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Concerning the Recent Allegations of Developer Misconduct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:42:00 - [31] Originally by: mazzilliu CCP have not nor will not discuss GM decisions with third parties - Cortes but it's so relevent, and you know as well as everyone does that whatever happens will be posted publically. GIVE ME BACK MY EXCLAMATION MARK PORTRAIT :( :( :( :( :( :(
Sinze	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:44:00 - [32] Edited by: Sinze on 07/02/2007 05:40:22 Originally by: Merciless1 Originally by: JForce CCP have not nor will not discuss GM decisions with third parties - Cortes It's begging to seem like CCP won't discuss anything with anyone. If they refuse to answer us, we can just quit. I won't play a game in which the developers of the game cheat so they can let their "favorite alliance" get to the top. Thanks to Iraf Thaiberd for this sig. I'm sure it will become increasingly popular. Please don't use your sig to troll - Ductoris
Cringeley Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:45:00 - [33] Kieron, you seem to think that you're the police, or a dictator, and all you have to do is stave off discovery and keep everyone in the dark, and everything will be ok. This is customer relations. You can treat us like customers and get our money, or you can treat us like mushrooms and get a big stanky box of rotten mushrooms to eat while you wait for an unemployment cheque. But you can't keep us in the dark and feed us !@#$ and expect us to pay for the privilege. I have never been a major proponent of this whole dev misconduct outrage. I agree that devs should be allowed to sample the game, both for their benefit and ours. But this answer you have given is just ridiculous. Devs have played with an in-game alliance, and revealed their identity to their allies. They have done so selectively, and they have delivered major financial benefits to their in-game friends. Worst of all, some CCP employees seem to be able to get away with this, while others who have made contact with other alliances have been brought up short for doing so. Now whether or not there was any formal cheating involved, you have a major conflict of interest problem on your hands, and you haven't even taken the first of a thousand steps towards solving it. When you were investigating I assumed that things would come out for the best, but this answer has struck my faith in CCP really, really low. Now I'm just waiting to see if devs take in-game reprisals against those who brought the issue to public attention. -------------------------------------------- Thrice is he armed who has his quarrel just, But four times he who gets his blow in fust.
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:48:00 - [34] I used to be able to feel completely fine about recommending this game to my friends to play. Now... well, I really don't think I will unless MAJOR changes are made. Please don't use your sig to troll - Ductoris
Par'Gellen Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:50:00 - [35] Edited by: Par''Gellen on 07/02/2007 05:49:05 I'll tell you what. I'll consider this topic over and done with if you (CCP) will put T2 BPO's on the market. I don't even care if they cost 500 billion isk. At least they would be ATTAINABLE BY PEOPLE THAT WORK HARD TO GET THEM! Edit: Or at least make the things needed for invention available on the market. --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:56:00 - [36] The most disturbing point about all of this: Most companies like CCP have various security levels with access levels increasing exponentially at the upper levels. I'm sure that 90% or so of CCPs employees have almost no access to the game when compared to a regular 'civilian' player like we are. What this means is that the people responsible for these infractions (which basically amounts to outright cheating if the rumors are to be belived) are very high up in CCP's infrastructure. The people who have enough access to the game to actually achieve an impact on this scale and level are not some newly hired twenty year old geek junior GM or customer support rep or something. Or even a higher level programmer for that matter. Of course I'm just guessing and making extrapolations based on other firms I have experience with, but the number of employees that have the level of access to the game that these stunts would require I'm betting is not the majority of the employees in the company. More like the other way around: a very limited number of senior employees. So getting back to the point: if senior employees think it's ok to behave like this, just how much control does CCP's management have on it's other senior employees, and how will it be possible to screen out future problems once junior employees get promoted and their access increased? Or maybe this type of thing is just ok with CCP's top managment and they simply look the other way and pay us lip service and tell us what we want to hear to make us shut up and go away. Anyone want to make bets as to how long this post's lifespan is? If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Anila's Delight	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:56:00 - [37] I wade through corporate BS and doubletalk on a daily bases, so i would like to provide my interpretation of kierons post Paragraph 1: CCP acknowladge the claims of Dev misconduct and say that they are doing what they can with everything avaliable to them to look into the matter, Paragraph 2: Defines the issue in CCP's eyes. The first issue is people finding out who dev player accounts are. Previous history of action taken by CCP concerned with the player base finding out about dev player accounts. Paragraph 3: Deals with the second issue, that there were leaked details about an event arc. Basically, they cant do much about it as too much time has passed Paragraph 4: A bit about CCP policy with Dev player characters and action that has been taken so far Paragraph 5: Shows us what CCP have done to help prevent Dev misconduct in the game and says whilst the system isnt 100% (what system is) they are confident they can track down any misconduct that has occured Paragraph 6: A little about why the devs do have player accounts and a bit about having restrictions placed on them, which would hinder eve's development. Paragraph 7: Self explanitory my vies for the reading impaired.
Sephiraa	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:01:00 - [38] Originally by: Cringeley Now I'm just waiting to see if devs take in-game reprisals against those who brought the issue to public attention. They already have, previous to this announcement.
Kyoko Achura Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:04:00 - [39] Not fired over this and that alliance still keeps all the t2 bpo's and all the isk made off this.... This is a great game, but its run like crap, I am canceling all my accounts and taking my 90 bucks a month to a different game that is Fair to all its player base.
Roland 99 Minmatar Battlestars Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:07:00 - [40] Problems I have with this: 1. no names were admitted as to the characters involved. This should have been a public execution of the people who knowingly screwed honest eve player. 2. no assurance given that BOB will no longer have access to privilaged information 3. removing the seemingly limited number of characters alluded to will not keep the afortamentioned info out of BOB hands 4. No action alluded to or taken to remove all the T2 BPO's BOB received via GM intervention and/or hacks and exploits 5. such as no access to Tranquility or special flagging on a developerÆs player character -- would greatly hinder the development of EVE. THIS IS BULLCRAP AND WILL ALLOW THIS ACTIVITY TO CONTINUE 6. WHY THE HELL WERE THESE PEOPLE NOT FIRED??!! 7. like an american political candidate, what they said was designed to enrage the fewest number of people and will result in virtually zero constructive action 8. They got away with it and will continue to do so. No one will defeat BOB with this sickening amount of dev intervention(AKA unexplained lag, sploits, and all that rubbish). I am seriously considering removing my eve account due to the fact that no one has or will ever have a level playing field. _______

Farscape Hw Black Omega Security Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:07:00 - [41] Edited by: Farscape Hw on 07/02/2007 06:10:18 Originally by: Kyoko Achura Not fired over this and that alliance still keeps all the t2 bpo's and all the isk made off this.... This is a great game, but its run like crap, I am canceling all my accounts and taking my 90 bucks a month to a different game that is Fair to all its player base. Im gonna keep my account and kill ppl like i always have till this affects me then ill have an opinion edit* i have noticed a huge sway of the gms in the direction of certain ppls favor like i frappsed a navy raven kill of a guy named tigertex who is the alt of red lantern in DICE. he said in local he would get it back, the next day he was in another one. his corp mate told me a gm replaced it. i have friends in dice and im not dissing on them, just a fact that i lost a set of slave implants a couple weeks b4 that to the "in que to jump" bug and the gm basically told me to f*ck off. kinda got my goat so to speak. so ive had my first hand experience with this shyte my sig got nerfed by serethathetawhatever
Cupdeez Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:07:00 - [42] That is total BS.. Its about time to cancel my accounts. Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo Davip
Olea Farstar	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:11:00 - [43] Originally by: kieron CCP is very passionate about EVE Online and is committed to its continued growth. We hope that this statement will put this issue behind us once and for all and allow us to continue moving forward with the support of our community. I think that I and a great deal of people want to know about the items a confirmed CCP employee gave to normal players in the game. Either you deny the fact that this occured, or you admit that it occured. What has/ is going to be done about that? We all know now that the outed Dev passed these items to his former alliance. Do you think they should stay in game? If the hackers evidence about the employee was good enough to have him outed, isn't it also good enough to confirm that his alliance members knew what he was as well? In the very same incriminating logs there was a definite knowledge of his true identity by his corpmates. The items the dev gave away need to be removed from the game. Until this is done you do not have my support and you are not "providing the best possible game, gaming experience and development process possible."
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:12:00 - [44] Originally by: Roland 99 No one will defeat BOB with this sickening amount of dev intervention(AKA unexplained lag, sploits, and all that rubbish). blimey, i think i just shot hot coffee out of my nostrils. you're going to pay for this, KHAAAAAAA..err.., i mean, ROLAAAAAAAAND..
Milano II Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:20:00 - [45] I agree with the posts here so far, almost all of them, except for the one at the end of page 1 by the gentleman from GoonSwarm. I agree with HIS post. THE MOST. You've told us all that there was some stuff found in the path of the investigations. And you've removed a bunch of characters... well, no numbers given, so that could mean 2 characters for all we know. Yet, all you're doing is renaming or moving characters... this isn't a preventive measure at any means.. this is just a slap on the wrist kind of thing, stating to the offenders "Do it again.. but more quietly". The T2 BPOs? We all know one famous alliance has almost all of them, mostly dev-created/hax0red/handed-out or whatever- because afterall... they're not the carebears they try to come across as.... they dont do agent missions that often to get these things from the faulty lottery system that has been set up anyway. And..... yes.. prevention is what I'm whole-heartedly interested in.. Prevention. No one has said what'll be done to PREVENT this. All you've said here is that, or hinted to, is that you have a system in place to investigate these matters. INVESTIGATION-- happens AFTER the FACT. Not BEFORE. May have to cancel my accounts as well, unless we're given some better answer. I'd rather have NO answer, than THIS vague, vague, vague answer.
Anila's Delight	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:21:00 - [46] Originally by: Roland 99 Edited by: Roland 99 on 07/02/2007 06:07:56 Problems I have with this: 1. no names were admitted as to the characters involved. This should have been a public execution of the people who knowingly screwed honest eve players. 2. no assurance given that BOB will no longer have access to privilaged information 3. removing the seemingly limited number of characters alluded to will not keep the afortamentioned info out of BOB hands 4. No action alluded to or taken to remove all the T2 BPO's BOB received via GM intervention and/or hacks and exploits 5. such as no access to Tranquility or special flagging on a developerÆs player character -- would greatly hinder the development of EVE. THIS IS BULLCRAP AND WILL ALLOW THIS ACTIVITY TO CONTINUE 6. WHY THE HELL WERE THESE PEOPLE NOT FIRED??!! 7. like an american political candidate, what they said was designed to enrage the fewest number of people and will result in virtually zero constructive action 8. They got away with it and will continue to do so. No one will defeat BOB with this sickening amount of dev intervention(AKA unexplained lag, sploits, and all that rubbish). I am seriously considering removing my eve account due to the fact that no one has or will ever have a level playing field. Would you like your bosses to proclaim to the community that you were fired for a gross breach of trust? Also CCP policy is not to disscuss GM action (IIRC), why should they make an exception to this? Because the some in the comunity ask for it? Where does it end? Why should they say which characters were involved? That reads a breach of trust to me? Everyone has their reasons, you dont agree with CCP's reasons for not reavealing their actions, that is your problem. I agree with them not disclosing their actions, as to do so would breach all trust in CCP
Sinze	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:22:00 - [47] Originally by: Kyoko Achura Not fired over this and that alliance still keeps all the t2 bpo's and all the isk made off this.... This is a great game, but its run like crap, I am canceling all my accounts and taking my 90 bucks a month to a different game that is Fair to all its player base. Personally I still have a little bit of faith in CCP, and maybe they're just trying to minimize the damage to their company by not giving too many details. But CCP has to realize that the people who are playing this game right now and the people who are posting on these forums love this game, and they'd prefer to hear the truth than a bogus OP like this which explains nothing and leaves people not knowing what to think. We need to know what happened. Not many of us care if a dev posing as a 'civilian' player joins a corp or alliance and does things with them. We care about those devs abusing their powers to give that corp or alliance an unfair advantage over other corps or alliances. If CCP refuses to respond to these comments, I suppose I won't want to play this game much longer. Not responding to basic questions that everyone seems to have is pretty damning. Please don't use your sig to troll - Ductoris
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:23:00 - [48] Edited by: Ab Initio on 07/02/2007 06:21:43 Originally by: Milano II I agree with the posts here so far, almost all of them, except for the one at the end of page 1 by the gentleman from GoonSwarm. I agree with HIS post. THE MOST. You've told us all that there was some stuff found in the path of the investigations. And you've removed a bunch of characters... well, no numbers given, so that could mean 2 characters for all we know. Yet, all you're doing is renaming or moving characters... this isn't a preventive measure at any means.. this is just a slap on the wrist kind of thing, stating to the offenders "Do it again.. but more quietly". The T2 BPOs? We all know one famous alliance has almost all of them, mostly dev-created/hax0red/handed-out or whatever- because afterall... they're not the carebears they try to come across as.... they dont do agent missions that often to get these things from the faulty lottery system that has been set up anyway. And..... yes.. prevention is what I'm whole-heartedly interested in.. Prevention. No one has said what'll be done to PREVENT this. All you've said here is that, or hinted to, is that you have a system in place to investigate these matters. INVESTIGATION-- happens AFTER the FACT. Not BEFORE. May have to cancel my accounts as well, unless we're given some better answer. I'd rather have NO answer, than THIS vague, vague, vague answer. Stop threatening to cancel your accounts and do it already. The rest of the community would be better off without your input. EDIT: Quoted text dissapeared.
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:24:00 - [49] Edited by: La Tortura on 07/02/2007 06:20:55 I think CCP just dont understand all the seriousness of the problem. You think that you still can save your reputation, right? It is too late to save reputation after all the things happened recently. Public opinion is against you. Now the only thing you can do is regain reputation. And to get it back you should show to the community that you _actively_ trying to stop all cases of misconduct, and to reveal names and punish those who even remotely related to cases of such misconduct. You shouldn't ask for concerns to forvard to you. What you should do is to find yourself cases that werent known to community before your anouncement and present them to community. -- ignorance is bliss
Marketing Executive	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:24:00 - [50] I personally think what kieron posted pretty much the appropriate action from the CCP ends. Devs need to be in game to understand how player feels about the game and as the game progress, else there won't be much improvement. There's no such things in EVE like WoW where there's items (Ships,Mods,BPO) soul-bound to single character and gone when its deleted. I got to admit, if the CCP dev player were involved and got known (which in this case there is some under CCP investigation), BPO that generated by CCP without going through the T2 lottery system should be withdrawn and place it back to the lottery pools. Is the fair way to do it and place every-single-user content to the investigation result. But again, on the user end will need to understand this, dev-player accounts are no similar than any other player accounts, if the dev-player got the bpo through the T2 lottery system, there should not be any arguement to force CCP to withdraw the T2 bpo. Its rightfully belongs to the dev-player and its up to the dev-player to decide what to do with it. Take for example - Company ABC runs 2mil lottery everymonth, and there's 2mil tickets place on pools to be drawn at later date, the company then pass on bout 100 tix for their employee to see if they themself have the luck. One of them won, does that mean the company abc will say "u're staff of company abc... we can't give u 2mil"? Put that on everyone's shoes and think bout it. I personally would trust CCP in handling this issue properly, if the BPO were CCP generated and pass on to the any alliance via dev-player (and i believe dev-player were not only placed in BOB, but in other alliance as well but not-yet-known), the BPO should be confiscated and withdrawn. Otherwise, the OP pretty much delivered what's required to the communities

Roland 99 Minmatar Battlestars Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:29:00 - [51] Quote: Would you like your bosses to proclaim to the community that you were fired for a gross breach of trust? Also CCP policy is not to disscuss GM action (IIRC), why should they make an exception to this? Because the some in the comunity ask for it? Where does it end? Why should they say which characters were involved? That reads a breach of trust to me? Everyone has their reasons, you dont agree with CCP's reasons for not reavealing their actions, that is your problem. I agree with them not disclosing their actions, as to do so would breach all trust in CCP bosses do typically admit the who involved with a major scandal that threatens the very foundation of what your organization stands for as a deterrent for future activity. If they dont admit, it is usually pretty easy to tell who did it when they suddenly go missing. I am sorry if my feelings on the matter have offended you, but sometimes, a more public resolution is necessary when he very legal (read devs) foundation of a system has been heavily compromised by corruption _______
Anila's Delight	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:31:00 - [52] Originally by: La Tortura Edited by: La Tortura on 07/02/2007 06:20:55 I think CCP just dont understand all the seriousness of the problem. You think that you still can save your reputation, right? It is too late to save reputation after all the things happened recently. Public opinion is against you. Now the only thing you can do is regain reputation. And to get it back you should show to the community that you _actively_ trying to stop all cases of misconduct, and to reveal names and punish those who even remotely related to cases of such misconduct. You shouldn't ask for concerns to forvard to you. What you should do is to find yourself cases that werent known to community before your anouncement and present them to community. How large of a percentage of eve players actuallly know of these allegations? I would assume only those who browse the forums. Does the whole gaming community worldwide know of these allegations? I doubt it. I belive that CCP would know the seriousness of the allegations and belive that they have and are continuing to take the appropriate actions, these just may not be appropriate for publice anouncement in a 'name and shame' style, which can possibly lead to lawsuits.
Sinze	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:31:00 - [53] Originally by: Ab Initio Stop threatening to cancel your accounts and do it already. The rest of the community would be better off without your input. EDIT: Quoted text dissapeared. I'm willing to bet if LV or D2 or whoever you guys don't like at the moment had all this information posted about them, you would be in every thread threatening to quit EVE and throwing a tantrum. Don't troll in this thread please, this is a serious issue. Please don't use your sig to troll - Ductoris
Roland 99 Minmatar Battlestars Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:31:00 - [54] Edited by: Roland 99 on 07/02/2007 06:29:00 Originally by: Ab Initio Stop threatening to cancel your accounts and do it already. The rest of the community would be better off without your input. truth stings dont it? too bad this will never go away without cough more dev "favors" EDIT: punctuation _______
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:32:00 - [55] Well Kieron, that was a well-written Public Relations post. You demonstrate an impressive ability to sidestep the most important issues and avoid answering the hardest questions. Trial lawyers and politicians would be proud of you. The general EVE community, on the other hand, is another matter. The concern being talked about by the vast majority of players is not the identity of certain Dev or GM players, nor is it an in-game event that occured many months ago. The concern is that Band of Brothers (and possibly other large alliances) have received ill-gotten assistance from the Developers or GMs in the form of blueprints, ships, etc. That was the biggest concern, and you made absolutely no mention of it at all. Nobody really cares about the identity of CCP players in player alliances. Nobody really cares about an event that took place months ago. People care about rampant cheating by those whose job it is to STOP cheating. By conveniently ignoring this issue, you are only reinforcing the belief that CCP has something to hide. Were you to come out and say "Yes, some of our Devs and GMs were cheating. We cannot release their names for privacy reasons, but we can tell you that they've been fired, and all ill-gotten assets have been removed from the game.", then the community would be happy. It would suck that CCP employees have (yet again) been caught cheating, but at least we would know that you're doing something about it. Or you could have said "In regards to the cheating issue, we can't find any evidence of this whatsoever.". That wouldn't make people as happy, but at least you would acknowledge it. Instead, you whitewash it. You really screwed up, CCP. We want clear, straightforward answers, and we want them now. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Anderson Wes Cattus Ex Pera	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:33:00 - [56] Quote: But again, on the user end will need to understand this, dev-player accounts are no similar than any other player accounts, if the dev-player got the bpo through the T2 lottery system, there should not be any arguement to force CCP to withdraw the T2 bpo. Its rightfully belongs to the dev-player and its up to the dev-player to decide what to do with it. Except for one thing. Dev-player accounts are most likely at a severe discount and/or free. I mean, I'd raise heck if I worked for a game company and a 'perk' wasn't free access to the game I played.
manimani Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:34:00 - [57] Originally by: kieron I will leave this thread open for discussion. Please keep comments and replies on topic and constructive. Originally by: Ab Initio Stop threatening to cancel your accounts and do it already. The rest of the community would be better off without your input. Although he talked about canceling his account, Milano II offered some of his own views on the topic. While you just came in here offering nothing constructive, i hate to do this backseat moderating job, but please stay on topic, Ab Initio. CCP, needs to let us know more, what did the developer do within said alliance? What did he do that his character to be removed from the game? Why wasn't the damage to the game done by the developer reversed?
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Borgholio Nobody really cares about an event that took place months ago. People care about rampant cheating by those whose job it is to STOP cheating. By conveniently ignoring this issue, you are only reinforcing the belief that CCP has something to hide. Actually, that event involved an Aurora leak apparently and so it most definitely did involve cheating. Please don't use your sig to troll - Ductoris
Shin Ra BURN EDEN GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:37:00 - [59] In typical "New Labour" Style, this seems severely lacking in content. I do appreciate your attempt to look into this. I'm not aware if you are aware of the full effect of the allegations. There was multiple evidence by those in question about certain other people breaching various parts of the EULA, including buying/selling character for $$$. Have any of these been investigated and if so what was their results?
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:38:00 - [60] Originally by: Anonymous Coward Originally by: Borgholio Nobody really cares about an event that took place months ago. People care about rampant cheating by those whose job it is to STOP cheating. By conveniently ignoring this issue, you are only reinforcing the belief that CCP has something to hide. Actually, that event involved an Aurora leak apparently and so it most definitely did involve cheating. True, but that was only one event. If the other allegations are true, then CCP gave away ill-gotten items and assets repeatedly over a long period of time. Personally, I feel that is far more serious. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!



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