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Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Provenance.
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Posted - 2006.12.17 13:58:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 17/12/2006 14:00:23
Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 17/12/2006 13:59:46
Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 17/12/2006 13:58:57
 Quote:
my vaga two days ago in an op had no problem being jammed *multiple* times by a hostile scorpion.
multiple times? How does that imply ECM is effective? A Vagabond, or any other cruiser-level ship, should be jammed to hell and back permanently by a Scorpion and it should have enough ECM modules left to do the same thing to another Vagabond at the same time. If not 3. Your Vagabond only has 2 more sensor strength than a T1 cruiser.
I'm pretty sad, because I wanted to get into ECM, but now practically everyone I speak to tell me that I'm nuts, because it's not worth it, and after reading the posts in this thread, I have to agree.
There isn't much point in playing a support ship if, after sacrificing *all* your survivability and playing a much riskier role because of that, it's still even arguable whether you provide viable support at all.
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2006.12.17 14:17:00 -
[272]
just as a point for ppl to consider here. if you look at the optimal range for most ecm they are quite some range. if ur warping in at ur optimal jamming range which u should be (support ship remember) then how can most ships kill u really quickly as u say unless they're sniper fit which isn't all that common.
u get a cheap ass blackbird at 100km jamming a blastertron or autopest or most ships for that matter and even if they miss a cycle then they don't even get hit while the dmg/tank ships kill the target.
ppl have got used to being able to warp right on top of a target and scram and perma jam them and be safe. that's not how it's supposed to be. warp in at range like jammers are designed for and most of the time ur safe.
DE
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Altai Saker
Omniscient Order
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2006.12.17 14:17:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Trillian Mcmillan
Originally by: Altai Saker
Sounds like a lot of people that got used to ecm being the I-Win button, now that its the I-Sometimes-Win button they are whining...
Gratz Tux, work well done 
Right. Now imagine Noses being nerfed so badly they are only really usefull on the Curse, and even then its debatable. Yes the Pilgrim would have trouble using them too.
So much fun, right?
That would actually be a dream come true for me, nos remove alot of the thinking in this game.
ECM is still usable, and still powerful, whoever said it should be redesigned is right though. The concept of a chance based system just doesn't flow with eve.
http://www.omniscient-order.com/
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August Personage
Caldari
Clarf Inc
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Posted - 2006.12.17 15:05:00 -
[274]
to the people complaining that scorps have no tank and dps: so what? they jam. if you want tanking and dps, go for the raven, it pwns, or the rokh, which pwns, or the drake, which pwns, or the cerberus, which pwns, or the crow, which pwns etc etc etc. catch my drift?
to the people who will flame me for the above statement: yes, i do fly scorps. and no, i have no problem with them. yes i have read all the posts and yes this is an alt.
to the guy who complained a few pages back that his friend got jammed by a non ecm ship but yet was complaining that ecm is imba, two words for you: probability based. perhaps if you didn't start every post you made with "LOL DID YOU READ MY OTHERPOSTS OMG YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T FLY ECM HSIPZ COS U NOW NOTHING" you would have seen the people saying that before me. if you have a problem with ecm being based upon probabilty, then say that instead of a random series of useless anecdotes which prove nothing, followed by "FIX ECM TUX".
(also i now fit, 8 mids, that means 7 racials and 1 sensor booster. 4 lows, 2 sig amps a plate and a distortion amp. before kali, i fit the same, but with 1 extra plate. just incase you were wondering)
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2006.12.17 15:11:00 -
[275]
Originally by: August Personage
to the people complaining that scorps have no tank and dps: so what? they jam. if you want tanking and dps, go for the raven, it pwns, or the rokh, which pwns, or the drake, which pwns, or the cerberus, which pwns, or the crow, which pwns etc etc etc. catch my drift?
to the people who will flame me for the above statement: yes, i do fly scorps. and no, i have no problem with them. yes i have read all the posts and yes this is an alt.
to the guy who complained a few pages back that his friend got jammed by a non ecm ship but yet was complaining that ecm is imba, two words for you: probability based. perhaps if you didn't start every post you made with "LOL DID YOU READ MY OTHERPOSTS OMG YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T FLY ECM HSIPZ COS U NOW NOTHING" you would have seen the people saying that before me. if you have a problem with ecm being based upon probabilty, then say that instead of a random series of useless anecdotes which prove nothing, followed by "FIX ECM TUX".
(also i now fit, 8 mids, that means 7 racials and 1 sensor booster. 4 lows, 2 sig amps a plate and a distortion amp. before kali, i fit the same, but with 1 extra plate. just incase you were wondering)
you nhaven't even read this op have u?
ppl aren't saying they want a tank on the scorp they are saying that they should be able to jam pretty well if they aren't going to have a tank and they are saying ships like the scorp aren't powerful enough in ecm to warrant no tank atm.
DE
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Dreez
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.17 15:16:00 -
[276]
ECM on any ship that does not have ECMstrength bonus should be
a waste of medslot. But ECM used on a ship build for EW, like
scorpion or blackbird, should be suprTme.
That way we wont get anymore Multispecc domis/ishtars, and the
pilots which has trained for EW-specc will finally be usefull.
Bob farted, ASCN burped & then there was a nodecrash.
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2006.12.17 16:27:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Dreez
ECM on any ship that does not have ECMstrength bonus should be
a waste of medslot. But ECM used on a ship build for EW, like
scorpion or blackbird, should be suprTme.
That way we wont get anymore Multispecc domis/ishtars, and the
pilots which has trained for EW-specc will finally be usefull.
that's exactly what has just been implemented. ecm's nerfed hugely and ecm ships bonus's increased. the problem being discussed here is that ecm ships have been nerfed which they shouldn't have been really.
DE
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Sally
Caldari
R.u.S.H.
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.17 18:26:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Trillian Mcmillan
Not very constructive of me but... You dont fly these ships do you? As in skilled for them and use them often.
I routinely fly BB. Its still best EW cruiser. Scorpion is still very valued in fleet fights, in fact after Kali even more so as now its able to reach T2 snipers.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.17 19:03:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran
multiple times? How does that imply ECM is effective? A Vagabond, or any other cruiser-level ship, should be jammed to hell and back permanently by a Scorpion and it should have enough ECM modules left to do the same thing to another Vagabond at the same time. If not 3. Your Vagabond only has 2 more sensor strength than a T1 cruiser.
This is a pretty good example of the twisted mindset here.
Guess what happens when 1 single vaga encounters a single curse or lachesis? Dead recon. Because their EW is near ineffective against it. The universal effeciency of ECM is a MAJOR advantage.
One can only imagine the complaints if ECM had targets where it just does not work, just like the other EW systems...
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Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.17 19:23:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran
multiple times? How does that imply ECM is effective? A Vagabond, or any other cruiser-level ship, should be jammed to hell and back permanently by a Scorpion and it should have enough ECM modules left to do the same thing to another Vagabond at the same time. If not 3. Your Vagabond only has 2 more sensor strength than a T1 cruiser.
This is a pretty good example of the twisted mindset here.
Guess what happens when 1 single vaga encounters a single curse or lachesis? Dead recon. Because their EW is near ineffective against it. The universal effeciency of ECM is a MAJOR advantage.
One can only imagine the complaints if ECM had targets where it just does not work, just like the other EW systems...
ahem he was talking about a vaga vs a scrop situation... thats a BS and not a recon.
And your statment is also an example of a " twisted mindset". ECM is not universally usefull. In fact, since its chance based, its often useless. Now much much more than before and to the point where i no longer fly caldari ewar boats.
The "universal" ecm, the infamous "multispec"... I always saw it as a backup system and never fitted it before i had at least one of each racial. If i dedicate >=6 med slots to something and my ship has multiple bonuses for those modules they should function at least somewhat reliable , right?
Right now they dont. Not even close to reliable.
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.17 19:40:00 -
[281]
Quote:
Nope, but its not the case either. Compare the usefullness and power of ECM to the power of tracking disrupters, dampeners, or (my god!) target painters. See the trend? Before Kali ECM was greatly overpowered compared to other types of EW - no question. Now ECM is just somewhat better in most cases. And dont tell us the tales about how ECM ships are useless. Answer just 1 question: what gang will win in fair fight: 3 megathrons + 1 Scorpion or 4 megathrons? I think the answer is pretty obvious for anyone with a clue.
The 4 megas would ... and it is clearly obvious you dont fly a scorp just from that post ! for one the scorp would be primary just because of what a crap ship it is now ! wouldnt take long to die ! and it cant jam 3 bs if it tryed ! damn mine with maxed out skills cant jam a vaga ! then its a case of more friends and whos got the more skill points !
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.17 20:11:00 -
[282]
Edited by: Aramendel on 17/12/2006 20:12:47
Originally by: Trillian Mcmillan
If i dedicate >=6 med slots to something and my ship has multiple bonuses for those modules they should function at least somewhat reliable , right?
Not vs all targets, no.
Compare ECM vs the other EW systems - *far* higher range and a far smaller amount of weak/ineffective targets.
The other EW ships are not reliable, too. The difference to ECM is that they are "reliable unreliable". When I am in a ship with TD boni I know that I won't do squat against missiles and know that against cruiser (or smaller) sized ACs and blasters I will not see much of an effect. And it won't help me against nos, dampeners, ecm, webs, etc - but I think you get the point. I know where I can rely on my EW system and where not.
Now, when I use ECM I play russian roulette to some extend in every combat. Which sucks. But the problem is: the effect of ECM is plain out too strong to make it reliable. Because then you would have en EW system which works reliable gainst everything vs 3 other systems which work reliable only against a few targets.
The only way for ECM to loose it's randomness is to change it's effect to something else which isn't effective vs everything.
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Dreez
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.17 20:19:00 -
[283]
Increase the bonus for ECM-strength on Scorpion and all other
ships that is build specifically for using EW, and make it a
huge increase aswell.
They also need to nerf ECM-drones because atm, any pilot with
skill for EW-drones will be able to jam any ship using 5 of
those pesky critters.
Targetjamming ECM in all forms, be it drones or modules needs
to be rendered useless on regular ships. Is that to hard
for CCP/Tux to realize ?
We also need an equally effective counter towards missiles
as TDs are against guns, its about time the Devs figured out
a midslot-mod that does exactly that.
So boost ECM-ships, nerf targetjamming-drones & mods, give
us a "TD" for missiles.
Bob farted, ASCN burped & then there was a nodecrash.
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Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.17 21:03:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Aramendel
Now, when I use ECM I play russian roulette to some extend in every combat. Which sucks. But the problem is: the effect of ECM is plain out too strong to make it reliable. Because then you would have en EW system which works reliable gainst everything vs 3 other systems which work reliable only against a few targets.
The only way for ECM to loose it's randomness is to change it's effect to something else which isn't effective vs everything.
Ok..
It was my understanding that cladari are meant to have the most powerfull form of ewar. It seems to be a matter of CCP design. A few thigns point to this, for example:
1. compare the four "basic" ewar ships. The blackbird, the celestis, the arbitrator and the bellicose. I wont get into the bellicose. We all know its... lacking. It deserves a thread of its own. Now the remaining three. We can all agree that as far as ewar goes its ECM>dampeners>TDs. Lets looks at these ships and ignore their ewar component. Without ewar the blackbird is clearly the weakest ship. For arguments sake lets assume they all tank equally well (personally i think the bb bites the bullet here too but this can be argued). Both the celestis and the arbitrator have some dps to speak of. The celestis gets a hybrid dmg bonus and a decent dronebay (40m compared to blackbirds 15m). The arbitrator gets a huge dronebay(75m) and a dmg/hp bonus to its drones effectivly making it into a vexor with an ewar bonus. The balckbird has no dmg bonus and a crap drone bay.
Conclusion: EWAR asaide, the BB is the weakest of these cruisers and the arbitrator is the most powerfull. This is exact relation to the strenght of ewar systems they are meant to carry. The weakest ship gets the most powerfull system and the strongest ship gets the weakest system.
2. The caldari are the only race to get a dedicated EWAR battleship
3. Caldari recons exclusively focus on their ewar system. Other races recons get powerfull secondary ewar system bonuses in addition to their racial system. These being the scramblers on gallente, the nosferatus on amarr and the webbers on minmatar.
From these points i can only conclude that ECm is suppoused to be stronger than other races ewar by the original ccp design which probably blends into some greater balance scheme.
Now if you disagree with this... It is a matter waaaaaaaay beyond the scope of the problem which this thread adresses.
The thread is suppoused to be about balancing certain ships. Not ECM in genreal. ECM was nerfed. ECM ships got a slight boost. In my opinion, as a dedicated ECM pilot, this boost is nowhere near enough and these ships are currently not worth flying.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.17 22:18:00 -
[285]
Edited by: Aramendel on 17/12/2006 22:18:57
1.) Non-ECM EW cruisers get a damage bonus, ECM cruisers get an range bonus. This is a rather significant one - why do you think are scorps used in fleet fights? Because their EW system is the only one which can be used at these distances.
Basically, the lack of (t1) dps bonus of the ECM ships is due to the caldari more range, less damage credo.
2.) And the gallente have the command ship which has the boni for EW. From the background story much points to gallente being a strong EW race, too.
Also, the lack of an EW BS of the other races has been under much debate with the tier 3 BS, since it gave caldari 3 difference "specialities" which go from the frig to the BS lvl while the other races have at best 2 specs on the BS lvl.
3.) This is true. But this only applies to the ecm on caldari recon ships being better than the EW on the other races recon ships. Which it is.
With this line of argumentation the BB has no justification to be better than the other t1 EW cruisers. On the recon lvl the non-caldari EW cruisers keep their (t1 cruiser) effeciency of their EW system and get from the t2 lvl a bonus to an additional EW system. ECM recons get an additional bonus to ecm, which pushes it's effeciency past that of damperners and TDs which only get the bonus from the t1 skill.
-----
Also, there is a very thin line between something being better than its alternatives and being so strong that it is pointless to use anything else. For example take the old gankgeddon. From the background it fit perfectly in the amarr gank & tank credo. Gamebalance wise it made any other dps BS obsolete, though. So it got a nerf. It is still a good ship, but not really superior to other BS.
Making ECM reliably effective with it's current effect would make it the "gankgeddon" of the EW systems.
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Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.17 23:03:00 -
[286]
The point of my post was to show that ECM is stronger than the other ewar systems intentionaly. Im preety sure they meant it to be stronger when they made it.
The cruisers comparison supports this by showing that the bb is far more dependant on its ewar system than the other races ewar ships. Hence it stands to reason it should use a more powerfull form of ewar.
On the command ship topic. Indeed. Gallente use the second most powerfull ewar system. So it might make sence that they would use information warfare links. Still, personally, i dont think it suits them very well. No idea on what might replace it tough should it be changed.
As far as the thin line goes.. not sure what to say.. you belive it to be overpowering.. I do not. I can support this by many many failed cycles and ecm ships i have lost :) as i am sure you can somehow support your claim. Its up to CCP to decide on this. And up to us, perhaps, to point out they may have overlooked something.
Again... I belive ECM is the strongest EWAR system on purpose. Its not an unintentional balance problem. Or wasnt. It has now become so. The whole thing needs more balancing.
Or...
You seem to belive that ECM is a mistake in its very concept not only its effectivness. If this is indeed the case than a complete workover is in order. This is not something i wish to discuss. While this would possibly solve all the ECM problems i think it best to leave such major changes to game designers.
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DuPuy
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Posted - 2006.12.17 23:56:00 -
[287]
Originally by: DarkElf
Edited by: DarkElf on 17/12/2006 12:47:40
Originally by: DuPuy
Or does it want a game wholly focussed about battleship versus battleship...
At the moment it is clearly only a battleship v battleship game...
That is such a load of bull. this game is in no way focussed on bs. in fect all the recons,hacs etc have very powerful weapons and can solo most bs in different ways. bs are being used less and less.
yeah ecm does seem broken and no matter how happy it makes me, it does need sorting but don't exaggerate.
DE
Hmmm.... powerful weapons on caldari recons? What, exactly? two heavy missile launcher 2s? Or would you be fitting the ultra-close range heavy assault launchers on a cloaker?
As for HACs etc... still all look like Pew Pew types to me...
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Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Provenance.
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Posted - 2006.12.18 06:29:00 -
[288]
Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 18/12/2006 06:29:45
Originally by: Aramendel
This is a pretty good example of the twisted mindset here.
Guess what happens when 1 single vaga encounters a single curse or lachesis? Dead recon. Because their EW is near ineffective against it. The universal effeciency of ECM is a MAJOR advantage.
One can only imagine the complaints if ECM had targets where it just does not work, just like the other EW systems...
Twisted mindset? Um, ok. I don't see what's twisted at all about expecting an ECM battleship that has pitiful dps and no tank to be able to jam 2-3 cruisers succesfully.
Do people really want ECM to be completely worthless? What good is a support battleship that can only negate one cruiser, let alone another actual battleship???? And what the heck do Recons vs HACs have to do with anything? Recons are not battleships.
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Alchimista
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Posted - 2006.12.18 14:35:00 -
[289]
Still no official reponse Tux?
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.18 14:48:00 -
[290]
The problem with ECM it doesn't really make sense. In EVE, your target lock is everything - break that and in 95% of cases you can't do any damage at all to your enemy.
In all real-world examples of ECM, jamming of something would never stop you acquiring a target lock unless it was extremely powerful, it would act like a sensor dampener does currently - it would require you to be much closer to your target to filter out the noise.
Which brings us to the real crux of the matter - if you wanted to redesign ECM as it is in EVE, it's a real problem working out how it can do what it does in a consistent predictable manner (i.e. not statistical over a length of time in which a battle can be over).
I don't really have a solution for this. Possibly ECM as it exists should just go, and all the other forms should be boosted to replace it (and bonus' altered etc.), but that doesn't seem right to my mind and probably not to anyone elses.
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.18 15:01:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Trillian Mcmillan
Edited by: Trillian Mcmillan on 17/12/2006 21:29:10
Originally by: Aramendel
Now, when I use ECM I play russian roulette to some extend in every combat. Which sucks. But the problem is: the effect of ECM is plain out too strong to make it reliable. Because then you would have en EW system which works reliable gainst everything vs 3 other systems which work reliable only against a few targets.
The only way for ECM to loose it's randomness is to change it's effect to something else which isn't effective vs everything.
Ok..
It was my understanding that cladari are meant to have the most powerfull form of ewar. It seems to be a matter of CCP design. A few thigns point to this, for example:
1. compare the four "basic" ewar ships. The blackbird, the celestis, the arbitrator and the bellicose. I wont get into the bellicose. We all know its... lacking. It deserves a thread of its own. Now the remaining three. We can all agree that as far as ewar goes its ECM>dampeners>TDs. Lets looks at these ships and ignore their ewar component. Without ewar the blackbird is clearly the weakest ship. For arguments sake lets assume they all tank equally well (personally i think the bb bites the bullet here too but this can be argued). Both the celestis and the arbitrator have some dps to speak of. The celestis gets a hybrid dmg bonus and a decent dronebay (40m). The arbitrator gets a huge dronebay(75m) and a dmg/hp bonus to its drones effectivly making it into a vexor with an ewar bonus. The balckbird has no dmg bonus and no drone bay.
Conclusion: EWAR asaide, the BB is the weakest of these cruisers and the arbitrator is the most powerfull. This is exact relation to the strenght of ewar systems they are meant to carry. The weakest ship gets the most powerfull system and the strongest ship gets the weakest system.
2. The caldari are the only race to get a dedicated EWAR battleship
3. Caldari recons exclusively focus on their ewar system. Other races recons get powerfull secondary ewar system bonuses in addition to their racial system. These being the scramblers on gallente, the nosferatus on amarr and the webbers on minmatar.
From these points i can only conclude that ECm is suppoused to be stronger than other races ewar by the original ccp design which probably blends into some greater balance scheme.
Now if you disagree with this... It is a matter waaaaaaaay beyond the scope of the problem which this thread adresses.
The thread is suppoused to be about balancing certain ships. Not ECM in genreal. ECM was nerfed. ECM ships got a slight boost. In my opinion, as a dedicated ECM pilot, this boost is nowhere near enough and these ships are currently not worth flying.
Put it into words perfectly.
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Stein Voorhees
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.18 15:05:00 -
[292]
Bottom line for THIS thread is;
The ECM nerf worked 'reasonably' well with regards to stopping anyone with a spare mid slot fitting a multispec and getting a silly number of jams with it.
The ECM nerf didn't work with regards to preventing the ships which are dedicated to it from using ECM effectively (and by that I mean a sensible balance between ECM effectiveness, tank and DPS) as their bonuses were a bit shy of where they 'should' be to make them effective fleet ships.
Tux - are you looking at the Caldari ECM hsip bonuses?
The whole discussion about whether ECM should be in the game or not are ripe for a thread of their own.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.18 18:36:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran
Twisted mindset? Um, ok. I don't see what's twisted at all about expecting an ECM battleship that has pitiful dps and no tank to be able to jam 2-3 cruisers succesfully.
Reliably taking out 2-3 cruisers is (from the sensorstrength) about the same as reliably taking out 1-2 BS.
The enemy "looses" 1.5 BS, the side with the scorp "looses" 0.5 BS (reduced dps output of the scorp).
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Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.18 20:00:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Aramendel
Reliably taking out 2-3 cruisers is (from the sensorstrength) about the same as reliably taking out 1-2 BS.
The enemy "looses" 1.5 BS, the side with the scorp "looses" 0.5 BS (reduced dps output of the scorp).
What?
Are you adding values which are completely independant in regards to to the functions they preform then comparing them to another set of added values which are independant of ecah other??? Then assuming the relation you established can be connected to yet antoher set of completely independant random rolls?????
What exactly is this supposed to demonstrate even if it did make any sence?
Or.. to put it bluntly...
WTF!?
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Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2006.12.18 21:00:00 -
[295]
You know I just thought of a great way for ecm to work every ship has a sensor strength and each type of ecm mod has an ecm strength if you put enough ecm on a ship that the ecm strength is greater then the ships sensor strength there jammed oh hang on a sec
And yes cycle jamming sucked but it would probably be easier to fix that problem than the current joke of a system we have now.
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Spacehulk
Caldari
Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2006.12.19 03:07:00 -
[296]
In response to a few of the above posts :
Originally by: DarkElf
ppl have got used to being able to warp right on top of a target and scram and perma jam them and be safe. that's not how it's supposed to be. warp in at range like jammers are designed for and most of the time ur safe.
A jammer should not be close to a target. I never was unless they warp next to me. Remember we are support.
Originally by: Sally
I routinely fly BB. Its still best EW cruiser. Scorpion is still very valued in fleet fights, in fact after Kali even more so as now its able to reach T2 snipers.
Yes and no and it always was that way, depending on if you used racials and what ammo the other person used.
Originally by: Trillian Mcmillan
It was my understanding that cladari are meant to have the most powerfull form of ewar.
Interesting post you have but ECM isn't the most potent. I am into "EWar" and maybe that gives me (and others too) an insight on whats the best way to kill a Caldari ECM ship using another race's skills. Also Caldari tend to have the worst Scan Resolution making them the slowest to lock.
Originally by: Aramendel
Reliably taking out 2-3 cruisers is (from the sensorstrength) about the same as reliably taking out 1-2 BS.
The enemy "looses" 1.5 BS, the side with the scorp "looses" 0.5 BS (reduced dps output of the scorp).
And when a HAC is able to tank and take down a BS its OK cuz its a HAC and someone is selling it for 200 mill, but its still a cruiser ... Oh never mind .. We are talking about how a BS should not be able to jam 2-3 cruisers and why .. Oh nm .. your maths just doesn't make sense.
Freedom Technologies
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.19 09:09:00 -
[297]
Quote:
Interesting post you have but ECM isn't the most potent. I am into "EWar" and maybe that gives me (and others too) an insight on whats the best way to kill a Caldari ECM ship using another race's skills. Also Caldari tend to have the worst Scan Resolution making them the slowest to lock.
If you are into Ewar try the other EW systems. YOu are ECM specced, not Ewar specced. ECM is not the same as ewar, it is only part of it. ECM had and still has major advantages compared to them.
Also, caldari have the highest sensor strength and locking range (and their ECM ships use missiles), so they have the highest native "resistance" against all kinds of EW. You cannot just look at the disadvantages.
Quote:
And when a HAC is able to tank and take down a BS its OK cuz its a HAC and someone is selling it for 200 mill, but its still a cruiser ... Oh never mind .. We are talking about how a BS should not be able to jam 2-3 cruisers and why .. Oh nm .. your maths just doesn't make sense.
Not "a BS". Some BS. Under certain, specific situations. For example, a vaga certainly can kill a ratting BS. A raven with cruises will cause it problems though. As will most BS (and BC) pvp setups.
Generic pvp setups, mind you, not some to specifically counter the vaga.
ECM isn't situation specific to such an extend and has no real "natural" enemies.
As for the maths, a vaga has a sensorstrength of 14. BSs between 17-24. If you can jam 3 * 14 point targets reliably you can jam 2 17-24 point targets reliably instead, too. That should be rather obvious.
Also, something being a BS does not give it any reason to be "uber". BS are not supposed to be solopownmobiles. A frig can take down one under the right conditions.
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Bondage Betty
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Posted - 2006.12.19 09:28:00 -
[298]
Caldari got nerfed! YAY! 
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Crimpp
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Posted - 2006.12.19 11:04:00 -
[299]
This needs to be addressed...yes, this is a blatant bump in an attempt to foster attention on this subject.
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Fortune B
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Posted - 2006.12.19 19:02:00 -
[300]
Hi is there any whare i can read about how ecm works now after kali about the randomness and so.
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