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skill queue

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Little Tigerlilly	Posted - 2008.01.15 18:39:00 - [361] Edited by: Little Tigerlilly on 15/01/2008 18:39:53 Originally by: Hari Chinaski Would you expect WoW to allow your character to kill monsters while you are afk sleeping? I doubt it. Would you expect any other MMO to allow your character to advance in any way while you are afk? I doubt it. Eve is unique in that you can do this. In Eve, letting a skill expire is the risk involved. Leveling in any other MMO isn't risk free, so why should it be in Eve? Uh...WoW does let you improve your character while offline. You don't get the benefits until you've come back and put in some time but I think for every hour you were offline they give you an hour of double experience so you can make up for the time you missed. It's working out pretty well for them...
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:31:00 - [362] Edited by: Judaris Delinnea on 15/01/2008 22:28:49 Regarding the Time Management argument... Originally by: Tmarte You are removing the time management skills that are required to keep up with your skill training. I can't help you, nor should the game, if you can't manage your own skills by training short ones while you are online and long ones when you aren't. This is a game, not a time management exercise. My view of this argument is that it is quite idealistic, but highly unrealistic. The fact is, that different people have different strengths and weaknesses. One cannot expect everyone to be able to become experts in time management - this is certainly not the case in real life and that's an even more critical place where it would be ideal. How can we force people into something in a game that could never even be possible in real life? If the game expects this (which it currently does), then what it is essentially doing is discriminating against those that are not so skilled in this area. Translation: it causes a frustration for that segment of the user base, which leads to a higher liklihood that they get fed up and leave even if they enjoy other parts of the game. Result: You get less players to interact with and CCP gets less revenue. I have good time management skills and so I rarely miss switching skills on 3 different accounts, but even I still get frustrated with this level of micromanagement. Micromanagement is a factor of what kills alot of people's interest in games out there. There is obviously significant support for this functionality since these threads continue to be raised for the last few years. -- -- -- Regarding the Accomplishment argument... Originally by: Tmarte I was trying to get you to realize that by implementing the feature that the game will loose a sense of accomplishment when you finish a skill. Personally, I don't get a sense of accomplishment when I finish a skill, I get the sense when I can load that mod I wanted, or fly that ship I am looking forward to, or to see how my current ship physically handles with the additional stats that came with a skill (for me these things typically mean a string of skills). The item is the golden treasure for me, not the skill training that was needed to use it. The item is the substantiative thing that I can actually see, use and be proud of. The skill training piece is merely the administrative work that needs to be done to get to that point. I perceive skill training as character maintenance; maintaining its growth - meaning a micromanagement element and not the meat of the game where the fundamental enjoyment lies. RL parallel example - If you are building a house, are you more likely to feel the greatest sense of accomplishment when the electrical contractor you hired finishes his work, or the flooring guy is done laying down the carpeting? Or are you most likely to feel the greatest moment of accomplishment when the house is completed, the furniture is moved in and you can finally stand back aways and admire the sun as it sets behind the roof or lounge in the living room with a martini for the first time? -- -- -- And since I mention 'micromanagement' alot, before someone says "if you don't like it, then play another game" - I handle micromanagement relatively well on an execution level. But it still gets me frustrated because that has typically been the primary reason that has caused me to eventually burn out in past games after hitting my tolerance limit. In real life I could hire people to manage all that minor stuff as I get richer, but I cannot do that in games. What I'm doing here is trying to support those many, many people out there that aren't so skilled or tolerant in such management activities. And I have played numerous online games out there now and defunct ones from the past, and they all have had areas that required frustrating levels of micromanagement. This overall problem is not unique to EVE and I don't expect it all to be fixed. I just see this function as an useful, incremental way to ease the strain.
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:38:00 - [363] Edited by: Tmarte on 16/01/2008 12:41:45 Hey, remove my name from those quotes i didn't say either of those, somebody else did. We need skill queue!
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:16:00 - [364] You're right, sorry. I got the nested quotes mixed up.
Nethers School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:35:00 - [365] we need it. When subscription stops, so does traning.
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:14:00 - [366] NP judaris, i couldn't think of a polite way (since there's no PM system on the board) to say it lol, so pardon any rudeness on my part. Either way, we're up to 13 pages, we need some in put from a Dev, to see what they think of this, and why it's been on the drawingboard for soooo long without moving any further.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:44:00 - [367] Accomplishement on a skill finishing? Not at all... I would say relief when the skill was more than a week! I will soon have the relief of finishing amarr cruiser at 5... Accomplishement is when you beat someone that was said to be stronger than you. I beat an old corpmate in a deimos duel which was said to be the best HAS expert we know in this corp and a few friendly ones, this was indeed an accomplishement and the feeling is truely different. Now if I can do something with an amarr T2 cruiser that I couldn't do before, it will be an accomplishement, if it's only flying new ships, i'm happy because it adds more choices to me in the game. Long skills and skill time managing is not an issue for me, it's just really boring, I don't play to change skills, I play to fly ships, interact with people, compete in stupid contests we like to make... Please understand that what may be a challenge for you may be boring for some and annoying for others. Just as I understand that duels in the same ship type are not realistic, thus many will not like it, but I find them fun and challenging to get the upper hand in a supposed equal fight. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 22:00:00 - [368] Edited by: Judaris Delinnea on 16/01/2008 22:01:40 Originally by: Tmarte we're up to 13 pages, we need some in put from a Dev, to see what they think of this, and why it's been on the drawingboard for soooo long without moving any further. That and the fact that strings have continued to pop up on this topic over the years proves that there is significant support for this. The devs being mum about it is frustrating in itself. I would at the very least would like to see something from them about where in the priority list this is if they are considering it. Or if they are not considering it, what the reasons are. At least then we could have something solid to refer to, so as to stop these endless debates year after year.
alerak Caldari E.V.A.lution	Posted - 2008.01.17 15:08:00 - [369] Edited by: alerak on 17/01/2008 15:08:08 Is there any way that we could get access to the skill training menu on mobile phones (as long as there is an active account), i just think this may help people if they are away for long periods of time? Al -------------------------------------------------- hehe :)
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.17 21:56:00 - [370] Edited by: Judaris Delinnea on 17/01/2008 22:00:13 Originally by: alerak Is there any way that we could get access to the skill training menu on mobile phones That's one of the suggestions that has come up over the years. I think some people had raised some concerns about it being considered because CCP wanted people to actually log into the game. But that doesn't make much sense to me. In such circumstances, people currently just log into the game, switch a skill, and log back out. And that really is no different than switching skills via mobile or website. Personally I wouldn't use that option much, though. I normally need to consult my EVEMon skill plans on my home machine to even remember what I wanted to train next since I have the skill training sequences planned out months in advance.
alerak Caldari E.V.A.lution	Posted - 2008.01.18 13:36:00 - [371] maybe ccp need to put a bit more thought into it and make it a bit more versatile for some people who are on the move / holiday ect... i think it could help a lot of people with their skilling thanks Al -------------------------------------------------- hehe :)
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.18 14:20:00 - [372] Gah, they don't need more thought into it, they just need to do it already! Unfortunately if we did see this it would probably be in the next expansion, which is another 5 months away ( if ccp keeps their twice a year schedule for expansions).
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.18 15:22:00 - [373] I guess the next big one will not be before this schedule, still, having this listed in the to do list of the next expansion would be better than not having a word from CCP about this. I guess we may get some new models and minor fixes/upgrades in the meantime as there are stuff like planets they didn't remake yet. CCP hasn't to justify a yes or a no, just saying yes or no would be a good thing and settle the questioning about will we have a skill queue! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.18 21:41:00 - [374] Edited by: Judaris Delinnea on 18/01/2008 21:42:44 Originally by: alerak ...for some people who are on the move / holiday ect... I agree, and I think this is one of the central tenets that make up the pro-queue case. CCP designed the mechanics to allow us to utilize all of the time that we pay for by improving our characters. So after giving us that big bone as an advantage other games, it's a bit like they're falling short by not giving us the safe-guards against lost time due to emergency downtimes, vacations, sick in the hospital, etc. But I suppose that's kind of an unfair statement... like 'if you give them a foot, they'll take a mile.' Originally by: Eleana Tomelac CCP hasn't to justify a yes or a no, just saying yes or no would be a good thing and settle the questioning about will we have a skill queue! Yea, but then people would dive right into whining about the whys and whens - including me!
Javeoon	Posted - 2008.01.19 04:56:00 - [375] I like this idea: just make it like normal training, it won't change anything. Can queue one kill at a time (after one your learning). If you de sub then the skill your learning continues as it was but the queue drops.
alerak Caldari E.V.A.lution	Posted - 2008.01.19 12:48:00 - [376] thinking about it i dont see how it would have a bad effect on skilling maybe ccp should do a test run with it or something? even if they dont put skill queing it would still help out a lot. Al -------- Al
Hurrican	Posted - 2008.01.20 19:19:00 - [377] Skill queue help new players the most. New players need to change skills often i.e. once every hour to 6 hours. These skills do not rack up many skill point like 200k sp for 4 days or something like that. So to make this something that cant be abused by stopping paying for eve whilest your skill queue trains your character for you. Have the skill you able to queu up to say 500k sp or less. Thus it would not be that helpfull to people that have all skills at lvl 4 or 5 i.e. people who have played for ages. And still be a MASSIVE help for new people who change say 5 skills a day. just my thoughts on this idea. The only respon for not putting a skill queue is to put of new players .... Means ccp can keep up with hardware upgrades
Lord Ivanow	Posted - 2008.01.21 18:57:00 - [378] Edited by: Lord Ivanow on 21/01/2008 18:57:15 Accsess to your skill managment via Mobile Phone whould open up some people who have difficult worktimes a good option to learn more effective. Imagine you miss switching your skills before you go to work (maybe 15 hours without learning) or even if you go on vacation? (maybe 2-3weeks without learning?) The only option is you call a friend and beg him to switch your skills for you, but in this case you have to give him your password whats an security issue. I dont think its the most important think that the dev¦s should take care of immediatly but it will be still a nice feature.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.01.22 14:13:00 - [379] signet signet again and again and again untill they fix it :D I declare war on stupidity
alerak Caldari E.V.A.lution	Posted - 2008.01.22 18:35:00 - [380] Edited by: alerak on 22/01/2008 18:36:47 Originally by: Lord Ivanow imagine you miss switching your skills before you go to work (maybe 15 hours without learning) or even if you go on vacation? (maybe 2-3weeks without learning?) The only option is you call a friend and beg him to switch your skills for you, but in this case you have to give him your password whats an security issue. exactly my problem, its has happened to me a few times and is very frustrating we need something as a safety from this, one thing or the other. -------- Al
d3vo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.22 19:22:00 - [381] /signed
Rufati	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:53:00 - [382] I like the idea of the queued skill system. That and the dual-learning skill system. I wrote up an idea of mine that kind of combines both those ideas into a system that is more efficient (and doesn't require you to manage your time to an insane degree). My idea is here But regardless, I /sign for the skill queue. Gaps in training might not be a big deal for people with ~60million sp, but for people starting out it's daunting to have to micromanage all this stuff.
Saelyth Nightwish Gallente Stormriders	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:22:00 - [383] I dont have a problem with skill Queue PROVIDED that the skills Stop training if the account is inactive. We dont need people queuing up 2 30+ day skills and shutting down their account for 2 months. IF you cant afford to keep your account on, then you shouldn't be playing in the first place. ----------------------------------- Suggestions Smartbombs vs. Cloak
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:25:00 - [384] i have never been able to see the problem with a skill queue(if the skills just stop training in inaktive accounts) other then whining ass ***es that want to make the game more annoying for every one then it have to be. it's like the challenge in eve is to see if you can outlast all the annoying ****s out there and if you keep in the game with all the annoying idiotic things that there is NO reason for being there but yer... like scramblers, why haven't they got a notice status thing yet? makes no freaking sense.. and auto pilot not jumping to 0 :S idiotic... and exploits not being a banneble offense, pos bowling any one?! etc etc etc.. so many freaking stupid things that is only there to ** people of and make them either leave the game or never really start it.. there is no other reason for them to be there.. so if the devs would get their fingers out of the behind and ACTUALLY LISTEN! and use common sense and logic and FIX those things instead of sitting around doing stuff that adds a little extra to THEIR play type... you know fixing something broken first would be the best choice.... I declare war on stupidity
Polito	Posted - 2008.01.25 20:41:00 - [385] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Call me crazy, but if I could set just ONE skill to train after my current one finishes, I am set. For us casual gamers this would be a really big help, and it would probably require about 8 lines of code to accomplish
Harland Sanders	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:51:00 - [386] /signed. Even a small queue would help out. Just make "Time Management" a skill, tie it to your learning skills, and for every level you get 1 day of queue's so the max you can get is 5 days. Need more? make "Advanced Time Management" that gives you 5 more days for a total of 10. I would think you could log in to refill your queue in 10 days. A way to solve a lot of the inactive account problems would be to limit the amount of skills in the queue based on the time it takes for the queued skills to complete. For example, if you have 20 skills queued up and it would take 9 days and 20 hours to complete all of the queued skills, and your max queue time is 10 days, you couldn't add a skill at the end of the queue that takes 30 days. You could only add one that takes 4 hours or less. Of course, a learning stop after the last active account skill completes is also a solid idea. Accessing skills through a Web UI would also be nice, since I sometimes don't have access to the Eve Client but have web access, but that's another thread.
Yukiyo	Posted - 2008.01.26 03:23:00 - [387] Yes, queueing of skills please
Xiona Vherokior	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:19:00 - [388] I vote No, because I was quite a half year not online and it would be really unfair to be an high-end char for being offline for years.
John Soulreaver	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:10:00 - [389] /signed to queue Skills
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:46:00 - [390] Originally by: Xiona Vherokior I vote No, because I was quite a half year not online and it would be really unfair to be an high-end char for being offline for years. The real question is 'did you suspend your account', if it's a no, it's your loss not setting skills, if it was suspended, the fact that skills should just be cancelled when accounts are deactivated makes this not exploitable... There is still the security issue about people giving passwords to others to change skills on holidays, a queue would fix this risk. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II

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