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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
BobGhengisKhan
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:24:00 -
[571]
Originally by: XirtamVotf Kcel what are you on about Sir Molle posted his name and where he worked,where he lived and was going to get him fired from his real life job.
These were numerous postings by Sir molle, so it isnt what you say, evidently you didnt read all of them.
To CCP and fact based, this has been going on for over a year, accusations about devs in BOB. BOB totally denied that this was true, now later the IPs that BOB denied have removed those devs from the game that the player base KNEW were in BOB, but CCP didnt investigate at the onset of the allegations until Knug exposed it.
Everyone has stated proof or stfu stance, but how does the community prove its feelings of "if it walks like a duck , it is a duck".
So many instances can be directed towards the short comings , and I mean fact based instances, that it smacks of either ignorance, or they just dont care by CCP employees.
I truly love this game,it has been the most enjoyment I have ever had in a MMO. So I dont think the community as a whole is on a witch hunt, I know Im not. I just want to play the game with an even playing field, thats all.. anyone wants.
This is not the case .. the devs involved,and the players in BOB KNEW well before this came out that they were Devs, and CCP did nothing way back when.
Ask yourself a few questions before you accuse me of being a "digger" or a BOB hater.
How did Sir Molle obtain that critical information in the first place? Why did a Dev in BOB and Dianabolic have open messages on their forums looking for the IP?
You can call this a witch hunt all you want, but it is NOT a witch hunt.
Either Sir Molle hacked this info, or the dev gave it to him.
More Proof was in the messages between Diana and Ishos and Lord Stone RKK part 4 that is hard evidence listing all the Ips that the players knew that they had multiple devs in their allaince
The community cant be spoon fed, they must read for themselves in Knugs posting of the BOB forum and see what there, and transpiring. I dont think ANYTHING was altered or MADE up, for what end did Knug do this? Maybe because other players in this game have taken advantage of the game and he was sick of it?
NO witch hunt gentlemen
This IS a witch hunt, xirt. And you have just become one of the sheep.
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Logan Feynman
Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:25:00 -
[572]
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
Originally by: Logan Feynman Edited by: Logan Feynman on 07/02/2007 17:10:08
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh To be completely frank with you, I don't find it odd at all. That might be because I've only ever existed in one corp, which works on a communist model. Our members regularly kill officer spawns and hand over the modules for sale for corp benefit. In the last week we have been running at 100% corp tax and in the history of Evolution I would estimate that up to 50% of our BPOs have come from our members winning them in the lottery and presenting them to the corp. That's how we work.
So to reiterate, no I don't find it odd. Not everyone is motivated by personal gain in this game.
1. That sort of asset distribution is the exception, not the rule.
2. Whether or not the assets became personally-owned after the transfer, the assets were still valuable. If the assets were improperly acquired, the alliance in question would have received substantial improper advantage.
3. It has been alleged that there were payments made to alts of the dev in question by the alliance in question for use of the BPOs that were turned over. If these allegations are true, the dev in question continued to profit from the relationship with the alliance in question even after the relationship was formally dissolved.
As to 1) RKK is a communist corp. As to 2) and 3) ... that's a lot of ifs.
1. RKK may be a communist corp, but it has been alleged that payments were made to an alt of the dev in question anyway.
As for 2 and 3, you're right, that is a lot of "if"s. However, if you work for the US Mint and the police finds $10,000 in marked bills in your house, the police should start making allegations and asking questions that involve "if", shouldn't they?
The fact of the matter is that a dev with the power to create and destroy in-game assets was forced to leave an in-game alliance and allegedly transferred in-game assets to corp members before he left, assets which he allegedly continued to profit from after his separation with the corp.
Explain to me why exactly I should give the dev in question the benefit of the doubt.
He left BPOs. There was a finite and precise number of BPOs of each type given. Each BPO in game is accounted for. Especially those owned by dev characters. We can be pretty sure they were not "a bunch of marked bills", so the argument should just stop there. .
"Life is no way to treat an animal." ~Tombstone of Kilgore Trout |
Fortior
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:25:00 -
[573]
Nope, not enough. OP said that actions have been taken for two different things - none of which are actually the most burning issue. I've almost always defended CCP, but I can't help but feel that the trust has been tarnished. The OP didn't really do anything to remedy this.
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Lars Erlkonig
Caldari Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:26:00 -
[574]
sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Juvenal, Satire IV lines 347-8
As long as the temptation and ability to cheat exists, it will be taken--by devs, players, and people in general. It is the job of any well run corporation to formulate a system by which both the temptations and ability are tempered to render both a non-issue. So far I have yet to see an action by which CCP has ameliorated the problems and issues of the player base regarding the initial and resulting complaints.
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Logan Feynman
Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:28:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Lars Erlkonig So far I have yet to see an action by which CCP has ameliorated the problems and issues of the player base regarding the initial and resulting complaints.
And if you don't? .
"Life is no way to treat an animal." ~Tombstone of Kilgore Trout |
Fred0
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:28:00 -
[576]
Originally by: BobGhengisKhan This IS a witch hunt, xirt. And you have just become one of the sheep.
With the witches apparently hunting back or atleast stating they are and are gonna continue it :)
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Bizarre
TAOSP
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:29:00 -
[577]
All you folks want BoB to prove they are not guilty. Yet, you all base yourself on a bunch of forumposts by Kugutsumen which you consider irrefuted proof.
GG community, you are looking like a bunch of asshats. *snip* Signature does not relate your in-game persona - Kreul Intentions |
Tanis Bastar
Caldari Interstitial Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:30:00 -
[578]
Originally by: Torshin While most people in this thread believe that the response by Kieron isn't enough, they also believe that the information posted on a 3rd party site is true. So taking these two things into account, if Kieron came back later today and said that they have throughly investigated claims of T2 BPOs that were attained ILLEGALLY...and found no evidence of foul play would you stop flaming bob?
Does the word of Mr. K mean more to you then the word of CCP just because of your hate for BOB?
Well that is exactly the point--CCP has not said anything about the BPOs, or whether Devs cheated.
I don't hate BoB--in fact don't care about it at all--but CCP's post has not addressed any of the key issues. I think their approach is incredibly short-sighted and has only served to stoke suspicions which might well be completely unfounded...but I guess we'll never know...
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WKandinsky
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:30:00 -
[579]
I am troubled that any CCP employee is participating in any corp or major alliance in the game. If they feel the desire to play the game they should do so in a seperate alliance and keep their interactions to a minimum with the general players.
Removing the players has not fixed the situation. If BPO/BPC/Ships, etc., have been given they should also be removed from the corp/alliance they were given to. If the game is not allowed to evolve without manipulation, it is simply Mario Brothers with exploits to look for.
My opinions only and not those of the corp.
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Fred0
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:31:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Bizarre GG community, you are looking like a bunch of asshats.
Nobody looks like a bunch of roses in this ordeal.
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Gibmundur
Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:33:00 -
[581]
If you think everyone and his mother @ ccp is in bob you should just ctrl q
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Amiable Quinn
Minmatar Lasleinur Production
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:33:00 -
[582]
Edited by: Amiable Quinn on 07/02/2007 17:30:04
Originally by: Logan Feynman
He left BPOs. There was a finite and precise number of BPOs of each type given. Each BPO in game is accounted for. Especially those owned by dev characters. We can be pretty sure they were not "a bunch of marked bills", so the argument should just stop there.
Note highlighted text.
How do you know this Logan? CCP has not said word one about how they monitor Dev accounts (even after we have asked them to repeatedly).
Do you have access to some information you are not sharing?
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Omega Bloodstone
Battlestars Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:35:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Omega Bloodstone on 07/02/2007 17:32:48 20 freaking pages, read about 10. Has CCP commented on the alledged BPO's in this thread yet? If not, then clearly the player base knows the answer Silence is a golden saint when trying to learn some things and silence speaks louder then one might imagine.
Please CCP, if you have not commented yet, please advise to the playerbase the truth, fix the issue, and get back to making the game fun and EQUAL to all.
We appriciate your efforts, but at least update us on anything you might have learned thus far in regards to the BPO's.
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Lars Erlkonig
Caldari Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:37:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Logan Feynman
Originally by: Lars Erlkonig So far I have yet to see an action by which CCP has ameliorated the problems and issues of the player base regarding the initial and resulting complaints.
And if you don't?
How long must issues like this go on. I want to recommend EVE to my friends, because it is an enjoyable game, but if the playing field isn't going to be level, why should I. Instead it becomes: "There's a great game I play and that I'd like to show you, but right now it's broken because the company that runs it has no care if their employees or players cheat. So make sure to give them your credit card info and B-day when you sign up."
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Maze La'Zie
Caldari Technology La'Zie
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:37:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Edited by: Omega Bloodstone on 07/02/2007 17:32:48 20 freaking pages, read about 10. Has CCP commented on the alledged BPO's in this thread yet? If not, then clearly the player base knows the answer Silence is a golden saint when trying to learn some things and silence speaks louder then one might imagine.
Please CCP, if you have not commented yet, please advise to the playerbase the truth, fix the issue, and get back to making the game fun and EQUAL to all.
We appriciate your efforts, but at least update us on anything you might have learned thus far in regards to the BPO's.
Nope. No official comments other than the OP. ___________________ Chief Scientific Officer Technology La'Zie Author of The End |
Bizarre
TAOSP
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:39:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Fred0
Originally by: Bizarre GG community, you are looking like a bunch of asshats.
Nobody looks like a bunch of roses in this ordeal.
The hypocracy is strong though. One side is basing itself on a series of forumposts from a certain forum, while the other is basing itself on the word of its members.
I can't believe everyone is so interested in getting to the bottom of this, when you're coming up with such doubtful "proof". In my opinion, we need to let it rest and carry on playing this game. *snip* Signature does not relate your in-game persona - Kreul Intentions |
Jacob Majestic
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:39:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Logan Feynman He left BPOs. There was a finite and precise number of BPOs of each type given. Each BPO in game is accounted for. Especially those owned by dev characters. We can be pretty sure they were not "a bunch of marked bills", so the argument should just stop there.
How do you know that every BPO in the game is accounted for? How can you trust who is doing the accounting? When I make assumptions and allegations, I clearly state that I am doing so. You are assuming a lot of things to be true that, if the allegations are correct, we can no longer assume.
You are asking me to give someone who has the power to spawn arbitrary in-game items and perhaps even has SQL UPDATE access rights to the TQ database the benefit of the doubt in a case where he is alleged of improperly transferring assets.
To use my $10,000 in marked bills analogy one last time, if you were a defense lawyer and made that same argument to a judge as to why the case should be thrown out, you'd get laughed out of court.
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Wizzkidy
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:40:00 -
[588]
tbh CCP are probably just trying to figure out what to say to
1. Not stir up anymore trouble 2. To again not say anything that has any value to the discussion in question
because lets face it they never do come along and say "right here are the facts and what you want to hear" do they (even if that be no one cheated)
they just never do!
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XirtamVotf
Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:46:00 -
[589]
What have I aske BObghengis that hasnt been absolutely a legitimate question ?
I remember you personnaly complaing of Evolution back in day before they were BOB, using those mods to crash you in battle and mining for your ship afterwards.
Do you also forget those scenarios? as well as the rest of the players that complained?
please
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FGxHalsey
Freedom Guard Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:46:00 -
[590]
Quote: avoid the appearance of impropriety
I think there is wisdom in this. Whether or not anything has actually occured, CCP needs to take a position that: 1. Ensures justice for misconduct is handed out. 2. Shows their neutrality to player factions is maintained. 3. Shows that the integrity of the game is not complomised.
We have a number of questions that do need to be addressed in order for CCP to avoid the appearance of impropriety. a) The tech 2 BPO issue needs to be addressed. The mere fact that a developer player character handed a number of tech 2 BPO's to their alliance when most people have alot of difficulty aquiring 1 of those items is a problem. It does not matter whether these BPO's were leagally or illegally obtained because it sure looks bad. b) The ebay character buying issue needs to be addressed. CCP has maintained a standard that ebayed accounts will be banned. If the issue is not addressed, it will encourage further sold account issues and will give the appearance that CCP shows favoritism. c) The role of developer player characters in game politics needs to be addressed. I think anyone with a reasonable view sees the need for developers to play their own game. The problem comes in when developers are allowed to obtain high ranking positions in the most influential groups in the game. A developer was alleged to not only be in BoB, one of the largest and most influental alliances in the game, but they were given leadership positions in that alliance and command over its capital fleet. While this may or may not have been wrong, it sure looks like a conflict of interest when said developers/GM's need to resolve in-game issues regarding the in-game enemies of BoB. Again, this may not be wrong, but it appears that way.
I don't know specifically how to resore CCP's image of neutrality but here is what I recommend to start. 1. Eliminate the dev characters (done, good first step) 2. Ban the ebayed accounts. 3. Do something to redistribute/reseed those tech 2 BPO's. (Note this may not be fair to BoB and the tech 2 bpo's may have been given out fairly but CCP's reputation is more important for the health of the game and the confidance of their customers.) 4. Institute a policy regarding devs giving out high-end items and being involved in the leadership of alliances/coprs. Publically announce any policies.
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Widebrant
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:49:00 -
[591]
If t20 thought that BOB was worth giving ten T2 BPOs, what other gifts did he bring them -- and what will he give them in the future?
CCP employees are not meant to take sides in the game, it opens up a whole crate of cans of worms. A director-level position in a major alliance is completely incompatible with being a creator of a world that is supposed to be a sandbox open for the players to shape.
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Wizzkidy
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:51:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Widebrant If t20 thought that BOB was worth giving ten T2 BPOs, what other gifts did he bring them -- and what will he give them in the future?
CCP employees are not meant to take sides in the game, it opens up a whole crate of cans of worms. A director-level position in a major alliance is completely incompatible with being a creator of a world that is supposed to be a sandbox open for the players to shape.
I can only agree with this although we don't know that T20 spawned these items, he could of got 10 BPO's through the lottery or bought them after all
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Ituralde
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:54:00 -
[593]
What a shame that a giant outcry from all the mediocrity in EVE can ruin a guy's gaming experience.
Absolutely disgusting.
A normal EVE character. That's all these dev players were. Normal characters with the powers of normal characters.
To do anything else, they would have to use their dev account, and any evidence of misconduct would be painfully obvious.
But since a bunch of people don't know how to fight and win a war, and won't blame their defeats on the superiority of the enemy or their own shortcoming, A certain number of EVE players - even if they are devs - got the shaft.
Proud of yourselves, Gents?
So tell me this, when you lose your next war, what are you going to blame it on now that the GM/DEV divine intervetion card has already been used up?
Disgusting... _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
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BobGhengisKhan
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:57:00 -
[594]
Originally by: XirtamVotf What have I aske BObghengis that hasnt been absolutely a legitimate question ?
I remember you personnaly complaing of Evolution back in day before they were BOB, using those mods to crash you in battle and mining for your ship afterwards.
Do you also forget those scenarios? as well as the rest of the players that complained?
please
That's what we call making up bull **** so we don't have to admit our own short comings. It's always been easier for you to blame someone/something other than yourself for failure.
And you're doing it again right now.
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Sinze
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:58:00 -
[595]
Originally by: Ituralde What a shame that a giant outcry from all the mediocrity in EVE can ruin a guy's gaming experience.
Absolutely disgusting.
A normal EVE character. That's all these dev players were. Normal characters with the powers of normal characters.
To do anything else, they would have to use their dev account, and any evidence of misconduct would be painfully obvious.
But since a bunch of people don't know how to fight and win a war, and won't blame their defeats on the superiority of the enemy or their own shortcoming, A certain number of EVE players - even if they are devs - got the shaft.
Proud of yourselves, Gents?
So tell me this, when you lose your next war, what are you going to blame it on now that the GM/DEV divine intervetion card has already been used up?
Disgusting...
Did you even read the first page of this thread. We're not angry about the devs being in BoB. We're angry about the T2 BPOs that were given to BoB under questionable circumstances. This was never about "ruining someones life" or whatever you guys keep misinterpreting it as. It was about finding out whether or not those T2 BPOs were legitimate, or if Band Of Brothers got free handouts from a developer of the game. |
Ituralde
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:59:00 -
[596]
Edited by: Ituralde on 07/02/2007 17:57:24
Originally by: FGxHalsey
3. Do something to redistribute/reseed those tech 2 BPO's. (Note this may not be fair to BoB and the tech 2 bpo's may have been given out fairly but CCP's reputation is more important for the health of the game and the confidance of their customers.)
Yes, since Devs spoon-fed t2 BPOs only to their favorites, there was no luck or hard work to make ISK for the purchases...
How stupid do you people get?
Learn to win a war ingame, and quit your bloody whining on the forums because you suck. All you are really asking is "rebalance so I have chance of an ISK printer/win button and my enemies don't".
Thankfully I don't think anyone in CCP is stupid enough to listen to whining like this.
and Re: the 'did you read' comment, I might mention that there are multiple other t2 producers outside of BOB with similar sized portfolios that got them perfectly legitimately - why is it that becuase its suddenly Bob that has a t2 bpo that it must be spawned by a dev?
Seriously, grow up. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
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Milkminer
InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:59:00 -
[597]
Edited by: Milkminer on 07/02/2007 17:56:19 I beleive, that from a trust point of view as well as a need to try put as much of a lid on this as possible there needs to be some alittle more information released. A better breakdown would be nice with points etc thats easy to read/understand (we are a multi-cultural community after all).
I hope this isnt the last we hear of this though I must say. We need to know that our work invested in this "game" isnt going to waste.
Offer up a lamb for good sport
Originally by: John Moscroft Goons are a renewable resource. There are no recruitment problems.
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Zzleeper
Amarr levisomnus spectatrix
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Posted - 2007.02.07 18:00:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Ituralde What a shame that a giant outcry from all the mediocrity in EVE can ruin a guy's gaming experience.
Absolutely disgusting.
A normal EVE character. That's all these dev players were. Normal characters with the powers of normal characters.
To do anything else, they would have to use their dev account, and any evidence of misconduct would be painfully obvious.
But since a bunch of people don't know how to fight and win a war, and won't blame their defeats on the superiority of the enemy or their own shortcoming, A certain number of EVE players - even if they are devs - got the shaft.
Proud of yourselves, Gents?
So tell me this, when you lose your next war, what are you going to blame it on now that the GM/DEV divine intervetion card has already been used up?
Disgusting...
I can see someone has been lining your wallet!
Cheaters never prosper! |
Amiable Quinn
Minmatar Lasleinur Production
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Posted - 2007.02.07 18:02:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Ituralde
How stupid do you people get?
Learn to win a war ingame, and quit your bloody whining on the forums because you suck.
I know you may find it hard to believe but this debate has nothing to do with folks "sucking." It has everything to do with our confidence in the game. Your bizarre, angry rants just highlight this point, especially because Star Fraction is one of the Alliances Devs have admitted to being members of.
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Ituralde
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.07 18:03:00 -
[600]
Originally by: Zzleeper
Originally by: Ituralde What a shame that a giant outcry from all the mediocrity in EVE can ruin a guy's gaming experience.
Absolutely disgusting.
A normal EVE character. That's all these dev players were. Normal characters with the powers of normal characters.
To do anything else, they would have to use their dev account, and any evidence of misconduct would be painfully obvious.
But since a bunch of people don't know how to fight and win a war, and won't blame their defeats on the superiority of the enemy or their own shortcoming, A certain number of EVE players - even if they are devs - got the shaft.
Proud of yourselves, Gents?
So tell me this, when you lose your next war, what are you going to blame it on now that the GM/DEV divine intervetion card has already been used up?
Disgusting...
I can see someone has been lining your wallet!
Yes, of course, I have my pet GMs transport me across EVE so I can use my Hax Capital Miner beam IIs and strip belts of Arkonor in Jove space...
Which is of course why my wallet sits at an oh-so-grand 35 mil _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
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