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Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:23:00 - [181] Originally by: Aramendel Well, then wait a month till CCP has the rig situation balanced and throw 2 t1 ECM rigs on it. E vola, same strength as pre-kali. Good time to try out these "uber" damperner & tracking disruptor EW to get some perspective how good ecm was compared to other EW systems (and still is). Meh.. ECM Rigs are not an adequate compensation.. Two ECM Rigs lower the shields on ships that are already paper-thin.. "Congrats! You're even more vulnerable than before! You've lost all your lows and your preferred racial tanking type sucks donkey balls! But hey, you're right back where you started from. That's good ain't it?".. And frankly that "right back where you started from" wasn't all that great to begin with.. ECM ships shoulda been spared the nerfbat.. And yeah, I switched over to Celestis and damps even before Kali.. Much better IMO..
Trillian Mcmillan Cry Me A River Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.06 21:41:00 - [182] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff And yeah, I switched over to Celestis and damps even before Kali.. Much better IMO.. I traded my ECM ships for railboats :) a) expect a river of anti dampener whinage soon (coused by everybody fitting these instead of multispecs on their NON-ewar ships) followed by a nerf to those b) there seems to be a lot of love for caldari snipers Again the ECM dedicated ship nerf was too much. But now i at least have an excuse to tell my gang: "no i wont be flying an ecm ship. i will be flying a ship which kills stuff instead."
Commander Wingpop Dark Twilight Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:40:00 - [183] Quote: ECM is now quite well balanced thats the Funnyest thing ive heard !!! Tonight while at a friends a blob squad tryed to gank him ! in his Raven the Squad consisted of a " Brutix,Thorax,Thorax,Ferox,Vexor the brutix had 1 multi spec and the vexor did too ! LET ME point out non of theys ships are get ECM bonuses ships!!! and they cycle jammed my friends raven 5 times !!!! where 1 scorp with 6 multis couldnt jam him once !!! and we kepted the 6 multis while testing going for over 10mins and only got 2 jams ! where as a non jamming ship within a 4 min engagement kept the raven jammed perm with 2 multis!!! on a non ecm ship!!! WHAT THE F**K is that about ? SERIOUSLY ECM NEEDS TO BE FIXED and made just for ECM dedicated ships !!! that will fix the ecm on every ship problem that was happening before !!! PS: They still died ,
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:45:00 - [184] Originally by: Commander Wingpop thats the Funnyest thing ive heard !!! Tonight while at a friends a blob squad tryed to gank him ! in his Raven the Squad consisted of a " Brutix,Thorax,Thorax,Ferox,Vexor the brutix had 1 multi spec and the vexor did too ! LET ME point out non of theys ships are get ECM bonuses ships!!! and they cycle jammed my friends raven 5 times !!!! where 1 scorp with 6 multis couldnt jam him once !!! and we kepted the 6 multis while testing going for over 10mins and only got 2 jams ! where as a non jamming ship within a 4 min engagement kept the raven jammed perm with 2 multis!!! on a non ecm ship!!! WHAT THE F**K is that about ? SERIOUSLY ECM NEEDS TO BE FIXED and made just for ECM dedicated ships !!! that will fix the ecm on every ship problem that was happening before !!! PS: They still died , Weren't you complaining about not being able to jam a single ship with a falcon/rook and faction jammers before? Now your saying 2 multispec jammers on a ship without ECM bonuses jammed a raven 5 cycles in a row? Huh... Sounds like ECM is still pretty damn powerful.
Commander Wingpop Dark Twilight Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:52:00 - [185] Edited by: Commander Wingpop on 06/12/2006 22:55:16 Edited by: Commander Wingpop on 06/12/2006 22:52:18 NO what im saying is ECM at this point is Messed up big time !!!!!! what im sayign is dedicated ECM ships are crap !!! there bonus means nothin !!! and the nerf of non ECM ships didnt do the job ! it only made the people that specialize and ships designed to jam TOtally useless !!! what i was trying to say was what tuxford said about why the nerf happen ! to take ECM off everyone !! but tonights little party just shows it aint ! and if you flew a ECM dedicated ship like most who have replyed you would see how they suck now right now !!! its like a domi gettign no bonus to drones !
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:25:00 - [186] Originally by: Commander Wingpop NO what im saying is ECM at this point is Messed up big time !!!!!! what im sayign is dedicated ECM ships are crap !!! there bonus means nothin !!! and the nerf of non ECM ships didnt do the job ! it only made the people that specialize and ships designed to jam TOtally useless !!! what i was trying to say was what tuxford said about why the nerf happen ! to take ECM off everyone !! but tonights little party just shows it aint ! and if you flew a ECM dedicated ship like most who have replyed you would see how they suck now right now !!! its like a domi gettign no bonus to drones ! Honestly if you think its somehow bugged then bug report it. Though I'm guessing its working as intended. As far as we know nothing in the ECM formula was changed other than the base strength and bonuses which shouldn't affect the way jams are decided. If a couple multispecs are still nearly perma-jamming a Raven, then the ECM nerf needs to be taken a step farther since it obviously isn't achieving the desired affect making ECM a nearly useless mod on non-ECM ships.
HIdden Canary	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:40:00 - [187] The Nerf to is not working as it should be ! its weaken ships liek the scorp and rook and so on that are suffering from the nerf why have a bonus to the thing when a t1 cruiser can keep a raven jammed perm ? Ecm ships are usless as it stands ! they dont do what there bonus intends them too.Support ship that cant support them selfs ! The only way to fix ECm is to make it only ECM special ships just liek the covert ops cloak is to the covert ops ! or have a high risk putting them on a non ecm ship ! simple as ! i mean whats the point in buying a scorp with no DPS .. no TANK ,,, when you can just buy a domi and still use jammers from the sounds of it ?you have DPS and a insane tank and still jam ?
Commander LoC	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:56:00 - [188] Yeah i agree, ECM shouldnt be working on rubbish ships, especially t1 multispecs.. its still all based on a roll of a dice.. the statistics on paper are complete bull$h1t. Only jamming ships should be able to use jammers efficently without it being a dice roll.. dont mind a rubbish ship using jammers but it seems rubbish ships seems to have the same chance as a ecm specialised ship does of jamming things.. completely random.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:59:00 - [189] Originally by: HIdden Canary i mean whats the point in buying a scorp with no DPS .. no TANK ,,, when you can just buy a domi and still use jammers from the sounds of it ?you have DPS and a insane tank and still jam ? Unless there is some kind of bug in the jamming code the Scorp will have a much better chance of jamming a ship due to the higher ECM strength and higher number of jammers it can fit. If the Domi is still too good of a jamming ship then ECM needs to be nerfed further.
HIdden Canary	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:13:00 - [190] Ecm does need nerfing but not on ECM ships ! ECm ships need boosting or ECm needs to be made just for ECm ships simple as !

Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:20:00 - [191] Personally I'd say that ECM as it is now needs to be removed completely. Sensor damps need to be split into two different modules: one for only reducing targeting range and another for only reducing targeting speed. To counter these ECCM should give a bonus to only targeting range and sensor boosters should only give a bonus to targeting speed. ECM as it stands is overpowered regardless of its chance of hitting. Being taken out of a fight for 20 seconds is simply too powerful of an effect for 1 single module to be capable of. Change the effect, not the chance.
HIdden Canary	Posted - 2006.12.07 05:26:00 - [192] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Personally I'd say that ECM as it is now needs to be removed completely. Sensor damps need to be split into two different modules: one for only reducing targeting range and another for only reducing targeting speed. To counter these ECCM should give a bonus to only targeting range and sensor boosters should only give a bonus to targeting speed. ECM as it stands is overpowered regardless of its chance of hitting. Being taken out of a fight for 20 seconds is simply too powerful of an effect for 1 single module to be capable of. Change the effect, not the chance. No offense and in the nicest possible way but you need tking out of the game in my opinion ! one thing i have to say is i agree the scorp needs a increase but as for the rook it seems ok as it is ! isnt overpowered or under to be honest its just the BS that needs a increase because its way below all the other BS in game ! and sucks !!!
Alchimista	Posted - 2006.12.07 07:44:00 - [193] Edited by: Alchimista on 07/12/2006 07:46:41 Edited by: Alchimista on 07/12/2006 07:45:24 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Personally I'd say that ECM as it is now needs to be removed completely. Sensor damps need to be split into two different modules: one for only reducing targeting range and another for only reducing targeting speed. To counter these ECCM should give a bonus to only targeting range and sensor boosters should only give a bonus to targeting speed. ECM as it stands is overpowered regardless of its chance of hitting. Being taken out of a fight for 20 seconds is simply too powerful of an effect for 1 single module to be capable of. Change the effect, not the chance. ECM doesnt work all the time (now it's a miracle when it does).....Dampners always do and you may obtain the same result as if you were permajammed, but you can fit a dampner in any kind of ship that can also use drones, tank, have an high DPS. Again we are talking about general ECM, but still missing the point. SHIPS! ECM ships can JUST jamm (when it works)....when it doesnt they are dead, and now they are 90% getting blew up. Simple
Stein Voorhees Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.07 08:39:00 - [194] Two more pages to go until we summon Tuxford. Keep at it everyone
HIdden Canary	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:15:00 - [195] narr hes prob busy working on new content instead of fixing the current issues lol ! new vids and so on !
Durik Vespid	Posted - 2006.12.08 02:52:00 - [196] Anyone want to buy a Scorpion??? Thanks CCP
DuPuy	Posted - 2006.12.08 03:01:00 - [197] Hmmm.... The volume of sales of Scorpions, Rooks and Falcons seem to have slowed... Prices will probably follow... A few weeks ago I would have been happy to see a drop in price... Now, I'm looking at the Falcon and Rook sitting still in my hangar, generating nothing but lag... and think perhaps I'd better sell now before the price collapses!!!
Stein Voorhees Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.08 08:59:00 - [198] Will be interesting to see what does happen with prices. If they drop low enough then it will probably make more sense to go out in Rooks as they become that much more expendable. Probably goes for the whole Griffin, BB, Falcon/Rook, Scorp line. It's a shame that the nerf really did make these 'One-trick pony' ships less effective . I'm interested to see if the nerf had it's intended effect of removing ECM from ships with a spare mid slot. Anyone?
Merchantigus Minmatar Riot Zone	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:49:00 - [199] Edited by: Merchantigus on 08/12/2006 10:53:36 Edited by: Merchantigus on 08/12/2006 10:51:51 :( was looking forward to running an ew ship. guess i wont be doing it now :/ maybe they will notice it and fix it. if you guys manage to yell loud enough maybe a real problem will catch their eye for once :) i might suggest popping something up in general as even people with completly retarded *****fest threads tend to get noticed and get their way there. this is an actual problem should get some attention considering some of the "ideas" i've seen get love recently. This would be like if when they changed drones around they forgot to add in the skills to take them back up to strength again :/ I realy like the idea of the stealth bonus thing applying to ew. always thought it should of been like that anyway. would also love to see things go back to the way they where pre rmr. in games with dice rolls running the system it's fine but in eve not a single other thing has a random chance. keep it up guys. maybe by the time i get my skills up high enough on my new char he'll actually be able to do something :D "When still up after 30 hours you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm."
Trillian Mcmillan Cry Me A River Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:57:00 - [200] Originally by: Merchantigus keep it up guys. maybe by the time i get my skills up high enough on my new char he'll actually be able to do something :D I would seriously suggest switching to rails or missiles as far as your training goes. It seems the majority of EVE hates powerfull EWAR of any form and prefer focusing on various way to deal and tank dmg. YAY! Sadly enough.. CCP seems to have given in to thier desiers.

HIdden Canary	Posted - 2006.12.08 19:57:00 - [201] FOr the min i wouldnt bother till CCP listen !
Zebler Four Horsemen	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:39:00 - [202] EW does appear to be overly nerfed atm for the dedicated EW ships. Imo, dedicated ships should be able to get back to their pre Kail strengths. They were not overpowered before Kali, the issue was that everyone was fitting jammers. Kali has fixed this, but the ship bonuses for the dedicated EW boats are not high enough. I've parked up my EW ships. I did some testing on hostiles, and its just not worth it. You get FAR better results from a couple of damps, then you do from 6 T2 Multis.
Sol Mortis Caldari Terminal Velocity Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 23:22:00 - [203] I fly a rook, with skills being recon: 4, signal dispersion: 4, all other ECM skills are 4. I certainly haven't maxed out my ECM skills, but they are quite high. I've only had my rook for a little under three months, and I have a couple scorps and countless blackbirds scattered all over. All of these ships are now worthless to me. I am sick of reading posts from characters who have never flown a Blackbird, Scorpion, Rook, or Falcon fitted for Ewar. These people go out in their Domis and luck-jam every so often with a multi thinking "oh, so it must be this easy in an Ewar ship" ignoring the fact that an ewar ship lacks a decent tank or any means of inflicting damage. Flying electronic warfare is one of the most nerve-wracking experiences in the game, as it is the only chance-governed role in the game. Flying in a rook is high stakes; with the cost of a fitted ship often exceeding 200mil, the durability of an egg, and the only defense (and offense) working ~40% of the time at best. Jamming was already like playing Russian Roulette only with the gun pointed at somebody else, but at least it was a .38 caliber revolver. Now it is like Russian Roulette with a cap gun. Here is a challenge to all the trolls who have never flown an ewar ship. Take your favorite ship, whatever it may be, and fit only weapons onto it. No tank, no dampers, no ecm, just empty mids and lows. Now fly that ship and understand what it feels like for you offense to be your only defense. Now imagine flying this same setup, only halve your dps, and your shots only hit about 50% of the time. Feel our pain. I spent half the frelling summer training up for the !@#$%^& Rook and now it is a roid with engines.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2006.12.08 23:33:00 - [204] Originally by: Sol Mortis I spent half the frelling summer training up for the !@#$%^& Rook and now it is a roid with engines. Not true.. 'Roids are more effective and tougher..
Commander Wingpop Dark Twilight Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.09 00:07:00 - [205] Originally by: Sol Mortis I fly a rook, with skills being recon: 4, signal dispersion: 4, all other ECM skills are 4. I certainly haven't maxed out my ECM skills, but they are quite high. I've only had my rook for a little under three months, and I have a couple scorps and countless blackbirds scattered all over. All of these ships are now worthless to me. I am sick of reading posts from characters who have never flown a Blackbird, Scorpion, Rook, or Falcon fitted for Ewar. These people go out in their Domis and luck-jam every so often with a multi thinking "oh, so it must be this easy in an Ewar ship" ignoring the fact that an ewar ship lacks a decent tank or any means of inflicting damage. Flying electronic warfare is one of the most nerve-wracking experiences in the game, as it is the only chance-governed role in the game. Flying in a rook is high stakes; with the cost of a fitted ship often exceeding 200mil, the durability of an egg, and the only defense (and offense) working ~40% of the time at best. Jamming was already like playing Russian Roulette only with the gun pointed at somebody else, but at least it was a .38 caliber revolver. Now it is like Russian Roulette with a cap gun. Here is a challenge to all the trolls who have never flown an ewar ship. Take your favorite ship, whatever it may be, and fit only weapons onto it. No tank, no dampers, no ecm, just empty mids and lows. Now fly that ship and understand what it feels like for you offense to be your only defense. Now imagine flying this same setup, only halve your dps, and your shots only hit about 50% of the time. Feel our pain. I spent half the frelling summer training up for the !@#$%^& Rook and now it is a roid with engines. I couldn't of said it better my self. HATS OF TOO U DUDE !!!!
Commander LoC	Posted - 2006.12.09 00:13:00 - [206] Sol Mortis, i totally agree. But guess what.. were still gonna get some idiot saying omg fill your lows with signal amps and buy some rigs.. then youll get some other noob bulls*itting saying i was in my rook jammed 6 targets with it.. there isnt a problem when hes probabaly specialised in amarrian stuff.. but yeah i totally agree with what ya said :)
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.09 02:17:00 - [207] Originally by: Sol Mortis Here is a challenge to all the trolls who have never flown an ewar ship. Take your favorite ship, whatever it may be, and fit only weapons onto it. No tank, no dampers, no ecm, just empty mids and lows. Now fly that ship and understand what it feels like for you offense to be your only defense. Now imagine flying this same setup, only halve your dps, and your shots only hit about 50% of the time. Feel our pain. Maybe you should try out the other ewar ships. No, ECM is not the same thing as ewar. Try an arbi and see that an ac rupture as no problems at all to kill you even with multiple TDs on it. Fly a celestis and meet a frigate gang which does not care if you dampen them. Fly a bellicose and ask yourself whatever twisted logic caused CCP to classify target painters as ewar. Try to see the whole situation instead instead of wailing in your small room why ECM was brought back to the mortal plane.
HIdden Canary	Posted - 2006.12.09 04:00:00 - [208] Speaking of Trolls !!
Justin Marr Evisceration.	Posted - 2006.12.09 04:17:00 - [209] Grr, dedicated ECM ships are useless. To ask us to sacrifice some of our survivablitiy in a 200 mill ship in order to gain a 16% strength to ecm...is outrageous. How 'bout we ask you to give up a high slot to increase your dampner strength? Get a clue. Ignorance is Curable, Stupidity is Forever.
Alchimista	Posted - 2006.12.09 10:11:00 - [210] Originally by: Sol Mortis I fly a rook, with skills being recon: 4, signal dispersion: 4, all other ECM skills are 4. I certainly haven't maxed out my ECM skills, but they are quite high. I've only had my rook for a little under three months, and I have a couple scorps and countless blackbirds scattered all over. All of these ships are now worthless to me. I am sick of reading posts from characters who have never flown a Blackbird, Scorpion, Rook, or Falcon fitted for Ewar. These people go out in their Domis and luck-jam every so often with a multi thinking "oh, so it must be this easy in an Ewar ship" ignoring the fact that an ewar ship lacks a decent tank or any means of inflicting damage. Flying electronic warfare is one of the most nerve-wracking experiences in the game, as it is the only chance-governed role in the game. Flying in a rook is high stakes; with the cost of a fitted ship often exceeding 200mil, the durability of an egg, and the only defense (and offense) working ~40% of the time at best. Jamming was already like playing Russian Roulette only with the gun pointed at somebody else, but at least it was a .38 caliber revolver. Now it is like Russian Roulette with a cap gun. Here is a challenge to all the trolls who have never flown an ewar ship. Take your favorite ship, whatever it may be, and fit only weapons onto it. No tank, no dampers, no ecm, just empty mids and lows. Now fly that ship and understand what it feels like for you offense to be your only defense. Now imagine flying this same setup, only halve your dps, and your shots only hit about 50% of the time. Feel our pain. I spent half the frelling summer training up for the !@#$%^& Rook and now it is a roid with engines. Sunto eccellente



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