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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Xorth Adimus
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Legion
46
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:00:00 -
[961] - Quote
Eve is a game, games are apparently supposed to be fun but not according to CCP.
Jump timers make sense, don't get me wrong, a spool up to jump and a cooldown makes sense, at the moment it is broken, it isn't fun. This Nerf just hits everyone with the same unfun range fatigue hammer.
Watching timers get bigger and bigger and waiting to play is fun says CCP:
-Looking at warp tunnels for hours on end.
-Looking at counters counting down so you don't have to warp.
-Waiting to go into warp.
-Looking at tidi as you jump a fleet large enough to counter another fleet 20 jumps away. Mmm what a fun way to spend 2 hours.
Jump fatigue is pretty much the worst thing I can think of to impose on EVE in 0.0. Not because it will reduce cap escalation, it will definitely, however it does it in pretty much the shittiest way I can imagine. It will mean people with massed capitals already in system will always win, travel with a cap fleet /sub cap fleet large enough to counter this will be so epicly tedious, that noone will bother.
The worst hell will be saved for people just trying to get around and do the logistics that supports most play in 0.0, this will go from boring as paint drying to some form of water torture.
People will use jumpclones and caches and they will inevitably get nerfed too, also probably also in the shittiest way possible just to make the game worse for everyone, especially new players.
I play a fun game where you get fatigued, said noone ever.
..Fatigue, boring, stagnation, tidi, timer, death clone, dead.. Eve 2015 |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
114
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 20:00:00 -
[962] - Quote
I support these changes. No more PL hotdropping 10 Nyxes on every cruiser level fight they can find, or flooding Amamake with caps whenever things get interesting there. These are exactly the changes we need to restrict caps and let more full throated subcap fights happen. Big +1 to CCP. You know if all the big alliances are mad, you must be doing something right.
I would love to see more development of bringing caps into highsec. A lot of highsec players would love to be able to use carriers on missions, if only to be safely able to try out these ships. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8408
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[963] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Everything old is new again.
You're making a mistake here. You end up strangling the independents (people who live in npc null) in favor of the establishment (SOV folks like me). You should be doing the opposite really. hilariously, the independents are not clever enough to figure out these changes and are filling this thread with joy at what they think is a nerf to us holy moly is it going to be entertaining when they realize what happened \
For you, not for them lol. They will be the SAD.
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NinjaStyle
hirr
Northern Coalition.
53
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[964] - Quote
so after all the nerfs ect. to make Titans and such less capable you want to make them only usable HERE IN THIS AREA? wtf unnerf them again then if they are only for 'home defence' ect. give Supers back their normal dorne usablity ect. as well!
this is something you should have tried ages ago but of course ccp was too ******* busy at failing with dust and wod...... great just ******* great......... NERF NERF NERF FULLRETARD? Yeah that'll work! |
Diivil
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
298
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[965] - Quote
I have skimmed through most pages and no one seems to be even mentioning the tidi problem that the increase in gate travel will cause, a point I raised on page 6.
Two full fleets traveling in the same region can potentially tidi dozens of systems just from the gate jumps. It's going to extremely annoying and frustrating to deal with.
Oh and I have said it before and I'll say it again now. Warp speeds must be balanced more. Faster ships need to warp slower and slower ships need to warp faster. There is almost no reason to use a BS doctrine now when T3s move so much faster. And you can move from one side to the other way too fast in an interceptor, then just pick up your doctrine ship in that other staging system and you are good to go. And at least by now uncatchable 2.0s aligning interceptors just have to be gotten rid of. Those things were always stupid as hell and latest patch just made them even easier to do. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
4200
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[966] - Quote
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:bp920091 wrote:Congratulations CCP, you've made Stain and just about every single NPC 0.0 region uninhabitable.
I like the general thrust of the devblog, but the above is a valid response. Stain will be unreachable without going through sov, Curse/Thukker will mean going through an oft-camped gate, and Venal will be seriously awkward (Lonetrek > midpoint in the Pure Blind mordus systems, then a jump into a non-station system in southern Venal).
Wormholes? |
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
randomly named no tax corp v2
18
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[967] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:A lot of stuff in this makes not a lot do sense to me.
1 - how can you make gate jumping a super through gates faster over 20 light years? Aligning and warping a capital isn't fast.
Default fit it isn't, but with warp speed mods and midgrade ascendancies a cap warps faster than a cruiser :-) |
domino 8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[968] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
If you want to RF a MoA tower, you have to come down from your capital in bombless bombers taking gates
LOL
Why do you think people started using those? |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
88
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[969] - Quote
Great job @ CCP & CSM. Jump drives were in for a huge nerf for a long time now. It's hilarious to see the tears of all those people that have been asking for a nerf of power projection before. Don't you be pushed into dropping your plans just because some people are threatening to unsub (they won't).
I have several caps/cap pilots and I agree 95% with the proposed changes. There's only a couple details I'd like to see changed:
- 5 ly seems a bit extreme for maximum jump range. I'd rather see a 7,5 ly maximum across the board.
- The Cooldown timer shouldn't kick in immediately but only after 10-20 light years of jumping to enable drive-by attacks and such. This would also take some pressure/risk of smaller groups that are trying to do logistics between low and npc-null for example.
- I too am concerned about new players getting to nullsec without suicide-cloning. This should be put into another release to allow for a separate discussion.
- Moms and Titans jumping gates --> idk ...
"We will be releasing a collection of other smaller changes in Phoebe that will be of interest to many of the same people who are affected by these travel changes. These include a rebalance of starbase weapons, a rebalance of stealth bombers and heavy interdictors, enabling of lowsec doomsdays, and changes to interdictor bubble mechanics. More information to come."
-->
Not sure what kind of changes you're considering for bubbles. But I would have liked you to announce it in this same devblog because it's relevant for capitals being able to jump gates now.
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TheButcherJohn
Nex Exercitus
Northern Coalition.
15
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[970] - Quote
Lord Fargo wrote:CCP cant press the self destruct button fast enough can they? How exactly can new members of any null alliance get to their territory?
By deathcloning of... oh, wait, you can't. Guess 0.0 isn't allowed to be populated. |
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Gabriel Karade
Noir.
Suddenly Spaceships.
193
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[971] - Quote
Shayle wrote:Thank you CCP for having the balls to do this.
For anyone moaning about how tedious it will now be to travel across the map for a fight; that's the whole point! Find a fight closer to home, go reset your standings and destroy your neighbours because you're bored. Let chaos rule again.
For those moaning about not being able to jump bridge across their vast swathe of empty null sec space; that's the whole point! Downsize your sov space so you can move across it to defend it, and let someone else move in next door.
For those moaning about logistics challenges, we managed fine for years without jump bridges and jump freighters (including moving moongoo). Or if it's too much hassle for your alliance to hold half the bloody moons on the map, then don't hold them all - oh wait, maybe that's possibly the point?
How many of you actually remember back to the 2007/2008 era where multiple wars were happening across null sec? Fountain seemed like a million miles from Deklein, and you'd certainly never consider traveling all the way down to catch just for one fight.
Stop crying just because you're ******* lazy.
+1 on top of a like for you Sir. 
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Kun'ii Zenya
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
21
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:01:00 -
[972] - Quote
I still maintain the dual approach is over kill.
The problem: Using capitals to do StuffGäó runs a high risk of a hot drop even from across the galaxy.
With just fatigue this becomes less of an issue unless you are leaving your **** on the chopping block a looooong time. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
2927
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 20:02:00 -
[973] - Quote
@CCP GREYSCALE
I love all of this- but one qualm I have with it is the length fatigue can extend to- I feel like there should be some hard limit to prevent players from having to wait absurd amounts of time to use a jump drive again- nothing of significande, maybe maye the maximum a week or around there.
Still- I love all of this!
Keep it comin'- this will be great
"A City made of Wood is built in the forest;
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains;
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven."
GÖâ-áJovian Proverb-áGÖâ |
Balzaamon
Blackwater Company
C0VEN
7
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:02:00 -
[974] - Quote
Jump Freighters with 5LY limit? Really?
How someone, who lives in Stain will get to Jita with no docking rights in Catch/Providence???
Simple: he dont get to Jita with 5LY JF.
Oh wait, he can jump to system on route and dont dock, wait to cool down timer on cyno, but wait, theres no cloak on JF...
Also it affects other frontier regions like Period Basis/Feythabolis and many more.
Another knife in the back for smaller alliances without sov, keep it up. |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
141
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:02:00 -
[975] - Quote
From a lowsec perspective i think these changes will be good.
Also it now means that larger engagements are now possible for smaller entities without a massive blob just appearing because they have nothing better to do.
**** all the people in PL and CFC who want to complain about this just because you don't want to spend time to get fights and just continue with this it looks like it will be great.
Cant wait for this to be on the test server to play with. |
Surpris Arius
SoulFire Gaming
The Alliance of The Eternal Flame
1
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:02:00 -
[976] - Quote
Taking donations from all of those that are quitting.
I think these changes are fantastic and will shake up sov in the way it needs to occur. The execution won't be perfect, but we will ultimately be responsible for how it plays out. |
Josef Djugashvilis
2546
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 20:02:00 -
[977] - Quote
This thread is getting to the point where more folk are 'threatening' to quit than the game has players.
This is not a signature. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
2726
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 20:02:00 -
[978] - Quote
Burneddi wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Summer Isle wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0?
Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier. Make it so you can only change stations if your clone is currently an Alpha clone, but you can only upgrade your clone if you're currently in the station with it. A new character, still in their Alpha clone, could jump into nulsec without difficulty (or anywhere, for that matter), but an older character will either have to sacrifice some SP, or will have to hoof it the long way. Interesting idea. You'll have to change SP loss mechanics if you do this, because as they stand that's a false choice; no one will ever pick the SP loss. Getting podded in an Alpha clone if you have a few dozen million SP means you lose 2-3 weeks of training. That's more than "some SP", and no one will ever pick that option voluntarily.
Yup, in practice I wouldn't expect anyone to use it, but it gives a fairly straightforward way to cap the ability to use this sort of technique to genuine new players only. I'm not saying we'll do it, I just think it's an interesting suggestion to consider :) |
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Rutger Centemus
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
21
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:02:00 -
[979] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Everything old is new again.
You're making a mistake here. You end up strangling the independents (people who live in npc null) in favor of the establishment (SOV folks like me). You should be doing the opposite really. hilariously, the independents are not clever enough to figure out these changes and are filling this thread with joy at what they think is a nerf to us holy moly is it going to be entertaining when they realize what happened
Never thought I'ld agree this wholeheartedly with a goon ;) |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Friends and Feminists
284
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:02:00 -
[980] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:I need to do the math on this, but the range change to Rorqs/JFs seems like a massive nerf if they're also getting the 5LY max treatment (which does not make sense given the blog says the intent is not to nerf them). Are they? Yes, they are. The blog says the intent is not to nerf them too hard, not to not nerf them at all.
Why nerf them at all, why not buff them? Logistics for null/low corps/alliances of all sizes is one of the most tedious, un-fun activities in the game, but it is also what drives and sustains conflict--particularly in contexts like FW where constant supply of masses of ships is essential to taking a system. Groups won't be able to throw their cap fleet everywhere across the map-that's good--but these changes also make it harder for them to throw their subcap fleet across the map, such as during long-term deployments or restocking a FW hub with frigates etc. etc., and that seems bad. |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
114
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:03:00 -
[981] - Quote
Also, big alliances won't be able to get to the far out reaches of their territory anymore. Solution - hold less territory, and cut down on renting. |
Nora Ashaller
Why Did I Click Accept
1
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:03:00 -
[982] - Quote
After looking at the blog post related to this explosion of rage-tears, I'd say that you are releasing the changes in the wrong order.
Start with the changes to sov, especially if deterioration is going to be usage based, or release both the sov changes and the jump changes together.
As far as the jump distance changes go, having a bit of diversity on jump ranges wouldn't be a bad thing to keep even if the overall max range is reduced. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
681
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 20:04:00 -
[983] - Quote
The irony is that the majority of the people gloating in this thread are rookie corp players posting on an alt or living in empire still.
Just an FYI, to travel 31 LY in 8 jumps in a JF? Around an hour and 51 minutes waiting. Have fun with your logistics when you're 70 LY from jita. |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night
Of Sound Mind
73
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:04:00 -
[984] - Quote
Summer Isle wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0?
Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier. Make it so you can only change stations if your clone is currently an Alpha clone, but you can only upgrade your clone if you're currently in the station with it. A new character, still in their Alpha clone, could jump into nulsec without difficulty (or anywhere, for that matter), but an older character will either have to sacrifice some SP, or will have to hoof it the long way.
Another idea that doesn't hit nearly as hard and doesn't cost skill points: instead of the trivial 5000 ISK to move your clone, make it a function of SP. So, if you've got an expensive clone, you not only have to pay more to upgrade it, you also have to pay more to move it... and you can make moving clones a lot more expensive than losing pods.
On the other hand, neither of those penalize deathcloning disposable cyno alts around, and, honestly, podding cyno alts around is probably something else they want to nerf. (I might actually need to train infomorph psychology so I can JC my freight cyno between the endpoints depending on which way I'm going on a given day, now.) |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
1387
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:04:00 -
[985] - Quote
The jb timer thing reminded me, will caps be able to use jbs as well as gates? |
BugraT WarheaD
132
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:05:00 -
[986] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Shayle wrote:Thank you CCP for having the balls to do this.
For anyone moaning about how tedious it will now be to travel across the map for a fight; that's the whole point! Find a fight closer to home, go reset your standings and destroy your neighbours because you're bored. Let chaos rule again.
For those moaning about not being able to jump bridge across their vast swathe of empty null sec space; that's the whole point! Downsize your sov space so you can move across it to defend it, and let someone else move in next door.
For those moaning about logistics challenges, we managed fine for years without jump bridges and jump freighters (including moving moongoo). Or if it's too much hassle for your alliance to hold half the bloody moons on the map, then don't hold them all - oh wait, maybe that's possibly the point?
How many of you actually remember back to the 2007/2008 era where multiple wars were happening across null sec? Fountain seemed like a million miles from Deklein, and you'd certainly never consider traveling all the way down to catch just for one fight.
Stop crying just because you're ******* lazy.
+1 on top of a like for you Sir.
+2 so , cause I join you in this statement :) |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10250
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 20:05:00 -
[987] - Quote
I would like to take this opportunity
and ask all those who leave the game to donate their money to the
"Solstice Project character rebuy fund".
It's not *for me* ...
... it's *against everyone else* !
Thank you for your consideration!
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies.
Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
772
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:05:00 -
[988] - Quote
If you have a cap pilot on the bizarre right now - you need to kill that sale ASAP!!
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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Josef Djugashvilis
2546
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:05:00 -
[989] - Quote
Balzaamon wrote:Jump Freighters with 5LY limit? Really?
How someone, who lives in Stain will get to Jita with no docking rights in Catch/Providence???
Simple: he dont get to Jita with 5LY JF.
Oh wait, he can jump to system on route and dont dock, wait to cool down timer on cyno, but wait, theres no cloak on JF...
Also it affects other frontier regions like Period Basis/Feythabolis and many more.
Another knife in the back for smaller alliances without sov, keep it up.
Perhaps new player made regional markets will be developed.
And Jita will become just a local hub
This is not a signature. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
No Holes Barred
4773
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:05:00 -
[990] - Quote
Has any concern been given to show players what their cooldown/fatigue would be *before* they jump? Perhaps a tooltip on the timer showing the max possible cooldown after a 5LY jump?
CSM 7 Secretary
CSM 6 Alternate Delegate
@two_step_eve on Twitter
My Blog
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