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Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:45:00 - [241] Originally by: Etherios Wodin Drukvik : well man u will still have the minus of using lasers. Also very few med slots (Amarr style). So u will have a very mediocre ship. Yeah, I think most of the people lobbying for that ship wanted something along the lines of a 6/5/7 slot layout with a 275ish drone bay and the Arbitrator bonus set(10% drone hp/shields/damage per level, 5% tracking disruptor effectiveness). Even with the Nos changes that are coming in Kali, I suspect we still won't see droneboats using more than one or two real weapons(though I could and frequently have been very wrong). Certainly I'd never use the Abaddon in its current form as a drone carrier. It will be a very interesting ship to fly, and we'll have to see how things shake out.
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:46:00 - [242] Originally by: Agent2 Holtze It's called an Abaddon I think people are calling it ABBAdon because Tux said that it has driven some devs nuts at the office and as such those people want to express their distrust towards Tuxford's balancing skills by using the improper name. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
Lo3d3R Implant Liberation Front	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:49:00 - [243] The problem is that not every expectation will be met, and with about 20 - 21 slots and countless bonusses to be given, one could design thousands of ships. Now, I for one believe that the people that actually make this will probaly have thought and discussed about it in allot more ways then we on the forums. Personally I am really happy it will be this 8 gun setup and not some droneship, don't we have carriers for that anyway!? /so said Lo3d3R ganker of noobs, eater of bearmeat products. ___________________ Eating Chopped Bear:
volly	Posted - 2006.07.26 18:14:00 - [244] Originally by: Etherios P.S. Why ppl keep asking for other races ships/playstyle? Just go play that race... or u all dont want to spend SP for that and just want ccp to do it the easy way. You mean Caldari ?
Panta Rei Millennium E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 18:41:00 - [245] Originally by: Shadowsword I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship. The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage: - 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km - 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable. The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO. Actually, that's not such a bad idea, when you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.07.26 19:19:00 - [246] Originally by: Lo3d3R Now, I for one believe that the people that actually make this will probaly have thought and discussed about it in allot more ways then we on the forums. Sometimes.....it doesnt seam like it.
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.26 19:26:00 - [247] Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 19:27:02 Originally by: Panta Rei Originally by: Shadowsword I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship. The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage: - 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km - 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable. The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO. Actually, that's not such a bad idea, when you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction. If the rof counted towards missiles AND lasers. Maybe. Only if it was 8 turrets/6 launchers though. I also call it the Abba because that is what I will be playing over TS/Ventrilo every time I fly it. It will be "Mama Mia". And honestly, I feel like Amarr are the little blonde and Caldari is Joan. OMG, plz don't hit me again!!!! I swear that should be the theme song/movie for all Amarr characters. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.26 19:29:00 - [248] How about we just stop trying to re-invent amarr. The race is guns and armor. That's why I trained for their ships, that's why I like 'em. Missiles and drones are for the weak. If the RoF will cause the Abaddon to consume to much cap (wich I don't think will actually happen) then the devs can always change it to a damage bonus. Then you'd have the same DPS but a little less cap usage.
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.26 19:40:00 - [249] Originally by: Dixon How about we just stop trying to re-invent amarr. The race is guns and armor. That's why I trained for their ships, that's why I like 'em. Missiles and drones are for the weak. If the RoF will cause the Abaddon to consume to much cap (wich I don't think will actually happen) then the devs can always change it to a damage bonus. Then you'd have the same DPS but a little less cap usage. It needs to be changed because as it stands you will need 2 cap injectors just to fire tachyons. Assuming a full cargo of cap 800s that means you will have about 2 minutes of total firing before you have to dock for "ammo". I don't have to explain how much that will suck. And TBH Amarr have a LOT of drone ships. Second only to Gallente. And we have 2 "missile specialist" ships. So it's not 're-inventing' Amarr as it is 'trying to utilize all that Amarr actually is'. Actually the Rokh gets 8 turrets and Caldari are the "Missile" race. Amarr are the "turret" race, yet lots of other racial ships get 8 turrets. Why can't the Abba be an 8 turret/8 missile launcher boat. That would be sectsy. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Exiled One Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.26 20:09:00 - [250] Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12 Controlled burst lvl5 megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq CAP consumption : 69.03 / second only firing your guns.
Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.26 20:26:00 - [251] Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Dixon How about we just stop trying to re-invent amarr. The race is guns and armor. That's why I trained for their ships, that's why I like 'em. Missiles and drones are for the weak. If the RoF will cause the Abaddon to consume to much cap (wich I don't think will actually happen) then the devs can always change it to a damage bonus. Then you'd have the same DPS but a little less cap usage. It needs to be changed because as it stands you will need 2 cap injectors just to fire tachyons. Assuming a full cargo of cap 800s that means you will have about 2 minutes of total firing before you have to dock for "ammo". I don't have to explain how much that will suck. And TBH Amarr have a LOT of drone ships. Second only to Gallente. And we have 2 "missile specialist" ships. So it's not 're-inventing' Amarr as it is 'trying to utilize all that Amarr actually is'. Actually the Rokh gets 8 turrets and Caldari are the "Missile" race. Amarr are the "turret" race, yet lots of other racial ships get 8 turrets. Why can't the Abba be an 8 turret/8 missile launcher boat. That would be sectsy. Nyxus
Shadowsword Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.26 20:39:00 - [252] Originally by: Nyxus Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 19:27:02 Originally by: Panta Rei Originally by: Shadowsword I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship. The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage: - 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km - 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable. The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO. Actually, that's not such a bad idea, when you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction. If the rof counted towards missiles AND lasers. Maybe. Only if it was 8 turrets/6 launchers though. No, that would overpower the ship for sure. Since the Abaddon will be one of the three best tankers, with the Rokh and the Maelstrom, it need to do less DPS than most BS when in a low-cap usage, tanking setup. The way to acheive less DPS, while still having a semi-decent amount of it, is done by a/ a RoF bonus that would then apply only to 4 high slots b/damage mods affecting only one half of the weapons. Think about the Typhoon: dual bonus, good DPS. Now replace the typhoon projectile weapons by laser weapons, which tend to do more DPS, and add that nice tanking bonus => Grossly overpowered ship. That's what need to be avoided. As for 6 launchers hardpoints, that would make a Raven with a tanking bonus. Also overpowered. No thanks ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy.
Cpt Abestos	Posted - 2006.07.26 23:13:00 - [253] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Nyxus Edited by: Nyxus on 26/07/2006 19:27:02 Originally by: Panta Rei Originally by: Shadowsword I pondered a lot about the Abaddon, and I've come up with an interesting idea: keep the bonuses that way, but put 4 launcher slots and a bit more CPU in the ship. The ship is supposed to dish out lots of pain, but without any kind of sustainable tank, OR tank like hell but with only mediocre to decent damage: - 8 lasers fitted: biggest DPS score than anything else above 15km - 4 lasers + 4 missile launchers: less than average DPS, better resists than an Apoc but tank less sustainable. The way I see it, it has every advantage: it gives Amarr players a wider range of options than just 8 lasers without tank or 8 projectiles with tank, and it gives some much needed damage type polyvalence, the one thing that Amarrs need most, IMHO. Actually, that's not such a bad idea, when you get past the initial knee-jerk reaction. If the rof counted towards missiles AND lasers. Maybe. Only if it was 8 turrets/6 launchers though. No, that would overpower the ship for sure. Since the Abaddon will be one of the three best tankers, with the Rokh and the Maelstrom, it need to do less DPS than most BS when in a low-cap usage, tanking setup. The way to acheive less DPS, while still having a semi-decent amount of it, is done by a/ a RoF bonus that would then apply only to 4 high slots b/damage mods affecting only one half of the weapons. Think about the Typhoon: dual bonus, good DPS. Now replace the typhoon projectile weapons by laser weapons, which tend to do more DPS, and add that nice tanking bonus => Grossly overpowered ship. That's what need to be avoided. As for 6 launchers hardpoints, that would make a Raven with a tanking bonus. Also overpowered. No thanks except the abbadon is only able to tank well if you turn off the guns. If this ship has some ungodly amount of cap to compensate for its bonus i forsee people running projtiles and a triple rep tank.
Lisento Slaven Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:09:00 - [254] It would be cool if we could stick with the locust theme... +2 to light drones capable of being launched per level. Weeee! 15 light drones! Locusts! (75 m3 drone bay) --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:17:00 - [255] While I do like the drone idea, like already metioned that would kind of make the domi pointless. Missiles on the other hand would still give it that swarm of stinging locust effect beffiting it's name, well to a certain degree anyway. Not to mention adding that bit of much need variety to the stagnent pool that is Amarr ship design. Tho if a gun ship it must be, I still tink make it a bs sized executioner or zealot, fast and agile by bs standards. Just like the executioner got given the description claiming it was a counter to the fast min frigs, make this one a counter to the fast min BS.
Lisento Slaven Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:19:00 - [256] Originally by: Nemain While I do like the drone idea, like already metioned that would kind of make the domi pointless. Missiles on the other hand would still give it that swarm of stinging locust effect beffiting it's name, well to a certain degree anyway. Not to mention adding that bit of much need variety to the stagnent pool that is Amarr ship design. Tho if a gun ship it must be, I still tink make it a bs sized executioner or zealot, fast and agile by bs standards. Just like the executioner got given the description claiming it was a counter to the fast min frigs, make this one a counter to the fast min BS. Would 15 light drones overpower 5 heavy or 5 medium drones though? Speaking of a bonus for ONLY combat based light drones (not utility or ewar or anything like that, just the damage dealing ones). --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Grimpak Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:21:00 - [257] Originally by: Exiled One Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12 Controlled burst lvl5 megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq CAP consumption : 69.03 / second only firing your guns. aye so you grabed some tachyons, shoveled them in a megathron and you start to shoot them to see how much cap they use. ...now I say this (for the nth time), what does that prove when you don't know how much cap will the abbadon have? that tachyons empty the mega's cap more faster than I eat a twinkie? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.27 01:49:00 - [258] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Exiled One Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12 Controlled burst lvl5 megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq CAP consumption : 69.03 / second only firing your guns. aye so you grabed some tachyons, shoveled them in a megathron and you start to shoot them to see how much cap they use. ...now I say this (for the nth time), what does that prove when you don't know how much cap will the abbadon have? that tachyons empty the mega's cap more faster than I eat a twinkie? Well....if you look at the largest cap ship in the game, the Apoc, with BS lvl 5 and max skills has 7200 cap. If the Abaddon has the same amount of cap as the battleship with a bonus to cap and has bs at level 5 that would mean that the Aba can shoot it's guns for 70 seconds best case scenario. Tbh it can't have more cap than the Apoc, as that renders the Apoc pretty useless with it's bonus (well, more useless than it already is). Realistically the Abaddon will have the same base as the Apoc, 4800. With skills thats 6000 cap. If we accept this as reasonable (and it is) it would mean that the Abaddon will ba able to fire it's lasers WITH MAX SKILLS for 58 seconds. ONLY firing its weapons. No active hardners, repping, or sensor boosters. 2 heavy cap injectors firing continuously at the same time provide 6400 cap in the first minute. The guns alone require 6120 cap per minute. God help you though when the 2 cap injectors have to reload after the first minute. Grimpak we can't know for sure what the cap on the Abaddon will be. We can make a logical assumption that it is not more than the cap specialist ship, and not less than geddon. It makes the most sense that it would equal the base amount on the apoc. And honestly that's just not enough. Tux says that it "can gank or tank - but not both". I wish he would explain to me how this ship can tank and fire any weapons besides projectiles. At least if it was 8 turrets/ 8 missiles it could mount a decent tank and fire weapons. It can't fire any Amarr bs sized weapon other than a rack of missiles. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 02:05:00 - [259] Yep, 8/4/8, 8 turrets, 6 launchers with +5 Missile rof and +5% armour resists would be very nice indeed. Kind of a shorter range armour tanked raven. That would do the trick, tho I could see the new 40+ page complaint thread being why should amarr train missiles as well to use their tier 3 BS. Screw them tho, gimme my missile spamming armour tank bs and I love u long time
Exiled One Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 02:16:00 - [260] OMGOMG THIS JUST IN: GIVE THE ABBADON 6 MISSILE LAUNCHERS AND CHANGE THE TURRET ROF TO MISSILE ROF BBQ BECAUSE IF IT WILL HAVE THE ROF AND NO CAP REDUCTION BONUS THEN YOU CAN GO **** YOURSELVES - OTHERWISE THE SHIP WILL BE USELESS. BBQ
Woopie	Posted - 2006.07.27 02:58:00 - [261] Originally by: Exiled One Edited by: Exiled One on 26/07/2006 20:09:12 Controlled burst lvl5 megathron with 3 heat sinks II; 7 tachyon beams II loaded with multifreq CAP consumption : 69.03 / second only firing your guns. Except Abbadon has ROF bonus and 8 turrets... why not just do the correct math. Rof bonuses: 0.75 (Abbadon, BS V) 0.80 (Rapid Fire V) 0.895 (1st - Heat Sink) 0.90 (Gunnary V) 0.9086 (2nd - Heat Sink) 0.94 - (3rd - Heat Sink) Total rof bonus: 0.750.800.8950.900.90860.94 => 0.4123 Cap bonuses: 0.75 (Controlled Burst V) Convert to geddon:7/8.5 => 0.4375 (one less turret, 50% cap bonus) Convert to apoc: .75.5 => 0.375 (no ROF bonus, 50% cap bonus) Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II* (CAP 25 per/shot - ROF 6.08 sec) 8250.75/6.08/0.4123 => 59.84 cap/sec (26.18 cap/sec geddon or 22.44 cap/sec apoc) Mega Pulse Laser II (CAP 40 per/shot - ROF 7.88 sec) 8400.75/7.88/0.4123 => 73.87 cap/sec (32.32 cap/sec geddon or 27.70 cap/sec apoc) Dual Heavy Beam Laser II (CAP 35 per/shot - ROF 7.20 sec) 8350.75/7.20/0.4123 => 70.74 cap/sec (30.95 cap/sec geddon or 26.53 cap/sec apoc) Mega Beam Laser II (CAP 65 per/shot - ROF 9.00 sec) 8650.75/9.00/0.4123 => 105.10 cap/sec (45.98 cap/sec geddon or 39.41 cap/sec apoc) Tachyon Beam Laser II (CAP 95 per/shot - ROF 12.50 sec) 8950.75/12.50/0.4123 => 110.60 cap/sec (48.39 cap/sec geddon or 41.47 cap/sec apoc) There, Max skilled Abbadon/Geddon/Apoc with 3x Heat Sink II
Woopie	Posted - 2006.07.27 03:09:00 - [262] Edited by: Woopie on 27/07/2006 03:10:02 Originally by: Woopie ... skip ... Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II (CAP 25 per/shot - ROF 6.08 sec) 8250.75/6.08/0.4123 => 59.84 cap/sec (26.18 cap/sec geddon or 22.44 cap/sec apoc) Mega Pulse Laser II (CAP 40 per/shot - ROF 7.88 sec) 8400.75/7.88/0.4123 => 73.87 cap/sec (32.32 cap/sec geddon or 27.70 cap/sec apoc) Dual Heavy Beam Laser II (CAP 35 per/shot - ROF 7.20 sec) 8350.75/7.20/0.4123 => 70.74 cap/sec (30.95 cap/sec geddon or 26.53 cap/sec apoc) Mega Beam Laser II (CAP 65 per/shot - ROF 9.00 sec) 8650.75/9.00/0.4123 => 105.10 cap/sec (45.98 cap/sec geddon or 39.41 cap/sec apoc) Tachyon Beam Laser II (CAP 95 per/shot - ROF 12.50 sec) 8950.75/12.50/0.4123 => 110.60 cap/sec (48.39 cap/sec geddon or 41.47 cap/sec apoc) There, Max skilled Abbadon/Geddon/Apoc with 3x Heat Sink II Just to put some perceptive on those numbers.. Dual Large Rep II Tank: 2400/15/.75 => 71.11 cap/sec X-Large Shield II Tank: 4000.9/5 => 72 cap/sec If you just give up dual rep tank then Abbadon is easily usable, just like they said. Well maybe not with Tachyons/Mega Beams without extra stuff, but everything else, imo.
Kyguard LFC 3rd Front Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.27 03:23:00 - [263] I don't see why everyone is calling the Abbadon some great tanker. It will tank just as well as the Rokh and Maelstrom while being half as useful as the other two. Rokh will prob able to setup a passive shield tank and fire its gun for nigh on forever while the Maelstrom requires no cap to fire its guns. And the abbadon.. Same tank as the Rokh and Maelstrom, but then it turns on its guns.. what will happen? Tank fail within tens of seconds and there goes the awesome tank. Even better, put even one nos or a couple and this thing will drop faster than a dress on prom night. Simply put, the Abbadon is the apoc and the geddon put together. The useless "tank like any other BS, but deal no dmg" and the generic geddon. I will apologize outright to Tux and the dev team if there is something significant that we are missing to this ship aka the stats, however based on logical thinking on how it will be, I've deducted this rant. === God is on the side with the best arti
Woopie	Posted - 2006.07.27 03:25:00 - [264] For example typical Dual Heavy Pulse II / Dual Rep geddon uses... 26.18+72+minor_stuff = 98.18 cap/sec Mega Pulse II / Single Rep + Plate abbadon uses 73.87+36+minor_stuff = 109.87 cap/sec It's not that much more cap use for (83.6/7.88)/(72.4/6.08) => 1.323 => 32% more (gun) damage and 25% extra resists + plate to make up for the lost rep.
Woopie	Posted - 2006.07.27 03:34:00 - [265] Originally by: Kyguard I don't see why everyone is calling the Abbadon some great tanker. It will tank just as well as the Rokh and Maelstrom while being half as useful as the other two. Rokh will prob able to setup a passive shield tank and fire its gun for nigh on forever while the Maelstrom requires no cap to fire its guns. And the abbadon.. Same tank as the Rokh and Maelstrom, but then it turns on its guns.. what will happen? Tank fail within tens of seconds and there goes the awesome tank. Even better, put even one nos or a couple and this thing will drop faster than a dress on prom night. Simply put, the Abbadon is the apoc and the geddon put together. The useless "tank like any other BS, but deal no dmg" and the generic geddon. I will apologize outright to Tux and the dev team if there is something significant that we are missing to this ship aka the stats, however based on logical thinking on how it will be, I've deducted this rant. It will never be a (long term/pure) tanker that's just stupid, but rather a pretty good ganker that can absorb fair share of damage. Something that has always been the main weakness of the geddon when it goes all out gank. Again way too many stats are missing to say it's a uber ship yet, but I think it's safe to say that it has good potential. Unfortunately I also fear that it will have some huge flaw in the final stats other than the lack of cap usage bonus to be any more useful than the geddon currently is.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.07.27 03:40:00 - [266] Just thought I would add: Geddon 7x Mega Pulse II + 3 Heatsink II + Conflag = 40.38 cap/sec Abbadon 8x Mega Pulse II + 3 Heatsink II + Conflag = 92.31 cap/sec The difference in cap drain is enough to feed a LAR II + MAR II on the Geddon. If the Abbadon isn't using Conflag due to cap issues, it'll be outdamaged by the Geddon.
Woopie	Posted - 2006.07.27 04:00:00 - [267] Originally by: Toaster Oven Just thought I would add: Geddon 7x Mega Pulse II + 3 Heatsink II + Conflag = 40.38 cap/sec + LAR + MAR = 94.38 cap/sec Abbadon 8x Mega Pulse II + 3 Heatsink II + Conflag = 92.31 cap/sec The difference in cap drain is enough to feed a LAR II + MAR II on the Geddon. If the Abbadon isn't using Conflag due to cap issues, it'll be outdamaged by the Geddon. Granted, but fitting a geddon like that means the injector doesn't cut it without grid mods* or even co-proc?. Plus MAR / LAR combo isn't worth it in PvP, better of using a plate instead of MAR. * 165001.25-72750*.9-2300-173-1750 => -923 grid
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.07.27 04:28:00 - [268] Originally by: Woopie Granted, but fitting a geddon like that means the injector doesn't cut it without grid mods* or even co-proc?. Plus MAR / LAR combo isn't worth it in PvP, better of using a plate instead of MAR. * 165001.25-72750*.9-2300-173-1750 => -923 grid It's pointless comparing fittings. To make it even you'd need to fit 2 cap injectors to an Abbadon, whose CPU/PG we know nothing about to even up the cap deficit. But seeing as most Geddon pilots fit 1600mm plates and a MAR II, it's hardly worth wasting time on. Just wanted to point out that a gank Abbadon without Conflag crystals is inferior to a Geddon.
TribalBleb Turbulent	Posted - 2006.07.27 04:31:00 - [269] ROF bonus should be changed to a damage bonus imo, unless its gonna have a massive uber leet wtfpwnage cap
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.07.27 05:19:00 - [270] Originally by: Woopie Well maybe not with Tachyons/Mega Beams No ship is. Its redicilous.

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