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Tiscali users FUP and other such nonsense

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Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2007.12.17 16:56:00 - [211] Edited by: Ashlee Darksky on 17/12/2007 17:03:51 Edited by: Ashlee Darksky on 17/12/2007 17:02:11 Originally by: migwar Any UK players connect via Tiscali broadband For the past week, From 6pm to 11pm i am unable to connect to eve, Internet connection is fine, just unable to connect to eve server. Having just spend a useless 30 mins on the phone i just wondered if this was part of their FUP and if any other users are affected? I had a similar problem on another online game when I was with Tiscali. It turns out, Tiscali use a lot of TRAFFIC SHAPING and PORT BLOCKING! They of course, denied it to me. However, at 6pm bang on the dot, every weekday evening I would be unable to connect. Web, email, etc was fine. They had blocked my ports! They "looked into" it and found "nothing wrong" - bull! Funny how it kicked in just after my 14 days cooling off period. Anyway, I kicked up such a massive stink they agreed to cancel my 12 month contract with no charges. What they do is nothing short of theft! I would suggest you find their UK compaints office and advise them you are cancelling your contact due to them failing to provide the services contracted for! Do not take no for an answer, do not back down and threaten the "Office of Fair Trading", "Trading Standards", "OFCOM" and so on - they soon skulk off then. If they claim they are "managing" traffic routes, thats fine - but not to the extent where certain routes become unusable - thats clearly a denial of service, and that constitutes a breach of contract. You can therefore escape it that way If you want just web, email, etc then Tiscali are fine. Otherwise, for online gaming go elsewhere. JUST DO NOT USE TISCALI FOR ONLINE GAMING AT ALL!!! I repeat: * DO NOT USE TISCALI FOR ONLINE GAMING AT ALL * (in case you missed it the first time ) Some suggested alternatives are: Zen BT Entanet Have a look at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ for a list of providers, stats, etc. PS - My problem was on their 8 meg "unlimited" (unlimited my ass) service! I know people on the 2 meg service who were ok.
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:08:00 - [212] Latest from Tiscali. Quote " I do agree this has been dragging on, but I also understand some of the complexity surrounding traffic management. I have continued to champion this at various levels throughout the company including at a weekly meeting at HQ. This thread was originally set up by me to gauge the situation but also to provide hard data to the network team. It's doing its job as we are feeding this information back a few times a week. I'm sorry this is taking time, but rest assured, if I didn't think we could get somewhere with this, a) I wouldn't have started this sticky and b)I'd feed you a corporate line and close this off. Lets see what the network team come back to me with and when. Can I also encourage those that haven't yet added their complaint to this sticky to please do so. __________________ Regards Brett Technical Administrator Tiscali UK LTD " end of quote Tiscali support Eve sticky Link click here Click link to post on Tiscali forums, you may have to register, Brett needs as many people as possible so please persist.
Vertex Eisenstein Gallente The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.20 14:21:00 - [213] Finally worked out what I was doing wrong about getting on their forums. Expect some support from me on there as soon as they enable my forum access.
cappie	Posted - 2007.12.20 20:15:00 - [214] I've been trying to post on the tiscali forum for two days now. I'm apparently in some sort of moderator queue to be added to the forums. which is a bit tat. pattern forming !
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2007.12.21 21:51:00 - [215] I will relay last two posts about forum access.
Loschey Teg	Posted - 2007.12.22 20:03:00 - [216] Been with Toucan 4 months (Tiscali owned) started eve 3 months ago. Everyday since then kicked off at 4.00 not allowed to log in until 11.00-11.30. They've been investigating for three months no resolution. Three months are up and have reported them to OfCom as they refuse to allow me to move without liability for remainder of contract. Also informed them I'm hearing Impaired (can't use the phone) but they keep calling me - now reported to the equality commission for discrimination. Promised unlimited broadband up to 8 MB never get more than 2MB usually only 0.5MB access to Eve limited - I want compensation now
Chopkias Caldari The Echelon Corporation The Echelon Order	Posted - 2007.12.22 23:45:00 - [217] maybe we shuld just go round and barricade the tiscali people in their building untill they give us back eve when we want it !!!!!
Ame Nanaro	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:22:00 - [218] 22:17, no connection... been trying off-and-on for the last couple of hours. Normal internet surfing is all OK; and there are 30k+ online according to the server graph. All fingers point at Tiscali; they are, whether specifically port-blocking the game or using "traffic shaping" software to "prioritise" certain internet traffic... The net result is, of course that they are blocking me from using something on the internet. Thankfully this is not my regular internet provider; I am logged on a laptop at my parents house. I used to use Tesco net (which I believe is operated by NTL) - I and my mate have had no problems using it through there. Suspect I'll be switching to Zen next though, as I'm looking for better transfer rates as well as an "Internet service provider". Incidentally, I find it strange that tiscali makes no effort to "traffic shape" malicious adverts, popups, etc. that undoubtedly consume far more bandwidth than eve ever will (other than to download the client software).
Imden Rah Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.29 22:17:00 - [219] Hi to all. Am yet another trapped in this. just joined eve, been kiked off last few days. kicked off today at around 15:00 gmt, in the middle of a one on three battle with NPC pirates. it's now 22:15, am hoping to get back on soon to find out if my ship was blown up.
Imden Rah Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.29 22:19:00 - [220] Just a thought, don't know if this has been raised before but, if this is causing eve losss of buisness (I have seen people saying they are on trial accounts and wont join if this is not resolved before they finish) then doesn't CCP have a case against tiscali?
Perseus D'Solos	Posted - 2007.12.30 17:56:00 - [221] I live in Sweden, and I can tell you that this isn't a UK specific problem. Tiscali is the worst ISP I've ever had. They throttled my bandwidth at levels WAY below those advertised (25-30kbps instead of 2.5mbps), kicked me out during peak hours, blocked certain protocols, etc ad infinitum. And when I called them, their poor overworked support staff told me that I was, essentially, buggered, and that I could do ucall about it, unless I wanted to pay an extortive fee (well over the equivialent of ú100) to break the contract early. After I managed to get it voided, which took six months, I switched to a business ISP, and I haven't had a single problem since, except for a few sceduled maintenance downs. Stay away from Tiscali if you can. They WILL fc you raw.
j99323188 Minmatar Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2008.01.03 00:03:00 - [222] well yes i agree this started for me at the start of october and is still going, i was trying to wait out the 12 month period as its not my connection but the person whos owns the house and was going to try and get him to change then but is isnt getting any better in fact the problem is getting beyond a joke so i know there has been a ticket raised for the general problem which should show how long it has been open for and try and get a mac code that way as it has been open for so long and without the penality i suggest anyone else posting on the tiscali forum in the sticky posts saying the smae thing. and let the mass exit commence
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:26:00 - [223] From Tiscali BB support forums , quote, "HI, I'm looking for some feed back on EVE from the following people: Dash Decent rattyy2 jammcd649 Eleanor N4PALM beano-ni billboii poonfish Mawbster merts Jinlea gpd P_G ErikaCorbett geedee242 gimmepatience BigG jjgr123 Tranquil Damicles Curlio nick7 chopki Jereb93 Deltawar doogs10 chrislen if they are still on here There were some changes made end of last week and I need to know if you noticed anything Thanks __________________ Happy New Year Brett Technical Administrator Tiscali UK LTD " End of quote. Tiscali Eve support, moan your ass off link, click here
ZamZa Koverts Gallente Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:51:00 - [224] Well, it seems I've been hit with this. so you'll soon see my complaint in their sticky thread.
Jisa Deschain	Posted - 2008.01.04 21:36:00 - [225] Well I'd love to reply in the Tiscali forum page http://www.tiscali.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=1880034#post1880034 but I can't when I try Tiscali site says "You are not logged in", despite the fact that I am. Can't believe I can't play in the evenings. I hope Tiscali sort this out soon!
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2008.01.05 00:20:00 - [226] Originally by: Jisa Deschain Well I'd love to reply in the Tiscali forum page http://www.tiscali.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=1880034#post1880034 but I can't when I try Tiscali site says "You are not logged in", despite the fact that I am. Can't believe I can't play in the evenings. I hope Tiscali sort this out soon! Yep there's always a catch, as a Tiscrappy customer you have to log into the forums and create an identity , submit , and then get confirmation from a mod you are actually a Tiscrappy customer, before you can post,hence you were not logged in. It takes a day or so, but another measure to stop the angry angst poster.
Acoloss UNITED KINGDOM MAYHEM Capital Storm	Posted - 2008.01.06 20:14:00 - [227] Like the rest of you guys , my patients is/has run out with tiscali , i am now going to vote with my feet and get my mac code tommorrow , sooooooooooooo cheesed off with these muppets. I missed a cap fight tonight , even lent my char and dread to a mate just to boost the numbers , had to just listen on team speak . Have'nt changed isp for a long time now , used to be 14days without internet , just hope its quiker now.
Riggwelter Caldari Drinkers Appreciation Soiciety	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:10:00 - [228] Last time i changed from Nildram (using a MAC) once they were bought by Tiscali in July, to Zen the downtime wasnt even noticed happened some time overnight had to change my Router settings next morning and connected straight away.
Freya B	Posted - 2008.01.07 20:54:00 - [229] I'm with Pipex, and it's routing through Tiscali. I don't therefore have a Tiscali email address, so I can't log on to their sticky and add my voice to the problem. Is there anywhere else that Brett(?) or Tiscali are listening?
ragupasta Amarr Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:39:00 - [230] Welp I never had a problem until they upgraded my to 8meg, and low and behold, I cant get on after 6pm, its 11:32pm now and I still cant get on. Not blocking ports, my ass. Utter rubbish, just to let any Tiscali workers know who may read this... "limelight-lon-gw.ip.tiscali.net (213.200.77.118), everytime it goes through that server after 6pm gmt, 100% packet loss, everytime.... Im all for donning smartbombs, and suicide ganking Tiscali HQ, they might think differently if we (EVE userbase) was to set up a forum colected data over their crappy lies, then mass exodusing that binformation to watchdog/Ofcom/Ombudsman, get it on a name and shame Tv and newspapers..... "Eve community, pod-kills Tiscali in a battle of the connections"
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:56:00 - [231] Edited by: Snaith on 08/01/2008 01:03:53 In reply to ragu, That's interesting, as usually the packet loss on Tiscali is at hop 5 , are not hop 7 and 8 the Eve servers? and you did make it to 87.237.38.200 which is eve so the port was open, unless I'm much mistaken, going off all the ones we have recorded. Try pings at 30 second intervals, you took 10 over 2 minutes there, which may have been too fast.
ragupasta Amarr Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre	Posted - 2008.01.08 03:57:00 - [232] Edited by: ragupasta on 08/01/2008 04:01:06 Originally by: Snaith Edited by: Snaith on 08/01/2008 01:56:30 Edited by: Snaith on 08/01/2008 01:45:47 Edited by: Snaith on 08/01/2008 01:03:53 In reply to ragu, That's interesting, as usually the packet loss on Tiscali is at hop 5 , are not hop 7 and 8 the Eve servers? It is the first time I have seen hop 6 to 7 be the problem, so I'm wondering if thats where they made the change they were talking about in their attempt to fix things. If they have cleared the server at hop 5 , then maybe if they apply the same a bit further down the line they may have got a solution. You did make it to 87.237.38.200 which is eve so the port was open, unless I'm much mistaken, going off all the ones we have recorded. Try pings at 30 second intervals, you took 10 over 2 minutes there, which may have been too fast. I'll run some more myself too when I can't connect. Im beginning to think that might not be the issue, I have spoken to a friend in the states who trouble shoots this kind of thing, and its looking more like a local router issue, I also read in another thread about a guy changed his router and got success, but its dropping RST packets from a certain port to 2600, same ip adress lately, and its a local router port 197.168 numbers. This is not a certainty, but its looking more favouable that it all being Tiscalis fault. I need to do some more in-depth looking, and I will post my results and let you all know. (Although I still get capped speeds from Tiscali anyway ;)) Ill keep you posted, as this could be an issue, if so could be a very easy and painless fix.... Watch this space...
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:54:00 - [233] Again with the router issue, I was ruinning a 7 year old D Link 504 and when the new client came out, both my computers wouldn't load eve up, and completely froze my internet connection. A got a free wireless one from Tiscali which cured that. As for the ping test I tried this morning when my connection to eve was ok , and it showed up a 5-10% packet loss at exactly the same spots. so I will do some more if I drop tonight and highlight the change on the Tiscali forum.
Furrycheeky	Posted - 2008.01.08 22:50:00 - [234] Great I am affected by this again. I have had troubles in the past but they just got worse since Christmas No Eve until late. When I get in from work Eve works fine until about 5pm then I get nothing until 11pm. All other surfing /email is fine.
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2008.01.08 23:55:00 - [235] Edited by: Snaith on 08/01/2008 23:55:48 Originally by: Furrycheeky Past 11pm and I can finally log in no hassle, and Tiscali say its not them [:?: No Tiscali have admitted they are traffic shaping which is causing the problem, they don't deny it, unless you talk to some muppet in a call centre in India.
Furrycheeky	Posted - 2008.01.09 17:10:00 - [236] Originally by: Snaith unless you talk to some muppet in a call centre in India. Ah there lies the problem.
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:13:00 - [237] I had a very strange one today, at about 15.15 the only thing I could connect to was Eve and Teamspeak for about an hour, on both my computers. I couldn't get any of my browsers to get any web pages (IE and Firefox on both comps) It was very specific. No antivirus, software updates etc would work, just Eve and TS. To cap it off, when we moved into the evening , I still had connection, then had a soddin' powercut. I feel cursed lol.
Vertex Eisenstein Gallente The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.10 13:11:00 - [238] Edited by: Vertex Eisenstein on 10/01/2008 13:17:52 Edited by: Vertex Eisenstein on 10/01/2008 13:16:00 I just recieved a phonecall from Tiscali. I have been moaning on an ISP complaints site about this problem and it got refered on to someone more senior at Tiscali. This guy has been talking to the second line tech support dept. and basicly advised me to leave and that he would get a MAC code sorted for me. He said that they are working with BT on the issue but he wasnt optimistic of a solution in the near future. He also revealed that the problem is also effecting some flash based applications for online gambling sites. It seems that Tiscali cannot provide a reliable service for Eve, POTBS, COD4, LOTRO, ET:QW, usenet services, some flash applications etc. etc. The issue is even effecting PS3 users on COD4. The LOTRO help forums are full of threads like this one. I for one have had enough and will be getting my MAC code. When you cant get on for 4 days in a row and the ISP is telling you to leave, then it's time to give up. FAO CCP: I know for a fact that you are losing eve subscriptions due to this issue. When I started a new alt I spoke to several people in the new players help channel who were on trial and loved the game but had decided not to subscribe because they couldnt get on at peak times. Other MMO providers and the online gambling people will be in the same position. Why not get together with codemasters and some of the other companies and put an open letter in a trade journal or something? Make them squirm! If you believe that it really is a technical issue then they should have fixed it after over a year of problems. If it is a policy they are not being open about then it is the thin end of the wedge and other ISPs may start blocking ports too. At that point it will start to effect your business. Prehaps it is time to take a stand against ISPs blocking your software? EDIT: Is there a list of ISPs that use tiscali infrastructure? So far I have seen Pipex, Toucan and Nildram mentioned. Any more that people know about?
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:01:00 - [239] Yes we know that Eclipse and Bulldog got swallowed up by them too. This latest aggressive stand and traffic shaping does seem to have coincided with the roll out off BBC and channel 4 players, which I understand the ISP's have been aiming at restricting. Seems we may well have got caught in the crossfire until they decide to be nicer to each other. Even on wikipedia they say "Peer-to-peer (P2P) traffic is particularly troublesome for traffic shaping efforts for ISPs because it is designed to use any and all available bandwidth which impacts QoS-sensitive applications (like online gaming) that use comparatively small amounts of bandwidth" So I don't expect a result, In fact I expect more ISP's to follow suit. Some software companies imply it could be fixed if they so wanted to let the gaming traffic through, though the suggestion is the bit torrent people would then possibly hijack it.
Vertex Eisenstein Gallente The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:03:00 - [240] Edited by: Vertex Eisenstein on 10/01/2008 19:05:34 The ISPs are going to find significant resistance to that sort of traffic shaping if it appears on a large scale. With the games industry now having a global turnover greater than that of the film industry, next gen consoles finally opening up online play to non-PC gamers and the increasing average age of gamers, ISPs will have opposition from not only the producers of games, but the console hardware companies and empowered consumers (rather than kids playing on daddy's connection) as well. I expect that the market will be left to sort it out though: I recently saw an ad for an ISP that actively prioritises gaming data over other traffic. I've never seen that before but I expect to see a lot more of it in the future. A future with two types of ISP: those for web browsing and those that allow everything else at a greater cost is a real possibility. I hope that wont happen though - It would push online games back to the state they were 10 years ago, when they were the preserve of those who were willing to pay a significant premium to play, rather than the democratisation of gaming that has been seen recently. Thanks for all the effort you have put in on those boards Snaith, I fear it is a waste of time though.

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