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Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:43:00 - [211] Originally by: Perry Hello ^^ Im an Amarr only specced 3+ years old Main Char ^^ First of all let me state that the only active fitted ships i have are 1) a Curse 2) a Pilgrim 3) T2 fitted Apoc for Fleet. Now i must see that i get a 8 Turret lowslot dmg/tank ship. Dear CCP i have that allready as statet above, its the Apoc. All i hoped for was that Amarr would get their lacking niche filled like Caldari. Caldari lacket the Moa/Ferox style Batlleship. Amarr lacks the Arbitrator style BS, because lets face it Amarr get their ass handed to them when engaging below 20km. So now that will stay the same, because the Abaddon in its intended fit will get nossed, ecmed, droned and missiled, blastered and ACed below 20km. Fun! --- So i think its time to suggest a Layout for Abaddon that i was hoping for: Name: Abaddon Role: Close Range Solo / Gang Ship Description: In recent Years the Imperial Navy realised that two Fleet Gank/Tank Ships with mainly EM dmg dont cut it anymore when facing the highly specialised designs of other races fleets. Therefore the Amarr Navy took what they allready had in succesfull and specialised design, the Arbitrator, and rebuild it on Battleship scale. However as Amarr technology is not that flexibel, there had to compromises in cost and overall performance. The Result is now known as the Abaddon class Battleship. Bonus: 10% Drone Dmg/Hp Bonus: 5% Tracking Disruptor Effectiviness Highslots: 6 ( 4-6 Turrets, 2-4 Missiles) Medslots: 6 (reflecting Arbitrators 4/4/4) Lowslots: 6 (Decent Armor Tank) Armor: 4500 Shild: 4100 Powergrid: 15.500mW (probably less) CPU: 550tf (probably more) Dronespace: 175m¦ (5Heavy 5Medium) Speed: 110m¦ After the Nos/ECM nerf this ship will not be that uber, and overall more vulnerable to killing its drones then the domis 3 waves of heavies etc. It has less Overall Stats then Geddon/Apoc to reflect the fact that Amarr Engineers needed the Place for more bulky amarr advanced tech, making it more costly and fragile but flexibel and good at short range skirmishes, especially for those like me who have maxed guns and armor and want something new to play with. Also let me state that i would welcome Minmatar get their BS Stabber and Gallente get a nice effective EW boat with Blasters. Thanks for reading. That ship would make the worst drone carrier in EVE bar none. If you want to fly an armor tanker with drones and less guns... try a dominix. If you want something new to play with, try another race. I like this ship, this ship will pwn... I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn.
Perry Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:46:00 - [212] Says Mr Caldari who has it all now.
Galadiin Venyaa	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:48:00 - [213] Originally by: Dixon I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn. How are you planning on doing this?
Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:55:00 - [214] Originally by: Perry Says Mr Caldari who has it all now. That's just RACISM! Yeah I'm caldari, but I usually pvp in amarr ships, and I actually have very similar amounts of skillp in both races (frig/cruiser/bs 5 in both). I love amarr, I don't think they need a droneboat. I think the Abaddon will be a great ship and if you want a new amarr BS make them fix the Apoc, not the Abaddon. Atleast allow the abaddon to be released before you judge it.
Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:56:00 - [215] Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa Originally by: Dixon I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn. How are you planning on doing this? With optimism and cap injectors :D
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:57:00 - [216] Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa Originally by: Dixon I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn. How are you planning on doing this? 8 projectile turrets?
Galadiin Venyaa	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:58:00 - [217] Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa Originally by: Dixon I don't care if I get nossed. I'll still pwn. How are you planning on doing this? With optimism and cap injectors :D hehehehe!!! I don't even have a come back for that! :D Cept I don't like that Amarr has to buy exploding T2 crystals AND cap injectors.
Perry Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:00:00 - [218] Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Perry Says Mr Caldari who has it all now. That's just RACISM! Yeah I'm caldari, but I usually pvp in amarr ships, and I actually have very similar amounts of skillp in both races (frig/cruiser/bs 5 in both). I love amarr, I don't think they need a droneboat. I think the Abaddon will be a great ship and if you want a new amarr BS make them fix the Apoc, not the Abaddon. Atleast allow the abaddon to be released before you judge it. Yes i would welcome a Apoc Bonus exchange, take the Cap Bonus give the Resist Bonus. Apoc done and fine. Ah btw if you think my suggestion would suck we could give it 200m¦ Dronespace for 5 light drones more ^^ I dont want a Domi that think looks like ... in my worst Nightmares the ugly things look better. And i like to fly Amarr only. But Amarr sux, and will probably get another sux BS.
volly	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:14:00 - [219] Edited by: volly on 26/07/2006 13:24:26 I am very disapointed with this new Ship. We already have a DPS BS We already have a Tank BS We do not another Turret Boat ! I hope its time enough to redesign this ship. I would prefer: a Droneship like the arbitrator or a Missileboat like the Inquisitor. or a EW Ship like the Cruzifier To bring just another Fleet Damagedealer is.... just boring
Lisento Slaven Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:16:00 - [220] So the Abaddon removes the Apoc and the Armageddon from fleet fights pretty much right? Higher Alphastrike+same ROF as Armageddon (improved armageddon for fleet fights). Higher resists+Armor+Shield+ROF as the Apocalypse (improved Apocalypse). We now have a 3rd fleet ship that is better than our previous fleet ships. I'm aware the Amarr Navy's ideology is mainly "big gangs" but getting annnother fleet ship is a bit boring. You will not see Armageddon's being used as much anymore because the Abaddon is just an improved Armageddon. As far as the Abaddon vs Apocalypse comparison - it really depends on the base recharge rate and base cap size of the Abaddon to determine if it will be able to sustain a tank just like the Apocalypse without gimping its damage output in comparison. If it CAN sustain a tank while doing the same damage as an Apocalypse then there is no reason to buy the Apocalypse...as it will not be bringing the "apocalypse" to any solar system near you. Just take mr. locust face (Abaddon) into battle because he's worse than the "armageddon" or even the "apocalypse" which are supposed to be world catastrophes =P --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:01:00 - [221] Tachyons = 102 cap use per second 1 Cap injector = 55 cap per second Abba + Tachys = 2 cap injectors? As far as tanking, what lasers are you going to fit and be able to tank with the Abba? Mediums? The main problem is the lack of diversity for Amarr. ESPECIALLY in light of the other races getting ships that fill in holes in thier line up. Caldari = Missile BS, EW BS, Turret BS Gallente = Blasterboat, Sniping boat, Droneboat Matari = Mixed weapon BS, Armor tanking bs, Shield tanking bs. Amarr = Rof BS, Capacitor "tanking" bs, rof & tanking BS. Honestly, isn't there anything better for us? Especailly considering that the Abbadon was a fallen angel given dominion over the hordes of demonic scorpion/locusts of the Abyss? Seems like a drone boat to me. And tbh we really could have used a missile bs or a drone bs more than anything at this point. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Stephar Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:08:00 - [222] Oddly enough, given current game mechanics, this ship would make an ideal stabbed ganker. Warp in, burn through all your cap charges, let enemy pound against your +25% resist armor. Warp out (8 stabs ftw). You could also put a couple of plates on it if you want to go with less stabs. Not really interested in that kind of gaming, but that's what this ship seems primed for. It's overpowered when you have charges, and completely gimped when you don't.
Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:13:00 - [223] Originally by: Nyxus Tachyons = 102 cap use per second 1 Cap injector = 55 cap per second Abba + Tachys = 2 cap injectors? As far as tanking, what lasers are you going to fit and be able to tank with the Abba? Mediums? The main problem is the lack of diversity for Amarr. ESPECIALLY in light of the other races getting ships that fill in holes in thier line up. Caldari = Missile BS, EW BS, Turret BS Gallente = Blasterboat, Sniping boat, Droneboat Matari = Mixed weapon BS, Armor tanking bs, Shield tanking bs. Amarr = Rof BS, Capacitor "tanking" bs, rof & tanking BS. Honestly, isn't there anything better for us? Especailly considering that the Abbadon was a fallen angel given dominion over the hordes of demonic scorpion/locusts of the Abyss? Seems like a drone boat to me. And tbh we really could have used a missile bs or a drone bs more than anything at this point. Nyxus I actually agree that Amarr need a new type of BS. But I think, in light of the Apoc's suckage, that the Apoc should get this change. None of us has had any experience with the Abaddon, and I really like the idea behind the Abaddon.
Aion Amarra Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:41:00 - [224] Hrm. Personally I'd kill to see the Abaddon as a Laser/Tank heavy Droneship, with not enough mids to make a reasonable EM platform (to not tread on Domi territory, and leaving Nos out of the picture for now) even if that slightly strays away from the Arbitrators setup. Alternatively an Armotanking Missile BS. Caldari currently have the only real BS class missile ship. The game also really lacks armortanking missile ships. Come on. Caldari and Amarr are allied. There's gotta be some tech exchange for the newest line of battleships. A combination of both, an Amarr Drone BS that Armortanks and spews missiles would be liquid sex, though I have no idea how the bonuses would look like on this one then. ---- Dixon raises a very valid point in his post above this one, though. The only reason I dislike the Abaddon, is that it treads on both Apoc and Geddon territory, either tanking better than the one, or ganking better than the other (and still being able to fit a silly passivetank). My first thought of course instantly was to change the Abaddon, and not one of the existing ships. If we had the Apoc changed to a drone or a missile BS (even though it's model would suck for that role), or give it the current Abaddon stats, and give the Abaddon one of the roles above, things would be different. The thought of a heavily cap booster reliant Amarr BS, working similiar to a Blasterthron in that respect, does excite me a little. ________ Capitalization is the difference between "I helped my uncle Jack off his horse." and "I helped my uncle jack off his horse." Help the horses, make proper use of that shift button.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:46:00 - [225] Originally by: Nyxus Tachyons = 102 cap use per second 1 Cap injector = 55 cap per second Abba + Tachys = 2 cap injectors? As far as tanking, what lasers are you going to fit and be able to tank with the Abba? Mediums? The main problem is the lack of diversity for Amarr. ESPECIALLY in light of the other races getting ships that fill in holes in thier line up. Caldari = Missile BS, EW BS, Turret BS Gallente = Blasterboat, Sniping boat, Droneboat Matari = Mixed weapon BS, Armor tanking bs, Shield tanking bs. Amarr = Rof BS, Capacitor "tanking" bs, rof & tanking BS. Honestly, isn't there anything better for us? Especailly considering that the Abbadon was a fallen angel given dominion over the hordes of demonic scorpion/locusts of the Abyss? Seems like a drone boat to me. And tbh we really could have used a missile bs or a drone bs more than anything at this point. Nyxus Well written brother.
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:06:00 - [226] It's actually only 84.9 cap/s on the full rack of Tachyons - you need to account for Controlled Bursts V. Still more than double the cap consumption of the next highest(Geddon at 37/s). In a realistic sniping situation(moving battleship at or near your optimal) it does about 15% more damage than an equally fitted Armageddon, but will assumedly have much better survivability with the increased cap/grid that comes with the tier 3 tag. As much as I will dislike running dry and being unable to fight, I think that the ship will be interesting and certainly worthwhile in a fleet setting. Big alpha strike, good short-term sustained DPS, and then runs dry and needs to warp. It's also possible that the ship is being balanced around one of the new rigging modifiers, and that it would have been overpowered without them. I'm sure Tux has read this(and the other threads) and has seen the concerns that people have regarding the ship. Now we just get to wait and see.
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:10:00 - [227] Originally by: Wodin Drukvik It's actually only 84.9 cap/s on the full rack of Tachyons - you need to account for Controlled Bursts V Quote: 102 or so cap/s included controlled burst lvl5 and all rate of fire skills maxed :)
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:30:00 - [228] Doh, we're both right. Mine was before rolling in Heatsinks.
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:31:00 - [229] Edited by: Ather Ialeas on 26/07/2006 15:33:49 Btw I just made a imaginary fit for the preliminary stats for Abaddon (the very old ones from last springtime or maybe even earlier) and noticed that lasers are a ***** to fit on Abaddon but not too hard just like they should be. What really troubled me was that I could fit the following and run it 23/7 with capacitor sustaining itself at about 45%: Highs: Any projectile weaponry including 8800mm T2 AC:s and 1400mm T2 projectiles. Meds: Two Eutectic I Capacitor Rechargers (leaving two midslots free) Lows: 2 EANMII, 2* expl T2 hardener, 1* EM T2 hardener, 1* therm T2 hardener, Large Armor Repairer II This gives total armor resists of 89.43% EM, 88.97% exp, 80.19% kin, 82.83% therm. DPS won't be the highest possible but it's still a lot better than draining yourself with lasers. So yea, like I said in page one (or at least in some Abaddon thread's page one), "Another Amarr bs not worth fitting lasers into." With lasers Abaddon sucks, with projectiles it's almost a pwnmobile. Eugh. EDIT: Oh yes, this is made with a "lvl5 everything" type character template for QuickFit. If someone wants it I'll upload it to eve-files.com upon request. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
Kenan Waroria Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:33:00 - [230] Hmm, I¦m not sure how high you want to scram for the ship to be an BS version of Arbitrator, CCP could give you an BS version of Inquisitor, Tormentor () or Augoror. I wouldn¦t mind the Apoc become an BS sized Tormentor (8 turrets and 20%mining bonus/lvl). But I don¦t think anyone would want an BS version of Inquisitor or Augoror.. -= Think negative and you¦ll get positive surprices =-
Etherios Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:53:00 - [231] What dont u all understand about the Amarr really? I mean why ppl still ask for solo/gang Amarr bs. Close range for Amarr IS BAD why dont u all understand that. Solo/close range = DEATH for all Amarr BS ... we dont have enuf Med slots and we depend on cap too damn much. There is no Gankedon any more and there will never be any Laser fitted Amarr bs that can be good at close range. Only if u use arties or if all this whine chance lasers (dought it). The guys that ask for Droneships WTF is wrong with u? When was amarr good at that and how can u be good at that without getting a ship with drone space and drone bonus? (AKA new Amarr version of Dominix) I dont think the AB will kill the Armas and the Apocs.Arma is still the cheepest and best close range bs(because we dont know agility and speed yet and i think Arma will be lot better in that area) Apoc is still the best NPC/tank in the game (armor tanking). So the AB just gives a 3rd choice to have a VERY HARD hitting bs with small tank(passive mostly). We dont know the rest stats so we cant say about tanking. U need cap to tank resist isnt enuf. P.S. Why ppl keep asking for other races ships/playstyle? Just go play that race... or u all dont want to spend SP for that and just want ccp to do it the easy way. True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:02:00 - [232] Etherios, I think many people are asking for a droneboat because they do use drones in their daily Amarr pvp, either in a Curse/Pilgrim or an Arbitrator. It's also very effective, so you see people asking for a battleship-sized version of the ship that they enjoy flying. I suspect another reason people ask for a droneboat is because they take a little more finesse to fly(at least Arbies do. ).
Shadowsword Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:12:00 - [233] I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship. The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage: - 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km - 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable. The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO. ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy.
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:16:00 - [234] Right, now if you have amarr bs 5 and plan on flying the allmighty abaddon, delete your character, start a new one and train amarr bs to lvl3 Think for a second: 8 turrets, rof bonus, no bonus to large energy turret capacitor use. RETARDED I was wrong abaddon wasn't meant to be a 2nd apoc, it meant to be a piece of flying **. No more comments. Originally by:** Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Agent2 Holtze Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:22:00 - [235] It would be really usefull if people actually started playing this game instead of just whining on the forums... I'm looking forward to fly this monster. And believe me its gonna hurt! Posting and you!
Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:29:00 - [236] Originally by: Agent2 Holtze It would be really usefull if people actually started playing this game instead of just whining on the forums... I'm looking forward to fly this monster. And believe me its gonna hurt! you win the thread... abaddon will rock
Etherios Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:29:00 - [237] Edited by: Etherios on 26/07/2006 16:30:19 Epsilon 1 thank u for ur constractive Opinion i hope i wont see u in one anytime soon Wodin Drukvik : well man u will still have the minus of using lasers. Also very few med slots (Amarr style). So u will have a very mediocre ship. Ather Ialeas: We big boys as u said dont use Apocs or the AB now while going solo or small gangs. But personally i always use the arma... and i think now the AB. If u dont like use a stabbed Vagapond way better... Well most of u here just say it sux and the best think to do is to use other guns than lasers.... many use to say the same for Apocs also. So i guess ppl dont change... True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:31:00 - [238] Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 16:32:09 Originally by: Agent2 Holtze It would be really usefull if people actually started playing this game instead of just whining on the forums... I'm looking forward to fly this monster. And believe me its gonna hurt! TBH the Abba's viability will come down to 2 stats that are not released yet. 1) Drone bay size in comparison to the Geddon If it isn't comparable in size no one will fly the Abba over the Geddon. That extra turret is only like 14% more dps with 50% more cap use, and ogre II's have a really nice damage output combined with geddon firepower. If the Ogre's bring the dps any closer than 14%, and you can tank with the geddon better due to cap, why would you fly the Abba? 2) If the capacitor size isn't any bigger than the apoc w/BS lvl 5, even 2 cap injectors won't make it even semi sustainable in the short term even for guns. Nos will make it even more vulnerable. This thing better have almost capital ship sized capacitor. My main problem is that it's not any different than our other 2 ships. Why we can't get a drone boat or a 8 missile bay ships I will never know. The other ships all provide something different/what was missing to thier respective races. Hyperion = blaster, Rokh = turret sniper, Maelstrom = 8 gun shield tanker. Abba = Apoc and Geddon rolled into 1. Nothing new or different, with possible severe cap issues forcing docking for 'ammo' worse than any other ship ever created. Think about how many charges you can put in your cargo hold. Imagine needing 2 cap injectors running all the time JUST to shoot. Think about needing an alt in a bestower following you around with Cap 800 charges. Cuz thats what you would need. Looking at the normal size of amarr cargo bays you will be able to carry about 2 minutes worth of firing before you have to go get more charges. Nyxus Abba will actually need 128% of the cap of the Geddon. Thanks Aramendel. FFS that is depressing. Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Flash Landsraad Nexus Legion Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:35:00 - [239] The ROF bonus just makes me sad tbh, I was hoping for a resist bonus and something like a tracking disruptor effectiveness or drone bonus . Amarr get screwed again, go figure... Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash
Agent2 Holtze Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:43:00 - [240] Originally by: Nyxus Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 16:32:09 Originally by: Agent2 Holtze It would be really usefull if people actually started playing this game instead of just whining on the forums... I'm looking forward to fly this monster. And believe me its gonna hurt! TBH the Abba's viability will come down to 2 stats that are not released yet. 1) Drone bay size in comparison to the Geddon If it isn't comparable in size no one will fly the Abba over the Geddon. That extra turret is only like 14% more dps with 50% more cap use, and ogre II's have a really nice damage output combined with geddon firepower. If the Ogre's bring the dps any closer than 14%, and you can tank with the geddon better due to cap, why would you fly the Abba? 2) If the capacitor size isn't any bigger than the apoc w/BS lvl 5, even 2 cap injectors won't make it even semi sustainable in the short term even for guns. Nos will make it even more vulnerable. This thing better have almost capital ship sized capacitor. My main problem is that it's not any different than our other 2 ships. Why we can't get a drone boat or a 8 missile bay ships I will never know. The other ships all provide something different/what was missing to thier respective races. Hyperion = blaster, Rokh = turret sniper, Maelstrom = 8 gun shield tanker. Abba = Apoc and Geddon rolled into 1. Nothing new or different, with possible severe cap issues forcing docking for 'ammo' worse than any other ship ever created. Think about how many charges you can put in your cargo hold. Imagine needing 2 cap injectors running all the time JUST to shoot. Think about needing an alt in a bestower following you around with Cap 800 charges. Cuz thats what you would need. Looking at the normal size of amarr cargo bays you will be able to carry about 2 minutes worth of firing before you have to go get more charges. Nyxus Abba will actually need 128% of the cap of the Geddon. Thanks Aramendel. FFS that is depressing. It's called an Abaddon And, well, go play with the setups, i can't say if it's going to be good ar bad for PvE, because i don't do that, but for PvP it's going to be good! And i agree, it would have been awesome with a semi-drone boat for the amarr. Posting and you!

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