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Solbright altaltaltaltt
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Posted - 2007.11.28 13:03:00 -
[271]
 Originally by: Amarr Holymight
if you have it so it checks whether your account is activated as was said earlier this eliminates non subscribers laying on two long skills.
Lol, obviously. There is no way CCP would give away even more free training time. This is a non-issue and has nothing to do with farming.
How about if you train a skill it keeps training to level 5 til you change it?
A real queue is better and can compensate for farmers.
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Amarr Holymight
Amarr
deii feram
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.11.29 03:28:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Amarr Holymight on 29/11/2007 03:29:19
Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
if you have it so it checks whether your account is activated as was said earlier this eliminates non subscribers laying on two long skills.
Lol, obviously. There is no way CCP would give away even more free training time. This is a non-issue and has nothing to do with farming.
Its not giving away more free training time ?? You still can only leave one skill training while your account is offline. As in the suggestion that was made asks why not have a skill queue that is active while you are still subscribing but can detect when you are not before it goes to the next skill. Thus only alowing the skill q for subscribers and not eliminating the old way of being able to leave one skill training.
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Ereinion Erinsal
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Posted - 2007.11.29 03:51:00 -
[273]
I have easily lost a week from crappy school interfering with my ability to log in and change a skill before i head out to the bus, this would save me the frustration of "oh ****, I forgot to change my skill.
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Solbright altaltaltaltt
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Posted - 2007.11.29 08:11:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
Thus only alowing the skill q for subscribers and not eliminating the old way of being able to leave one skill training.
Ya, there is no change needed, training terminates at end of current skill like always. And, yes, this method of skill completing is free training time. CCP could, instead, have the training terminate the moment the account expires.
Nobody wants it to change and a queue wouldn't change it so it's not really talked about.
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Amarr Holymight
Amarr
deii feram
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.11.29 11:56:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
""Nobody wants it to change and a queue wouldn't change it so it's not really talked about.""
That is ridiculous statement, if nobody wants it to change why are there so many posts about it and people wondering if it is possible. Have you been sent here by CCP to disrupt the momentum of this thread with flaming rhetoric please be constructive here!!
Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
And, yes, this method of skill completing is free training time.
How is it free training time if the queue is only available to paying subscribers as suggested? Have you not comprehended what ppl are talking about here?
There is surely a way that can please both casual paying subscriber and not have a negative effect on the gameplay and that would be to only allow a queue to occur while subscribed otherwise normal gameplay resumes win win for everyone.
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Solbright altaltaltaltt
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:06:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt
Nobody wants it to change and a queue wouldn't change it so it's not really talked about.
That is ridiculous statement, if nobody wants it to change why are there so many posts about it and people wondering if it is possible.
That wasn't about queuing, that was about the gift of finishing the current skill when the account expires.
Quote:
Quote:
And, yes, this method of skill completing is free training time.
How is it free training time if the queue is only available to paying subscribers as suggested? Have you not comprehended what ppl are talking about here?
Again, I was talking about the existing gift, not queuing.
Quote:
There is surely a way that can please both casual paying subscriber and not have a negative effect on the gameplay and that would be to only allow a queue to occur while subscribed otherwise normal gameplay resumes win win for everyone.
Absolutely. Try reading some of my earlier posts. I had attempted to explain that a full queue is the way to go. Anything less creates problems.
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Amarr Holymight
deii feram
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.11.30 08:10:00 -
[277]
Yes I have seen all your previous troll.. ahem I mean comments.
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Amarr Holymight
deii feram
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.11.30 08:30:00 -
[278]
If you create an infinite or 100 skill queue a farmer will setup an account for 3-12 months give his character all his skill books and let him train away only to log on when he needs to start a new skill(farmer heaven!). A one or two (preferably one) skill, skill queue can't really help the farmers too this extent and will help the casual gamer enough to strike a balance in making the game more accessible to new players.
Reasons for a short skill queue
1. It can be used during server downtime as a back up so we don't lose any skill training through no fault of our own. This includes unexpected server crashes!!!
2. Allow for casual gamers or ppl to carry on with their everyday lives to train those hard to get 2 skills during their 9 hours of work.
3. Doesn't improve the life of a farmer enough to be hazardous to the game. (This is not our main concern anyway it's CCP who are losing out so let them deal with it).
Reasons against long queue.
1. Long absenteeism from the game shouldn't be rewarded. If you have been afk a few months you shouldn't have as much skillpoints as the person who has been playing the game and providing towards it during this time they will rightfully feel cheated.
2. Farmers would have a field day with this notion setting up umpteen characters as it would be easy and not time consuming for them to have 50+ characters training.
3. It's not needed so why implement just cause we can?
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Solbright altaltaltaltt
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Posted - 2007.11.30 09:59:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
Yes I have seen all your previous troll.. ahem I mean comments.
That's debatable.
Quote:
If you create an infinite or 100 skill queue a farmer will setup an account for 3-12 months give his character all his skill books and let him train away only to log on when he needs to start a new skill(farmer heaven!).
One more time - Charging ISK solves that. The cash cost to purchase the GTCs to use the queue just has to offset the ease of use and thereby holding the sell price for farmed pilots at the current level.
Quote:
A one or two (preferably one) skill, skill queue can't really help the farmers too this extent and will help the casual gamer enough to strike a balance in making the game more accessible to new players.
Yes it can!
Quote:
Long absenteeism from the game shouldn't be rewarded.
And it won't be. The skill system is not a reward for being active. It maybe considered a reward for forking over lots of cash though. It's not much more than a progressive content enabler.
Quote:
If you have been afk a few months you shouldn't have as much skillpoints as the person who has been playing the game and providing towards it during this time they will rightfully feel cheated.
Don't see why this is an issue. If some dork wants to throw away all that cash and not even play the game then that's his loss. Shouldn't be a concern of anyone else.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.11.30 10:25:00 -
[280]
The only thing that people found against the skill queue is 'farmers'?
Someone earning real money by building characters will spend the necessary time and log on nights to secure his investment.
Other players that actually have a life do not wake p on nights for skills and are ****ed to oblivion when they can't find a long enough skill before going on holidays!
If the reasoning behind no skill queue is just 'farmers exploit it', why not remove mining, belt NPCs, forbid usage of evemon or any skill planning tool, destroy all API keys because the auto skill update may help them...
Such reasoning takes good features away from eula abiding players!
If everything that could be used to create value (may be in isk, SP, items or anything that can be sold for real money) was not implemented or removed from the game, then, there would be nothing in Eve!
Now, see that nothing can be done ingame against a full time man paid 2 cents a day in a hole of a third world country spending his days switching skill trainings and farming NPCs. The way to act against such bad busyness is to catch them when selling on ebay, not killing the game by not making the features that would ease up everyone on an aspect of the game that is not user friendly for people with a life.
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Amarr Holymight
deii feram
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.11.30 11:00:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Eleana Tomelac
The only thing that people found against the skill queue is 'farmers'?
Someone earning real money by building characters will spend the necessary time and log on nights to secure his investment. ...etc
Yes it's so true. I hark back to an earlier comment probably the only one Solbright didn't quote ,in reference to farmers "This is not our main concern anyway it's CCP who are losing out so let them deal with it". Farming a character is not half as bad as isk farming anyway. It can only affect CCPs pockets not the IG economy which is our concern.
A skill queue should be available permanently for FREE! to protect against server crashes RL issues etc.
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Sheila Chandra
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Posted - 2007.11.30 13:18:00 -
[282]
I think a skill queue would be a very bad idea.
Currently you can for example start a very time intensive skill the day your account runs out, then leave it disabled for the skill and reactivate your account a month later or so and the skill is done.
If we now would have a queue (especially one with a lot skills to queue up), this would be done often that people just add months over months of training, 2 or 3 times a year reactivate the account and in a year or 2 they would have a great skilled PvP char for costs of half a billion they could sell in forums then for 5 billions or more...
Also currently what most people do when they know they arent there to change skills, is just let it run a while and then switch to something longer. Theres always more then one skilling path to be done and i never had it happen yet that this didnt work well, so theres no real need for it even...
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Remko Marr
Caldari
First And Only
CODE RED ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2007.11.30 23:28:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Remko Marr on 30/11/2007 23:28:33
Agh, how many times has this been said already? The solution is simple: have the queue deactivate when you suspend your account.
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Amarr Holymight
deii feram
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.01 01:13:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Remko Marr
Edited by: Remko Marr on 30/11/2007 23:28:33
Agh, how many times has this been said already? The solution is simple: have the queue deactivate when you suspend your account.
Yes it is quite frustrating I've said in a bout three of my posts and you also. Are people just not getting their heads around it ??? Skill queue system for paying subscribers account runs out no skill system. ugga bugga 
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Lenus Daragio
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.04 15:48:00 -
[285]
Here's my proposition for the skill training queue, so listen closely, and yes I'm aware this may be hard to implement.
Don't do a training queue, make it so that if you log on within 24 hours of your skill training completing, and you train a new skill, you regain the time you lost in skill points for that next skill as long as you complete it's training. That is, you'd lose the training time if pause it and switch skills. Call it a rested bonus, which only applies to your next skill if you complete training to the next level.
You don't have to worry about farmers, active players aren't losing precious training time, everyone should be happy.
__________________________________________________
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:41:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Solbright altalt on 04/12/2007 20:42:39
Originally by: Lenus Daragio
You don't have to worry about farmers, active players aren't losing precious training time, everyone should be happy.
Sigh, yes it does help farmers.
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Amarr Holymight
deii feram
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:42:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Amarr Holymight on 04/12/2007 20:42:15
Why is everybody so worried about farmers its like a psychosomatic illness.
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:45:00 -
[288]
Simply because it's an argument that is used to say "don't change the training system".
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Neu Bastian
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Posted - 2007.12.04 22:07:00 -
[289]
A multiple skill queue seems like too much of a benefit to off-line training. People who are on vacation or have RL issues that prevent them from playing for extended periods of time EVE should be worrying about having fun on their vacation or solving their RL stuff and not character training. Something to prevent the loss of training over a smallish period of time how ever, like unscheduled DT, ISP problems, work, etc, would be nice. Hence my proposal, which I'm sure has been mentioned before, too.
A small, official, skill switcher program with a few other options like chat channels, market check, hide-from-boss feature, etc. Would also help some of the skill changing issues. Something small enough to carry on your pen drive while you're on vacations perhaps, or that you could use in your mobile phone while you're settling your divorce and living in a hotel if EVE is oh so important. I would favor this over any queue or the likes. Its been mentioned before, but didn't find any thread to link in a quick search.
Also Weather or not any method helps farmers is irrelevant. CCP should find a way to deal with it on their own terms. However farmers do give money to CCP every now and then so I question how big of a priority solving that is. Also some people "farm" for their own ISK supply and not exchange it for RL money which probably isn't against the terms of use, but I can't be sure.
Neu
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:27:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Neu Bastian
A multiple skill queue seems like too much of a benefit to off-line training.
Obviously it's a benefit, that's why we want the thing. It means one can set up the queue when one is playing the game instead of having to think about what's next all the time.
I can't see how it can be too much of a benefit - There is no impact on in-game functions.
Quote:
People who are on vacation or have RL issues that prevent them from playing for extended periods of time EVE should be worrying about having fun on their vacation or solving their RL stuff and not character training.
Precisely! This is why some have said they'd very much like to have a full queue and it's no problem to make it a full queue so I say do it.
Quote:
Something to prevent the loss of training over a smallish period of time how ever, like unscheduled DT, ISP problems, work, etc, would be nice. Hence my proposal, which I'm sure has been mentioned before, too.
Many times. It's the primary reason for all.
Quote:
A small, official, skill switcher program with a few other options like chat channels, market check, hide-from-boss feature, etc. Would also help some of the skill changing issues. Something small enough to carry on your pen drive while you're on vacations perhaps, or that you could use in your mobile phone while you're settling your divorce and living in a hotel if EVE is oh so important.
Ho-hum. A lot of extra work for everyone, imho. A full queue is superior in every sense.
Quote:
Also Weather or not any method helps farmers is irrelevant. CCP should find a way to deal with it on their own terms.
Please read my previous post.
Quote:
However farmers do give money to CCP every now and then so I question how big of a priority solving that is. Also some people "farm" for their own ISK supply and not exchange it for RL money which probably isn't against the terms of use, but I can't be sure.
Hurm? Character farming is the concern, not ISK farming.
Please read the last few pages of this thread. You might notice most of your ideas are already covered in more detail.
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Lyssandros
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Posted - 2007.12.06 08:03:00 -
[291]
I got an idea of an much faster and cheaper solution, just make a web application where you can select the next skill to train.(Like in the game if you select another while one still running the first gets paused etc.) You can only access it if you are logged in into your eve account on this page.
That would help alot of peoples, because its much more easier to find some web access instead of finding an computer with eve on it in a network which has the ports open.
This would actually be just some lines of php or on this page asp.
I didnt read all pages in this thread so perhaps someone already proposed this idea.
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.12.06 09:12:00 -
[292]
Sigh, can't anyone read!? That doesn't work, it gives farmers lots with no penalty at all.
Not to mention it still requires you to be getting stressed over it while working. That's just not good practice.
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Lyssandros
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Posted - 2007.12.06 09:48:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Solbright altalt
Sigh, can't anyone read!? That doesn't work, it gives farmers lots with no penalty at all.
Not to mention it still requires you to be getting stressed over it while working. That's just not good practice.
I dont think you read or atleast understood my post,
I am just suggesting to make it possible to train a new skill over the web without login into the Game. Nothing qith queue or whatever, so what advantage has a farmer who sits nearly the whole day at an PC with Eve?
Right nearly none he just hasnt to switch between his 10 accounts. (He actually has to switch the accounts but only on the website)
The biggest advantage would be for the people who work or study.
And to the stress part well it would need about 30 secs of your attention. To set a new skill in.
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:26:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Lyssandros
Right nearly none he just hasnt to switch between his 10 accounts. (He actually has to switch the accounts but only on the website)
It's pretty clear that there would be a API addition that could be utilised by existing data mining programs - the result would be fully automated skill changing. I could prolly accept running such programs but I doubt CCP would be so happy with the plummeting value of farmed pilots.
Quote:
The biggest advantage would be for the people who work or study. And to the stress part well it would need about 30 secs of your attention. To set a new skill in.
A queue is better: It's fully integrated. It eliminates those 30 seconds growing into 30 minutes. And at the same time a queue can have a counter balance to farming.
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:29:00 -
[295]
And for the situation where somehow API automation is prevented, a queue is far superior to having to go online at all.
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Lyssandros
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:32:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Solbright altalt
And for the situation where somehow API automation is prevented, a queue is far superior to having to go online at all.
You are right it is worse than a queue, but this would be an quick and cheap solution and atleast its better than now.
For some queue i guess you have to w8 atleast to the next major patch.
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.12.06 12:12:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Lyssandros
... but this would be an quick and cheap solution and atleast its better than now.
That's debatable. The existing system will update the pilot's live data only when you are ingame. Adding externally controlled skill changes will be the same complexity as adding an ingame queue.
Quote:
For some queue i guess you have to w8 atleast to the next major patch.
Nah, there is nothing stopping CCP doing any method at any time.
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Lyssandros
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Posted - 2007.12.06 12:27:00 -
[298]
Edited by: Lyssandros on 06/12/2007 12:30:56
Originally by: Solbright altalt
That's debatable. The existing system will update the pilot's live data only when you are ingame. Adding externally controlled skill changes will be the same complexity as adding an ingame queue.
If you know a little bit about databases and programming, you'd knew there is nothing to discuss.
But I'll try to explain it to you.
All your account infos are stored in a Database.(i.e. Name, Password, Money, Skills etc.).
And you can access an Database through the web or compiled code doesnt matter for the DB.
But if you change something Ingame you have to compile the code new and distribute it to all users.
The web access just needs some lines of php or asp code on the server where the website is.
Edit:This will be my last post, my suggestion stands above.
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.12.06 12:36:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Lyssandros
And you can access an Database through the web or compiled code doesnt matter for the DB.
Lol, there is no way you'll be allowed to specify completion time of a skill. Or that a skill is done yet. Or what skills are already trained. Anything like that can be cheated.
So, either the API has to have all the ingame calculations and related tracking functions added to it, or it just queues the requests until you are next ingame.
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Maalan
Caldari
Lutin Group
Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.06 13:48:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
Reasons against long queue.
1. Long absenteeism from the game shouldn't be rewarded. If you have been afk a few months you shouldn't have as much skillpoints as the person who has been playing the game and providing towards it during this time they will rightfully feel cheated.
2. Farmers would have a field day with this notion setting up umpteen characters as it would be easy and not time consuming for them to have 50+ characters training.
3. It's not needed so why implement just cause we can?
1. Deactivate the skill queue when the account shuts down.
2. Farmers who make money off their accounts probably wont really care if they are updating skills every hour or every week, this is a money making job.
3. Adding a way to automatically loot cans with all the point an click is not necessary but I'd like to see this too to remove the annoyance and limit carpel tunnel issues. Annoyances removed = good.
Just my 0.02ISK
---
You think you are a pirate? You should see how much I made selling you that ship you just went and got blown up...
((Until CCP admits what I look like please pretend my face looks normal)) |
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