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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |

Kamahl Daikun
Back To Basics.
65
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Posted - 2015.06.05 11:18:56 -
[601] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:It's almost like you don't understand that 5x sigR with 5x V is the same as shooting a ship without a MWD?
Or that you only recently joiined this conversation?
Only really true for turrets, because in missiles the second coefficient term has an exponent. x5^n/x5 is not strictly proportional change to x5/x5 In any case... I don't see why a Jackdaw losing to a Caracal is a cause for alarm. Haven't T3Ds made enough ship classes obsolete yet? Whether Jackdaw deserves the same praise or not. It's more alarming that people go on about how they can't kite in this. Just keep on snowballing EVE into a Dot Versus Dot simulator, right? If I may be hyperbolic, how soon can we expect small ships to project damage from one edge of the grid to another? And have enough speed to cover the distance for the last, heroic, "well deserved" 80km tackle. 
I'm not saying it's a cause for alarm. My argument is that the LML portion of the bonuses for the Jackdaw are wasted. Typically, when you're fitting LMLs, you're going to take advantage of the range. Fit a long point and kite with the superior range of your missiles. If you're going to brawl or be in overheated web range, you're probably going to take a weapon system that excels at closer ranges like Rockets.
The Jackdaw doesn't have the ability to make full use of LMLs. It's pretty slow and sports a pretty fragile tank with the tight PG. It can't kite, so why have bonuses for a weapon system that only gets used for kiting?
Just saying, if the bonuses for LMLs were removed and the Jackdaw was further bonuses into a dedicated brawling hull, I think it'd be a lot better. The only real threat comes in a FW Scenario where you land at 0 in a Plex and a Jackdaw is waiting for you or in a small gang scenario where someone already tackled it. |

Arla Sarain
482
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Posted - 2015.06.05 12:28:57 -
[602] - Quote
People were begging for an EWAR centric destroyer a while back.
Jackdaw has 6 mids; why not utilise it? 22km fed navy webs with links.
Start the fight at 70km and peel people away as they burn in to "negate your LML advantage", and then get Double webbed outside of their projection range because you are also stacked with a selection of damps/TDs. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1859
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Posted - 2015.06.05 13:45:58 -
[603] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:It's almost like you don't understand that 5x sigR with 5x V is the same as shooting a ship without a MWD?
Or that you only recently joiined this conversation?
Only really true for turrets, because in missiles the second coefficient term has an exponent. x5^n/x5 is not strictly proportional change to x5/x5 In any case... I don't see why a Jackdaw losing to a Caracal is a cause for alarm. Haven't T3Ds made enough ship classes obsolete yet? Whether Jackdaw deserves the same praise or not. It's more alarming that people go on about how they can't kite in this. Just keep on snowballing EVE into a Dot Versus Dot simulator, right? If I may be hyperbolic, how soon can we expect small ships to project damage from one edge of the grid to another? And have enough speed to cover the distance for the last, heroic, "well deserved" 80km tackle. 
Problem is CCP created a precedent with the first 2 T3D and people are expecting those from other races to have similar capabilities. |

Arch-Magus Mephisto
Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans
1
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Posted - 2015.06.05 14:12:27 -
[604] - Quote
So what is the verdict? Is it even worth chasing down?
I see someone lost a 8 bill Jackdaw. Wonder how he feels about it. |

Sloppy Podfarts
Hedion University Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2015.06.05 15:09:15 -
[605] - Quote
Arch-Magus Mephisto wrote:So what is the verdict? Is it even worth chasing down?
I see someone lost a 8 bill Jackdaw. Wonder how he feels about it.
 |

Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
556
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Posted - 2015.06.05 16:02:09 -
[606] - Quote
He feels pretty good actually.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Redbull Spai
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:21:46 -
[607] - Quote
Jackdaw is pretty nice, but what Eve really needs is a ship that can turn those pesky 200km orbitting frigs into ash. |

Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:27:33 -
[608] - Quote
Looking at the current bonus scheme, I would actually suggest adding the Caldari 5% kinetic damage. It would help level this ship out against the Svipul (which is currently crushing it on the KBs).
Otherwise it seems to be doing a reasonable job so far.
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Sial Harkonnen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.06.05 21:04:06 -
[609] - Quote
it looks like a flying "toblarone". absolute not like a caldari ship. and this name... maybe the designers was drunk, or smoke some srange things... should be fired! |

HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
353
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Posted - 2015.06.05 21:15:21 -
[610] - Quote
I like the jackdaw overall. I don't know what people mean by it being slow, it's faster than every t1 destroyer in the game, and it's actually very easy to fit if you're used to fitting destroyers.
My only complaint is that it has sub-cruiser scan-res. Even in SS mode it has very average res for a destroyer, and very low for D3. |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1348
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Posted - 2015.06.05 21:53:05 -
[611] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:I don't know what people mean by it being slow, it's faster than every t1 destroyer in the game
It's also slower than my hurricane out of prop mode (and that 'cane has hyperspatials so it warps faster too)....so...yeaaaaaaah. |

HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
353
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Posted - 2015.06.05 22:58:31 -
[612] - Quote
afkalt wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:I don't know what people mean by it being slow, it's faster than every t1 destroyer in the game It's also slower than my hurricane out of prop mode (and that 'cane has hyperspatials so it warps faster too)....so...yeaaaaaaah. And that's what prop mode is for. Only a duo-nano/OIS cane is faster than it out of prop mode, and with a OSI and a engine housing a jackdaw is faster than that fit overheated.
I also doubt your cane aligns faster than an interceptor (which I find bizarre). |

Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
556
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Posted - 2015.06.06 03:01:46 -
[613] - Quote
Specia1 K wrote:Looking at the current bonus scheme, I would actually suggest adding the Caldari 5% kinetic damage. It would help level this ship out against the Svipul (which is currently crushing it on the KBs).
Otherwise it seems to be doing a reasonable job so far.
The ship also is only a week old??
Did anyone ask why
Small neut 8pg - medium neut 170pg Small cap booster 5pg - medium cap booster 150pg 5mn mwd 17pg - 50mn mwd 175pg
1mn ab 11pg - 10mn ab 55pg? Wut? 100mn ab 650pg??
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.06.06 03:30:39 -
[614] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote: 1mn ab 11pg - 10mn ab 55pg? Wut? 100mn ab 650pg??
 Jeebus that 10mn is just messed. Should be like 100pg. |

Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
557
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Posted - 2015.06.06 04:38:36 -
[615] - Quote
Specia1 K wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote: 1mn ab 11pg - 10mn ab 55pg? Wut? 100mn ab 650pg??
 Jeebus that 10mn is just messed. Should be like 100pg.
The same trend follows for guns, neuts, smartbombs, shield boosters, armour reppers and armour plates (assuming 400mm is frigate/destroyer, 800mm is cruiser and 1600 is battleships) also remote armour reppers and remote cap transfers.
notable module sets that buck the trend or don't follow it are remote shield reps. shield extenders (where you could argue large extenders are a cruiser module since they easily fit on most cruisers and that shield extenders lack an equivalent 1600mm extender) and cap batteries.
Missile launchers don't strictly follow the trend either but that being said most of them haven't been tiericided yet.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Sylana Sif
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.06.07 10:43:25 -
[616] - Quote
My suggestion about the Jackdaw is more of a graphical nature..
I fly it alot last few days, i love what you did to it, its the best small missile boat currently out there. The only problem with it is.. Where is the Bridge? I have no feeling for the ship beeing a ship, i feel like im flying a piece of metal with launchers.. All the other caldari ships have the bridge somewhere, but Jackdaw has it nowhere to be found.. Im sure this will be dismissed easily but if possible this graphic tweak would mean alot to im sure alot of people and not just me once they notice it : ) |

Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
84
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Posted - 2015.06.07 10:59:45 -
[617] - Quote
Sylana Sif wrote:My suggestion about the Jackdaw is more of a graphical nature..
I fly it alot last few days, i love what you did to it, its the best small missile boat currently out there. The only problem with it is.. Where is the Bridge? I have no feeling for the ship beeing a ship, i feel like im flying a piece of metal with launchers.. All the other caldari ships have the bridge somewhere, but Jackdaw has it nowhere to be found.. Im sure this will be dismissed easily but if possible this graphic tweak would mean alot to im sure alot of people and not just me once they notice it : )
Where do you think the bridge should go? |

afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1352
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Posted - 2015.06.07 11:01:45 -
[618] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:afkalt wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:I don't know what people mean by it being slow, it's faster than every t1 destroyer in the game It's also slower than my hurricane out of prop mode (and that 'cane has hyperspatials so it warps faster too)....so...yeaaaaaaah. And that's what prop mode is for. Only a duo-nano/OIS cane is faster than it out of prop mode, and with a OSI and a engine housing a jackdaw is faster than that fit overheated. I also doubt your cane aligns faster than an interceptor (which I find bizarre).
Yup but in prop mod it's squishy and fat. Dat sig.... |

Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
562
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Posted - 2015.06.07 12:40:38 -
[619] - Quote
So do we have any truly successful fits out yet?
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1089
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Posted - 2015.06.07 14:03:25 -
[620] - Quote
Sylana Sif wrote:My suggestion about the Jackdaw is more of a graphical nature..
I fly it alot last few days, i love what you did to it, its the best small missile boat currently out there. The only problem with it is.. Where is the Bridge? I have no feeling for the ship beeing a ship, i feel like im flying a piece of metal with launchers.. All the other caldari ships have the bridge somewhere, but Jackdaw has it nowhere to be found.. Im sure this will be dismissed easily but if possible this graphic tweak would mean alot to im sure alot of people and not just me once they notice it : )
You could also say the jackdaw as a T3 reverse engineered from future tech, it doesn't have a need for a bridge besides a suitable pod-cage made of rolled tungsten it seems. What's the point of having a bridge on the outside anyways, we got cameras now! |
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
301
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Posted - 2015.06.07 22:56:55 -
[621] - Quote
I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration. Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application. |

HELLBOUNDMAN
Engineering Without Permits
212
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Posted - 2015.06.08 01:24:11 -
[622] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration. Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application.
Jackdaw burns through rockets like crazy... Got a 8.4km rage range and it fires the second volley before the first even hits...
I'm going to be spending a lot on ammo for this thing.... assuming it survives that long. |

SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
301
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Posted - 2015.06.08 14:02:10 -
[623] - Quote
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration. Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application. Jackdaw burns through rockets like crazy... Got a 8.4km rage range and it fires the second volley before the first even hits... I'm going to be spending a lot on ammo for this thing.... assuming it survives that long.
It does burn through them, but therein lies the other reason for going rockets instead of LML, rate of fire. I can see a lot of situations when brawling when the quick rate of fire is going to make all the difference between wrecking or getting wrekt. Especially when you are fighting small ships, you don't want to explode because your quarry survived the first volley and popped you before your second volley even goes off.
Once again another reason to love the confessor. |

HELLBOUNDMAN
Engineering Without Permits
213
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 15:52:12 -
[624] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration. Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application. Jackdaw burns through rockets like crazy... Got a 8.4km rage range and it fires the second volley before the first even hits... I'm going to be spending a lot on ammo for this thing.... assuming it survives that long. It does burn through them, but therein lies the other reason for going rockets instead of LML, rate of fire. I can see a lot of situations when brawling when the quick rate of fire is going to make all the difference between wrecking or getting wrekt. Especially when you are fighting small ships, you don't want to explode because your quarry survived the first volley and popped you before your second volley even goes off. Once again another reason to love the confessor.
That reload time though.... It's awesome! However, I think this ship was balanced with this reload time.... Based on it's slow velocity, I think it would have been much better off with a damage buff, range, or web bonus.....
It's slow, and ineffective with LMLs, so it needs something better than a reload time, despite the reload time being pretty cool. |

Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
565
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Posted - 2015.06.08 16:11:31 -
[625] - Quote
LMLs win for me thanks to range. Also their volley is a good 2.5x higher so where it counts you can practically volley straight through some reps.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
301
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 19:41:38 -
[626] - Quote
It would take a pretty dumb garmur to stick around for your volleys to hit. Even if they have to align somewhere and click warp. I think I've only fought one ASB garmur before and it died in about 2 volleys (at 80+km with aurora). That would be about 1 cycle time for beam lasers. How many cycles do you think I'd manage compared to a jackdaw firing at around 100km away, before that first volley of missiles hits?
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
565
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Posted - 2015.06.09 02:22:34 -
[627] - Quote
Well seeing as you can't shoot that far I guess you get 0
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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HiddenPorpoise
Expendable Miscreants
353
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Posted - 2015.06.09 02:57:57 -
[628] - Quote
It can hit to 70 km, it has flight time of 7.5 and a cycle of 6, you aren't wasting shots.
My preferred fit has managed to get LML, a T2 MSE, and combat probes. The people complaining about tight fits don't use nongank destroyers and the other D3 set a bad bar.
Quote:I consider my fit to be reasonably sound, able to fight off linked garmurs at a pinch as well as some unlucky chap found out today. Getting pointed at 45km away makes me upset. Damps are suddenly your friend when that happens. |

Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
565
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 09:52:19 -
[629] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:It can hit to 70 km, it has flight time of 7.5 and a cycle of 6, you aren't wasting shots. My preferred fit has managed to get LML, a T2 MSE, and combat probes. The people complaining about tight fits don't use nongank destroyers and the other D3 set a bad bar. Quote:I consider my fit to be reasonably sound, able to fight off linked garmurs at a pinch as well as some unlucky chap found out today. Getting pointed at 45km away makes me upset. Damps are suddenly your friend when that happens.
65km on my fit. Must be missing a level 5 skill somewhere.
Have you considered using navy medium extenders?
[Jackdaw, Jackdaw bling LML copy]
Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender [Empty Med slot] Warp Disruptor II [Empty Med slot] 5MN Microwarpdrive II
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Expanded Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Small Ancillary Current Router II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Small Ancillary Current Router II
Currently republic extenders are 7mil a piece or you can grab cal navy for 10 mil each. 14k or 14.5k ehp respectively and fittings to spare for other mids. approx 40cpu and 3 pg.
as for damping that requires me to actually have them fit no?
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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HiddenPorpoise
Expendable Miscreants
353
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Posted - 2015.06.09 11:27:26 -
[630] - Quote
I made cuts to dps for speed and utility. Sticking to cheap means when it all settles it will cost 45-55mil. And it has sub 2 tick align.
I suppose I could move up to T2 rigs.
[Jackdaw, LML]
Ballistic Control System II Overdrive Injector System II
Warp Disruptor II 5MN Microwarpdrive II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile Expanded Probe Launcher II, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I |
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