| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Princess Keela
   |
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:57:00 -
[91]
I appologixze if this double posts ! But 93 people have replyed with support that ecm needs changing ! if CCP doesnt listen to this then i dont know what will make them listen maybe they only listen to miners,mission runners and TECH 2 bpo holders!!!
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:09:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Zixxa
ECM is dead. And I forecasted this after very first patch on Sisi, where Tux "forgot" to add ECM bonus to ECM ships. It is honest to remove all Caldari ECM ships from the game.
It's not dead ffs, its just a hell of alot more specialised!
Sure it needs tweaking but this is as good and as balanced as its ever been, we just need the Scorpion boost!
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
HIdden Canary
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:17:00 -
[93]
Quote:
It's not dead ffs, its just a hell of alot more specialised!
seriously answer me one Question how can i get more specialised ? I HAVE MAXED OUT JAMMING SKILLS ! (BS 5, RECON 5, Signal dispersion 5,Fequency Modulation 5, EW,5 Faction and officer jammers ) only thing i dont have are rigs ! and ive tested them on the Test server ! and they dont improve S**T so how the hell can it be specialised if im top of the jamming tree ?
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:27:00 -
[94]
Well if you truly have all that then you should be of a comparable of not better level than you were in RMR.
I will concede that its the rigs and the SDA's that will make the ship though. You've just got to give it time and wait for the rigs to become a common commodity.
Even without the rigs a Rook with your skills and officer modules is a completely formidable ECM platform. You must be talking almost a 50% chance with all that fitted. Probably a jam strength of around 13-14 with racials? Thats a 50-60% chance to jam a battleship.
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
HIdden Canary
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:37:00 -
[95]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 19:41:13
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 19:39:30
you would think ! but its no where near where it was in RMR ! Even with RIGs ! ECM is too weak now ! even with recon 5 ! my rook cant even keep a ship with 14 signal strenght jammed ! 14 for god sake ! and its the best jammer in game !
welsh wizard do you use jamming ships your self ? because things on paper look nice but in practice it says other wise and just look at the ammount of other people thats behiind it too ? i mean if it was just me i would go far enough screw EW ill fly my other ships! ! BUT ITS NOT JUST MEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yay
|
Christos Hendez
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:45:00 -
[96]
Tux can u please reply to this topic.
It does seem ECM ships have been smacked hard. Or do u want to get ride of ecm ships altogether?
If so what do u propose they become?
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:48:00 -
[97]
Yes, my alt is of a similar level as yourself but I don't have any fancy modules.
What I know is that on my Rook I can fit 2 ECM rigs and 2 SDA II's and achieve a racial ECM strength of a little over 14 points. A Rokh has a sensor strength of 24 - At optimal Rook range thats 14/24 = 0.583 or a 58% chance of a successful jam against that ship.
Have I tried it? Yes, I probably achieved around 1 jam from 2.5 cycles on average. This suggests that there is another factor coming into play other than the straight division. To this day I still don't know what it is.
(Yes I've tried it at close range and smack bang within the middle of my optimal)
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
Commander Wingpop
Dark Twilight Solutions
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:52:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Commander Wingpop on 04/12/2006 20:03:34
Signal Strengh means little theys days as JAmming is chance based ! or a SCorp with 24 or a rook with 32 would perma jam anything lower ! with EASE ! but in practice it doesnt ! And it Certainly would be intresting to hear from tuxford but will never happen !
|
Stein Voorhees
Agony Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:12:00 -
[99]
Dedicated jamming ships;
They put out pitiful DPS. This is now worse if you use ECM mods rather than damage mods.
They have next to no tank. This is now worse if you use ECM mods rather than plates.
They can no longer jam as effectively. If you use damage mods, max out skills and use rigs, you get roughly back to pre-nerf days but as above, you die quicker and put out less damage.
These guys just don't solo and now their role in gangs has been massively reduced in effectiveness.
Tux - was your plan to kill off the ECM ships or just to stop non-ECM ships from fitting multis and being too effective with them?
|
Skutter
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:15:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Skutter on 04/12/2006 20:20:10
The nerf is harsh on specialist ECM ships with a MINIMUM 30% efficiency reduction. Spending the time on the skill training is now simply not worth the effort.
Agree with nerfing non-specialist ships (although why increasing ECCM and module strengths wasn't experimented with first I'm unsure).
There has been no introduction of chance based modifications for Dampners, Tracking Disrupts, Webifiers, Drone activiation, shield/armor tanking or any other specialisation you can mention ... ECM has had chance based nerf and now gets latest nerf as well, wrong imo.
|
|
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:17:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Commander Wingpop
Edited by: Commander Wingpop on 04/12/2006 20:03:34
Signal Strengh means little theys days as JAmming is chance based ! or a SCorp with 24 or a rook with 32 would perma jam anything lower ! with EASE ! but in practice it doesnt ! And it Certainly would be intresting to hear from tuxford but will never happen !
You're looking at the wrong number dude, the ECM ships sensor strength has nothing to do with its ability to jam.
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
Commander Wingpop
Dark Twilight Solutions
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:28:00 -
[102]
I know what i was trying to say was at some point it was like that then they changed it to chance system % as i believe!
|
Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:28:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mar Idoun
In that same blog Tuxford also mentioned that maybe the ECM re-adjustment would encourage people to fit racial jammers. I'm sure if you had Ladar Jammers that Vaga would have been locked down.
Conversely, i've jammed battleships in a Scorpion for multiple, consecutive cycles using the incorrect racial jammer for the ship's race. Luck is still a big part of ECM.
Just a point: Even with racials you can't get to were a NON ECM ship was *pre-nerf* using multis.
|
Sun Tzuk
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:38:00 -
[104]
Quote:
I am aslo a dedicated ECM pilot. Or was... Atm i kinda scared to undock in a ship which
a) cant tank
b) cant deal dmg
c) cant tackle
d) cant really jam anything of the equivalent ship class
The nerf to ECM dedicated ships is too much. If ECM is to remain in its current state dedicated ships need a change. Either buff their ECM bonuses or bite the bullet and change their role.
EDIT:
oh and i forgot i wanted to comment the subject of raical jammers. I do use them. In fact i mostly use them. AS a dedicated ECM pilot i view multispecs as a backup jamming system. My scorps for exmaple genneraly feutre 4-6 racials and 0-2 multispecs. So please dont tell me to fit racilas and everything will be fine. I do. And its not.
/agreed
Ok this is how it worked out... I'll use the rook as an example... ok EW got gimp 50% across the board. A rook gets 20% increased ECM per level. 1 x .5 x 2 x 1.25 = 1.25 So a player flying a rook with 5 level of recon ship + 5 ranks of signal dispersion would have the same effectiveness jamming other ships as a player with 5 ranks of signal dispersion in a regular ship with no EW bonuses did before the last patch. And thats the best EW gets now! Not very impressive imho...
|
HIdden Canary
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:53:00 -
[105]
Yep Ecm is now soooooo impressive sense the Sarcasm !
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:17:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Aramendel on 04/12/2006 22:17:48
Originally by: Sun Tzuk
Ok this is how it worked out... I'll use the rook as an example... ok EW got gimp 50% across the board. A rook gets 20% increased ECM per level. 1 x .5 x 2 x 1.25 = 1.25 So a player flying a rook with 5 level of recon ship + 5 ranks of signal dispersion would have the same effectiveness jamming other ships as a player with 5 ranks of signal dispersion in a regular ship with no EW bonuses did before the last patch. And thats the best EW gets now! Not very impressive imho...
Yes, lets all conventiantly ignore that there is now a 20% lowslot booster for ECM. Fit 2 of those and you get a 40% boost. Add 1 ECM rig and you are with a rook at a +49% boost to ECM - 1% less than pre-kali.
What? Need the lows for an 1600mm plate and an EAN2? I thought ECM ships cannot tank? Do you want to keep the cake and eat it too?
|
Commander LoC
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:26:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Commander LoC on 04/12/2006 22:27:03
how about stfu and read past posts, we do stick the signal amps in lows and rigs arnt available yet and wont be for a short while.. like we've also said in the past things look pretty in paper but when you actually put it in combat its useless. its like its not working on the %.. its like its completely random and going on dice rolls.. ive never been good at dice rolling only dice game i was good at was frustration! |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:44:00 -
[108]
The random feature of ECM sucks, yes, but thats no change at all to RMR. If you want nonrandom effects switch to tracking disruptors or damperners - but also get into situations where your EW system plain out does not work.
Fact is: if you use good ECM lowslot mods (hypnos/t2) in the lows of the ECM ships you get only *minimal* effeciency reductions (> 90% of RMR effeciency).
|
HIdden Canary
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:45:00 -
[109]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 22:50:49
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 22:48:39
Ok look at it this way to evem make Ecm even a little effective you need level 5 BS , level 5 signal disruption, the best named mods, and so on.. but every other BS is good at what it does with the lower levels,I fly both caldari and gal Bs so i know what both are like to fly i have gal only to BS 3 and 700k in drones and my domi would eat the scorp alive with out hesitating.. because the scorp sucks at whats its supposted to be good at even with max skills!! i mean pre kali ive killed domis with my scorp solo and i aagree with making it a support ship by taking the tank away ! but at least make it be able to jam good or what is the point because "failure = Fast death"
SO what your saying is train all the jamming and BS or recon to 5 to make it effective ? then the same should be done with all the rest ravens and domis should throw our P**s poor DPS till they max out missiles/drones and get level 5s in all !
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:58:00 -
[110]
O-kay. Just in case I misunderstand you: you are complaining because your scropion cannot anymore solo kill a dominix, which
- is considered by many people as the best 1v1 BS in the game
- has the weaponsystem which is the least effected by ECM
|
|
|
HIdden Canary
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:01:00 -
[111]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 23:01:13
Originally by: Aramendel
O-kay. Just in case I misunderstand you: you are complaining because your scropion cannot anymore solo kill a dominix, which
- is considered by many people as the best 1v1 BS in the game
- has the weaponsystem which is the least effected by ECM
NO im saying with maxed out skills and best mods and faction jammers it cant jam a crusier ! Like loc said try reading the whole of the forum not just the last few posts before replying !
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:07:00 -
[112]
Originally by: HIdden Canary
NO im saying with maxed out skills and best mods and faction jammers it cant jam a crusier ! Like loc said try reading the whole of the forum not just the last few posts before replying !
OH RLY?
Originally by: HIdden Canary
...I fly both caldari and gal Bs so i know what both are like to fly i have gal only to BS 3 and 700k in drones and my domi would eat the scorp alive with out hesitating.. because the scorp sucks at whats its supposted to be good at even with max skills!! i mean pre kali ive killed domis with my scorp solo...
And the cruiser occurance does not mean anything - it's ECM, sometimes you have bad luck. They only thing which matters is the jamming strength - which is virtually unchanged if you bother to use the lowslot mods.
|
HIdden Canary
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:13:00 -
[113]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 23:13:53
FFS try reading ! I do use low slots !FULL HYPNOS SIGNAL distortion amps !!! and 6 multi specs couldnt jam the cruiser ! before you go use racials i did also!
Iv also used Rigs on Test server! and its the same there with rigs !
Aramendel do you actually fly jamming ships out of intrest (if so what level skills ya got in BS/recon, signal distortion??
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:22:00 -
[114]
Originally by: HIdden Canary
FFS try reading ! I do use low slots !FULL HYPNOS SIGNAL distortion amps !!! and 6 multi specs couldnt jam the cruiser ! before you go use racials i did also!
Try "reading" yourself.
To repeat myself: ECM IS RANDOM
Meaning you will have sometimes something which is called "bad luck".
|
HIdden Canary
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:25:00 -
[115]
do you fly scorps ? or rooks ?
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:34:00 -
[116]
Originally by: HIdden Canary
do you fly scorps ? or rooks ?
Can you read? Can you do math?
|
Davlin Lotze
Raging Destruction
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 00:36:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 05/12/2006 00:38:45
Originally by: Lowa
I kinda agree. It should have been nerfed but right now it became too much.
The nerf could perhaps only apply to non-ew ships and the dedicated ships
gets the full monty as before? Would make more sense imho.
Perhaps even making it so that non-ew ships cant even mount EW modules?
Cheers,
Lowa
Just get a dampening ship and your gtg. IWIN-mobile to the max. Last night I had a domi damped below 7km when two special elite cruiser\dampening ships and a meager dps support gang killed me without me getting a single lock after the first lock(which itself was broken shortly with damping). I think CCP has a burn eden member working on EW :p
|
Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 00:38:00 -
[118]
I understand that a single multi-spec on a non-ECM ship was too powerful. Fine - leave them at RMR strength, increase ECM module CPU requirements by 100% and give EWAR ships (BB, Rook, Falcon, Scorp, Vigil, Stiletto, etc...) a 100% reduction bonus for said modules. If you want to fit multispecs on a Domi, you still can, but it will cost you...
As it stands now, I'm with Trillian: no sense in undocking a Falcon atm... 
LM
Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
|
Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 00:52:00 -
[119]
This thread is going downhill real fast. Which makes me very sad.
ECM dedicated ships need help. Dont turn this into a flamefest, please.
|
Commander Wingpop
Dark Twilight Solutions
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 01:00:00 -
[120]
I Totally agree
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |