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Concerning the Recent Allegations of Developer Misconduct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Anila's Delight	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Roland 99 Quote: Would you like your bosses to proclaim to the community that you were fired for a gross breach of trust? Also CCP policy is not to disscuss GM action (IIRC), why should they make an exception to this? Because the some in the comunity ask for it? Where does it end? Why should they say which characters were involved? That reads a breach of trust to me? Everyone has their reasons, you dont agree with CCP's reasons for not reavealing their actions, that is your problem. I agree with them not disclosing their actions, as to do so would breach all trust in CCP bosses do typically admit the who involved with a major scandal that threatens the very foundation of what your organization stands for as a deterrent for future activity. If they dont admit, it is usually pretty easy to tell who did it when they suddenly go missing. I am sorry if my feelings on the matter have offended you, but sometimes, a more public resolution is necessary when he very legal (read devs) foundation of a system has been heavily compromised by corruption I agree that bosses do generally admit who was involved with a scandle, but this isn't a general situation. As CCP do not disscuss GM action normally, i would expect them to to keep quiet what they have done as it builds trust in the system that they have in place, no matter what the cercumstances, ccp stand by their privacy policy. Most large companies enforces policy quite harshley and no one is spared, as CCP have a non-discussion policy they are not doing anything that i wouldnt expect from another company. No offence taken here, i am just trying to have a discussion on this topic (something that is rare on these boards) before the thread is locked from flaming and trolling. No offence intended to anyone here.
MessiahOfLight Gallente Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:43:00 - [62] hm... are there People here, who actually take the possibility into consideration, that maybe ... just MAYBE there were no T2 BPOs given out to BOB by any DEV GM or whatever? Dunno ... maybe its just easier to think that whatever someone random posts on EVE-O against bob must be true cause you dont like bob either... Where did Kieron say, that whatever was found even has something to do with BOB or any other Alliance for that matter? thats all i gotta say about this --MOL
Platinum Sapphire	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Marketing Executive Take for example - Company ABC runs 2mil lottery everymonth, and there's 2mil tickets place on pools to be drawn at later date, the company then pass on bout 100 tix for their employee to see if they themself have the luck. One of them won, does that mean the company abc will say "u're staff of company abc... we can't give u 2mil"? Put that on everyone's shoes and think bout it. Actually, if you read the fineprint in the rules about any Lottery, or any other kind of promotional prize give-away, you will see that there is always a note stating that "Employees and their direct families" of the company are barred from entering the competition/lottery. Thus, by your own example, the Dev concerned should not even have to face tghe choice of keeping or giving away the prize.. He should not have been allowed to enter in the first instance. Also, interesting to note the Band of Developers member's comment. Just another example of the contempt they feel at the rest of us, while they reap the benefits of their "hand-in-glove" relationship with senior CCP staff.
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:47:00 - [64] Originally by: MessiahOfLight hm... are there People here, who actually take the possibility into consideration, that maybe ... just MAYBE there were no T2 BPOs given out to BOB by any DEV GM or whatever? There were many more issues than just T2 BPOs here, however they seem to all be equally brushed aside by CCP with such a non-answer. Please don't use your sig to troll - Ductoris
OmegaClone	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:47:00 - [65] So why should I even feel ok about developers playing the game at all? Escpecially when the allience they were in seems to hold an unusually high percentage of tech II bpos. They also seem to magically get out of situations using exploits that developers would have intimate knowledge of. I find it hard to be satisified with this hand slap punishment when I have spent 3 years running missions for five Gallente Starship R&D agents spending well over a billion pleasing them and have gotten doggie doo from them. I expected this to be more than an elaborate illusion ment to keep my busy. If you guys are running a business then you should be worried about making your customers happy and keeping them paying their monthly subscriptions not allowing your employees make us look like fools, building their own egos and wallets in the process. It must be nice to play god. What would your Viking ancestors say? Shame Shame on all of you.
Merciless1 Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:47:00 - [66] Originally by: Anila's Delight Originally by: Roland 99 Quote: Would you like your bosses to proclaim to the community that you were fired for a gross breach of trust? Also CCP policy is not to disscuss GM action (IIRC), why should they make an exception to this? Because the some in the comunity ask for it? Where does it end? Why should they say which characters were involved? That reads a breach of trust to me? Everyone has their reasons, you dont agree with CCP's reasons for not reavealing their actions, that is your problem. I agree with them not disclosing their actions, as to do so would breach all trust in CCP bosses do typically admit the who involved with a major scandal that threatens the very foundation of what your organization stands for as a deterrent for future activity. If they dont admit, it is usually pretty easy to tell who did it when they suddenly go missing. I am sorry if my feelings on the matter have offended you, but sometimes, a more public resolution is necessary when he very legal (read devs) foundation of a system has been heavily compromised by corruption I agree that bosses do generally admit who was involved with a scandle, but this isn't a general situation. As CCP do not disscuss GM action normally, i would expect them to to keep quiet what they have done as it builds trust in the system that they have in place, no matter what the cercumstances, ccp stand by their privacy policy. Most large companies enforces policy quite harshley and no one is spared, as CCP have a non-discussion policy they are not doing anything that i wouldnt expect from another company. No offence taken here, i am just trying to have a discussion on this topic (something that is rare on these boards) before the thread is locked from flaming and trolling. No offence intended to anyone here. Originally by: Sausage Commandos A bobbeh titan at the station!, i curse at myself for being in a shuttle, so i head to station, change to ibis, return to find the scumbag had ran...
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:48:00 - [67] Originally by: manimani Originally by: kieron I will leave this thread open for discussion. Please keep comments and replies on topic and constructive. Originally by: Ab Initio Stop threatening to cancel your accounts and do it already. The rest of the community would be better off without your input. Although he talked about canceling his account, Milano II offered some of his own views on the topic. While you just came in here offering nothing constructive, i hate to do this backseat moderating job, but please stay on topic, Ab Initio. CCP, needs to let us know more, what did the developer do within said alliance? What did he do that his character to be removed from the game? Why wasn't the damage to the game done by the developer reversed? I've written pages on the topic, but common sense get thrown out the door when it comes to a good witch hunt. All that has been accomplished here, is the destruction of legitimate accounts, because they were publicly outed as working for CCP. Congratulations.
Steve Nash	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:48:00 - [68] Originally by: MessiahOfLight hm... are there People here, who actually take the possibility into consideration, that maybe ... just MAYBE there were no T2 BPOs given out to BOB by any DEV GM or whatever? Dunno ... maybe its just easier to think that whatever someone random posts on EVE-O against bob must be true cause you dont like bob either... Where did Kieron say, that whatever was found even has something to do with BOB or any other Alliance for that matter? thats all i gotta say about this --MOL If there were no Bpo's given out then that should be said in the statement. "We investigated and found nothing." As it stands the statement given us is void of any informative substance and ammounts to lip service. So of course the community will rightfully think that it is likely that the worst is true.
Merciless1 Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:52:00 - [69] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 07/02/2007 06:42:35 Originally by: MessiahOfLight hm... are there People here, who actually take the possibility into consideration, that maybe ... just MAYBE there were no T2 BPOs given out to BOB by any DEV GM or whatever? Perhaps he should've mentioned that in his post. Originally by: MessiahOfLight Where did Kieron say, that whatever was found even has something to do with BOB or any other Alliance for that matter? That's just it. He didn't really say a whole lot of anything. Thats the exact problem, the majority of the community is conviced that Dev's where helping BoB in some way. Now this post was made confirming that somthing did happen but be so vauge that it only served to make the speculation and rumors even worse. CCP needs to be clear about whats going on or it will just lead to more rampant speculation and distrust. To CCP all I ask is to tell everybody whats going on so it can be put to rest. Originally by: Sausage Commandos A bobbeh titan at the station!, i curse at myself for being in a shuttle, so i head to station, change to ibis, return to find the scumbag had ran...
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:53:00 - [70] "We are sorry we got caught. You can trust us now." I would say that my faith in CCP had been badly damaged by this incident except for the fact that in the 9 months I have been playing there has been: The GM who created the uber scorpion and was apparently on his way somewhere. When killed by the gate camp the GMs' initial reaction was to ban those who killed the corrupt GM. It took considerable community outrage to get the initial injustice reversed and the real perpetrator removed. The whole story arch that was abandon due to people leaking information to players. The bugged 8/10 complex where even once CCP declared it an exploit people kept abusing it until a patch fixed it. To the communities knowledge no one was banned nor was any of the billions of isk wrought by this exploit removed from the game. And now we have Devs managing capital fleets and training for a major alliance, and handing over 8-10 T2 BPOs after being petitioned as a parting gift. So my faith was pretty trashed already. So can we trust CCP? If someone in alliance A suffers lag or the wreck/aggro bug and is podded by alliance B, what happens if the first person petitions and the GM involved plays for alliance B? If a Developer joins an alliance will their knowledge of bugs and other issues mean that they give that alliance an advantage? What would also help would be if CCP could actually outline what if any guidelines their employees must conform to within the game - all we know is that their ID must not be known. This isn't a BoB thing: if BoB didn't exist this would problem would just wear another alliance's name. It appears to be a corporate cultural issue. In the past I was used to seeing posts on other Forums about EvE receive the old "full of griefers" or "takes forever, is like a second job" replies. Now I am seeing "Don't bother unless you are a friend of the Devs - they cheat." What they don't know can't hurt us - CCP.

Roland 99 Minmatar Battlestars Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:53:00 - [71] Quote: All that has been accomplished here, is the destruction of legitimate accounts, because they were publicly outed as working for CCP. Congratulations. Quite the inflamatory admission there. Not assuming anything, or anything but wow. It was admitted right here that it, in fact, was BOB accounts removed due to this little situation. /emote Grabs popcorn and a beer _______
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:56:00 - [72] Originally by: Roland 99 Quote: All that has been accomplished here, is the destruction of legitimate accounts, because they were publicly outed as working for CCP. Congratulations. Quite the inflamatory admission there. Not assuming anything, or anything but wow. It was admitted right here that it, in fact, was BOB accounts removed due to this little situation. /emote Grabs popcorn and a beer Or, you could actually read the OP. Originally by: kieron Since these play characters are known to belong to CCP employees, they will be removed from the game. Many of them have been around since the creation of EVE and it is most unfortunate that these developers are now forced to end their relationships with their in-game friends, but that is our policy when the anonymity of staff members has been compromised.
Roland 99 Minmatar Battlestars Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:58:00 - [73] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Roland 99 Quote: All that has been accomplished here, is the destruction of legitimate accounts, because they were publicly outed as working for CCP. Congratulations. Quite the inflamatory admission there. Not assuming anything, or anything but wow. It was admitted right here that it, in fact, was BOB accounts removed due to this little situation. /emote Grabs popcorn and a beer Or, you could actually read the OP. Originally by: kieron Since these play characters are known to belong to CCP employees, they will be removed from the game. Many of them have been around since the creation of EVE and it is most unfortunate that these developers are now forced to end their relationships with their in-game friends, but that is our policy when the anonymity of staff members has been compromised. get mollee in here. Your grasp of propanagda is quite lacking. -out _______
Anila's Delight	Posted - 2007.02.07 06:59:00 - [74] Quote: Areas of investigation include, but are not limited to: messaging history, financial and transactional history, combat and corporation logs, item and cash transfers and IP logs. That is ALOT of data to go though for those that the allegations were raised against. Think of how many market transactions you make in a day, combat logs you make, items and cash transfered. I can't see anywhere in keirons post that he said that they have concluded the investigation.
Steve Nash	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:02:00 - [75] Edited by: Steve Nash on 07/02/2007 06:59:41 Originally by: Anila's Delight Quote: Areas of investigation include, but are not limited to: messaging history, financial and transactional history, combat and corporation logs, item and cash transfers and IP logs. That is ALOT of data to go though for those that the allegations were raised against. Think of how many market transactions you make in a day, combat logs you make, items and cash transfered. I can't see anywhere in keirons post that he said that they have concluded the investigation. "I apologize for the length of time the investigation has taken. A statement has been made, you may view it by clicking..." That to me implies that "the investigation is over here is a link to the conclusion."
Evelgrivion Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:03:00 - [76] I'm sure you're trying your hardest to alleviate the community's concerns over the matter Kieron, but I, and I assume most everyone else who has read this thread, has been left confused over what exactly has been determined from this investigation. Obviously you have to be careful about what information you decide what to release to make sure you don't violate your own policies or release information to the public that was deemed private. However, I think the concerns of the community can be answered with three simple yes or no questions: 1. Is the investigation over? 2. If so, has it been determined whether or not the alleged parties have acted inappropriately? 3. If so, have the alleged parties been punished for their inappropriate actions? If CCP could please answer these questions accordingly, I'm certain that a great many people will be satisfied with the results of this. As things stand, I don't think anyone in the public is pleased with the current state of affairs. ---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|--- This isn't the signature you're looking for.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:04:00 - [77] Originally by: Roland 99 get mollee in here. Your grasp of propanagda is quite lacking. -out You aren't dealing with someone who is trying to put forward "propaganda". You are dealing with someone who is honestly disgusted by the reaction of a large part of the community. * This IS a subject that needs discussing. * This post from CCP IS useless. My problem is with the people that are using a situation which should be dealt with appropriately, as a launching platform for your in game issues. I have no problem with those that put forward their opinions, without all the random haxsploiting BS. Your posts are pathetic. You're trying to score forum whoring points, while it is apparent from the OP, that veterans are losing there accounts due only to being outed by a hacker.
Merciless1 Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:08:00 - [78] Originally by: Steve Nash Edited by: Steve Nash on 07/02/2007 06:59:41 Originally by: Anila's Delight Quote: Areas of investigation include, but are not limited to: messaging history, financial and transactional history, combat and corporation logs, item and cash transfers and IP logs. That is ALOT of data to go though for those that the allegations were raised against. Think of how many market transactions you make in a day, combat logs you make, items and cash transfered. I can't see anywhere in keirons post that he said that they have concluded the investigation. "I apologize for the length of time the investigation has taken. A statement has been made, you may view it by clicking..." That to me implies that "the investigation is over here is a link to the conclusion." Or this: Originally by: kieron We hope that this statement will put this issue behind us once and for all and allow us to continue moving forward with the support of our community. To me that says that this is all we're going to get. Originally by: Sausage Commandos A bobbeh titan at the station!, i curse at myself for being in a shuttle, so i head to station, change to ibis, return to find the scumbag had ran...
Anila's Delight	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:08:00 - [79] Originally by: Evelgrivion 1. Is the investigation over? 2. If so, has it been determined whether or not the alleged parties have acted inappropriately? 3. If so, have the alleged parties been punished for their inappropriate actions? He does have a point, you dont have to name anyone or specify the actions taken. Just say something like: Yes the investigation has concluded and appropriate action has been taken against those we have found to be acting inappropriately. Nothing to specific there.
Lasraik Minmatar digital-Underground	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:09:00 - [80] I've always been a fan of EVE and praised CCP. But wow, this is really dissapointing if this is indeed the conclusion of the investigation. Not how you want to treat paying customers when there are so many questions still to be answered. Don't side step the issue and just come clean, tell your customers what happened, what was found and what you did to fix it.

Steve Nash	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:09:00 - [81] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Roland 99 get mollee in here. Your grasp of propanagda is quite lacking. -out You aren't dealing with someone who is trying to put forward "propaganda". You are dealing with someone who is honestly disgusted by the reaction of a large part of the community. * This IS a subject that needs discussing. * This post from CCP IS useless. My problem is with the people that are using a situation which should be dealt with appropriately, as a launching platform for your in game issues. I have no problem with those that put forward their opinions, without all the random haxsploiting BS. Your posts are pathetic. You're trying to score forum whoring points, while it is apparent from the OP, that veterans are losing there accounts due only to being outed by a hacker. If the OP had made anything at all abundently transparent then noone on these forums would have anything to speculate about. As it stands the OP said nothing and the community feels burned.
Forkumato	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:11:00 - [82] Personally I don't see why devs get to play. Particularly anonymously. If they want to test something they can just create that character with that skill set and try it. At no time should a dev character be in existence for more than 30 days. If it involves a corp or something they should be pretty up front about what they want. I.E. Hi I'm a CCP person and I want to watch your corp fight for this here system, so I'm making this non-interfering low stat character and I'd like to be in the gang, see how it works out for you guys using these new somethings we made. Of course, for that there's beta, inhouse testing etc. That said, in this game BPOs can be darned rare, darned hard to get, and generally only the most powerful organizations are going to end up with them, maybe not at first, but through some kind of diplomacy. That is not a bad thing. It just means that without continual influx of people, resources, and new trumph stuff, some organization will one day, for all intents be considered a winner, or in control of the game, until they get bored of maintaining that. Again that's not bad. However people are going to feel hopeless about it when it's more than 50% in it's progression.
Anila's Delight	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:12:00 - [83] Originally by: Merciless1 Originally by: kieron We hope that this statement will put this issue behind us once and for all and allow us to continue moving forward with the support of our community. That says to me that CCP have released their official statement and they are not going to discuss any future action taken. The whole BoB are devs thing has sounded like a conspiracy against a greater PvP force from day one to me.
Niobe Farstar	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:12:00 - [84] Originally by: Ab Initio You aren't dealing with someone who is trying to put forward "propaganda". You are dealing with someone who is honestly disgusted by the reaction of a large part of the community. We're dealing with someone from BoB, and I think in light of what's happened that is all anyone really needs to know. How the hell do we know that you aren't a dev? How do we know anything when CCP won't talk about this? I'm not even in an alliance but in the future I would like to be and I would hope that anyone I fought against wouldn't be getting special treatment from CCP.
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:13:00 - [85] Kieron, You have created more distrust with this statement, and have cause MUCH more damage to CCP's reputation. Personally, while I may not cancel my accounts over this (until a better MMO comes out), I can promise you that I will not buy another CCP product if this is your company's attitude. ----- INDF Recruitment
IlIlIlIlIlIlIl Hos B4 Bros	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:14:00 - [86] Originally by: Ab Initio Stop threatening to cancel your accounts and do it already. The rest of the community would be better off without your input. The irony here being that it seems like the community would be better off without you or your friends since your alliance clearly thinks it is above the rules.
DREDD Battlestars Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:14:00 - [87] Reading all this & completely understanding the feelings of the Eve community, the answer given by Kieron is unacceptable. $14.99 a month, certainly not worth the answer given. I think you need to start slashing your prices in half now. I see the post by a few BoB here. Your reaching for straws, your credibility is destroyed, personally I'd stop posting & hope, just hope this all goes away. But as for me, you have lost respect forever in my eyes. I know not all of BoB have exploited, but a number of you knew what was going on & did nothing. To say all of BoB shouldn't be held accountable is like saying the holocaust didn't happen.
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:18:00 - [88] i wonder why they had bob investigating bob/dev stuff? think about it for a sec, 5 devs in RKK alone, how many more in the rest of bob? wouldnt it be kinda hard for 2-3 devs to fire the rest of the office? one thing though, when will molle be banned for putting a persons RL name/adress/workplace on these forums? when will digitalcommunist be banned for trying to get peoples ip adresses ingame? when will db preacher be banned for ebaying101 when will bob alliance be disbanded for using information they knew werent allowed?(the leadership were effectively exploiting when they knew that these persons were devs and still accepted advance information) will CCP ever do anything against bob? answer is, never as they would ban themselves then. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent? Quote: jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag
MessiahOfLight Gallente Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:18:00 - [89] Originally by: Anonymous Coward Originally by: MessiahOfLight hm... are there People here, who actually take the possibility into consideration, that maybe ... just MAYBE there were no T2 BPOs given out to BOB by any DEV GM or whatever? There were many more issues than just T2 BPOs here, however they seem to all be equally brushed aside by CCP with such a non-answer. So we are guilty until prooven otherwise... Maybe Kieron didnt say anything about that because there is nothing to confirm or deny yet? And only because he didnt say what you wanted to read, doesnt mean that there is something to hide. But well my personal advice to you is ... quit the game and move on to somewhere else ... If you see cheating all around you here, there is really no point inm staying. --MOL
Skelator Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 07:19:00 - [90] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: manimani Originally by: kieron I will leave this thread open for discussion. Please keep comments and replies on topic and constructive. Originally by: Ab Initio Stop threatening to cancel your accounts and do it already. The rest of the community would be better off without your input. Although he talked about canceling his account, Milano II offered some of his own views on the topic. While you just came in here offering nothing constructive, i hate to do this backseat moderating job, but please stay on topic, Ab Initio. CCP, needs to let us know more, what did the developer do within said alliance? What did he do that his character to be removed from the game? Why wasn't the damage to the game done by the developer reversed? I've written pages on the topic, but common sense get thrown out the door when it comes to a good witch hunt. All that has been accomplished here, is the destruction of legitimate accounts, because they were publicly outed as working for CCP. Congratulations. Fair enough Statement. Now hear my counterstatement/question. What PROOF do you have Sir that there Weren't Witches found and not named or that there was a mass coverup OR That there weren't T-II BPO's found and not mentioned? See the dilemma in your statement. These folks just want a Real Itemized answer to the Dozen PLUS Charges nothing more nothing less. As paying customers like yourself they are just seeking reassurance like we all are. If Paying folks are worried about this please refrain from smacking them. Skelator



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