is guns and armor. That's why I trained for their ships, that's why I like 'em. Missiles and drones are for the weak.
If the RoF will cause the Abaddon to consume to much cap (wich I don't think will actually happen) then the devs can always change it to a damage bonus. Then you'd have the same DPS but a little less cap usage.
|
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 19:40:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Dixon
How about we just stop trying to re-invent amarr. The race is guns and armor. That's why I trained for their ships, that's why I like 'em. Missiles and drones are for the weak.
If the RoF will cause the Abaddon to consume to much cap (wich I don't think will actually happen) then the devs can always change it to a damage bonus. Then you'd have the same DPS but a little less cap usage.
It needs to be changed because as it stands you will need *2* cap injectors just to fire tachyons. Assuming a full cargo of cap 800s that means you will have about 2 minutes of total firing before you have to dock for "ammo". I don't have to explain how much that will suck.
And TBH Amarr have a LOT of drone ships. Second only to Gallente. And we have 2 "missile specialist" ships. So it's not 're-inventing' Amarr as it is 'trying to utilize all that Amarr actually is'.
Actually the Rokh gets 8 turrets and Caldari are the "Missile" race. Amarr are the "turret" race, yet lots of other racial ships get 8 turrets. Why can't the Abba be an 8 turret/8 missile launcher boat.
That would be sectsy.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
|
Exiled One
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 20:09:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12
Controlled burst lvl5
megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq
CAP consumption : 69.03 / second
only firing your guns.
|
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 20:26:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Nyxus
Originally by: Dixon
How about we just stop trying to re-invent amarr. The race is guns and armor. That's why I trained for their ships, that's why I like 'em. Missiles and drones are for the weak.
If the RoF will cause the Abaddon to consume to much cap (wich I don't think will actually happen) then the devs can always change it to a damage bonus. Then you'd have the same DPS but a little less cap usage.
It needs to be changed because as it stands you will need *2* cap injectors just to fire tachyons. Assuming a full cargo of cap 800s that means you will have about 2 minutes of total firing before you have to dock for "ammo". I don't have to explain how much that will suck.
And TBH Amarr have a LOT of drone ships. Second only to Gallente. And we have 2 "missile specialist" ships. So it's not 're-inventing' Amarr as it is 'trying to utilize all that Amarr actually is'.
Actually the Rokh gets 8 turrets and Caldari are the "Missile" race. Amarr are the "turret" race, yet lots of other racial ships get 8 turrets. Why can't the Abba be an 8 turret/8 missile launcher boat.
That would be sectsy.
Nyxus
|
Shadowsword
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 20:39:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Nyxus
Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 19:27:02
Originally by: Panta Rei
Originally by: Shadowsword
I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship.
The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage:
- 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km
- 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable.
The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO.
Actually, that's not such a bad idea, when you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction.
If the rof counted towards missiles AND lasers. Maybe. Only if it was 8 turrets/6 launchers though.
No, that would overpower the ship for sure. Since the Abaddon will be one of the three best tankers, with the Rokh and the Maelstrom, it need to do less DPS than most BS when in a low-cap usage, tanking setup. The way to acheive less DPS, while still having a semi-decent amount of it, is done by a/ a RoF bonus that would then apply only to 4 high slots b/damage mods affecting only one half of the weapons.
Think about the Typhoon: dual bonus, good DPS. Now replace the typhoon projectile weapons by laser weapons, which tend to do more DPS, and add that nice tanking bonus => Grossly overpowered ship. That's what need to be avoided.
As for 6 launchers hardpoints, that would make a Raven with a tanking bonus. Also overpowered. No thanks
------------------------------------------
Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward?
Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy. |
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 23:13:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Nyxus
Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 19:27:02
Originally by: Panta Rei
Originally by: Shadowsword
I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship.
The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage:
- 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km
- 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable.
The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO.
Actually, that's not such a bad idea, when you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction.
If the rof counted towards missiles AND lasers. Maybe. Only if it was 8 turrets/6 launchers though.
No, that would overpower the ship for sure. Since the Abaddon will be one of the three best tankers, with the Rokh and the Maelstrom, it need to do less DPS than most BS when in a low-cap usage, tanking setup. The way to acheive less DPS, while still having a semi-decent amount of it, is done by a/ a RoF bonus that would then apply only to 4 high slots b/damage mods affecting only one half of the weapons.
Think about the Typhoon: dual bonus, good DPS. Now replace the typhoon projectile weapons by laser weapons, which tend to do more DPS, and add that nice tanking bonus => Grossly overpowered ship. That's what need to be avoided.
As for 6 launchers hardpoints, that would make a Raven with a tanking bonus. Also overpowered. No thanks
except the abbadon is only able to tank well if you turn off the guns. If this ship has some ungodly amount of cap to compensate for its bonus i forsee people running projtiles and a triple rep tank.
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 00:09:00 -
[254]
It would be cool if we could stick with the locust theme...
+2 to light drones capable of being launched per level.
Weeee! 15 light drones! Locusts! (75 m3 drone bay)
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Nemain
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 00:17:00 -
[255]
While I do like the drone idea, like already metioned that would kind of make the domi pointless. Missiles on the other hand would still give it that swarm of stinging locust effect beffiting it's name, well to a certain degree anyway. Not to mention adding that bit of much need variety to the stagnent pool that is Amarr ship design. Tho if a gun ship it must be, I still tink make it a bs sized executioner or zealot, fast and agile by bs standards. Just like the executioner got given the description claiming it was a counter to the fast min frigs, make this one a counter to the fast min BS.
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 00:19:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Nemain
While I do like the drone idea, like already metioned that would kind of make the domi pointless. Missiles on the other hand would still give it that swarm of stinging locust effect beffiting it's name, well to a certain degree anyway. Not to mention adding that bit of much need variety to the stagnent pool that is Amarr ship design. Tho if a gun ship it must be, I still tink make it a bs sized executioner or zealot, fast and agile by bs standards. Just like the executioner got given the description claiming it was a counter to the fast min frigs, make this one a counter to the fast min BS.
Would 15 light drones overpower 5 heavy or 5 medium drones though? Speaking of a bonus for ONLY combat based light drones (not utility or ewar or anything like that, just the damage dealing ones).
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Grimpak
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 00:21:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Exiled One
Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12
Controlled burst lvl5
megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq
CAP consumption : 69.03 / second
only firing your guns.
aye so you grabed some tachyons, shoveled them in a megathron and you start to shoot them to see how much cap they use.
...now I say this (for the nth time), what does that prove when you don't know how much cap will the abbadon have? that tachyons empty the mega's cap more faster than I eat a twinkie?
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
|
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 01:49:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Exiled One
Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12
Controlled burst lvl5
megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq
CAP consumption : 69.03 / second
only firing your guns.
aye so you grabed some tachyons, shoveled them in a megathron and you start to shoot them to see how much cap they use.
...now I say this (for the nth time), what does that prove when you don't know how much cap will the abbadon have? that tachyons empty the mega's cap more faster than I eat a twinkie?
Well....if you look at the largest cap ship in the game, the Apoc, with BS lvl 5 and max skills has 7200 cap.
If the Abaddon has the same amount of cap as the battleship with a bonus to cap and has bs at level 5 that would mean that the Aba can shoot it's guns for 70 seconds best case scenario. Tbh it can't have more cap than the Apoc, as that renders the Apoc pretty useless with it's bonus (well, more useless than it already is).
Realistically the Abaddon will have the same base as the Apoc, 4800. With skills thats 6000 cap. If we accept this as reasonable (and it is) it would mean that the Abaddon will ba able to fire it's lasers *WITH MAX SKILLS* for 58 seconds. ONLY firing its weapons. No active hardners, repping, or sensor boosters. 2 heavy cap injectors firing continuously at the same time provide 6400 cap in the first minute. The guns alone require 6120 cap per minute.
God help you though when the 2 cap injectors have to reload after the first minute.
Grimpak we can't know for sure what the cap on the Abaddon will be. We can make a logical assumption that it is not more than the cap specialist ship, and not less than geddon. It makes the most sense that it would equal the base amount on the apoc.
And honestly that's just not enough.
Tux says that it "can gank or tank - but not both". I wish he would explain to me how this ship can tank and fire any weapons besides projectiles. At least if it was 8 turrets/ 8 missiles it could mount a decent tank and fire weapons. It can't fire any Amarr bs sized weapon other than a rack of missiles.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
|
Nemain
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 02:05:00 -
[259]
Yep, 8/4/8, 8 turrets, 6 launchers with +5 Missile rof and +5% armour resists would be very nice indeed. Kind of a shorter range armour tanked raven. That would do the trick, tho I could see the new 40+ page complaint thread being why should amarr train missiles as well to use their tier 3 BS. Screw them tho, gimme my missile spamming armour tank bs and I love u long time
|
Exiled One
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 02:16:00 -
[260]
OMGOMG THIS JUST IN: GIVE THE ABBADON 6 MISSILE LAUNCHERS AND CHANGE THE TURRET ROF TO MISSILE ROF BBQ BECAUSE IF IT WILL HAVE THE ROF AND NO CAP REDUCTION BONUS THEN YOU CAN GO **** YOURSELVES - OTHERWISE THE SHIP WILL BE USELESS.
BBQ
|
Woopie
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 02:58:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Exiled One
Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12
Controlled burst lvl5
megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq
CAP consumption : 69.03 / second
only firing your guns.
Except Abbadon has ROF bonus and 8 turrets... why not just do the correct math.
Rof bonuses:
0.75 (Abbadon, BS V)
0.80 (Rapid Fire V)
0.895 (1st - Heat Sink)
0.90 (Gunnary V)
0.9086 (2nd - Heat Sink)
0.94 - (3rd - Heat Sink)
Total rof bonus: 0.75*0.80*0.895*0.90*0.9086*0.94 => 0.4123
Cap bonuses:
0.75 (Controlled Burst V)
Convert to geddon:7/8*.5 => 0.4375 (one less turret, 50% cap bonus)
Convert to apoc: .75*.5 => 0.375 (no ROF bonus, 50% cap bonus)
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II (CAP 25 per/shot - ROF 6.08 sec)
8*25*0.75/6.08/0.4123 => 59.84 cap/sec
(26.18 cap/sec geddon or 22.44 cap/sec apoc)
Mega Pulse Laser II (CAP 40 per/shot - ROF 7.88 sec)
8*40*0.75/7.88/0.4123 => 73.87 cap/sec
(32.32 cap/sec geddon or 27.70 cap/sec apoc)
Dual Heavy Beam Laser II (CAP 35 per/shot - ROF 7.20 sec)
8*35*0.75/7.20/0.4123 => 70.74 cap/sec
(30.95 cap/sec geddon or 26.53 cap/sec apoc)
Mega Beam Laser II (CAP 65 per/shot - ROF 9.00 sec)
8*65*0.75/9.00/0.4123 => 105.10 cap/sec
(45.98 cap/sec geddon or 39.41 cap/sec apoc)
Tachyon Beam Laser II (CAP 95 per/shot - ROF 12.50 sec)
8*95*0.75/12.50/0.4123 => 110.60 cap/sec
(48.39 cap/sec geddon or 41.47 cap/sec apoc)
There, Max skilled Abbadon/Geddon/Apoc with 3x Heat Sink II
|
Woopie
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 03:09:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Woopie on 27/07/2006 03:10:02
Originally by: Woopie
... skip ...
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II (CAP 25 per/shot - ROF 6.08 sec)
8*25*0.75/6.08/0.4123 => 59.84 cap/sec
(26.18 cap/sec geddon or 22.44 cap/sec apoc)
Mega Pulse Laser II (CAP 40 per/shot - ROF 7.88 sec)
8*40*0.75/7.88/0.4123 => 73.87 cap/sec
(32.32 cap/sec geddon or 27.70 cap/sec apoc)
Dual Heavy Beam Laser II (CAP 35 per/shot - ROF 7.20 sec)
8*35*0.75/7.20/0.4123 => 70.74 cap/sec
(30.95 cap/sec geddon or 26.53 cap/sec apoc)
Mega Beam Laser II (CAP 65 per/shot - ROF 9.00 sec)
8*65*0.75/9.00/0.4123 => 105.10 cap/sec
(45.98 cap/sec geddon or 39.41 cap/sec apoc)
Tachyon Beam Laser II (CAP 95 per/shot - ROF 12.50 sec)
8*95*0.75/12.50/0.4123 => 110.60 cap/sec
(48.39 cap/sec geddon or 41.47 cap/sec apoc)
There, Max skilled Abbadon/Geddon/Apoc with 3x Heat Sink II
Just to put some perceptive on those numbers..
Dual Large Rep II Tank: 2*400/15/.75 => 71.11 cap/sec
X-Large Shield II Tank: 400*0.9/5 => 72 cap/sec
If you just give up dual rep tank then Abbadon is easily usable, just like they said.
Well maybe not with Tachyons/Mega Beams without extra stuff, but everything else, imo.
|
Kyguard
LFC
3rd Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 03:23:00 -
[263]
I don't see why everyone is calling the Abbadon some great tanker.
It will tank just as well as the Rokh and Maelstrom while being half as useful as the other two. Rokh will prob able to setup a passive shield tank and fire its gun for nigh on forever while the Maelstrom requires no cap to fire its guns.
And the abbadon..
Same tank as the Rokh and Maelstrom, but then it turns on its guns.. what will happen? Tank fail within tens of seconds and there goes the awesome tank. Even better, put even one nos or a couple and this thing will drop faster than a dress on prom night. Simply put, the Abbadon is the apoc and the geddon put together. The useless "tank like any other BS, but deal no dmg" and the generic geddon.
I will apologize outright to Tux and the dev team if there is something significant that we are missing to this ship aka the stats, however based on logical thinking on how it will be, I've deducted this rant.
===
God is on the side with the best arti |
Woopie
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 03:25:00 -
[264]
For example typical Dual Heavy Pulse II / Dual Rep geddon uses...
26.18+72+minor_stuff = 98.18 cap/sec
Mega Pulse II / Single Rep + Plate abbadon uses
73.87+36+minor_stuff = 109.87 cap/sec
It's not that much more cap use for (8*3.6/7.88)/(7*2.4/6.08) => 1.323 => 32% more (gun) damage and 25% extra resists + plate to make up for the lost rep.
|
Woopie
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 03:34:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Kyguard
I don't see why everyone is calling the Abbadon some great tanker.
It will tank just as well as the Rokh and Maelstrom while being half as useful as the other two. Rokh will prob able to setup a passive shield tank and fire its gun for nigh on forever while the Maelstrom requires no cap to fire its guns.
And the abbadon..
Same tank as the Rokh and Maelstrom, but then it turns on its guns.. what will happen? Tank fail within tens of seconds and there goes the awesome tank. Even better, put even one nos or a couple and this thing will drop faster than a dress on prom night. Simply put, the Abbadon is the apoc and the geddon put together. The useless "tank like any other BS, but deal no dmg" and the generic geddon.
I will apologize outright to Tux and the dev team if there is something significant that we are missing to this ship aka the stats, however based on logical thinking on how it will be, I've deducted this rant.
It will never be a (long term/pure) tanker that's just stupid, but rather a pretty good ganker that can absorb fair share of damage. Something that has always been the main weakness of the geddon when it goes all out gank.
Again way too many stats are missing to say it's a uber ship yet, but I think it's safe to say that it has good potential. Unfortunately I also fear that it will have some huge flaw in the final stats other than the lack of cap usage bonus to be any more useful than the geddon currently is.
|
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 03:40:00 -
[266]
Just thought I would add:
Geddon 7x Mega Pulse II + 3 Heatsink II + Conflag = 40.38 cap/sec
Abbadon 8x Mega Pulse II + 3 Heatsink II + Conflag = 92.31 cap/sec
The difference in cap drain is enough to feed a LAR II + MAR II on the Geddon. If the Abbadon isn't using Conflag due to cap issues, it'll be outdamaged by the Geddon.
|
Woopie
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 04:00:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Toaster Oven
Just thought I would add:
Geddon 7x Mega Pulse II + 3 Heatsink II + Conflag = 40.38 cap/sec
+ LAR + MAR = 94.38 cap/sec
Abbadon 8x Mega Pulse II + 3 Heatsink II + Conflag = 92.31 cap/sec
The difference in cap drain is enough to feed a LAR II + MAR II on the Geddon. If the Abbadon isn't using Conflag due to cap issues, it'll be outdamaged by the Geddon.
Granted, but fitting a geddon like that means the injector doesn't cut it without grid mods* or even co-proc?. Plus MAR / LAR combo isn't worth it in PvP, better of using a plate instead of MAR.
* 16500*1.25-7*2750*.9-2300-173-1750 => -923 grid
|
Toaster Oven
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 04:28:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Woopie
Granted, but fitting a geddon like that means the injector doesn't cut it without grid mods* or even co-proc?. Plus MAR / LAR combo isn't worth it in PvP, better of using a plate instead of MAR.
* 16500*1.25-7*2750*.9-2300-173-1750 => -923 grid
It's pointless comparing fittings. To make it even you'd need to fit 2 cap injectors to an Abbadon, whose CPU/PG we know nothing about to even up the cap deficit. But seeing as most Geddon pilots fit 1600mm plates and a MAR II, it's hardly worth wasting time on. Just wanted to point out that a gank Abbadon without Conflag crystals is inferior to a Geddon.
|
TribalBleb
Turbulent
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 04:31:00 -
[269]
ROF bonus should be changed to a damage bonus imo, unless its gonna have a massive uber leet wtfpwnage cap
 |
Imperial Coercion
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 05:19:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Woopie
Well maybe not with Tachyons/Mega Beams
No ship is. Its redicilous.
|
Redeol
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 05:23:00 -
[271]
I'm worried about the cap usage
_________________________
spitfires are sad planes. |
Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 06:59:00 -
[272]
Add it a 5% optimal and it will be a perfect lowskill sniper BS able to fly in one fleet with Rokhs :)
Noone will ever say another word of whining about it then :)
|
Etherios
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 07:20:00 -
[273]
So to understand what ppl say is that OMG we cant Dual Lrep and fire the guns at the same time OMG OMG.
WHICH Amarr ship can do that ffs?
The Arma NO way... (personally i will never use Dual lasers too weak)
The Apoc Not enuf fitting to do that....( And it needs Cap inj also)
The Abaddon No ...
Isnt this logical Amarr are heavy Cap users but look at this set up:
8 Tachs II/2 Sensor boost II tracking II Cap Inj/3 HSII + 2 EANII + M/Lrep + 2 Cap relay or 1 Cap relay 1 Damage control.
If this Fits it will be OMG.... U dont need more tank and plz dont use pulses i have a feeling it will be slow ... very slow ship.
So ppl lets stop trying to figure how many secs it will take for the cap to die we dont know the stats of the ship because even if it has same cap as Apoc + 1/2 Cap relays the regain will be excelent + cap inj = sweet
LAST ill say again this isnt a SOLO close range ship. But is the best medium long range damage dealer. I dont think there will be a bs that can last much after been pwned by an Abaddon from say 40k...8 Tachs + Gleam + RoF = a very dead BS
True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 08:18:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Nyxus
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Exiled One
Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12
Controlled burst lvl5
megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq
CAP consumption : 69.03 / second
only firing your guns.
aye so you grabed some tachyons, shoveled them in a megathron and you start to shoot them to see how much cap they use.
...now I say this (for the nth time), what does that prove when you don't know how much cap will the abbadon have? that tachyons empty the mega's cap more faster than I eat a twinkie?
Well....if you look at the largest cap ship in the game, the Apoc, with BS lvl 5 and max skills has 7200 cap.
If the Abaddon has the same amount of cap as the battleship with a bonus to cap and has bs at level 5 that would mean that the Aba can shoot it's guns for 70 seconds best case scenario. Tbh it can't have more cap than the Apoc, as that renders the Apoc pretty useless with it's bonus (well, more useless than it already is).
Realistically the Abaddon will have the same base as the Apoc, 4800. With skills thats 6000 cap. If we accept this as reasonable (and it is) it would mean that the Abaddon will ba able to fire it's lasers *WITH MAX SKILLS* for 58 seconds. ONLY firing its weapons. No active hardners, repping, or sensor boosters. 2 heavy cap injectors firing continuously at the same time provide 6400 cap in the first minute. The guns alone require 6120 cap per minute.
God help you though when the 2 cap injectors have to reload after the first minute.
Grimpak we can't know for sure what the cap on the Abaddon will be. We can make a logical assumption that it is not more than the cap specialist ship, and not less than geddon. It makes the most sense that it would equal the base amount on the apoc.
And honestly that's just not enough.
Tux says that it "can gank or tank - but not both". I wish he would explain to me how this ship can tank and fire any weapons besides projectiles. At least if it was 8 turrets/ 8 missiles it could mount a decent tank and fire weapons. It can't fire any Amarr bs sized weapon other than a rack of missiles.
Nyxus
ok now I have the head a bit more clearer (lack of pain does that yay)
Tux said that it will be able to tank or gank, but not both, so let's think of a theoredical cap size + regen for the ship that can sustain 1 thing but not both.
Well Abbadon will need a big cap, that's for sure, so let's throw a reasonable number (btw, generaly higher tier ships have higher cap afaik, so that means the abbadon will not have the cap at the same size of the apoc), and using whoopie's numbers:
6000 base cap x 1,25 (maxed skills) = 7500
with maxed skills too, I would give it a peak recharge (with no mods), of arround 90cap/sec.
with a couple of CPR's, this number can be raised pretty substancially, and allow the double rep tank + tachy setup (omg!). so it would be a bit of unbalanced, so let's low the recharge a bit for 85cap/sec on the peak. that number is capable of maintaining a small tank + T2 tachs for sure.
...now I say this, isn't this supposition, a probable scenario?
and yes, I checked out, higher tier = better cap. look at the progression auguror -> arbitrator -> omen -> maller
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
|
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 08:22:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 27/07/2006 08:22:27
Originally by: Grimpak
snip
but if the ship has an uber natural cap regen youre going to end up with people fitting projtiles and being able to easily run a triple rep tank. Sure your dps might not be great but you can do all dmg types and will be hard as hell to kill.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 08:30:00 -
[276]
Edited by: Grimpak on 27/07/2006 08:36:10
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 27/07/2006 08:22:27
Originally by: Grimpak
snip
but if the ship has an uber natural cap regen youre going to end up with people fitting projtiles and being able to easily run a triple rep tank. Sure your dps might not be great but you can do all dmg types and will be hard as hell to kill.
then nerf the ship and you get a useless abbadon.
or you can give numbers and help the discussion.
let's start with the ones I said: maxed skills abbadon's cap = 7500 with peak recharge of 85cap/sec (this is all supposition)
what would be a "balanced" cap for you?
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
|
Cpt Abestos
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 08:58:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 27/07/2006 09:01:34
Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 27/07/2006 08:36:10
Originally by: Cpt Abestos
Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 27/07/2006 08:22:27
Originally by: Grimpak
snip
but if the ship has an uber natural cap regen youre going to end up with people fitting projtiles and being able to easily run a triple rep tank. Sure your dps might not be great but you can do all dmg types and will be hard as hell to kill.
then nerf the ship and you get a useless abbadon.
or you can give numbers and help the discussion.
let's start with the ones I said: maxed skills abbadon's cap = 7500 with peak recharge of 85cap/sec (this is all supposition)
what would be a "balanced" cap for you?
well an apoc with max skills is 7500cap with a 692 recharge or 27 cap/s max regen triple lrg reps use 106cap/s(edit; with that kind of regen it could run dual reps forever and triple for over 2 mins).
I would take another approach to this whole situation and give amarr gun ships and fixed 30-50% reduction in the cap use of their repective sized lasers, since lasers have all but completely lost their "bulit in" dmg bonus. Then I would give ships like the omen/geddon a further say 5% reduction in cap use per lvl. Then give ships like the apoc an 5% dmg bonus per lvl (25% rof bonus = 37.5dps increase), then make the abbadon have 5% optimal range since its likely going to be way too slow to use pulses effectively.
|
Ishana
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 09:06:00 -
[278]
This might have been said before, but when I saw the abbandon explenation, the first thing I though was.
Fit huge armor tank, and then fit 8 large projectile guns = win.
Could this mean we'll see the old style apoc again? (with 8 howies?)
_________________________________________________________
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 16:28:00 -
[279]
I can't say I was happy when I first heard of the Abaddon's preliminary bonuses but I'd like to say that most of the worries coming out regarding the Abaddon are squared around the Apocalypse and the Armageddon. Amarr are armor+lasers of course, but a lot of people are feeling that as soon as it is introduced it will definitely make the Armageddon obsolete in close range righting and that it will make the apocalypse pointless for tanking purposes or long-range fighting. Based on the teaser bonuses, you can make this better than an armageddon or better than an apocalypse in their respective roles.
The biggest piece to all these worries hasn't been released yet and that piece is mainly the capacitor statistics. So the Abaddon's purpose is going to be centered around that capacitor.
Even then I myself have worries if it will even keep the Armageddon useful at the very least, since most people are specifically thinking of using this as a ganker.
Why couldn't we get an Augoror BS...I like flying the toaster =D
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Rockpounder
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 19:14:00 -
[280]
I'm looking forward to this ship, I think it will be great. Burst DPS rather then sustainability. In any short encounter this will be a great ship, not solo perhaps and not in loooong fleet fights perhaps, but anything in between. If I know I will be going in to a long fleet battle I'll take another ship. It is too much to ask that one ship should cover all the situations in the game, that would be boring.
With 5000 more PG than the geddon I'm sure fitting will be more fun at least.
|
Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 19:51:00 -
[281]
Ok to stop this "we dont even know stats for this ship" nonsense:
1. If Abaddon cant fit 8 tachs/cap booster/lar t2 nobody will fly it, so we all asume it CAN
2. Like somebody stated before it CAN'T have more cap then Apoc after skills because that would render 5% more cap per lvl useless completely
3. Dunno from where ppl get this 90cap/sec recharge crap but if you know nothing about the subject dont make us read your posts!!!
4. Drone bay size is not really a significant factor, it'd have to be something like 300m3 to make it a drone ship but still mega can fit rack of blasters, 5 ogres, cap booster and send you to hell if you only use your drone for dps (and from what we see you wont be able to fire your guns)
5. Last but not least, i hearby DEMAND devs give us something new. Leave 5% rez bonus cuz we need a good tanker, Apoc is just silly at it cuz Raven can outtank it easily in real life combat (most ppl posting here seem to be doing their battles on paper locked in a cubicle at work) As for the second bonus give us something different, a ship that can be a Geddon or Apoc is just pushing it. Not everyone flying amarr likes to snipe gates at 150km or do fleet fights (bleee), be creative.
I would settle for 5% dmg bonus to help obvious cap issues but it would still be Apoc/Geddon on steroids
And for all of you who see hope in nos nerf think again, they will be used still only battles will take longer (your cap&tank will collapse on its own after you hit 25% capacity) and as life has shown me the one with more cap stays on the battlefield.
|
Perry
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.27 20:18:00 -
[282]
The Design of the Abaddon suggests a 8-Weapon Drone Boat. In my opinion the responsible develeopers didnt know what to do with Amarr anymore, because a Tier3 Droneboat would be 1v1 king for ever. But they probably wanted to keep the option of changing it into a big Arbitrator if nothing else worked out good, so they told the Artwork designers something like
"We want to be able to give it 8 Main Weapons but also a big Dronebay, so figure that out!"
So all we can hope for is that someone realizes that tier3 does not have to be "better in all stats" but it could mean:
"Tier 3 BS are there to give all races a new Role, but because [rp-on]the Engineers dont have much expirence in other races speciality[/rp] these ships costs more and have weaknesses you woudnt expect in tier3."
If they give Amarr the next Turret only Armortank without any role besides being your average fleetsniper, ill just... Pod someone... yeah... good plan!
Pls give my 40m Skillpoint Amarr Main something new. I beg you. Im on my knees! Missileboat, Droneboat, EW Boat. Pls. No Turretship. I have 10zyllion turretships including some crappy khanid junk. Arg
|
BirdBleed
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 01:54:00 -
[283]
Edited by: BirdBleed on 28/07/2006 01:54:32
Originally by: Woopie
Originally by: Exiled One
Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12
Controlled burst lvl5
megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq
CAP consumption : 69.03 / second
only firing your guns.
Except Abbadon has ROF bonus and 8 turrets... why not just do the correct math.
Rof bonuses:
0.75 (Abbadon, BS V)
0.80 (Rapid Fire V)
0.895 (1st - Heat Sink)
0.90 (Gunnary V)
0.9086 (2nd - Heat Sink)
0.94 - (3rd - Heat Sink)
Total rof bonus: 0.75*0.80*0.895*0.90*0.9086*0.94 => 0.4123
Cap bonuses:
0.75 (Controlled Burst V)
Convert to geddon:7/8*.5 => 0.4375 (one less turret, 50% cap bonus)
Convert to apoc: .75*.5 => 0.375 (no ROF bonus, 50% cap bonus)
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II (CAP 25 per/shot - ROF 6.08 sec)
8*25*0.75/6.08/0.4123 => 59.84 cap/sec
(26.18 cap/sec geddon or 22.44 cap/sec apoc)
Mega Pulse Laser II (CAP 40 per/shot - ROF 7.88 sec)
8*40*0.75/7.88/0.4123 => 73.87 cap/sec
(32.32 cap/sec geddon or 27.70 cap/sec apoc)
Dual Heavy Beam Laser II (CAP 35 per/shot - ROF 7.20 sec)
8*35*0.75/7.20/0.4123 => 70.74 cap/sec
(30.95 cap/sec geddon or 26.53 cap/sec apoc)
Mega Beam Laser II (CAP 65 per/shot - ROF 9.00 sec)
8*65*0.75/9.00/0.4123 => 105.10 cap/sec
(45.98 cap/sec geddon or 39.41 cap/sec apoc)
Tachyon Beam Laser II (CAP 95 per/shot - ROF 12.50 sec)
8*95*0.75/12.50/0.4123 => 110.60 cap/sec
(48.39 cap/sec geddon or 41.47 cap/sec apoc)
There, Max skilled Abbadon/Geddon/Apoc with 3x Heat Sink II
and your math is way off.
i get about 2.5 sec ROF with dual heavy pulse t2 on a gedon and with tachyon t2 i get a 5 sec rof
8 Duel Heavy pulse t2 with conflag fitted using 25 cap every 2.5 seconds = 200 cap
so DHP t2 will take up 800 cap every 10 seconds !!!! Thats the SMALLEST of the Large lazers that uses the LEAST amount of cap. THATS 1 CAP INJECTOR JUST FOR GUNS !!!!
To put this into comparison with gallante *****s, A NEUTRON BLASTER T2 (the biggest L blaster) TAKES 18 CAP !!!! 18 !!!!!
So now we have a problem, to fit this ship for tank, you have to literally have no guns on it, cause even with the smallest of the Large lazers, you simply wont have cap to run a tank.
Cap injectors are a must for this ship, so what will ccp go and do, they will give it a smaller cargo bay than the apoc
|
Sovy Kurosei
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 02:11:00 -
[284]
Originally by: BirdBleed
and your math is way off.
i get about 2.5 sec ROF with dual heavy pulse t2 on a gedon and with tachyon t2 i get a 5 sec rof
The ROF he listed is the base ROF, not the modified ROF.
___________________
|
BirdBleed
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 05:16:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Sovy Kurosei
Originally by: BirdBleed
and your math is way off.
i get about 2.5 sec ROF with dual heavy pulse t2 on a gedon and with tachyon t2 i get a 5 sec rof
The ROF he listed is the base ROF, not the modified ROF.
ahhh ok :)
its still anoying how ccp think amarr need/want another turret tanker, imo im training gallante cause amarr is just too dull, most of us were expecting something new from this tier 3 bs (aka big brother of the arbitrator), but instead we get the same thing we allready have, have ccp lost their creativity ?
|
IonHammer
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 06:18:00 -
[286]
hmm
8 1400's fit ?
|
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 06:26:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Kyguard
I don't see why everyone is calling the Abbadon some great tanker.
It will tank just as well as the Rokh and Maelstrom while being half as useful as the other two. Rokh will prob able to setup a passive shield tank and fire its gun for nigh on forever while the Maelstrom requires no cap to fire its guns.
Yeah... Rokh with 2 or 3 shield extenders that gets lit up with TP's is going to be good news for my rage torps.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
|
Darwinia
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 08:19:00 -
[288]
Yes, because we know that torps are a great weapon to use at 200km+ where the Rokh will be operating.
------------------------
I don't believe in sigs. |
Hectaire Glade
Imperial Shipment
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 08:27:00 -
[289]
Change the ROF bonus from Large Energy Turrets to All Energy turrets, this would then allow people to fit it with a rack of cruiser guns, and still have a moderate tanking capability but with reduced damage output.
As said above many times, wait till its hits Sisi and then lets see what it does, looks like a gank boat right now. Couple of these supported by a cap transfering Apoc will be a vicious 3 BS gang.
|
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 13:56:00 -
[290]
I have been thinking about the Aba and Grimpak's points pretty thoroughly, especially in light of Tux's comments that he is really worried about the Abaddon. Moreso than any other ship.
Grimpak - if the cap had 90 cap/sec recharge It would just be too uber. I could run guns and a wtf pwnage tank. If you fit projectiles this ship would be ungodly difficult to kill. But anything less than 90 cap/sec means that it's fairly useless unless you are using duel cap injectors.
Don't get me wrong, I love the damage output of the Aba. But I am having serious difficulties seeing how it can be balanced. Either it will be so absolutely pwn it will be too powerful, and will make the Apoc/Geddon useless. Or it's cap problems will be so severe that eveb duel injectors won't help much or you will be forced to dock every 2 min for cap boosters. I can't seem to find a middle ground here.
And tbh neither one of those options are very appealing.
Tux challenged everyone to come up with a set of stats that would keep the boat balanced. In it's currect incarnation I don't think it can be done with the Abaddon. I also think that the Aba needs to be 8/5/7. Every other race now has a BS with extra midslots, and while Amarr should prolly have less it shouldn't be by 2. The 25% resists means that you don't need another low slot anyway.
Of course I also think that the Apoc should have the resist bonus instead of cap. It doesn't need the low slot the Geddon has because it would have the built in EAN II.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
|
Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 14:22:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Nyxus
I have been thinking about the Aba and Grimpak's points pretty thoroughly, especially in light of Tux's comments that he is really worried about the Abaddon. Moreso than any other ship.
Grimpak - if the cap had 90 cap/sec recharge It would just be too uber. I could run guns and a wtf pwnage tank. If you fit projectiles this ship would be ungodly difficult to kill. But anything less than 90 cap/sec means that it's fairly useless unless you are using duel cap injectors.
Don't get me wrong, I love the damage output of the Aba. But I am having serious difficulties seeing how it can be balanced. Either it will be so absolutely pwn it will be too powerful, and will make the Apoc/Geddon useless. Or it's cap problems will be so severe that eveb duel injectors won't help much or you will be forced to dock every 2 min for cap boosters. I can't seem to find a middle ground here.
And tbh neither one of those options are very appealing.
Tux challenged everyone to come up with a set of stats that would keep the boat balanced. In it's currect incarnation I don't think it can be done with the Abaddon. I also think that the Aba needs to be 8/5/7. Every other race now has a BS with extra midslots, and while Amarr should prolly have less it shouldn't be by 2. The 25% resists means that you don't need another low slot anyway.
Of course I also think that the Apoc should have the resist bonus instead of cap. It doesn't need the low slot the Geddon has because it would have the built in EAN II.
Nyxus
I agree it should be 8-5-7.. it really should so you can atleast use it for "different" roles. 8-4-8 would be boring !
___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
Xordus
Beasts of Burden
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 18:45:00 -
[292]
Personally I think the ship will be alot of fun. I'm glad they finally gave us a ship without the standard reduction to cap usage for turrets.
The only problem I have is with the general state of lasers. For the amount of cap they use and the fact that 90% of the ships have one of their two ship bonuses designated to deal with this cap usage, the turrets themselves can leave alot to be desired... I guess I'd be ok with them if it weren't for the damage types they produce.
Either a higher modifier for all energy turrets, or the ability to deal damage other than EM/Thermal is needed. Or maybe both
Xordus
|
madaluap
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 18:46:00 -
[293]
Edited by: madaluap on 28/07/2006 18:52:24
Biggest problem i have:
WHY THE **** DO YOU NEED TO FIT 8 GUNS
Fit 6 guns+33.3% rof bonus and 25% resistance + 2 large nos
use 1 large rep + plate + hardening = insane resistances + sweat damage...
The blog with the information has allready stated that you cant DUAL REP + GANK it. It can do 2 roles not the usual 1...
You finnaly get a ship that isnt like:
apoc, oh would it be gank or tank i wonder 
armageddon, oh would it be gank or tank i wonder
It is the DREAMSHIP of ammar, WOOT we can tank this baby like no tomorrow and keep more damage than apoc.
WOOT we can gank this baby like no tommorow and be STRONGER than armageddon...
What am i missing here? the insane capuse? well ffs it better have insane capusage, else you GANK+TANK it! *cough raven cough*
/edit: maybe give it a Damagebonus instead of ROF, but please stop whining @ ships that dont have all stats ready...
It could have a INSANE capacitor, or insane rechargespeeds...
/edit2: That said, im a bit disapointed @ all the new tier 3 ships...exept caldari
This is a geddon+apoc in 1, kinda sad: I would give ammar a bigass droneship with a cool shipdesign and nice bonuses...
_________________________________________________
|
Siakel
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 20:40:00 -
[294]
Originally by: madaluap
Biggest problem i have:
WHY THE **** DO YOU NEED TO FIT 8 GUNS
Fit 6 guns+33.3% rof bonus and 25% resistance + 2 large nos
use 1 large rep + plate + hardening = insane resistances + sweat damage...
So... you are suggesting that we fit it to do approximately the same damage as an Apocalypse, yet with two Nosferatu. Yet fit a weaker tank than the Apocalypse has. Unfortunately, without the laser cap use bonus, it also isn't sustainable. So you get Apoc DPS, a tank weaker than the Apocalypse's, and to top it off, make it cost more than the Apocalypse, and also be unsustainable. I must admit, I fail to see the attraction of your setup...?
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 04:02:00 -
[295]
Abaddon should have the damn good DPS in the game (for the "Amarrian" range of course)...with a name like that at least.
8/3/7 (18) or 8/2/8 (18) or 8/3/8 (19)
+25% ROF to Large Energy Turret
+5% HP and Damage to Drones
75 m3 drone bay or 50 m3 drone bay (leaning towards 50 IMO)
I'm leaning towards the 8/3/7 or the 8/3/8. People still get their gank ship with this setup...and it will purely be a closerange ship. Besides, if this ship gets a ROF in ANY form it's going to make the Armageddon a bit obsolete. Might as well do it with style!
The lack of mids makes this thing suck solo just like the Armageddon or the Apoc. And with no cap usage reduction coupled with extremely small drone bay - this is a ship that *needs* to knock out its opponent fast or it is going to be waxing Ted Danson's boots.
Then again if the resist bonus stays whatev. We'd be replacing the apoc+arma instead of just the arma =P
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Woopie
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 04:39:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
..snip..
8/3/7 (18) or 8/2/8 (18) or 8/3/8 (19)
..snip..
It will be either 19 or 20.
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 13:55:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Woopie
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
..snip..
8/3/7 (18) or 8/2/8 (18) or 8/3/8 (19)
..snip..
It will be either 19 or 20.
It was my understanding that ships with drones (sometimes) get one less slot. Not sure about that. But I do not thing the Abaddon, if it gets any sort of drone bonus, should have more than 4 midslots. 3 would be fine for a non-solo gank ship. Abaddon in my setup would be slow even with MWD and obviously a bad tackler. The Abaddon without its locusts (gang members and 5 medium or 10 light drones if at 50 m3 drone bay) is in a bad position. It wouldn't be able to do a whole lot by itself with just 3 midslots though.
Any tier3 BS for Amarr with 8 turret points + damage bonus = Replaces Apocalypse in sniping role AND replaces Armageddon in gank role. I just want to point that out.
All I know is I don't want that resist bonus and I like drones. If you don't like drones fine, I'd rather see the tracking disruptor bonus on the Abaddon instead of a resist bonus.
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Deathbarrage
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 14:32:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Krulla
Amarrians get the PERFECT gankship and still whine?
Do you people just whine on principle or..?
fire 1 volley and out of cap? perfect gank ship.... your idea on perfect is weird dude
|
Aramendel
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 15:55:00 -
[299]
Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 28/07/2006 18:52:24
Biggest problem i have:
WHY THE **** DO YOU NEED TO FIT 8 GUNS
Fit 6 guns+33.3% rof bonus and 25% resistance + 2 large nos
use 1 large rep + plate + hardening = insane resistances + sweat damage...
Because you might as well use a geddon then? That one can fit 7 pulses, a heavy NOS and a large repper with one engineering mod just fine.
It won't have the 25% resistance, but will do 17% more dps and it's 7 guns will still need less cap than 6 guns on the aba + the extra reg of the 2nd heavy nos.
The main advantage of the aba for dps is really that it will probably be able to fit a full rack of tachyons without using engineering mods. The geddon needs IIRC at least 2 RCU2s to do that. But for those setups heavy nos are useless because they are only good for shortrange.
|
Andreask14
Sensus Numinis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 16:03:00 -
[300]
The Abba should have 4 missile hardpoints without any bonus to them, just so it can rat better than all other amarrian ships.
I am so fed up with the amarrian disadvantage in ratting, its the only race that suffers from this, and it sucks.
________________________________________________
Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are. |
Sniser
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 19:20:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Andreask14
The Abba should have 4 missile hardpoints without any bonus to them, just so it can rat better than all other amarrian ships.
I am so fed up with the amarrian disadvantage in ratting, its the only race that suffers from this, and it sucks.
now you told the truth about the whining...
people only want a drone ship to do pve rating full time without worry about dmg types. This game is a pvp game sorry, abaddon is a great fleet ship(like the other tier3 dont count gallente bs) with some passive tank, now pleaser stop whining, this is a pvp game sorry
|
Andreask14
Sensus Numinis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 19:26:00 -
[302]
You honestly think that adding a few missile slots to any amarrian ship will stop the whining ?
You think that any amount of missile slots will gimp the pvp ability?
Have you even read the "Amarr" thread ?
Its easy to call others whiners when you are caldari.
________________________________________________
Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are. |
Dixon
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 19:30:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Andreask14
Its easy to call others whiners when you are caldari.
RACIST!
|
Andreask14
Sensus Numinis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 19:33:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Andreask14 on 30/07/2006 19:35:22
OK, lemme correct that.
Its easy to talk about amarr whiners when you can have a missile an ew and a turret boat with as much drones as most amarr ships also, while all amarr get time and time again are their o-so glorious lasers, which have the same problems over and over again.
It would hurt anybody to spice things up and give amarr a few missiles on their t3 would it ?
The geddon has no launcher, the poc has 2, why not give the abbadon 4?
________________________________________________
Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are. |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 19:45:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Andreask14
You honestly think that adding a few missile slots to any amarrian ship will stop the whining ?
You think that any amount of missile slots will gimp the pvp ability?
Have you even read the "Amarr" thread ?
Its easy to call others whiners when you are caldari.
I would be very happy with 4 non bonus'd missile slots. a HUGE part of the amarr whine is our limited damage types and severe lack of missile bays which allow us to do other damage types. Apoc with 8/4 turret/bays would be ohhhh soo good. |
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 20:27:00 -
[306]
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 30/07/2006 20:29:45
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 30/07/2006 20:29:10
Originally by: Sniser
now you told the truth about the whining...
people only want a drone ship to do pve rating full time without worry about dmg types.
unfortunately theres not a bigger version of that smilie around.
so .. being able to select your damage type sucks for pvp then? i always found it rather nice.
also there are already a lot of nice amarrian pve ships around i dont really think we need to have a droneboat for that reason.
Originally by: Sniser
This game is a pvp game sorry, abaddon is a great fleet ship(like the other tier3 dont count gallente bs) with some passive tank, now pleaser stop whining, this is a pvp game sorry
let me show you 2 other great fleet ships:
2 other battleships that may also be of amarrian origin
as you know so much about pvp you should have noticed that when you engage in it you are mostly fighting against other players. some of those boost more intelligence than the average npc and will therefor be able to make good use of the predictability of amarrian battleships. (meaning no disrespect to the average npc .. even some sanshas have recently found out how efficient tracking disruptors are against amarrian ships)
i guess its fortunate that we dont have to decide whether or not we should use a drone/blaster/rails battleship like the gallente or between ewar/missiles/rails like the caldari. an amarrian just needs to strap on his lasers and hes good to go.
another minor disadvantage to having 3 great fleet battleships may be that you sometimes find yourself without a fleet to use it with. but i guess we cant have everything.
|
Sniser
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 22:42:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Andreask14
You honestly think that adding a few missile slots to any amarrian ship will stop the whining ?
You think that any amount of missile slots will gimp the pvp ability?
Have you even read the "Amarr" thread ?
Its easy to call others whiners when you are caldari.
maybe im caldari but its only because i like their stats, i just use the raven to do pve, and i do full pvp with amarr ships. 4M sp in gunnery and only 300k with missiles just to use torps . Atm im working for Large energy turrets t2, after i finish rapid firing 5
|
Sniser
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 22:52:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 30/07/2006 20:29:45
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 30/07/2006 20:29:10
Originally by: Sniser
now you told the truth about the whining...
people only want a drone ship to do pve rating full time without worry about dmg types.
unfortunately theres not a bigger version of that smilie around.
so .. being able to select your damage type sucks for pvp then? i always found it rather nice.
also there are already a lot of nice amarrian pve ships around i dont really think we need to have a droneboat for that reason.
Originally by: Sniser
This game is a pvp game sorry, abaddon is a great fleet ship(like the other tier3 dont count gallente bs) with some passive tank, now pleaser stop whining, this is a pvp game sorry
let me show you 2 other great fleet ships:
2 other battleships that may also be of amarrian origin
as you know so much about pvp you should have noticed that when you engage in it you are mostly fighting against other players. some of those boost more intelligence than the average npc and will therefor be able to make good use of the predictability of amarrian battleships. (meaning no disrespect to the average npc .. even some sanshas have recently found out how efficient tracking disruptors are against amarrian ships)
i guess its fortunate that we dont have to decide whether or not we should use a drone/blaster/rails battleship like the gallente or between ewar/missiles/rails like the caldari. an amarrian just needs to strap on his lasers and hes good to go.
another minor disadvantage to having 3 great fleet battleships may be that you sometimes find yourself without a fleet to use it with. but i guess we cant have everything.
abaddon > geddon & apoc all time in fleet, abaddon using taychons without fiting mods or maybe only 1. Also 8 turrets vs geddon 7 turrets
Yes , people usually have a brain ,
eanm problem is another thing it sucks yes , people will try have balanced resist when they go to do pvp. i would love if tux change base resist for 20% em in shields 40% em in armor
if abaddon doesnt have 125m3 dronebay then geddon will be much better close ship combat since 1 turret more its only 14% -16% more dmg i cant remember, and drones t2 really do more damage. Apoc needs a fix i would love drones with this ship while remaining the capacitor bonus and remove the cap energy turret bonus.
a Dream's ship for any npcer like you
|
Nedia
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 22:52:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 30/07/2006 20:29:45
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 30/07/2006 20:29:10
Originally by: Sniser
now you told the truth about the whining...
people only want a drone ship to do pve rating full time without worry about dmg types.
unfortunately theres not a bigger version of that smilie around.
so .. being able to select your damage type sucks for pvp then? i always found it rather nice.
also there are already a lot of nice amarrian pve ships around i dont really think we need to have a droneboat for that reason.
Originally by: Sniser
This game is a pvp game sorry, abaddon is a great fleet ship(like the other tier3 dont count gallente bs) with some passive tank, now pleaser stop whining, this is a pvp game sorry
let me show you 2 other great fleet ships:
2 other battleships that may also be of amarrian origin
as you know so much about pvp you should have noticed that when you engage in it you are mostly fighting against other players. some of those boost more intelligence than the average npc and will therefor be able to make good use of the predictability of amarrian battleships. (meaning no disrespect to the average npc .. even some sanshas have recently found out how efficient tracking disruptors are against amarrian ships)
i guess its fortunate that we dont have to decide whether or not we should use a drone/blaster/rails battleship like the gallente or between ewar/missiles/rails like the caldari. an amarrian just needs to strap on his lasers and hes good to go.
another minor disadvantage to having 3 great fleet battleships may be that you sometimes find yourself without a fleet to use it with. but i guess we cant have everything.
abaddon > geddon & apoc all time in fleet, abaddon using taychons without fiting mods or maybe only 1. Also 8 turrets vs geddon 7 turrets
Yes , people usually have a brain ,
eanm problem is another thing it sucks yes , people will try have balanced resist when they go to do pvp. i would love if tux change base resist for 20% em in shields 40% em in armor
if abaddon doesnt have 125m3 dronebay then geddon will be much better close ship combat since 1 turret more its only 14% -16% more dmg i cant remember, and drones t2 really do more damage. Apoc needs a fix i would love drones with this ship while remaining the capacitor bonus and remove the cap energy turret bonus.
a Dream's ship for any npcer like you
|
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 23:28:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Sniser
abaddon > geddon & apoc all time in fleet, abaddon using taychons without fiting mods or maybe only 1. Also 8 turrets vs geddon 7 turrets
...
if abaddon doesnt have 125m3 dronebay then geddon will be much better close ship combat since 1 turret more its only 14% -16% more dmg i cant remember, and drones t2 really do more damage.
being too similar to geddon and apoc is pretty much my main complaint with it..aside from not being a big arbi :) . with an abaddon with 8 turrets, 8x high, 8x low, 5% rof, 5% resists and assumed better fittings than the geddon there will not be a lot of pvp-reasons to take a geddon (or an apoc) over an abaddon at all.
even taking into account that the geddon may get a heavy drone or 2 more than it the abaddon will be able to fit heavier weapons more easily and still have room for some tankability. so even if the shortrange damage on a geddon would be slightly above that of the proposed abaddons while fitting the same type guns the geddon will likely have a harder time doing that and end up with a weaker tank.
people should worry a bit less about the abaddons capuse though. i dont think i've come across too many pvp situations where i would have needed to shoot at sth for 10 minutes straight. and if you really want to use it to take down a pos i'm pretty sure you can plan ahead and fit accordingly.
Originally by: Sniser
Apoc needs a fix i would love drones with this ship while remaining the capacitor bonus and remove the cap energy turret bonus.
a Dream's ship for any npcer like you
actually i would prefer turrets or missiles for npcs as those allow slightly more control over what gets aggroed. when it comes to missions both the geddon and apoc can be used quiet nicely already and if your working for the empire like a good amarrian you will have the perfect damagetype most of the time.
|
Kh'alas
|
Posted - 2006.08.01 02:24:00 -
[311]
I¦m hoping for a mining ship that can fit 8x Miner 2's and tank through hell.
|
Stephar
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.08.01 03:12:00 -
[312]
The ironic thing... Amarrians still don't have a true tanking battleship. The Punisher, Maller, and Prophecy all have -10% energy turret cap and +5% armor resists. But these bonuses get split up among the battleships, which leads to an odd situation:
Geddon: Has the most low slots of any battleship, but no inherent tanking bonus.
Apoc: Gets two cap bonuses, so more of a utility ship. Can be made into a tank, but you can get higher resists on a Geddon.
Abaddon: Finally! +5% armor resist! Of course, with the insane cap requirements, you won't be able to fire your guns and run a tank at the same time. Unless you fit projectiles...
The fact that the devs said the Abaddon can be used to either tank or gank can only mean that they are EXPECTING people to use projectiles for tanking. OK, fine... put projectiles on it if you want to tank, got it. Yet they give it a bonus to ENERGY turret rate of fire? This ship is a flying contradiction, I don't know how else to put it.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: [one page] |