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Concerning the Recent Allegations of Developer Misconduct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Captain Thunk Explode. Now. Please.	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:30:00 - [511] Originally by: Ebil Kinebil Originally by: Captain Thunk So you're confirming that the chatlogs Kugu posted were actually legitimate, not fabricated and DPB did indeed intend to buy the character for real life currency disregarding the EULA entirely? So why isn't he banned then? If I think about murdering my boss/flatmate/cat do I get life in prison? No, unless I actually carry it out or attempt to. Well considering he repeatedly attempted to make the bank transfer after swapping bank details then he more than "thought" about it, now didn't he? so....why isn't he banned now Dianabolic and yourself have confirmed those mails to be real external from kugu and direct from the original source? If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team.
Auri Hella The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:30:00 - [512] This thread does not deliver.
Maze La'Zie Caldari Technology La'Zie	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:31:00 - [513] Originally by: Fry Fortune A lot of people are just playing the same old record (bob guys, and anti bob fanboys.) As such I believe the collective response of the community to Kieron's post is that it isn't enough. Some people will never be happy with what ccp say, in that I agree, but when 95% of the people are not satisfied, and the only guys who seem to be satisfied are either biased(bob leadership), or enjoy a close relationship with ccp (Ifni) the general consensus seems to be that we want more details/ and a stance on issues from Kieron or whoever is in charge of clearing CCP's name of corruption. Agreed. Please kieron/Oveur/Hellmar/whoever. Give us clarification on whether or not any CCP employee cheated and, if so, that you dealt with it appropriately. ___________________ Chief Scientific Officer Technology La'Zie Author of The End
Sinlare Gallente Sinlare Auditorium	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:31:00 - [514] Originally by: Seamus O'Flannery This is me canceling my subscription. Heavyhanded ISD moderation sure doesn't help alleviate any suspicions. Note to moderators: If you edit my post, please leave the first sentence. Thanks in advance. Please, do take the rest of your spamming corpmembers with you.
Sinlare Gallente Sinlare Auditorium	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:33:00 - [515] Originally by: Prydeless I dont see how anyone can say how nothing was found. Kierons original post might as well of been locked for no content... If a glass is empty it's empty, it can't magically be full just because you wish it is.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:33:00 - [516] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh No Mittani, we are defending the right of Devs to be in ANY alliance they choose. Not only BoB. Important difference. Any dev or ccp employee though who tells anyone else he is in that position should just be fired and all accounts deleted. It's a serious breach and it ruins the GAME.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:33:00 - [517] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh No Mittani, we are defending the right of Devs to be in ANY alliance they choose. Not only BoB. Important difference. It appears that BoB has the most devs in it, compared to any other organization in the game; your vehement defense of their right to fly with you is little more than the keening demands of someone who wishes to keep the game rigged in their favor. It is childishly easy to see through your hollow protestations and see the motives underlying them, and that is why you see such outrage from the community. You can continue trying to pass this off as mere 'BoB hate', but what is really happening is an anti-CCP backlash. There should not be devs on Tranquility, and there certainly should be no devs in 0.0 alliances. There absolutely, utterly, should never be any devs leading the capital fleet of a 0.0 alliance who also happen to donate all their t2 bpos to their corporation after being outed as a dev and forced to leave. Really, that bit shouldn't even bear mentioning, it's so blindingly obvious. It's pathetic that CCP apparently did not understand that.
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:34:00 - [518] Originally by: Borasao I'm sure that any number of gaming magazines (online and paper) would love to run a story about the possibility of developers in/of an MMOG played in the game and manipulated it to their advantage in any number of ways. This remains to be seen. The impact of this event will be far less than average poster in this thread believes. For a short while, eve will have slightly less lag and slightly less paranoid people in. Most people "outraged" at this "inconcievable breach of conduct" will continue playing, and forget about this until the next time someone accuses anyone of being a dev. Then the story will repeat itself, this time mentioning this "incident", as well. BoB will still be hated, accused of cheating and being 90% developers. Devs will still play this game in all major alliances. The only thing I hope is that there will be no more hackers to "expose" any of them. Imagine your best friend in eve being a dev, without you knowing it. Then a self-righteous RL criminal on his "quest for justice" reveals that he is actually (gasp!) a developer. You never see that person again in eve, regardless of the fact that you spent 3-4 hours each day with this person for the last three years and is actually closer to you than many people you know in RL. I am sickened by some of the people here, and am especially dissapointed with the Black Lance crowd. You're not good people. . "Life is no way to treat an animal." ~Tombstone of Kilgore Trout
Jacob Majestic GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:34:00 - [519] Edited by: Jacob Majestic on 07/02/2007 16:34:17 Originally by: Sinlare Originally by: Prydeless I dont see how anyone can say how nothing was found. Kierons original post might as well of been locked for no content... If a glass is empty it's empty, it can't magically be full just because you wish it is. Without "spamming corp members" this misconduct would have never been brought to light. How long are you going to be satisfied "playing BoB's game" when there is evidence that the game has been rigged? Originally by: The Mittani There absolutely, utterly, should never be any devs leading the capital fleet of a 0.0 alliance who also happen to donate all their t2 bpos to their corporation after being outed as a dev and forced to leave. It should also be noted that these events were alleged to occur in 2005. Anyone who plays EVE knows that it takes money to make money. Any ill-gotten gains that were worth X in 2005 probably have made an impact of 2X or even 3X now that we're in 2007.
Berious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:34:00 - [520] Originally by: Sinlare Originally by: Seamus O'Flannery This is me canceling my subscription. Heavyhanded ISD moderation sure doesn't help alleviate any suspicions. Note to moderators: If you edit my post, please leave the first sentence. Thanks in advance. Please, do take the rest of your spamming corpmembers with you. Ironic considering the number of your content free posts in this thread.

Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:37:00 - [521] Devs playing the game cannot be just regular players, no matter how you look at it. Their vision is just as twisted if they are all (or most) playing in BoB as if they were not playing the game. Kieron stated there were devs in BoB, RA and ASCN. Is that it ? then it means there are 95%+ devs in bob 1 or 2 in RA and ASCN no longer exist, don't you think it would be a BIG issue if it were the case ? Maybe having some statistic telling us that not only there is 1 odd dev playing with RA (spy ?)but that actually a large majority of devs playing in alliance warfare are NOT in BoB. (BoB is less than 10% of the players involved in alliance warfare, so anything about 50% of the devs in BoB would be disturbing). It's especialy a problem if said alliance (BoB) is the most succesfull one at the moment. From my point of view I would just like to know the # of devs playing in each alliance (with their main character).
Rob Graves	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:37:00 - [522] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh No Mittani, we are defending the right of Devs to be in ANY alliance they choose. Not only BoB. Important difference. That all of them happens to reside in BoD and earn director roles through advice and donations is completely irrelevant.
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:37:00 - [523] Edited by: Logan Feynman on 07/02/2007 16:34:26 Originally by: Jacob Majestic How long are you going to be satisfied "playing BoB's game" when there is evidence that the game has been rigged? What evidence? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. . "Life is no way to treat an animal." ~Tombstone of Kilgore Trout
Hedgie	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:46:00 - [524] Quote: Originally Posted by Dianabolic ...hell even t20 secret infos i had in the past, i trusted u all with those. Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:09 pm Taken from one of the recent rkk leak posts snip Please don't post RL names -Eldo Davip([email protected]). Speaks for itself really.
Gneiss Phace	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:46:00 - [525] Originally by: Amiable Quinn This is why it is vitally important for CCP to address some fundamental questions: 1. How was this investigation undertaken? 2. Was any malfeasance discovered? 3. What specifically are the rules for CCP employee participation in EvE? (Eg.. Are they allowed to scam? Are they allowed to win T2 BPO's? If discovered are they allowed to transfer their assets?) 4. How is CCP employee oversight handled? /signed
Jacob Majestic GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:47:00 - [526] Edited by: Jacob Majestic on 07/02/2007 16:46:02 Edited by: Jacob Majestic on 07/02/2007 16:45:30 Originally by: Gneiss Phace Originally by: kieron In both cases, these accusations were recently brought forward when a player revealed the identity of numerous CCP employee characters. Since these play characters are known to belong to CCP employees, they will be removed from the game. Many of them have been around since the creation of EVE and it is most unfortunate that these developers are now forced to end their relationships with their in-game friends, but that is our policy when the anonymity of staff members has been compromised. Oh noes! Devs will have to buy new uber characters and rejoin their old corps! With un-traceable and unaccountable character names! The horror. The horror. Like relationships end when toons die.... Oh yea, and if they have cash flow problems, they can spawn officer-fitted Scorpions and fly them into a BoB gatecamp! Not like CCP GMs would ever consider doing something like that. Oh wait.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:48:00 - [527] Originally by: Avon I think we have all stated that we would be in favour of more disclosure. Read back. Well then! Kindly disclose your defense of T20 donating his 10 t2 bpos from his character Ishos to Reikoku, once he was forced to leave the corp? Let's assume for the moment that those t2 bpos were legitimately gained through legitimate game mechanics. No 'spawning bpos' argument or any of that nonsense. Just a simple transaction: one of the main developers of the game is forced to leave RKK with his character, and as he leaves he just happens to donate thousands of dollars worth of the rarest items in the game to his beloved corp out of the goodness of his heart. Your reasoning as to why this is peachy keen, and doesn't reek of an ethical violation?
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:48:00 - [528] Wow admittedly I did read everything, but I too found Kieron's response inadequate. However, I will offer some constructive criticism here: 1. Not being able to investigate misconduct in an event arc because of the passage of time is a big problem here. Putting the 'free' mothership and BoB aside, I have been hearing more and more about alliances knowing about events ahead of time. Not just BoB, but ASCN and others. The Aurora team has a leaky faucet and perhaps some new auditing technique needs to be implemented there. 2. If the Devs are going to play the game for the benifit of the players, then they need to experience all aspects of the game instead of just joining a major alliance. I've often said that if CCP producers/devs had to mine ice for a full hour, they would likely create a macro 10 minutes into the event. 3. I'm actually not surprised by the number of BPO's Lord Stone had. He could have easily scored the Sabre and used the revenue from that to buy the other BPO's there. The other ones sell for jump change (400-800mil) and could have been easily acquired. However, if the characters are being deleted, then their posessions, including the bpo's, should be removed as well. No one should be able to keep their 'stuff' If the devs did nothing wrong except reveal their identities, then I do feel sorry for them. Starting from scratch sucks. I hope they learn their lesson. ------------------- Looking for Amarr Mission Runner
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:49:00 - [529] Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: Avon I think we have all stated that we would be in favour of more disclosure. Read back. Well then! Kindly disclose your defense of T20 donating his 10 t2 bpos from his character Ishos to Reikoku, once he was forced to leave the corp? Let's assume for the moment that those t2 bpos were legitimately gained through legitimate game mechanics. No 'spawning bpos' argument or any of that nonsense. Just a simple transaction: one of the main developers of the game is forced to leave RKK with his character, and as he leaves he just happens to donate thousands of dollars worth of the rarest items in the game to his beloved corp out of the goodness of his heart. Your reasoning as to why this is peachy keen, and doesn't reek of an ethical violation? If I was leaving Eve I would give my stuff to BNC. What would you do with your stuff? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Jacob Majestic GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:51:00 - [530] Originally by: Avon If I was leaving Eve I would give my stuff to BNC. What would you do with your stuff? You don't think CCP devs should be held to a higher standard of ethics with regard to their interaction with in-game alliances? Interesting.

Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:51:00 - [531] Originally by: Amiable Quinn Originally by: Logan Feynman This remains to be seen. The impact of this event will be far less than average poster in this thread believes. For a short while, eve will have slightly less lag and slightly less paranoid people in. Most people "outraged" at this "inconcievable breach of conduct" will continue playing, and forget about this until the next time someone accuses anyone of being a dev. Then the story will repeat itself, this time mentioning this "incident", as well. Eh, you may well be right. I can only speak for myself, and I know if this isn't handled adequately, it will have an effect on my decision to re-up. As for BoB: I really feel bad for you guys, you are in a no-win situation. I would reccomend being at the forefront of more disclosure,as opposed to being supportive of the stonewalling, but its your call. I don't support stonewalling. I support the company I see no reason to distrust for now. From my current position, I believe it would have been better to offer more in the way of facts, especially since it appears that the facts would clear BoB of endless accusations of cheating and being devs. However, this is how they handle these incidents, and I am sure they have their reasons. However, what I am mainly in favour here is that the devs should have the right to play this game, and that the idea that they are cheating and helping their respective alliances is absurd. I also hate withchunts and conspiracy theories. . "Life is no way to treat an animal." ~Tombstone of Kilgore Trout
Michayel Lyon The Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:51:00 - [532] Non-BoB BoB --- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions
Seamus O'Flannery GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:52:00 - [533] Originally by: Avon If I was leaving Eve I would give my stuff to BNC. What would you do with your stuff? Just like it's not okay for a dev to leave his character in a corp once he's outed, neither is it okay to leave his billions of isk worth of T2 BPOs.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:52:00 - [534] Originally by: Jacob Majestic Originally by: Avon If I was leaving Eve I would give my stuff to BNC. What would you do with your stuff? You don't think CCP devs should be held to a higher standard of ethics with regard to their interaction with in-game alliances? Interesting. What is unethical about giving your corp your stuff? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:52:00 - [535] Originally by: The Mittani It appears that BoB has the most devs in it, compared to any other organization in the game From evidence what do you deduce that BoB has the most devs in it? Originally by: TheMittani your vehement defense of their right to fly with you is little more than the keening demands of someone who wishes to keep the game rigged in their favor. It is childishly easy to see through your hollow protestations and see the motives underlying them, and that is why you see such outrage from the community. No. I play internet space games for a challenge. I don't want it rigged in my favour. Originally by: TheMittani There should not be devs on Tranquility, and there certainly should be no devs in 0.0 alliances. That is your opinion, you are entitled to it. I happen to disagree and so, at the moment, do CCP. Maybe this fiaso will change that policy. I hope it doesn't because I beleive it will be detrimental to the quality of the game. Maybe it would lead to less damage in other ways such as improved player confidence, but somehow i doubt it. Would the screaming loonies beleive CCP if they said "we have changed our policy. Devs no longer play on TQ accounts" ?...On the basis of todays hysteria I suspect not. Originally by: TheMittani There absolutely, utterly, should never be any devs leading the capital fleet of a 0.0 alliance who also happen to donate all their t2 bpos to their corporation after being outed as a dev and forced to leave. Again that is your opinion, and my response lies above. However since my opinion coincides with the current position of CCP i suspect you will discount it immediately. Originally by: TheMittani Really, that bit shouldn't even bear mentioning, it's so blindingly obvious. It's pathetic that CCP apparently did not understand that. No, what is pathetic is that they did not come up with something better than this sorry excuse for a statement, which as many of my alliance mates predicted has lead to further patheticness from certains section of the community. .... Playing EVE on easy mode since May 2003.
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:53:00 - [536] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Jacob Majestic Originally by: Avon If I was leaving Eve I would give my stuff to BNC. What would you do with your stuff? You don't think CCP devs should be held to a higher standard of ethics with regard to their interaction with in-game alliances? Interesting. What is unethical about giving your corp your stuff? It appears to be less ethical than not giving them your stuff. Interesting. . "Life is no way to treat an animal." ~Tombstone of Kilgore Trout
Torshin TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:53:00 - [537] Originally by: Jacob Majestic Originally by: Avon If I was leaving Eve I would give my stuff to BNC. What would you do with your stuff? You don't think CCP devs should be held to a higher standard of ethics with regard to their interaction with in-game alliances? Interesting. this is interesting to here discussion of ethics from a turncoat ----------------------------------------------- Offical Tardz Poo-litical Anal-yst
Jacob Majestic GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:54:00 - [538] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Jacob Majestic Originally by: Avon If I was leaving Eve I would give my stuff to BNC. What would you do with your stuff? You don't think CCP devs should be held to a higher standard of ethics with regard to their interaction with in-game alliances? Interesting. What is unethical about giving your corp your stuff? Would you ask questions if an employee of the US Mint died and left his descendants stacks of consecutively-numbered $100 bills?
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:55:00 - [539] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Jacob Majestic Originally by: Avon If I was leaving Eve I would give my stuff to BNC. What would you do with your stuff? You don't think CCP devs should be held to a higher standard of ethics with regard to their interaction with in-game alliances? Interesting. What is unethical about giving your corp your stuff? Don't you just find it slightly odd that a corp member would give several billion ISK worth of T2 BPO's to a corp? I mean, most people would quote happily kill to get one T2 BPO, let alone ten (unsure of precise number, I cba to find it) This is not an accusation, just an observation. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Berious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:56:00 - [540] Us mere subscribers wouldn't get advanced warning before we were banned to transfer stuff. We want these devs to get the normal player experience, right?



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