where did i avoid it? he claimed there was no demand in this feature and as such what was the value. his question is irrelevant since there quite obviously is a demand for it.

i demonstrated there was value in it, because there is a demand for it. i quite literally answered his question.

characters like mine aren't rare on the bazaar. most people already have them, you don't need to get all of your alliance new characters, just the new characters themselves. looking at the PCU - how many new characters do you think that really is?

the demand is nowhere near as high as i think you think it is.

I didn-¦t claim this, i ask why do you?

as i pointed out earlier, it's as if all the stupid is contained on eve-o as everywhere else is nowhere near as negative about this change.

So obvious that he's a Dev alt. Why else would a regular pilot defend this atrocious feature throughout the entire 150+ pages of this thread.

it was the OPENING LINE of your post.

this is literally no different to the situation we have now.

Yes, of course, all the stupid is contained on eve-o. Solid arguments you've got there. Place continue with the noise.

ok why not:





Something that is obsolete ias not needed - your statement

Every year the game has existed the new player has had to compete at a larger and larger skill point disadvantage. It is only right that ccp would give new players more options to deal with this disadvantage.

This I agree with 100%, however paying more RL cash on top of a subscription to get enough SPs to compete is going to leave a nasty taste for a lot of new guys, that's how many will perceive this.

they aren't paying more RL cash, though.

they can either pay for 10 months SP now, or pay for 10 months sp one month at a time and accumulate it over 10 months.

the total paid is the same, as is the amount of SP.

scratch that, the "extra" you pay will be the cost of extractors. which remains to be seen...

[...]

I do not understand you point about the bazarr. If new player A does not buy a character from the bazarr but player B does then player A will not be as competitive as player B.

[...]

they aren't paying more RL cash, though.

they can either pay for 10 months SP now, or pay for 10 months sp one month at a time and accumulate it over 10 months.

the total paid is the same, as is the amount of SP.

scratch that, the "extra" you pay will be the cost of extractors. which remains to be seen...

how nice they are to give ccp the money for maybe a year as soon as they arrive ... money ccp would have to wait soooo long until they get their hands on it (what a shame, isn-¦t it?).

a short term cynical cash grab.

Actually it does change a lot in new player experience. After this, a player starting the game will be unable to compete not only with older players but also with those of his peers that bought SP. So he will receive a very clear message: first pay for the sub, then grid/pay for the ISK and finally pay for the progress (or be left behind). There is a major difference from character bazaar here. A player with say 2-4m SP isn't going to engage in activities targeted by a 30m SP char bough off the bazaar. But he will meet players of similar age that performs better than him, because, for example, they bought 1.2m SP in core skills. After this change retention in new subs will drop.

[funfact; this isn't the only place for feedback.

Simply ty sp generation non-linear to character age if on a payed account - the older the char gets - the lower the generation - newer players catching up - problem solved

Dave Stark, you had my answer. And you still have not proven my argument wrong.



It is the place where this discussion is taking place. I wish you would back up your claim against my argument here, in a dialectiacal way.

This I agree with 100%, however paying more RL cash on top of a subscription to get enough SPs to compete is going to leave a nasty taste for a lot of new guys, that's how many will perceive this. Far better to remove learning implants and max attributes and scale down training time modifiers on core skills to compensate the ever growing distance towards end game stuffs. If CCP want to bring new guys into the game quicker they'd do this, if they just want a desperate cash grab, they skim brokerage fees for our unwanted SPs...

Ehmmmmm..... that's already the case, go check the time vs. benefit of lvl V skills.

what claim?

I would also expect several ISK-trillionaires and also the major alliances to actively try to influence the price, either for ISK-gain or (in the alliances case) to cheaply offer SP-packs to their members.

Sorry, but it is up to you to follow the thread. If you can not keep track of the discourse, my suggestion would be to wind down your posting activity. I wish for quality instead of quantity when taking place in an argument.

OK, I am still catching up, but you asked nicely.

There have been a few constants in Eve. Real-time for skill training and industry was one of them. Oh you can buy the item/ship and jump ahead but someone played that real time price. Same goes for the Character Bazaar. You may not have paid the time but someone did, with plex or cold hard cash.

So CCP is looking at replacing it and who loses? On the surface? Nobody. We strip older characters or farmed alts and use them to fuel the newer ones. No loss, just out with the old, supercharge the new. But that is the thing.

'Stripping the old' but do you honestly think most of the skill points will go to NEW players? That it will increase retention or just make more alts of the vets? Is an increase in subs really a good thing if a lot of them are brood mares existing only to have their brains harvested on a regular basis . . . full of +5's and never ever undocking into space? Will that give us more content? Or will it just be numbers on some ledger?

Will new players coming in look and see the rich instaboosting themselves into better ships and leaving the normal subscription player behind in the dust? Would you play a game like that where it was obviously a game of haves and have-nots and you were probably one of the have-nots? Or would you pour your own money in and hope it was enough to keep up?

I sit in Rookie Help Chat and listen to new players trying to figure out how to play for free. How to earn that 1.2 bill within 30 days. Those types, will they stay if I tell them that not only is it unlikely but that they will have to pay extra to be decent at the game. If they listen and do pay to be able to fly . . . say an incursion or a null rat ship . . . in the first week then they will be well on the road to playing for free, right? Since increased demand for those elusive PLEX will have no effect on the market.

A lot of people are saying that this is fine since it will not effect them or maybe they can use it to rearrange their own skills, clean up that shameful mining V. I just hope they are very space rich or already used to paying subscriptions. I am in the latter category.

I'll still be here but IF this goes through I will be a bit more bitter and somewhat disappointed with what the game has become.

Pay to win? no, but what about Pay to keep up

m

erm. 12 month subscriptions are already a thing.

Wow, Dave. You stepping down to Gevlon Goblins and Lucas Kell's categories.... not a compliment though.

Dave Stark

If we strip away anything virtual from the game we have two constants in play, Time and Money

A legacy character is a snapshot in time, whether 12 years ago or 6 months ago even when unsubbed its frozen in time but in no way can it be manipulated. You can add time to it but it can never be reversed. There is no deconstruction of its timeline, It is a part of the ever evolving universe of eve from a conceptual point of origin.

Now comes a fresh approach, you now want to be able to reverse engineer the timeline. You now want to be able to create elite characters from fragments of time. The convergeance of multiple time streams to manipulate this creation at speed.

The legacy approach has a one off monetary payement, the Hybrid need feeding to progress its ever increasing need for time.

EDIT: thats a different mechanic i believe - i refer to generall / overall sp generation speed not bound to a specific skill or its level