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CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13389	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:00:16 - [1] - Quote Hello one and all! We are planning a big set of ship and module updates for this Winter, including 13 new ships, module tiericide and much more. This thread will introduce 4 of the new ships, a new line of Empire Navy Ewar Frigates. These ships are designed to use their racial ewar bonuses (primary ewar for Amarr and Caldari, secondary for Gallente and Minmatar) in unusual ways, skewed towards solo and microgang combat. Overall we don't expect these ships to eclipse Electronic Attack Frigates for fleet support roles, but the combination of ewar with significant frigate damage puts them into their own category. These ships will be available in all standard combat LP stores for their respective factions. Crucifier Navy Issue Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Weapon Disruptor effectiveness Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to Weapon Disruptor optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to Weapon Disruptor activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 2 Turret 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 42 PWG, 180 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 375 / 600 / 525 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 500 / 250s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 340 / 3.35 / 1,064,000 / 5 / 4.94s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 20 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64km / 640 / 5 Sensor strength: 14 Radar Signature radius: 38 Griffin Navy Issue Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 20% bonus to ECM strength Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to ECM Jammer activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 Maulus Navy Issue Gallente Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Drone tracking and hitpoints 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Distuptors) Misc Bonus: +1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Distuptors) Slot layout: 2 H, 3 M, 4 L, 2 Turret 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 35 PWG, 150 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 450 / 525 / 600 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 330 / 165s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.35 / 1,063,000 / 5 / 4.94s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km / 620 / 5 Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric Signature radius: 42 Vigil Fleet Issue Minmatar Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion velocity 25% bonus to explosive missile damage, 20% bonus to em, thermal and kinetic missile damage Misc Bonus: +50% Stasis Webifier range Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 1 Turret, 2 Launchers 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 38 PWG, 190 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 525 / 525 / 425 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 300 / 150s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.2 / 1,080,000 / 5 / 4.79s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 660 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar Signature radius: 34 Let us know what you think! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13389	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:02:14 - [2] - Quote Reserved Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

Destoya Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 525	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:08:43 - [3] - Quote Do you expect these to cost about the same as their combat counterparts (slicer comet etc)?

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13390	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:10:43 - [4] - Quote Destoya wrote: Do you expect these to cost about the same as their combat counterparts (slicer comet etc)? I'd expect them to fall in the same general ballpark, yup. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

Gradur Dohr Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion 41	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:13:02 - [5] - Quote this maulus already need a nerf
Erin Sluuk Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:14:32 - [6] - Quote Tier II reactive armor hardener like y'all said when?
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1137	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:15:33 - [7] - Quote man, not more recon bonuses :\ and why do I want +1 scram strength?
Athryn Bellee SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 58	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:18:10 - [8] - Quote Thanks Fozzie. These are great.
Liam Inkuras AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 1613	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:18:14 - [9] - Quote CCP Turbo Dinosaur must love the Griffin Navy Issue Edit: Holy balls these are going to be fun I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Travis Uchonela Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:22:36 - [10] - Quote I don't know. I mean some of this is going to be fun, but that Maulus looks too powerful. Also not sure I love these bonuses on t1 hulls, the Navy Vigil seems like it will step on the Hyena's toes big time.

Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 137	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:23:29 - [11] - Quote Don't get me wrong, I love more ships. Yet, I have to wonder? There is so much more even on the T1 side of ships and such that need focus, why bring these out. I see tons of people fly say X ship over Y and Z (Looking at Sabber vs others ships in it's class and many other little odd ones. CCP has the stats). Amarr and Caldari have more Ewar ships than Gallante and Minnie. Plus their ewar is much more effective at combat control over another players ship. ---These ships are fine, but Fozzie, we need the information on the changes to EWAR as well. ---This is one of the peas in the pod, with ewar rebalance being the other pea. xoxo Amarisen Gream
Charlotte Inty Tax 'n' stuff 1	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:25:12 - [12] - Quote "+1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers" Your stabbed days are over boys.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1216	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:25:38 - [13] - Quote Liam Inkuras wrote: CCP Turbo Dinosaur must love the Griffin Navy Issue Edit: Holy balls these are going to be fun nice too have a hybrid caldari navy ship, maybe osprey could go this way instead of trying too compete with so many caracals and gila/ orthrus, some weird combos here, maybe tone done the damage a little T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Hans Krieger Malum Industria Adaptation. 1	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:25:44 - [14] - Quote Now you just need to do a mid-day patch putting gecko BPOs up on jita market and the week of endless tears will be complete. Nice changes. This provides an opportunity for newer players to get exposed to racial EWAR earlier as opposed to training frigate V + support skills and forgetting about that tree. Don't get discouraged by the redditboi 18yr old millennial rage EDIT: Just don't make these stupid OP. It's one thing to give them something booshy and powerful and it's another to take it away.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1216	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:30:13 - [15] - Quote any chance you will finally take the nerfbat to T3 cruisers in the winter patch? .. its sooo.. long overdue T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Nou Mene Out of Focus Odin's Call 11	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:30:32 - [16] - Quote Travis Uchonela wrote: I don't know. I mean some of this is going to be fun, but that Maulus looks too powerful. Also not sure I love these bonuses on t1 hulls, the Navy Vigil seems like it will step on the Hyena's toes big time. only 50% web range.... no much fleet use.. i like them, point strength is great
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1216	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:31:43 - [17] - Quote i can imagine how much people will hate a dps blaster griffin in small FW sites though, maybe a counter too the OP T3 dessies. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1137	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:35:00 - [18] - Quote Harvey James wrote: i can imagine how much people will hate a dps blaster griffin in small FW sites though, maybe a counter too the OP T3 dessies. except it's also a counter to every ship in the game, aka overpowered. when's that ecm nerf happening?
Selto Black Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno 7	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:35:09 - [19] - Quote Ho boy! Time to bust out the spreadsheets! Theory crafting these is gonna be fun for the T3dd group.
ArmyOfMe Hull Breach. Outnumbered. 476	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:38:19 - [20] - Quote Yay, more ecm ships And yes, if you think im negative towards a lot of the things you guys have been doing this year, then you are indeed correct. Now first of all, fix ecm first, then introduce the new ecm ship. Dont sit back for another 10+ years before doing something to ecm. QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken

Bolur Freir Rubella Solaris Test Alliance Please Ignore 18	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:39:35 - [21] - Quote A scram kiting drone boat, that is super OP.
Nika NOisER Method Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:40:18 - [22] - Quote pls, rename this game - "FrigoDestr Online"
Fifty Mullets State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:41:28 - [23] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff What is the intended meaning of this line? Is it an 85% bonus to ECM range and falloff with a side of confusing double negative? Or is this ship going to have an effective ECM range of 6.45+7.2?
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1137	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:42:58 - [24] - Quote Fifty Mullets wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff What is the intended meaning of this line? Is it an 85% bonus to ECM range and falloff with a side of confusing double negative? Or is this ship going to have an effective ECM range of 6.45+7.2? the latter
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1216	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:43:14 - [25] - Quote i don't really see the point of these ships at all, i mean what do they add too the game? .. its like saying lets add ecm too a merlin.. just whats the point? .. why not spend the time fixing T3 cruisers and dessies instead... T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Anthar Thebess 1348	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:46:05 - [26] - Quote What about pirate versions ? Cmon , pirate LP stores need some love. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Genghis Tron Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 32	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:46:18 - [27] - Quote I love me some ewar, but even I'm curious what need these ships fit... are there other things that could benefit attention? I would think so.. That Maulus needs a nerf right off the bat though. 5m3 drone bay to start. BOOM SHAKALAKA
Leisha Miranen The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 14	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:46:25 - [28] - Quote woooo new ship!
Hahnid Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 2	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:48:20 - [29] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Let us know what you think! That's what I think about the changes and ewar in general! So why do Minnies get web range, but Amarr no neut range? Years ago I thought of ewar something like this T1 Ewar (use for tactical advantage): Amarr - Tracking Disruption Minmatar - Target Painting Gallente - Sensor Dampening Caldari - ECM (with no range bonus, less strength or less midslots) T2 Ewar (use for disabling ships): Amarr - Energy Neutralizer Minmatar - Web (range) Gallente - Scramble (range) Caldari - ECM (range and strength) Geddon has neutrange? Caldari has the Scorpion? What's with Minmatar and Gallente? Dragoon has neutrange, too? Does this make sense? Do you get what I try to imply? So many questions, I know
Guillame Herschel Quantum Cats Syndicate Spaceship Bebop 73	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:48:22 - [30] - Quote BLIFFINS!

Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition. 1839	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:52:33 - [31] - Quote vigil and maulus look cool not sure about the crucifier, weapon disruption isn't really all that much of a thing. might change with the missile disruption (i assume the bonus applies to those aswell?) good to see that the griffin comes with a built in nerf. all in all, more ewar is not exactly what the game needs. i'd rather see ECM and damps fixed before the introduction of new specialised hulls.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1818	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:53:19 - [32] - Quote "I think I will take twelve Maulus Navy Issues, please." Death to all Relic Ninja's! Some exciting and interesting looking fits. Looks to be a good way to shake up the FW meta. Not that I am into that, but new ships which are accessible to younger players and offer an interesting approach seem like a good thing. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2172	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:53:30 - [33] - Quote The ecm range is stupid and so is that Maulus - has the garmur taught you nothing? Sigh.
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 107	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:57:30 - [34] - Quote Heated web or scram is already higher range then optimal+falloff for the navy griffin >.< (around 50% chance to miss, not counting the chance to actualy jam the target)
Ransu Asanari AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 444	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:59:50 - [35] - Quote ECM will still be bad. Can we have an EWAR rebalance soon please? Maybe before these ships go into the wild? I like the missile damage bonus on the Vigil Navy. Please follow that damage pattern to all damage type bonused missile ships plz. Scram kiting Navy Maulus already OP.
Hendrink Collie Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation. 73	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:59:58 - [36] - Quote afkalt wrote: The ecm range is stupid and so is that Maulus - has the garmur taught you nothing? Sigh. What's stupid about the range? It can't project ECM very well past... what, 15km?
Wolfe copying Perkone Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:00:33 - [37] - Quote The Gallente Frig will be awesome. I think the Amarr Ewar frig will be under utiliized because it does less dps than the slicer and not as useful as a Sentinel. edit: actually just noticed the small drone bay on the Navy Crucifier. It should be alright.
Mai Khumm Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 684	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:00:39 - [38] - Quote Maulus Navy is gonna be badass... Toronto EVE Thread! [email protected] @Toronto_EVE
TJ Tadaruwa Ignotis Imperium Usurper. 0	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:03:10 - [39] - Quote Is there any particular reason why the Maulus Navy and the Vigil Fleet seem to be more like their T2 EAFs than the Crucifier Navy and the Sentinel. Maulus Navy (point range + a random point strength outta nowhere) Vigil Fleet (web range) Crucifier Navy (you would think would have a neut/nos range bonus, if we're following the same trajectory here, no?) Griffen Navy (who cares, cuz lol ECM) Love, -TJ
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:05:59 - [40] - Quote These are beautiful. I mean +1m to those saying kick ECM in the baws first like but still, these look hella fun. Travelling at the speed of love.

Mario Putzo 1548	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:06:27 - [41] - Quote looks at vigil haha Kinetic bonus for missiles is unique and interesting...here have a 25% Explosive bonus AND a 20% bonus for each other damage type lol.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3427	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:07:41 - [42] - Quote griffin with damage bonus WTF how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2172	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:09:41 - [43] - Quote Hendrink Collie wrote: afkalt wrote: The ecm range is stupid and so is that Maulus - has the garmur taught you nothing? Sigh. What's stupid about the range? It can't project ECM very well past... what, 15km? Exactly, it's too short. If they're honestly giving the vigil a freaking web range bonus AND missiles I don't even know what's going on. And don't get me started on the giant package of OP hilarity that is the Maulus.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3340	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:10:24 - [44] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff This is the ECM nerf you should be applying to the whole range, btw. Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
Ransu Asanari AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 444	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:11:47 - [45] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: looks at vigil haha Kinetic bonus for missiles is unique and interesting...here have a 25% Explosive bonus AND a 20% bonus for each other damage type lol. It's following the same change made to the Hookbill and Navy Osprey. Lets just hope he's listening, and this kind of bonus gets back-ported to some of the other missile ships with damage specific bonuses, even if slightly reduced.
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:11:47 - [46] - Quote afkalt wrote: Hendrink Collie wrote: afkalt wrote: The ecm range is stupid and so is that Maulus - has the garmur taught you nothing? Sigh. What's stupid about the range? It can't project ECM very well past... what, 15km? Exactly, it's too short. If they're honestly giving the vigil a freaking web range bonus AND missiles I don't even know what's going on. And don't get me started on the giant package of OP hilarity that is the Maulus. It's almost like they're all designed to engage at similar ranges and are bonused accordingly. Travelling at the speed of love.
Pyralissa Kite Co. Space Trucking 28	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:17:53 - [47] - Quote The role bonuses are worded poorly (they imply a double negative). There's already too much projection for webs and scrams, this just reinforces the kiting/skirmish meta further. That's some generous fitting on the Griffin. MASB fits could become a concern. ECM.
Esnaelc Sin'led AdAstra. Beach Club 36	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:19:36 - [48] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Vigil Fleet Issue Minmatar Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion velocity 25% bonus to explosive missile damage, 20% bonus to em, thermal and kinetic missile damage Misc Bonus: +50% Stasis Webifier range Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 1 Turret, 2 Launchers 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 38 PWG, 190 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 525 / 525 / 425 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 300 / 150s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.2 / 1,080,000 / 5 / 4.79s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 660 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar Signature radius: 34 I Suggest Quote: Vigil Fleet Issue Minmatar Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion velocity *15% bonus to Stasis Webifier range.* Misc Bonus: 25% bonus to explosive missile damage, 20% bonus to em, thermal and kinetic missile damage. Or whatever else bonus. Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 1 Turret, 2 Launchers 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 38 PWG, 190 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 525 / 525 / 425 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 300 / 150s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.2 / 1,080,000 / 5 / 4.79s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 660 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar Signature radius: 34
Nikolai Agnon Dirt 'n' Glitter Local Is Primary 35	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:22:29 - [49] - Quote Quote: Crucifier Navy Issue Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Weapon Disruptor effectiveness Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to Weapon Disruptor optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to Weapon Disruptor activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 2 Turret 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 42 PWG, 180 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 375 / 600 / 525 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 500 / 250s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 340 / 3.35 / 1,064,000 / 5 / 4.94s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 20 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64km / 640 / 5 Sensor strength: 14 Radar Signature radius: 38 I'm curious as to why the Navy Crucifier is so weak compared to the rest. It's the only one that looks like it will be outclassed by just about every other frigate. Why you would want the Crucifier Navy instead of the regular Crucifier? The TD cost per cycle is fairly negligible compared to the energy turret cap usage. A rails Crucifier would be more powerful than the proposed Navy variant. The 10.8km maximum range on the TD's heavily implies kiting: but it can neither force a kite, if it's AB fit (TD can't force a target closer), nor can it track anything itself if it's mwd fit, as lasers have fairly bad tracking. Navy Maulus: Scram kiting at ~15km Navy Vigil: Similar, scram kiting at ~15km Navy Griffin: Brawling (blasters, rocket, 6.5km ecm range) Navy Crucifier: ??? What role is the Navy Crucifier designed to fill, in a solo or small gang environment? Why would the Crucifier be less suited to fill the same job?
Ransu Asanari AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 444	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:31:52 - [50] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: These ships are designed to use their racial ewar bonuses (primary ewar for Amarr and Caldari, secondary for Gallente and Minmatar) in unusual ways That's because the Caldari don't have a secondary EWAR bonus. And this doesn't seem to be significantly different. I don't think the Navy Griffin will realistically be able to compete against the other frigates. The Griffin/Blackbird right now gets 15% ECM Strength per level. Increasing this to 20%/Level for the Navy Griffin, while higher than the 30%/Level the Rook/Falcon get, isn't significant. But both of those ships can easily operate at range of ~40-70km in ECM falloff, as they don't have the -85% Penalty to ECM Optimal/Falloff. Most of the time you aren't operating inside of long point range even. Forcing the Navy Griffin into brawl range with blasters is fine, but the ECM strength bonus isn't good enough to compensate for the range penalty. The ship is also the second slowest, with max speed matching the Maulus Navy, slightly less mass, but a worse align time. The one small unbonused drone is rather pathetic - it's the same as the Griffin. Why not just remove it, so we have less to micromanage? Some ideas for "unusual ways" of using the ECM bonus: High strength bonus to Multispectral ECM so it's actually favored to bring it rather than racial type? Would be hilarious if it was bonused for ECM Burst as well to counter drones. 50% reduction to ECM module cycle duration. This way the lower ECM strength is compensated by being in optimal range (so higher jam chance), and more jam attempts. Reduction in ECM Module heat damage. More time able to overload these modules to get the additional ECM bonus. Or can we just admit ECM needs a rebalance completely anyway?

afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2172	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:34:43 - [51] - Quote Ix Method wrote: afkalt wrote: Hendrink Collie wrote: afkalt wrote: The ecm range is stupid and so is that Maulus - has the garmur taught you nothing? Sigh. What's stupid about the range? It can't project ECM very well past... what, 15km? Exactly, it's too short. If they're honestly giving the vigil a freaking web range bonus AND missiles I don't even know what's going on. And don't get me started on the giant package of OP hilarity that is the Maulus. It's almost like they're all designed to engage at similar ranges and are bonused accordingly. If you think a 15km basic T2 web is in any way analogous to a 15km ECM range I have no idea what to tell you.
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 151	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:37:34 - [52] - Quote what goal you hope to see with those Navy Ewar frigate? if result is good or go as what you expect, will that bring us possible of future Navy Ewar Cruiser?
Thanatos Marathon Black Fox Marauders 528	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:42:06 - [53] - Quote Will these be allowed in novice FW plexes like all other navy/pirate frigs?
lin Quay Motiveless Malignity Psychotic Tendencies. 0	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:50:08 - [54] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: man, not more recon bonuses :\ and why do I want +1 scram strength? If you fly upon factional wars you see many with stab. Now they need more stab or they die when this ship arrive. Is nerf to semi afk max stab pussy plexer cyka
Athryn Bellee SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 59	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:53:28 - [55] - Quote Hahnid wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Let us know what you think! That's what I think about the changes and ewar in general! So why do Minnies get web range, but Amarr no neut range? Years ago I thought of ewar something like this T1 Ewar (use for tactical advantage): Amarr - Tracking Disruption Minmatar - Target Painting Gallente - Sensor Dampening Caldari - ECM (with no range bonus, less strength or less midslots) T2 Ewar (use for disabling ships): Amarr - Energy Neutralizer Minmatar - Web (range) Gallente - Scramble (range) Caldari - ECM (range and strength) Geddon has neutrange? Caldari has the Scorpion? What's with Minmatar and Gallente? Dragoon has neutrange, too? Does this make sense? Do you get what I try to imply? So many questions, I know Amarr recons get lots of bonus to their nuet/nos range. So does the Sentinel.
Ransu Asanari AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 444	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:53:55 - [56] - Quote I don't see why the Crucifier Navy Issue should have the Weapon Disruption Optimal/Falloff penalty. A normal Crucifier can already brawl in scram range: [Crucifier, Crucifier - Laser Brawler] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50 Warp Scrambler II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Energy Burst Aerator I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I I don't see a huge differentiation from the regular Crucifier in the current proposal, other than a damage bonus and forcing it at close range. I'm glad it's not going to become another Energy Neutralizer bonused ship, as the Sentinel fills that role very well. Since the Navy Maulus and Griffin are forced into close range, and the Fleet Vigil will be an amazing kiter, why not let the Navy Crucifier be a similar kiter to the Navy Slicer, but with EWAR capability to compensate for the lack of optimal range bonus?
Naomi Anthar 387	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:56:53 - [57] - Quote Ok I will be honest here : GRIFFIN super op. Basically anything it hugs is dead except for maybe drone boats ? Is that fun gameplay you want to intruduce ? Vigil ... WOW not sure if joke but i see there 4.5 effective launcher +3 small drones along with long web. NERF NERF NERF NERF maybe like 30% web bonus and cut damage to 4 effective turrets bonus and 1 drone AT LEAST. It would still be good easily. Maulus - another joke ... dont even know where to start. The only resaonble boat out there is navy crucifier. Looks solid , nothing op. Wrong disruptor wont do a **** against turret boats or missile and always nothing against drone boats. But somewhat i like it. Basically those ships cannot go live like that except cruci navy which is fine. Also why Crucifier gets 4 effective turrets 2 drones and worse ewar bonus than vigil ? Like 4.5 launcher 3 drones and better utility that is always useful?
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1818	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:57:30 - [58] - Quote lin Quay wrote: TrouserDeagle wrote: man, not more recon bonuses :\ and why do I want +1 scram strength? If you fly upon factional wars you see many with stab. Now they need more stab or they die when this ship arrive. Is nerf to semi afk max stab pussy plexer cyka It's not just good for that, it's also good for those four WCS Asteros that are running all over null sec. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Lucy Alfrir The Lost Shadows 3	Posted - 2015.10.16 18:58:55 - [59] - Quote I like the look of these. When are the T2 versions going to be rebalanced? or did I miss that? I think the Hyena and Kitsune could use a drone bay.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2029	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:00:10 - [60] - Quote Hendrink Collie wrote: afkalt wrote: The ecm range is stupid and so is that Maulus - has the garmur taught you nothing? Sigh. What's stupid about the range? It can't project ECM very well past... what, 15km? That is the point of it. You should use it at close range with high DPS blasters or rails. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1138	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:01:13 - [61] - Quote Ransu Asanari wrote: I don't see why the Crucifier Navy Issue should have the Weapon Disruption Optimal/Falloff penalty. A normal Crucifier can already brawl in scram range: [Crucifier, Crucifier - Laser Brawler] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50 Warp Scrambler II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Energy Burst Aerator I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I I don't see a huge differentiation from the regular Crucifier in the current proposal, other than a damage bonus and forcing it at close range. I'm glad it's not going to become another Energy Neutralizer bonused ship, as the Sentinel fills that role very well. Since the Navy Maulus and Griffin are forced into close range, and the Fleet Vigil will be an amazing kiter, why not let the Navy Crucifier be a similar kiter to the Navy Slicer, but with EWAR capability to compensate for the lack of optimal range bonus? lol that fit, finally something a punisher or rifter can kill
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 801	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:04:40 - [62] - Quote I like these new ships EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Gneeznow Chemically Unbalanced 119	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:04:50 - [63] - Quote DAT MAULUS
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3427	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:06:34 - [64] - Quote can you make the maulus dscan immune? how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Matt Faithbringer Rapid Withdrawal 23	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:11:53 - [65] - Quote Bienator II wrote: can you make the maulus dscan immune? oh please yes
Ransu Asanari AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 444	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:13:26 - [66] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: lol that fit, finally something a punisher or rifter can kill Didn't say I'd ever fly it :) Right now it makes more sense to put unbonused neuts, or Blasters/Railguns on the Crucifier since it has no damage bonus.
Lucy Alfrir The Lost Shadows 3	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:14:17 - [67] - Quote Matt Faithbringer wrote: Bienator II wrote: can you make the maulus dscan immune? oh please yes Why just the maulus? If one, why not all. I get that the scram strength and catching explorers is where you're heading, but the others would also benefit.
Nex Killer Drunk3n Industry 97	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:16:54 - [68] - Quote oooh can't wait looks like fun! :D
Swiftstrike1 Swiftstrike Incorporated 887	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:19:59 - [69] - Quote Brawling Griffin. I don't know what to think about this... Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Lidia Caderu Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club 45	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:22:26 - [70] - Quote Maulus is like designed spesifically for camp. Too OP.

Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 286	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:23:42 - [71] - Quote Navy Crucifier is pretty weak compared to the others. The vigil and maulus excel at kiting and/or catching kiters. One uses missiles and the other drones, and they both have tackle bonuses. The crucifier has to get close, because beams with no tracking and no range bonus are pretty terrible. It's behind in the drone department compared to all but the griffin, which exacerbates the problem. It doesn't have the tackle range to catch the others and doesn't have the reach to punish them at range. It's ewar is also conditional. Webs and scrams are always good and most ships fit them. A TD isn't always needed or even good. Web range + missiles + more drones on the vigil = kiting death scram range + more drones on the maulus = super scram kiter ecm > all ewar combined 10km TD (a conditional ewar) + no tracking/range on guns + sub-par drone bay = kited to death by the others And to the people complaining about how 15km webs and scrams aren't very good....links. Links and shiny tackle.
Nephilim Xeno ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES 24eme Legion Etrangere 16	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:24:16 - [72] - Quote so why the **** does Amarr get the by far worst of all ewar frigs? all this frigs apart from the crucifier seem to be very OP and amarr militia already have the BY FAR worst LP store of all militias and now we get another useless damn ship no one will use ? how about you rebalance the damn LP stores already? how about you remove cap requirement for all guns on ships they were designed to be used on ? how about you remove this stupid tag requirements for most LP store items or at least change them so the tags you need actually also drop the rats in the plexes?
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 287	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:28:38 - [73] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: Ransu Asanari wrote: I don't see why the Crucifier Navy Issue should have the Weapon Disruption Optimal/Falloff penalty. A normal Crucifier can already brawl in scram range: [Crucifier, Crucifier - Laser Brawler] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50 Warp Scrambler II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Energy Burst Aerator I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I I don't see a huge differentiation from the regular Crucifier in the current proposal, other than a damage bonus and forcing it at close range. I'm glad it's not going to become another Energy Neutralizer bonused ship, as the Sentinel fills that role very well. Since the Navy Maulus and Griffin are forced into close range, and the Fleet Vigil will be an amazing kiter, why not let the Navy Crucifier be a similar kiter to the Navy Slicer, but with EWAR capability to compensate for the lack of optimal range bonus? lol that fit, finally something a punisher or rifter can kill I use a similar fit. Those squishy kiting frigates get erections when they see a supposedly easy ewar frigate kill. Though mine eschews the ewar altogether and fits an extender as well as an ASB.
Danmal Proioxis Assault Force Exodus. 29	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:52:40 - [74] - Quote Assault frigates. GOOD GOD THINK OF THE ASSAULT FRIGATES. New T1 frigs are interesting for newbros, of which you urgently need to get a lot to subscribe to make up for likely recent losses in the subscriber base (judging by the ACU). But from a balance point of view, there would be more urgent issues than the tireless introduction of new ship classes.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1578	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:55:15 - [75] - Quote Looks fun for solo, for the other side probably not so much ... I'm my own NPC alt.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1218	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:57:04 - [76] - Quote Danmal wrote: Assault frigates. GOOD GOD THINK OF THE ASSAULT FRIGATES. New T1 frigs are interesting for newbros, of which you urgently need to get a lot to subscribe to make up for likely recent losses in the subscriber base (judging by the ACU). But from a balance point of view, there would be more urgent issues than the tireless introduction of new ship classes. very much so .. things like T3 cruisers and dessies need the attention too fix them instead T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Arla Sarain 673	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:58:51 - [77] - Quote Cool, vanilla frigs obsolete. More stuff for the rifter and punisher to die too :D
Gremk The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel 18	Posted - 2015.10.16 19:59:42 - [78] - Quote The Griffin Navy Issue will not get fights ever. EWAR is already stupid currently, then add it to a brawling blaster boat... Not really sure what other bonus you can give it other than reworking ECM currently into something that isn't pure ****.
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 503	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:01:37 - [79] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: Brawling Griffin. I don't know what to think about this... https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17869473 think about it. it has been done to death. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Lucy Alfrir The Lost Shadows 3	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:03:14 - [80] - Quote Nephilim Xeno wrote: so why the **** does Amarr get the by far worst of all ewar frigs? ? Scorch OP, Amarr victor. Just even's up the field a little if their ewar is weakest.

Freelancer117 So you want to be a Hero 360	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:03:17 - [81] - Quote Will you re-balance Ewar drones to ? The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans. http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1218	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:04:40 - [82] - Quote Gremk wrote: The Griffin Navy Issue will not get fights ever. EWAR is already stupid currently, then add it to a brawling blaster boat... Not really sure what other bonus you can give it other than reworking ECM currently into something that isn't pure ****. these could go well in a smallgang as e-war tackle, even with only 1 jammer on each or combo with a vigil for a 2jams 2 webs combo. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Freelancer117 So you want to be a Hero 360	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:08:22 - [83] - Quote What a wasted opportunity to not turn the Punisher into a missile ship, also giving it +1 low slot instead of +1 mid slot, makes it not a pvp ship. You need 3 mid slots for prop and scram and web modules to dish out Punishment The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans. http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 503	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:13:34 - [84] - Quote CCP you guys need to start releasing ships in the reverse alphabetical order. Every damn time you release ships it starts of with amarr. ok its decent lets look at the others caldari yeah thats nice i do luvs me missile/ecm stuffs gallentee yeah thats gonna be gg minmatar WOW THATS ******* OVERPOWERED. let me scroll back up and compare for a second. wow that amarr one is really trash. and the caldari one is pretty MEH compared to this minmatar gallentee things. every... god... damn... time. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Freelancer117 So you want to be a Hero 360	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:20:41 - [85] - Quote Could you please look a the mandatory skill Long Range Targeting set to level 5 for Electronic Attack ship. I rather see Targeting Management, Signature Analysis and Long Range Targeting to level 4 for Electronic Attack ship, that help you target more things, faster and further away. Setting just one of these skill to level 5 is a bit eccentric The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans. http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Styphon the Black Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union 41	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:22:00 - [86] - Quote I wouldn't really call these "new" ships. Just a newer version of an old hull with some slightly different stats. How about some actual new ships? Like the T3 Destroyers were. I see none of these are bonused toward the new anti-missile EWAR I was hoping that at least one race would have a bonused ship.
Torei Dutalis IceBox Inc. 36	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:27:05 - [87] - Quote So the navy crucifier is 10 m/s slower than the t1 version and has less drones and bandwidth so that it can get in close and brawl? Not impressed at all, not one little bit. Blaster griffin, sure, gimmicky, still a griffin. Navy maulus is what I kind of expected, should really be named navy tristan though, because that's what it is. Nice job on the fleet vigil. However, where's the buff to the t1 vigil? It is quite possibly the worst ship in the entire game. Overall these ships are pretty bland, nothing at all like the other navy frigates which all give some sort of strong and compelling game play but are not too insane. These are just rehashes of one of the weakest classes of ships in the game, and quite frankly if you just rebalanced the current t1 ships with these stats, nobody would probably even notice (except the new vigil). I realize I may be being overly negative in response to these ships, but the t1 ewar ships (cruisers included) and how they never actually got teiracided is a topic I often like to gripe about.
Arla Sarain 673	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:39:32 - [88] - Quote Vigil and Maulus will obviously be at the top of the food chain - latter is just a souped up Tristan. Both will be Predominantly kiters. I think both the Crucifier and Griffin deserve slightly more tank than the other two. Ideally you'd start addressing the toxic kiting meta and remove the scram bonus from the Maulus. Instead add a bonus to damps but only to the resolution part, to favor AB fits. Hit an enemy with a damp and aim to win the encounter by beating in lock time. Keep the bonus to strength but expand it to points, hell maybe even increase it to +2 or 3. So that a single point shuts down stabbed ships.
Zappity Black Aces I N F A M O U S 2496	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:43:11 - [89] - Quote I really like the thinking behind the limited range of the Griffin Navy. Very cool to have meaningful choices, especially for ECM. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2667	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:55:02 - [90] - Quote Crucifier seems a bit weak with only the base weapon disruptor bonus along with other all-around mediocre stats compared to the rest. I suggest giving it 8% weapon disruptor bonus. Keep in mind this tiny change will have a fairly strong effect on the higher-end disruption values. This will also put the Crucifier in line with the Griffin's ECM boost being higher than t1 ECM bonuses. The Griffin looks good! The Maulus seems a bit strong. It gets a full flight of 5 drones with a full backup flight. Not having any drone damage bonuses balances it out, but I'd suggest removing some of the backup drones to give the Crucifier more of a specialty as having backup drones. Maybe even give the Crucifier more, say, +10m3 drone bay to the Crucifier and -15m3 drone bay to the ~~Tristan~~ Maulus. The Vigil looks pretty good. It's going to be very powerful with two full missile bonuses but I'm withholding judgement for now. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm

Lobster Bisque Lost in Time and Space 2	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:59:16 - [91] - Quote I like these at first glance, but I'm a little confused about the Vigil's bonuses. Does it make sense to pair a web range bonus with an explosion velocity bonus? If something's webbed explosion velocity won't help application much. Is there something I'm missing here? I guess it would be helpful for LML kiting fits.
Ezmerald Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:03:07 - [92] - Quote So you are adding more cancer ECM ships to the game without even addressing the terrible game mechanism that is ECM? Why in gods name would you add more before fixing it and making ECCM mods actually work?
Mr Grape Drink Sugar - Water - Purple 56	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:05:51 - [93] - Quote Styphon the Black wrote: I wouldn't really call these "new" ships. Just a newer version of an old hull with some slightly different stats. How about some actual new ships? Like the T3 Destroyers were. I see none of these are bonused toward the new anti-missile EWAR I was hoping that at least one race would have a bonused ship. The Cruicifier bonus will affect the missile disruptor
Midori Tsu Evolution Northern Coalition. 142	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:14:54 - [94] - Quote The Navy Maulus makes me wonder why the Ishkur even exists.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1220	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:16:34 - [95] - Quote Midori Tsu wrote: The Navy Maulus makes me wonder why the Ishkur even exists. mm.. ishkur needs a looking at as its the old split platform, but i think maybe the navy maulus needs too be more like 20mb rather than 25mb T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2093	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:19:02 - [96] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff *I see what you did there* Would be fun Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 600	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:23:47 - [97] - Quote Idk how i feel about these changes. I like the direction with the griffin/crucifier with the range penalty, but then that gallente favoritism is showing again. Fleet vigil looks tolerable. Course what i see from this is no one will brawl against a fleet griffin, as no frigate/dessie has the SS to avoid being permajammed. Now if no one fits jams and goes full tank, the griffin might be pretty good at brawling. Shield tanked comet. Dual web rail griffin Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 1905	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:42:34 - [98] - Quote Some interesting looking ships with some very specific bonuses. Would be nice to see the ewar tiericide that goes with this @ChainsawPlankto
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 332	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:52:45 - [99] - Quote ArmyOfMe wrote: Yay, more ecm ships And yes, if you think im negative towards a lot of the things you guys have been doing this year, then you are indeed correct. Now first of all, fix ecm first, then introduce the new ecm ship. Dont sit back for another 10+ years before doing something to ecm. I think ECM is just fine. As a matter of fact, Caldari ECM is underpowered compared to the other three.
Zavand Crendraven Rolling Static Gone Critical 26	Posted - 2015.10.16 22:10:40 - [100] - Quote TJ Tadaruwa wrote: Is there any particular reason why the Maulus Navy and the Vigil Fleet seem to be more like their T2 EAFs than the Crucifier Navy and the Sentinel. Maulus Navy (point range + a random point strength outta nowhere) Vigil Fleet (web range) Crucifier Navy (you would think would have a neut/nos range bonus, if we're following the same trajectory here, no?) Griffen Navy (who cares, cuz lol ECM) Love, -TJ Isnt it fairly obvious? Damps in brawling range is about as good blasters at kite range. Target painting is pretty much the same in that regard. ECM will still disable anything at point blank (please fix ECM seriously). And weapon disruption can still fck up the application on targets.

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1139	Posted - 2015.10.16 22:19:14 - [101] - Quote Danmal wrote: Assault frigates. GOOD GOD THINK OF THE ASSAULT FRIGATES. New T1 frigs are interesting for newbros, of which you urgently need to get a lot to subscribe to make up for likely recent losses in the subscriber base (judging by the ACU). But from a balance point of view, there would be more urgent issues than the tireless introduction of new ship classes. just pretend assault frigates don't exist, then it's ok.
ViolentDesire School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 11	Posted - 2015.10.16 22:21:29 - [102] - Quote ECM needs to be fixed before adding more of it. I havent seen a single comment anywhere even implying there needs to be more ECM in the game. No idea why these ships are added.
Callduron Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids 630	Posted - 2015.10.16 22:29:12 - [103] - Quote I love to do frigate combat in Novice Plexes so for me these are an absolute dream! Looking forward to my blaster griffin, my anti-farmer maulus, my double tracking disruptor cruci and my kitey rocket vigil. Can't wait for these, take my LP! I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/ I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
Shirocc Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1	Posted - 2015.10.16 22:55:14 - [104] - Quote I think the Maulus needs a nerf :D 4 drones and a +5% bonus should fit better, tristan is allready cancer and we dont need a 15km cancer frig to our 24 km cancer frig sorry :/ maybe a +5% range bonus too...
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2667	Posted - 2015.10.16 22:58:39 - [105] - Quote Lobster Bisque wrote: I like these at first glance, but I'm a little confused about the Vigil's bonuses. Does it make sense to pair a web range bonus with an explosion velocity bonus? If something's webbed explosion velocity won't help application much. Is there something I'm missing here? I guess it would be helpful for LML kiting fits. Well it'll be nice to have at least one ship with this. That way there's a way to beat a 10MN AB-kiting Dramiel that's using a missile disruptor without having more than one ship. Otherwise, I don't quite see the use. Shirocc wrote: I think the Maulus needs a nerf :D 4 drones and a +5% bonus should fit better, tristan is allready cancer and we dont need a 15km cancer frig to our 24 km cancer frig sorry :/ maybe a +5% range bonus too... I agree with this. Bring it down to 4/6 drones, and buff the Crucifier to 2/6 drones. Also, the drone tracking bonus puts the Maulus along with the Vigil into anti-interceptor territory. I'm not condoning or condemning, simply pointing it out. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 1489	Posted - 2015.10.16 23:37:20 - [106] - Quote I don't think eve needs more ships.... Just balance the existing ships and be done with it. The Tears Must Flow
Davis TetrisKing The Vendunari End of Life 138	Posted - 2015.10.17 00:48:01 - [107] - Quote Really like the look of these, should be interesting to see if they change the meta in novice plex's a bit. Always good to have new stuff to play with.
Lyra Gerie Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 66	Posted - 2015.10.17 00:50:32 - [108] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: man, not more recon bonuses :\ and why do I want +1 scram strength? To catch FW pilots who load up on warp core stabs to cap plexes or for wormholers trying to catch ventures or other ships with high warp core strength. It's a pretty niche market but it does exist. TL;DR this is the ship to use if you absolutely positively need to catch another ship and either can't or don't want to drop a bubble.
sytaqe violacea Circus of midnight 36	Posted - 2015.10.17 00:59:26 - [109] - Quote From the FWfrig pilotGÇÖs viewpoint, 1 Question : LP Requirement of this ships are equal between FWLPstores and other LPstores? Without FW discount, they will be too expensive to take a risk of bringing brawler range. Crucifier Navy Issue good. I love scram kite crucifier. I have killed a lot of Destroyers with scram kite crucifier, and excited by 42 PWG now. Griffin Navy Issue so-so. The problem is "20% bonus to ECM strength". This is same as Kitsune. This ship will need tank, so much less slots for ECM strength than Kitsune. At least 25% bonus is needed to make up for the range penalty. Maulus Navy Issue less attractive. GÇ¥+1 scramble strength to all Warp ScramblersGÇ¥ is too weak to catch farmers. Why not +2 or 100% bonus? Vigil Fleet Issue Is this poorman's cruor? Without range bonus, rocket fit is uncompetitive. Furthermore, 50% web range bonused web is shorter than Loki linked heated web, LM kiting fit will be killed so easily.
Prometheus Exenthal mnemonic. 791	Posted - 2015.10.17 01:07:01 - [110] - Quote WHY? 100 flavours and you haven't even got vanilla right https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 2827	Posted - 2015.10.17 01:11:31 - [111] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Let us know what you think! Vigil Fleet Issue I am one of the very few current PVP Vigil pilots, so any improvement on the ultimate niche ship is good.... and my preliminary numbers are....wow. 153.15 DPS (116 = 2 x LMLs w/ Explosive + 36.5 drone) 5km web, dissy = 19km OH web range and kiting like a bawss doing 153 DPS. Dis gun be nasty. It has reasonable fitting latitude given the lower number of midslots - 2 x LML's, MSE, MWD, web, scram, 2 x BCU's and DCU appears fittable. But i really don't know what that spare highslot would, should or even could be used for, given it will most probably be used for web kiting with LML's and can't fit a decent enough buffer to deal with the current drone DPS boat proliferation. Maulus Navy Issue There's going to be some very sore DST transports in lowsec and highsec, I can tell. 3 point 14km scrams, zomg. Of course, the next thing we really, really needed in the frigate meta was more of those long range point ships. Add in links, and 20km scram kite is going to be a thing, and we all love the idea of that I am sure. DPS is going to be reasonable given the competing drone meta options, and you can even do a reasonable sentry drone meta with these things given a 50% tracking bonus and Omnidirectional in the midslot. Griffin Navy Issue Not sure about this ship. I guess...find something with no drones and sig tank its guns? I don't know that a 100% jam strength bonus on this will get jam strengths of 16-20 or so, which is going to be deadly vs turret and missile-only ships like the Punisher, Rifter, Corax, Svipul etc. if you can get within 9km of them (6.75 optimal + 6.75 falloff). Which is going to be hard due to being slow as pus Caldari. The DPS is also anemic, but i like the cap use bonus, it is going to help you not cap yourself out in seconds. I foresee these sitting on warp-ins in FW plexes and not much else. Crucifier Navy Issue The Crucifier never suffered much as a brawling fit before, and this brawling focused variant is just going to make them more of a PITA for turret cruisers and BS they can get the drop on. Not sure why 4 mids and 3 lows - as an AB sig tank it can get away with one scripted TD (or MD), AB + scram. The extra lows might be very necessary for it to mount a decent armour tank, as a 3-slot tank is going to be AAR, DCU and EANM, so about 127 DPS. You'll want to be on top of drones, and hope to hell for no webs, but then actually cracking an any tank is going to be pretty hard with 4 effective turrets. Still, looks interesting. The pick of the litter is going to be the Maulus, I'm afraid, due to that scram range and strength. Gate camper's must-have. Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 40525	Posted - 2015.10.17 01:15:27 - [112] - Quote Loving that Navy Maulus. I think this will become the replacement for the Shield Buffer kiting Tristan: http://puu.sh/kMVfh/28ab52379e.png Either an extra DDA for more DPS, or a second Nanofiber in the lows, freeing up a rig slot for a third Small Core Defense Field Extender, providing better buffer and higher speed. Either way will work well I think. No need for the scram bonus, just kite and work around the higher base mass and lower agility. Longer targeting range is awesome. So looking forward to this. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
M1k3y Koontz Respawn Disabled Initiative Mercenaries 803	Posted - 2015.10.17 01:31:22 - [113] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: H -85% penalty to Weapon Disruptor optimal range and falloff -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff Is that an 85% bonus to the range of tracking disruptors and ECM? The wording is unclear to me. Harvey James wrote: any chance you will finally take the nerfbat to T3 cruisers in the winter patch? .. its sooo.. long overdue Keep beating the dead horse. T3Ds are a problem, regular T3s are not. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Desiderya Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 1062	Posted - 2015.10.17 01:43:37 - [114] - Quote Looks broken as heck. The brawling ships to end all brawling ships. Damage potential is way, way too high for them. Both the tackle based ewar ships carry bonuses that are more suitable to kiting than brawling. Maybe giving them some additional staying power would be better than that level of dps. EWAR/DPS doesn't lead to microgang ( people use specialized ships like keres/ceptors for that support ). It looks like they'll be the plex farming boats of choice. I'm quite astouned how these numbers were even making a first pass, because from the perspective of someone very active in the ship brackets these fall into I'm neither hyped, nor concerned, I'm massively turned off. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Iam Widdershins Stop Breaking My Kayak 894	Posted - 2015.10.17 03:17:48 - [115] - Quote I was taken aback to see you were giving these new navy ships a full 400 calibration. Is this a typo, or an intentional move? Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2667	Posted - 2015.10.17 03:24:16 - [116] - Quote sytaqe violacea wrote: Maulus Navy Issue less attractive. GÇ¥+1 scramble strength to all Warp ScramblersGÇ¥ is too weak to catch farmers. Why not +2 or 100% bonus? You can fit 2 scramblers to get +6 scram strength, that'll stop just about anything. Iam Widdershins wrote: I was taken aback to see you were giving these new navy ships a full 400 calibration. Is this a typo, or an intentional move? It is normal for navy ships to have 400 calibration. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Midori Tsu Evolution Northern Coalition. 142	Posted - 2015.10.17 03:32:17 - [117] - Quote I would really like to hear from the DEVs how they think the ishkur compares to the navy maulus
Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 280	Posted - 2015.10.17 04:12:47 - [118] - Quote Why give the Maulus a full drone bay but not the Crucifier? Crucifier should use drones as its primary weapon type similar to the arbitrator shouldnt it? Maulus already gets two of the best ewar bonuses, sensor damps, which work on practically everything, + warp scram range, and the crucifier is stuck with tracking disruptors which while good are only good against turrets, why not give it a bonus to neutralizer range or power? Still cool ships tho
Mad Abbat Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET 4	Posted - 2015.10.17 04:22:22 - [119] - Quote As it stands now, Crucifier Navy is not needed at all. May we have neut range bonus on crucifier navy with 5 bonussed small drones flight?
Oreb Wing Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 104	Posted - 2015.10.17 04:28:50 - [120] - Quote They are looking good. People shouldn't knock the Cruci, just wait until the missile disruption comes online, then we'll see. Griffin would be a great wing man for two pilot roam. EHP on Maulus drones seems crazy with navy hobs, but hopefully the ship ehp is reasonable. Super web on a missile boat will be interesting. A troll breacher. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom

Boozbaz Brutor Clan 19	Posted - 2015.10.17 06:08:57 - [121] - Quote I just hope this isn't another push forward in power creep in EVE Online
Iam Widdershins Stop Breaking My Kayak 894	Posted - 2015.10.17 06:49:27 - [122] - Quote Iam Widdershins wrote: I was taken aback to see you were giving these new navy ships a full 400 calibration. Is this a typo, or an intentional move? It is normal for navy ships to have 400 calibration.[/quote] Ah... so it is. My mistake. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Danmal Proioxis Assault Force Exodus. 30	Posted - 2015.10.17 07:30:24 - [123] - Quote Midori Tsu wrote: The Navy Maulus makes me wonder why the Ishkur even exists. Don't worry. You are not alone. Everybody wonders why Assault Frigates currently exist.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16825	Posted - 2015.10.17 07:39:15 - [124] - Quote Well these already need a nerf. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Greygal Redemption Road Affirmative. 488	Posted - 2015.10.17 09:48:37 - [125] - Quote Oh ya, oh ya, oh ya... I'm in lust already ... these are going to not only be a total blast in facwar space, can you imagine the fun I'll have running a public roam of 50-80 of these sweet pretty little brawling ewar beasts? Not sure I'm going to be able to sleep tonight, dreaming of them already!! GÖÑ What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal. Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams! Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 437	Posted - 2015.10.17 09:56:36 - [126] - Quote Because bonus wording is sometimes... odd... The Amarr and Caldari Range bonuses are drastically reducing the EWar range to encourage the disruption ship into ranges where it can contribute through its weapons as well; rather than kiting around jamming at near max range with highslots which might as well be empty? TrouserDeagle wrote: and why do I want +1 scram strength? Stab'd De'plexing ships in FW? Enough scram to hold a Venture with a single module?
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 193	Posted - 2015.10.17 10:15:58 - [127] - Quote Initial impressions are these ships look good but need some tweaking. Crucifier looks like it might need improvements. I guess the weapon disruptors could actually turn out to be very powerful when your playing with a small frigate like this, but I still think it should have more drones than the vigil for balance and flavour purposes. perhaps 15/30 or 20/40 would be enough. Griffin looks good, obviously ECM needs a rebalance anyway so this ship is by default going to be OP (see my proposal in my signature below). Maulus, I like how you haven't given it a drone damage bonus, and even with the scram range bonus its scram won't reach that far so I think although it will be powerful it is actually going to be ok. I don't think that +1 scram bonus fits though or is necessary. Why would this ship get it and not other more specialised ships such as the Arazu. Vigil, I haven't done the maths but it looks like it could be quite powerful in terms of dps, will have to look later. It can't project that far though much like the maulus so it should be easy enough to take care of. All in all I like the fact you are forcing these to operate at a fairly close range, it is a good concept and will mean it is pretty easy to counter all of them. ECM needs a rebalance though. Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
Phoenix Jones Small-Arms Fire 1569	Posted - 2015.10.17 11:32:25 - [128] - Quote .... Here is the deal. They could have bled off a bulk of the bonuses to the existing t2 ewar frigs, vs releasing these. Heck I think they still should. Dunno I think these need a little more thought and/or conceptualizing. These concern me a bit. Yaay!!!!
Max Reborn Drunken astronauts Space Marines. 4	Posted - 2015.10.17 12:12:25 - [129] - Quote Maulus Navy - doom for stabbed lowsec explorers
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2031	Posted - 2015.10.17 12:20:53 - [130] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Well these already need a nerf. In a month or two. In the beginning, you are supposed to have fun with them and derp around. That's CCP's development guideline nowadays. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2670	Posted - 2015.10.17 12:31:18 - [131] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Maulus already gets two of the best ewar bonuses, sensor damps, which work on practically everything, + warp scram range, and the crucifier is stuck with tracking disruptors which while good are only good against turrets, why not give it a bonus to neutralizer range or power? Still cool ships tho Navy Maulus doesn't get a sensor damp bonus, Navy Crucifier gets a bonus to both types of weapon disruptors. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Divine Entervention Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic 697	Posted - 2015.10.17 13:29:58 - [132] - Quote The only one I really paid attention to was the griffin because it's the only one I have experience with. The short targeting range looks like it's trying to nudge the griffin out of sitting back and jamming at max 80ish km ranges with racial jammers and instead getting into close range brawling. As a solo ship, I never really felt as though the griffin had a decent chance. The rainbow config was nice but that was more for small fleet support and completely removed the option of having the ability to hold someone down with a point and web. Multi-spectrals were too weak which resulted in missing most jam attempts, and the griffin's DPS wasn't high enough to afford multiple missed jam cycles. So while you could have like, 2 multi-specs, a point, a web, and a prop mod, the lower jam strength with still zero tank meant you were always on the disadvantageous side of the gamble of attempting anything by yourself. These changes seem like they'll result in their having a fighting chance, which considering they'll most definitely cost about 20x-30x more than your standard griffin, I think it's justified. The small turret bonus looks good. You couldn't really get respectable DPS with the 2 rocket launchers before. It was a contributing factor that coupled with it's zero actual tank and the other ships most likely having one while the griffin's only chance was pure luck from a low-strength jam resulted in griffins more than not rolling snake eyes and blowing up. I like that 1 missile turret hard point btw. It means I can fit a light missile launcher on it and have it spit out defender missiles negating anywhere from 25-33% incoming dps from other frigates while still having the hybrids rain hell. But whatever ends up happening, unless it's completely worthless, people are going to complain about it. People seem to have this selfish idea that they're never suppose to be on the receiving end of bad luck, only the other guy. Only the griffin pilot is suppose to have bad luck. But I dunno, I like the idea of chance. For me, the idea of circumstances out of my control is enticing. But I guess others just can't seem to shake the notion that they're infallible, God's gift, King of the World, whatever it is that makes them so angry whenever they die and enjoy the experience for the experience and not only focus on the end result. But whatever, immature noobs will be immature noobs. +1 for GNI
Ben Ishikela 64	Posted - 2015.10.17 14:03:54 - [133] - Quote Finaly. I waited for this soooo Fing long. And the stats are beautiful. - DroneBay of Maulus is a big one. But look below why that is needed. It will be so much fun, to see the MNI vs. GNI: M:sits far outside range. G: comes closer. deploys ecm-hornet. waits for hornet to hit while killing M's drones. M: kites happily at 15. playing the "in-out"-game. G: His drone finaly hit the Jackpot. Not scrammed(/webbed) by M anymore. Able to come close with heated MWD fast. M: Still doing DPS with drones. G: is at 1000m now wrecking with blasters. ... G: "oh sh*. failed Jam. M: "Yess!". able to burn range again, bc sameSpeed, but more web. .... Repeat! (until maulus drones are dead or Griffin gets lucky in a row (M's 16SS).) But seriously ... RAILS! --- Also Griffin>Worm. (....shhhhh) --- Hey! What is their CargoSize? This is important for G/C/M/V to be able to refit with mobile depot prior to fight. --- RailGriffinOP.... MaulusOP.....VigilOP.... Crucifierwait a minuteOP, because killing everything larger than a frigate (that has no utility-neuts etc ---> stealth buffing the stabber ). But where is that tank w00t l0l* Therefor they are in a very good shape. Ty. Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
Desiderya Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 1062	Posted - 2015.10.17 14:12:03 - [134] - Quote After a nights sleep some summed up thoughts: Incentivizing EWAR into brawling range is a neat idea and the ships could be able to complement this with additional staying power and damage to validate using them over the standard EWAR frigates. As they are proposed now they kill any incentive to use any other frigate outside of some very special cases (Worm, Garmur) because they are extremely strong in small fights and offer outright the same (ehp, dmg) in scaled up situations or get a bonus that lend itself to tackling/kiting. The worst offender is the Griffin as there is literally everything wrong with it. If you want to brawl in a frigate there is nothing better, even if you don't include a racial ECM module. It's also designed that it lives long enough in case you're lucky with your ECCM. But even if it only did 100 dps it would still be a pretty unfun ship to fight. Why ECM ever made it into that list lies beyond me. If it has to be ECM I'd suggest reducing the range further, because the only way to fight this is to never get within 10km for a second, depending how on the ball the pilot is. ( Good thing it can also fit railguns. ). 2.5km+2.5km looks managable as you literally only need to jam once to win. Alternatives could be trying weaker fast cycling ECM (interrupting, not completely locking you for 20s) Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Count Szadek The Looney Bin 12	Posted - 2015.10.17 14:19:01 - [135] - Quote Would really like to see the navy crucifier have a tracking bonus over damage personally. either that or more damage. it is going to be a great sig tanking scram kiter imo, and could use the tracking to help apply damage
Xavier Azabu Tarantism 27	Posted - 2015.10.17 14:21:03 - [136] - Quote I like them. They add variety to small roaming gangs as stated. One of the major questions is their market price. If it is too low, expect some groups to use these en masse with newbros. (especially the Griffin Navy and Crucifier Navy) I think that the Maulus Navy and Vigil Fleet will be gatecamp darlings. They both have similar scan resolution to the Keres and Hyena. Imagine that +3 scram strength combined with a 15km+ web. And on top of that they will apply decent damage given their size. Obviously pro solo pilots will enjoy these two as well due to the range dictation. Reading through all of the comments I think that people are underestimating the Griffin Navy's potential. It will be a really great ship to get a low skill friend or two into for fleet support. Crucifier Navy will be a nice ship in the hangar to completely nerf some missile boats with the new disruptors. Powergrid seems about right as well. The CPU and bonuses definitely make these ships very niche. Not something to bring against a T3 destroyer gang but in the right hands could do some work.
Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 280	Posted - 2015.10.17 14:41:26 - [137] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: Maulus already gets two of the best ewar bonuses, sensor damps, which work on practically everything, + warp scram range, and the crucifier is stuck with tracking disruptors which while good are only good against turrets, why not give it a bonus to neutralizer range or power? Still cool ships tho Navy Maulus doesn't get a sensor damp bonus, Navy Crucifier gets a bonus to both types of weapon disruptors. Yup, thanks. I really misunderstood what I was reading here.
Thanatos Marathon Black Fox Marauders 529	Posted - 2015.10.17 15:00:06 - [138] - Quote Navy Maulus is going to be too strong.
Portmanteau oooh ponies 96	Posted - 2015.10.17 15:16:15 - [139] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Griffin Navy Issue Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 20% bonus to ECM strength Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to ECM Jammer activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 ! yay... another ship for tryhards to roll around in and anyone with any sense to just avoid engaging entirely. We really need less plex cancer not more fozzie
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 213	Posted - 2015.10.17 15:49:51 - [140] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Griffin Navy Issue Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 20% bonus to ECM strength Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to ECM Jammer activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 ! yay... another ship for tryhards to roll around in and anyone with any sense to just avoid engaging entirely. We really need less plex cancer not more fozzie -85% ecm range... ecm with a range of 4km, would you really waste a mid on that? 325 m/s... about the same speed as a merlin the only bonus on it that anyone can use is 20% dmg bonus. This is a piece of ****, if you want to do ecm get a griffin, or basically any ship that isn't this one. If you want to brawl get a merlin. The Griffin and the Crucifier are garbage, the vigil and the Maulus are pure cancer. wow balance Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.

Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 1973	Posted - 2015.10.17 15:55:18 - [141] - Quote The idea sounds good, but the range penalty is just too damn high, give this e-war the optimal range of a scrambler. I understand that you want them to e-war at close range but come on, 4km range is ridiculously short. As for the Maulus and Vigil, I feel like range bonuses kind of defeat the whole point. I'd have loved to see bonuses encouraging close combat for these two too, e-war wise. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Portmanteau oooh ponies 96	Posted - 2015.10.17 15:57:52 - [142] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Portmanteau wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Griffin Navy Issue Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 20% bonus to ECM strength Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to ECM Jammer activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 ! yay... another ship for tryhards to roll around in and anyone with any sense to just avoid engaging entirely. We really need less plex cancer not more fozzie -85% ecm range... ecm with a range of 4km, would you really waste a mid on that? 325 m/s... about the same speed as a merlin the only bonus on it that anyone can use is 20% dmg bonus. This is a piece of ****, if you want to do ecm get a griffin, or basically any ship that isn't this one. If you want to brawl get a merlin. The Griffin and the Crucifier are garbage, the vigil and the Maulus are pure cancer. wow balance When you are jammed you lose range control as well as damage, I get where you are coming from but it's not hard to jam a frigate. But I guess I'll reserve judgment on this until we get some reports from sisi, I am just hoping they don't all say "permajammed by navy griffin". It's not unusual for 2 low slot frigs to fit armor tank and fill mids with Ewar, if the ECM is effective enough then a dual web/point/ECM/prop fit will be quite nasty and certainly zero fun at all for anyone on the other end of it. I guess it depends alot on how long the opponent spends unable to lock.
Divine Entervention Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic 697	Posted - 2015.10.17 16:35:37 - [143] - Quote How fun is it for the griffin when he has no web/point to hold a guy down and he just warps away? Or when he's fit with 2 multi spectrals, a prop mod, a point, and web but misses every jam cycle and loses because he has zero tank? EWAR is like the ultimate game of chance. Not only do you have to fly properly, but you're giving up control of your fate to chance. That's balls. Balls should be rewarded.
Ray P State Protectorate Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.10.17 16:42:00 - [144] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: Portmanteau wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Griffin Navy Issue Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 20% bonus to ECM strength Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to ECM Jammer activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 ! yay... another ship for tryhards to roll around in and anyone with any sense to just avoid engaging entirely. We really need less plex cancer not more fozzie -85% ecm range... ecm with a range of 4km, would you really waste a mid on that? 325 m/s... about the same speed as a merlin the only bonus on it that anyone can use is 20% dmg bonus. This is a piece of ****, if you want to do ecm get a griffin, or basically any ship that isn't this one. If you want to brawl get a merlin. The Griffin and the Crucifier are garbage, the vigil and the Maulus are pure cancer. wow balance When you are jammed you lose range control as well as damage, I get where you are coming from but it's not hard to jam a frigate. But I guess I'll reserve judgment on this until we get some reports from sisi, I am just hoping they don't all say "permajammed by navy griffin". It's not unusual for 2 low slot frigs to fit armor tank and fill mids with Ewar, if the ECM is effective enough then a dual web/point/ECM/prop fit will be quite nasty and certainly zero fun at all for anyone on the other end of it. I guess it depends alot on how long the opponent spends unable to lock. i didn't notice the -85% range penalty on first reading this will be no use to anyone. I don't use ecm on unbonused hulls, everyone goes with damps or tracking disruptors instead, but this is worse than an unbonused, it's penalised.
Ray P State Protectorate Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.10.17 16:43:34 - [145] - Quote Divine Entervention wrote: How fun is it for the griffin when he has no web/point to hold a guy down and he just warps away? Or when he's fit with 2 multi spectrals, a prop mod, a point, and web but misses every jam cycle and loses because he has zero tank? EWAR is like the ultimate game of chance. Not only do you have to fly properly, but you're giving up control of your fate to chance. That's balls. Balls should be rewarded. but nobody will want to risk a faction frig on a coin toss. this is a terrible ship, they are all either horribly OP or utterly useless.
Ray P State Protectorate Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.10.17 17:01:51 - [146] - Quote Quote: Vigil Fleet Issue Minmatar Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion velocity 25% bonus to explosive missile damage, 20% bonus to em, thermal and kinetic missile damage Misc Bonus: +50% Stasis Webifier range Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 1 Turret, 2 Launchers 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 38 PWG, 190 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 525 / 525 / 425 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 300 / 150s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.2 / 1,080,000 / 5 / 4.79s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 660 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar Signature radius: 34 Can you confirm if the 'Missile' Damage bonus only applies to light missiles and not rockets?
Ylein Kashuken SQUIDS. 0	Posted - 2015.10.17 17:03:00 - [147] - Quote Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't navy ships meant as improved t1 versions? Vigil/Crucifier follow this example, but Griffin/Maulus are terrible. Maulus should have improved bonus to damps and drones, not to scram.. this will be very OP ship making it very demanded in LP store. Griffin is terrible. I guess you wanted to make some special and funny frigate, but why would someone risk flying this as solo ship when you have way better options, usage in fleet and small gang is almost none. Most ppl will prefer normal griffin. Not to speak that it won't be used and Caldari LP store will have another useless item in it. Solution for griffin is easy, place it between griffin and kitsune. For example: (per skill level) 17.5% Bonus to targeted ECM strenght 10% cap reduction for activation 5% optimal range bonus That way navy griffin will be between those two and caldari LP store will have good item that ppl might buy.
Portmanteau oooh ponies 97	Posted - 2015.10.17 17:06:20 - [148] - Quote Ray P wrote: i didn't notice the -85% range penalty on first reading this will be no use to anyone. I don't use ecm on unbonused hulls, everyone goes with damps or tracking disruptors instead, but this is worse than an unbonused, it's penalised. It gets 20% per level to ecm strength ....
Ray P State Protectorate Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.10.17 17:13:56 - [149] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: Ray P wrote: i didn't notice the -85% range penalty on first reading this will be no use to anyone. I don't use ecm on unbonused hulls, everyone goes with damps or tracking disruptors instead, but this is worse than an unbonused, it's penalised. It gets 20% per level to ecm strength .... woopie double strength ecm with 4km range then. so useful im sure
Portmanteau oooh ponies 97	Posted - 2015.10.17 17:18:45 - [150] - Quote Ray P wrote: Portmanteau wrote: Ray P wrote: i didn't notice the -85% range penalty on first reading this will be no use to anyone. I don't use ecm on unbonused hulls, everyone goes with damps or tracking disruptors instead, but this is worse than an unbonused, it's penalised. It gets 20% per level to ecm strength .... woopie double strength ecm with 4km range then. so useful im sure Dual web fit will keep target permanently in jam range. It will also keep target permanently in 20% per lvl blaster range. It will also slow target enough to use void. If you cant make use of that you should probably biomass.

Ray P State Protectorate Caldari State 4	Posted - 2015.10.17 17:39:03 - [151] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: Ray P wrote: Portmanteau wrote: Ray P wrote: i didn't notice the -85% range penalty on first reading this will be no use to anyone. I don't use ecm on unbonused hulls, everyone goes with damps or tracking disruptors instead, but this is worse than an unbonused, it's penalised. It gets 20% per level to ecm strength .... woopie double strength ecm with 4km range then. so useful im sure Dual web fit will keep target permanently in jam range. It will also keep target permanently in 20% per lvl blaster range. It will also slow target enough to use void. If you cant make use of that you should probably biomass. well for a start you'd need near perfect ecm skills and not many will have it, secondly you'll lose against missile brawlers and drone brawlers because drones and auto targets, which leaves turrets so i'd rather have a tracking disruptor than a ecm that only works in brawling range. so i guess all the people with no ecm skills should biomass then
Portmanteau oooh ponies 98	Posted - 2015.10.17 17:54:36 - [152] - Quote Ray P wrote: Portmanteau wrote: Ray P wrote: Portmanteau wrote: Ray P wrote: i didn't notice the -85% range penalty on first reading this will be no use to anyone. I don't use ecm on unbonused hulls, everyone goes with damps or tracking disruptors instead, but this is worse than an unbonused, it's penalised. It gets 20% per level to ecm strength .... woopie double strength ecm with 4km range then. so useful im sure Dual web fit will keep target permanently in jam range. It will also keep target permanently in 20% per lvl blaster range. It will also slow target enough to use void. If you cant make use of that you should probably biomass. well for a start you'd need near perfect ecm skills and not many will have it, secondly you'll lose against missile brawlers and drone brawlers because drones and auto targets, which leaves turrets so i'd rather have a tracking disruptor than a ecm that only works in brawling range. so i guess all the people with no ecm skills should biomass then How many solo pvpers you know pack FOF missiles ? They also do less damage, you also can't get FOF rockets (and most of your missile ship targets will be using rockets). As far as drones are concerned only the Tristan fields enough to really be an issue when you are pummeling the target with effective 4 void blasters a rocket launcher and a hobgoblin. Light missile condors ? They do so little damage you just wait until you get a jam off and leave. Hell I hope everyone thinks like you that these will be rubbish, I'll make good use of it .. in scram range fights it has potential to be a right orrible little b**** Edit worms may well still be too tough but then again everyone just avoids them and they are being nerfed heavily anyway so who knows how that will end up ?
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 151	Posted - 2015.10.17 18:02:53 - [153] - Quote Ray P wrote: Portmanteau wrote: Ray P wrote: Portmanteau wrote: Ray P wrote: i didn't notice the -85% range penalty on first reading this will be no use to anyone. I don't use ecm on unbonused hulls, everyone goes with damps or tracking disruptors instead, but this is worse than an unbonused, it's penalised. It gets 20% per level to ecm strength .... woopie double strength ecm with 4km range then. so useful im sure Dual web fit will keep target permanently in jam range. It will also keep target permanently in 20% per lvl blaster range. It will also slow target enough to use void. If you cant make use of that you should probably biomass. well for a start you'd need near perfect ecm skills and not many will have it, secondly you'll lose against missile brawlers and drone brawlers because drones and auto targets, which leaves turrets so i'd rather have a tracking disruptor than a ecm that only works in brawling range. so i guess all the people with no ecm skills should biomass then Navy Griffen is Merlin on steroid with Kitsune ECM level It has .25 effective turret more over Merlin (2 x100% vs 3x25%) It go 15m/s faster than merlin it has extra 150 raw shield hp And, it can use 1 light drone
Enslaved Mistress TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 112	Posted - 2015.10.17 18:17:10 - [154] - Quote Still no Caldari/Minmatar ships though huh. . . Wow. . .
Portmanteau oooh ponies 98	Posted - 2015.10.17 18:20:01 - [155] - Quote unidenify wrote: Navy Griffen is Merlin on steroid with Kitsune ECM level It has .25 effective turret more over Merlin (2 x100% vs 3x25%) It go 15m/s faster than merlin it has extra 150 raw shield hp And, it can use 1 light drone I'm fairly wobbly at working out stats without looking at EFT upon release but I seem to get 216 heated DPS with void (4 unbonused neutrons) plus 22 for a rocket launcher and another 20 from a hobgob. if that would fit that would be 258 dps plus the effective jam strength of a flight of light ecm drones from a 20%/lvl multispec ? It looks like a fit of damage control, AAR, compact AB, 2 X5 webs, J5B scram, Multispec jammer, 2 Neutrons, 1 Rocket launcher, 1 dmg rig, 2 resist rigs will just fit. Would appreciate anyone who can point out how far out this guesswork is ?
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 417	Posted - 2015.10.17 18:23:44 - [156] - Quote Quote: Minmatar Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion velocity 25% bonus to explosive missile damage, 20% bonus to em, thermal and kinetic missile damage Hilarious. Caldari still have kinetic lock because of reason. We'll never have proper balancing if you'll be doing it. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
tasman devil HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded 56	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:41:02 - [157] - Quote Hahnid wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Let us know what you think! That's what I think about the changes and ewar in general! So why do Minnies get web range, but Amarr no neut range? Years ago I thought of ewar something like this T1 Ewar (use for tactical advantage): Amarr - Tracking Disruption Minmatar - Target Painting Gallente - Sensor Dampening Caldari - ECM (with no range bonus, less strength or less midslots) T2 Ewar (use for disabling ships): Amarr - Energy Neutralizer Minmatar - Web (range) Gallente - Scramble (range) Caldari - ECM (range and strength) Geddon has neutrange? Caldari has the Scorpion? What's with Minmatar and Gallente? Dragoon has neutrange, too? Does this make sense? Do you get what I try to imply? So many questions, I know Was something like that before this tiericide nonsense. Now we have missile-spawning, droneboat Geddons (seriously: the f*?!?!) They are just patching holes instead of getting things back into order and more in line with lore. (ps. Lore MK.II should be imho: Amarr - med/long range laser+armour+ab Caldari - close range blaster+missile+shield+mwd Gallente - stand off drone+rails+armour+ab Minmatar - jack of all trades, master of none - projectile+mostly shield+mwd I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Perrdy Lady Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:49:18 - [158] - Quote So no gila nerf after all? I dont see it.
Nikolai Agnon Dirt 'n' Glitter Local Is Primary 35	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:05:22 - [159] - Quote Perrdy Lady wrote: So no gila nerf after all? I dont see it. Wrong thread; I think you're interested in the Balancing discussion over here.
Leonardo Adami Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 29	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:35:51 - [160] - Quote tasman devil wrote: Hahnid wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Let us know what you think! That's what I think about the changes and ewar in general! So why do Minnies get web range, but Amarr no neut range? Years ago I thought of ewar something like this T1 Ewar (use for tactical advantage): Amarr - Tracking Disruption Minmatar - Target Painting Gallente - Sensor Dampening Caldari - ECM (with no range bonus, less strength or less midslots) T2 Ewar (use for disabling ships): Amarr - Energy Neutralizer Minmatar - Web (range) Gallente - Scramble (range) Caldari - ECM (range and strength) Geddon has neutrange? Caldari has the Scorpion? What's with Minmatar and Gallente? Dragoon has neutrange, too? Does this make sense? Do you get what I try to imply? So many questions, I know Was something like that before this tiericide nonsense. Now we have missile-spawning, droneboat Geddons (seriously: the f*?!?!) They are just patching holes instead of getting things back into order and more in line with lore. (ps. Lore MK.II should be imho: Amarr - med/long range laser+armour+ab Caldari - close range blaster+missile+shield+mwd Gallente - stand off drone+rails+armour+ab Minmatar - jack of all trades, master of none - projectile+mostly shield+mwd It stands to reason that the races can will and should evolve over time. Given how long this game has been around then I see no problem ships evolving and changing.

Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 214	Posted - 2015.10.17 23:39:00 - [161] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: unidenify wrote: Navy Griffen is Merlin on steroid with Kitsune ECM level It has .25 effective turret more over Merlin (2 x100% vs 3x25%) It go 15m/s faster than merlin it has extra 150 raw shield hp And, it can use 1 light drone I'm fairly wobbly at working out stats without looking at EFT upon release but I seem to get 216 heated DPS with void (4 unbonused neutrons + a collision rig) plus 22 for a rocket launcher and another 20 from a hobgob. if that would fit that would be 258 dps plus the effective jam strength of a flight of light ecm drones from a 20%/lvl multispec ? It looks like a fit of damage control, AAR, compact AB, 2 X5 webs, J5B scram, Multispec jammer, 2 Neutrons, 1 Rocket launcher, 1 dmg rig, 2 resist rigs will just fit. Would appreciate anyone who can point out how far out this guesswork is ? the dps is nothing special for brawling with blasters, a T2 fit merlin can put out 270dps if you want it to with two webs, a scram, an ab and still have more tank than this at a fraction of the cost and the only difference is it doesn't have a gimped ecm module. the navy griffin has a tank of 2.7k ehp, + 2.4kehp from aar but it won't have enough cap for aar with 2 webs a scram an ecm and an ab to run plus it will dissolve against neuts even without the aar running so let's not go there. i wouldn't brawl in blaster range with a t1 frig with 2.7k ehp anyway, let alone a faction frig. I'd want an armor plate because the thing is made of paper and would probably be one or two shotted by most alpha fits, which means it will be even slower than it already is so it's going to need 2 webs, a scram, and an ab just to keep range in a brawl - I wouldn't be bothering with 22dps from an unbonused rocket launcher either when im trying to work in neut range. Since i'd want a neut myself (some proper ewar), and relying so heavily on cap for dps and running all my active modules i'd want a cap booster to make sure i don't get switched off after 10 seconds. so i don't even have a slot left for my gimped 4km range ecm module , and i definitely wouldn't swap a cap booster or a web for that. Even if the ecm wasn't gimped it's still **, but at least you have a chance of escaping kiters. It's not just bad - it's ***** awful, whoever designed it hasn't a clue what they're doing! Time will prove me right Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2015.10.17 23:41:03 - [162] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Hilarious. Caldari still have kinetic lock because of reason. We'll never have proper balancing if you'll be doing it. If the alternative is the **** DPS of the Cyclone you should probably be thankful. Travelling at the speed of love.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 214	Posted - 2015.10.17 23:48:04 - [163] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: How many solo pvpers you know pack FOF missiles ? All of the ones who know what they're doing, it's not just ecm either kiters like garmurs will want them to deal with damps as well. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 214	Posted - 2015.10.18 00:05:21 - [164] - Quote unidenify wrote: Navy Griffen is Merlin on steroid with Kitsune ECM level It has .25 effective turret more over Merlin (2 x100% vs 3x25%) It go 15m/s faster than merlin it has extra 150 raw shield hp And, it can use 1 light drone No it's not a merlin on steroids, i think your on drugs though Merlin has an extra low for Mag stab Merlin has a 4% level resist bonus so it has more tank Merlin doesn't need to use it's lows for armor tanking so it has another low slot to use Merlin is a fraction of the cost Kitsune has 76km optimal on it's ecm before fittings, the navy griffin will have 4km optimal. but it can use 1 light drone, with no spares. you're right about that much at least Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Portmanteau oooh ponies 99	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:53:57 - [165] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Portmanteau wrote: How many solo pvpers you know pack FOF missiles ? All of the ones who know what they're doing, it's not just ecm either kiters like garmurs will want them to deal with damps as well. Ok mate, I just looked at the last 10 garmur losses on zkill... not a single one had FoF missiles in cargo. Perhaps you are right and they should carry them, but they don't. Thing is, if you end up engaging a garmur in this new fangled griffin, you are doing it very wrong (or you just screwed up which happens). Your targets are going to be scram range frigates (or kitey frigs that you land on top of which melt super quick anyway). Of those scram range frigates which use missiles, they will be using rockets... there are no FoF rockets so your point doesn't make a lot of sense. This thing can easily be fit like other 2web frigates and rely on range, gank and ewar to cover the basic armor tank short comings. Think dual web hookbill, merlin, kestrel, heron, helios, breacher (yes, breacher). It has a lot of damage, that will be perfectly applied with 2 webs, it has equivalent to a flight of light ECM drones with a multispec jammer and with 2webs that's as much getthefeckout ability as you might want in a brawl that's going south. It can most likely fit a decent 2 web fit and shield extender/ASB tank as well. This will not be crap by any means. The thing that will **** ppl off is being jammed in a 1v1. It usually only happens when you get blobbed (at least to me anyway). If I see this griffin in a plex I will likely not engage as even if not perma jammed, being jammed at all is no fun and you know it's p much going to happen in a 1v1 against this. If I fly one, I expect a lot of people to just not bother taking the fight for the same reasons. I hope you are right tho and everyone thinks they are crud, I'm not averse to easy kills.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 215	Posted - 2015.10.18 03:32:20 - [166] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: I hope you are right tho and everyone thinks they are crud If this was just about ship balance or meta I could take it or leave it, but this is about faction war LP stores as well and they are already extremely imbalanced if you want to read the link in my sig. You might not care if anyone flies these or not, but calmil are relying on them to fund their pvp, and I already know these will not be used nearly as much as the Navy Vigil or the Navy Maulus, and you do too if you're honest. What this means is a bad LP store just got worse, and this is the same deal Caldari always get, we have the worst navy ships in game, calmil can't afford to field anything bigger than t1 cruisers while galmil mince around in pimped faction ships, and most of the farmers are in galmil grinding our systems.. So you can White knight for the devs like i've seen in every balance thread ever, but at the end of the day our LP store is a 1/3 of what Gallente's is so more often than not people like you who tell us everything is fine and our ships are going to be beeyootiful or outright OP are proven wrong. First of all ECM is not good for solo, and it's definitely not good for blaster range. It's for fleets, sitting behind your dps guys at least 70km off the enemy with rainbow jams and very little tank... this ******* thing can't do that, it can't even use ecm to push off kiters so most of it's bonuses are cancelled out by the ridiculous 85% range nerf. Whats left is a hull that's slower than the others, with only one usable bonus, no ewar bonus, less drones, slowest locking time (always nice on a brawling ship when a kiter warps in and burns past your scram range before you can get scram on him), basically gimped in every single way they could think of... it's clearly not going to be used. I mean you're right about the Garmur, this ship has no business engaging a garmur, but there really aren't many ships it can engage... kiters - no, scram kiters no, other navy frigs no, other navy ewar frigs no, cruisers and up no, t3D's hell no. I mean I'm pretty sure a lot of the t1 frigs will embarrass this, especially if you waste slots rolling with an ecm module in the hope you might get a jam off. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Portmanteau oooh ponies 99	Posted - 2015.10.18 03:56:46 - [167] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Portmanteau wrote: I hope you are right tho and everyone thinks they are crud If this was just about ship balance or meta I could take it or leave it, but this is about faction war LP stores as well and they are already extremely imbalanced if you want to read the link in my sig. You might not care if anyone flies these or not, but calmil are relying on them to fund their pvp, and I already know these will not be used nearly as much as the Navy Vigil or the Navy Maulus, and you do too if you're honest. What this means is a bad LP store just got worse, and this is the same deal Caldari always get, we have the worst navy ships in game, calmil can't afford to field anything bigger than t1 cruisers while galmil mince around in pimped faction ships, and most of the farmers are in galmil grinding our systems.. So you can White knight for the devs like i've seen in every balance thread ever, but at the end of the day our LP store is a 1/3 of what Gallente's is so more often than not people like you who tell us everything is fine and our ships are going to be beeyootiful or outright OP are proven wrong. First of all ECM is not good for solo, and it's definitely not good for blaster range. It's for fleets, sitting behind your dps guys at least 70km off the enemy with rainbow jams and very little tank... this ******* thing can't do that, it can't even use ecm to push off kiters so most of it's bonuses are cancelled out by the ridiculous 85% range nerf. Whats left is a hull that's slower than the others, with only one usable bonus, no ewar bonus, less drones, slowest locking time (always nice on a brawling ship when a kiter warps in and burns past your scram range before you can get scram on him), basically gimped in every single way they could think of... it's clearly not going to be used. I mean you're right about the Garmur, this ship has no business engaging a garmur, but there really aren't many ships it can engage... kiters - no, scram kiters no, other navy frigs no, other navy ewar frigs no, cruisers and up no, t3D's hell no. I mean I'm pretty sure a lot of the t1 frigs will embarrass this, especially if you waste slots rolling with an ecm module in the hope you might get a jam off. If you can't see how a 5 midslot frig with 20%/level hybrid bonus a launcher point and a drone is good then I can't help you. It's like a blaster/rail hookbill and it has a healthy ECM bonus too... I can't walk you through this anymore, they will sell ... EDIT : WHITE KNIGHT FOR THE DEVS... ARE YOU NUTS ? I'm about as negative whinging old git as you can get in this game and I've spent most of today and yesterday slagging off skillpoint selling and the frig balancing proposals :)
tasman devil HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded 56	Posted - 2015.10.18 08:23:43 - [168] - Quote Leonardo Adami wrote: tasman devil wrote: Hahnid wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Let us know what you think! That's what I think about the changes and ewar in general! So why do Minnies get web range, but Amarr no neut range? Years ago I thought of ewar something like this T1 Ewar (use for tactical advantage): Amarr - Tracking Disruption Minmatar - Target Painting Gallente - Sensor Dampening Caldari - ECM (with no range bonus, less strength or less midslots) T2 Ewar (use for disabling ships): Amarr - Energy Neutralizer Minmatar - Web (range) Gallente - Scramble (range) Caldari - ECM (range and strength) Geddon has neutrange? Caldari has the Scorpion? What's with Minmatar and Gallente? Dragoon has neutrange, too? Does this make sense? Do you get what I try to imply? So many questions, I know Was something like that before this tiericide nonsense. Now we have missile-spawning, droneboat Geddons (seriously: the f*?!?!) They are just patching holes instead of getting things back into order and more in line with lore. (ps. Lore MK.II should be imho: Amarr - med/long range laser+armour+ab Caldari - close range blaster+missile+shield+mwd Gallente - stand off drone+rails+armour+ab Minmatar - jack of all trades, master of none - projectile+mostly shield+mwd It stands to reason that the races can will and should evolve over time. Given how long this game has been around then I see no problem ships evolving and changing. I'd still opt for evolving in different ways: i.e. Tech 1 ships should stay in line with lore, Tech 2 ships should be against the "lore enemy", Tech 3 should be "situation dependent" like what they did with the T3Ds I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Desiderya Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 1062	Posted - 2015.10.18 10:29:07 - [169] - Quote The Navy Griffin as presented would be a very good ship even without ever using ECM. It is rather similar to a navy comet. As far as ECM not being good solo - I don't know in what world you are living, but a racial jam more or less guarantees you a successful hit on another frigate. Even if the first jam misses you end up fighting a ship that has very strong dps while having no range control whatsoever. So, yes, once in jam range,the fight is over. 20 seconds is a long time in face melt range. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Harreeb Alls Ministry of War Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2015.10.18 11:10:42 - [170] - Quote I'd prefer the racial tank bonus's over damage. They wont be very useful if the are outshined by ewar ships with much greater range,which translates to safety and survivability. Give them racial tank bonus, and mwd sig bonus, and ewar bonus and you might have something. O and tons of speed. The issue most frigs face in eve is anti tackle has become super strong. First there where the new t1 dessies algos ,talwar, dragoon,corax with drone or missiles they dumpster frigs at range. Now you have the buffed t2 dessiea, t3 dessies, buffed t1 cruiser, and faction cruisers. A lot of these move almost as fast as a frig, have excellent damage application to frigs, and range. As it stands now it is much harder to even stay on grid at 50km in light tackle compared to before fozzie ship balancing.Brawling ewar frigs with no tank or damage mitigation bonus's will be less useful then the choices currently available for ewar or brawling.

Nagarythe Tinurandir Cataclysm Enterprises Pandemic Legion 232	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:12:14 - [171] - Quote I'll chime right in with the "wedontneedthem" crowd. Or go all the way, proclaim powercreep and make a navy version of every T1 frig. Then, take responsibility and delete T1 frigs altogether. Eve already has a lot of ships, alot of them could use another balance pass. New ships should only be introduced, if they bring novel mechanics with them, especially on the frigate front. Differences between single ships start to become very small to the point were "meaningful choice" is just a buzzword and HULLSHAPEs are the new SKINs....
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 417	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:37:43 - [172] - Quote 13 new ships. 4 ewar frigs, 4 new destroyers. 5 left, pirate factions stuff? "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
Starbuck05 Warmongering Space Invaders Criminal Intentions. 331	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:49:00 - [173] - Quote the crucifier and grifin seem alright but the maulus and the vigil will be OP .. scram kite maulus .... and kite vigil ... epic Just because i am blond does not make me stoooopid ! Warmongering space Invaders PvP corp looking for pilots ( Low Sec )
Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 281	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:12:02 - [174] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: 13 new ships. 4 ewar frigs, 4 new destroyers. 5 left, pirate factions stuff? WHAT DESTROYERS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 295	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:21:36 - [175] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: 13 new ships. 4 ewar frigs, 4 new destroyers. 5 left, pirate factions stuff? 4 ewar navy frigs 4 destroyers 1 mining frigate thing So 4 left. Navy destroyers or tech 2 logi frigs. Please don't be tech 2 logi frigs.........
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2793	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:41:01 - [176] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: 13 new ships. 4 ewar frigs, 4 new destroyers. 5 left, pirate factions stuff? WHAT DESTROYERS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT No details, just vague planning
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 417	Posted - 2015.10.18 16:37:49 - [177] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: 4 ewar navy frigs 4 destroyers 1 mining frigate thing I forget about new ice mining frigate. So 4 left. If 4 left they will be 4 faction I presume. Ares Desideratus wrote: WHAT DESTROYERS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT New T2 destros are coming. Read the Eve updates "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
Charlie Nonoke Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 73	Posted - 2015.10.18 18:03:05 - [178] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: 13 new ships. 4 ewar frigs, 4 new destroyers. 5 left, pirate factions stuff? 4 ewar navy frigs 4 destroyers 1 mining frigate thing So 4 left. Navy destroyers or tech 2 logi frigs. Please don't be tech 2 logi frigs......... It is T2 logi frigs. Fozzie already said it in a YouTube video. https://youtu.be/X1R3tBoWtmc
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1147	Posted - 2015.10.18 19:19:49 - [179] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: 13 new ships. 4 ewar frigs, 4 new destroyers. 5 left, pirate factions stuff? 4 ewar navy frigs 4 destroyers 1 mining frigate thing So 4 left. Navy destroyers or tech 2 logi frigs. Please don't be tech 2 logi frigs......... I'm ok with t2 logi frigs if they can figure a way so they aren't overpowered like all the other logi ships in the game
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 503	Posted - 2015.10.18 22:30:50 - [180] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: Templar Dane wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: 13 new ships. 4 ewar frigs, 4 new destroyers. 5 left, pirate factions stuff? 4 ewar navy frigs 4 destroyers 1 mining frigate thing So 4 left. Navy destroyers or tech 2 logi frigs. Please don't be tech 2 logi frigs......... I'm ok with t2 logi frigs if they can figure a way so they aren't overpowered like all the other logi ships in the game t2 logi is just going to break the damn game. calvary logi here we go. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

O2 jayjay Sickology Together We Solo 32	Posted - 2015.10.18 23:21:10 - [181] - Quote Why MNI is the only one without Ewar bonus (damps)? Maybe scram range and damp strenght and remove drone tracking and HP? Sounds more balanced compared to the others Ewars instead of a tristian with scram range bonus. Doesnt it sound more daring and exciting to be 12-15 k from the enemy with your damps being effective in the same range? basically your fighting style is to stay close but if you venture too close a swift and certain death is sure to come. My 2-ó
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 315	Posted - 2015.10.19 00:01:42 - [182] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: man, not more recon bonuses :\ and why do I want +1 scram strength? shut up this is great.
Landrik Blake Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 10	Posted - 2015.10.19 00:37:23 - [183] - Quote That Maulus will be practically untouchable by anything with less than 15+km damage projection. Seems like an auto-win in frigate 1v1s, and will probably be capable of soloing most small ship classes and various cruiser hulls even without links.
Feodor Romanov Blitzkrieg Federation NEOS FLEET 23	Posted - 2015.10.19 01:18:08 - [184] - Quote Navy Crucifier is too slow to fight kiters; have not enough med slots and PG for dualprop fit; too bad tracking and TD optimal for Dis+beam fits. This ship would be effective only against slow mwd turret ships. That is very limited amount of targets. I think little buff will be good. For example speed boost to become "Amarrian Slasher" or role bonus to neuts and energy vamps to become t1 Sentinel. Navy Griffin Blasters+MWD+scr+web+multi ECM will be interesting. This ship is very powerfull in scram range and very vulnerable against dis range kiters. Navy Maulus MWD+Scr+Web is strong scram range kiter. Navy Vigil LML's+MWD+DIS+fed WEB+ASB would be extremely strong kiting solo PVP ship!
Avid Retta Via 3	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:01:01 - [185] - Quote Maulus Navy Issue - potential inclusion in high-sec gank fleets Potential 'cheap/throw-away' fit: -- High - nothing -- Mid = 2 x cheapest scrams, say Fleeting Progressives (no real need for Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I due to range and strength bonuses), some cheap prop mod -- Low = say 1/2? Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay (if required due to stability), a cheap plate, cheap Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane? -- Rigs = 0 -- Drones not required as you're already on the KM with the scrams -- Simply, a cheap-fit Maulus FI, in a Catalyst fleet with links and boosted can wreck havoc in Udema It also could potentially be the death of using Deep Space Transports in low - a single 3 scrammed fit maulus (9 points) > a 4 x WCS'd DST (6 points)
KitCat 01 Anime Masters Baka Legion 1	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:11:37 - [186] - Quote the navy Crucifier looks pretty useless unless you know you'll be able to counter your opponent the navy Griffin will just be another griffin, lets bring another ECM ship. Let's make people mad and see what happens the Maulus looks OP the Vigil could be fun, but the application bonus looks pretty weird to me, it doesn't add up to the rest.
Jackie Cane Chaos Gate 23	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:35:30 - [187] - Quote On the Navy Griffin the bonus for ECM optimal range says -- -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff so ECM only up to like 9 -11 km ?
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 410	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:37:57 - [188] - Quote KitCat 01 wrote: the navy Griffin will just be another griffin, lets bring another ECM ship. Let's make people mad and see what happens At least the Navy Griffin will have to come damn close to land it's jams with the -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff. That means if you fail one Jam, you are in Scram and Webrange of your opponent. And die very quickly. It will also be much harder to jam more than one target because of the range.
Portmanteau oooh ponies 135	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:42:25 - [189] - Quote LMFAO if this is how shortsighted everyone is about the navy Griffin, I am going to enjoy flying it.
Aries Stark Failure in Progress 0	Posted - 2015.10.19 05:59:17 - [190] - Quote Would have like to see faction hulls based on the t1 frigate logi, like with the cruiser class. i miss my missile inquisitor. will that be coming in the future? and are there any plans to expand the Battlecruiser class any? such as more T2 variants and possibly a pirate faction line with unique hulls? if i see another drake or brutix hull im gonna gouge out my eyeballs and feed them to my fedo. Almost half the ships in the game are frigates, do we really need more?

Luscius Uta 173	Posted - 2015.10.19 06:12:03 - [191] - Quote I always like to see new ships introduced to the game, but Empire LP stores have already been buffed when Navy Battlecruisers were introduced (and in addition to that, they offer 2 Navy Cruisers while Pirate LP stores offer only one). So I would be much happier if you introduced Pirate BCs and add them to Pirate LP stores instead. Drifters have arrived - The End is nigh!
Whisperen Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 46	Posted - 2015.10.19 11:00:47 - [192] - Quote If that Griffin is any indication the Blackbird Navy Issue will be a beast.
Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 281	Posted - 2015.10.19 13:08:56 - [193] - Quote Aries Stark wrote: Would have like to see faction hulls based on the t1 frigate logi, like with the cruiser class. i miss my missile inquisitor. will that be coming in the future? and are there any plans to expand the Battlecruiser class any? such as more T2 variants and possibly a pirate faction line with unique hulls? if i see another drake or brutix hull im gonna gouge out my eyeballs and feed them to my fedo. Almost half the ships in the game are frigates, do we really need more? Yes we do need more, because variety is the spice of life and because frigates are the only ship class in the game that are close to balanced!
Rek Seven Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering 2035	Posted - 2015.10.19 13:13:35 - [194] - Quote Isn't it about time that CCP stop adding ships that don't do anything new? I'm all for the new destroyer and logi frigates but personally, these new frigates add nothing to the game for me. Dear eve players, please try and use the word "content" less and instead, be specific. Thanks
Arla Sarain 677	Posted - 2015.10.19 13:33:02 - [195] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: Isn't it about time that CCP stop adding ships that don't do anything new? I'm all for the new destroyer and logi frigates but personally, these new frigates add nothing to the game for me. They add more stuff you wouldn't really want to engage solo. RE: Sentinel
Soldarius Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 1393	Posted - 2015.10.19 15:01:59 - [196] - Quote Griffin NI racial ECM range: 6.45 + 7.2km with all level 5s. Hue. Good luck jamming anything with this before you get scrammed and webbed. 9 Jam strength using racials before heat or links. Maybe you'll get really lucky and escape before your paper-tanked frigate blows away in the soft solar winds. But at least it has enough mids to carry a full rainbow rack. Crucifier NI Weapon DIsruptor range: 10.8+5.4km. RIP range disruption. That will be pointless. Tracking speed or missile application disruption will still work once you get into range. But lights will out range you so badly you probably won't survive to get into range. And the application on rockets is insanely good. Vigil NI can work with Javelin rockets. But why bother when lights gets 3x the range and nearly the same dps? With a 15km web before heat and links, it should be able to kite at long point range very well. So why ever brawl with it? Maulus NI looks good. 15km 3pt scrams before heat or links. But only 3 mids. So scram, prop, and either cap booster, web, or dual prop if it has the PG. Armor/speed tank the lows. Or use DDAs. 100dps with Hobgoblin IIs before any damage mods. 155 with 3x DDA IIs out to whatever your control range is. And with that 15km scram running, you should be able to scram kite all day. Not to mention it also has 2 turrets, so you can fit a pair of 150mm Railguns for another 50dps. Yes, they can hit to 15km using CN antimatter, though they will be at falloff. Maybe bring Lead or Thorium for best optimal range matching. Fortunately, the fitting resources look like they won't be able to support all that. tl;dr: The range penalties on the Griffin and Crucifier are crippling. Maybe cut back on that a little? 75%? 67%? 85% too much. Why is the Vigil NI a better kiter than a brawler? Rockets need a range boost. Like 50% more range in all categories. 200 dps on Maulus NI with a 15km 3pt scram is very strong. But maybe balanced by fitting. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Cearain Goose Swarm Coalition 1404	Posted - 2015.10.19 15:04:37 - [197] - Quote I see the griffin as a risk free kite ship. If it gets caught by a brawler it can just get a jam on it and hit the mwd for rail tracking. I don't get the crucifier at all. Nerfing the range of disruptors is really counterintuitive. It's like having blasters that track like rails. It does very much seem like ccp wants off grid boosted garmurs to remain king of fw plexes. They weren't nerfed at all in the proposed balance pass and none of these ships will be able to touch them. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 382	Posted - 2015.10.19 15:29:28 - [198] - Quote Reading this feedback on the navy griffin makes me sad, why cant people read stats at all? Just to compare, Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 Thats more shield, armor and equal hull then a kestrel, its just a tiny bit less tanky then a hookbill (which as we all know, is a very tanky ship), it also has more fitting then a hookbill (by a bit). (all fits are guesses, migth not fit, might not be the best, time will tell) So [Griffin navy issue, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I 1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket Small Ancillary Current Router II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender II Hobgoblin II Can most likely swap a web for a jammer or sort, making this a total pita to fight if needed. This will have around 6.3-6.8k ish ehp, 182dps at 6km, which isnt that bad. But its bonus is oriented towards in your face brawling So [Griffin navy issue, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I 1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Light Neutron Blaster II Light Neutron Blaster II Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Hobgoblin II Again, second web can be any ewar mod, although i dont like ecm. 308 dps, 6.5k ish ehp + double web is a good navy ffrigate, it isnt op but it isnt bad either. And if you really cared to, 10k ehpish dual mse fits that still do over 200dps are also possible.
Forrae Deren Wraith.Wing Get Off My Lawn 0	Posted - 2015.10.19 16:30:58 - [199] - Quote Jackie Cane wrote: On the Navy Griffin the bonus for ECM optimal range says -- -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff so ECM only up to like 9 -11 km ? well considering the hybrid dmg bonus, id say itll likely be fit as some sort of ECM brawler. seems interesting to me.
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 0	Posted - 2015.10.19 16:50:47 - [200] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: Reading this feedback on the navy griffin makes me sad, why cant people read stats at all? I know right ? I think some ppl base their assumptions (that it will be a weak tank, **** dps etc) on the fact it's called a griffin and don't even bother looking at slot layout, bonuses etc. I think the Navy Griffin has a lot of potential, like a hookbill with hybrids and an ECM bonus, you can do quite a lot with this I think.

ColdBeauty oooh ponies 0	Posted - 2015.10.19 16:53:33 - [201] - Quote Cearain wrote: I see the griffin as a risk free kite ship. If it gets caught by a brawler it can just get a jam on it and hit the mwd for rail tracking. Nah, not with the ECM -85% optimal, it will be a brawler with ECM strength bonus and enough mids to have 2 webs or TD or a multispec or whatever.
Lost touch Mining Industry Exile Foundation Warlords of the Deep 26	Posted - 2015.10.19 17:48:48 - [202] - Quote +1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Coz it needed that rite? Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 833	Posted - 2015.10.19 18:57:35 - [203] - Quote M.N.I.!!! Hello new fleet tackler! Considering they are coming out with new Missile Disrupters mods, why didn't they make at least one of these ship bonused to those? Oh, and Navy EWAR firgs were all they could come up with? Hello! Navy Destroyers!!
Soldarius Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 1393	Posted - 2015.10.19 19:39:16 - [204] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: M.N.I.!!! Considering they are coming out with new Missile Disrupters mods, why didn't they make at least one of these ship bonused to those? There is this thing called the Imperial Navy Crucifier. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 54	Posted - 2015.10.19 20:24:55 - [205] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Estella Osoka wrote: M.N.I.!!! Considering they are coming out with new Missile Disrupters mods, why didn't they make at least one of these ship bonused to those? There is this thing called the Imperial Navy Crucifier. To clarify for others: Missile disruptors will use Target Disruption skills and bonuses so that is why the Crucifier Navy Issue fills the role with its Weapon Disruption bonus.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 833	Posted - 2015.10.19 20:38:00 - [206] - Quote Terra Chrall wrote: Soldarius wrote: Estella Osoka wrote: M.N.I.!!! Considering they are coming out with new Missile Disrupters mods, why didn't they make at least one of these ship bonused to those? There is this thing called the Imperial Navy Crucifier. To clarify for others: Missile disruptors will use Target Disruption skills and bonuses so that is why the Crucifier Navy Issue fills the role with its Weapon Disruption bonus. Really? Totally missed that.
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 5	Posted - 2015.10.19 23:35:37 - [207] - Quote Lost touch wrote: +1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Coz it needed that rite? There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 216	Posted - 2015.10.19 23:35:56 - [208] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: Reading this feedback on the navy griffin makes me sad, why cant people read stats at all? Just to compare, Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 Thats more shield, armor and equal hull then a kestrel, its just a tiny bit less tanky then a hookbill (which as we all know, is a very tanky ship), it also has more fitting then a hookbill (by a bit). (all fits are guesses, migth not fit, might not be the best, time will tell) So [Griffin navy issue, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I 1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket Small Ancillary Current Router II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender II Hobgoblin II Can most likely swap a web for a jammer or sort, making this a total pita to fight if needed. This will have around 6.3-6.8k ish ehp, 182dps at 6km, which isnt that bad. But its bonus is oriented towards in your face brawling So [Griffin navy issue, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I 1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Light Neutron Blaster II Light Neutron Blaster II Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Hobgoblin II Again, second web can be any ewar mod, although i dont like ecm. 308 dps, 6.5k ish ehp + double web is a good navy ffrigate, it isnt op but it isnt bad either. And if you really cared to, 10k ehpish dual mse fits that still do over 200dps are also possible. First of all the hookbill is not especially tanky, it's actually got the least EHP out of the existing navy frigates and has the least fitting resources to fit a tank. Most of it's fits rely on dual webs to keep it at the edge of scram range where it still gets totally owned by the rail comet, and soon the Navy Vigil will be better than it in every way as well. It's also slowest and has the biggest sig radius and lowest dps so there's that too, no surprise to me it's the least used of all the Navy frigates but I'm sure you'll try to tell me it's fabulous anyway. As for the Navy Griffin if those fits work they are better than what i imagined but your DCU costs 9mil, it's a sitting duck for kiters, and it's nowhere near the same level of power as the Fleet Vigil or the Navy Maulus. The Navy Griffin and the Crucifier Navy Issue are both way behind the other two, and that's the whole point. Fleet Vigil Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I 5MN Microwarpdrive II X5 Prototype Engine Enervator Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile [Empty High slot] Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II 3800m/s cold almost uncatchable because of the 20km overheated defensive web. 100dps with light missiles, 38km range, and application bonus still has a enough tank to deal with most things that might be able to hit it at kite range with links and faction mods that's low sec cancer. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1148	Posted - 2015.10.19 23:44:13 - [209] - Quote hookbill would be better if it had more fitting and if there were more appealling options for multiple slot shield tanks on frigs. it has no fitting even with 1 extender/masb, I can't somehow come up with the fitting for a second one, so that means it's always going to be doing 2 web, even though that's what you usually want to do so you can abuse rage rockets against ab frigs.
Teddy KGB Stand Alone Forces 6	Posted - 2015.10.20 00:03:02 - [210] - Quote OMG there is so much EW ships in this game already. Why don't you guys realy give us T2 Logi frigates with tinny signature radius. Why u make another EW frigates when we have Electronic Attack Ships??

Marcuis Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans 5	Posted - 2015.10.20 03:45:36 - [211] - Quote They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while.... [URL=http://s284.photobucket.com/user/Zuminor/media/marcsigcopy-13.gif.html][IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll34/Zuminor/marcsigcopy-13.gif[/IMG][/URL]
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 1080	Posted - 2015.10.20 06:55:09 - [212] - Quote ColdBeauty wrote: There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended. Now that DSTs are a thing, it may be related more than just to stabbed FW ships. Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 216	Posted - 2015.10.20 07:15:32 - [213] - Quote Marcuis wrote: They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while.... The Vigil is a poor mans garmur, horribly broken. Imagine what low sec would look like if Garmurs cost 10mil isk... well we're about to find out. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1148	Posted - 2015.10.20 11:14:24 - [214] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Marcuis wrote: They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while.... The Vigil is a poor mans garmur, horribly broken. Imagine what low sec would look like if Garmurs cost 10mil isk... well we're about to find out. except garmurs do 50% more missile dps
Cearain Goose Swarm Coalition 1408	Posted - 2015.10.20 11:30:57 - [215] - Quote ColdBeauty wrote: Cearain wrote: I see the griffin as a risk free kite ship. If it gets caught by a brawler it can just get a jam on it and hit the mwd for rail tracking. Nah, not with the ECM -85% optimal, it will be a brawler with ECM strength bonus and enough mids to have 2 webs or TD or a multispec or whatever. The -85% is why I thought of the ecm as a get out of jail free card. You don't use them unless someone scrams you. 2 multi ecm shield disruptor an mwd in mids. If you are fighting another kiter you may want to move in close and get some jams to win the dps versus tank battle. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 5	Posted - 2015.10.20 11:36:53 - [216] - Quote Cearain wrote: ColdBeauty wrote: Cearain wrote: I see the griffin as a risk free kite ship. If it gets caught by a brawler it can just get a jam on it and hit the mwd for rail tracking. Nah, not with the ECM -85% optimal, it will be a brawler with ECM strength bonus and enough mids to have 2 webs or TD or a multispec or whatever. The -85% is why I thought of the ecm as a get out of jail free card. You don't use them unless someone scrams you. 2 multi ecm shield disruptor an mwd in mids. If you are fighting another kiter you may want to move in close and get some jams to win the dps versus tank battle. Hmm see what you mean, don't see many using it like that tho as it would probably get 2/3 shotted if the jam doesn't land, reckon scram range brawler fits with 2webz and/or TD/ECM. The ECM would be more effective with a bit of tank to back it up if it doesn't land. I do get that you are seeing it as "last resort" though.
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 5	Posted - 2015.10.20 11:39:34 - [217] - Quote Barrogh Habalu wrote: ColdBeauty wrote: There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended. Now that DSTs are a thing, it may be related more than just to stabbed FW ships. I have flu and I'm missing the acronym, could you spell it out a bit for a sick simpleton please ?
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 247	Posted - 2015.10.20 12:09:28 - [218] - Quote ColdBeauty wrote: Barrogh Habalu wrote: ColdBeauty wrote: There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended. Now that DSTs are a thing, it may be related more than just to stabbed FW ships. I have flu and I'm missing the acronym, could you spell it out a bit for a sick simpleton please ? Deep Space Transports. They have a native +2 warp core strength. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 217	Posted - 2015.10.20 12:17:59 - [219] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: Again, second web can be any ewar mod, although i dont like ecm. 308 dps, 6.5k ish ehp + double web is a good navy ffrigate, it isnt op but it isnt bad either. And if you really cared to, 10k ehpish dual mse fits that still do over 200dps are also possible. [Federation Navy Comet, Federation Navy Comet fit] Damage Control II Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN Afterburner II X5 Prototype Engine Enervator J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Transverse Bulkhead I Small Transverse Bulkhead I Small Transverse Bulkhead I Hobgoblin II x3 Hobgoblin II x3 350dps 6.7k ehp + 2.4k ehp from aar + another 20ehp/s when paste runs out 1276m/s cold 1679m/s with heat How does a Navy Griffin compete with that? The rail comet is even better. [Merlin, Merlin fit] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Medium Shield Extender II 1MN Afterburner II X5 Prototype Engine Enervator Warp Scrambler II Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I 270dps 6.23k ehp The ship+fit costs less than your dcu The Navy Griffin is fail, Navy Crucifier looks even worse, Navy Maulus is excellent bordering OP, Fleet Vigil is cancerous OP. There's no justification for penalizing the EWAR on the first two and giving the other two faster hulls with long range weapons and range bonuses on their EWAR. It's so stupid that ecm and td's works better on non bonused hulls than it is on these so called ewar firgates. Remove the range penalty on the Navy griffin and you can fit one ECM module in place of the second web, you have a good ship that can brawl nicely with the chance of getting a jam in somewhere during a fight, but the biggest benefit of having the ecm on a brawling ship is to have a chance of escaping from kite scum. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 217	Posted - 2015.10.20 12:19:05 - [220] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: Marcuis wrote: They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while.... The Vigil is a poor mans garmur, horribly broken. Imagine what low sec would look like if Garmurs cost 10mil isk... well we're about to find out. except garmurs do 50% more missile dps So it will take them a little bit longer to kill their utterly helpless prey EDIT: also Vigil has 15m3 of drones Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1148	Posted - 2015.10.20 12:24:50 - [221] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: TrouserDeagle wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: Marcuis wrote: They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while.... The Vigil is a poor mans garmur, horribly broken. Imagine what low sec would look like if Garmurs cost 10mil isk... well we're about to find out. except garmurs do 50% more missile dps So it will take them a little bit longer to kill their utterly helpless prey carry a depot, refit to stabs. this is the only way to deal with untouchable kitescum, and it makes them mad as hell like you've done something dishonourable.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 218	Posted - 2015.10.20 12:29:42 - [222] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: carry a depot, refit to stabs. this is the only way to deal with untouchable kitescum, and it makes them mad as hell like you've done something dishonourable. I still think that's insane power for a Navy Frigate to have, but I like your thinking on the depot will try that out some time Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 283	Posted - 2015.10.20 12:30:08 - [223] - Quote Carrying a depot and refitting for stabs has nothing to do with whether the ship is balanced or not. Navy Maulus will laugh at your stabs anyway
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 5	Posted - 2015.10.20 12:45:26 - [224] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: carry a depot, refit to stabs. this is the only way to deal with untouchable kitescum, and it makes them mad as hell like you've done something dishonourable.
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 5	Posted - 2015.10.20 12:47:30 - [225] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: ColdBeauty wrote: Barrogh Habalu wrote: ColdBeauty wrote: There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended. Now that DSTs are a thing, it may be related more than just to stabbed FW ships. I have flu and I'm missing the acronym, could you spell it out a bit for a sick simpleton please ? Deep Space Transports. They have a native +2 warp core strength. I guess, bit of a stretch tho. A new faction warfare supplied navy frigate comes double points bonus on scrams, pretty much safe to say that's aimed at stabbed farmers.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 219	Posted - 2015.10.20 13:05:16 - [226] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Carrying a depot and refitting for stabs has nothing to do with whether the ship is balanced or not. Navy Maulus will laugh at your stabs anyway There is that, the Navy Griffin only has 2 low slots and the Maulus will have 3 scram strength Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 219	Posted - 2015.10.20 13:13:23 - [227] - Quote I still don't see why the EWAR on the Griffin and the Crucifier needs to be nerfed at all, they would be at the same level as the other two if it wasn't for that stupid penalty and they could all be easily balanced by making them much more expensive than the combat navy frigs. Maybe if they cost 20k lp + chip + about 10million isk + t1 hull they wouldn't be as poisonous... but the Navy Griffin and the Navy Crucifier that's being proposed are worse than the existing navy frigs so there's no way you could sell them at a higher price. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 283	Posted - 2015.10.20 13:24:45 - [228] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: I still don't see why the EWAR on the Griffin and the Crucifier needs to be nerfed at all, they would be at the same level as the other two if it wasn't for that stupid penalty and they could all be easily balanced by making them much more expensive than the combat navy frigs. Maybe if they cost 20k lp + chip + about 10million isk + t1 hull they wouldn't be as poisonous... but the Navy Griffin and the Navy Crucifier that's being proposed are worse than the existing navy frigs so there's no way you could sell them at a higher price. I think I agree about the penalty on their ewars. It does seem like someone at CCP had a love affair with Navy Maulus and Fleet Vigil and the other two just got left behind. Why give two of them bonuses to range and then purposely butcher the range on the other two? Does that really make sense ? Would they be the OP ones if they had normal range ewar instead of completely gimped range? But making them cost more isn't a real balancing strategy.
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1150	Posted - 2015.10.20 13:42:00 - [229] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Carrying a depot and refitting for stabs has nothing to do with whether the ship is balanced or not. Navy Maulus will laugh at your stabs anyway navy maulus won't be out of damage range of any non-garbage scram kiter there are a bunch of broken kiting ships, of course they're unbalanced, this is just the only way to deal with them other than flying a gimp fit and betting on their stupidity.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 220	Posted - 2015.10.20 14:20:10 - [230] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: I still don't see why the EWAR on the Griffin and the Crucifier needs to be nerfed at all, they would be at the same level as the other two if it wasn't for that stupid penalty and they could all be easily balanced by making them much more expensive than the combat navy frigs. Maybe if they cost 20k lp + chip + about 10million isk + t1 hull they wouldn't be as poisonous... but the Navy Griffin and the Navy Crucifier that's being proposed are worse than the existing navy frigs so there's no way you could sell them at a higher price. I think I agree about the penalty on their ewars. It does seem like someone at CCP had a love affair with Navy Maulus and Fleet Vigil and the other two just got left behind. Why give two of them bonuses to range and then purposely butcher the range on the other two? Does that really make sense ? Would they be the OP ones if they had normal range ewar instead of completely gimped range? But making them cost more isn't a real balancing strategy. That's a bit of an overused cliche around here, if pirate frigs cost the same as t1 frigs nobody would fly t1 frigs so cost is definitely a component of balance, it's just not enough on it's own to hold OP ships down. But These ships are all over the place, 2 of them are worse than the existing Navy frigs and two of them are much better... so where to set the price? If they are more expensive only a tool would use a Navy Griffin or Navy Crucifier when you can get better ships for cheaper, but if they are the same price or similar then the skies will soon be thick with Maulus Navy Issues and Fleet Vigils. Eventually everyone will demand a nerf but by then Galmil and Farmattar will have cashed out a few trillion isk worth of lp on them further widening the gap between the millitias - not because of players but because of ccp putting one side at a huge financial disadvantage. This is why I'm most annoyed about it, not just ship balance but the LP markets are ****** up enough already and they need to be redressed but this will just going to tilt the field even more in favour of Galmil who already cash out more LP from the Vexor Navy Issue than cal mil get for their entire lineup. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.

Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 283	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:46:29 - [231] - Quote The idea should be to have these frigates cost the same as other navy frigates while being as balanced as possible. Just making the OP ones more expensive and hoping it evens out is a terrible idea. If you look at the ewar progression of the Maulus and Vigil, Maulus gets damps, Vigil gets TPs, Navy maulus gets scram range, Fleet Vigil gets web range, so I think it might be better to give the Navy Crucifier a neut range bonus. Sure this infringes on Sentinel territory a bit, but the scram range bonus of the navy maulus infringes with the bonus on the keres to a certain extent as well, and the fact that Sentinel is a drone ship and navy Crucifier is a laser ship is enough of a differential to justify it. Then they can swap the bonus on the Crucifier and Sentinel for weapon disruption instead of just tracking disruption, and give them each a full drone bay while they're at it.
Vailen Sere the oasis group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 12	Posted - 2015.10.21 22:31:11 - [232] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hello one and all! We are planning a big set of ship and module updates for this Winter, including 13 new ships, module tiericide and much more. This thread will introduce 4 of the new ships, a new line of Empire Navy Ewar Frigates. These ships are designed to use their racial ewar bonuses (primary ewar for Amarr and Caldari, secondary for Gallente and Minmatar) in unusual ways, skewed towards solo and microgang combat. Overall we don't expect these ships to eclipse Electronic Attack Frigates for fleet support roles, but the combination of ewar with significant frigate damage puts them into their own category. These ships will be available in all standard combat LP stores for their respective factions. Crucifier Navy Issue Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Weapon Disruptor effectiveness Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to Weapon Disruptor optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to Weapon Disruptor activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 2 Turret 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 42 PWG, 180 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 375 / 600 / 525 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 500 / 250s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 340 / 3.35 / 1,064,000 / 5 / 4.94s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 20 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64km / 640 / 5 Sensor strength: 14 Radar Signature radius: 38 Griffin Navy Issue Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 20% bonus to ECM strength Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to ECM Jammer activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 Maulus Navy Issue Gallente Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Drone tracking and hitpoints 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Misc Bonus: +1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Slot layout: 2 H, 3 M, 4 L, 2 Turret 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 35 PWG, 150 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 450 / 525 / 600 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 330 / 165s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.35 / 1,063,000 / 5 / 4.94s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km / 620 / 5 Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric Signature radius: 42 Vigil Fleet Issue Minmatar Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion velocity 25% bonus to explosive missile damage, 20% bonus to em, thermal and kinetic missile damage Misc Bonus: +50% Stasis Webifier range Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 1 Turret, 2 Launchers 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 38 PWG, 190 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 525 / 525 / 425 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 300 / 150s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.2 / 1,080,000 / 5 / 4.79s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 660 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar Signature radius: 34 Let us know what you think! WIth these ranges.. Does the navy Griffin have the range to Jam the Navy maulus pointing her? Is the Crucifier going to be kibble to any long range kiter? Frigate vs frigate could be very interesting.. but while I understand not makeing any more long raneg ew-ar platforms, I dont know if these would survive intact to get into brawl range.. when are they hitting Sisi?
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1649	Posted - 2015.10.22 04:47:11 - [233] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: I think I agree about the penalty on their ewars. It does seem like someone at CCP had a love affair with Navy Maulus and Fleet Vigil and the other two just got left behind. Why give two of them bonuses to range and then purposely butcher the range on the other two? Does that really make sense ? Would they be the OP ones if they had normal range ewar instead of completely gimped range? But making them cost more isn't a real balancing strategy. It makes perfect sense when you have 2 EWAR types with over 4x the range of the other 2 before considering falloff, which webs and scrams don't have at all.
xXxNIMRODxXx Calibrated Chaos Habitual Chaos 34	Posted - 2015.10.22 06:55:14 - [234] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Let us know what you think! ... I think you forgot to add resistance parameters to the ships..
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 12	Posted - 2015.10.22 11:16:49 - [235] - Quote Vailen Sere wrote: WIth these ranges.. Does the navy Griffin have the range to Jam the Navy maulus pointing her? Yes if it uses a dual web fit and can land it on the NM
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 223	Posted - 2015.10.22 11:24:41 - [236] - Quote ColdBeauty wrote: Vailen Sere wrote: WIth these ranges.. Does the navy Griffin have the range to Jam the Navy maulus pointing her? Yes if it uses a dual web fit and can land it on the NM dual web fit + ecm = no tank, won't live long enough to close range and wait for a jam Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 12	Posted - 2015.10.22 11:36:01 - [237] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: ColdBeauty wrote: Vailen Sere wrote: WIth these ranges.. Does the navy Griffin have the range to Jam the Navy maulus pointing her? Yes if it uses a dual web fit and can land it on the NM dual web fit + ecm = no tank, won't live long enough to close range and wait for a jam one web a shield tank and a speed rig would also do it id you start the fight properly also the Griffin puts out quite a bit of damage. Also seeing as hybrid tanks are a thing now I would not be surprised to see someone make that work... obviously this all need testing on sis as stats only tell part of the story, they tell you where you fits might start but testing says where it will of course
Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 284	Posted - 2015.10.22 13:32:46 - [238] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: It makes perfect sense when you have 2 EWAR types with over 4x the range of the other 2 before considering falloff, which webs and scrams don't have at all. So all weapons disruptors and other electronic warfare should be nerfed to the same range? Or is it just a silly gimmick designed specifically for these two ships?
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 298	Posted - 2015.10.22 17:06:56 - [239] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: It makes perfect sense when you have 2 EWAR types with over 4x the range of the other 2 before considering falloff, which webs and scrams don't have at all. scram/web isn't exactly ewar.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1657	Posted - 2015.10.22 21:42:45 - [240] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: It makes perfect sense when you have 2 EWAR types with over 4x the range of the other 2 before considering falloff, which webs and scrams don't have at all. So all weapons disruptors and other electronic warfare should be nerfed to the same range? Or is it just a silly gimmick designed specifically for these two ships? Yes, when you are trying to create a series of ships with ewar effects in the same range profile it makes sense to make them fit that range profile. Does it mean that they should always act at the same range? No, and nothing about nerfing the ranges on 2 ships designed around limited effective EWAR ranges insinuates that. Templar Dane wrote: scram/web isn't exactly ewar. EWAR ship bonuses seem to suggest otherwise, though, in principle what's to say that preventing something from warping or moving as well is fundamentally different from preventing locking or shooting as well?

Aries Stark Failure in Progress 0	Posted - 2015.10.22 23:25:31 - [241] - Quote Two boats getting reduced range on EWAR Two boats getting Increased range on EWAR. Can you not give 2 boats an unjustified advantage? Vigil getting web range and maulus getting disruptor/scram range sets them above not only their new counterparts, but pre-existing boats aswell. Keep them with their primary function, Target painter and Sensor Damps.
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 302	Posted - 2015.10.23 05:27:30 - [242] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: EWAR ship bonuses seem to suggest otherwise, though, in principle what's to say that preventing something from warping or moving as well is fundamentally different from preventing locking or shooting as well? racial ewar caldari = ecm gallente = damps minmatar = painters amarr = TDs Recons and EAFs get a secondary bonus to 'utlity' modules, minus caldari who double up on ecm. gallente = points minmatar = webs amarr = nos/neut It would make far more sense for the amarr ship to have neut range.
Lucy Alfrir The Lost Shadows 3	Posted - 2015.10.23 06:45:47 - [243] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: ColdBeauty wrote: Barrogh Habalu wrote: ColdBeauty wrote: There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended. Now that DSTs are a thing, it may be related more than just to stabbed FW ships. I have flu and I'm missing the acronym, could you spell it out a bit for a sick simpleton please ? Deep Space Transports. They have a native +2 warp core strength. If you are relying on your warp core strength to get your DST safely thru lowsec you are doing it wrong!! Also one of these frigs will last about 3 volleys of gateguns. In null you have bubbles anyway. Shouldn't really have any effect on DSTs, stabbed campers tho...
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 223	Posted - 2015.10.23 08:40:40 - [244] - Quote I like that Caldari are finally getting a Hybrid navy ship, but I don't like that all it's bonuses are in ECM and then the ECM is gimpeed to the point where it's less useful than it would be on a non bonused ship, what the fk is the point of that? Caldari are the sniper specialists, they should be getting a hull with range bonuses - not range nerfs. An ECM griffin with bonus to rail guns would be more caldari style Griffin Navy Issue Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Optimal range Misc Bonus: 100% bonus to ECM strength The Navy Crucifier is even worse, if they are going to be shoe horned into brawling they should have full range on their td's so they can load range disruption scripts and force missile/turret boats to come into their engagement range or bugger off. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Arla Sarain 686	Posted - 2015.10.23 12:40:55 - [245] - Quote Consider giving the crucifier a neut bonus with -range. The implication being that it would have to keep dunking into close range where lasers can lose due to tracking.
Vailen Sere The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 12	Posted - 2015.10.23 18:41:53 - [246] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: EWAR ship bonuses seem to suggest otherwise, though, in principle what's to say that preventing something from warping or moving as well is fundamentally different from preventing locking or shooting as well? racial ewar caldari = ecm gallente = damps minmatar = painters amarr = TDs Recons and EAFs get a secondary bonus to 'utlity' modules, minus caldari who double up on ecm. gallente = points minmatar = webs amarr = nos/neut It would make far more sense for the amarr ship to have neut range. Your "Double up" ECM ships are the only truly effective ones in game that involves small gang combat. Looking at the stats, the Navy griffen might be able to pull its own better than the griffen, but that range cut might nueter it to the point a tristan can just get in close and slam it to death. The damage is always a distant 3rd on an ECM platform. It isn't there to do damage. It is there to Jam. Small gang frigate group.. this might be real fun to fly.. or not. I agree on a rnage cut, but I'm thinking at 15% total range, this would put Jams at the same range as blasters, which with no tank = 1 quickly dead ECM ship which will be insta-primary. I'd also get rid of a high and add a medium slot at least for a little tank.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1667	Posted - 2015.10.23 20:30:32 - [247] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: EWAR ship bonuses seem to suggest otherwise, though, in principle what's to say that preventing something from warping or moving as well is fundamentally different from preventing locking or shooting as well? racial ewar caldari = ecm gallente = damps minmatar = painters amarr = TDs Recons and EAFs get a secondary bonus to 'utlity' modules, minus caldari who double up on ecm. gallente = points minmatar = webs amarr = nos/neut It would make far more sense for the amarr ship to have neut range. Webs and point/scrams are listed under electronic warfare, nos/neuts are not. There is no "utility" module section that the latter set of mods fall under, thus I'm not sure where this classification comes from. Though admittedly that makes my prior statement off regarding cap warfare mods.
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 15	Posted - 2015.10.23 21:26:13 - [248] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Templar Dane wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: EWAR ship bonuses seem to suggest otherwise, though, in principle what's to say that preventing something from warping or moving as well is fundamentally different from preventing locking or shooting as well? racial ewar caldari = ecm gallente = damps minmatar = painters amarr = TDs Recons and EAFs get a secondary bonus to 'utlity' modules, minus caldari who double up on ecm. gallente = points minmatar = webs amarr = nos/neut It would make far more sense for the amarr ship to have neut range. Webs and point/scrams are listed under electronic warfare, nos/neuts are not. There is no "utility" module section that the latter set of mods fall under, thus I'm not sure where this classification comes from. Though admittedly that makes my prior statement off regarding cap warfare mods. I think it's all E-war.
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 1489	Posted - 2015.10.24 01:22:56 - [249] - Quote Great, more overpowered ships... powercreep is bad. Don't release this ships. The Tears Must Flow
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 304	Posted - 2015.10.24 02:36:18 - [250] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Webs and point/scrams are listed under electronic warfare, nos/neuts are not. There is no "utility" module section that the latter set of mods fall under, thus I'm not sure where this classification comes from. Though admittedly that makes my prior statement off regarding cap warfare mods. If you look at the bonuses the different races get in their tech 1 lineup, and then look at what those modules do......and consider that neuts/webs/scrams are things that we fit on our ships regardless of bonuses.....damps/TDs/painters/ecm are a completely different animal. The navy crucifier getting a TD bonus is really odd. It should stay as is but with the TD bonuses removed. Give it a long range neut but no slot changes. Then it'll look like... 2 lasers 1 neut mwd injector point whatever tank in lows It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps, and with a long range neut it could at least eventually cap out the kiter and then be able to go in for the tackle. The only issue is it would probably need the sentinel's range bonus as well as amount. That's 400% range and 100% amount. Idiots would likely cry foul because the number looks really big, but it's the bonus the sentinel has and it would only have one of them.

W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 386	Posted - 2015.10.24 03:18:38 - [251] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: Webs and point/scrams are listed under electronic warfare, nos/neuts are not. There is no "utility" module section that the latter set of mods fall under, thus I'm not sure where this classification comes from. Though admittedly that makes my prior statement off regarding cap warfare mods. If you look at the bonuses the different races get in their tech 1 lineup, and then look at what those modules do......and consider that neuts/webs/scrams are things that we fit on our ships regardless of bonuses.....damps/TDs/painters/ecm are a completely different animal. The navy crucifier getting a TD bonus is really odd. It should stay as is but with the TD bonuses removed. Give it a long range neut but no slot changes. Then it'll look like... 2 lasers 1 neut mwd injector point whatever tank in lows It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps, and with a long range neut it could at least eventually cap out the kiter and then be able to go in for the tackle. The only issue is it would probably need the sentinel's range bonus as well as amount. That's 400% range and 100% amount. Idiots would likely cry foul because the number looks really big, but it's the bonus the sentinel has and it would only have one of them. Why fly a sentinel then? Not like people use it to td.
Iyacia Cyric'ai Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 171	Posted - 2015.10.24 11:23:52 - [252] - Quote I would've preferred an Assault Frigate patch.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 229	Posted - 2015.10.24 11:44:39 - [253] - Quote Vaju Enki wrote: Great, more overpowered ships... powercreep is bad. Don't release this ships. I don't even know how I'd suggest they balance a ship with missiles and +50% web range bonus, or drones and +50% scram range bonus. it's insane, it's near pirate faction levels of godliness on navy hulls just make them go away. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1233	Posted - 2015.10.24 11:50:54 - [254] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Vaju Enki wrote: Great, more overpowered ships... powercreep is bad. Don't release this ships. I don't even know how I'd suggest they balance a ship with missiles and +50% web range bonus, or drones and +50% scram range bonus. it's insane, it's near pirate faction levels of godliness on navy hulls just make them go away. mm.. i really don't like that frigs can send their close range high dps drones upto 60km T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Iyacia Cyric'ai Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 172	Posted - 2015.10.24 15:44:01 - [255] - Quote Okay so here's my genuine feedback in the context of small gang/solo (since this is my area of experience and what CCP states are what these ships are designed to excel at). Crucifier Navy Issue: I assume the bonus will apply to the new missile disruption module, which means that if it lands a scram on you and your primary source of DPS isn't drones, it wins. 4 effective turrets, 2 drones and 4 mids make it a superb brawler. However it's rather slow so it's quite vulnerable to kiting. It's weapon disruption penalty makes disruption ineffective past 11-12km. Conclusion: Whatever this ship can kill, the Sentinal can as well and do so without committing to scram range. Also weak against drone boats. Has some use in situations where ships land at 0 near you and you can chose the fight by spamming the directional to see what will land :D Griffin Navy Issue: Here's how I can outline the flaw with this ship. Let's just forget the bonus for one second. This ship has more effective turrets (with the potential for an extra missile or nos/neut), more base HP, more base cap, more base CPU (identical base PWG) and more base speed than the Merlin. It doesn't have the Merlin's tank bonus but it has an extra mid. Granted it has one less low which will means it has to sacrifice a magstab (more than made up for by the fact that it had more effective turrets and a launcher slot) or forego the auxiliary power core necessary to fit a medium shield extender (can still fit a medium ancillary without auxiliary power core). Conclusion: tl/dr, it's a better Merlin with the option to fit a jammer. Bring a mobile depot and one of each racial jammer. A fun ship if you're into winning through dishonour. Rename to Merlin Lucky Rabbit Foot Issue ~~Tristan Overpowered Issue~~ Maulus Navy Issue What can I say, it's a Tristan with the ability to scram out to 16.2 with t2 scram or 20+ with faction scram and/or links. Not even my poor troll Venture is safe from this fit :( Extra low plus the additional CPU to fit an extra DDA or more speed as well. Oh and more base HP as well. Conclusion: Will be extremely strong, likely overpowered when combined with links. Unlike the Garmur which can on some occasions be outplayed and die if you catch them, this ship, like the Tristan, will beat a lot of t1 brawlers even if you do manage to catch them. I noticed that this ship has the current speed of the Tristan before the proposed 10m/s speed nerf. I propose applying the same nerf to this ship and/or lowering the base EHP so that it rewards players who do manage the difficult task of catching it. Vigil Fleet Issue 19.5km OH web. Obviously more with faction/links. Solid 4 mids, excellent base speed, 4.5 effective launchers with nova missiles, 4 effective launchers with every other damage type AND 3 drones. Extremely strong especially as webs affect oversized prop mods (Svipul/Confessor). This IMO is actually stronger than the Tristan Overpowered Issue. Nothing more to say. Conclusion: I like the idea of anything that causes Svipul pilots tears. This ship has enough DPS to down almost any other frigate in the 3 minutes it has to OH its web. Garmurs however have more base tank and DPS than it so against non-oversized AB ships or ships that have MJDs the Garmur is still superior. This is definitely a strong ship but I welcome the addition of any ship that can help gangs hunt Svipuls and Confessors (will still die to Beam Confessors and Artillery Svipuls though so be careful VFI pilots).
ColdBeauty oooh ponies 14	Posted - 2015.10.24 15:51:41 - [256] - Quote Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote: ~~Tristan Overpowered Issue~~ Maulus Navy Issue What can I say, it's a Tristan with the ability to scram out to 16.2 with t2 scram or 20+ with faction scram and/or links. Not even my poor troll Venture is safe from this fit :( Extra low plus the additional CPU to fit an extra DDA or more speed as well. Oh and more base HP as well. Conclusion: Will be extremely strong, likely overpowered when combined with links. Unlike the Garmur which can on some occasions be outplayed and die if you catch them, this ship, like the Tristan, will beat a lot of t1 brawlers even if you do manage to catch them. I noticed that this ship has the current speed of the Tristan before the proposed 10m/s speed nerf. I propose applying the same nerf to this ship and/or lowering the base EHP so that it rewards players who do manage the difficult task of catching it. It's just another waste of space that literally nobody will bother engaging solo unless in a similar wanky ship.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1233	Posted - 2015.10.24 16:06:12 - [257] - Quote would love too know why all 4 have so many drones, its not like they lack dps from launchers/turrets. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ray P State Protectorate Caldari State 5	Posted - 2015.10.24 17:23:09 - [258] - Quote Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote: Okay so here's my genuine feedback in the context of small gang/solo (since this is my area of experience and what CCP states are what these ships are designed to excel at). Crucifier Navy Issue: I assume the bonus will apply to the new missile disruption module, which means that if it lands a scram on you and your primary source of DPS isn't drones, it wins. 4 effective turrets, 2 drones and 4 mids make it a superb brawler. However it's rather slow so it's quite vulnerable to kiting. It's weapon disruption penalty makes disruption ineffective past 11-12km. Conclusion: Whatever this ship can kill, the Sentinal can as well and do so without committing to scram range. Also weak against drone boats. Has some use in situations where ships land at 0 near you and you can chose the fight by spamming the directional to see what will land :D Griffin Navy Issue: Here's how I can outline the flaw with this ship. Let's just forget the bonus for one second. This ship has more effective turrets (with the potential for an extra missile or nos/neut), more base HP, more base cap, more base CPU (identical base PWG) and more base speed than the Merlin. It doesn't have the Merlin's tank bonus but it has an extra mid. Granted it has one less low which will means it has to sacrifice a magstab (more than made up for by the fact that it had more effective turrets and a launcher slot) or forego the auxiliary power core necessary to fit a medium shield extender (can still fit a medium ancillary without auxiliary power core). Conclusion: tl/dr, it's a better Merlin with the option to fit a jammer. Bring a mobile depot and one of each racial jammer. A fun ship if you're into winning through dishonour. Rename to Merlin Lucky Rabbit Foot Issue ~~Tristan Overpowered Issue~~ Maulus Navy Issue What can I say, it's a Tristan with the ability to scram out to 16.2 with t2 scram or 20+ with faction scram and/or links. Not even my poor troll Venture is safe from this fit :( Extra low plus the additional CPU to fit an extra DDA or more speed as well. Oh and more base HP as well. Conclusion: Will be extremely strong, likely overpowered when combined with links. Unlike the Garmur which can on some occasions be outplayed and die if you catch them, this ship, like the Tristan, will beat a lot of t1 brawlers even if you do manage to catch them. I noticed that this ship has the current speed of the Tristan before the proposed 10m/s speed nerf. I propose applying the same nerf to this ship and/or lowering the base EHP so that it rewards players who do manage the difficult task of catching it. Vigil Fleet Issue 19.5km OH web. Obviously more with faction/links. Solid 4 mids, excellent base speed, 4.5 effective launchers with nova missiles, 4 effective launchers with every other damage type AND 3 drones. Extremely strong especially as webs affect oversized prop mods (Svipul/Confessor). Very strong ship. Nothing more to say. Conclusion: I like the idea of anything that causes Svipul pilots tears. This ship has enough DPS to down almost any other frigate in the 3 minutes it has to OH its web. Garmurs however have more base tank and DPS than it so against non-oversized AB ships or ships that have MJDs the Garmur is still superior. This is definitely a strong ship but I welcome the addition of any ship that can help gangs hunt Svipuls and Confessors (will still die to Beam Confessors and Artillery Svipuls though so be careful VFI pilots). conclusion: somebody's been busy farming minmattar lp
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 305	Posted - 2015.10.24 19:40:44 - [259] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: Why fly a sentinel then? Not like people use it to td. Because weapon distruptors aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Templar Dane wrote: It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps Templar Dane wrote: It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps Templar Dane wrote: It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps
W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 388	Posted - 2015.10.24 20:45:07 - [260] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: W0lf Crendraven wrote: Why fly a sentinel then? Not like people use it to td. Because weapon distruptors aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Templar Dane wrote: It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps Templar Dane wrote: It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps Templar Dane wrote: It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps cause you fly a sentinel for its lousy 4 drones?

Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1667	Posted - 2015.10.24 21:20:27 - [261] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: Webs and point/scrams are listed under electronic warfare, nos/neuts are not. There is no "utility" module section that the latter set of mods fall under, thus I'm not sure where this classification comes from. Though admittedly that makes my prior statement off regarding cap warfare mods. If you look at the bonuses the different races get in their tech 1 lineup, and then look at what those modules do......and consider that neuts/webs/scrams are things that we fit on our ships regardless of bonuses.....damps/TDs/painters/ecm are a completely different animal. The navy crucifier getting a TD bonus is really odd. It should stay as is but with the TD bonuses removed. Give it a long range neut but no slot changes. Then it'll look like... 2 lasers 1 neut mwd injector point whatever tank in lows It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps, and with a long range neut it could at least eventually cap out the kiter and then be able to go in for the tackle. The only issue is it would probably need the sentinel's range bonus as well as amount. That's 400% range and 100% amount. Idiots would likely cry foul because the number looks really big, but it's the bonus the sentinel has and it would only have one of them. How often you use them doesn't change their classification. Rather it just means that warp disruption is a much higher priority form of ewar that TDs or ECM. The reason for that being obvious. Fact is TDs (kinda), ECM, webs, points, damps and scrams all interfere with a ships normal functions justifying their classification as EWAR, but as one would imagine some forms are more desired than others depending on their specific effect. Also I fit painters to non-bonused hulls quite frequently in PvE due to scrams and points being of no use there. Also your proposition makes the Crusifier weaker IMHO when it doesn't need to be. A TD bonus gives it survivability in an aggressive role, which seems to be where these ships were aimed. They chose the ewar aspect that didn't interfere with damage capacity for a reason I believe.
Esqire Evingod Spectraliz IIZ 1	Posted - 2015.10.25 01:15:18 - [262] - Quote IMO Griffin Navy Issue should have shorter ECM cycle time about 1/3 - 1/2 from original (not affecting the cap usage).
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 305	Posted - 2015.10.25 03:37:23 - [263] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: How often you use them doesn't change their classification. Rather it just means that warp disruption is a much higher priority form of ewar that TDs or ECM. The reason for that being obvious. Fact is TDs (kinda), ECM, webs, points, damps and scrams all interfere with a ships normal functions justifying their classification as EWAR, but as one would imagine some forms are more desired than others depending on their specific effect. Also I fit painters to non-bonused hulls quite frequently in PvE due to scrams and points being of no use there. Also your proposition makes the Crusifier weaker IMHO when it doesn't need to be. A TD bonus gives it survivability in an aggressive role, which seems to be where these ships were aimed. They chose the ewar aspect that didn't interfere with damage capacity for a reason I believe. It would be a sentinel with more dps but less neuting power, sans tracking disruptor. The lasers aren't going to work very well for kiting since it's forced into scram range because of it's ewar bonus......at least the neut would give it an avenue of attack to get into scram range. It makes zero sense that it's forced into scram range while the two good navy ewar ships get to kite and do it extremely well. The vigil and maulus are going to be powerhouses, flown solo and in gangs. How on earth can it go toe to toe with the maulus/vigil? The ewar doesn't work on drones, and missiles are still going to hit even if they do reduced damage. Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is..... Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead? If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there. What good is a range script if you're already that close? Oh hey, we have ewar for turrets and ewar for missiles. Sure hope you fit the right one. Those LMLs and rockets are still going to hit you even if you brought the right one. A long range neut on the other hand........ Shut off their prop mods, their ewar, their tackle, their guns if they're using lasers/hybrids, shuts down local capacitor-dependant active tanks, shuts down a logi frigate. You now have complete range dictation barring them using an injector. I mean really, why on earth would anyone fly a navy crucifier when they could fly a navy maulus and fit a TD to it? The effect of the TD would be 37.5% less but you'd more than make up for that with the vastly increased range and the 50% scram range bonus. 10.8km optimal on crucifier TD, 72km optimal TD on the maulus 59% optimal or tracking penalty to affected ship on crucifier, compared to 42.9% on maulus
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 230	Posted - 2015.10.25 04:56:29 - [264] - Quote Esqire Evingod wrote: IMO Griffin Navy Issue should have shorter ECM cycle time about 1/3 - 1/2 from original (not affecting the cap usage). Edit: To peaple who say Vigil and Maulus have T2 EWAR bonuses. Think how useful painter would be in close range frigate combat. Dampers could be usefull but circumstances so rare that it just should not be, +1 scram strenght really is kind of random. to keep the flavour going minmattar should be given target painters with -85% range, and Gallente should have sensor damps with -85% range. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1670	Posted - 2015.10.25 09:00:19 - [265] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: It would be a sentinel with more dps but less neuting power, sans tracking disruptor. The lasers aren't going to work very well for kiting since it's forced into scram range because of it's ewar bonus......at least the neut would give it an avenue of attack to get into scram range. It makes zero sense that it's forced into scram range while the two good navy ewar ships get to kite and do it extremely well. The vigil and maulus are going to be powerhouses, flown solo and in gangs. How on earth can it go toe to toe with the maulus/vigil? The ewar doesn't work on drones, and missiles are still going to hit even if they do reduced damage. Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is..... Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead? If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there. What good is a range script if you're already that close? Oh hey, we have ewar for turrets and ewar for missiles. Sure hope you fit the right one. Those LMLs and rockets are still going to hit you even if you brought the right one. A long range neut on the other hand........ Shut off their prop mods, their ewar, their tackle, their guns if they're using lasers/hybrids, shuts down local capacitor-dependant active tanks, shuts down a logi frigate. You now have complete range dictation barring them using an injector. I mean really, why on earth would anyone fly a navy crucifier when they could fly a navy maulus and fit a TD to it? The effect of the TD would be 37.5% less but you'd more than make up for that with the vastly increased range and the 50% scram range bonus. 10.8km optimal on crucifier TD, 72km optimal TD on the maulus 59% optimal or tracking penalty to affected ship on crucifier, compared to 42.9% on maulus Unless the idea is to make the sentinel the longest range of the group it's still going to have issues with being kited. Especially by the vigil. Also these aren't supposed to ewar kite past mid range. The vigil with faction webs is the only one that works past 16km. Also, why use a range script at close range when a tracking script would mitigate more damage at that point against anything with decent range (and would still likely do a number on most frigate sized ships even range scripted)? As for the malus using a TD, would it really forego a web for it? Yeah, it could use a TD, or even ECM, but at the expense of web or prop, I'm not seeing that a choice being made. That's somewhat moot though as the malus is too strong. That the crucifier doesn't stand up to it in a 1v1 means it's closer to being balanced. As proposed the vigil and malus just seem too strong. Also rockets from a vigil won't be hitting if you brought the right mod and scripts unless it's not actually kiting. LML's probably won't either unless wasting the bonus range of the webs.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 230	Posted - 2015.10.25 09:48:59 - [266] - Quote Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote: Okay so here's my genuine feedback in the context of small gang/solo (since this is my area of experience and what CCP states are what these ships are designed to excel at). Crucifier Navy Issue: I assume the bonus will apply to the new missile disruption module, which means that if it lands a scram on you and your primary source of DPS isn't drones, it wins. 4 effective turrets, 2 drones and 4 mids make it a superb brawler. However it's rather slow so it's quite vulnerable to kiting. It's weapon disruption penalty makes disruption ineffective past 11-12km. Conclusion: Whatever this ship can kill, the Sentinal can as well and do so without committing to scram range. Also weak against drone boats. Has some use in situations where ships land at 0 near you and you can chose the fight by spamming the directional to see what will land :D Griffin Navy Issue: Here's how I can outline the flaw with this ship. Let's just forget the bonus for one second. This ship has more effective turrets (with the potential for an extra missile or nos/neut), more base HP, more base cap, more base CPU (identical base PWG) and more base speed than the Merlin. It doesn't have the Merlin's tank bonus but it has an extra mid. Granted it has one less low which will means it has to sacrifice a magstab (more than made up for by the fact that it had more effective turrets and a launcher slot) or forego the auxiliary power core necessary to fit a medium shield extender (can still fit a medium ancillary without auxiliary power core). Conclusion: tl/dr, it's a better Merlin with the option to fit a jammer. Bring a mobile depot and one of each racial jammer. A fun ship if you're into winning through dishonour. Rename to Merlin Lucky Rabbit Foot Issue ~~Tristan Overpowered Issue~~ Maulus Navy Issue What can I say, it's a Tristan with the ability to scram out to 16.2 with t2 scram or 20+ with faction scram and/or links. Not even my poor troll Venture is safe from this fit :( Extra low plus the additional CPU to fit an extra DDA or more speed as well. Oh and more base HP as well. Conclusion: Will be extremely strong, likely overpowered when combined with links. Unlike the Garmur which can on some occasions be outplayed and die if you catch them, this ship, like the Tristan, will beat a lot of t1 brawlers even if you do manage to catch them. I noticed that this ship has the current speed of the Tristan before the proposed 10m/s speed nerf. I propose applying the same nerf to this ship and/or lowering the base EHP so that it rewards players who do manage the difficult task of catching it. Vigil Fleet Issue 19.5km OH web. Obviously more with faction/links. Solid 4 mids, excellent base speed, 4.5 effective launchers with nova missiles, 4 effective launchers with every other damage type AND 3 drones. Extremely strong especially as webs affect oversized prop mods (Svipul/Confessor). Very strong ship. Nothing more to say. Conclusion: I like the idea of anything that causes Svipul pilots tears. This ship has enough DPS to down almost any other frigate in the 3 minutes it has to OH its web. Garmurs however have more base tank and DPS than it so against non-oversized AB ships or ships that have MJDs the Garmur is still superior. This is definitely a strong ship but I welcome the addition of any ship that can help gangs hunt Svipuls and Confessors (will still die to Beam Confessors and Artillery Svipuls though so be careful VFI pilots). The Vigil fleet issue is even more OP than the Fleet Maulus, they both have huge engagement profiles, literally they can fight almost anything including most pirate faction frigs because they are very fast hulls, long range weapons and bonus to web/scram range makes it near impossible to pin them down. How have they not learned a lesson form the Mordu's legion ships? And why are you trying to justify the clearly OP state of the vigil by saying it's not quite as good as a Garmur but it will make Svipuls cry, ffs does that not tell you something? Especially since you seem to have a problem with the Navy Griffin because it's got some slightly better base stats than a t1 frig genuine feedback im sure. fyi the Fleet vigil has 160dps Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Iyacia Cyric'ai Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 177	Posted - 2015.10.25 13:14:43 - [267] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote: Okay so here's my genuine feedback in the context of small gang/solo (since this is my area of experience and what CCP states are what these ships are designed to excel at). Crucifier Navy Issue: I assume the bonus will apply to the new missile disruption module, which means that if it lands a scram on you and your primary source of DPS isn't drones, it wins. 4 effective turrets, 2 drones and 4 mids make it a superb brawler. However it's rather slow so it's quite vulnerable to kiting. It's weapon disruption penalty makes disruption ineffective past 11-12km. Conclusion: Whatever this ship can kill, the Sentinal can as well and do so without committing to scram range. Also weak against drone boats. Has some use in situations where ships land at 0 near you and you can chose the fight by spamming the directional to see what will land :D Griffin Navy Issue: Here's how I can outline the flaw with this ship. Let's just forget the bonus for one second. This ship has more effective turrets (with the potential for an extra missile or nos/neut), more base HP, more base cap, more base CPU (identical base PWG) and more base speed than the Merlin. It doesn't have the Merlin's tank bonus but it has an extra mid. Granted it has one less low which will means it has to sacrifice a magstab (more than made up for by the fact that it had more effective turrets and a launcher slot) or forego the auxiliary power core necessary to fit a medium shield extender (can still fit a medium ancillary without auxiliary power core). Conclusion: tl/dr, it's a better Merlin with the option to fit a jammer. Bring a mobile depot and one of each racial jammer. A fun ship if you're into winning through dishonour. Rename to Merlin Lucky Rabbit Foot Issue ~~Tristan Overpowered Issue~~ Maulus Navy Issue What can I say, it's a Tristan with the ability to scram out to 16.2 with t2 scram or 20+ with faction scram and/or links. Not even my poor troll Venture is safe from this fit :( Extra low plus the additional CPU to fit an extra DDA or more speed as well. Oh and more base HP as well. Conclusion: Will be extremely strong, likely overpowered when combined with links. Unlike the Garmur which can on some occasions be outplayed and die if you catch them, this ship, like the Tristan, will beat a lot of t1 brawlers even if you do manage to catch them. I noticed that this ship has the current speed of the Tristan before the proposed 10m/s speed nerf. I propose applying the same nerf to this ship and/or lowering the base EHP so that it rewards players who do manage the difficult task of catching it. Vigil Fleet Issue 19.5km OH web. Obviously more with faction/links. Solid 4 mids, excellent base speed, 4.5 effective launchers with nova missiles, 4 effective launchers with every other damage type AND 3 drones. Extremely strong especially as webs affect oversized prop mods (Svipul/Confessor). Very strong ship. Nothing more to say. Conclusion: I like the idea of anything that causes Svipul pilots tears. This ship has enough DPS to down almost any other frigate in the 3 minutes it has to OH its web. Garmurs however have more base tank and DPS than it so against non-oversized AB ships or ships that have MJDs the Garmur is still superior. This is definitely a strong ship but I welcome the addition of any ship that can help gangs hunt Svipuls and Confessors (will still die to Beam Confessors and Artillery Svipuls though so be careful VFI pilots). The Vigil fleet issue is even more OP than the Fleet Maulus, they both have huge engagement profiles, literally they can fight almost anything including most pirate faction frigs because they are very fast hulls, long range weapons and bonus to web/scram range makes it near impossible to pin them down. What annoys me most is they are still better than the Navy Griffin and the Navy Crucifier even without the -85% range penalty... so what's going on here? How have they not learned a lesson form the Mordu's legion ships? And why are you trying to justify the clearly OP state of the vigil by saying it's not quite as good as a Garmur but it will make Svipuls cry, ffs does that not tell you something? Especially since you seem to have a problem with the Navy Griffin because it's got some slightly better base stats than a t1 frig genuine feedback im sure. fyi the Fleet vigil has 160dps Not sure if it's more OP. It has less tank meaning if you catch it you can probably kill it. But it's definitely going to be the harder one to catch and escape from. And yes I retract my statement about it doing less DPS than the Garmur, I was just looking at the missiles. With drones it beats the Garmur in DPS which is rather redonk.
Ray P State Protectorate Caldari State 6	Posted - 2015.10.25 13:53:15 - [268] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is..... Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead? If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there. What good is a range script if you're already that close? lmao it's funny that tracking disruptors are more useful on the Navy Maulus, or the Fleet Vigil than they are on the Navy Crucifier. just came back to the came a few weeks ago and already feel like leaving again, enough fighting in eve without having to battle with devs for a fair balanced game. All these ships should have full use of their ewar but they should all be almost as slow as t1 destroyers to make up for it. NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MORE KITERS and especially not untouchable kiters with defensive scrams and webs. fozzie: next time you step on a lego, or pour sour milk on your cornflakes you should know it's the just the universe paying you back for your crimes against ship balance.
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 308	Posted - 2015.10.25 20:36:54 - [269] - Quote Ray P wrote: Templar Dane wrote: Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is..... Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead? If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there. What good is a range script if you're already that close? lmao it's funny that tracking disruptors are more useful on the Navy Maulus, or the Fleet Vigil than they are on the Navy Crucifier. just came back to the game a few weeks ago and already feel like leaving again, enough fighting in eve without having to battle with devs for a fair balanced game. All these ships should have full use of their ewar but they should all be almost as slow as t1 destroyers to make up for it. NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MORE KITERS and especially not untouchable kiters with defensive scrams and webs. fozzie: next time you step on a lego, or pour sour milk on your cornflakes you should know it's just the universe paying you back for your crimes against ship balance. If they wanted to balance them, and keep the griffin/crucifier as the baseline...... navy maulus - penalty to drone control range, -85%. Now it has to brawl too navy vigil - penalty to LM range. now a brawler
Ares Desideratus Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan 287	Posted - 2015.10.25 20:43:52 - [270] - Quote I think Vigil and Maulus are actually SICK as fuk, it's Crucifier and Griffin that are mediocre, gimped and weirdly thought out. Gotta agree with mr Dane on the crucifier, it should be bonused to neuts.

W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 388	Posted - 2015.10.25 21:48:44 - [271] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Ray P wrote: Templar Dane wrote: Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is..... Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead? If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there. What good is a range script if you're already that close? lmao it's funny that tracking disruptors are more useful on the Navy Maulus, or the Fleet Vigil than they are on the Navy Crucifier. just came back to the game a few weeks ago and already feel like leaving again, enough fighting in eve without having to battle with devs for a fair balanced game. All these ships should have full use of their ewar but they should all be almost as slow as t1 destroyers to make up for it. NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MORE KITERS and especially not untouchable kiters with defensive scrams and webs. fozzie: next time you step on a lego, or pour sour milk on your cornflakes you should know it's just the universe paying you back for your crimes against ship balance. If they wanted to balance them, and keep the griffin/crucifier as the baseline...... navy maulus - penalty to drone control range, -85%. Now it has to brawl too navy vigil - penalty to LM range. now a brawler The maulus idea is actually really good, ccp make it so !!! Im fine with the vigil, lml kiting is in a terrible spot atm.
Harreeb Alls Ministry of War Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2015.10.26 03:03:56 - [272] - Quote Why not give the griffin and crucifier resist bonus's instead of dmg, make them ewar tacklers. It would also be interesting to give them a role bonus to racial ewar drones, which never get used. Then at least the crucifier could use neut or td drones, vigil could of use tp or web drones, maulus and griffin only get damp/ecm respectively. They'd have at least some utility at range and a way to get in close and use their midslot ewar. Otherwise they'll just get erased by all the strong cruiser and destroyer that's been introduced the last 2 years.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 230	Posted - 2015.10.26 07:46:31 - [273] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: Templar Dane wrote: Ray P wrote: Templar Dane wrote: Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is..... Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead? If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there. What good is a range script if you're already that close? lmao it's funny that tracking disruptors are more useful on the Navy Maulus, or the Fleet Vigil than they are on the Navy Crucifier. just came back to the game a few weeks ago and already feel like leaving again, enough fighting in eve without having to battle with devs for a fair balanced game. All these ships should have full use of their ewar but they should all be almost as slow as t1 destroyers to make up for it. NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MORE KITERS and especially not untouchable kiters with defensive scrams and webs. fozzie: next time you step on a lego, or pour sour milk on your cornflakes you should know it's just the universe paying you back for your crimes against ship balance. If they wanted to balance them, and keep the griffin/crucifier as the baseline...... navy maulus - penalty to drone control range, -85%. Now it has to brawl too navy vigil - penalty to LM range. now a brawler The maulus idea is actually really good, ccp make it so !!! Im fine with the vigil, lml kiting is in a terrible spot atm. I could live with the fleet vigil but only because minmattar have a mediocre LP store. The Fleet Firetail is meh, the fleet stabber is meh, and the scythe fleet issue is not great, just good. Whereas Gallente have already got the Navy Comet and the godly Navy Vexor. but make no mistake, they are both disgustingly OP for navy frigates and a few months down the line everyone will be sick of them polluting low sec with their uncatchable kite faggotry. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 230	Posted - 2015.10.26 09:56:27 - [274] - Quote 1. Fleet Vigil - Minmattar 2. Navy Maulus - Gallente 3. Comet - Gallente 4. Slicer - Amarr ^^^ these ships will get a lot of use, the vigil will probably be one of if not the most common ship in low sec pvp 5. Navy Griffin - Caldari 6. Republic Fleet Firetail - Minmattar 7. Hookbill - Caldari 8. Navy Crucifier - Amarr ^^^ These ships will see far less usage, and by that I mean less than half of the others. The Firetail and Hookbill will be used even less now than they were before despite the buffs because of far better alternatives. The Slicer which is widely used now will probably be largely replaced by the Vigil as a strong but affordable kiter. The Navy Comet dominates all of them in scram range, the Fleet Vigil dominates all of them at kiting, and the Navy Maulus will be great both at kiting, and countering other kiters but it's drones can be killed which means it will have a hard time kiting very tanky brawlers. Navy ships are woefully imbalanced, by far the worst in all categories and it's affecting the warzone which is what most of the people in this thread don't seem to understand. When one side is earning less than a third of the other side because of shady balancing decisions over time this will be reflected in the warzone, as it is now with Gallente able to stockpile ships in key systems and ship up at a moments notice while calmil are largely incapable of fielding anything bigger than t1 cruisers because they can't afford to lose them. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Croc Evil Croc's Family Business Schizophrenic Macro Hive 3	Posted - 2015.10.26 13:46:44 - [275] - Quote So as far as my PvP goes for small frigate solo, here are my 2 cents :) For me the most important part is to have as much of playstyles as possible in eve. Maulus Navy Issue and Vigil Fleet Issue really brings something new IMO and I like their concept. They might look too strong at first glimpse but It can be tweaked properly over time. Maulus Navy Issue can give you good platform to deal with all those pesky FW farmers as well as give pirates some platform to deal with stabilized industrialists lurking around :) With Vigil Fleet Issue they brings interesting range control + DPS, messing with core eve brawl, scram kiting, point kitting frigate PvP stereotype. I think stereotypes in any game are bad. On the other hand Crucifier Navy Issue and Griffin Navy Issue looks a bit odd to me. My first impression is they are: BURN - ORBIT/KEEP - PRAY Not much of player skill involved apart from proper 'target' selection. That I don't like much. For Griffin Navy Issue play style can be very similar to ECM Kestrel fits I use (lot of fun from opponent ranting ). For these 2 ships I would reconsider their concept. For example Griffin Navy Issue could be centered around ECM bursts instead with role/misc bonuses to fitting and penalties to strength. That would be something really new .
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.10.27 21:39:50 - [276] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hello one and all! We are planning a big set of ship and module updates for this Winter, including 13 new ships, module tiericide and much more. This thread will introduce 4 of the new ships, a new line of Empire Navy Ewar Frigates. These ships are designed to use their racial ewar bonuses (primary ewar for Amarr and Caldari, secondary for Gallente and Minmatar) in unusual ways, skewed towards solo and microgang combat. Overall we don't expect these ships to eclipse Electronic Attack Frigates for fleet support roles, but the combination of ewar with significant frigate damage puts them into their own category. These ships will be available in all standard combat LP stores for their respective factions. Crucifier Navy Issue Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Weapon Disruptor effectiveness Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to Weapon Disruptor optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to Weapon Disruptor activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 2 Turret 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 42 PWG, 180 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 375 / 600 / 525 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 500 / 250s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 340 / 3.35 / 1,064,000 / 5 / 4.94s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 20 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64km / 640 / 5 Sensor strength: 14 Radar Signature radius: 38 Griffin Navy Issue Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 20% bonus to ECM strength Misc Bonus: -85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff -50% reduction to ECM Jammer activation cost Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5 Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 Maulus Navy Issue Gallente Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Drone tracking and hitpoints 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Misc Bonus: +1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Slot layout: 2 H, 3 M, 4 L, 2 Turret 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 35 PWG, 150 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 450 / 525 / 600 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 330 / 165s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.35 / 1,063,000 / 5 / 4.94s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km / 620 / 5 Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric Signature radius: 42 Vigil Fleet Issue Minmatar Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion velocity 25% bonus to explosive missile damage, 20% bonus to em, thermal and kinetic missile damage Misc Bonus: +50% Stasis Webifier range Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 1 Turret, 2 Launchers 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 38 PWG, 190 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 525 / 525 / 425 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 300 / 150s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.2 / 1,080,000 / 5 / 4.79s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 660 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar Signature radius: 34 Let us know what you think! @ 85% reduction (all level 5): CNG is looking at 5.41275 optimal with 6.0075 fallof Crucifier is 9 / 4.5. Due to small ranges (not optimal bonused hulls) beeing between 800m-8km, the crucifier has a chance to close before vaporization. Griffin, not so much. I get setting brawling ranges, but the ECM falls short against any hull that isn't even bonus for range (kestrel eat this ship! nomnomnom). And even with its attributes, it's just short. A Maulus can shut any of these ships down. Wtih the ranges, if they can't do anything to a sniper frig, they just are goignt o get blown up alot. But I like the Maulus and the Vigil navy issues :)
Shelom Severasse The Blueprint Co. 51	Posted - 2015.10.28 02:36:07 - [277] - Quote bruh. navy griffins will be the bane of everyone's existence.
Idame Isqua Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF 4	Posted - 2015.10.29 05:50:35 - [278] - Quote Don't forget comets also have the best DPS long range 150mm rails and 3 drones In fact I have died a lot to the new win button of AB fit 150mm rail comets The other ships arnt fast enough to 'get under its guns' without being totally gimped And you cant get under drones Not forgetting you have enough room to always have the best drone for the situation (speed or dps, and which resistance hole) As long as I have played eve the comet has clearly been the best frigate And none can argue with this Just look at the killboard, market etc. etc. you can fit it with a armor or shield passive or active tank with blasters or rails ab or mwd and its pretty easy to win in and you can take on anything in any situation confidently In fact most people flying it are happy to fit a deadspace prop knowing this will make them faster than anything regardless compared with... well I guess new navy maulus might beat it Hookbill cant fit light missiles Firetail could be arty fit I guess (but would die in a brawl and/or be laughed at) I guess maybe the slicer has decent DPS at range compared with the firetail and hookbill, but are paper thin and clearly don't work that well otherwise people would be flying them all the time, instead of avoiding comets in novices like they avoid t3ds in smalls...
Adrian Maifeld Low-Sec Survival Ltd. Boys without pants 19	Posted - 2015.10.29 10:59:41 - [279] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: "I think I will take twelve Maulus Navy Issues, please." Death to all Relic Ninja's! Some exciting and interesting looking fits. Looks to be a good way to shake up the FW meta. Not that I am into that, but new ships which are accessible to younger players and offer an interesting approach seem like a good thing. hehe Come and get me!
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 17	Posted - 2015.10.29 20:13:09 - [280] - Quote Shelom Severasse wrote: bruh. navy griffins will be the bane of everyone's existence. Not tanky enough. And they have to get close. Frig small gang vs frig small gang, I'd kill the griffin, Crucifier, Vigil, than Maulus. Navy Griffin "looks" a bane if you don't see it coming and you let it close. Either-wise, its a brawler with no tank and an EM hole that needs plugging or alpha death.

Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2702	Posted - 2015.10.30 03:03:58 - [281] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: -85% ecm range... ecm with a range of 4km, would you really waste a mid on that? Ray P wrote: woopie double strength ecm with 4km range then. so useful im sure Easily 10km with decent skills and no extra bonuses. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Syri Taneka Un4seen Development Sev3rance 121	Posted - 2015.10.30 07:42:46 - [282] - Quote Travis Uchonela wrote: I don't know. I mean some of this is going to be fun, but that Maulus looks too powerful. Also not sure I love these bonuses on t1 hulls, the Navy Vigil seems like it will step on the Hyena's toes big time. Not really. +1 scram strength is helpful, but most things that can evade a point can't evade a standard double-point scram - and it's still fairly short ranged by default (unless you're being silly and fitting faction/deadspace on a FRIGATE). (Okay I do this some but not with mods that juicy.) As to the Navy Vigil... not really. I mean, yeah, it's an obvious choice for combat because it gets actual COMBAT bonuses - but none of the EAS' get (meaningful) combat bonuses, and of the lot, the Sentinel is already the king. +50% web range is not a whole lot. Remember, the Hyena gets +200%. It's a kiter. This Navy Vigil has to stay in close to be effective - at which point it's just as much in danger as its opponent is.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 240	Posted - 2015.10.30 08:07:36 - [283] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: -85% ecm range... ecm with a range of 4km, would you really waste a mid on that? Ray P wrote: woopie double strength ecm with 4km range then. so useful im sure Easily 10km with decent skills and no extra bonuses. You can't rainbow fit it, you will have at most 1 slot to use so it seems most realistic scenario is multi spec ecm which will have an optimal of 2.88km for people who haven't trained ecm skills (probably the majority of the playerbase), and 4.33km with perfect ecm skills. even racial jams will have an optimal of just 4.34km unskilled upto 6.5km for max skills so your 10km number is obviously falloff, which is half strength, and that's basically what you get on an unbonused hull except you have a range of upto 52km ... so the question is do you roll with ecm in your mids on many solo pvp fits? I've never seen them used, i've seen sensor damps, target painters, and tracking disruptors on solo fits but i've never seen anyone use ecm. So do you think people are really going to use mids for a gimped ecm module with no range? Do you really think any brawler wants to trust his survival on a coin toss? If it had full range I would use it because then it could be good for pushing off kiters, or getting past the defensive scram/web of the other two, I really don't see why it's a problem compared to what the vigil and maulus can do, if it's okay for them to be clearly OP then it should be good enough for the amarr and caldari as well. Did you skip the rest of my posts? Do you understand the effect this will have on the already horribly skewed faction war LP store? It's like the devs are using their god powers to shower their pets with isk. They might aswell magic up a couple trillion isk and split it between everyone in gallente and minmattar faction war every year becuase that's effectively what they're doing with these ships anyway and I'm a bit sick of it now. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 240	Posted - 2015.10.30 08:19:20 - [284] - Quote The Fleet vigil *** all over the Hookbill and the Fed Navy Comet *** all over the Navy Griffin. So wtf is going on here? Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Feodor Romanov Blitzkrieg Federation NEOS FLEET 23	Posted - 2015.10.30 23:49:27 - [285] - Quote Some Thoughts about how to make frigates more balanced Vigil: How about to restrict Vigil's weapon bonus to rockets like Melidiction have or change EWAR bonus to Target painter. Maulus: One low slot can be moved to utility high and drone bay nerfed to 40 m3 like tristan have. Crucifier and griffin: no restriction on EWAR optimal range or less penalty like 50% (not 85%)
Cearain Goose Swarm Coalition 1425	Posted - 2015.10.31 22:59:05 - [286] - Quote I wonder if the vigil and the maulus will not help increase the amount of instalocking gate camps. Cheap long webs and cheap 3 point scrams. Gate camps are pretty low risk as it is so I think these very cheap ships will reduce the risk even further. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Morgan Agrivar Happy Endings Massage Parlor 146	Posted - 2015.11.02 09:31:01 - [287] - Quote When I joined Gallente FW, I was placed into a Maulus and basically survived pissing off logi and Tornado snipers in our small gang. So when I saw the Maulus Navy Issue, I had to... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY Yeah, I want. Just something about me...
Catherine Laartii Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 618	Posted - 2015.11.02 22:05:20 - [288] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: -85% ecm range... ecm with a range of 4km, would you really waste a mid on that? Ray P wrote: woopie double strength ecm with 4km range then. so useful im sure Easily 10km with decent skills and no extra bonuses. You can't rainbow fit it, you will have at most 1 slot to use so it seems most realistic scenario is multi spec ecm which will have an optimal of 2.88km for people who haven't trained ecm skills (probably the majority of the playerbase), and 4.33km with perfect ecm skills. even racial jams will have an optimal of just 4.34km unskilled upto 6.5km for max skills so your 10km number is obviously falloff, which is half strength, and that's basically what you get on an unbonused hull except you have a range of upto 52km ... so the question is do you roll with ecm in your mids on many solo pvp fits? I've never seen them used, i've seen sensor damps, target painters, and tracking disruptors on solo fits but i've never seen anyone use ecm. So do you think people are really going to use mids for a gimped ecm module with no range? Do you really think any brawler wants to trust his survival on a coin toss? If it had full range I would use it because then it could be good for pushing off kiters, or getting past the defensive scram/web of the other two, I really don't see why it's a problem compared to what the vigil and maulus can do, if it's okay for them to be clearly OP then it should be good enough for the amarr and caldari as well. Did you skip the rest of my posts? Do you understand the effect this will have on the already horribly skewed faction war LP store? It's like the devs are using their god powers to shower their pets with isk. They might aswell magic up a couple trillion isk and split it between everyone in gallente and minmattar faction war every year becuase that's effectively what they're doing with these ships anyway and I'm a bit sick of it now. TBH i think it's just badly worded, and it's a poorly worded range bonus, ortherwise it would be a positive modifier instead of a negative. But hey, that's just me being optimistic and not getting ANY clarification from the devs...
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 509	Posted - 2015.11.02 23:33:27 - [289] - Quote fozzie you still havent come up with a 2nd iteration of these frigates? its pretty clear nobody likes the crucifier, and nobody seems to like the range differences. 2 long range 2 short range. 2 using the proper ewar of the their race, 2 using generic secondary ewar of every race. WHY? Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Capqu Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 1177	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:37:32 - [290] - Quote what does rise think of the griffin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1160	Posted - 2015.11.03 11:07:16 - [291] - Quote Flyinghotpocket wrote: fozzie you still havent come up with a 2nd iteration of these frigates? its pretty clear nobody likes the crucifier, and nobody seems to like the range differences. 2 long range 2 short range. 2 using the proper ewar of the their race, 2 using generic secondary ewar of every race. WHY? but the crucifier is the only acceptable one
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3441	Posted - 2015.11.05 05:50:18 - [292] - Quote Bienator II wrote: griffin with damage bonus WTF longer version: there should not be more EWAR ships added until ECM is fixed. It is binary, not stacking penalized and one dimensional. All other EWAR types are mitigateable through player piloting skill and/or tactics were ECM is purely random. ECCM mods are only useful if the base sensor strength of your ship is already high and only very few ships have the luxury to be able to waste a med slot for it. ECCM has no secondary function (beside for OGB alts but lets don't talk about OGBs) and dedicated EWAR ships will still manage to jam you even with overheated ECCM running. ECM is not fun, not interactive and far too strong in small scale warfare. Only because it does not scale to large scale warfare does not make it an acceptable game mechanic. CCP promised years ago to take another look at ECM if they find time for it, but it never happened. The new doomsdays are explicitly designed to be fun for the player who fires them and for the target (watch the capital session from eve vegas and you will understand) - we need the same for ECM. how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Alexis Nightwish 341	Posted - 2015.11.05 21:16:41 - [293] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: (snip) Maulus Navy Issue Gallente Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Drone tracking and hitpoints 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Misc Bonus: +1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Slot layout: 2 H, 3 M, 4 L, 2 Turret 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 35 PWG, 150 CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 450 / 525 / 600 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 330 / 165s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.35 / 1,063,000 / 5 / 4.94s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km / 620 / 5 Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric Signature radius: 42 (snip) Let us know what you think! I think you guys need to get over your love affair with drone ships. I don't know why you think that 5 light drones (and two neuts) is somehow equal to the 3 effective small turrets (that most of the other NIEWARs have). Some numbers: 3 Small Neutron Blasters IIs (highest DPS small turrets): 125 dps with Void at point blank range 5 Hobgoblin IIs (highest DPS light drones): 99 dps at 60km range (though realistically at 13.5km due to Maulus NI scram range) 3 Small Focused Pulse Laser IIs (similar dps to the drones above): 104 wtih Conflag at about 6km 3 Small Focused Beam Laser IIs (similar dps to the drones above): 100 wtih Gleam at about 6km You're going to have the same problem with the Maulus NI in the NIEWAR area as you do with the Tristan in the T1 frig area, especially since it can kite with a scram (no MWD for you!) and neut (with the new Corpii A-Type Small Energy Neutralizers) outside the effective range of just about anything it chooses to fight. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Thanatos Marathon Black Fox Marauders 563	Posted - 2015.11.06 16:51:21 - [294] - Quote Are we going to see an update to the stats before release? the MNI and the VFI look OP as navy frigs.
Arline Kley PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 629	Posted - 2015.11.12 16:51:58 - [295] - Quote Requesting an update about the Navy Crucifier as well. Also, I hope that these ships are released soonish. I hate seeings ships dumped 2 days before patch day onto the test server for us to get used to, as that leaves little in the way of time to actually test the things out. "For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Harreeb Alls Ministry of War Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2015.11.12 19:08:06 - [296] - Quote I suggested giving the griffin and crucifier resist bonus's instead of damage, basically making them ewar tackle. A role they would excel at in small gangs grabbing single or duo targets. Another thought occurred to me, how about giving them the t2 ewar role bonus making them invisible on dscan.
BABARR PARABELUM-Project Vendetta Mercenary Group 23	Posted - 2015.11.13 00:14:26 - [297] - Quote Oh yes, more frig. And when CCP going to work on tier 3 navy battleship? Ah no, CCP don't like battleship.
Jhaelee de'Auvrie Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 22	Posted - 2015.11.15 07:59:56 - [298] - Quote Wow, do these new ships look completely out of balance with each other. The new Navy Maulus is going to be a better Tristan (5 drones plus 14km scram before links) and the Vigil will be an amazing kiter as well with that web bonus. The Navy Griffin and Crucifier on the other hand loose the range their EWAR type needs and in the case of the Crucifier, loose drones compared to its T1 base version. This in exchange for minor increase to traditional weapon damage over their base T1 version? So the Gallente and Minmatar ones gain their T2 EWAR ship type bonuses instead of the T1 ones (tackle instead of target painters/sensor damps) and the Caldari and Amarr ones just get to be even worse versions of their base T1 ships? This does not give me a lot of confidence in the game direction as a whole.
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 338	Posted - 2015.11.15 09:23:24 - [299] - Quote Jhaelee de'Auvrie wrote: Wow, do these new ships look completely out of balance with each other. The new Navy Maulus is going to be a better Tristan (5 drones plus 14km scram before links) and the Vigil will be an amazing kiter as well with that web bonus. The Navy Griffin and Crucifier on the other hand loose the range their EWAR type needs and in the case of the Crucifier, loose drones compared to its T1 base version. This in exchange for minor increase to traditional weapon damage over their base T1 version? So the Gallente and Minmatar ones gain their T2 EWAR ship type bonuses instead of the T1 ones (tackle instead of target painters/sensor damps) and the Caldari and Amarr ones just get to be even worse versions of their base T1 ships? This does not give me a lot of confidence in the game direction as a whole. I'm sure it has nothing to do with bias. Projectile weapons were buffed twice and all hybrids were buffed not long ago. Beams got overbuffed IMO (small/medium) But the last real pulse laser change, besides some fitting tweaks, was.........2008? It was when the tracking got buffed after webs were nerfed from 90% and they couldn't hit anything. Oh well, if you don't count the scorch nerf. With these frigates it's like a difficulty setting.
Grease PaYN Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists 25	Posted - 2015.11.18 20:31:16 - [300] - Quote The ecm strength of the navy griffin is stronger than that of the t1 griffin. How come the CNI has the same td strength as its t1 counterpart? The CNI really needs a stronger TD bonus if it wants to compete with the likes of the popular fw rail comet fit, arty firetails, or even stand a chance against any cruiser/bc with dual webs (most nowadays basically).

Feodor Romanov Blitzkrieg Federation NEOS FLEET 30	Posted - 2015.11.21 12:22:52 - [301] - Quote Does anybody test this ships on SISi? Can you write some words how are they doing?!
Abbot Jackson Puppies and Christmas 3	Posted - 2015.11.21 13:09:23 - [302] - Quote GRIFFIN NAVY ISSUE the griffin should be way tankier and its ecm range should be way shorter. There should be an ECM boat in existence that can hold its own under fire. It's like ECM is specifically and only for cloaky alt toons these days. Griffin. Lol. Blackbird. Lol but "the range guise". Falcon. Lol "but cloak guise". Rook. Can be pretty tanky, and for that reason either makes people run away or gets immediately primaried. The Navy Griffin should be a formidably active tanked, slow brawler that, if it gets close, should permajam [racial] or 50%+jam [multispec] you, once it's in blaster range. That would be an awesome ship that would be hard to fly; easily counterable, easily kitable, easily blobable. But in the right situation, with the right amount of intel and preparation and scouting, and/or with the right fleetm8s, almost invincible. If it flies like this it could be a good, hard counter to the t2 frig logi. p.s. it would be interesting to see a short range ecm battleship along the same premise. MAULUS NAVY ISSUE This is great. I'd say make the scram range even further. I bet this will come in handy when the new destroyers start turning everything on its head . It should also be pretty cool for when the frig logis come out. VIGIL FLEET ISSUE People who are saying this will push out the hyena are wrong. This thing is completely different. I think mostly lowsec peoples will use it. Not sure if I'll get one or not.
Kasia en Tilavine School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.11.23 04:20:30 - [303] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Reserved Will we be getting a balance update on these before release? The navy crucified and griffin have been almost unanimously considered underpowered because of their 85% reduction. For the crucified the 85% reduction blocks out the strength of both beams and scorch. Superior range in their size class. If you're worried about kite e-war, the base crucifier has an actual range bonus as well as speed. With less range restriction, the navy crucifier could scram kite with scorch and be safe from the enemies own turrets, or fly danger close e-war/dps with beams in small gang. For the griffin, jams are in direct competition with tank, meaning the e-war/tackle they are forced into will make them easy kills for others, or a good rogue wrecking shot. With less range restriction, the e-war could be used sooner in an engagement, or used to screen a second ship from interfering with the tackle. Please consider giving them OPTIONS in terms of how they're flown. Like the maulus and vigil. And not limit them to all in melt at zero only fits.

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13482	Posted - 2015.11.24 13:58:22 - [304] - Quote Hey everyone. Big thanks to all of you for the feedback so far. After reading through what you folks have been saying, we agree that a few points merit changes pre-release and others will be watched closely after release. A lot of you have been expressing concern that the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin are a little on the weak side. We've made a few adjustments to the plan, adding extra HP to both ships, increasing the strength of the cap use role bonus and expanding it to also reduce the CPU requirements of their chosen ewar. We've also reduced the base CPU a bit, but if you have at least one ewar module fit you'll be ahead thanks to the role bonus. We know that this isn't going as far as some of you would have hoped, especially those of you who wanted more range on the ewar. We won't rule out increasing the range a bit in the future, but we want to see how these ships play out on TQ first, as they have a higher than average risk of feeling oppressive if they get too strong. Many of you have also expressed concern that the Navy Maulus and Navy Vigil will be too strong, especially in kiting configurations. We also agree that these concerns merit pre-release changes, so we're making some adjustments to reduce the skirmishing power of these ships. The Navy Maulus is losing a bit of HP and some speed. It will still be a powerful ship but this should help reduce the risk of it getting out of control. We are also increasing the strength of the role bonus, now adding +2 scramble strength to scramblers. The Navy Vigil is having its damage bonuses converted to apply to rockets only. You'll still be able to kite with the web with help from Javelin rockets and/or range modules and rigs, but the Vigil should also excel at chasing down and catching kiters with its speed and long range webs, then killing them within standard rocket range. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1961	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:18:22 - [305] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone. Big thanks to all of you for the feedback so far. After reading through what you folks have been saying, we agree that a few points merit changes pre-release and others will be watched closely after release. A lot of you have been expressing concern that the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin are a little on the weak side. We've made a few adjustments to the plan, adding extra HP to both ships, increasing the strength of the cap use role bonus and expanding it to also reduce the CPU requirements of their chosen ewar. We've also reduced the base CPU a bit, but if you have at least one ewar module fit you'll be ahead thanks to the role bonus. We know that this isn't going as far as some of you would have hoped, especially those of you who wanted more range on the ewar. We won't rule out increasing the range a bit in the future, but we want to see how these ships play out on TQ first, as they have a higher than average risk of feeling oppressive if they get too strong. Many of you have also expressed concern that the Navy Maulus and Navy Vigil will be too strong, especially in kiting configurations. We also agree that these concerns merit pre-release changes, so we're making some adjustments to reduce the skirmishing power of these ships. The Navy Maulus is losing a bit of HP and some speed. It will still be a powerful ship but this should help reduce the risk of it getting out of control. We are also increasing the strength of the role bonus, now adding +2 scramble strength to scramblers. The Navy Vigil is having its damage bonuses converted to apply to rockets only. You'll still be able to kite with the web with help from Javelin rockets and/or range modules and rigs, but the Vigil should also excel at chasing down and catching kiters with its speed and long range webs, then killing them within standard rocket range. Even more excited about the +2 strength to the scramblers! Going to be good for catching stabbed explorers, farmers, etc. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 656	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:28:29 - [306] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone. Big thanks to all of you for the feedback so far. After reading through what you folks have been saying, we agree that a few points merit changes pre-release and others will be watched closely after release. A lot of you have been expressing concern that the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin are a little on the weak side. We've made a few adjustments to the plan, adding extra HP to both ships, increasing the strength of the cap use role bonus and expanding it to also reduce the CPU requirements of their chosen ewar. We've also reduced the base CPU a bit, but if you have at least one ewar module fit you'll be ahead thanks to the role bonus. We know that this isn't going as far as some of you would have hoped, especially those of you who wanted more range on the ewar. We won't rule out increasing the range a bit in the future, but we want to see how these ships play out on TQ first, as they have a higher than average risk of feeling oppressive if they get too strong. Many of you have also expressed concern that the Navy Maulus and Navy Vigil will be too strong, especially in kiting configurations. We also agree that these concerns merit pre-release changes, so we're making some adjustments to reduce the skirmishing power of these ships. The Navy Maulus is losing a bit of HP and some speed. It will still be a powerful ship but this should help reduce the risk of it getting out of control. We are also increasing the strength of the role bonus, now adding +2 scramble strength to scramblers. The Navy Vigil is having its damage bonuses converted to apply to rockets only. You'll still be able to kite with the web with help from Javelin rockets and/or range modules and rigs, but the Vigil should also excel at chasing down and catching kiters with its speed and long range webs, then killing them within standard rocket range. If the damage bonus only applies to rockets on the vigil, do we really need the application bonus with long webs? Could we do split weapon bonus to make projectiles feasible? Or give it a range bonus for rockets so we can actually use the long webs+javelin more effectively? I just dont see the need for an application bonus with rockets when even rages will apply full dps with 1 web. Unless you are linked i suppose. Not to mention being forced into rockets only doesnt help make creative fits. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1247	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:59:04 - [307] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone. Big thanks to all of you for the feedback so far. After reading through what you folks have been saying, we agree that a few points merit changes pre-release and others will be watched closely after release. A lot of you have been expressing concern that the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin are a little on the weak side. We've made a few adjustments to the plan, adding extra HP to both ships, increasing the strength of the cap use role bonus and expanding it to also reduce the CPU requirements of their chosen ewar. We've also reduced the base CPU a bit, but if you have at least one ewar module fit you'll be ahead thanks to the role bonus. We know that this isn't going as far as some of you would have hoped, especially those of you who wanted more range on the ewar. We won't rule out increasing the range a bit in the future, but we want to see how these ships play out on TQ first, as they have a higher than average risk of feeling oppressive if they get too strong. Many of you have also expressed concern that the Navy Maulus and Navy Vigil will be too strong, especially in kiting configurations. We also agree that these concerns merit pre-release changes, so we're making some adjustments to reduce the skirmishing power of these ships. The Navy Maulus is losing a bit of HP and some speed. It will still be a powerful ship but this should help reduce the risk of it getting out of control. We are also increasing the strength of the role bonus, now adding +2 scramble strength to scramblers. The Navy Vigil is having its damage bonuses converted to apply to rockets only. You'll still be able to kite with the web with help from Javelin rockets and/or range modules and rigs, but the Vigil should also excel at chasing down and catching kiters with its speed and long range webs, then killing them within standard rocket range. thats what you got from this thread, not why do most of these out dps most of other frigs? , combined with strong e-war T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Delt0r Garsk Shits N Giggles 484	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:12:52 - [308] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: If the damage bonus only applies to rockets on the vigil, do we really need the application bonus with long webs? Could we do split weapon bonus to make projectiles feasible? Or give it a range bonus for rockets so we can actually use the long webs+javelin more effectively? I just dont see the need for an application bonus with rockets when even rages will apply full dps with 1 web. Unless you are linked i suppose. Not to mention being forced into rockets only doesnt help make creative fits. Don't think application bonus from webs. Think range control bonus. Webs are far more than just getting missiles to apply damage. AKA the scientist. Death and Glory! Well fun is also good.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 657	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:19:31 - [309] - Quote Delt0r Garsk wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: If the damage bonus only applies to rockets on the vigil, do we really need the application bonus with long webs? Could we do split weapon bonus to make projectiles feasible? Or give it a range bonus for rockets so we can actually use the long webs+javelin more effectively? I just dont see the need for an application bonus with rockets when even rages will apply full dps with 1 web. Unless you are linked i suppose. Not to mention being forced into rockets only doesnt help make creative fits. Don't think application bonus from webs. Think range control bonus. Webs are far more than just getting missiles to apply damage. Im aware of range control, that doesnt change the fact you will still hit for full damage with just 1 web with rockets. What is the point of the application bonus when you will always have at least 1 web fitted? Rage missiles will apply with 1 web as well. Its a wasted bonus that only applies to rockets as well. If it applied to light missiles too, that would be different. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Archetype 66 Shiva Northern Coalition. 194	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:21:10 - [310] - Quote And now we could see this spring 6/7 Navy Maulus scrambling a Titan :)

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1179	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:27:38 - [311] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone. Big thanks to all of you for the feedback so far. After reading through what you folks have been saying, we agree that a few points merit changes pre-release and others will be watched closely after release. A lot of you have been expressing concern that the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin are a little on the weak side. We've made a few adjustments to the plan, adding extra HP to both ships, increasing the strength of the cap use role bonus and expanding it to also reduce the CPU requirements of their chosen ewar. We've also reduced the base CPU a bit, but if you have at least one ewar module fit you'll be ahead thanks to the role bonus. We know that this isn't going as far as some of you would have hoped, especially those of you who wanted more range on the ewar. We won't rule out increasing the range a bit in the future, but we want to see how these ships play out on TQ first, as they have a higher than average risk of feeling oppressive if they get too strong. Many of you have also expressed concern that the Navy Maulus and Navy Vigil will be too strong, especially in kiting configurations. We also agree that these concerns merit pre-release changes, so we're making some adjustments to reduce the skirmishing power of these ships. The Navy Maulus is losing a bit of HP and some speed. It will still be a powerful ship but this should help reduce the risk of it getting out of control. We are also increasing the strength of the role bonus, now adding +2 scramble strength to scramblers. The Navy Vigil is having its damage bonuses converted to apply to rockets only. You'll still be able to kite with the web with help from Javelin rockets and/or range modules and rigs, but the Vigil should also excel at chasing down and catching kiters with its speed and long range webs, then killing them within standard rocket range. pretty good. I'm still concerned about the navy griffin, because it uses ecm and ecm is broken. and I still think you need some kind of proper solution to fix drone kiting without just nerfing all drone ships into nothing, my thing for this would be lower drone control ranges for ship classes, and also making it so you can't just run off to 150km and still have your 60km drones attack stuff just fine.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 243	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:34:36 - [312] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone. Big thanks to all of you for the feedback so far. After reading through what you folks have been saying, we agree that a few points merit changes pre-release and others will be watched closely after release. A lot of you have been expressing concern that the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin are a little on the weak side. We've made a few adjustments to the plan, adding extra HP to both ships, increasing the strength of the cap use role bonus and expanding it to also reduce the CPU requirements of their chosen ewar. We've also reduced the base CPU a bit, but if you have at least one ewar module fit you'll be ahead thanks to the role bonus. We know that this isn't going as far as some of you would have hoped, especially those of you who wanted more range on the ewar. We won't rule out increasing the range a bit in the future, but we want to see how these ships play out on TQ first, as they have a higher than average risk of feeling oppressive if they get too strong. Many of you have also expressed concern that the Navy Maulus and Navy Vigil will be too strong, especially in kiting configurations. We also agree that these concerns merit pre-release changes, so we're making some adjustments to reduce the skirmishing power of these ships. The Navy Maulus is losing a bit of HP and some speed. It will still be a powerful ship but this should help reduce the risk of it getting out of control. We are also increasing the strength of the role bonus, now adding +2 scramble strength to scramblers. The Navy Vigil is having its damage bonuses converted to apply to rockets only. You'll still be able to kite with the web with help from Javelin rockets and/or range modules and rigs, but the Vigil should also excel at chasing down and catching kiters with its speed and long range webs, then killing them within standard rocket range. sorry for the tone of my posts here. Most pvp fits will have webs and scrams anyway, having range bonuses on their tackle also gives them a huge advantage over just about every ship in the game. If someone can mwd and kite me at 20km with double webs i might aswell be perma jammed or tracking disrupted to **** anyway because im not catching him, unlike most kiters there's almost no way to slingshot him into my range either because I'm double webbed well outside overheated scram range or in the case of the Navy Maulus I'm scrammed outside overheated web range. these are pirate level bonuses and I don't think they belong on such a cheap class of pvp ships. If you must have them then you have to give the other two full use of their ewar to make them more balanced with each other and just make them all cost 30-40mil isk because that's where the maulus and vigil are at even now, or you need to find some other bonus for the vigil and maulus because they have these huge engagement profiles and not many hard counters apart from a few pirate ships. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 243	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:48:01 - [313] - Quote Harvey James wrote: thats what you got from this thread, not why do most of these out dps most of other frigs? , combined with strong e-war dps is not the issue here, the issue is they have such strong range control dps doesn't even matter. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Feodor Romanov Blitzkrieg Federation NEOS FLEET 31	Posted - 2015.11.25 02:10:59 - [314] - Quote If I understand right the last Fozzie post, no changes will be made any more before the patch release. Welp... Glory to new King of all gate camps and FW plexes Navy Maulus. All other frigates take their rightful places in Royal retinue: Count Vigil as a squire of His Majesty, Crucifier and Griffin as clowns.
Morgan Agrivar Happy Endings Massage Parlor 173	Posted - 2015.11.25 08:11:19 - [315] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The Navy Maulus is losing a bit of HP and some speed. It will still be a powerful ship but this should help reduce the risk of it getting out of control. We are also increasing the strength of the role bonus, now adding +2 scramble strength to scramblers. If it was, at all possible, to have your love child...I would right now. Oh yeah, the Navy Maulus is going to be fun to fly now. Just something about me...
Mork Borlog Zipfeglatscher 12	Posted - 2015.11.25 09:27:06 - [316] - Quote Thank long time was that for "solo PvP" more is done!
Vailen Sere The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 13	Posted - 2015.11.25 19:20:05 - [317] - Quote Abbot Jackson wrote: GRIFFIN NAVY ISSUE the griffin should be way tankier and its ecm range should be way shorter. There should be an ECM boat in existence that can hold its own under fire. It's like ECM is specifically and only for cloaky alt toons these days. Griffin. Lol. Blackbird. Lol but "the range guise". Falcon. Lol "but cloak guise". Rook. Can be pretty tanky, and for that reason either makes people run away or gets immediately primaried. The Navy Griffin should be a formidably active tanked, slow brawler that, if it gets close, should permajam [racial] or 50%+jam [multispec] you, once it's in blaster range. That would be an awesome ship that would be hard to fly; easily counterable, easily kitable, easily blobable. But in the right situation, with the right amount of intel and preparation and scouting, and/or with the right fleetm8s, almost invincible. If it flies like this it could be a good, hard counter to the t2 frig logi. p.s. it would be interesting to see a short range ecm battleship along the same premise. The underlying problem is most ECM ships suffer form the ability to field no tank, or you crnk The SDAII's as much as possible. There are feasible alternatives(at all lvl V), but no ECM boat will be a solo ship. adding armor tank reduces jamming about ~30%, and it gets pretty horrendous on the scorpion trying to tank it.. which makes them all prety much snipe or bust.
Torei Dutalis IceBox Inc. 38	Posted - 2015.11.26 03:18:13 - [318] - Quote Still wondering why the Navy Griffin gets a bump from 15% -> 20% ECM strength bonus over the t1 variant, but the Navy Crucifier (with an overall weaker ewar system) doesn't get a strength bonus. In fact, I'm still wondering why I would fly a Navy Crucifier over a t1 Crucifier. More armor and like 45~ more dps at the cost of speed, a drone and range seems like a pretty bad trade. Having to think about if this ship is actually better than a t1 ship seems to be a clear indicator that the ship needs help.
Harreeb Alls Ministry of War Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2015.11.26 07:12:16 - [319] - Quote Torei Dutalis wrote: Still wondering why the Navy Griffin gets a bump from 15% -> 20% ECM strength bonus over the t1 variant, but the Navy Crucifier (with an overall weaker ewar system) doesn't get a strength bonus. In fact, I'm still wondering why I would fly a Navy Crucifier over a t1 Crucifier. More armor and like 45~ more dps at the cost of speed, a drone and range seems like a pretty mediocre trade. Having to think about if this ship is actually better than a t1 ship seems to be a clear indicator that the ship needs help. I agree, I was thinking the same thing about the griffin. The navy is horribly weaker and less useful than the t1. Here is me flying griffin, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJT71oMFjr8&t=3m0s why would i ever downgrade to the navy griffin. The navy griffin will be dead before it ever lands a jam. Get rid of dmg bonus, give it resist bonus, speed, mwd sig bonus and let it at least jam out to 24km. And basically do the same for the crucifier.
Torei Dutalis IceBox Inc. 38	Posted - 2015.11.26 08:56:24 - [320] - Quote To clarify my post, I am not opposed to the close up design that is being used here. I am more just looking for the ship to be a capable addition to the complement of existing ships and that it be worthy of being a "navy" ship. To be more specific, here is what I would tweak on the navy crucifier: +5% / Level to tracking disruptor strength (Total 12.5% / Level) +10 m/s base speed +5 bandwidth +10 drone bay

elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 915	Posted - 2015.11.26 08:56:52 - [321] - Quote Oh man, I was up all night on SiSi and haven't even checked if they are on yet -.- Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 243	Posted - 2015.11.26 22:30:09 - [322] - Quote Torei Dutalis wrote: To clarify my post, I am not opposed to the close up design that is being used here. I am more just looking for the ship to be a capable addition to the complement of existing ships and that it be worthy of being a "navy" ship. To be more specific, here is what I would tweak on the navy crucifier: +5% / Level to tracking disruptor strength (Total 12.5% / Level) +10 m/s base speed +5 bandwidth +10 drone bay nowhere near enough. the gap between the navy crucifier/griffin and the maulus/vigil is not going to be fixed with tweaks. 2 of them are almost impossible to counter with a standard pvp fit, and two of them will be vulnerable to any t1 kiter, most t2 frigs, anything with neuts, and even a few t1 brawers especially scram kites in case of the navy griffin. if i land in system scan a novice plex and see a navy maulus or navy vigil inside, how many ships can i take in there and expect to kill them 1v1? not very many i can think of. they'll beat any t1 frigate, they'll beat most other navy frigates, they'll even beat most pirate frigs. Only a dribbling moron would lose one of these in a novice plex, they're almost **** proof. Just watch d-scan, you see a kite ship on the gate switch to rage and move to the beacon - nothing's escaping your overheated webs, you see a brawler on the gate move away from the beacon kite them... win 100% of all solo fights and farm dank lp. even in small plexes with assault frigs, inties, and destroyers. they are perfect for running plexes in faction war, not so with the other two. for a start you have to leave the beacon every minute to go and kill a rat, all the time you're away from the beacon killing the rats you're vulnerable to someone coming in, and when you're brawl fit you spend most of your time going back and forward between the rats and the beacon. vigil and maulus don't really care because they have drones and long range weapons so they can set themselves up at their optimal. They need to be radically overhauled, with the Maulus and Vigil needing massive nerfs and the other two needing buffs: 1. Everyone fit's webs/scram regardless of whether you're bonused or not, griffin and crucifier need to use an extra slot to fit their ewar. The Vigil and Maulus should lose a low slot. 2. The vigil and maulus are way too hard to counter because they have such strong range control, nerf max velocity and agility to make them slightly less **** proof 3. The cap regen on the Crucifier and Griffin should be double what the other two get. 2/s seems way too low anyway but especially for brawlers expected to run a slew of active mids it's a joke. 4. An additional tanking bonus on both the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin. Seriously -85% range is a massive negative that's not been compensated for anywhere in the bonuses. The other two have 3 positive bonuses and no penalties, Griffin/Crucifier have 3 positive bonuses and a massive penalty, give them resist bonuses. 5. Really think the Navy Crucifier should have neuts instead of td. If they want it to brawl give it a brawl ewar. 6. Navy Griffin has least amount of drones, slowest lock time, worst agility, almost slowest, almost biggest sig radius... could you maybe not make it worst or second worst in every base stat? How about making the Griffin and the Crucifier faster locking since their survival depends on it, they're expected to be ab fit and they don't have long range webs or scrams. This is how far out of line they are imo. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
erg cz Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 375	Posted - 2015.11.30 13:29:55 - [323] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: 1. Everyone fit's webs/scram regardless of whether you're bonused or not, griffin and crucifier need to use an extra slot to fit their ewar. The Vigil and Maulus should lose a low slot. 2. The vigil and maulus are way too hard to counter because they have such strong range control, nerf max velocity and agility to make them slightly less ****** proof 3. The cap regen on the Crucifier and Griffin should be double what the other two get. 2/s seems way too low anyway but especially for brawlers expected to run a slew of active mids it's a joke. 4. An additional tanking bonus on both the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin. Seriously -85% range is a massive negative that's not been compensated for anywhere in the bonuses. The other two have 3 positive bonuses and no penalties, Griffin/Crucifier have 3 positive bonuses and a massive penalty, give them resist bonuses. 5. Really think the Navy Crucifier should have neuts instead of td. If they want it to brawl give it a brawl ewar. 6. Navy Griffin has least amount of drones, slowest lock time, worst agility, almost slowest, almost biggest sig radius... could you maybe not make it worst or second worst in every base stat? How about making the Griffin and the Crucifier faster locking since their survival depends on it, they're expected to be ab fit and they don't have long range webs or scrams. This is how far out of line they are imo. 1. Maulus is already the slowest frigate out there. Only merlin / astero is at the same level of speed. Low slot will help at least partly counter that. 2. See above. Stop nerfing ships to almost unusable state. Buff other two, if really needed. Less speed and Maulus will be absolutely slowest ship out there. 3. Can be a very reasonable buff, IMHO. Especially for Crucifier. 4. Not so sure if that help. Your biggest concern is range control. If you think they will be kited, more HP will just make them suffer longer, not solving biggest issue. 5. Neuts against minmatar ships... Umm, do not think so. Lore say those ships should be counter against other race. Of cause that will help a lot against gallente or other amarr, but I still think tracking disruptor suits here more... 6. 100% ECM bonus. That, plus much stronger tank than maulus or Vigil, quicker, smaller, than Maulus ... I do not think it is much weakier than other EWAR navy. More PWG, more slots... When I look at Griffin I think Maulus needs a buff here. Its misc bonus is almost unusable in usual PLEX combat (slaughter warp stabbed farmer is not a combat) cause +2 standard scram strength is already +1 more than enough. I saw susccessfull frigates in plex without any point at all. So +4 or +1 makes no difference. Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra 2 weeks of Eve for free!
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Just let it happen 422	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:48:23 - [324] - Quote erg cz wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: 1. Everyone fit's webs/scram regardless of whether you're bonused or not, griffin and crucifier need to use an extra slot to fit their ewar. The Vigil and Maulus should lose a low slot. 2. The vigil and maulus are way too hard to counter because they have such strong range control, nerf max velocity and agility to make them slightly less ****** proof 3. The cap regen on the Crucifier and Griffin should be double what the other two get. 2/s seems way too low anyway but especially for brawlers expected to run a slew of active mids it's a joke. 4. An additional tanking bonus on both the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin. Seriously -85% range is a massive negative that's not been compensated for anywhere in the bonuses. The other two have 3 positive bonuses and no penalties, Griffin/Crucifier have 3 positive bonuses and a massive penalty, give them resist bonuses. 5. Really think the Navy Crucifier should have neuts instead of td. If they want it to brawl give it a brawl ewar. 6. Navy Griffin has least amount of drones, slowest lock time, worst agility, almost slowest, almost biggest sig radius... could you maybe not make it worst or second worst in every base stat? How about making the Griffin and the Crucifier faster locking since their survival depends on it, they're expected to be ab fit and they don't have long range webs or scrams. This is how far out of line they are imo. 1. Maulus is already the slowest frigate out there. Only merlin / astero is at the same level of speed. Low slot will help at least partly counter that. 2. See above. Stop nerfing ships to almost unusable state. Buff other two, if really needed. Less speed and Maulus will be absolutely slowest ship out there. 3. Can be a very reasonable buff, IMHO. Especially for Crucifier. 4. Not so sure if that help. Your biggest concern is range control. If you think they will be kited, more HP will just make them suffer longer, not solving biggest issue. 5. Neuts against minmatar ships... Umm, do not think so. Lore say those ships should be counter against other race. Of cause that will help a lot against gallente or other amarr, but I still think tracking disruptor suits here more... 6. 100% ECM bonus. That, plus much stronger tank than maulus or Vigil, quicker, smaller, than Maulus ... I do not think it is much weakier than other EWAR navy. More PWG, more slots... When I look at Griffin I think Maulus needs a buff here. Its misc bonus is almost unusable in usual PLEX combat (slaughter warp stabbed farmer is not a combat) cause +2 standard scram strength is already +1 more than enough. I saw susccessfull frigates in plex without any point at all. So +4 or +1 makes no difference. 1. And it's the fastest when its MWD is on and the enemy ship's MWD is off because it has 50% longer scram range. It being the slowest while also having 60k damage projection and long scams is completely fair. 2. See above. Also, Griffin and Crucifier need buffs, but the Vigil and Maulus still need small nerfs. Buffing things around them just creates power creep. 4. Still something. At least it makes them a bit better in the role they actually have. 5. I agree here. 6. Definitely weaker when will never get into its pathetic ECM range. It'll never get in range against anyone competent.
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 24	Posted - 2015.11.30 21:53:33 - [325] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone. Big thanks to all of you for the feedback so far. After reading through what you folks have been saying, we agree that a few points merit changes pre-release and others will be watched closely after release. A lot of you have been expressing concern that the Navy Crucifier and Navy Griffin are a little on the weak side. We've made a few adjustments to the plan, adding extra HP to both ships, increasing the strength of the cap use role bonus and expanding it to also reduce the CPU requirements of their chosen ewar. We've also reduced the base CPU a bit, but if you have at least one ewar module fit you'll be ahead thanks to the role bonus. We know that this isn't going as far as some of you would have hoped, especially those of you who wanted more range on the ewar. We won't rule out increasing the range a bit in the future, but we want to see how these ships play out on TQ first, as they have a higher than average risk of feeling oppressive if they get too strong. Many of you have also expressed concern that the Navy Maulus and Navy Vigil will be too strong, especially in kiting configurations. We also agree that these concerns merit pre-release changes, so we're making some adjustments to reduce the skirmishing power of these ships. The Navy Maulus is losing a bit of HP and some speed. It will still be a powerful ship but this should help reduce the risk of it getting out of control. We are also increasing the strength of the role bonus, now adding +2 scramble strength to scramblers. The Navy Vigil is having its damage bonuses converted to apply to rockets only. You'll still be able to kite with the web with help from Javelin rockets and/or range modules and rigs, but the Vigil should also excel at chasing down and catching kiters with its speed and long range webs, then killing them within standard rocket range. Fozzie, I am OK with the the range if the tank can justify getting in close enough without just getting blown up before you can get into range. The rook and the scorpion are the only ECM ships that can do this, and both need logi support from insta primary, because neither ship has the dps to solo fight, unless your fighting someone below your weight class, and your set up just to kill them. After this goes live, please post the 1st 30 days on kills/deaths. if it works with battlecruisers, it should work with these ships as well as an indication on where they are in the frigate food chain.
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 349	Posted - 2015.12.01 12:47:20 - [326] - Quote On attempting to fit a crucifier........... Grid gimped. It wants to fit big guns to take advantage of the damage bonus, and it wants a mwd. 3 lows isn't conducive to active tanking, so it wants a plate. compact mwd 400 compact plate 2x gatling pulse Nothing else fitted. .3 grid over. If it wanted to use that utility high it would have to fit gatling pulse and a 200mm plate. If that nigh-useless high was moved to a low, at least it would have a good slot layout even if it is pretty gimpy when it comes to the grid. That and active tanking would be an option (which I'll likely do anyway since that penalized TD is a joke). If it were up to me, what I'd do with the crucifier/griffin is......... Crucifier Ditch the TD bonus/penalty. Turn that into a neut range bonus akin to sentinel, but with no amount bonus. Might need more grid for an injector and to account for the neut. The neut would add some solo utility, wouldn't do much in a gang but meh. Griffin Change the ecm bonus to a bonus to range/strength/cooldown of ecm bursts. It would be an odd ship, but that would make it really unique. The model would also need a troll.jpg painted on the side.
Grease PaYN Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists 25	Posted - 2015.12.01 16:51:36 - [327] - Quote The griffin and crucifier are being shoehorned into lowsec fw plex fights while you have the maulus and vigil being useful on essentially all types of pvp environments. I think that's the discrepancy most people don't seem to agree with on the cruci/grif vs maulus/vigi debate.
Vailen Sere The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 13	Posted - 2015.12.01 19:41:33 - [328] - Quote Grease PaYN wrote: The griffin and crucifier are being shoehorned into lowsec fw plex fights while you have the maulus and vigil being useful on essentially all types of pvp environments. I think that's the discrepancy most people don't seem to agree with on the cruci/grif vs maulus/vigi debate. Frigates aren't my thing.. unless it's a travel fit inty. That Maulus though is going to see a lot of work at gate camps as fast point.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 1973	Posted - 2015.12.01 21:28:20 - [329] - Quote Grease PaYN wrote: The griffin and crucifier are being shoehorned into lowsec fw plex fights while you have the maulus and vigil being useful on essentially all types of pvp environments. I think that's the discrepancy most people don't seem to agree with on the cruci/grif vs maulus/vigi debate. I agree with this basic analysis. It has to do with the general utility of each racial electronic warfare. Once you take away the standoff from the normally long-range Amarr and Caldari electronic warfare, they are relatively useless (outside of a controlled environment). Once you give extra range to the normally short-range Minmatar and Gallente electronic warfare, they become incredibly useful. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Just let it happen 423	Posted - 2015.12.02 08:08:08 - [330] - Quote Grease PaYN wrote: The griffin and crucifier are being shoehorned into lowsec fw plex fights while you have the maulus and vigil being useful on essentially all types of pvp environments. I think that's the discrepancy most people don't seem to agree with on the cruci/grif vs maulus/vigi debate. And I think that's my basic issue with the design of these ships. Two of them are useful in only one circumstance, and they're even more limited then that because they're only good when they're waiting for the enemy on the warp in of a plex and able to scram targets instantly and hold them down because they'll never catch anything. The Vigil and Maulus on the other hand are good in pretty much every situation. They will always have a use in a fleet. It's just the plain fact that two are useless that bothers me about the design.

Torei Dutalis IceBox Inc. 38	Posted - 2015.12.02 13:26:28 - [331] - Quote The navy crucifier has a lot of potential to be an awesome scram kiting ship, but the key word there is potential. Currently a fit with small focused beams is doing about the same dps as your typical scram kite executioner, but it's about 200 m/s slower. The slowness is really what breaks this ship's viability. If it was a little faster the TD would make it incredibly strong against other turret frigates, unfortunately there's a lot of drones and rockets running around in the FW meta so even then this ship would need more dps to be a strong contender (hint: the slicer has a 25% damage bonus per level) . Additionally, this ship brings almost zero utility to a gang, which is ironically the advantage of most ewar related ships. Essentially this ship is caught between roles, and the overlap with other ships puts it in an unfavorable position. This is a problem that is common to a lot of t1 ships, especially amarr ones in the frigate/cruiser ranges. Ships really need a specific niche or they need solid stats to fit into the meta in a meaningful way. As it stands the navy crucifier has neither of these things.
Arla Sarain 710	Posted - 2015.12.02 13:50:21 - [332] - Quote All these ships are doing is still catering towards the scram kite/kite meta. Hence why the Griffin and Crucifier are not getting much faith. The definition of a light, fast ship needs to change from being flat out fast to being more agile, particularly more agile against heavier ships, even of the same class. So that light ships could exploit the acceleration by changing direction dramatically, forcing their opponent to do the same and because of it losing the speed struggle due to the slower acceleration. Otherwise you will keep juggling the random +/-5 m/s on random hulls hoping it's going to offer some odd margin of error for people to fight over.
Torei Dutalis IceBox Inc. 38	Posted - 2015.12.02 14:53:15 - [333] - Quote Arla Sarain wrote: All these ships are doing is still catering towards the scram kite/kite meta. Hence why the Griffin and Crucifier are not getting much faith. The definition of a light, fast ship needs to change from being flat out fast to being more agile, particularly more agile against heavier ships, even of the same class. So that light ships could exploit the acceleration by changing direction dramatically, forcing their opponent to do the same and because of it losing the speed struggle due to the slower acceleration. Otherwise you will keep juggling the random +/-5 m/s on random hulls hoping it's going to offer some odd margin of error for people to fight over. The problem with this sentiment is that fast ships also tend to be highly agile (usually to an extreme degree). The only example we have of an agility based design as of ever is the Jackdaw. This is however really an example of 1.) massive prenerfing, and 2.) why high agility without speed is pretty much useless. Especially with smaller ships at scram range, the differential in agility makes almost no impact when compared to top speed. The only scenarios in which this might be of serious impact is when we are talking about the kind of acceleration ships experience under oversized afterburners. As it is highly unlikely that a majority of ships will ever be changed to experience this degree of acceleration I think the idea of agility based ships is null and void. I also think that it is important to not lump general kiting (long point MWD) and scram kiting into the same category. While they both rely on range dictation to achieve a combat advantage the meta for each type of play consists of very different ships and overall tactics, hence the differential in naming. Additionally, the fact that changes that are perceived as small are important is a good thing in terms of balance. I personally only feel that one of these ships (the navy crucifier) is currently lacking a good niche to fit into. I realize that many people feel that the navy griffin will not perform up to standards, however I feel that they may be underestimating the effects of the improved fitting of the ship in addition to the ECM. I think that the navy griffin falls into the same kind of situation as the dragoon. The ship is solid, but generally people will be very intimidated by its EWAR capability and will therefore be very prone to blobbing it to avoid having to deal with potential losses. Even eschewing the use of ECM, having 5 mid slots is an uncommon and extremely powerful trait that few ships in this class can mirror. That said, I do believe that the ship could benefit from a 25% damage/level bonus over its current 20%/ level bonus.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 471	Posted - 2015.12.02 14:53:24 - [334] - Quote I spent a while last night trying to fit the navy cruci... and it just doesn't work. When looking at bonuses I had thought it might make a good FW novice plex small gang boat, but it doesn't cut it. Notes: 1. Not enough pg. You have to fit an ancil current router to get a 400mm plate on with any type of guns. This means it pretty much has to be an active rep boat. This limits use to solo contexts. 2. Tank isn't great no matter what you do. Even if you do cram the 400mm plate in, the tank isn't anything special. Certainly not worth the extra money compared to tormentor. 3. Firepower isn't great. It's going be better than the torm's, but only barely. Only three lows makes for really hard fitting choices for an Amarr gunboat. 4. TD bonus isn't any better than normal cruci. But range is shot. All together: A beam+ab/web/scram/td (or 2xweb instead of td), active tank lows fit will do well as a solo scram kite brawler for fighting frigs and dessies and a pulse fit with nos and active rep may do well for fighting many cruisers. But outside that, the ship has little role, even in FW. It certainly does not scale up very well into a boat I would want with me in a frig gang. It needs either more grid so that it can work as a proper amarrian brawler, or it needs a TD bonus that actually makes up for the range reduction. Lord Admiral of PIE inc.
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1790	Posted - 2015.12.02 15:18:56 - [335] - Quote Charlotte Inty wrote: "+1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers" Your stabbed days are over boys. +2 to all warp scrams? Even with two scrams I could catch a Transport Ship (Blockade Runner) with 4 WCs.
Tiffany Thorn The Brothel Cartel 2	Posted - 2015.12.03 06:04:34 - [336] - Quote Ezmerald wrote: So you are adding more cancer ECM ships to the game without even addressing the terrible game mechanism that is ECM? Why in gods name would you add more before fixing it and making ECCM mods actually work? It's clear you've never flown ECM... Clearly you've never had to fly a ship that has absolutely no tank with no guarantee of your modules actually working. Clearly you haven't had the warm fuzzy feeling of having your entire purpose in space tossed our the window over a set of bad RNG rolls, with no hope of actually doing anything for the next 20 seconds. Clearly all you see is your precious DPS count dropping, like every other meat-headed eJock and DudeBro. Come back when you actually know what you're talking about.
Morgan Agrivar Happy Endings Massage Parlor 186	Posted - 2015.12.03 07:47:06 - [337] - Quote Tiffany Thorn wrote: Ezmerald wrote: So you are adding more cancer ECM ships to the game without even addressing the terrible game mechanism that is ECM? Why in gods name would you add more before fixing it and making ECCM mods actually work? It's clear you've never flown ECM... Clearly you've never had to fly a ship that has absolutely no tank with no guarantee of your modules actually working. Clearly you haven't had the warm fuzzy feeling of having your entire purpose in space tossed our the window over a set of bad RNG rolls, with no hope of actually doing anything for the next 20 seconds. Clearly all you see is your precious DPS count dropping, like every other meat-headed eJock and DudeBro. Come back when you actually know what you're talking about. This. People who are complaining have never flown EWAR. My Maulus never had any sort of decent tank and was paper thin at best. Overheating my MWD was my tank in small gang fights and sometimes I didn't make it. Agreed that most people are hung up on dealing out the heat, not preventing it. Just something about me...
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 245	Posted - 2015.12.03 13:43:08 - [338] - Quote The Navy Maulus and the Fleet Vigil are too hard to counter because of the range bonus to tackle, they'll push everything else out of the solo meta. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Torei Dutalis IceBox Inc. 40	Posted - 2015.12.03 14:25:29 - [339] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: The Navy Maulus and the Fleet Vigil are too hard to counter because of the range bonus to tackle, they'll push everything else out of the solo meta. You do realize that the vigil only projects 200~ dps to 8.6km right? The web bonus is effectively wasted when using this ship solo. The dps on the navy maulus is really about the same as you would get from a tristan, its just tankier. You also have to keep in mind that this ship only has a base speed of 315 m/s which is really slow. Ships like the worm (post nerf) are still way way way more threatening than these ships will ever be. Rail comets (and all comets really) will still be a complete menace to novice plexes after these ships come out. There's no doubt that ships with range bonuses to tackle mods are strong ships, but you have to look at the whole ship to really come to a conclusion on balance.
Mad Abbat Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET 23	Posted - 2015.12.04 04:34:32 - [340] - Quote Torei Dutalis wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: The Navy Maulus and the Fleet Vigil are too hard to counter because of the range bonus to tackle, they'll push everything else out of the solo meta. You do realize that the vigil only projects 200~ dps to 8.4km right? The web bonus is effectively wasted when using this ship solo. The dps on the navy maulus is really about the same as you would get from a tristan, its just tankier. You also have to keep in mind that this ship only has a base speed of 315 m/s which is really slow. Ships like the worm (post nerf) are still way way way more threatening than these ships will ever be. Rail comets (and all comets really) will still be a complete menace to novice plexes after these ships come out. There's no doubt that ships with range bonuses to tackle mods are strong ships, but you have to look at the whole ship to really come to a conclusion on balance. General consensus is that 2 of the 3 ships are OP. And can hold the targets untill the gang burns 10 systems over to whore on KM. One ship (griffin) may be interesting. Did I mention 4th ship? It does not exist even after the patch.

Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 245	Posted - 2015.12.04 12:25:30 - [341] - Quote Torei Dutalis wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: The Navy Maulus and the Fleet Vigil are too hard to counter because of the range bonus to tackle, they'll push everything else out of the solo meta. You do realize that the vigil only projects 200~ dps to 8.4km right? The web bonus is effectively wasted when using this ship solo. The dps on the navy maulus is really about the same as you would get from a tristan, its just tankier. You also have to keep in mind that this ship only has a base speed of 315 m/s which is really slow. Ships like the worm (post nerf) are still way way way more threatening than these ships will ever be. Rail comets (and all comets really) will still be a complete menace to novice plexes after these ships come out. There's no doubt that ships with range bonuses to tackle mods are strong ships, but you have to look at the whole ship to really come to a conclusion on balance. vigil: just fit range rigs and you hit out to 15.5km with rage or 23km with javelins. maulus: I've flown tristans a lot which are about the same speed, and I actually used a mwd scram fit anyway but I've caught far faster ships just with manual piloting, and if i don't get them in the first pass 9 times out of 10 I can bug out unless they're linked. The Rail comet will probably push them off, same with a cormorant or arty thrasher or any other long range ship with better dps/ehp ratio but they won't kill them unless the maulus/vigil pilot makes a big mistake. Can someone please name a few solo ships I can use to actually go hunt these - *and kill them* Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Arla Sarain 710	Posted - 2015.12.04 18:14:14 - [342] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Can someone please name a few solo ships I can use to actually go hunt these - *and kill them* No. Gallente supremacy is protected by plot armor. Lore demands it.
Torei Dutalis IceBox Inc. 41	Posted - 2015.12.04 18:27:01 - [343] - Quote Not that any of this matters now that the patch notes are posted....but. Fourteen Maken wrote: 15.5km with rage Did you mean to say faction? Fourteen Maken wrote: I actually used a mwd scram fit Are you implying that you will do something similar with the navy maulus? If so, you autolose to scramkite ships, kind of like I was indicating in my previous post. (also supported by your killboard) Fourteen Maken wrote: I've caught far faster ships just with manual piloting The fact that you know what slingshotting is and your opponents don't has no bearing on the efficacy of these ships. If you are implying that the navy maulus will be better at catching mwd frigs than the tristan, then yes, I agree. However, by your logic, if I was a good pilot I wouldn't fight your navy maulus in the first place. Fourteen Maken wrote: The Rail comet will probably push them off, same with a cormorant or arty thrasher or any other long range ship with better dps/ehp ratio but they won't kill them unless the maulus/vigil pilot makes a big mistake. Can someone please name a few solo ships I can use to actually go hunt these - *and kill them* Oh look, you just did name several ships (lets not forget the other suggestions from earlier in the thread that will also beat them to a pulp). Yes, in a world where you run away from anything that has a halfway decent chance of killing you, I'm sure these ships are invincible, but so is my t1 laser vigil when I go ibis hunting. I think everyone agrees these two ships are strong, but I disagree that they are unbeatable solopwnmobiles which will destroy the FW meta. By your own admission these ships have a hard time beating several highly prolific ships in the current meta. Perhaps the real question we should be asking here is whether faction frigates should be allowed into novices.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 51	Posted - 2015.12.05 01:22:54 - [344] - Quote ooooohhh .... I think I heard my Hyena cry a little. But that's allright my little one - we shall show these bastards what we're made of.
Pestilen Ratte Artimus Ratte 39	Posted - 2015.12.05 02:58:46 - [345] - Quote The Navy Maulus is sexytime. All Navy ships are great. It is about time FW got this kind of boost. Having these ships available for LP will make plexing much more worthwhile.
Mad Abbat Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET 23	Posted - 2015.12.05 06:37:02 - [346] - Quote Pestilen Ratte wrote: The Navy Maulus is sexytime. All Navy ships are great. It is about time FW got this kind of boost. Having these ships available for LP will make plexing much more worthwhile. WARNING BUTTHURT INCOMING Join Amarr millitia then, enjoy our great LP shop, and great golden ships, esp new great blaster (1/2 gallente) punisher, (100% amarr) subpar t2 friglogi, and even worse (100% amarr) ewar CNI. Welcome to Gallspaceship online, a game, if you have at least gallente in the ships prereq, you rock. -atron, maulus, comet, kheres, algos/cata, vexor navy, celestis, ishtar, gila, orthrus, bruti, myrm, domi, vigilant, vindi, moros.... ouch, they considerd BEST of the line! and compae to: -puni, exec, cruxi, omen, zeal, arbi, harbi, apoc, 'baddon, rev... considerd WORST of the line!
Morgan Agrivar Happy Endings Massage Parlor 199	Posted - 2015.12.05 08:00:34 - [347] - Quote Mad Abbat wrote: Pestilen Ratte wrote: The Navy Maulus is sexytime. All Navy ships are great. It is about time FW got this kind of boost. Having these ships available for LP will make plexing much more worthwhile. WARNING BUTTHURT INCOMING Join Amarr millitia then, enjoy our great LP shop, and great golden ships, esp new great blaster (1/2 gallente) punisher, (100% amarr) subpar t2 friglogi, and even worse (100% amarr) ewar CNI. Welcome to Gallspaceship online, a game, if you have at least gallente in the ships prereq, you rock. -atron, maulus, comet, kheres, algos/cata, vexor navy, celestis, ishtar, gila, orthrus, bruti, myrm, domi, vigilant, vindi, moros.... ouch, they considerd BEST of the line! and compae to: -puni, exec, cruxi, omen, zeal, arbi, harbi, apoc, 'baddon, rev... considerd WORST of the line! Or you can just learn to fly all of them. Problem solved. Just something about me...
Mad Abbat Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET 23	Posted - 2015.12.05 10:36:39 - [348] - Quote Morgan Agrivar wrote: Or you can just learn to fly all of them. Problem solved. Or you can just stop being blind/simple. Problem solved.
Morgan Agrivar Happy Endings Massage Parlor 199	Posted - 2015.12.05 12:46:04 - [349] - Quote Mad Abbat wrote: Morgan Agrivar wrote: Or you can just learn to fly all of them. Problem solved. Or you can just stop being blind/simple. Problem solved. Or you can just stop complaining. Problem solved. Just something about me...
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 245	Posted - 2015.12.05 15:47:50 - [350] - Quote Torei Dutalis wrote: Are you implying that you will do something similar with the navy maulus? If so, you autolose to scramkite ships, kind of like I was indicating in my previous post. (also supported by your killboard) how will i autolose to scram kite ships when i have 50% range bonus on my scrams and they dont'? when i can use my mwd and they have an ab how are they going to get me in their scram range to begin with? yes i already said the rail comet is one ship that could push them off but that's not what im asking for, im asking people to name affordable ships i can use to actually pin them down and kill them. I'm not interested in just chasing them out of plexes... and what does it say when one of the only counters is also from the galmil lp store? Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.

Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1071	Posted - 2015.12.05 16:42:22 - [351] - Quote It seems to me the sansha ships with the AB boost would be ok. Worm probably tunes them up pretty good too. Anything with decent long range projection, like light missiles or maybe beams would make itself felt. Pinning them will be hard since long range points is what it does, and people do love their mwd, but it's not that hard to keep up with and a disruptor would keep it from disengaging once you are past it's scream range. A narrow window to be sure, but it's there.
SoulLess Zealot Proioxis Assault Force Exodus. 37	Posted - 2015.12.07 04:19:08 - [352] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Torei Dutalis wrote: Are you implying that you will do something similar with the navy maulus? If so, you autolose to scramkite ships, kind of like I was indicating in my previous post. (also supported by your killboard) how will i autolose to scram kite ships when i have 50% range bonus on my scrams and they dont'? when i can use my mwd and they have an ab how are they going to get me in their scram range to begin with? i think your getting stuck in your own imaginings of what reality will be without getting creative inventive or realistic. there are a multitude of ships and fits that can do this .. and if you want one example i promise i can tackle it in a slasher .. Fourteen Maken wrote: Torei Dutalis wrote: yes i already said the rail comet is one ship that could push them off but that's not what im asking for, im asking people to name affordable ships i can use to actually pin them down and kill them. I'm not interested in just chasing them out of plexes... and what does it say when one of the only counters is also from the galmil lp store? this is really the same question. just wanted to say there is a rut in this thread that seems to have a bunch of heads stuck in it ...maybe we should just bury it and start a new thread say this time next week after all is said and done on TQ
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 246	Posted - 2015.12.07 16:47:26 - [353] - Quote SoulLess Zealot wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: Torei Dutalis wrote: Are you implying that you will do something similar with the navy maulus? If so, you autolose to scramkite ships, kind of like I was indicating in my previous post. (also supported by your killboard) how will i autolose to scram kite ships when i have 50% range bonus on my scrams and they dont'? when i can use my mwd and they have an ab how are they going to get me in their scram range to begin with? i think your getting stuck in your own imaginings of what reality will be without getting creative inventive or realistic. there are a multitude of ships and fits that can do this .. and if you want one example i promise i can tackle it in a slasher .. Fourteen Maken wrote: Torei Dutalis wrote: yes i already said the rail comet is one ship that could push them off but that's not what im asking for, im asking people to name affordable ships i can use to actually pin them down and kill them. I'm not interested in just chasing them out of plexes... and what does it say when one of the only counters is also from the galmil lp store? this is really the same question. just wanted to say there is a rut in this thread that seems to have a bunch of heads stuck in it ...maybe we should just bury it and start a new thread say this time next week after all is said and done on TQ I asked an honest question, how to solo a vigil or maulus because that's what I'm trying to figure out. Mike Voidstar is right, mwd and long point on a ship with better dps/tank and enough speed to keep up is the best tactic, a worm would be perfect i think, possibly a few others like custom fit combat interceptors, maybe even a punnisher now but slasher... how? Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 914	Posted - 2015.12.07 18:48:58 - [354] - Quote Certain ships are just not viable against others in PVP. That's why you make sure you don't limit your self to one set of ships.
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 353	Posted - 2015.12.07 19:52:24 - [355] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Certain ships are just not viable against others in PVP. That's why you make sure you don't limit your self to one set of ships. And that's how the navy crucifier being bad is somehow okay? It may be **, but at least you can train up and fly one of the other ships.
Morgan Agrivar Happy Endings Massage Parlor 206	Posted - 2015.12.07 20:51:06 - [356] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Certain ships are just not viable against others in PVP. That's why you make sure you don't limit your self to one set of ships. After I finish with my perfect subcap gunnery skills, spaceship command is next so I am not limited in what I can fly in PvP. This is sound advice. Just something about me...
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 915	Posted - 2015.12.07 22:05:01 - [357] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Estella Osoka wrote: Certain ships are just not viable against others in PVP. That's why you make sure you don't limit your self to one set of ships. And that's how the navy crucifier being bad is somehow okay? It may be **, but at least you can train up and fly one of the other ships. The biggest kick in the junk is the TD range penalty. It makes about at much sense as giving the navy vigil a web range bonus and then an 85% penalty to web strength. Against ships with rockets it will be able scramkite like a god.
Pestilen Ratte Artimus Ratte 42	Posted - 2015.12.09 00:14:49 - [358] - Quote Firstly, we can all note that this update contains a lot of work. Real work, by engineers and artists. It doesn't matter if the changes are good, bad or ugly. We pay our subscriptions and we get work from CCP folks in return. It is a good deal, getting real work for money, so thanks to the CCP team and congrats on having the work ethic. Second, I hate to say it but the Amarr folks have a legitimate and important point. Drone boats, and therefore the majority of the Gallente line, are OP. I say that as a Gallente pilot who flies drone boats and loves them very much. But I like balance better, and I respect the case made by the Amarr folks. Another way of talking about this issue is to say that Gallente boats are just right, and that turret based weapons systems are under powered. This is my preferred view, and please bear with me as I explain why. My last fight was a good one. I was flying an Exeq Navy Issue (cheap blaster boat from hell) with a gank and moderate hull tank fit, and the other guy was flying a stock vexor. We both had combat SP of around the same levels. It was a pure 1v1 fight, no OGB to my knowledge. We chatted afterwards and the guy has a solid combat pilot mentality. So he won, and he won handsomely. By the time my hull popped, he still had about 25% armour left. Why did he win? The navy issue exeq has 750 dps cold, on paper. It has a fine hull tank. On paper, if it closes range and grabs its enemy, it should melt it real fast. If it gets kited, it has big problems. Here is the thing: I grabbed him. I closed range right away. I spent the WHOLE FIGHT in range of my guns, with web and scram on him, and I was fitted with dual damage mods and a tracking mod. I went lightish on the hull tank to keep the DPS at face raping levels. So how did he win? The answer is pretty simple. A drone boat does not need to spend power grid on weapons systems, and so it can use the power grid for tank (both speed tank and EHP). Furthermore, drones are faster than most ships and they apply damage over a 50km envelope with NO PILOT INPUT. I really have to stress that last point. Drones can apply THE SAME damage over a 50Km range with no pilot input. They get to do this and save huge power grid in the process. Did I mention that you can change your damage type and size instantly, with NO cost to power grid or CPU? Now look at turret based ships, like the navy issue exeq or the ammar line. In order to apply damage with turrets, you need to: 1. Use tech 2 ammo with reduced DPS. This is mandatory in order to get a damage application envelope that will keep hitting something that is moderately kitey and not doubled webbed and scrammed. 2. Fit for speed and agility, so that you can pilot so that your DPS actually hits the enemy. Don't worry that this precludes having large armour tanks. You didn't have the powergrid anyway, because you needed that to use your weapon system. 3. Hope that you don't get capped out. Yeah, those blasters and lasers need cap. Unlike drones. So if your enemy has spare top slots and powergrid, maybe because he doesn't mneed them for his weapons system, he might want to neut you and turn off all your weapons. Now, you might fly out of cap range or fit mid slot cap war resist modules, but this will drop your potential DPS and reduce your ability to dictate range. 4. Concentrate on manual piloting. If you want to apply DPS with turrets, you are going to have to learn how to fly. If you just orbit or keep range, your applied DPS is going to drop by half, at best. So, while you arte concentrating on flying to apply DPS, the happy drone boat pilot can concentrate on mitigating DPS. By kiting, by flying to increase transversal, by using all his spare slots and powergrid to tank it up. All he has to do is dodge your theoretical dps until his drones wear you down. And they will, because you can't fly to kite them, or your guns start missing. You can use your web to kill his drones, but he has plenty more and will escape you because you took your web off him. In other words, turrets get good applied DPS..... never. You work like a cattle dog just to get moderate applied DPS. And you damage type is restricted, so you face huge resists. Drones, by contrast, get fantastic DPS if the other pilot is preoccupied with, say trying to apply damage of this own. One way to fix this imbalance would be to nerf drone boats. The other way would be to massively boost the theorectical DPS on brawling turret boats. I don't mind flying a blaster boat weapon platform that will die if it gets kited and needs some pilot skills to grab and hold the enemy. But it is absurd to fly an advanced navy blaster platform, to engage and grab the enemy, to dictate range, to apply damage the whole fight, and to then lose anyway. By a lot. To an inferior tech one hull!! If a specialized brawler gets a hold of you, it really should be your ass. Otherwise it isn't a brawler. It is just drone fodder. The understanding in the player base, across all race profiles, must be, if your drone boat gets grabbed by a specialist short range turret platform, you will most probably die in a hail of fire.
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 227	Posted - 2015.12.09 08:19:23 - [359] - Quote Pestilen Ratte wrote: Firstly, we can all note that this update contains a lot of work. Real work, by engineers and artists. It doesn't matter if the changes are good, bad or ugly. We pay our subscriptions and we get work from CCP folks in return. It is a good deal, getting real work for money, so thanks to the CCP team and congrats on having the work ethic. Second, I hate to say it but the Amarr folks have a legitimate and important point. Drone boats, and therefore the majority of the Gallente line, are OP. I say that as a Gallente pilot who flies drone boats and loves them very much. But I like balance better, and I respect the case made by the Amarr folks. Another way of talking about this issue is to say that Gallente boats are just right, and that turret based weapons systems are under powered. This is my preferred view, and please bear with me as I explain why. My last fight was a good one. I was flying an Exeq Navy Issue (cheap blaster boat from hell) with a gank and moderate hull tank fit, and the other guy was flying a stock vexor. We both had combat SP of around the same levels. It was a pure 1v1 fight, no OGB to my knowledge. We chatted afterwards and the guy has a solid combat pilot mentality. So he won, and he won handsomely. By the time my hull popped, he still had about 25% armour left. Why did he win? The navy issue exeq has 750 dps cold, on paper. It has a fine hull tank. On paper, if it closes range and grabs its enemy, it should melt it real fast. If it gets kited, it has big problems. Here is the thing: I grabbed him. I closed range right away. I spent the WHOLE FIGHT in range of my guns, with web and scram on him, and I was fitted with dual damage mods and a tracking mod. I went lightish on the hull tank to keep the DPS at face raping levels. So how did he win? The answer is pretty simple. A drone boat does not need to spend power grid on weapons systems, and so it can use the power grid for tank (both speed tank and EHP). Furthermore, drones are faster than most ships and they apply damage over a 50km envelope with NO PILOT INPUT. I really have to stress that last point. Drones can apply THE SAME damage over a 50Km range with no pilot input. They get to do this and save huge power grid in the process. Did I mention that you can change your damage type and size instantly, with NO cost to power grid or CPU? Now look at turret based ships, like the navy issue exeq or the ammar line. In order to apply damage with turrets, you need to: 1. Use tech 2 ammo with reduced DPS. This is mandatory in order to get a damage application envelope that will keep hitting something that is moderately kitey and not doubled webbed and scrammed. 2. Fit for speed and agility, so that you can pilot so that your DPS actually hits the enemy. Don't worry that this precludes having large armour tanks. You didn't have the powergrid anyway, because you needed that to use your weapon system. 3. Hope that you don't get capped out. Yeah, those blasters and lasers need cap. Unlike drones. So if your enemy has spare top slots and powergrid, maybe because he doesn't mneed them for his weapons system, he might want to neut you and turn off all your weapons. Now, you might fly out of cap range or fit mid slot cap war resist modules, but this will drop your potential DPS and reduce your ability to dictate range. 4. Concentrate on manual piloting. If you want to apply DPS with turrets, you are going to have to learn how to fly. If you just orbit or keep range, your applied DPS is going to drop by half, at best. So, while you arte concentrating on flying to apply DPS, the happy drone boat pilot can concentrate on mitigating DPS. By kiting, by flying to increase transversal, by using all his spare slots and powergrid to tank it up. All he has to do is dodge your theoretical dps until his drones wear you down. And they will, because you can't fly to kite them, or your guns start missing. You can use your web to kill his drones, but he has plenty more and will escape you because you took your web off him. In other words, turrets get good applied DPS..... never. You work like a cattle dog just to get moderate applied DPS. And you damage type is restricted, so you face huge resists. Drones, by contrast, get fantastic DPS if the other pilot is preoccupied with, say trying to apply damage of this own. One way to fix this imbalance would be to nerf drone boats. The other way would be to massively boost the theorectical DPS, and thus the applied DPS, on brawling turret boats. I don't mind flying a blaster boat weapon platform that will die if it gets kited and needs some pilot skills to grab and hold the enemy. But it is absurd to fly an advanced navy blaster platform, to engage and grab the enemy, to dictate range, to apply damage the whole fight, and to then lose anyway. By a lot. To an inferior tech one hull!! If a specialized brawler gets a hold of you, it really should be your ass. Otherwise it isn't a brawler. It is just drone fodder. The understanding in the player base, across all race profiles, must be, if your drone boat gets grabbed by a specialist short range turret platform, you will most probably die in a hail of fire. ******* +1 ~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 915	Posted - 2015.12.09 20:11:29 - [360] - Quote Pestilen Ratte wrote: Firstly, we can all note that this update contains a lot of work. Real work, by engineers and artists. It doesn't matter if the changes are good, bad or ugly. We pay our subscriptions and we get work from CCP folks in return. It is a good deal, getting real work for money, so thanks to the CCP team and congrats on having the work ethic. Second, I hate to say it but the Amarr folks have a legitimate and important point. Drone boats, and therefore the majority of the Gallente line, are OP. I say that as a Gallente pilot who flies drone boats and loves them very much. But I like balance better, and I respect the case made by the Amarr folks. Another way of talking about this issue is to say that Gallente boats are just right, and that turret based weapons systems are under powered. This is my preferred view, and please bear with me as I explain why. My last fight was a good one. I was flying an Exeq Navy Issue (cheap blaster boat from hell) with a gank and moderate hull tank fit, and the other guy was flying a stock vexor. We both had combat SP of around the same levels. It was a pure 1v1 fight, no OGB to my knowledge. We chatted afterwards and the guy has a solid combat pilot mentality. So he won, and he won handsomely. By the time my hull popped, he still had about 25% armour left. Why did he win? The navy issue exeq has 750 dps cold, on paper. It has a fine hull tank. On paper, if it closes range and grabs its enemy, it should melt it real fast. If it gets kited, it has big problems. Here is the thing: I grabbed him. I closed range right away. I spent the WHOLE FIGHT in range of my guns, with web and scram on him, and I was fitted with dual damage mods and a tracking mod. I went lightish on the hull tank to keep the DPS at face raping levels. So how did he win? The answer is pretty simple. A drone boat does not need to spend power grid on weapons systems, and so it can use the power grid for tank (both speed tank and EHP). Furthermore, drones are faster than most ships and they apply damage over a 50km envelope with NO PILOT INPUT. I really have to stress that last point. Drones can apply THE SAME damage over a 50Km range with no pilot input. They get to do this and save huge power grid in the process. Did I mention that you can change your damage type and size instantly, with NO cost to power grid or CPU? Now look at turret based ships, like the navy issue exeq or the ammar line. In order to apply damage with turrets, you need to: 1. Use tech 2 ammo with reduced DPS. This is mandatory in order to get a damage application envelope that will keep hitting something that is moderately kitey and not doubled webbed and scrammed. 2. Fit for speed and agility, so that you can pilot so that your DPS actually hits the enemy. Don't worry that this precludes having large armour tanks. You didn't have the powergrid anyway, because you needed that to use your weapon system. 3. Hope that you don't get capped out. Yeah, those blasters and lasers need cap. Unlike drones. So if your enemy has spare top slots and powergrid, maybe because he doesn't mneed them for his weapons system, he might want to neut you and turn off all your weapons. Now, you might fly out of cap range or fit mid slot cap war resist modules, but this will drop your potential DPS and reduce your ability to dictate range. 4. Concentrate on manual piloting. If you want to apply DPS with turrets, you are going to have to learn how to fly. If you just orbit or keep range, your applied DPS is going to drop by half, at best. So, while you arte concentrating on flying to apply DPS, the happy drone boat pilot can concentrate on mitigating DPS. By kiting, by flying to increase transversal, by using all his spare slots and powergrid to tank it up. All he has to do is dodge your theoretical dps until his drones wear you down. And they will, because you can't fly to kite them, or your guns start missing. You can use your web to kill his drones, but he has plenty more and will escape you because you took your web off him. In other words, turrets get good applied DPS..... never. You work like a cattle dog just to get moderate applied DPS. And you damage type is restricted, so you face huge resists. Drones, by contrast, get fantastic DPS if the other pilot is preoccupied with, say trying to apply damage of this own. One way to fix this imbalance would be to nerf drone boats. The other way would be to massively boost the theorectical DPS, and thus the applied DPS, on brawling turret boats. I don't mind flying a blaster boat weapon platform that will die if it gets kited and needs some pilot skills to grab and hold the enemy. But it is absurd to fly an advanced navy blaster platform, to engage and grab the enemy, to dictate range, to apply damage the whole fight, and to then lose anyway. By a lot. To an inferior tech one hull!! If a specialized brawler gets a hold of you, it really should be your ass. Otherwise it isn't a brawler. It is just drone fodder. The understanding in the player base, across all race profiles, must be, if your drone boat gets grabbed by a specialist short range turret platform, you will most probably die in a hail of fire. And you didn't kill off his drones because....?

Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 25	Posted - 2015.12.09 22:07:46 - [361] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: And you didn't kill off his drones because....? This only covers part of it. the "change in dps" requires them drones that you just sent out 50k to fly back to you, swap out and fly back out. I'll consider this about equive to missile launcher reload times. Judging by the ship it was probably medium drones, which sure don't move as fast as lights (unless theres a drone navigation computer fitted, that I doubt). Also drone control is easy. kill them all till they are all gone. He has no more dps than. It happens, but sometimes in the heat of battle when panic when we should be shooting them drones. I've done it. But if your a brawler (im assuming blaster fit) than with that superior dps, you should have been able to hold him and let him empty his drone bay. Even Turret disruption doesn't mess up dps uniformity to blapping drones. than he probably hasn't filled up on only heavies and has to field smaller drones. doing less dps.
Pestilen Ratte Artimus Ratte 61	Posted - 2015.12.11 02:36:29 - [362] - Quote I didn't kill off his drones because I didn't want him to get away. If you don't use a web, trying to kill Valkerie II or Warrior II drones with medium blasters is not going to be easy. If you do use a web, you just let the enemy escape. I actually set my flight of light drones on his large drone, but they took forever to do damage. In any case, drone boats like the Vexor have huge space for extra drones. You can spend minutes and minutes killing them before the DPS starts to go down. Not only that, all the time you spend shooting his drones is time you are not breaking his tank. Not only that, he was fit with 4 guns as well as all his drones and their bonuses. Which is not bad for a tech 1 hull, but ....... behold the mighty vexor. So even if I had killed his drones, and even if he didn't fly away as I tried to do that, he would have been starting the fight at max health while I was staring in half hull. And he would have had four guns to finish the job. The only time I ever had "shoot the drones" work for me was fighting with an Enyo dual proper against a Proteus. I shot out his flight of lights and got under his guns with the AB. So then he freaked and called his buddies with a command ship and tech 2 ECM, and they popped me. I'm not complaining. Eve is eve, and some ships have to be the best. Drone boats are it!
KeithStone Yotosala Snake River Jump Squad The Southern Syndicate 1	Posted - 2015.12.13 02:47:19 - [363] - Quote Let's give one team in FW 5km ranges on all their new ships, and the other side we will give range bonuses and drone damage/hp bonuses too! And they laughed and laughed and laughed...
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Just let it happen 428	Posted - 2015.12.13 20:22:51 - [364] - Quote KeithStone Yotosala wrote: Let's give one team in FW 5km ranges on all their new ships, and the other side we will give range bonuses and drone damage/hp bonuses too! And they laughed and laughed and laughed... And the other side will, in addition to range and drone bonuses, have bonuses to the range of range control modules to guarantee the two 5km range ships will never get in range. Edit: it's rather more that you can fit up a javelin rocket kiting Vigil and never let anything in range or avoid anything with range to challenge you, and that the Maulus is a souped up pre-nerf Tristan.
Pestilen Ratte Artimus Ratte 61	Posted - 2015.12.14 00:00:36 - [365] - Quote KeithStone Yotosala wrote: Let's give one team in FW 5km ranges on all their new ships, and the other side we will give range bonuses and drone damage/hp bonuses too! And they laughed and laughed and laughed... What about the irony? Amarr are supposed to be a spiritual race. Caldari are supposed to be corporate wizards. And yet, just look at their new navy frigates. Crippled drone fodder. Clear evidence that all the gods hold them in contempt. There was much cheering and hilarity on the galmil channel when the first killmails started coming in. In the interests of fairness, please let me say to Caldari: Sucked in, this is what you get for being creepy weirdos who fly in stabbed blobs.
Ares Desideratus EVE OF EVELUTION 332	Posted - 2015.12.17 23:34:08 - [366] - Quote Maulus and Vigil are good ships, but I have yet to see a compelling argument that says they are OP. Crucifier and Griffin are mediocre.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 252	Posted - 2015.12.18 15:04:23 - [367] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Maulus and Vigil are good ships, but I have yet to see a compelling argument that says they are OP. Crucifier and Griffin are mediocre. Now that it's out and i've had a look at some fits I can see the Navy Vigil is not as bad as I expected, removing the dmg bonus from light missiles forces big compromises. The Navy Maulus is far too strong. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Ares Desideratus EVE OF EVELUTION 332	Posted - 2015.12.18 16:55:35 - [368] - Quote Actually, the Vigil can easily be fit to kite with Javelin rockets so it's really not any worse off than if it had a bonus to light missiles. It's secretly designed to be a 10mn / Javelin kiter with defensive web. I don't see what makes the Maulus so powerful. It's slow and it's drones can easily be killed off. Don't get me wrong it's a really good ship, but I think it's about as powerful as a navy ewar frigate should be.
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 25	Posted - 2015.12.26 01:18:51 - [369] - Quote Fourteen Maken wrote: Torei Dutalis wrote: Fourteen Maken wrote: The Navy Maulus and the Fleet Vigil are too hard to counter because of the range bonus to tackle, they'll push everything else out of the solo meta. You do realize that the vigil only projects 200~ dps to 8.4km right? The web bonus is effectively wasted when using this ship solo. The dps on the navy maulus is really about the same as you would get from a tristan, its just tankier. You also have to keep in mind that this ship only has a base speed of 315 m/s which is really slow. Ships like the worm (post nerf) are still way way way more threatening than these ships will ever be. Rail comets (and all comets really) will still be a complete menace to novice plexes after these ships come out. There's no doubt that ships with range bonuses to tackle mods are strong ships, but you have to look at the whole ship to really come to a conclusion on balance. vigil: just fit range rigs and you hit out to 15.5km with rage or 23km with javelins. maulus: I've flown tristans a lot which are about the same speed, and I actually used a mwd scram fit anyway but I've caught far faster ships just with manual piloting, and if i don't get them in the first pass 9 times out of 10 I can bug out unless they're linked. The Rail comet will probably push them off, same with a cormorant or arty thrasher or any other long range ship with better dps/ehp ratio but they won't kill them unless the maulus/vigil pilot makes a big mistake. Can someone please name a few solo ships I can use to actually go hunt these - *and kill them* Arazu Pilgrim
Harreeb Alls Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 28	Posted - 2015.12.27 20:35:41 - [370] - Quote I have yet to see a single one flown in combat and i live in one of the most active pvp systems in eve. I would love to see some stats on the popularity if thses ships.

Ares Desideratus EVE OF EVELUTION 332	Posted - 2015.12.29 16:58:38 - [371] - Quote Harreeb Alls wrote: I have yet to see a single one flown in combat and i live in one of the most active pvp systems in eve. I would love to see some stats on the popularity if thses ships. I've seem then in high low and null sec, they're not he most popular ships ever but they're just navy frigates. the Vigil is a cheap long web and maulus is a decent long scram crucifier and griffin are niche and mediocre, but definitely still fun to play with, and they're different so that's a good thing
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 361	Posted - 2015.12.30 04:02:13 - [372] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Harreeb Alls wrote: I have yet to see a single one flown in combat and i live in one of the most active pvp systems in eve. I would love to see some stats on the popularity if thses ships. I've seem then in high low and null sec, they're not he most popular ships ever but they're just navy frigates. the Vigil is a cheap long web and maulus is a decent long scram crucifier and griffin are niche and mediocre, but definitely still fun to play with, and they're different so that's a good thing Being different is good, sure. But the problem is the crucifier is a squishy, slow, grid gimped, range gimped slicer with more mids. While those 4 mids mean a lot, the lack of grid and the 3 lows holds it back. It can't even fit a 400mm compact plate, 1mn compact ab, and gatling pulse without a grid rig. If it were an ewar ship that would be understandable. As things are you'd be better off using a navy maulus in that role. Just toss a mwd, scram, TD on it with an armor buffer and you're fine.
Fourteen Maken Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance 252	Posted - 2015.12.31 08:42:27 - [373] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Actually, the Vigil can easily be fit to kite with Javelin rockets so it's really not any worse off than if it had a bonus to light missiles. It's secretly designed to be a 10mn / Javelin kiter with defensive web. I don't see what makes the Maulus so powerful. It's slow and it's drones can easily be killed off. Don't get me wrong it's a really good ship, but I think it's about as powerful as a navy ewar frigate should be. The Vigil with light missiles didn't have to fit any kind of missile range rigs so it could fit a really strong shield tank, with being super fast high dps and defensive 20km web it would be easy mode kiting. As it stands it's not as tanky so a lot of ships even some t1 frigs can kill it without getting into super niche fits, and it doesn't have as much range. Navy Maulus: [Maulus Navy Issue, active tank fit] Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Small Armor Repairer II Warp Scrambler II Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 200 1MN Afterburner II 75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Iron Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hobgoblin II x5 Acolyte II x5 195 EHP/s active tank (with heat and standard exile) about 130 dps. or a shield kite MWD fit: [Maulus Navy Issue, shield fit] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Nanofiber Internal Structure II 5MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Medium Shield Extender II 125mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Lead Charge S 125mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Lead Charge S Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 7k ehp 150dps 3069m/s or 4388m/s with heat. Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war: The sinews of war; infinite money.
Ares Desideratus EVE OF EVELUTION 332	Posted - 2016.01.01 23:10:44 - [374] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: Harreeb Alls wrote: I have yet to see a single one flown in combat and i live in one of the most active pvp systems in eve. I would love to see some stats on the popularity if thses ships. I've seem then in high low and null sec, they're not he most popular ships ever but they're just navy frigates. the Vigil is a cheap long web and maulus is a decent long scram crucifier and griffin are niche and mediocre, but definitely still fun to play with, and they're different so that's a good thing Being different is good, sure. But the problem is the crucifier is a squishy, slow, grid gimped, range gimped slicer with more mids. While those 4 mids mean a lot, the lack of grid and the 3 lows holds it back. It can't even fit a 400mm compact plate, 1mn compact ab, and gatling pulse without a grid rig. If it were an ewar ship that would be understandable. As things are you'd be better off using a navy maulus in that role. Just toss a mwd, scram, TD on it with an armor buffer and you're fine. Unfortunately you're right. I know this might sound weird but I think a good idea for the crucifier navy issue would have been as some type of rocket / ewar hybrid, like a vengeance mixed with a sentinel or whatever I mean, since they took away it's droneboatedness, I think that would have been much more interesting
Klaatu Krypto Never mind the bollocks here's the corp 0	Posted - 2016.01.03 18:45:06 - [375] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: These ships are designed to use their racial ewar bonuses (primary ewar for Amarr and Caldari, secondary for Gallente and Minmatar) in unusual ways, skewed towards solo and microgang combat. Overall we don't expect these ships to eclipse Electronic Attack Frigates for fleet support roles, but the combination of ewar with significant frigate damage puts them into their own category. I fought a Griff NI and a Vigil FI today. Those two - at least - are two powerful for T1 frig that can enter novice plexes. I don't understand the need of those new ships apart bringing the electronic frig useless and ruining a bit more the fights. There were already T1 designed ewar frigs, which were useful and efficient when well-used in small gang. T2 frigs are disappearing. No more EAF I guess, no more AF .... Such a long time I havent seen and fought an AF as well .... sigh
Milostiev Full of Dreams 1	Posted - 2016.01.12 16:27:30 - [376] - Quote Pestilen Ratte wrote: My last fight was a good one. I was flying an Exeq Navy Issue (cheap blaster boat from hell) with a gank and moderate hull tank fit, and the other guy was flying a stock vexor. We both had combat SP of around the same levels. It was a pure 1v1 fight, no OGB to my knowledge. We chatted afterwards and the guy has a solid combat pilot mentality. So he won, and he won handsomely. By the time my hull popped, he still had about 25% armour left. Why did he win? The navy issue exeq has 750 dps cold, on paper. It has a fine hull tank. On paper, if it closes range and grabs its enemy, it should melt it real fast. If it gets kited, it has big problems. Here is the thing: I grabbed him. I closed range right away. I spent the WHOLE FIGHT in range of my guns, with web and scram on him, and I was fitted with dual damage mods and a tracking mod. I went lightish on the hull tank to keep the DPS at face raping levels. So how did he win? To truly gank you need to overwhelm the active tank/ehp of the target, 750dps is not 'overwhelm' gank dps unless you fight something significantly lower in tank. I'm gonna guess the Vexor had dual repp tank or plate + repp with one repp being an ancillary. If that is the case (and especially for dual repp), if he had solid tank in lows, the only way to beat him is to wait out the 8 cycles of AAR he has, and put it all on him. Furthermore, if you did put drones on his drones, you sacrificed ~100dps. So you weren't fully gank. I'm not really sure if that 100dps would have helped you in that particular situation, but without it, your dps is a far more manageable (and tankable) 650. Quote: The answer is pretty simple. A drone boat does not need to spend power grid on weapons systems, and so it can use the power grid for tank (both speed tank and EHP). Furthermore, drones are faster than most ships and they apply damage over a 50km envelope with NO PILOT INPUT. I really have to stress that last point. Drones can apply THE SAME damage over a 50Km range with no pilot input. They get to do this and save huge power grid in the process. In the scenario you are describing, drones have a slight disadvantage because a 2/2/1 configuration on the Vexor will arrive on the target and apply dps staggered. As most ppl use Ogre II's with their awesome speed of 1400-1500 m/s, it takes a while to cover 50k. 2/2/1 is not a good configuration for sending drones 50k away. 5 meds, 5 lights, 5 sentries, sure. Quote: Did I mention that you can change your damage type and size instantly, with NO cost to power grid or CPU? Now look at turret based ships, like the navy issue exeq or the ammar line. On the Vexor, the drones you exit the station with, are the drones you will be using untill (most likely) you die. You do not have enough drone bay to alternate the dps. The Arbitrator can do that, the Ishtar can do that, the Astero can do that .... Vexor trades that in for slightly more dps.
Milostiev Full of Dreams 1	Posted - 2016.01.12 16:45:13 - [377] - Quote Quote: In order to apply damage with turrets, you need to: 1. Use tech 2 ammo with reduced DPS. This is mandatory in order to get a damage application envelope that will keep hitting something that is moderately kitey and not doubled webbed and scrammed. 2. Fit for speed and agility, so that you can pilot so that your DPS actually hits the enemy. Don't worry that this precludes having large armour tanks. You didn't have the powergrid anyway, because you needed that to use your weapon system. I can't speak for above cruisers (i have come back from a 3yr break and i haven't flown bc and above in a while), but in cruisers and below this is not true. Dual repp Rupture, Vexor, Thorax, do in fact work. You are not going to do gank dps, but 500-600 is doable, and 500-600 tankable dps is also doable (for about 1minute). You do however have to trick the enemy to come in scram/webb range so you have to play around stargates a lot and annoying the enemy is crucial. Quote: 3. Hope that you don't get capped out. Yeah, those blasters and lasers need cap. Unlike drones. So if your enemy has spare top slots and powergrid, maybe because he doesn't mneed them for his weapons system, he might want to neut you and turn off all your weapons. Now, you might fly out of cap range or fit mid slot cap war resist modules, but this will drop your potential DPS and reduce your ability to dictate range. Projectiles and missiles share the same bonus. Quote: 4. Concentrate on manual piloting. If you want to apply DPS with turrets, you are going to have to learn how to fly. If you just orbit or keep range, your applied DPS is going to drop by half, at best. So, while you arte concentrating on flying to apply DPS, the happy drone boat pilot can concentrate on mitigating DPS. By kiting, by flying to increase transversal, by using all his spare slots and powergrid to tank it up. All he has to do is dodge your theoretical dps until his drones wear you down. And they will, because you can't fly to kite them, or your guns start missing. You can use your web to kill his drones, but he has plenty more and will escape you because you took your web off him. Some ships do in fact have this bonus, of not worrying about anything when it comes to drones, but the Vexor ain't one of them. If the target gets away, you have to recall drones, and either get out, or launch again when you have tackle. The point you bright however is very valid with the Worm. Not only are it's drones hard to kill, but they are also quite fast, and the ship has backups in the same class. Quote: In other words, turrets get good applied DPS..... never. You work like a cattle dog just to get moderate applied DPS. And you damage type is restricted, so you face huge resists. Drones, by contrast, get fantastic DPS if the other pilot is preoccupied with, say trying to apply damage of this own. One way to fix this imbalance would be to nerf drone boats. The other way would be to massively boost the theorectical DPS, and thus the applied DPS, on brawling turret boats. I don't mind flying a blaster boat weapon platform that will die if it gets kited and needs some pilot skills to grab and hold the enemy. But it is absurd to fly an advanced navy blaster platform, to engage and grab the enemy, to dictate range, to apply damage the whole fight, and to then lose anyway. By a lot. To an inferior tech one hull!! If a specialized brawler gets a hold of you, it really should be your ass. Otherwise it isn't a brawler. It is just drone fodder. The understanding in the player base, across all race profiles, must be, if your drone boat gets grabbed by a specialist short range turret platform, you will most probably die in a hail of fire. You lost to a superior fit and to what i can only guess are superior tactics. One of the best fights i had since returning to eve was a rocket kessy vs tristan fight. I was in rocket kessy, mwd, scram, webb and mse fit, the other dude had hull tanked tristan with more ehp and just slightly less dps. I won because i pulled away to 40-50, killed some drones, made him recover them, and then dived in. Instead of having them out from the start, shaving away my ehp before i got in range, which probably made sure i started the fight with 1000 ehp more than i would normally have. I won in half hull, and the kessy does not have a lot of hull (launchers burned 90% and had rage ammo loaded). Sometimes little things like that matter.
ARES-DESIDERATUS Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.03.14 05:39:46 - [378] - Quote Are you guys just going to leave these frigates in the sad state they are in?


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