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Zieferian	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:04:00 - [1] this has probably been proposed a million times now, but i dont see any reason for this to not be incorporated. the ability to queue up skills so that upon finishing one skill, another can be started without you having to be there would help alleviate one of my biggest problems with this game. i dont think it would be overly difficult to do either, just pick skills that you want to train in the order that you want to train them. there are third party programs out there now that can tell you what the most efficient use of time would be to achieve a particular skill goal, but they dont take into account that your skills might finish at 4 am. a skill queue system would allow for the next skill in your list to start immediately following the completion of the current skill training any thoughts? ideas?
Trovax	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:21:00 - [2] I was in the Army a while ago, but when i went away on op's this would have been very handy, especially as i was still paying for my subcription during this time.
Mr Horizontal	Posted - 2007.03.27 18:13:00 - [3] Yeah, or simply go on holiday.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.03.28 00:12:00 - [4] yeah queueing would be nice ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top 3 wishes: 1: No daily downtime. 2: Updated dump of the database. 3: An update of the ingame browser, to fix ex: slow tables.
Emylissan Gallente Wolf Pack Samurai	Posted - 2007.03.28 01:43:00 - [5] I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk.
mo0'shka	Posted - 2007.03.28 03:41:00 - [6] mb, its a time to turn off this feature? your skills will learn only when u r subscribed, but u got a new and shiny queue)
SauronTheMage Caldari Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.03.28 03:49:00 - [7] That's easy to fix. Once the skill is done training, have the system check to see if you are subscribed. If not, training stops. If you are, training moves to next in que.
Emylissan Gallente Wolf Pack Samurai	Posted - 2007.03.28 06:59:00 - [8] Originally by: SauronTheMage That's easy to fix. Once the skill is done training, have the system check to see if you are subscribed. If not, training stops. If you are, training moves to next in que. true, thats a solution for that problem, however i hope they dont remove the skilltraining continuing after the payment expired from the game.
Major Stallion The Dark Horses Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Emylissan I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk. afaik, they changed it so that if your sup expires while skill training, you stop training the skill. At least thats what corp mates have told me when theyve forgotten to pay their sub.
Venomous Angel Strife Mercenaries Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.28 15:20:00 - [10] Actually I believe they are planning on doing this in the future. I read in a Dev blog a while back.
Renfus Celestial Expeditions	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:01:00 - [11] http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/plannedfeat.asp Quote: Skill Training - Queue or Dual training This could enable players to either queue skills so that when one level finishes the next level in that skill starts training automatically, or another preset skill starts training automatically. Dual training would enable you to have a primary long-term skill in training with a secondary short-term skill sharing the training time. After a level in the secondary skill has trained, the primary skill trains at full speed again.
Renfus Celestial Expeditions	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:01:00 - [12] http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/plannedfeat.asp Quote: Skill Training - Queue or Dual training This could enable players to either queue skills so that when one level finishes the next level in that skill starts training automatically, or another preset skill starts training automatically. Dual training would enable you to have a primary long-term skill in training with a secondary short-term skill sharing the training time. After a level in the secondary skill has trained, the primary skill trains at full speed again.
Trovax Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.04 16:18:00 - [13] Originally by: Emylissan I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk. As far as i am aware, i thought skils stopped training when your subscription ended, until you reactivate your account. not only that but you would have to log in as..... a) You would need to buy skills if you didnt have them already b i) You can only train skills that you already have in you skill sheet, and would therefore be required to log in to train those sitting in the hanger. c) If you did stack a load of skills to be trained and didnt bother loggin in for a year, yeah youd have the skills to fly a hulk, but you sure as hell wouldnt have the isk. And i doubt that a veteran player (2 years or more) would not sign in for an entire year or however long the period of training. "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"
Fabrezio Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.04.04 16:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Trovax Originally by: Emylissan I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk. As far as i am aware, i thought skils stopped training when your subscription ended, until you reactivate your account. not only that but you would have to log in as..... It doesn't. However, if the largest concern is that people will queue up a bunch of skills and quit and come back when the skills are done, it means you would have to acknowledge that you have absolutely nothing in the game to keep people interested; that the only reason they log in at all, is to change skills. If that's really the problem, you need to completely redesign skills anyways because you don't have a game, you have a virtual punch card machine. (Clock in, clock out) Really, the skill system I think needs an overhaul anyways. It is VERY anti-n00b and heavily favors people who have been playing since conception. Not being able to fly a ship (even poorly) because you haven't owned your account long enough.....I take it back, the game is a virtual punch card machine =).
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.04.05 04:52:00 - [15] this is a worthy idea
Ananaya	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:51:00 - [16] Add a skill that enables the queue. Each rank allows an additional queue slot. Then you have a max of 5 slots. Make Learning L5 requisite and call the skill Scholar Rank (6) or some such name. This will require that some time be invested in the character before you can use the skill and places a limit on the number of skills you can queue up using already established game mechanics. My two bits.
Emylissan Gallente European Science Armada	Posted - 2007.04.09 23:39:00 - [17] Edited by: Emylissan on 09/04/2007 23:37:56 Well ok the idea is good and i support it but one last flaw i see there.. Shouldnt keep those players who plan their skilltraining good, so that they are on when a skilltraining finishs a little advancement, against those who simply fill up their queue and doesnt care their skill training anymore untill the last skill is learned? I think about an hour break between the next skill in the queue starts. It¦s only a thought, dont kick me...at least not to roughly :P ----------------------------------------------------- Everyone who finds a type error can keep it. -----------------------------------------------------
Draekas Darkwater Sanctum Infinitas	Posted - 2007.04.10 05:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Emylissan Edited by: Emylissan on 09/04/2007 23:37:56 Well ok the idea is good and i support it but one last flaw i see there.. Shouldnt keep those players who plan their skilltraining good, so that they are on when a skilltraining finishs a little advancement, against those who simply fill up their queue and doesnt care their skill training anymore untill the last skill is learned? I think about an hour break between the next skill in the queue starts. It¦s only a thought, dont kick me...at least not to roughly :P Is this a game, or a job?
Aneroi Amarr VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2007.04.10 08:10:00 - [19] this is already on CCP's drawingbaord. stop makinng new threads about it! _____________________________________________________________________
Emylissan Gallente European Science Armada	Posted - 2007.04.10 10:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Draekas Darkwater Originally by: Emylissan Edited by: Emylissan on 09/04/2007 23:37:56 Well ok the idea is good and i support it but one last flaw i see there.. Shouldnt keep those players who plan their skilltraining good, so that they are on when a skilltraining finishs a little advancement, against those who simply fill up their queue and doesnt care their skill training anymore untill the last skill is learned? I think about an hour break between the next skill in the queue starts. It¦s only a thought, dont kick me...at least not to roughly :P Is this a game, or a job? Both, a game for us and a job for ccp^^ ----------------------------------------------------- Everyone who finds a type error can keep it. -----------------------------------------------------
Wander Lost	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:55:00 - [21] There's nothing more to say then... Absolutely, and how soon?
John McDuff Caldari Jovian Labs The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:59:00 - [22] Its probably already in inhouse testing at ccp. Nothing to see here, old news...
Solbright	Posted - 2007.04.10 21:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Aneroi this is already on CCP's drawingbaord. stop makinng new threads about it! Why the hell has it taken 100 million years to get to just the drawing board? You do realise that nothing on the drawing board is a sure thing I hope. I'll put my vote in here, take the frustration out of training. Personally, the idea of a single skill fifo or dual training sounds almost as painful as the current none at all system. The queue really needs a decent depth of ten or more.
Solbright	Posted - 2007.04.11 06:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Ananaya Add a skill that enables the queue. Each rank allows an additional queue slot. Then you have a max of 5 slots. Make Learning L5 requisite and call the skill Scholar Rank (6) or some such name. I like this one simply because it puts something useful in the Learning section.
Villian	Posted - 2007.04.15 04:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Solbright Originally by: Ananaya Add a skill that enables the queue. Each rank allows an additional queue slot. Then you have a max of 5 slots. Make Learning L5 requisite and call the skill Scholar Rank (6) or some such name. I like this one simply because it puts something useful in the Learning section. I think that it would be a good changeup to add in more learning skills. When I picked up the game I overtrained (I'm 5 ranks in all learning skills but Presence of 4) in exchange for the ability to rapidly catch up when I found something I wanted to specialize in later (turned out to be mining). A good way to effect this kind of setup would be to make dual learning and queued learning a single skill. By choosing to learn 3 skills at once, you could effectively handle extremely long trips away from the computer by combining many lengthy skills together (30 day train + 48 day train = 78 day train, the two would finish simultaneously). After learning how to train 5 such skills, a higher tier skill that speeds up the overall learning process in this manner could be added (for example a second 2/4/6/8/10% learning speed bonus applied while learning two skills at once. Alternatively, a Dual Learning Skill that lets you train a second skill at 5/10/15/20/25% the usual speed, or the second skill learns at 50% speed and your primary skill learns at 55/60/65/70/75% speed so that it's not immediately a must have skill for all players. Skill queueing could just be a way of marking skills you already possess (or adding books as risky 0 skill point queued skills). Skills thusly queued could be highlighted, similarly to how skills that are partially learned can be highlighted a different color as a setting. Also, as a big fan of the learning skillset, I thought that perhaps adding a new tier to the base learning skill by having specialty learning skills for the different skillsets. For example, Spaceship Command Learning, which is 2/4/6/8/10% to learning spaceship command skills. These kinds of skills would not be extremely attractive to established players, but this would establish a method for brand spanking new players to more rapidly advance to competative skill levels in certain key fields like gunnery without compromising the value of heavily learned players. That's my 2 ISK, anyway.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.04.15 05:45:00 - [26] Edited by: WhitePhantom on 15/04/2007 05:43:02 Edited by: WhitePhantom on 15/04/2007 05:42:51 I actualy made a joke about having a skill to increase the said Queue, but instead of number of skills I think it should be timed based. This was in another thread so I won't repeat myself, but the general idea was that, you could train shorter skills in a small window of time you could take a small period of time. Clearly you wouldn't be able to train skills you didn't have, and only active players could train in this manner. Anyways I don't want anything major, just something I can train till a point I can come and login and play, many people already login just to switch skills ( so why not just allow them to plan till the next time they can actually play ). null Full Post Here You only gain by not having them go out of their way.
Solbright	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Villian Originally by: Solbright I like this one simply because it puts something useful in the Learning section. I think that it would be a good changeup to add in more learning skills. /me punches Villian's lights out!
Solbright	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:35:00 - [28] Originally by: WhitePhantom ... instead of number of skills I think it should be timed based. And the final skill started with-in that period will train to completion I assume? So it allows a number of small skills to be trained before a final large one. Not bad. I could prolly live with that personally. I'd first like to see some proof that the existing training scheme is effective in stunting the farming practice before assuming it will explode with a large skill queue implemented. And also, what is the down side of that happening?
Lesco Amarr Gravis Corp	Posted - 2007.04.15 12:28:00 - [29] Edited by: Lesco on 15/04/2007 12:24:46 Yes I agree with the all of the above, we subscribe to this game, and when we cant get on for any reason you still have your money, so implimenting this would be help us out no end. What was the old saying in customer service "The customer is always right" yes I'm sure I read that somewhere MAY YOUR SHADOW NEVER GROW SHORT!!!!!!!!!
Xortak	Posted - 2007.04.23 07:11:00 - [30] Agreed, this is very much needed for this game. Not for the skills that take long time to complete, but for the short ones. To counter the problem about having a long skill queue lined up for when subscription ends, I suggest a 24 hour queue system that allows you to line up skills much like you would line up tasks in a project manager tool. When you've lined up skills that will last for 24h or more in total, you cannot add more skills to the queue. This way you would at most have to log on once a day for the sole purpose of changing skills. It would have been nice to not having to remember when a skill ends when going about your normal daily activities outside of the game.
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.04.25 05:14:00 - [31] Why does everyone want something that will last for so many skills? I was thinking have a queue of 1 or 2 extra skills. This wont be abused as the training wont last long, and you cant set a whole heck of a lot to train. Everyone seems to be lobbying for a skill to train more skills, but isnt that counterproductive? Call me crazy, but if I could set just ONE skill to train after my current one finishes, I am set. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465618
Solbright	Posted - 2007.04.25 11:11:00 - [32] Because a large queue is useful maybe?
Xortak	Posted - 2007.04.25 11:33:00 - [33] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Why does everyone want something that will last for so many skills? (---) Cause not everyone log on, or even have internet access, as often during the day as you do. That shouldn't hinder them in this otherwise very good game. Besides, it won't give you a disadvantage, so why not?
Melody Dolton	Posted - 2007.04.26 06:05:00 - [34] What is the official stance from the devs on skill queueing? From what I gather it's been on the drawing board for ages and doesn't look like leaving it, what's their reasons for doing this?
Krynn Darkhold	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:22:00 - [35] I would love to see both of these implemented. The idea of having learning skills govern them would be an interesting way to put them in the game too. A skill that the level equals how many skills you could queue up and a skill or skills to govern learning multiple skills at once. I would not expect these to work when accounts were not paid up either.
Yamichi Wiggin Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:35:00 - [36] The only arguments I've heard against skill queues are: 1- CCP wants us to PLAY eve, not just have an account. 2- This would make it easy to farm and sell characters. 3- I'm too busy to switch skills all the time. so... 1- makes sense to me- but most people are requesting a limited skill queue. 2- See number 1. If you can only queue one or two skills, you still have to log in and it wouldn't be that big a deal. I think. 3- lame excuse. every noob has at LEAST one level 4 skill. When you go to work, put a long skill on. If you're offline for a couple weeks, put on Battleship V or something. It's almost impossible to NOT have at least a four days of training on at least ONE skill. as usual (this particular mod comes up ALL THE TIME) I want the queue in place. I want it limited. I think a skill that impacts this queue makes sense as well. Maybe rather than having 2-6 skills queued, you get one skill to queue up. With this queuing skill at level 1, you can queue up a rank 1 or 2. at 2, you can train up to a rank 4. At 3- up to 6. at 4 up to 8. at 5 unlimited skill rank? ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body. There is no love in fear
Solbright	Posted - 2007.04.27 09:15:00 - [37] Yeah, right! What you really want is a skill queue, the bigger the better. The only reason you say you want a small queue is because it's a compromise that you are happy to accommodate. As for the 3 points, one is only meaningful because of two and three doesn't make any sense any way you look at it. So a potential farming explosion is the only reason for restricting the queue size.
namazzip rotatum	Posted - 2007.04.30 20:31:00 - [38] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Why does everyone want something that will last for so many skills? I was thinking have a queue of 1 or 2 extra skills. This wont be abused as the training wont last long, and you cant set a whole heck of a lot to train. Everyone seems to be lobbying for a skill to train more skills, but isnt that counterproductive? Call me crazy, but if I could set just ONE skill to train after my current one finishes, I am set. I second this notion ! And the second skill train at HALF speed, therefore making the queue non-existent but the skills would train simultaneously. If you want to go a step further -- a third skill at 1/3 the speed... You have to face it skills make the character ... we don't want n00bs to necessarily catch up to us Vets too fast -- CCP already gave them like 500k more SP's after the tutorial more than I started with. :) 20.2 mil SP's and rising!
Digital Anarchist	Posted - 2007.04.30 20:44:00 - [39] I endorse the OP. Unlimited skill queue, if possible, PLEASE. Never too large a goal not to aim at.
Freezehunter Gallente Ghoust Force	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:50:00 - [40] I think it is a great idea because it oftenly happens to me to see that a skill finished training at 3 am in my country's time, so ALOT of time wasted.... I like killing stuff...
ursula miner Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:35:00 - [41] Even ONE backup skill traing slot would be a HUGE improvement. CCP...pretty please?
Silpher The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.05.02 03:54:00 - [42] I'm all for a limited queue. As far as an extra skill for it, eh. Doesn't seem all that necissary. Having a limited number of skills set to queue is fair enough without giving the farmers too much help. Farmers are unavoidablable, unfourtunately. You gotta find a compromise, and a limited queue seems like a nice one. 1, 2 or 3 skills for queue is very accaptable. As mentioned above, if you're going to be gone for a few days or weeks, you start out with enough skills at higher levels that are very usefull that setting a queue corisponding to your time away is easily done. Having a queue that allows anymore than even 5 is just overkill, imo Nevertheless /signed
Krynn Darkhold	Posted - 2007.05.02 14:42:00 - [43] Edited by: Krynn Darkhold on 02/05/2007 14:40:36 Edited by: Krynn Darkhold on 02/05/2007 14:38:37 I like the idea of the added simultaneous skills training at a lower rate (and I guess at under 2MSP I am a newbie still LOL) but I also endorse a skill that controls how many skills you can learn simultaneously as well as one that controls how many you could queue up behind the active ones. Here's the thought: Let's say you can get 3 ranks that lets you learn 3 skills at once. second does half normal speed and third does 1/3 normal speed. If you wanted to keep with the 5 level theme then 5 levels equals 5 skills and the speed incrementally drops. Maybe even take 5% off the main skills' speed for each additional skill added simultaneously. Next you can queue up to 5 (1 per level) other skills that are NOT immediately in training. As one skill finishes, say the first/fastest one, the slots move up so the existing training speeds up for the remaining skills. the first skill in the queue goes into the slowest slot. Basically this makes a feeder system. If skill 3 finishes before 1 or two then only 4 and 5 would move up. This way we set the skill queue by a priority and can always manually rearrange them when online. This way if we want the next skill to go to slot 3 instead of 5 we have to manually make that adjustment thus we're logged in. The two skills governing this would be "multitasking" for the multiple at once and... th second could be "advanced planning" or "education scheduling" or something that actually sounds better. Make the multitasking a rank 4-5 and the queue about rank 3 I'd think. int (or perception to mix it up) and willpower for multitasking... int and memory for the queue. Prerequisite Learning 5 Eidetic Memory 4 for the queue Prerequisite Learning 5 Iron Will 4-5 for multitasking Just my .05 ISK :)
Phil Anthrop	Posted - 2007.05.10 23:52:00 - [44] I'd like to be able to log in to a webpage and change what skills i'm learning
Zaru Hechima	Posted - 2007.05.13 15:31:00 - [45] Basically, I don't really care how it's done, but anything which makes it easier to play eve without having to puzzle skill-training into my real life schedule is a huge improvement. That's why I want this feature, and all reasons for it. An just one queue slot is more then enough to make this a virtually non-existent problem.
Ep'ocx Zonn Caldari Mantigen Quanta Ultio Animi Causa	Posted - 2007.05.13 16:21:00 - [46] Edited by: Ep''ocx Zonn on 13/05/2007 16:20:00 Love the idea ... just not to many qued .... maybe 2 skills max .. one your training and one you can que. Create a new Skill Called "Multitasking"
Sieges	Posted - 2007.05.14 00:57:00 - [47] Even one queued skill would be awesome. ----------- We need a way to Repackage and Transport Rigged Ships.
Sareem Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.14 11:58:00 - [48] As an alternative to skill queing, or just as another feature (I bet this has been discussed...), would be some sort of remote management. I mean, either you could manage your skill training trough the eve portal (not just monitor it like in evemon) or trough some mini eve client with basic features like skill managment, eve mail reader and corp chat window... something like that. This wouldn't affect in anyway the subscription issues since it would work just like eve: either you have an active account and you can login, or you don't and you can't login, be it with eve or with the mini eve application (or eve portal). This would be, IMHO, a nice way for people who, like me, are at work but can't take their minds off the game...
tjinsu Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:47:00 - [49] Why just dont make it possible to manage the skilltraining through the character page here on "myeve". You need to have an active account to be able to logon. Making it ppossible you dont need a queue, its just enough that you can start a new skill when the trained skill is finished. During the days i cant logon to the game, and i'm not that fond of just pick a long skill to not loose skilltime. On the other hand i'm just a noob, so how should I know?!
FissioNius F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.16 07:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Trovax I was in the Army a while ago, but when i went away on op's this would have been very handy, especially as i was still paying for my subscription during this time. Same reason here. I'm in the Navy, and as long as I use auto-billing to credit card, I need the ability to have several months of skills queued. Otherwise, once an extended deployment comes up, it would be pointless to continue paying for Eve
Lenus Daragio coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.16 23:21:00 - [51] A large queue may be useful, but leaves room for exploits via unsubscribe tactics. If a queue system is to be put in place, is should only allow you to queue up one skill after your current skill finishes so you don't lose training time, and also so you don't have to worry about switching skills all the time. Just queue up after your short skill, and have a long skill waiting after that. That way when you log back on the next day, your short skill won't take you longer than a day where it could normally take 3-5 depending on how long your sessions are. = __________________________________________________
Annalise	Posted - 2007.05.17 13:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Lenus Daragio A large queue may be useful, but leaves room for exploits via unsubscribe tactics.= Not really, it would be easy enough as already discussed for CCP to counter this by checking for current subscription before continuing skill training. Originally by: Lenus Daragio If a queue system is to be put in place, is should only allow you to queue up one skill after your current skill finishes so you don't lose training time, and also so you don't have to worry about switching skills all the time. Just queue up after your short skill, and have a long skill waiting after that. That way when you log back on the next day, your short skill won't take you longer than a day where it could normally take 3-5 depending on how long your sessions are. = Well in that case, why not just pick a long skill in the first place to train? There's no argument at all for a short queue other than the 'exploit' issue, which is easily sidestepped. Personally I think the whole thing would be improved by giving us the ability to change skills via the Eve website. No queues to mess about with, no complicated 'extra skills' to train (there's enough as it is!) and accessible anywhere. As for training more than one skill at a time, unless there's a time penalty that equals the combined successive training time of those skills, CCP will never allow it due to the following formula: - Skill training = Time = Money for CCP
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:25:00 - [53] Paying Subscription + not logging in = good business Website managed skill training!! Good for everyone. Require active subscription to use the feature.
Mala Kai Aliastra	Posted - 2007.05.17 19:56:00 - [54] As for every time this idTa has come up since I started playing a few years ago, this is still a TERRIBLE idTa.. Why? Because the reason why CCP has not yet implemented it is cus they WANT YOU TO PLAY THE GAME!!! Line up your cue, log off, come back a few months later and line up a few more and not play it until you have the number of skills you feel you want.. What you are forgetting is that the skill system is actually a great of controlling players progression through the game.. I would not switch the current skill system for anything, it gives a unique feeling of accomplishment every time a skill finishes.. I still remember my first Lvl 5, and that feeling is one of the reasons i still love EVE after all other online games has been un-installed from my HD.. EVE requires a real effort, make sure it stays that way.. If you want things for free and without any effort then go play something else.. A skill queue would be slow death for EVE.
Solbright alt	Posted - 2007.05.17 22:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Mala Kai Because the reason why CCP has not yet implemented it is cus they WANT YOU TO PLAY THE GAME!!! Line up your cue, log off, come back a few months later and line up a few more and not play it until you have the number of skills you feel you want.. That would happen for alts and farmers only. In fact it does already. So no change there. No one in their right mind is going to start Eve new and not play it. All I can say is that's a pretty broken argument.
Kher'Aleer Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Zaru Hechima Basically, I don't really care how it's done, but anything which makes it easier to play eve without having to puzzle skill-training into my real life schedule is a huge improvement. That's why I want this feature, and all reasons for it. An just one queue slot is more then enough to make this a virtually non-existent problem. Well put. My thoughts exactly. Now, ccp, give it already, m'kay?!
vurtal	Posted - 2007.05.18 04:44:00 - [57] /voted for Even if you couldn't queue up a skill, and the next one was randomly determined, that'd still be GREAT. At the very least, it isn't lost time.
Fentus	Posted - 2007.05.20 08:11:00 - [58] Edited by: Fentus on 20/05/2007 08:10:11 YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS plz I lose so much time I have so much going I have no time to do any of my low time skills they finsh then I sit untraining for hours at a time I've probly lost few days bye now. I would love to see queueed up skills! Note: I also see the advantage of haveng this type of skilling because macroers have no power over fast skilling. But macrower also have there skill switching macroed out giving them more EXP then others on the game another unfair advandated to not haveing queue. It basicly all comes back to CHEATERS they get all the advantages so beat em at there own game. Make a queue skill list. Just keepin it real while keeping the game play fun.
Jack Forge Gallente Prox XII Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:39:00 - [59] Originally by: Emylissan I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk. solution - no SP are added when account is not 'active' as in paid for. and limited # of queue slots, (like 1-2) imho it doesn't matter either way but having this for shorter skills would be nice i suppose... __________________________________________________ Stupid is as stupid does...
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.21 21:43:00 - [60] I'm with Fentus, I've got a lot of shorter skills, and I can't ever find three hours to train them, I'm always chugging on big skills because I need at least 11 hours at a time. I'd like to be able to have it do the short one, then go back to my big one without me having to choose between waking up in the middle of the night or losing 5 hours of training on a three hour skill.
Solbright alt	Posted - 2007.05.21 21:53:00 - [61] That one is a simple, leave it the way it already is. The training ceases when the current skill is completed. The remaining queue would stay pending until the account is active again.
Lance Brute	Posted - 2007.05.22 18:21:00 - [62] /signed!! This would work wonders on the short skills that take up about an hour each and are a pain to change constantly
Fryke Caldari CRESCENT Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.24 00:07:00 - [63] Edited by: Fryke on 24/05/2007 00:09:08 A limited number of queue slots, like 3 or less would be nice. But anything over that would just create inflation on character selling. (There currently are a lot of players with more then just 1 account.) Also, regardless of the queue newer players will always have less skill points than the older players. Just my 2 iskies.
Yllania	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:58:00 - [64] Edited by: Yllania on 25/05/2007 14:56:56 /signed, a skill queue is very very good idea :p
Solbright alt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:09:00 - [65] Originally by: Fryke A limited number of queue slots, like 3 or less would be nice. But anything over that would just create inflation on character selling. Deflation I think you ment. At any rate I'd like to see that that would cause a real problem. People still have to pay up real money to do that training.
Solbright alt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:12:00 - [66] And a 3 deep queue will be a big win for the farmers if you are right. So, a 100 deep queue won't really be any different except for those that need it.
Myrania Gallente BloodStorm Elite Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:49:00 - [67] just my 2 isk... I think skill queuing would be a great idea. But to make it 'balanced' and too add some sort of a timesink, skill training should be implemented as a skill. For example, have a skill called "Study Plan"(rank 4). Each level would allow for 1 additional skill queued. Then to add an incentive, have another skill called "Study Plan Optimization" (rank 8 or 12) which could give a small bonus to have fast queued skills train (1 or 2 percent per level). The reason i would suggest such a high rank for the "Study Plan Optimization" skill is so that new players do not have super quick access to advanced their too fast at the beginning. "Study Plan" would require Learning 5, and "Study Plan Optimization" would require "Study Plan" 3 or 4. From the developers/CCP point of view, I would definitely check to see if the person is an active subscriber before the next skill in the queue starts. This would benefit CCP to make sure people don't queue a lot of long skills and not have to pay for the time. Just a quick idea I came up with at work. Please comment or make suggestions.
Solbright alt	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:48:00 - [68] Originally by: Myrania Just a quick idea I came up with at work. Please comment or make suggestions. Yep, works for me except for the pointless Optimization skill. All regurgitated though, even from this thread.
Killer Raccoon	Posted - 2007.06.04 06:21:00 - [69] I am surprised there are this little posts on this thread I agree with this idea. At this very moment i am about to go to bed thinking, "this sucks, im gonna have to wake up in an hour and a half if i want to get that skill i need training. ****." With this, I wont have to choose either waking up at midnight, or losing 7 hrs training. Please look into this, CCP. Im sure all of us EVE fans sould appreciate it.
Solbright alt	Posted - 2007.06.04 11:29:00 - [70] Originally by: Killer Raccoon Please look into this, CCP. Im sure all of us EVE fans sould appreciate it. It's a feature that has been repeatedly asked for since Eve was first launched. The moment one thread dies another one pops up in it's place because someone that hasn't read about it already thinks it's a good idea. You'd almost think it was a good idea wouldn't ya? If the forum search worked you could look back through them all.
Acacia Everto	Posted - 2007.06.04 19:42:00 - [71] Personally, I think a limited queue is an excellent idea. Why? Because I don't always want to train a longer skill at night. Sometimes I need to get 2-3 skills up from level 1 -> 2 or so, and while asleep I can't get up to switch it every hour or two. The multiple learning idea isn't bad, for when you're leaving on a trip of two weeks or so, you could put two or three skills together. The number of skills being n, r being the skill's normal sp/hour rate it would train at (r/n) + (r/n) + (r/n), effectively adding the training time together and letting them complete at the same time. On the other hand, I'd be doing this a lot even when online, so perhaps it's not such a great idea. But a limited queue would be great.
Solbright alt	Posted - 2007.06.04 22:20:00 - [72] Originally by: Acacia Everto On the other hand, I'd be doing this a lot even when online, so perhaps it's not such a great idea. Good to see you thought about it a little. Quote: But a limited queue would be great. And why not unlimited?
Lord Xavius	Posted - 2007.06.05 09:58:00 - [73] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Why does everyone want something that will last for so many skills? I was thinking have a queue of 1 or 2 extra skills. This wont be abused as the training wont last long, and you cant set a whole heck of a lot to train. Everyone seems to be lobbying for a skill to train more skills, but isnt that counterproductive? Call me crazy, but if I could set just ONE skill to train after my current one finishes, I am set. Word on this, people just get greedy when they hear an idea. 1 more skill would be perfect, would solve the problem of staying up a few more hours on some nights because of some skill :P Getting a huge queue would simply make it too easy.
Solbright alt	Posted - 2007.06.05 14:17:00 - [74] Huh? Greedy? For the menial function of changing skills? Why the reluctance? It's not like a skill queue impacts on gameplay. Have you considered that some people can't get online each and every day? It's almost like you wish undue harm on others.
CmdDesaster Marquie-X Corp	Posted - 2007.06.05 14:43:00 - [75] /signed
Eleana Tomelac Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.05 15:21:00 - [76] Originally by: Solbright alt Huh? Greedy? For the menial function of changing skills? Why the reluctance? It's not like a skill queue impacts on gameplay. Have you considered that some people can't get online each and every day? It's almost like you wish undue harm on others. Nolifers wish harm to people with a life, it's a known fact! In fact, they envy those having a life in secret! Now, if we add a skill queue, nolifers won't have the "my skill finishes in 2 hours" excuse anymore, they will set the queue and learn more about the real life. For the people with a real life, they will no more have the irritating knowledge that their skill finishes during their worktime/party/holidays far away/jogging and they had no other (with the right lenght) to put instead (believe me, it happens if you want to stay focused on a goal or when away for a long time), and they can continue having a life. Now, I stop fooling around... Who des it hurt to have a skill queue, even an unlimited one? Account cancelled? Cancel the skill training when the login right is cancelled. Army calls you? You're going several month away, don't worry about skills, unless you stop paying your account, your long thought world domination evil plan (or thys your dream about flying a carrier?) will go on while you're away. Ha, someone not playing and getting skills? Is that wrong? What is the difference between people spending much time playing and the others? -ISK, you won't get to your goal without, no isk, no ship, no module, nothing more than when you left, but you can use much more stuff, you'll just feel poor when you see all the stuff to buy when you come back! -Fame, while you're away, the community forgets about all those things you did that made you so famous (or not). When you come back, you can fly a titan, but which alliance will lend you one, you have to prove worthy before! -New skills, well, maybe the queue only includes already known skills (and avoiding errors like setting the queue then moving the character away from the book)? -Fun, not playing for a long time is not fun AT ALL! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Happy owner of a Vexor Navy Issue and few ishkurs. The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
Mazzer PhoDizazzer	Posted - 2007.06.12 11:57:00 - [77] I constantly run into the problem that I only have several hours in a given day that I can even think about logging into Eve. I really like the idea of a queue system, but I also think that it should be exposed online. This would increase the opportunities I have to participate in my Eve character development, and depending on how the Eve database system is deployed, may also make it possible to change skills while the server is down.
Lux Simian	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:15:00 - [78] Just allow a skill queue of two, Primary and secondary. When the primary skill expires, it automatically defaults to the secondary. Then when you log back in you get the message the primary has completed, and you select your new skill, or promote the secondary (and choose a new one). That way farming isn't particually enhanced, but I don't end up getting up a 4am to stagger downstairs like a Romero reject to try and work out which Skill I was going to switch to... Yeah I know I'm sad, but sometimes you just want to train a level 1 to 2 for the next day, but can't because its 3 hours, but you don't have 3 hours during in the evening to train that skill either!
Necrosmith Gallente Excellence In Business Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:24:00 - [79] /signed Best Regards, --Necro ------------- "Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both."
Fryke Caldari CRESCENT Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.14 20:22:00 - [80] Originally by: Lux Simian Just allow a skill queue of two, Primary and secondary. When the primary skill expires, it automatically defaults to the secondary. Then when you log back in you get the message the primary has completed, and you select your new skill, or promote the secondary (and choose a new one). That way farming isn't particually enhanced, but I don't end up getting up a 4am to stagger downstairs like a Romero reject to try and work out which Skill I was going to switch to... Yeah I know I'm sad, but sometimes you just want to train a level 1 to 2 for the next day, but can't because its 3 hours, but you don't have 3 hours during in the evening to train that skill either! signed
Solbright altaltalt	Posted - 2007.06.14 23:16:00 - [81] You're a bunch of spineless weasels! You only say you want a queue of one because you think it's what CCP will accept. And btw, a queue of two gives you two pending skills.
Harkwyth Mist Caldari The Black Ops	Posted - 2007.06.16 04:59:00 - [82] Another possible option is to select a skill for "continous training" eg You load xyzrace Battleship and start training from 0sp and tick an option box at the end of the skillname, then goto bed/work/school as normal. When Level 1 has completed, Level 2 starts automatically, then 3, then 4 and if left long enough level 5. Although its a limited queuing system, it's still a useful and viable one, anyway I'll wait and see what CCP implement as thier improved training mechanism over the coming patches/updates.
Solbright altaltalt	Posted - 2007.06.16 12:44:00 - [83] Many thanks to Dragonrazor for seeding a very good solution to concern of character farming - Charge ISK The idea is to have a deep queue at our disposal but the fuller it is the more ISK that is charged to add a new skill to the queue. Dragonrazor's idea was for the skill size to be the deciding factor but that would penalise single stage usage just as much as those that fill it right up.
Solbright altaltalt	Posted - 2007.06.16 13:48:00 - [84] A couple of pricings come to mind for a queue capacity of ten, one being based purely on the queue position while the other is a combo of skill size and queue position: Option one: 0 - Skill currently in training 1 - First queued skill - no charge 2 - 200,000 ISK 3 - 500,000 ISK 4 - 1,000,000 ISK 5 - 2,000,000 ISK 6 - 3,000,000 ISK 7 - 4,000,000 ISK 8 - 5,000,000 ISK 9 - 6,000,000 ISK 10 - 7,000,000 ISK Option two: 0 - Skill currently in training 1 - First queued skill - no charge 2 - (skill size + 20,000) ISK 3 - (skill size + 50,000) ISK 4 - (skill size + 100,000) ISK 5 - (skill size + 200,000) ISK 6 - (skill size + 500,000) ISK 7 - (skill size + 1,000,000) ISK 8 - (skill size + 2,000,000) ISK 9 - (skill size + 3,000,000) ISK 10 - (skill size + 4,000,000) ISK NOTE: "skill size" is the number of skill points to be trained on a particular skill to raise it up the appropriate level.
Gno Chalynn	Posted - 2007.06.16 14:44:00 - [85] Originally by: Gno Chalynn Edited by: Gno Chalynn on 14/06/2007 02:23:27 3 skills to allow training a skill cue. 1. Redundant training - Level: The ability to have a skill in training after the current skill is finished. Each level allows that level of skill to be trained. eg. training to level 4, allows skills to be trained from level 3 to level 4. 2. Redundant training - Time: The length of time a skill cue will last. Level 1 = 12 hours, Level 2 = 24 hours, (1 day) Level 3 = 48 hours, (2 days) Level 4 = 96 hours, (4 days) Level 5 = 192 hours. (8 days) 3. Redundant training - Skill Cue: The ability to have more than one skill waiting to be trained. Each level allows 3 skills to be added to the cue. All skills must BEGIN within the skill training time. This would allow the level 1, 2, & 3 skills to be put in a cue, and a few level 4's, but only 1 level 5 could be put in at the end. Your training stops when you account go unpaid. I like the idea of ISK charge for the number of skill points gained. 5 million skill points = 5 mil ISK.
Anjinsan3739 Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:45:00 - [86] I have been playing since NovÆ05, and the one thing I hate is time wasted on skills completing when I canÆt log in to choose another one. With that said I can begin: 1.CCP is a business and as such they probably would need some type of assurance that so many people log in a day, week, month, quarter for some type of business planning and forecasting. 2.With a skill queue, a long time player could set it up and never log in for 6 months. The game would change along the way, and the player would come back to a new, unfamiliar game environment. This in turn would lead to complaints and petitions and eventually the player might quit. 3.As the game changes, new skills, ships, mods would change the priority of needed skills. Therefore, a long skill queue is meaningless. I hate having a skill that finishes at 1pm while I am at work. If I get home at 6 pm, that is five wasted hours. Like everyone else micro managing their skills, I time out when a skill finishes and substitute longer skills until the appropriate timing of EVE play and Real Life coincide. I propose a skill queue for skills under taking less then 24 hours to complete. I would be able to queue up to 3 skills needing less than 24 hours to complete. The maximum I could go without logging in to my account with the queue full is (23h:59m:59s X 3) 71h:59m:57s. This would eliminate the need to micro-manage skills finishing up during a time when the player would not be able to log on to set another skill. It would also ensure that players donÆt ôdisappearö for six months. I think this would be a good compromise from a player/customer perspective. ~Anjin [url=shiva-corp.com/kb?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=933] [/url]
solbright altaltalt	Posted - 2007.06.29 16:33:00 - [87] Originally by: Anjinsan3739 1.CCP is a business and as such they probably would need some type of assurance that so many people log in a day, week, month, quarter for some type of business planning and forecasting. Wild speculation on your part and very unlikely on their part. Sure, the number of pilots online is a valid measure but using skill changes as a tool to increase that number is very false and wouldn't last. The real staying power in Eve lies elsewhere and CCP know that. There is some very smart thinkers at the top. Quote: 2.With a skill queue, a long time player could set it up and never log in for 6 months. The game would change along the way, and the player would come back to a new, unfamiliar game environment. This in turn would lead to complaints and petitions and eventually the player might quit. Six months is stretching it even by my standards but yep, if that's what someone wants to use their paid account for then that's fine by me. And with the ISK charging scheme in place it would be a decent price tag also. The complaints idea is a wierd one. You've outdone the best of them this time. I don't get your point at all. Quote: 3.As the game changes, new skills, ships, mods would change the priority of needed skills. Therefore, a long skill queue is meaningless. Ditto. Don't get the point. Quote: I propose a skill queue for skills under taking less then 24 hours to complete. I would be able to queue up to 3 skills needing less than 24 hours to complete. The maximum I could go without logging in to my account with the queue full is (23h:59m:59s X 3) 71h:59m:57s. Rather narrow minded and still helps the farmers heaps.
Davos Breemer	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:14:00 - [88] 1. CCP is a business. They need to have an income. If your subscription goes unpaid then your queue stops. That ends any possibility of people setting up 12 months of training and then cancelling the subscription. 2. I have no idea why people are concerned about it helping the farmers. The farmers are still going to be there. The only difference will be that they don't need to log on to continue the progress of their skills. In other words it won't make any difference at all because they will be logged on to farm. 3. Although I would like to see an unlimited queueing system I think one introduced through the Learning Skills would be more in line of the games concepts. Two skills suggested - one to actually allow you to set a queue and one to allow you to train skills simultaneously. The second skill can be done without but it would be nice to have some shorter skills training alongside a long one.
solbright altaltalt	Posted - 2007.06.29 18:14:00 - [89] Originally by: Davos Breemer In other words it won't make any difference at all because they will be logged on to farm. Uhmm, no, the farming being referred to is character farming. Not much logging in at all. Some dude pays up for a year's sub and a GTC for a set of skills, then trains the character up, then sells it for hard cash at a profit. Counting on willing players that are happy to pay the extra to get a better starting character.
Sunborne	Posted - 2007.06.30 12:18:00 - [90] Edited by: Sunborne on 30/06/2007 12:25:30 I think a 24h queue is badly needed. I hate to loose training time because the server will start later than scheduled. I don't accuse anybody of not doing his job. Problems appear. But with a 24h queue this issue would never be a problem, for crying out loud. Is the fear of 100 character farmers so horrible that the request of at least 5000 be ignored?
Rayokashi The Phoenix Rising	Posted - 2007.06.30 15:16:00 - [91] CCP, support your casual players and give us skill queue, please. One or two in queue would do it!
CypherDragon Amarr Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2007.06.30 20:27:00 - [92] I rather like the idea of a semi-limited skill que mentioned elsewhere in this thread. You can que up as many skills as you like, so long as they all start within 24 hours. You want to put in 24 1-hour long skills? Sure, no problem...so long as they already appear on your char sheet (no auto-adding of skillbooks, even if they are in your hanger). 23 1-hour long skills followed by one of the ultra-long skills (like BS 5)? Again, no problem...but you can't use the que again until after that long skill completes, or you clear it from the que. While it may help char farmers some to put in a que system, it won't actually effect them much. Think about it, a person that farms SP for money would have some system in place (even if it's hiring someone to log in every couple of hours) to make absolutely sure that there's no wasted training time, hence maximizing their profit margin. The only people this would help significantly are the actual players, not the farmers! Not implementing something that would help the average player because it might be open to abuse by those that are willing to break the TOS and EULA (and that already have a work-around for it probably) is just stupid. Why punish the honest players because of the few that break the rules?
Danji Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.07.06 15:27:00 - [93] Edited by: Danji on 06/07/2007 15:27:42 What about adding a new skill that adds 1 skill queue slot per level trained? Doing this would provide a limited queue and higher level users have the benefit of long time continued play, and new users are encouraged to play more. Start with one slot in queue. Add one slot per skill level trained, you have a max of six slots. Then you could even edit the skills system for higher level skills to require multiple slots in your queue which would limit the amount of massive pre-queuing. Throw in some checking to ensure that only the currently training skill trains to completion if the account isn't paid up, but that the queue will automatically resume once the account is re-activated and you have the makings of one hell of a skill/training system with built in fail safes, multi-tiered needs, self promotion and more. Ah, now I'm day dreaming again. _ [EDIT: Grammar & Spilling fixes.] ----- The Force is a force of course, of course...
Shiodome	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:27:00 - [94] /signed though i don't think there's any need for the skill queue to be any more than one or two skills long. if you're away from the game so long that you can't find 2 skills to fill the time you're away... then you're probably away for at least a month, in which time you should be taking a payment holiday and can't really complain if EVE doesn't queue skills while you're not paying. not very clear, but basically - i vote for a skill queue limited to scheduling no more than 2 skills ahead.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:55:00 - [95] 24h skill queue would be the best solution hands down. Think about it - it's much better for small 30min or 1h30min skills than a dual skill queue. And it isn't exploitable. No need to implement extra checks or any exception handling. _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. -
Horace Harkness	Posted - 2007.07.12 19:56:00 - [96] I responded to the original post but am no longer on this thread. Could a mod drop me a line and let me know why I was removed (so I don't do it again)? Thanks.
solbright altaltalt Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:49:00 - [97] Originally by: Tarron Sarek And it isn't exploitable. No need to implement extra checks or any exception handling. That is exploitable for farming. Assuming farming is a real concern then charging ISK is prolly the best defense against it. And once that's done there is no reason to do a proper job of the queue.
La Jefature	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:07:00 - [98] You are all still worried about farmers? CCP could implement a system where you have to set your training skill every hour, and the farmers would still be there! You can have a 2 skill queue, or a 100000 skill queue, and the farmers will still be there. There is no reason NOT to implement a 1-2 skill queue in the game. Farmers will still be farmers, but this change will help literally THOUSANDS of players. Even the people against the queue idea would use the queue because it is a practical idea. I say CCP is just being lazy in NOT implementing something like this. Something that will help all of its players (I dare you to name 1 player that would not use this idea), and not really make any difference at all on farmers is something that has to be implemented. Also, CCP should stop skill leveling as soon as an account stops paying! it makes no sense at all. It's like getting cable TV, cancelling it, but you will still get cable until you change the channel. It's dumb.
Firestreak	Posted - 2007.07.13 05:04:00 - [99] Originally by: solbright altaltalt Originally by: Tarron Sarek And it isn't exploitable. No need to implement extra checks or any exception handling. That is exploitable for farming. I think that the huge amount of love received from the players will overcompensate any dark fears related to farmers. CCP we need the 24h queue. Please. Pretty please?!
Solbright	Posted - 2007.07.13 08:07:00 - [100] You guys have seriously missed my point. A decent queue length is way better than a 1+1 or 24 hours.
Solbright	Posted - 2007.07.13 08:13:00 - [101] Originally by: La Jefature Also, CCP should stop skill leveling as soon as an account stops paying! That's a goodwill bonus. It makes no difference to any queuing system. Stop whining.
Solbright	Posted - 2007.07.13 08:23:00 - [102] Originally by: solbright altaltalt Assuming farming is a real concern then charging ISK is prolly the best defense against it. And once that's done there is no reason to do a proper job of the queue. Oops missed a word out, that was meant to read - "And once that's done there is no reason not to do a proper job of the queue."
Firestreak	Posted - 2007.07.13 10:08:00 - [103] Edited by: Firestreak on 13/07/2007 10:10:20 Originally by: Solbright You guys have seriously missed my point. A decent queue length is way better than a 1+1 or 24 hours. Yeah, but since I don't see the farming problem being resolved any time soon, I settle for the 24h queue that will help good players quite a lot, while not making the job much more easier for the farmers. And I wouldn't like to pay for queuing more skills. I'm already doing that by keeping my subscription.
Solbright	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:18:00 - [104] Edited by: Solbright on 13/07/2007 11:24:19 What!? First you say farming is not a problem now you it is? And as I said earlier, the 24 hour queue will help the farmers plenty. All they have to do is line up a bunch of short skills, exactly the same way you plan to, then put a long skill for the final one. Presto!, perfect farming setup.
Solbright	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:33:00 - [105] Originally by: Horace Harkness I responded to the original post but am no longer on this thread. Maybe this thread? Queuing threads are a regular thing in this forum. :/
Firestreak	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:51:00 - [106] Edited by: Firestreak on 13/07/2007 11:53:12 Originally by: Solbright What!? First you say farming is not a problem now you it is? Well, then I didn't make myself understood. I DO think farming is a problem. But let's not argue off-topic.
La Jefature	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:09:00 - [107] Originally by: Solbright Originally by: La Jefature Also, CCP should stop skill leveling as soon as an account stops paying! That's a goodwill bonus. It makes no difference to any queuing system. Stop whining. Its not a whine. I'm actually suggesting they remove this goodwill bonus, if this bonus is a reason against implementing a queue system. I'm impartial to this weird "bonus".
Solbright	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:21:00 - [108] Originally by: La Jefature Its not a whine. I'm actually suggesting they remove this goodwill bonus, if this bonus is a reason against implementing a queue system. I'm impartial to this weird "bonus". Ah, see, need to make your point. :) It never was a valid reason except for some loons that made it up. There is nothing stopping that bonus from co-existing with a queue. Please read earlier posts in this thread.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.13 16:52:00 - [109] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 13/07/2007 16:56:08 Originally by: Solbright All they have to do is line up a bunch of short skills, exactly the same way you plan to, then put a long skill for the final one. Presto!, perfect farming setup. No. The way I meant it all queued up skills would have to end inside the 24h period. Up to 24h of training, not beyond. Quite easy to implement: - If the first/current skill takes longer than 24h - no queuing is possible. - If the first/current skill takes less than 24h - the difference can be filled up with other skills Example: You start to train a 6h skill (those are the ones I hate the most). But you've only got 4h of playtime that evening. So you add another 6h skill and three 2h30m skills. Totalling 19,5h. Now you could add another 4h skill or just leave it at that. You can't add a 20d skill, since that'll exceed the 24h limit. Well I guess that should be clear now. The way I see it there are two major concepts, both with different advantages and disadvantages. The 24h queue helps new players the most. They have many new and small skills to learn and queuing them up would help them greatly. The dual training queue, probably favoured by CCP, also helps new players, but not as much. It's rather the better choice for older players, who have already learned most low ranking and basic skills and once in a while add a new one. Most of the time they learn high ranking lvl 4 or 5 skills and the dual queue helps them sneak in a new low lvl one. As I already mentioned I'd favour the 24h queue, because it helps with the core problem - short training times and skills that run out either too soon for the next day or too late for the same day. A skill queue isn't meant for making training in EVE generally easier. If CCP wanted that, they would have done it already. As a matter of fact they want you to play the game. Actually the dual training queue would cover that even better than the 24h queue, because the slots are limited to 2, but the problem I see with it is the option to queue two long skills, which pretty much defeats the purpose of it and makes training generally easier. If CCP could think up a way to limit the dual queue to one long and one short or two short skills, I'd give it my vote. Otherwise I have to say no thanks. Making things generally easier (as opposed to ease of use or usability) isn't the way to go. _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. -
La Jefature	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:21:00 - [110] Originally by: Solbright Originally by: La Jefature Its not a whine. I'm actually suggesting they remove this goodwill bonus, if this bonus is a reason against implementing a queue system. I'm impartial to this weird "bonus". Ah, see, need to make your point. :) It never was a valid reason except for some loons that made it up. There is nothing stopping that bonus from co-existing with a queue. Please read earlier posts in this thread. Ah, my apologies Solbright. I did not realize you are one of the game developers and know for certain that this is not a valid reason to stop the queue implementation. oh wait... you are not. We are all speculating here. No one in this post is a game developer. We all simply love the game and want to make it better. You are free to speculate all you want with the rest of us, but allow me to speculate as well. If you think it is a bad idea removing the feature that allows you to train on an unpaid account just say so. My opinion remains that if (speculative) this feature is in any way and for any reason stopping a queue from being implemented, then it should be removed. See? just an opinion, and speculative like all other posts here.
aldarrin	Posted - 2007.07.13 21:27:00 - [111] I rather like the idea of skill queuing. I quit Everquest 2 to play this game because every time my unit went to the field I lost nearly all of my EQ2 buddies. They were 5 / 10 levels ahead of me by the time I got a chance to log in. Realtime training has let me more or less keep pace with my peers ability-wise, if not isk wise. Eventually, I'm going to be deployed and I'd rather not lose 12 to 15 months of training time.
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.07.14 10:39:00 - [112] Originally by: La Jefature It never was a valid reason except for some loons that made it up. There is nothing stopping that bonus from co-existing with a queue. Please read earlier posts in this thread. Ah, my apologies Solbright. I did not realize you are one of the game developers and know for certain that this is not a valid reason to stop the queue implementation. oh wait... you are not. And neither were the ones you've picked up such a crazy idea from. Fear and guilt don't get you very far.
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.07.14 10:42:00 - [113] Originally by: Tarron Sarek A skill queue isn't meant for making training in EVE generally easier. If CCP wanted that, they would have done it already. As a matter of fact they want you to play the game. And now we come your point. I'll repeat my argument: The excuse of a non-queue encouraging active use and longevity is just bogus. If Eve really needed that to keep people interested Eve would not exist today. This game has far better qualities that keep people coming back other than that next skill change.
La Jefature	Posted - 2007.07.14 14:30:00 - [114] Originally by: Solbright Edited by: Solbright on 14/07/2007 10:46:33 Originally by: La Jefature Originally by: Solbright [It never was a valid reason except for some loons that made it up. There is nothing stopping that bonus from co-existing with a queue. Please read earlier posts in this thread. Ah, my apologies Solbright. I did not realize you are one of the game developers and know for certain that this is not a valid reason to stop the queue implementation. oh wait... you are not. And neither were the ones you've picked up such a crazy idea from. Fear and guilt don't get you very far. What were we fighting over again? Either way, whatever. You do agree with the queue idea, that is good enough for me.
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.07.17 09:10:00 - [115] Good example for me today, the 2 hours early DT meant I attempted login 5 minutes too late for my last skill change before account expires. So I miss out on the bonus skill training time now. :(
Neo Harald Viziam	Posted - 2007.07.26 09:39:00 - [116] I support this skill queue idea 100% and would be amazing to have it. It would be as great as the introduction of "Warp to 0" feature.
Johnfromshipping Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:39:00 - [117] A limited skill queue would be great.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:56:00 - [118] People need to start reading the entire thread before they reply to somebody, because I saw the same idea of a 24 Queue be suggesed multiple times. Which is sort of pointless because after my first 4 months, I don't really have any skill less then 24 hours besides the skills I cannot train. They are all 24+ hour skills most almost an entire week. For myself I think a Skill Queue to be worth awhile, I want people to stop being able to train their skills on an inactive account. At that point I would say a Queue of any 2 skills, as long as the account as active, could take as long as you wanted. Which means if you want to train where you have 3 skills that will take 90 days to complete. 1 Training + 2 Queue Skills I would be fine with it. Otherwise I don't support a Skill Queue if people continue to train skills without first giving CCP money. Because I would gather most would love to be able to train multiple skills and not have to pay for it. There is no reason for you to be able to train a skill, after your account is inactive, because in any other game you wouldn't be able to play the game to train your character.
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:35:00 - [119] Originally by: WhitePhantom ... I don't support a Skill Queue if people continue to train skills without first giving CCP money. Because I would gather most would love to be able to train multiple skills and not have to pay for it. It's hardly worth addressing. Requests for free training time are just stupid.
Kudaro	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:25:00 - [120] No skill query! Keep the skill training system the exact way it is. Please. Thank you.
Real Poison Minmatar Mutually Assured Destruction	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:04:00 - [121] just posting to add my vote ;) i'd be fine even with the feature to have the ability to select just ONE backup skill. that would be useful for going on holidays or even for overnight skilling. e.g. shortly before logging in the evening you have a skill that still needs 2hrs. you have to cancel that one and start one with longer training time and have to switch back and forth next time you log in. sooo stupid. especially if the skill you can't finish is a learning skill that would reduce training time of the next one. and i'm sure you could add a vote for every single subscriber you have ccp. just open up a thread where people can vote against it. but i doubt anyone would do
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.28 04:17:00 - [122] Originally by: Real Poison i'd be fine even with the feature to have the ability to select just ONE backup skill. that would be useful for going on holidays or even for overnight skilling. And a large queue would be even better. :)
largewhereitcounts	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:46:00 - [123] As long as this queue didn't activate when your subscription is not paid for this might be a good idea.
Belmarduk	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:33:00 - [124] I vote for a skill-queue I would like it implemented soon !!!!
Falcon Wolfe	Posted - 2007.08.01 22:44:00 - [125] Well I have to say that the idea is a fairly commonly suggested one, and what I would like to see more than a new system for lining up all your skills would be to simply continue the current skill once you've started training it until it reaches lvl 5. That would make life at the beginning of the game much easier, since so many skills are like 3 minutes or so. It would also be a piece of cake to be added into the game. ------------------------------------ (\__/) (+'.'+) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.02 00:35:00 - [126] Originally by: Falcon Wolfe ... and what I would like to see more than a new system for lining up all your skills would be to simply continue the current skill once you've started training it until it reaches lvl 5. Two problems there: - There is no buffer zone when approaching the end of level 5. A real queue solves this by allowing the queuing of new skills while still training the level 5 skill. - Farmers will love it too. Still need to add a penalty to discourage them.
Laser Wolf	Posted - 2007.08.02 02:15:00 - [127] I'd love to have a queue, but there would have to be a limit (say, only 3 or 5 skills queueable) and here's why...it may have been mentioned earlier too... You could queue up about 12M worth of skillpoints on an alt, let him camp in Jita in his starter ship for a year or so, while you keep playing with your main, and sink 150M isk into a 30 day GTC for the alt if you ever need to go over and check on him/learn new skillbooks/etc. Or, hell, just wait until CCP opens a free resub period, they do it for every new publish, which is about 1 per year...I'd imagine you'd only need to do that maybe 3 times after the trial ran out. So you could basically, for 450M isk, auto-train a 1B+ account which you could sell, or just train up an industrial alt...and there'd be absolutely no reason everyone couldnt do this. Actually it'd probably just crash the market for alt accounts....
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.02 10:20:00 - [128] Originally by: Laser Wolf I'd love to have a queue, but there would have to be a limit (say, only 3 or 5 skills queueable) and here's why...it may have been mentioned earlier too... [Huge farming writeup] Farmers are helped by any and all methods listed in this thread so there is three options: - No change at all. Leave training the way it is. - Don't care that farming happens. After all, farming is already happening with no queue at all. - Or add something that punishes the farmers for using the queue. And that something is charging ISK for loading it up.
Brikks	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:12:00 - [129] I would be happy with just the ability to queue a single skill. I'm new to the game and can tell you this is a complaint I have with the game. I try to plan skills to finish when I'm home or when I first get up. Twice in the last month however my skill has finished during a server outage that didn't come back up on time. My new solution is just pick a long skill 3+ days to train at night and not mess with it until I'm off work and then I'll switch it back to a lesser time skill. I don't think having the ability to queue a single skill would alter the game play one way or another, it would just prevent dead times of not training.
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.03 00:20:00 - [130] Originally by: Brikks I don't think having the ability to queue a single skill would alter the game play one way or another, it would just prevent dead times of not training. Wimp! I hope you realise that now is the time to ask for what you'd like to have. Not just what you think might be acceptable.
Kyusoath Orillian Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.08.03 01:46:00 - [131] just gonna say, this has been suggested 900000000 times already , they know . shut up about it already ___________/------------------------\_____________ 'blizzard are nothing , they they are rich guys selling garbage to children, like pop music , they churn out unoriginal, basic junk and their audie
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.03 10:33:00 - [132] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian just gonna say, this has been suggested 900000000 times already , they know . shut up about it already Two reasons not to "shut up". - Active forum threads impact on order priority of feature implementation and - Thrashing out details of said feature can only help with getting a good feature. Also, maybe there is so many requests for skill queuing because it is a much desired feature. :)
Savageminion	Posted - 2007.08.04 17:47:00 - [133] I think so type of long term skill improvement needs to be done this is a very good idea and there are many out there for updating the training system so that one does not need to do very much with it but set it up an dlet it go I think something neds to be done now.
Duskiej Amarr Red Mercury Incorporated	Posted - 2007.08.04 18:51:00 - [134] /signed, aslong as you make sure the skill wont jump to the next when the subscription isn't paid. --- Mod my sig and earn free pie!
tikinish	Posted - 2007.08.05 01:49:00 - [135] signed signed singed.. always sign these post:)= _ PvE->PvP:\| missiles:\| <-alt
tikinish	Posted - 2007.08.05 01:51:00 - [136] Originally by: Solbright altaltalt Originally by: Falcon Wolfe ... and what I would like to see more than a new system for lining up all your skills would be to simply continue the current skill once you've started training it until it reaches lvl 5. Two problems there: - There is no buffer zone when approaching the end of level 5. A real queue solves this by allowing the queuing of new skills while still training the level 5 skill. - Farmers will love it too. Still need to add a penalty to discourage them. i hate when people are making the game upen the misusers of the mechanic... think of the people that want to play instead of the misusers... if hey misuse it, ban them, if you can't see they misuse it, and have no effect on your gameplay then leave them _ PvE->PvP:\| missiles:\| <-alt
Alphax45	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:37:00 - [137] I love the idea of accessing the skills over the web. It would be great to be able to start a new skill while at work. I also love the idea of a queue. Combining them would be pure gold Finally I agree the queue should be based on a skill as per other suggestions. CCP: Please do this!
vinnymcg Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:13:00 - [138] Didn't CCP say they were going to bring this in, allowing two skills to be trained at once? Remotely Delete Jump clones tread COMPSOC
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.09 01:32:00 - [139] They've muttered about a queue for years but it has never moved off the drawing board.
Kalazar Amarr Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.09 09:56:00 - [140] Originally by: Alphax45 I love the idea of accessing the skills over the web. It would be great to be able to start a new skill while at work. I would love this if a queue was not implemented. At current I work during the week, and only get access to EVE at the weekends. Therefore a way of accessing and changing my skills at work would give me so much more freedom as far as leveling up shorter skills is concerned. ----------------------------------------------
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.09 10:54:00 - [141] Edited by: Solbright altaltalt on 09/08/2007 10:54:18 Originally by: Kalazar Therefore a way of accessing and changing my skills at work would give me so much more freedom as far as leveling up shorter skills is concerned. While I don't personally have a problem with that approach, I also doubt it will happen simply because it involves external write access to in-game data.
Grismar Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:17:00 - [142] Edited by: Grismar on 09/08/2007 12:22:56 It's amusing how everyone has an opinion on why CCP didn't implement a queue in the first place, even though I fail to find any statements about by CCP itself. Popular theories are: "they forgot", "they didn't get around to it", "it's too difficult to do", "they want us to log in to raise population statistics", "they want to keep us engaged in the game" and then some less likely candidates like "queues would be too much of a load on the database" and "queues would cause people to queue up and not pay their subscription for a few months". Frankly, none of these ring true to me, since they all have trivial answers and solutions or aren't enough in and of themselves to decide not to implement a queue: "They forget" - You've told em often enough. "It's too difficult to do" - People have pointed out many fair ways to do it, including provisions for when players would try to abuse the system. "They're raising statistics" - Maybe so, but I'm assuming everyone that just logs in to flip a skill logs out afterwards. It does raise statistics some, if you remain logged in. But I can think of better ways to do it, especially since this doesn't affect veteran players. They have to wait 2 weeks for an individual skill anyway. Better to think of something that would cause a player to log in regardless of age. "They want to engage us" - By forcing us to do an annoying chore we'd sooner avoid by queueing up skills? Seems unlikely, since I'm out fast unless someone happens to convo me as I log in to change a skill. Besides, there's plenty of other elements of the game that will keep you logging in if you're interested at all. Hell, it would be a piece of cake to actually macro skill changing. And you wouldn't even feel like you're cheating. Though you would be of course. Don't do macro's, macro's are bad, m'kay? "Load on the database" - Skill queues wouldn't be that much of a load, really. Not compared to what they're keeping track of anyway, that is. And the load on the server of everyone logging in all the time is a lot worse, I'm sure. If anything, this is a reason to implement a queue instead of not do it. "Queue up and don't pay your account" - This one has the easiest solution of all: turn the queue off when you're not paying, like has been suggested a dozen times over. In fact, here's a chance for CCP to make some more money: allow new players to retroactively pay for a new account, into the past as it were, obtaining skill point credit for their new characters, to be spent right after character creation. Make it the same rate as normal training would have cost and nobody is hurt (expect when some idiot decides to spend a few 1000 and becomes the best trained character in the game in one fell swoop). But that's another thread, I suppose. Which leaves us with "they didn't get around to it" or they have a reason we're not aware of. Perhaps they feel the "one step at a time" approach makes you more aware of the progress of your character and motivates you to get skills that actually do something for you, instead of just going for being in a carrier asap, buying some isk off eBay to actually get one. Frankly, I don't really see the problem. I get the feeling most people that are asking for this feature, are exactly the players that have some lofty goal in mind and forget the gameplay that lies between here and there. There's plenty of skills that take close to forever to train and juggling your training time between those and shorter skills is part of playing EVE. If you forget to do so and lose some precious hours of training, that puts you at a disadvantage to players that plan more carefully, which sounds fair to me. Greetings, Grismar. (edit: I should really preview my posts...) Your EVE IGB home: EVE Wiki, Explorer, Navigator
Solbright altaltalt Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:27:00 - [143] Originally by: Grismar If you forget to do so and lose some precious hours of training, that puts you at a disadvantage to players that plan more carefully, which sounds fair to me. It's a simple case of convenience. It's not even so much about the lost time as it is about the constant effort for such a trivial process. After all, the training time is paid for up front. Everyone that wants a queue is racking their brains trying to figure out why it doesn't already exist.
Methem The Hand of Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.10 16:08:00 - [144] /signed I'm online almost every single day and am meticulous about setting skills to prevent any loss of time. It definitely adds a negative element to the game for me. A 1-skill queue that wouldn't start on trial accounts would simply make the game a bit less frustrating. The skills that take weeks aren't aggravating to me, as I can usually go a while without checking them, just the short skills take a lot of management.. which IMO would turn away new players. I cant see how some people would possibly be against this, considering how many unexpected downtimes we've had lately.
Solbright altaltalt	Posted - 2007.08.11 16:35:00 - [145] Originally by: Methem A 1-skill queue that wouldn't start on trial accounts would simply make the game a bit less frustrating. No reason not to go the whole hog and give the queue many slots. The only argument that was holding this up was farming and I believe that has been satisfactorily answered.
Solbright altaltalt	Posted - 2007.08.11 16:48:00 - [146] Originally by: Solbright altaltalt Originally by: Kalazar Therefore a way of accessing and changing my skills at work would give me so much more freedom as far as leveling up shorter skills is concerned. While I don't personally have a problem with that approach, I also doubt it will happen simply because it involves external write access to in-game data. Now I think about it, I'd rather not have this method as it still involves excessive maintenance for such a pathetic task.
ViRUS Pottage Caldari byeee Corp Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.02 11:32:00 - [147] Originally by: Major Stallion Originally by: Emylissan I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk. If they did just start the game, queue a load of skills and come back 5 months later and be able to fly a load of decent ships, where they gonna get the isk from? Unless you have 3 chars and live in 0.0 and farm all day, thats impossible. afaik, they changed it so that if your sup expires while skill training, you stop training the skill. At least thats what corp mates have told me when theyve forgotten to pay their sub. ------ Originally by: Okura im drunk, so noeyt to manu qurtsions plase GoldWing76 > ah... so... gatecamp at station i see Light Darkness > called stationcamp YARR
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.09.02 11:51:00 - [148] Originally by: ViRUS Pottage Originally by: Major Stallion afaik, they changed it so that if your sup expires while skill training, you stop training the skill. At least thats what corp mates have told me when theyve forgotten to pay their sub. No, it hasn't been changed, the current skill being trained still completes after the account expires. And there is no reason to change even with a queue. The pending skills will just stay pending in the queue until the account is active again.
Kanarue Shinohara	Posted - 2007.09.03 06:19:00 - [149] sigh When will the Skill training queues ever arrive. I would be more than happy to subscribe to the following extra: Suggestion: Skill Training Queues for an extra $2/month (or 20,000,000 ISK per month) Training queues allow you to program what skills to train after the current one. Therefore, when training is complete for one skill, the player does not have to log onto EVE to train another. I know CCP has reservations against allowing training queues but if they could make some side revenue from it, this would be well worth their time & account books. Moreover, the CCP would serve themselves well by throwing in a bonus: Allow players to edit their training queue from outside EVE for an extra $1/month (or 10,000,000 ISK per month.) All they'd have to do is go to the game website, http://www.eve-online.com, then their character summary page, and edit their queue there. The demand for a training queue is so popular, many players would be more than happy to pay extra for it. PS: Don't forget- Players also need to be able to edit their training queues off of the game even if they're not subscribed to the game at the moment. They can still be able to subscribe to the off-game queue-editing feature separately.
Falkus Windowmaker	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:24:00 - [150] I'd so love to see some sort of skill queuing in EVE. Some of us have jobs, family, etc... and frankly scheduling time to queue up a skill can be hard to do especially if at a time of day were we have no access to a computer+internet or restricted internet service via job site network firewall, etc... Having it be accessible via the My Account or Character web page on EVE's website would be a double bonus IMHO. Put me on the /sign list for the skill queuing feature.
Katashi Ishizuka	Posted - 2007.09.04 05:16:00 - [151] My friend got so tired of waiting for an official way to change skills he hacked together a macro that switches his skill for him in AutoIt. Way to be on the ball CCP, changing skills at 4AM is not conducive to a happy playerbase.
i take	Posted - 2007.09.04 17:30:00 - [152] would be nice
Sheerborn	Posted - 2007.09.09 19:32:00 - [153] Edited by: Sheerborn on 09/09/2007 19:31:48 Hey uhh, CCP... why don't you code this?
Delerium Primus M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.09 23:56:00 - [154] Nah skill queues would be bad as people could simply automate characters to do a perfect skill train from noob to elite without having to do much. I WOULD however prefer that if it finishes a level of training on a skill that it automatically carries onto the next one. Del
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.09.10 03:19:00 - [155] Originally by: Delerium Primus Nah skill queues would be bad as people could simply automate characters to do a perfect skill train from noob to elite without having to do much. Solved. Charge ISK to load up the queue. Quote: I WOULD however prefer that if it finishes a level of training on a skill that it automatically carries onto the next one. Lol, that would be a big bonus for the farmers. ------ Vote for Low graphics client
Renvo	Posted - 2007.09.22 18:55:00 - [156] Edited by: Renvo on 22/09/2007 19:02:51 I throw my vote in for this idea, as it would be one of the single most valuable ways to improve the game due to my work schedule. I have never posted on the forums before, but I will use my very 1st post to say PLEASE, Gods of Eve, make this a feature. Also, it seems that there are ways to work around the negatives that some people are worrying about. And if the queue idea is too difficult, then to change a skill through the "My Character" window from eve-online.com would for me be a great substitute.
Remko Marr	Posted - 2007.09.23 00:34:00 - [157] I only read the first few posts here to forgive me if I missed something. I've been wishing this was a reality pretty much ever since I started playing. I can't tell you how much time I've wasted because my skill finished training at 6 AM and I can't get on to start a new one until 4 PM. In that time I could have trained an entire new skill to level 3 or so. And that's just in one day. In order to prevent abuse, three things would have to happen. 1. Only 2-3 skills can be queued at once. That way, you can't just set a few skills to train to level 5 and then forget about it. Skill training still requires attention, you just don't waste much time. 2. For the above, training a skill currently at level 0 to level 3 wouldn't count as one skill. It would count as all three. That way you can't get around the above by just setting three skills to train to level 5. 3. If your skills are queued, they won't keep training if you're unsubscribed. The skill you're currently training will finish, but the next skill in the queue will not start. You get the best of both worlds.
Calshim eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.09.25 05:44:00 - [158] This topic has my full support. ------------------------------------------ My life is statistical and I am part of it.
Xi Mishikani	Posted - 2007.09.25 21:26:00 - [159] Edited by: Xi Mishikani on 25/09/2007 21:27:44 Well, I'm glad this isn't considered a 'dead topic' because I'd be reviving it anyway. As far as I'm concerned, a skill queue or multiple skill training would harm the gameplay more than improve it. Because a LOT of people would abuse it by setting a number of skills in queue, cancel their subscription for a month or more and then buy another subscription when the skills near completion. Therefore depriving CCP the funds it needs to maintain and improve the EVE cluster in a regulatory manner like they do/attempt to do now. The only real positive about it is that it would help alleviate some lag, but before you rebut my opinion of this matter, read on. Here is an idea that has gained popularity with every person in-game that I've mentioned it to: When you set a skill to train, unless you stop it or switch to another skill, it continues to train until it reaches Level 5. Why would this improve the gameplay? 1) It's common sense. IRL (IRL = in real life, for those unfamiliar with the acronym), when you learn something new you learn it until you've learned all you can about it or until you decide to stop or take a break from it. 2) It would be much more difficult for people to abuse it because the only time one would be able to profit from cancelling their subscription is when they reach the skills that take 1-2 months or longer to train to Level 5. 3) It would alleviate some of the load/lag from the EVE cluster because of the people that would really have no reason to play until a certain skill is at Level 5. However, there is one thing about this current discussion that I agree with, and that is to allow multiple skills to train. Although, not on the same character. You have 3 character slots on 1 client, but what's the point of having more than one slot if you can't train any of the others? Granted CCP wouldn't make as much money because they'd lose out on some of the multiple-account users, but again, this would alleviate some of the lag because you'd have fewer people logging on with multiple clients thereby reducing the population on the server, and allow CCP to maintain and improve the cluster on a regular basis but on a more efficient scale and actually allow them to fix problems/bugs that have been around for ages (I don't know of any personally, but I'm sure there are a few). Originally by: Delerium Primus Nah skill queues would be bad as people could simply automate characters to do a perfect skill train from noob to elite without having to do much. I WOULD however prefer that if it finishes a level of training on a skill that it automatically carries onto the next one. Del Didn't see that post until I posted mine, but I'm glad I'm not alone in this outside of my own Corp.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.09.25 22:08:00 - [160] well there should just be a full skill queuer and the training time should stop when account payment runs out.
Space Wraith	Posted - 2007.09.26 03:01:00 - [161] why are all of you trying to come up with ways to justify adding alott of skill in queue form WTH! Lets make more skills for the queue. Lets make peeps pay to add more skills. Lets have skills in queue train slower. and ect ..ect... Why does everybody want alott of skills in queue (quess you guys dont want to mess with that half of the game). The way the system is right now is ok. Im all for just one more skill in stand-by, why would you want many skills. When i started i was flipping back and forth training what i new was gonna help me then. All the peeps asking for a long queue, would only be asking because they are experiened and would like to exploit it by setting up a skill queue that will yield a certain type of character, which they would sell or whatever. I think i restarted my character many times as i noticed i didnt like the way he came out. The one extra skill in queue would help me and i think most peeps, because you still play the game and i think the skill set-up didnt drive you away, but i bet 1 more skill in stand-by would be nothing else but a little improvement to the current set-up, is all i got to say, Thanks Space Wraith
solbright altalt State War Academy	Posted - 2007.09.26 05:58:00 - [162] Originally by: Space Wraith why are all of you trying to come up with ways to justify adding alott of skill in queue form WTH! Maybe because it helps with out-of-game time management. And because the training time is paid for in the subscription fee. So one expects to have it all. Quote: Why does everybody want alott of skills in queue (quess you guys dont want to mess with that half of the game). The way the system is right now is ok. Are you nuts? Micro-managing the skills is not Eve, period! How can you possibly think there is anything good about forever having to fiddle with them? Quote: All the peeps asking for a long queue, would only be asking because they are experiened and would like to exploit it by setting up a skill queue that will yield a certain type of character, which they would sell or whatever. Farming is solved so that is no longer an excuse against a large queue.
Remko Marr	Posted - 2007.09.26 21:28:00 - [163] Quote: Because a LOT of people would abuse it by setting a number of skills in queue, cancel their subscription for a month or more and then buy another subscription when the skills near completion. How would that not be solved by what I suggested? If you cancel your subscription, the skill you're currently training finishes, but the next one in the queue doesn't auto-start. Technically you might still be able to put on a level 5 to train and then cancel while it does so, but how would that be any different from what you can do now? Thus, while you're account is activated the queue functions, and while it's not the queue acts like skill training does currently: you finish the skill then stop.
Miusho Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2007.09.27 20:09:00 - [164] /agrees
Miusho Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2007.09.27 20:10:00 - [165] This thread needs some bob members :p
Alex Wildstar Gallente Equinox Eternal Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.08 19:00:00 - [166] This so needs to be done, CCP please don't ignore this any longer. For those that are arguing about abuse, there is no abuse, because if you cancel the account YOUR TRAINING STOPS! That's how it works right now if your account expires for any reason. Sure you can cancel your account for the month, and at the end of the month when your account expires, your training stops. CCP still gets money when you start your account back up. I don't see the argument here? I'm NOT for a queue of like 10 skills, but up to 5, as been suggested. Make it a trainable skill if it's something that you are so concerned about abuse. Getting any skill up to Level 3 takes about 1-3 days depending on rank, so you could have a queue of 3 skills pretty quickly. If you want a queue of 5, you spend the time to get it to V. Call it something like Clone Multitasking. A queue of 3 skills is not bad, and would really help new and old users not waste time, especially since PEOPLE HAVE LIVES AND JOBS!! We can't sit on EVE all day/all night long to wait for skills to finish.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.08 21:45:00 - [167] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/10/2007 21:45:38 A useful limitation, which would suit most peoples needs, would be like this: 1. A maximum of 2 skills can be queued 2. A 2nd skill can only be queued if the 1st is below 24 hours. That'd solve those pesky 5-7 hour annoying skills training times that doesn't fit into either sleep or work time, without making it any useful for character farming or other abuse..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Dominator9987 Minmatar The Shambling Horde	Posted - 2007.10.09 02:20:00 - [168] can abuse character farm anyways... multi trial accounts and vmware. by the time the first 14 days are over you have perfect base learnings (int mem). i wont go any further into detail...
Solbright altaltaltalt	Posted - 2007.10.09 07:05:00 - [169] Originally by: Dominator9987 can abuse character farm anyways... multi trial accounts and vmware. by the time the first 14 days are over you have perfect base learnings (int mem). i wont go any further into detail... Heh, or use Wine, it's much more efficient at the job. Clearly the next step is to set a long skill training. Wait for that to finish then pay for a month and train up lots more skills followed by a last long skill again. Rinse and repeat until at desirable level for selling. Like you say, character farming is already possible. I assume the reason for CCPs reluctance to add a skill queue is to prevent that process being even easier to perform. Just like there is no hotkeys for navigation commands which I also assume is to make macros more difficult to build. Both missing features annoy me a lot. :( I personally don't think those arguments are good ones but I can't think why the features are missing otherwise.
Solbright altaltaltalt	Posted - 2007.10.09 07:06:00 - [170] Originally by: Kerfira 1. A maximum of 2 skills can be queued 2. A 2nd skill can only be queued if the 1st is below 24 hours. An unlimited queue is more flexible. :)
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.09 07:12:00 - [171] Originally by: Dominator9987 can abuse character farm anyways... multi trial accounts and vmware. by the time the first 14 days are over you have perfect base learnings (int mem). i wont go any further into detail... I assume you're replying to me.... Yeah, but it'd still involve close monitoring and effort of the accounts. What I was referring to was people just starting a character with 20 skills in queue..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Lyn Valwyn	Posted - 2007.10.09 09:40:00 - [172] I have just started my second character, first one is well above 20 million sp. So far I think I have lost around a week of training time on the old one altogether which is not so bad. Getting up in the morning and looking at EVEMON to check if I have to change skills is in my blood now. Swearing (AGAIN) if I (AGAIN) have to postpone my uber-nifty t2 skill training because it would finish too early before I get home/wake up/<insert normal life activity outside of EVE> is pretty frequent as well, but I can manage because I can set long skills that will go on for weeks if I am unsure of the time I can play again. I can't be bothered to get up during the night or start to plan beforehand over a certain level or any such no-life-nonsense so please spare me with those, this is just a game. Still, adding a 1-depth skill queue or the drawing board idea of a dual training setup would make life so much easier for those like me who can barely play a few hours every few days. Farming should not be an issue, CCP just has to disable training while an account is inactive, simple as that. The reason they have a feature like that and not at least a 1-depth skill queue is beyond me... with that or with the dual training solution you would have to login sooner or later, anyway. It is like warp to 0 with the autopilot taking you to 15, you have the option to set a long skill for backup so you don't have to login after a short skill finishes but if you want several short skills, you still have to have some manual control (well, at least login for a minute), the same as it is with safe travel in lowsec for example. Jump to 0 bookmarks of the old system were pretty much the same for travelling what no skill queue is for training today... an annoyance.
Solbright altaltaltalt	Posted - 2007.10.09 11:34:00 - [173] Originally by: Lyn Valwyn Still, adding a 1-depth skill queue or the drawing board idea of a dual training setup would make life so much easier for those like me who can barely play a few hours every few days. A deep queue is even better.
Solbright altaltaltalt	Posted - 2007.10.09 11:37:00 - [174] Originally by: Kerfira Yeah, but it'd still involve close monitoring and effort of the accounts. What I was referring to was people just starting a character with 20 skills in queue..... Farming is already solved.
TBiggest	Posted - 2007.10.09 12:03:00 - [175] imo skill queuing is a must. Sure theres possible exploits associtaed, but theyre ezily avoidable. And for those that simply train like 2 months of skills and stop playing....Well who cares bout those ppl? they obviously wont be a huge superpower. Ever. And ppl like that will most likely forget bout eve neway. Without queing these ppl simply wldnt play past trial. So in fact, this is a way for ccp to make more money. Some fool gets sucked into it via queuing on his 90 day account, then never plays again. Who wins? ccp. It is not hard to implement, do it already! Reward the faithfull players who put up with 1 hr less of gameplay a day over other mmorpg's (yes im aussie downtime 7-8pm >.<) and then sometimes 24 hrs of paid time for long patches. Im not slagging EVE/ccp, ill play eve no matter what, but we kinda deserve this conveniant thing!
Buyuk	Posted - 2007.10.09 14:07:00 - [176] Implementing skill queue has my full support. Although, I think, the possibility to queue only one skill for the next level would be satisfactory. One "emergency" skill could be selected, which starts automatically after the previous is done and trains only until the next level completes. This would save a lot of lost "untrained" time not having huge effect in the "balance".
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.09 15:01:00 - [177] The argument against 'zomg CCP lose money' has been given, good. The argument against 'zomg skills pharmers' has been given, good. What's this new argument of 'not more than <x> skills in the queue'? Sounds like everyone agrees now. And there is no difference if we are all agreed between 1, 2, 3 or an infinite number of skills, due to the argument against CCP losing money. ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.09 15:17:00 - [178] Most overdue feature in EVE. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI
Remko Marr Caldari First And Only	Posted - 2007.10.09 20:31:00 - [179] I like the idea of having a skill you can train to get a queue. Level 5 being 5 skills in queue, but taking forever to train. It could help protect from abuse, plus it seems like it would fit in with the EVE world better than just throwing it in there.
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Money Makers Ltd.	Posted - 2007.10.10 01:03:00 - [180] I have a wife and kid that demands my attention before Eve, but I truly love this game and desperately want a skill queue. - It should NOT be available to trial accounts. - Your current skill should continuously train to the next highest level if possible. - If you current skill reaches level 5, ONE alternate skill will begin training. - Your alternate skill will train to continuously as well. - If no alternate is specified or the alternate reaches level 5, training stops. That's my ideal solution. Another interesting idea would be to make special implants that allow skill queue. =================================================== Quotes Of The Week "I don't drink these days. I am allergic to alcohol and narcotics. I break out in handcuffs." -- Robert Downey Junior "The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." -- Robert Paul "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." -- Muhammad Ali
Cedric McCullogh	Posted - 2007.10.11 07:32:00 - [181] Here's another option, what if there were just a standalone application (that didn't even need to be installed) that you could just log in, set your new skill, and log back out. This might be a medium between not playing, and completely playing? Not that I'm saying a skill queue wouldn't be AWESOME, but if they won't do it, this could be a second alternative?!
BiggestT	Posted - 2007.10.11 11:12:00 - [182] Cedric that wldn really solve much, coz it wld only like 30 seconds extra to log in to eve, the problem with skills is the oddballl time shtey can give like 2 am finish. Not really the bother of looging in/out.
Tamarana	Posted - 2007.10.11 13:00:00 - [183] I'm for a "no queue" approach. But, when a skill end training, a new skill will start training automatically. What new skill? The fastest? The next level of the previous trained? A random skill? I would prefer the last. Players would not lose SP because a skill ended at 02:00 AM or when they were at work, or when their connection was unavailable, or when something unexpected happen and they are not able to start a new skill. They would need to access EVE and change the trained skill to what they prefer train earlier.
Heuy Hatorat Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.12 03:09:00 - [184] /signed again and again and again and..... The farming issue does not hold water because they will find a way no matter what. The current system actually does not promote taking up new skills. (Follow my thought path here) Example... Wow exploration sounds cool I think I will give that a try. Ok buy the skill books (no problem) aww crikey its gonna take me 7 days to get all the low level skills trained because I rarely can play more than 2-3 hours at a time. So I train 1 or 2 short skills then switch to a longer skill until I can play again. Takes me 10 times as long to get there because I go into ADD (attention deficit disorder) skill training mode. I mine Veldspar in 0.0 because I can.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Union Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.13 04:47:00 - [185] meh lazy gits need to just train a long skill when you're offline and the short skills while you're online. worked fine for 4 years, have missed zero training time. -- Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them... Tralala
Solbright altaltaltalt	Posted - 2007.10.13 09:49:00 - [186] Originally by: Ris Dnalor meh lazy gits Absolutely! It's my time that's being wasted. There is no harm in having a queue and it would make life easier. That sounds like an obvious improvement to me.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Union Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.14 04:55:00 - [187] except that ccp needs to keep you logging in to train skills. it's good for keeping ppl active. ;) How many times have you "logged on to just swap skill" and ended up on some grand adventure when you should really be asleep :) -- Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them... Tralala
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.14 06:20:00 - [188] Originally by: Ris Dnalor except that ccp needs to keep you logging in to train skills. it's good for keeping ppl active. ;) How many times have you "logged on to just swap skill" and ended up on some grand adventure when you should really be asleep :) Yeah, right. Not likely. It's more like there is so much to try out, setup, earning ISK and keeping up with the corp ops that you are always in game anyway. Like I said, Eve has far more that makes it worth investing our time in it than a silly skill change.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.14 06:44:00 - [189] Lol, there is no way that the queue is missing for the psychological manipulation of keeping people interested. If that was the case I would most certainly not be around these forums. If you've noticed, my main is expired, and has been for many months now. I would have quit Eve and not come back if the real features didn't exist. Skill changes have never played a part in my attraction to Eve. The way skilling works as a content enabler, sure, but not the micromanaging. Hell, I would never have even joined for a trial 21 months ago if the key parts weren't there.
Remko Marr Caldari First And Only	Posted - 2007.10.14 19:09:00 - [190] Well, ok, if you're worried that interest would dwindle, what about a few limits? Say, you can only put a skill in a queue less than lvl3. As in, you have to train level 4 or anything manually. Or something similar to that.
PowerOfWallis	Posted - 2007.10.14 20:34:00 - [191] .....................................WHY NOT?..............THIS IS WHY................................................... This is a very simple idea to implement from a programming standpoint, and I am sure it was proposed when the game was in development. But, there is a reason it hasn't been introduced... By making it necessary to login frequently, a subconscious sense of need is developed. Most every game has used tactics similar to this as an attempt to prolong the interest of its players (one of my favorites being EverQuest's subliminal music). In some games you must play to gain experience; this is also creates need. Eve is able to create this feeling and give its players a piece of mind knowing that they wont fall behind if they can't play regularly (obviously, by requiring frequent but brief skill changes). This accommodates the spectrum gaming audiences, ranging from having all day to having little time to play. If it weren't this way, and people queued skills for long periods of time, the likelihood of them losing interest during that period of time would increase dramatically (why am I paying for this game again?). ...................AND THAT'S WHY QUEUING SKILLS WILL NEVER BE IMPLEMENTED.................... I'm not defending EVE and saying it doesn't suck, because it does. Nor am I saying that skill queuing wouldn't be convenient, because it would. It's simply not beneficial to CCP. NOTE: If you disagree with anything you have read, you are wrong. The likely reason being that you lack the brain capacity to grasp the concepts and/or think more broadly.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.14 21:03:00 - [192] Edited by: solbright altalt on 14/10/2007 21:03:47 Originally by: PowerOfWallis This accommodates the spectrum gaming audiences, ranging from having all day to having little time to play. If it weren't this way, and people queued skills for long periods of time, the likelihood of them losing interest during that period of time would increase dramatically (why am I paying for this game again?). What period? At the start? There is so much to learn about for the first few months that anyone that was going to leave for lack of interest will do so anyway. Sorry, you've just repeated a bad argument. If manual skill changing is considered a draw-card then there is much bigger problems with the game.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.14 22:07:00 - [193] Hell, if that was a real reason then there is a simple fix - make queuing a learnable skill itself. Many have posted this idea before, maybe it's a good idea after all. Giving it a requirement of Learning Level 4 seems suitable. Matches up nicely with the rest of the learning skills.
Tawrich Tistrya	Posted - 2007.10.14 22:45:00 - [194] Well i've been reading thru this thread a bit , to many post saying the same thing that just readnig the first page and last one almost suffices to get the general beliefs on the matter , but htis aside. The best argument i've heard sofar for skill queueing has been for those ppl that ie. are in the nacy and as such have periods wherein they can't log in to change skills. This itself could be solved by adding a paid service in either isk or RL cash. Before dissing me on this hear me out a sec ( and hopefuly i havent missed a post stating the same ). Say ie. your highest rank and/or lvl skill wont be able to cover your entire period of absence you could in advance pay for a temporary added "slot" to use as queue for your next skill.As for the obvious comment of being able to use real money to get ahead in the game , they are not really getting ahead but have to pay to not fall behind and as such it would give ppl the choice to be able to queue up when they know they'll be unable to log on for a longer period of time , given that they would have to have an active account to do this. Offcourse i'd love to see a normal queue system eventhough the current system is fine for me aswell , but being somewhat lazy ( yes i admit it ) i'd love to be able to queue up 1 or more skills. But that is just an added feature that everyone would be able to use and as such noone is harmed ( much ) by it being added or not. My main concern goes out to those ppl that don't have the choice for whatever reason (medical , army etc etc ) to not be able to login but who still pay for their account and miss alot of SP. As for character farming , it wil happen anyway , don't underestimate the creativity of those ppl , i personally would not be surprised if the bigger char farmers already have found some way of getting skills queue'd thru the use of some form of macro or other 3r party tool. Another comment given in multiple post is being able to change skill thru the eve website or thru a mini client. This is a dangerous area imo , the miniclient seems a good and eve fun ida , perhaps even enable it to be a mobile thing where you would be able to chat with your mobile ie. and be able to change skill , still means you'd have to eb awake and log into the game so that hardly changes much to the current system. But being able to do it thru the website is not something i'd like to see as it will be very hard to keep ppl from using macro's and such to make there own queueing system. I mean any person that has some coding skill ( i dont but i can imagine ) could work out a tool that would log in on the website for you and change the skill. But i'm no expert , this is just my 2 isk worth. p.s. be gentle
PowerOfWallis	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:03:00 - [195] Originally by: solbright altalt What period? At the start? There is so much to learn about for the first few months that anyone that was going to leave for lack of interest will do so anyway. "......as an attempt to prolong the interest of its players." Keyword: prolong Originally by: solbright altalt If manual skill changing is considered a draw-card then there is much bigger problems with the game. You're thinking too restricted.. it isn't a "draw-card," its something that you aren't supposed to notice. And, in this particular case, there "are" bigger problems with the game. Originally by: solbright altalt Sorry, you've just repeated a bad argument. You're equating your lack of understanding with me providing a bad argument. This is not valid. As I implied before this isn't really negotiable; it is fact. Ask yourself: Why has something so annoying, and so simple to fix, not been fixed? For people such as yourself, this is really the only blatant way of seeing it. I don't expect you or anyone else to receive this well. I also don't think you are stupid for not understanding. It is hard for humans to see/deal with new ideas/processes when they are so used to something different. However, there are a few people that will understand this. To all the random people that respond, triggered by one or two words they do not like, with completely closed minds: "Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish." -Euripides
PowerOfWallis	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:06:00 - [196] Originally by: solbright altalt Hell, if that was a real reason then there is a simple fix - make queuing a learnable skill itself. Many have posted this idea before, maybe it's a good idea after all. Giving it a requirement of Learning Level 4 seems suitable. Matches up nicely with the rest of the learning skills. Like I said before, I think any skill queuing would be great. But, it will never happen.
Lord Zugzwang	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:20:00 - [197] I think having one skill queued up would be nice in case the servers drops. The number of crashes on patch day are pretty annoying. Many players have to have a training for longer than a week, even when we are playing. I have actually had a skill within 5 minutes to complete, and was not able to change it as the server would not respond... Finally after 1.5 hours I could get back in to change it after the server came back online.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:39:00 - [198] Originally by: PowerOfWallis Like I said before, I think any skill queuing would be great. But, it will never happen. I believe that one of the jobs of the forums is for nagging.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:46:00 - [199] Originally by: PowerOfWallis Originally by: solbright altalt What period? At the start? There is so much to learn about for the first few months that anyone that was going to leave for lack of interest will do so anyway. "......as an attempt to prolong the interest of its players." Keyword: prolong What period is that again? Quote: And, in this particular case, there "are" bigger problems with the game. Lol, everyone only logs in for skill changes. Pull the other one. Originally by: solbright altalt Sorry, you've just repeated a bad argument. You're equating your lack of understanding with me providing a bad argument. This is not valid. As I implied before this isn't really negotiable; it is fact. Ask yourself: Why has something so annoying, and so simple to fix, not been fixed? For people such as yourself, this is really the only blatant way of seeing it. Ah, but just because someone may have made such a decision in the past doesn't make it a good one or one that can't be reconsidered. Don't so defeatist.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:53:00 - [200] Originally by: Tawrich Tistrya This itself could be solved by adding a paid service in either isk or RL cash. That's part of the proposed skill queue - Charge ISK to load it up. This also burdens farmers with a premium on the sell prices over one that is farmed one skill at a time.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:54:00 - [201] Originally by: Emylissan I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk. If you let your subscription run out, you stop skill training. A skill queue for skills less than 2 days would be fair. Starting players can often have dozens of skills that take less than an hour, so setting queue for 4-5 relatively short skills to train in succession might help them out. For those in military service, maybe if they sent a request to CCP stating that they are shipping out and to please train the following skills while they are away on active duty for x amount of time -then again, they are just as likely to tell their brother or sister to do it for them and never, ever type in local or undock under penalty of death -but they'd never do something like that. I remember my alt's corp had a guy who was afk for a month, then logged in -turned out to be his wife logging in to train something for him because he was gonna be in jail for the next 3 months. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:56:00 - [202] Originally by: Futher Bezluden A skill queue for skills less than 2 days would be fair. An unlimited one is just as fair.
BiggestT	Posted - 2007.10.15 12:12:00 - [203] Who needs skill queing? So what if you lose like a day or so from skill times. Who cares? Learn patience, It all takes time, in time u will have your skill. Sure it would be nice, but not essential. I dont care, I will continue to play EVE nerf after nerf after nerf. If CCP were going to implement skill queue they wld have done it by now. Stop whing plz, nothing will result. Most 1-3 skills dont take long to train, then u can train them for a few days, if u dont log on to skill change every few days, u shdlnt play EVE. Going on Holdiday? train that lev 5 or wahtever. Done, thankyou and goodnight
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.15 12:30:00 - [204] Originally by: BiggestT Who needs skill queing? It's a want not a need. Like most automatic functions, it makes life easier.
Deicidal	Posted - 2007.10.16 14:01:00 - [205] /signed I would lvoe this idea as my "Goal" is to level 5 all skills haha roughly 10 - 15 years of time, in which i am sure they will add more skills however, i find it quite annoying that i have 100 1 hour skills, and if gods forbid i have to work, or go on vacation, or my comp blows up that sets me back gods only know how long. with a Queing system, i would be able to set X ammount of skills, totaling a certain ammount of time. What i would suggest is a new skill. "Skill Que" Rank 5 Level 1: you can que up to 3 hours of skills, level 2: would add 2 hours,each level there after adds one hour of que time. this would allow for a total of 8 hours of skill queing. "Advanced Skill Queing" Rank 10 Requires Skill Queing Level 5, level 1 adds 8 hours Level 2 adds 4, each level there after adds 2 hours. So total available que time would be 26 hours now to me that would be more manageable and realistic, and perhaps even add in a Que slot system, above and beyond Queing Mastery Rank 15 level 1 allows 2 skill slots, each level beyond adds 1 for a total of 6 skills slots. in total you woudl be able to set 26 hours of training, until you dedicate the tiem to the slot skills, which you coudl then add in 6 long term skills. for instance 6 rank 15 skills to just chug away while you play and or go on vaca, or work or your computer dies so you dont lose any time. the first 2 "skills" would help the "Loyal" players not lose time, and the 3rd skill would be for those that dont have hours to sit on they're arses and play and micro manage skills. and adding a script in to check for subscription to allow for non pay trainers would be an easy and profitable step for CCP
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.16 22:02:00 - [206] Originally by: Deicidal So total available que time would be 26 hours Why so pathetic? Why not unlimited?
AshtarDJ Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:39:00 - [207] I would love to see this implemented, but I don't think it is ever gonna happen. Thousands of ppl log on every day just to change skills... that means better statistics for the game. The "I NEED to log on tonight to change a skill" feeling is one of the biggest addictions of this game and CCP would be foolish to spoil that with a simple tool that does it for you. How many times have you logged on just to change a skill and ended up chatting for an hour or quickly undocking to save a corp mate's butt? It has happened to me hundreds of times. As it has already been posted here... It isn't so hard to plan your skilling times so it suits you when you have access to a computer with internet.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:55:00 - [208] Originally by: AshtarDJ As it has already been posted here... It isn't so hard to plan your skilling times so it suits you when you have access to a computer with internet. And as has been replied already - a queue is better. This thread is here for voting the idea up so it does get implemented. You start by saying you'd like to have a queue but then go cowering in the corner.
Verx Interis	Posted - 2007.10.18 02:57:00 - [209] Originally by: Tamarana I'm for a "no queue" approach. But, when a skill end training, a new skill will start training automatically. What new skill? The fastest? The next level of the previous trained? A random skill? I would prefer the last. Players would not lose SP because a skill ended at 02:00 AM or when they were at work, or when their connection was unavailable, or when something unexpected happen and they are not able to start a new skill. They would need to access EVE and change the trained skill to what they prefer train earlier. Finished training: Battlecruiser 5 Now I'm going to have you spend the next 4 days of your vacation training science 4 or some worthless crap even though you want to be in a command ship! Isn't that great! Sounds fair enough. -----sig-starts-here------ I not what know I is doing.
AshtarDJ Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.10.18 07:40:00 - [210] Originally by: solbright altalt And as has been replied already - a queue is better. This thread is here for voting the idea up so it does get implemented. You start by saying you'd like to have a queue but then go cowering in the corner. Offcouse I want a small tool that does the job instead of me... Who wouldn't????? I want the tool, but I don't think I will get it... and I gave everyone the reason why I think so. solbright - The reason I wrote what you quoted was that after 2 years online and never missing a skill change on any of my chars, I can tell from my personal experience that planning skills isn't so hard. As you mentioned, we are "voting" and voting is about personal oppinions... We are here to tell ppl about our own oppinons, not to flame other's.
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.18 08:02:00 - [211] Originally by: BiggestT Who needs skill queing? So what if you lose like a day or so from skill times. Who cares? Learn patience, It all takes time, in time u will have your skill. Sure it would be nice, but not essential. I dont care, I will continue to play EVE nerf after nerf after nerf. If CCP were going to implement skill queue they wld have done it by now. Stop whing plz, nothing will result. Most 1-3 skills dont take long to train, then u can train them for a few days, if u dont log on to skill change every few days, u shdlnt play EVE. Going on Holdiday? train that lev 5 or wahtever. Done, thankyou and goodnight ...couldn't have said it better myself
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.18 13:04:00 - [212] It's just a preference guys. Saying the feature won't be added to Eve because of some lame defeatist reasons isn't of any value. If you don't care about the feature then don't comment.
AshtarDJ Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.10.18 13:20:00 - [213] Isn't that what Discussion Forums are about?
Jeremiah Quinn	Posted - 2007.10.18 20:56:00 - [214] I think a skill queue is a fantastic idea. It would be easy enough to make sure it wasn't exploited by simply making the queue stop when an account subscription ends.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.19 01:24:00 - [215] Originally by: AshtarDJ Isn't that what Discussion Forums are about? What? To say you don't care? And be a general troll?
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.19 06:12:00 - [216] And here i thought my contribution to this thread were crystal clear...sorry then, let me rephrase for the ***ards: CCP, Please put your time and effort on something important. Oh...almost forgot, you probably want me to exaplain what is important as well...how about all them sticky threads by CCP themselves?!?
AshtarDJ Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:43:00 - [217] Originally by: solbright altalt Originally by: AshtarDJ Isn't that what Discussion Forums are about? What? To say you don't care? And be a general troll? There you are flaming other ppl's threads again. it sounds just like you're saying: "If your oppinion isn't the same as mine, I don't wanna hear about it."
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.19 10:33:00 - [218] Originally by: Connor Banks And here i thought my contribution to this thread were crystal clear...sorry then, let me rephrase for the ***ards: CCP, Please put your time and effort on something important. And here i thought my reply to this troll was crystal clear... If you don't care about the feature then don't comment.
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:31:00 - [219] Edited by: Connor Banks on 19/10/2007 23:31:41 Too bad you ain't forum admin then, sucker! So, get over it already...
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.20 05:07:00 - [220] Originally by: Connor Banks Too bad you ain't forum admin then, sucker! So, get over it already... Lol, speak for yourself.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.20 07:48:00 - [221] I think it would be fun if training would continue on one single skill until it reaches lvl 5, then it would choose lowest rank skill which has least levels (if there would be many it would pick randomly) Or alternatively skill training would continue picking random lowest rank lowest level skill to train. I actually would like this no more changing skill every 10 minutes! I find especially less than 8h skill training difficult to time, personally.
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.20 09:00:00 - [222] Edited by: Connor Banks on 20/10/2007 09:00:30 Solbright, you are one resilient roach, i'll give you that... 1. Skill queing is for lazy people. 2. Skill queing will make non lazy people lazy. 3. Skill queing will make EVE lazy. 4. I don't like lazy people. 5. I don't want EVE to become lazy. 6. I don't want skill queing in EVE.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.20 09:34:00 - [223] Originally by: Connor Banks Solbright, you are one resilient roach, i'll give you that... :) One of those things one does when not able to participate but still think it's worth pursuing. Quote: 1. Skill queing is for lazy people. I sure hope you don't carry a cellphone with you. You might get lazy and use it. :P I think you just want to punish those that don't have a lot of time to invest in Eve. As I pointed out in this thread, training time is paid for in the sub. It would be nice to have easy management of all that time.
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.20 10:31:00 - [224] As I said, 1. Skill queing is for lazy people. 2. Skill queing will make non lazy people lazy. 3. Skill queing will make EVE lazy. 4. I don't like lazy ppl. 5. I don't want EVE to become lazy. 6. I don't want skill queing in EVE. You call me a sadist? Sure, i can live with that...as long as EVE doesnt become a forum for lazy people like yourself.
Bitter Brain	Posted - 2007.10.20 11:26:00 - [225] For me skill queing would really me a nice feature - and I cannot see any good reason for not implementing it. It would really help players that train a lot of lvl 1 skills, and I think that we we should help the newbies out there... Another thing. Yesterday when EVE went down for security auditing it wasn't possible for me to stay up and check for the game coming online - I would think that a skill queing feature would be one of the ways that unplanned downtime could be more acceptable. Bitter Brain
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.20 11:36:00 - [226] Edited by: solbright altalt on 20/10/2007 11:36:42 Originally by: Connor Banks You call me a sadist? Sure, i can live with that...as long as EVE doesnt become a forum for lazy people like yourself. Hmmm, a "Do as I say not as I do." type. I guess there is no argument to that.
Aurinkokuningas	Posted - 2007.10.20 11:46:00 - [227] Simply: NO. Having to actually log in at random times is one of the things that make good (dedicated, playing a lot) players stand out from the rest. Getting the advantage is a reward for doing that and those players actually deserve it. I would actually go the other way: If you have no skill training for X time, the next time you turn on a skill you have to churn back ALSO that lost skill training time. For instance 4 hours without skill on training you would have to churn 4 hours of training on without actually receiving any skill points. That would be sweet. Your lame idea has been proposed here literally a million times now. It was utterly idiotic and lame the exactly first time already and still is. Now go cry somewhere else.
Yoshihito	Posted - 2007.10.20 11:54:00 - [228] Edited by: Yoshihito on 20/10/2007 11:55:47 Originally by: Connor Banks Edited by: Connor Banks on 20/10/2007 09:00:30 Solbright, you are one resilient roach, i'll give you that... 1. Skill queing is for lazy people. 2. Skill queing will make non lazy people lazy. 3. Skill queing will make EVE lazy. 4. I don't like lazy people. 5. I don't want EVE to become lazy. 6. I don't want skill queing in EVE. I love how people like this, turn a simple and very handy idea into a flame argument over something very trivial. First off, it's a game and you sit and your ass to play it, therefore it is a constant state of being lazy. Skill queue'ing would make it a bit easier to manage certain skills especially when you are away and unable to do anything because hey, you have a real life and have responsibilities. And with those responsibilities you bring in money to pay for this habit and you deserve a little break here and there. They can do certain things to make it so skill queue'ing isn't broken or overpowered. Such as make it so skills won't train after you subscription ends. I believe it already does that, but if not that would be an easy fix. They can make the skill queue itself a skill that you have to train just like any other. Let's say it has a prerequisite of Learning Level 5. Each level you get of the skill for the queue, you get an extra skill that you can set to train after the first one is done, at a max of five skills that can be set to train in succession. There are many things they can do, these are just a couple. Someone brings something to the suggestion forum that is a good idea and people like Conner bring unnecessary negativity to something that would work for the whole community of EVE. I don't know many people who don't want this implemented but I can say this, you are surrounded by about 99% of people who do want this implemented. No one really cares what you want or don't want in EVE Connor, fortunately it's not up to you. If CCP held a vote I know that this would win and you would have to put up with the skill queue that you will most likely take full advantage of like everyone else if it is put in the game. If you can come up with a better reason why it shouldn't be implemented other than you don't want it and it will make people even more lazy, I'm all ears. But until then keep your negative opinions to yourself until you have a sufficient and well thought out argument/reason why this shouldn't be put in. The world doesn't revolve around you buddy. I know it's an eye opener but it's the truth. And don't try to turn this around on me because I know full well that the world doesn't revolve around me either and I wouldn't want it to. I'm just pointing out the obvious and that you really are vastly outnumbered when it comes to who wants this and who doesn't. Just my two cents... Edit: Oh, and for the record this is an idea that CCP has been thinking about for awhile now and it's looking like it might be implemented with the new expansion. I guess we'll just have to wait and see though.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.21 00:29:00 - [229] Originally by: Aurinkokuningas Having to actually log in at random times is one of the things that make good (dedicated, playing a lot) players stand out from the rest. That's complete rubbish. A good player is learned from experience not gifted by staying logged in. Quote: Getting the advantage is a reward for doing that and those players actually deserve it. The reward is beating the enemy. Even better with a cheaper ship. There is no deserving it.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.21 07:55:00 - [230] Edited by: shinsushi on 21/10/2007 07:55:34 1 1 skill queue will not in any measurable way really change the amount of micro management that is required by this game (i.e. a **load), as long as its disabled upon account deactivation. A 1 skill queue will most likely increase player retention and therefore $$$ for CCP. A 1 skill queue will make people less stressed out about this GAME**. Oh, and I bet a 1 skill wueue would lessen the amount of people logged in and AFK (another benefit to CCP.)
JcJet Caldari RusAviaSpace Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.10.21 09:30:00 - [231] Edited by: JcJet on 21/10/2007 09:29:57 Yesterday i have got a nice example of that why we need a skill queue...i have lost about 10 hours of sp during emergency DT...
RaTTuS BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.21 09:58:00 - [232] he's another take on it - no new skills needed, take the existing Learning skill each level allows you to add one skill at that rank as a backup. so level 1 allows a rank 1 skill as a backup level 2 a rank 2 etc. as most people have got this skill already trained - no time sink moans :-P -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & RaTTuS Home
Aurinkokuningas	Posted - 2007.10.22 08:53:00 - [233] Originally by: solbright altalt That's complete rubbish. A good player is learned from experience not gifted by staying logged in. Oddly actual playing amount seems to in the big picture to correlate with real skills. Originally by: solbright altalt The reward is beating the enemy. Even better with a cheaper ship. There is no deserving it. The issue is entirely skill neutral in the sense that we are not necessarily even discussing of fighting skills. What comes to the "better player retention" claim btw, many people might be already getting bored and leaving because they are too much on par and equal with the newbies. That works both ways.
solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:22:00 - [234] Originally by: Aurinkokuningas Originally by: solbright altalt That's complete rubbish. A good player is learned from experience not gifted by staying logged in. Oddly actual playing amount seems to in the big picture to correlate with real skills. I believe that's what I said. Quote: Originally by: solbright altalt The reward is beating the enemy. Even better with a cheaper ship. There is no deserving it. The issue is entirely skill neutral in the sense that we are not necessarily even discussing of fighting skills. What I'm saying is that the skill system in Eve is not for making you uber. It's mostly just a content enabler. Any expectation that the skills should reward you for being logged-in is very miss-guided. There is plenty of other rewards for being active and playing Eve. The skill system isn't one of them. Quote: What comes to the "better player retention" claim btw, many people might be already getting bored and leaving because they are too much on par and equal with the newbies. That works both ways. I'm not sure I follow you. You are saying that you think newbies shouldn't be allowed to train?
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.23 23:59:00 - [235] The easiest way is to just make a skill keep training unless you stop it. (or it maxxes out at level 5)
Remko Marr Caldari First And Only	Posted - 2007.10.24 01:46:00 - [236] If you're so concerned about it letting people never play and still advance, then just make the queue have two items. It's less convienent, but it still serves the basic purpose: to keep too much skill training time from beeing wasted. That way, if your skill finishes as 3 in the morning, you have one other waiting, even if it's not first on your priority list, just so that you don't waste time, and when you do have a chance to get back on you will because you'll most likely want to switch the automatically queued skill to the one you REALLY want. This way you keep your training time and still have good incentive to play frequently.
BiggestT	Posted - 2007.10.25 06:42:00 - [237] Originally by: Connor Banks As I said, 1. Skill queing is for lazy people. 2. Skill queing will make non lazy people lazy. 3. Skill queing will make EVE lazy. 4. I don't like lazy ppl. 5. I don't want EVE to become lazy. 6. I don't want skill queing in EVE. You call me a sadist? Sure, i can live with that...as long as EVE doesnt become a forum for lazy people like yourself. HaHa there u go, im sure CCP wld agree ;) skill queu = no go
Aftershock2100	Posted - 2007.11.03 18:55:00 - [238] I would love a skill queue system, as some of my friends, my girlfriend, and my sister all quit because of the annoyance of that initial 15 minute to 2 hr skill changing bullcrap we all had to go through. If you wanted to limit it, how about making the skill queue total time not be able to exeed 24 hours or something?
Lord Zoran Caldari CrAzyF1sTs	Posted - 2007.11.04 01:40:00 - [239] i guess it wouldn't be a bad idea for people who have jsut started and don't have that many long skills they can train but apart from that i see no reason why it should be introduced, next time just remember to put a long skill on........ --------------------------------------------- no sig for you !!! Yarr!?!?!?!?!
BiggestT	Posted - 2007.11.04 02:49:00 - [240] Originally by: Aurinkokuningas Simply: NO. Having to actually log in at random times is one of the things that make good (dedicated, playing a lot) players stand out from the rest. Getting the advantage is a reward for doing that and those players actually deserve it. I would actually go the other way: If you have no skill training for X time, the next time you turn on a skill you have to churn back ALSO that lost skill training time. For instance 4 hours without skill on training you would have to churn 4 hours of training on without actually receiving any skill points. That would be sweet. Errm thats a tad harsh. From the time i go to bed to the time i get home from work, i cant access eve for 20hrs. This means i have to train a skill for 20+ hrs each night Often ill just train a 18hr or 19hrs skill instead, i lose an hour but gain the skill i want not some random long lev 5 skill that i dont need yet. So that idea is bad...but skill queing is bad also...leave things as is plz Your lame idea has been proposed here literally a million times now. It was utterly idiotic and lame the exactly first time already and still is. Now go cry somewhere else.
BiggestT	Posted - 2007.11.04 02:56:00 - [241] aww man damn quote message dint quite work....well neway this is what i meant to say: From the time i turn off eve at night, to the time i get to log in to check skill after work, 20hrs has passed. During that time i cant change skill. Most o the time theres a good 20+ hr skill that i can do, but often for a lev 3 or lev 4 skill that i really want, its like 18-19hrs so i just trian that and lose an hr for the gain of the skill id prefer. Rather than having to train some lev 5 skill i dont want yet. So this idea = bad. Skill quieng idea = bad. Leave it as is thankyou
Solbright altaltaltalt	Posted - 2007.11.04 04:32:00 - [242] Originally by: BiggestT Most o the time theres a good 20+ hr skill that i can do, but often for a lev 3 or lev 4 skill that i really want, its like 18-19hrs so i just trian that and lose an hr for the gain of the skill id prefer. Rather than having to train some lev 5 skill i dont want yet. So this idea = bad. Skill quieng idea = bad. Leave it as is thankyou What is bad about a skill queue? You have listed how a queue would be nice to have then said it's bad!?
telxkiskisrowr	Posted - 2007.11.06 04:29:00 - [243] Originally by: Aurinkokuningas Simply: NO. Having to actually log in at random times is one of the things that make good (dedicated, playing a lot) players stand out from the rest. Getting the advantage is a reward for doing that and those players actually deserve it. I would actually go the other way: If you have no skill training for X time, the next time you turn on a skill you have to churn back ALSO that lost skill training time. For instance 4 hours without skill on training you would have to churn 4 hours of training on without actually receiving any skill points. That would be sweet. Your lame idea has been proposed here literally a million times now. It was utterly idiotic and lame the exactly first time already and still is. Now go cry somewhere else. wth? i don't want to get up in at 2am to change a skill so you are better than me? also i normally just put something on to train that won't run out. 4 hours left on that skill switch to something else before bed. the tone bothered me mostly. it would be nice for finishing 2am skills, unexpected downtime, and long weekends. I would like it. Simply allow 1 other skill to be set for next and it checks for subscription before going to next. it doesn't need to be hold 14 skills or anything like that.
Agentosma	Posted - 2007.11.06 05:40:00 - [244] i would like this, like some players out there like me unable to log on due to net troubles, downtime (unexpected as well :P ) this would be a much overdue feature i would welcome it with open arms. As for ppl against it - why get up at 2am in the morning to change a skill when a queue can do it for you??
Hariya	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:33:00 - [245] Originally by: Agentosma As for ppl against it - why get up at 2am in the morning to change a skill when a queue can do it for you?? Because it rewards. You do it, you get something extra back.
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.06 18:07:00 - [246] Why don't we make the skill queue work like emergency warp does? That means NO queue at all normally, BUT if the server is down while a skill completes, a long skill, which you previously chose, is automatically activated. Though I realize that if the server is down, then it might not have the capability to manage skills at all(Which is probably why ccp is not responding to these threads) Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Night Doc Orekaria	Posted - 2007.11.06 18:50:00 - [247] I think it should be done. 1 queued skill seems the best for me. The idea of the Skill called: give-me-that-sp-lost-due-to-unspected-downtime looks great too and so easy. ---------- - Target analysis - Fit EVE window to monitor
Amber Shade	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:55:00 - [248] //SIGNED// Again The downtime today sucked, since i came home for lunch and put a 30 mins skill on, so i could put its 6 hour next level on so it would be done by the time I got home from work. If not a skill queue, then at least go right into the next level of a skill. Since SP does't accumulate when your account isn't valid there is no way to start Battleship I-V whiel you aren't paying
Kanarue Shinohara Gallente production management team	Posted - 2007.11.07 06:20:00 - [249] Since skill queues would give players such a great advantage, CCP could use some extra income: An extra $5/month for the privilege. (Or +$2/month if CCP decides $5 is too steep.) ______________ I actually like the name "carebear." Quite kawaii, really. For the love of God, you'd better read 4, 6, 7, 19 & 20.
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.11.07 10:53:00 - [250] Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara Since skill queues would give players such a great advantage, CCP could use some extra income: An extra $5/month for the privilege. (Or +$2/month if CCP decides $5 is too steep.) Hurm? We've already paid for the training time! You're suggesting double speed or something? That will never happen. A queue doesn't increase training speed. It would just make it easier to manage the existing training time.
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.07 21:26:00 - [251] The $5 would allow you to train all your alts as well on an account. That would be very useful, IMO, and well worth the extra money. I'd pay it TODAY if they did this.
Kirmok	Posted - 2007.11.07 21:42:00 - [252] As a truck driver who goes on the road for periods of time without the ability to log in...this would be a dream come true. Also great for the military guys who continue to pay while deployed
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:45:00 - [253] Edited by: Plekto on 08/11/2007 00:47:37 Thinking more about it, CCP should at least allow a backup skill. That way when it times out, it automatically starts the ONE skill we've set up. Something long like BS level 5. So at least downtime and missed minutes and hours add up to a useful skill over time. I don't see how CCP could possibly have a problem with this.(this would also allow you to keep training a skill through level 5 if you set the same skill, obviously) P.S. I lost 6 hours today at work, too. Could have trained another skill from level 2 to level 3.
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:45:00 - [254] Originally by: Plekto The $5 would allow you to train all your alts as well on an account. That would be very useful, IMO, and well worth the extra money. I'd pay it TODAY if they did this. Skill queuing is not about acquiring bonus training but about using what is already paid for. It's no issue to allocate a small amount of the existing training time to a low skill alt in the spare slots. Another account is more useful for a serious alt and that's what we can pay extra for.
Lyn Valwyn	Posted - 2007.11.09 14:39:00 - [255] Please CCP! A skill queue would (again) have prevented me from loosing a(nother) day's worth of skill points and saved me the annoyance... RL, network issues, server outage, these all can hit you at the wrong time and if you have no access to EVE for a lengthy period afterwards for whatever reason, well, you would not want to be around when we get back and notice that no skill was training for so loooong a time AGAIN! A skill queue would make everyone (but the griefers) happy... Please!
Athelas Loraiel Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.11.09 21:34:00 - [256] signed for s que!
VB Sarge	Posted - 2007.11.10 00:54:00 - [257] quit reading after the first few posts, but i can imagine the back and forth that's gone on about this. i do a ton of time management due to skill training, as in, when i go to work, i train skills that will end about the same time i get back, to minimize lost training time. if there is a que implemented, i'd be almost in favor of a que that continues the current skill up to lvl 5. As in, I start lvl 1, and it keeps going through lvl 2 and 3, etc, until it's stopped or changed. This requires a lot less forethought and planning and curbs part of what makes this game so great though. plusses and minusses. I half heartedly support this motion.
Zyrus Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.10 09:02:00 - [258] I would even be glad about the possibility to mark the next learning skill, which would the automatically started. So not a queue but only one skill to allow continous training without standing up in the middle of the night... Don't laugh about that! I guess 90% of the long time players have already done that! Zyrus
Elias Riker	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:17:00 - [259] Another option How about that when a particular skill has trained, the SAME skill automatically starts training to the next level. It of course stops at lvl 5.
Roy Winters	Posted - 2007.11.20 06:16:00 - [260] Just my .02 isk here If a skills queue was added it would eliminate the need for the reminder "to set a long skills training" for patch day, as most folks would already have a long skill set in a "secondary training slot". I know it is not much of an incentive to add this feature, but honestly this is something that is needed.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.11.20 09:24:00 - [261] Originally by: Elias Riker Another option How about that when a particular skill has trained, the SAME skill automatically starts training to the next level. It of course stops at lvl 5. would also be nice.. mostly i think the reason not to add skill queue is the fact that it would be way to easy to have a ton of alts, but the fact is that the devs want people to have a bunch of alts, so i don't see what they think the problem with adding it is?
Errata Aphra	Posted - 2007.11.22 00:10:00 - [262] Originally by: Mala Kai A skill queue would be slow death for EVE. A slow death is better than a fast death (longer game life = more money). Completely ignoring hundreds of player requests by not creating this ability at all would be a much faster death. Looking at it this way, EVE is destined to die at some time or another regardless of what they do, so why not give queuing to us now? :P However they do queues is fine with me, just so long as it doesn't make skill training harder / more complicated / longer. Like everyone else, I just need something that can take care of skills while I'm away from the computer doing other things. My hat's in the ring. Along with 2 ISK. Heck, I'll throw in all my ISK.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.11.22 14:09:00 - [263] Originally by: Hariya Because it rewards. You do it, you get something extra back. Really? What? I've never seen any difference, if at all, I'd suspect that micromanaging skills lowers your sp/hour, even if only for a few sp. Originally by: Dubious Drewski Though I realize that if the server is down, then it might not have the capability to manage skills at all(Which is probably why ccp is not responding to these threads) Shouldn't matter - the server should know the duration of absence, and can calculate the number of SP you would have gained during that time, were it active. -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Sekket Caldari White-Noise Skunk-Works	Posted - 2007.11.22 16:07:00 - [264] I prefer my suggestion
Nigel Sheldon	Posted - 2007.11.22 19:18:00 - [265] i can't see the problem with skill cues, and i can't see why people against such a thing would be against it in the first place. It doesn't give anyone a advantage or disadvantage so stop pretending it will. The simple fact of the matter is that EVE is a game, and most people have something that is called a REAL LIFE. I currently would be training Cloaking up to LVL 4, but considering i have real life issues which i have no need to dicuss here, i can't, cause i can't run eve. This is where a skill cue (that you would have to learn btw) would come in so handy. I could then set it, so once lvl 2 is complete it would automatically start lvl 3 and so forth. If you use the idea of it as a skill unto itself. Lvl 1 lets you cue 1 skill lvl 2 two skills andso forth, you could either choose to do this or not. you could call it something like skill progression, and put a high rank on it, and needing your learning skills up high. But this is my opinon and it means nothing. But i just feel it doesn't give an advantage or disadvantage to anyone, it is just simply more convientant (spelt wrong sorry..hope you know what i mean)
Kri'th	Posted - 2007.11.23 19:37:00 - [266] Even being able to queue up one skill. Please please please listen to us!
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Magellan Exploration and Survey Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.11.27 00:32:00 - [267] Obligatory nag post. Please CCP, implement this for your casual players and those with demanding real lives. =================================================== Yuri
Amarr Holymight Amarr deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.11.28 03:36:00 - [268] Originally by: Emylissan Originally by: SauronTheMage I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk. That's easy to fix. Once the skill is done training, have the system check to see if you are subscribed. If not, training stops. If you are, training moves to next in que. true, thats a solution for that problem, however i hope they dont remove the skilltraining continuing after the payment expired from the game. Hehe didn't you just contradict yourself there? I think the single skill queue is fine ppl can have a backup one in case the server goes belly up for a day again. Also the check if you are subscribed before allowing the skill queue is a fine idea to stopthe farmers. Is this possible I don't see why not? Is it exploitable I would like to see an explanation to how it maybe.
Solbright altaltaltaltt	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:30:00 - [269] Originally by: Amarr Holymight I think the single skill queue is fine ppl can have a backup one in case the server goes belly up for a day again. More than one is better still. Quote: Also the check if you are subscribed before allowing the skill queue is a fine idea to stopthe farmers. Huh? That'll have no impact against farmers, everyone gets the same improvement. Quote: Is it exploitable I would like to see an explanation to how it maybe. Not exploitable but farmers will love it. Further reading - Not a skill queue
Amarr Holymight Amarr deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:35:00 - [270] I can see it will improve the life of farmers but if you have it so it checks whether your account is activated as was said earlier this eliminates non subscribers laying on two long skills. How about if you train a skill it keeps training to level 5 til you change it?
Solbright altaltaltaltt	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:03:00 - [271] Originally by: Amarr Holymight if you have it so it checks whether your account is activated as was said earlier this eliminates non subscribers laying on two long skills. Lol, obviously. There is no way CCP would give away even more free training time. This is a non-issue and has nothing to do with farming. How about if you train a skill it keeps training to level 5 til you change it? A real queue is better and can compensate for farmers.
Amarr Holymight Amarr deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.11.29 03:28:00 - [272] Edited by: Amarr Holymight on 29/11/2007 03:29:19 Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt Originally by: Amarr Holymight if you have it so it checks whether your account is activated as was said earlier this eliminates non subscribers laying on two long skills. Lol, obviously. There is no way CCP would give away even more free training time. This is a non-issue and has nothing to do with farming. Its not giving away more free training time ?? You still can only leave one skill training while your account is offline. As in the suggestion that was made asks why not have a skill queue that is active while you are still subscribing but can detect when you are not before it goes to the next skill. Thus only alowing the skill q for subscribers and not eliminating the old way of being able to leave one skill training.
Ereinion Erinsal	Posted - 2007.11.29 03:51:00 - [273] I have easily lost a week from crappy school interfering with my ability to log in and change a skill before i head out to the bus, this would save me the frustration of "oh ****, I forgot to change my skill.
Solbright altaltaltaltt	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:11:00 - [274] Originally by: Amarr Holymight Thus only alowing the skill q for subscribers and not eliminating the old way of being able to leave one skill training. Ya, there is no change needed, training terminates at end of current skill like always. And, yes, this method of skill completing is free training time. CCP could, instead, have the training terminate the moment the account expires. Nobody wants it to change and a queue wouldn't change it so it's not really talked about.
Amarr Holymight Amarr deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:56:00 - [275] Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt Originally by: Amarr Holymight ""Nobody wants it to change and a queue wouldn't change it so it's not really talked about."" That is ridiculous statement, if nobody wants it to change why are there so many posts about it and people wondering if it is possible. Have you been sent here by CCP to disrupt the momentum of this thread with flaming rhetoric please be constructive here!! Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt Originally by: Amarr Holymight And, yes, this method of skill completing is free training time. How is it free training time if the queue is only available to paying subscribers as suggested? Have you not comprehended what ppl are talking about here? There is surely a way that can please both casual paying subscriber and not have a negative effect on the gameplay and that would be to only allow a queue to occur while subscribed otherwise normal gameplay resumes win win for everyone.
Solbright altaltaltaltt	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:06:00 - [276] Originally by: Amarr Holymight Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt Nobody wants it to change and a queue wouldn't change it so it's not really talked about. That is ridiculous statement, if nobody wants it to change why are there so many posts about it and people wondering if it is possible. That wasn't about queuing, that was about the gift of finishing the current skill when the account expires. Quote: Quote: And, yes, this method of skill completing is free training time. How is it free training time if the queue is only available to paying subscribers as suggested? Have you not comprehended what ppl are talking about here? Again, I was talking about the existing gift, not queuing. Quote: There is surely a way that can please both casual paying subscriber and not have a negative effect on the gameplay and that would be to only allow a queue to occur while subscribed otherwise normal gameplay resumes win win for everyone. Absolutely. Try reading some of my earlier posts. I had attempted to explain that a full queue is the way to go. Anything less creates problems.
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.11.30 08:10:00 - [277] Yes I have seen all your previous troll.. ahem I mean comments.
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.11.30 08:30:00 - [278] If you create an infinite or 100 skill queue a farmer will setup an account for 3-12 months give his character all his skill books and let him train away only to log on when he needs to start a new skill(farmer heaven!). A one or two (preferably one) skill, skill queue can't really help the farmers too this extent and will help the casual gamer enough to strike a balance in making the game more accessible to new players. Reasons for a short skill queue 1. It can be used during server downtime as a back up so we don't lose any skill training through no fault of our own. This includes unexpected server crashes!!! 2. Allow for casual gamers or ppl to carry on with their everyday lives to train those hard to get 2 skills during their 9 hours of work. 3. Doesn't improve the life of a farmer enough to be hazardous to the game. (This is not our main concern anyway it's CCP who are losing out so let them deal with it). Reasons against long queue. 1. Long absenteeism from the game shouldn't be rewarded. If you have been afk a few months you shouldn't have as much skillpoints as the person who has been playing the game and providing towards it during this time they will rightfully feel cheated. 2. Farmers would have a field day with this notion setting up umpteen characters as it would be easy and not time consuming for them to have 50+ characters training. 3. It's not needed so why implement just cause we can?
Solbright altaltaltaltt	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:59:00 - [279] Originally by: Amarr Holymight Yes I have seen all your previous troll.. ahem I mean comments. That's debatable. Quote: If you create an infinite or 100 skill queue a farmer will setup an account for 3-12 months give his character all his skill books and let him train away only to log on when he needs to start a new skill(farmer heaven!). One more time - Charging ISK solves that. The cash cost to purchase the GTCs to use the queue just has to offset the ease of use and thereby holding the sell price for farmed pilots at the current level. Quote: A one or two (preferably one) skill, skill queue can't really help the farmers too this extent and will help the casual gamer enough to strike a balance in making the game more accessible to new players. Yes it can! Quote: Long absenteeism from the game shouldn't be rewarded. And it won't be. The skill system is not a reward for being active. It maybe considered a reward for forking over lots of cash though. It's not much more than a progressive content enabler. Quote: If you have been afk a few months you shouldn't have as much skillpoints as the person who has been playing the game and providing towards it during this time they will rightfully feel cheated. Don't see why this is an issue. If some dork wants to throw away all that cash and not even play the game then that's his loss. Shouldn't be a concern of anyone else.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:25:00 - [280] The only thing that people found against the skill queue is 'farmers'? Someone earning real money by building characters will spend the necessary time and log on nights to secure his investment. Other players that actually have a life do not wake p on nights for skills and are ****ed to oblivion when they can't find a long enough skill before going on holidays! If the reasoning behind no skill queue is just 'farmers exploit it', why not remove mining, belt NPCs, forbid usage of evemon or any skill planning tool, destroy all API keys because the auto skill update may help them... Such reasoning takes good features away from eula abiding players! If everything that could be used to create value (may be in isk, SP, items or anything that can be sold for real money) was not implemented or removed from the game, then, there would be nothing in Eve! Now, see that nothing can be done ingame against a full time man paid 2 cents a day in a hole of a third world country spending his days switching skill trainings and farming NPCs. The way to act against such bad busyness is to catch them when selling on ebay, not killing the game by not making the features that would ease up everyone on an aspect of the game that is not user friendly for people with a life. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:00:00 - [281] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac The only thing that people found against the skill queue is 'farmers'? Someone earning real money by building characters will spend the necessary time and log on nights to secure his investment. ...etc Yes it's so true. I hark back to an earlier comment probably the only one Solbright didn't quote ,in reference to farmers "This is not our main concern anyway it's CCP who are losing out so let them deal with it". Farming a character is not half as bad as isk farming anyway. It can only affect CCPs pockets not the IG economy which is our concern. A skill queue should be available permanently for FREE! to protect against server crashes RL issues etc.
Sheila Chandra	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:18:00 - [282] I think a skill queue would be a very bad idea. Currently you can for example start a very time intensive skill the day your account runs out, then leave it disabled for the skill and reactivate your account a month later or so and the skill is done. If we now would have a queue (especially one with a lot skills to queue up), this would be done often that people just add months over months of training, 2 or 3 times a year reactivate the account and in a year or 2 they would have a great skilled PvP char for costs of half a billion they could sell in forums then for 5 billions or more... Also currently what most people do when they know they arent there to change skills, is just let it run a while and then switch to something longer. Theres always more then one skilling path to be done and i never had it happen yet that this didnt work well, so theres no real need for it even...
Remko Marr Caldari First And Only CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:28:00 - [283] Edited by: Remko Marr on 30/11/2007 23:28:33 Agh, how many times has this been said already? The solution is simple: have the queue deactivate when you suspend your account.
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.12.01 01:13:00 - [284] Originally by: Remko Marr Edited by: Remko Marr on 30/11/2007 23:28:33 Agh, how many times has this been said already? The solution is simple: have the queue deactivate when you suspend your account. Yes it is quite frustrating I've said in a bout three of my posts and you also. Are people just not getting their heads around it ??? Skill queue system for paying subscribers account runs out no skill system. ugga bugga
Lenus Daragio coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:48:00 - [285] Here's my proposition for the skill training queue, so listen closely, and yes I'm aware this may be hard to implement. Don't do a training queue, make it so that if you log on within 24 hours of your skill training completing, and you train a new skill, you regain the time you lost in skill points for that next skill as long as you complete it's training. That is, you'd lose the training time if pause it and switch skills. Call it a rested bonus, which only applies to your next skill if you complete training to the next level. You don't have to worry about farmers, active players aren't losing precious training time, everyone should be happy. __________________________________________________
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:41:00 - [286] Edited by: Solbright altalt on 04/12/2007 20:42:39 Originally by: Lenus Daragio You don't have to worry about farmers, active players aren't losing precious training time, everyone should be happy. Sigh, yes it does help farmers.
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:42:00 - [287] Edited by: Amarr Holymight on 04/12/2007 20:42:15 Why is everybody so worried about farmers its like a psychosomatic illness.
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:45:00 - [288] Simply because it's an argument that is used to say "don't change the training system".
Neu Bastian	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:07:00 - [289] A multiple skill queue seems like too much of a benefit to off-line training. People who are on vacation or have RL issues that prevent them from playing for extended periods of time EVE should be worrying about having fun on their vacation or solving their RL stuff and not character training. Something to prevent the loss of training over a smallish period of time how ever, like unscheduled DT, ISP problems, work, etc, would be nice. Hence my proposal, which I'm sure has been mentioned before, too. A small, official, skill switcher program with a few other options like chat channels, market check, hide-from-boss feature, etc. Would also help some of the skill changing issues. Something small enough to carry on your pen drive while you're on vacations perhaps, or that you could use in your mobile phone while you're settling your divorce and living in a hotel if EVE is oh so important. I would favor this over any queue or the likes. Its been mentioned before, but didn't find any thread to link in a quick search. Also Weather or not any method helps farmers is irrelevant. CCP should find a way to deal with it on their own terms. However farmers do give money to CCP every now and then so I question how big of a priority solving that is. Also some people "farm" for their own ISK supply and not exchange it for RL money which probably isn't against the terms of use, but I can't be sure. Neu
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.12.06 06:27:00 - [290] Originally by: Neu Bastian A multiple skill queue seems like too much of a benefit to off-line training. Obviously it's a benefit, that's why we want the thing. It means one can set up the queue when one is playing the game instead of having to think about what's next all the time. I can't see how it can be too much of a benefit - There is no impact on in-game functions. Quote: People who are on vacation or have RL issues that prevent them from playing for extended periods of time EVE should be worrying about having fun on their vacation or solving their RL stuff and not character training. Precisely! This is why some have said they'd very much like to have a full queue and it's no problem to make it a full queue so I say do it. Quote: Something to prevent the loss of training over a smallish period of time how ever, like unscheduled DT, ISP problems, work, etc, would be nice. Hence my proposal, which I'm sure has been mentioned before, too. Many times. It's the primary reason for all. Quote: A small, official, skill switcher program with a few other options like chat channels, market check, hide-from-boss feature, etc. Would also help some of the skill changing issues. Something small enough to carry on your pen drive while you're on vacations perhaps, or that you could use in your mobile phone while you're settling your divorce and living in a hotel if EVE is oh so important. Ho-hum. A lot of extra work for everyone, imho. A full queue is superior in every sense. Quote: Also Weather or not any method helps farmers is irrelevant. CCP should find a way to deal with it on their own terms. Please read my previous post. Quote: However farmers do give money to CCP every now and then so I question how big of a priority solving that is. Also some people "farm" for their own ISK supply and not exchange it for RL money which probably isn't against the terms of use, but I can't be sure. Hurm? Character farming is the concern, not ISK farming. Please read the last few pages of this thread. You might notice most of your ideas are already covered in more detail.
Lyssandros	Posted - 2007.12.06 08:03:00 - [291] I got an idea of an much faster and cheaper solution, just make a web application where you can select the next skill to train.(Like in the game if you select another while one still running the first gets paused etc.) You can only access it if you are logged in into your eve account on this page. That would help alot of peoples, because its much more easier to find some web access instead of finding an computer with eve on it in a network which has the ports open. This would actually be just some lines of php or on this page asp. I didnt read all pages in this thread so perhaps someone already proposed this idea.
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.12.06 09:12:00 - [292] Sigh, can't anyone read!? That doesn't work, it gives farmers lots with no penalty at all. Not to mention it still requires you to be getting stressed over it while working. That's just not good practice.
Lyssandros	Posted - 2007.12.06 09:48:00 - [293] Originally by: Solbright altalt Sigh, can't anyone read!? That doesn't work, it gives farmers lots with no penalty at all. Not to mention it still requires you to be getting stressed over it while working. That's just not good practice. I dont think you read or atleast understood my post, I am just suggesting to make it possible to train a new skill over the web without login into the Game. Nothing qith queue or whatever, so what advantage has a farmer who sits nearly the whole day at an PC with Eve? Right nearly none he just hasnt to switch between his 10 accounts. (He actually has to switch the accounts but only on the website) The biggest advantage would be for the people who work or study. And to the stress part well it would need about 30 secs of your attention. To set a new skill in.
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.12.06 11:26:00 - [294] Originally by: Lyssandros Right nearly none he just hasnt to switch between his 10 accounts. (He actually has to switch the accounts but only on the website) It's pretty clear that there would be a API addition that could be utilised by existing data mining programs - the result would be fully automated skill changing. I could prolly accept running such programs but I doubt CCP would be so happy with the plummeting value of farmed pilots. Quote: The biggest advantage would be for the people who work or study. And to the stress part well it would need about 30 secs of your attention. To set a new skill in. A queue is better: It's fully integrated. It eliminates those 30 seconds growing into 30 minutes. And at the same time a queue can have a counter balance to farming.
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.12.06 11:29:00 - [295] And for the situation where somehow API automation is prevented, a queue is far superior to having to go online at all.
Lyssandros	Posted - 2007.12.06 11:32:00 - [296] Originally by: Solbright altalt And for the situation where somehow API automation is prevented, a queue is far superior to having to go online at all. You are right it is worse than a queue, but this would be an quick and cheap solution and atleast its better than now. For some queue i guess you have to w8 atleast to the next major patch.
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.12.06 12:12:00 - [297] Originally by: Lyssandros ... but this would be an quick and cheap solution and atleast its better than now. That's debatable. The existing system will update the pilot's live data only when you are ingame. Adding externally controlled skill changes will be the same complexity as adding an ingame queue. Quote: For some queue i guess you have to w8 atleast to the next major patch. Nah, there is nothing stopping CCP doing any method at any time.
Lyssandros	Posted - 2007.12.06 12:27:00 - [298] Edited by: Lyssandros on 06/12/2007 12:30:56 Originally by: Solbright altalt That's debatable. The existing system will update the pilot's live data only when you are ingame. Adding externally controlled skill changes will be the same complexity as adding an ingame queue. If you know a little bit about databases and programming, you'd knew there is nothing to discuss. But I'll try to explain it to you. All your account infos are stored in a Database.(i.e. Name, Password, Money, Skills etc.). And you can access an Database through the web or compiled code doesnt matter for the DB. But if you change something Ingame you have to compile the code new and distribute it to all users. The web access just needs some lines of php or asp code on the server where the website is. Edit:This will be my last post, my suggestion stands above.
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2007.12.06 12:36:00 - [299] Originally by: Lyssandros And you can access an Database through the web or compiled code doesnt matter for the DB. Lol, there is no way you'll be allowed to specify completion time of a skill. Or that a skill is done yet. Or what skills are already trained. Anything like that can be cheated. So, either the API has to have all the ingame calculations and related tracking functions added to it, or it just queues the requests until you are next ingame.
Maalan Caldari Lutin Group Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.12.06 13:48:00 - [300] Originally by: Amarr Holymight Reasons against long queue. 1. Long absenteeism from the game shouldn't be rewarded. If you have been afk a few months you shouldn't have as much skillpoints as the person who has been playing the game and providing towards it during this time they will rightfully feel cheated. 2. Farmers would have a field day with this notion setting up umpteen characters as it would be easy and not time consuming for them to have 50+ characters training. 3. It's not needed so why implement just cause we can? 1. Deactivate the skill queue when the account shuts down. 2. Farmers who make money off their accounts probably wont really care if they are updating skills every hour or every week, this is a money making job. 3. Adding a way to automatically loot cans with all the point an click is not necessary but I'd like to see this too to remove the annoyance and limit carpel tunnel issues. Annoyances removed = good. Just my 0.02ISK --- You think you are a pirate? You should see how much I made selling you that ship you just went and got blown up... ((Until CCP admits what I look like please pretend my face looks normal))
Khald Gallente Armaments Board	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:00:00 - [301] Skills should continue after your sibscription expires. When you re-subscribe you can get the option of paying for the gap and getting the skill points or not paying for the gap and not getting the skill points. Everyone wins. CCP gets cash from legit payers and farmers have to keep accounts current.
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:42:00 - [302] Guys you are arguing in circles, farmers don't need skill queues they dont have lives that's why they farm. A skill queue isn't gonna change the farming situation that's up to CCP. Also why do you care just enjoy the game let other people enjoy the game if it goes bust go find another a game to play. Bring on the skill queue.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.07 00:34:00 - [303] sure signed
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.07 08:35:00 - [304] /signed - web interface would be nice also... -- --my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance--
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.07 12:50:00 - [305] A very important feature of EVE is the skill training system. This very important feature requires little effort from a subscriber. The effort needed is to log in and start training a new level of a skill or a completely new skill. Sometimes you need to log in often and sometimes weeks can pass without needing to log in. For this, in my opinion, very small effort you get a huge reward which is that you donÆt need to actively train your skills! This brings me to the following. How can an adult person expect to get something in return without any effort? DonÆt YOU as an adult person know that anything in life worth getting costs something? All of you who want a skill queue system obviously think you should be equally rewarded as them players who actually take the time and effort to be online upon skill completion. Now, some of you will argue that you pay real life money to play this game and thus are entitled to a skill queue. This is, in my opinion, the same as arguing for a feature where I should be able to pre-set how my ship should behave in various situations. This also is a no go from my point of view! Of course I understand most of EVE players, me included, have a real life and everything that goes along with it, family, work, trips, etc. Since we live in the 21st century I strongly believe a skill manager via the browser will resolve most issues, if not all, regarding skill advancement without a skill queue. Skill completion during unexpected down time is a special case from which all players eventually suffer from. Actually, the only reason for a skill queue system is unexpected downtime because that is the one and only thing in EVE you cannot control and align with rest of your life. Some will argue that reason alone is enough for implementing a skill queue. I donÆt agree with that! Why? Unexpected downtime affects more than skill advancement. Unexpected downtime can occur on that very day which is the only day during that week you actually have time to spend a few hours and play the game. Would this be a reason to argue for an extrapolation system which calculates the amount of ISK you should have earned? Or the number of players you should have killed? To conclude: NO to a skill queue and YES to a skill manager via a browser!
Valera Schwert	Posted - 2007.12.07 15:50:00 - [306] A skill manager via browser would be the same as a skill queue. It's easy to write a script that acts like an IE or FF that can start/stop the training of a skill. And there we have a skill queue again.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:40:00 - [307] So much quote wars in those forums... Always the great fear of macro, farmers and more : all the unholy words that should make a stop to any useful idea! -If there's a skill queue, everyone will have it, so it can't be unfair to anyone. -If the issue is with people having months of skills left and cancelling subscribtion, then, the account deactivation procedure should just cancel all skill training and plans. Now, everyone should stop with the unholy words and think how it improves or it is indifferent to their gameplay. Saying no to something that is not useful to you is a nonsense, it can be useful to someone else. Let me find an equivalent situation : -You fly only race A ships. -New ships are going to be made for all races for a profession as gas cloud harvesting. => You say no to gas cloud harvesting ships of races B, C and D because you don't want to use them. It is the exact same situation here : -You manage your skill plans with tools allowing you for skill changes at the time you can play, and you are never away, you are always back on time from work/school or you are just always at home. -Skill queue is being added. => You say no to skill queue because you don't want to use it. The fact is : When something is not useful for you, others will like it and use it. Let those who want something useful for them ask for it and don't troll with false 'good' reasons. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:36:00 - [308] Quote: Saying no to something that is not useful to you is a nonsense, it can be useful to someone else. Yes this I agree with it seems all the neersayers aren't going to be affected by skillqueue so why all the detriment. Connor didn't you read about the skill queues that only have one skill in it or like most people here just read from the original post and gambled that most people here don't have anything intelligent to say on the matter. I came to a quandry the other day when the server was going down for 24 hours I only had one skill (from my plan) longer than a day available to me unless I decided to sidetrain for something ugh. I ended up having to partially train a 24 day skill that I won't finish/need for about three months. In this time I coulda trained for something more pertinent to my immediate needs. So these two days were slightly wasted. The last time the server crashed I lost 16 hours training cause it crashed on a friday and I couldn't reasonbably log on til the Saturday afternoon. Overall that's two and a half days off my current plan. These are my reasons for wanting merely a one skill backup plan why would you prevent me and I'm sure a lot of other people in the same boat this? Am I being childish me thinks not.
Wardo21 The Arcanum	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:59:00 - [309] I am so glad this game doesn't use kills -> XP -> better skills training metrics. I would even be happy if the system just selected the same skill at the next level if you missed the opportunity to login and change it. Not sure what the logic would be for a skill just completing level 5, but that's a minor detail. I would even settle for a system that just looked for the first partially trained skill and started that one next. You want to queue up 5-6 skills, then train them for a minute each and logoff. From a game fluff point of view, I'm stuck in a pod full of goo 23-7 (ambulation aside), apparently getting some intense REM sleep during the downtime... Also, I have this nifty AI in my ship/pod that does all the tutorials and whatnot. Can't she remind me when it's time to select another skill. Furthermore the training is plugged directly into my head through the neural link to the ship, so can't the ships computer be setup to sequence the skills I want to learn??? There is a disconnect between the game world realities (fluff) and the user interface we interact with to play the game.
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:16:00 - [310] Wardo21, if EVE is so advanced as you say why arent there pre-setups for PVE and PVP situations which are executable with pushing a single keyboard button, like "if a battleship drops from warp nearby i should immediatly align with nearest station and warp out"? Why cant you save a couple of ship setups which you then load from the main frame? Why arent there....all those reasons are explained with: eve is not a make-a-script-and-go-to-sleep-game...that includes a skill queue.
Astria Tiphareth	Posted - 2007.12.09 18:16:00 - [311] \Signed It doesn't surprise me that there are people naysaying this who clearly have no real life, like to pretend they are hardcore by bashing those asking for more convenient features, and can be on all hours of the day to train a skill. What it usually translates into is 'I gained something better because of having loads of time to train, and I don't want others to gain that as well'. Well the world of EVE may well be unfair, but there's a thin line between unfair and offputting. If I have one that finishes at 3 am, it's my fault for not being hardcore enough to get up to change it? Alternatively I'm reduced to micro-managing my skills to try and get them complete whilst matching the few times I can be on to set them during the week. This isn't playing the game, it's making the game frustrating and slower. I'm not able to play the game at those times, yet I have to try and get on to manage skills? Who wants to do that? If CCP wishes to continue to appeal to mature players who do have other things to do (like sleep and work) then a skill queue of some form of at least 1 skill to follow the currently training one is a must, and has no impact on the game whatsoever. If I want to achieve the levels for a given ship, in an ideal world I could achieve it in, say, a couple of weeks. With all the micro-managing crap, I'm lucky if it's a month because I (understandably and fairly I think) want to utilise all available time to train, yet can't just train those specific skills because they don't fit with my real world times. In the mean time, some kid is able to train up skills more efficiently due to having no life, and so can be more effective sooner than me simply due to having more time? Really fair. CCP needs to answer a simple question - do they mean to make the skill system fair to all players, or skew it in favour of those who can be on all the time? If it's the latter, I don't see why I bothered subscribing, as I've already lost out compared even to my peers. Someone once reviewed EVE as a great game, poorly implemented. It's missing features like these that give rise to that sort of comment. I don't particularly care how it's implemented as long as I can either a) from anywhere in the world just using a web browser pick a next skill, or b) set up a short-term queue. I'd have plenty of time for the idea of EVEMon being able to set skills as well as simulate them.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.12.10 08:56:00 - [312] Originally by: Connor Banks For this, in my opinion, very small effort you get a huge reward which is that you donÆt need to actively train your skills! Wait a second, you actually think that getting SP for time is a REWARD? It's an inherent attribute of the game, not a reward or punishment or anything of the sort. It just is. We don't do anything to get SP, we just get them. The cost we pay is that we have to wait, not that someone(or something) has to start the game and click a button. -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.10 18:21:00 - [313] Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind We don't do anything to get SP, we just get them. Fail! You have to log in or be online to start training a skill. Those who actually do that are rewarded with skill points dumbass.
Connor Banks Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.11 11:22:00 - [314] Originally by: Valera Schwert A skill manager via browser would be the same as a skill queue. It's easy to write a script that acts like an IE or FF that can start/stop the training of a skill. And there we have a skill queue again. The skill manager would of course be a tool accessible only from EVE Online homepage. You would then have to log in and click your way around similarly to the way you do in the character sheet ingame. So, NO, skill managing via a browser would not allow for scripting and thus is not equal to a skill queue.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:24:00 - [315] Originally by: Connor Banks Originally by: Valera Schwert A skill manager via browser would be the same as a skill queue. It's easy to write a script that acts like an IE or FF that can start/stop the training of a skill. And there we have a skill queue again. The skill manager would of course be a tool accessible only from EVE Online homepage. You would then have to log in and click your way around similarly to the way you do in the character sheet ingame. So, NO, skill managing via a browser would not allow for scripting and thus is not equal to a skill queue. A web interface that would not allow for scripting? Would you require us to read an image each time we log on the eve site? Make a web interface and skill planners programs will just connect and switch the skill. The fact we have to log and click on the skill improves the gameplay and the eve universe? This is the worse excuse I heard for not having a skill queue. People just connect switch skill, log off when they don't have time to play. How is this positive for the eve community? Explain me. Wouldn't it be better that their skill changes automatically and that they only come when they play for real? We pay to play, we don't pay for skills, or we are not players. As the improvements are for players and not anyone else, adding a skill queue would limit the average player hassle when it comes to skill training. Explain me how it is negative or not an improvement. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Mayobe	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:04:00 - [316] Skill queue? Sure! Then I don't have to feed that monkey I stole from the zoo and keep locked in my basement. /signed
Fang Fox	Posted - 2007.12.14 09:34:00 - [317] I've read a lot of posts about this and I for one am all for it! I used to work 12 hours shifts 5 days a week at a job one and 1.5 hours, my life for those days went as follows wake up, get dressed leave for work, get off work, eat, go home, shower, sleep. So yeah maybe I do have that extra minute to log on and change my skills... and my days off I can train the shorter skills. But really what options does that leave me? Ok so I want to train for heavy assault lt ships, its sunday the start of my work week. OH no nothing fits in 24 hours... or heck maybe i can get up a bit earlier from my normal 6-7 hours of sleep! No wait nothing overlaps 15 hours that I need. WELL might as well train Frigate V until thursday.... Couple weeks of that and guess what frigate V is done... weeks go by now everything I got left is under 12 hours because I've had to keep switching though skills and now I've started training into skill groups I don't even want or need. Ok so now I just start eating the lost time, I then end up with a character who is 10 months old with 5m sp, and cant do much of what I want him to do. I know my case was a bit dramatic and even with a queue I would need to do some work around and take some sp hits. Now in some other MMORPGS sure I wouldn't be very high level due the fact I'd actually have to be there but the character would go in the direction I really wanted to without jumping through extra hoops. Now I already know some of you are going to come back and say "Well go play those then" well I don't want to! I love EVE. Really that has never been a wise argument in my book, imagine if they all did go play something else? Eve would be quite empty These days I work 8 hours at a job 5 minutes away. I recycled my first pilot (Which never made it into a HAC btw) and now with my new one I am able to work out training a lot smother building the pilot I really want and am able to actually enjoy the game ALOT more. Oh last bit. no computer access at my old job. As I'm sure it is for thousands of other eve players so how does a browser based skill change help the situation? I hope for some of you nay sayers this puts things into a little more perspective as to why some times it's not possible to be there. It's not always about being lazy or not good enough to work it in it's about the game and being able to play our characters the way we WANT them to develop instead of training remote armor rep to 80% of level V when you really want to finish those 6 hours of drones V and cant do so untill 4 days which means maybe next week I could actually train heavy drones up to 3 and get 4 a couple weeks from that beacause nothing else fits into your schedule!
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.12.14 09:47:00 - [318] Originally by: Mayobe Skill queue? Sure! Then I don't have to feed that monkey I stole from the zoo and keep locked in my basement. /signed I couldn't get my cat to do that... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Very Bad Things	Posted - 2007.12.16 01:14:00 - [319] I would totally settle for a browser-based skill manger... as long as the site wasn't blocked by the proxy at work like this one is! =================================================== Yuri
velocity7	Posted - 2007.12.16 01:30:00 - [320] Originally by: Yuri Mengeroth I would totally settle for a browser-based skill manger... as long as the site wasn't blocked by the proxy at work like this one is! This and /signed
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Very Bad Things	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:03:00 - [321] Edited by: Yuri Mengeroth on 27/12/2007 00:04:27 so... when will this go from the Drawing Board to In Development? Seems to be quite a popular idea... I mean it takes MUCH less whining to get a swing of the nerf bat.
Dela Darkinna	Posted - 2007.12.28 15:06:00 - [322] Really need this because sometimes even the longest skill training doesn't cover the afk time, at least not mine during the holidays. Happy New Year.
kelvinnunn	Posted - 2007.12.31 00:53:00 - [323] loadsa posts here but have we got any replies from CCP i am currently serving queen and country in the sands and cannot log onto game as there is allsorts of blocks and software gizmos that stop it (not much of a computer hatchet man) still a paying member of the Eve community yet i still dont seea skill which will take an 8 month training window. i know im not the only person who spends time away (not 2 week hols) so surely CCP should be giving us an answer here( cmon throw us a frikkin bone hey) any kinda way that even changing the skill via webpage -through character sheet on that- as already mentioned would be great
Kailahn	Posted - 2008.01.02 13:24:00 - [324] Edited by: Kailahn on 02/01/2008 13:42:34 Edited by: Kailahn on 02/01/2008 13:36:05 here's an idea. i haven't read the entire thread, so maybe its been mentioned before though. have a 'vacation mode' if you are going to be away for a few weeks, or months, or whatever, you set a list of skills for the queue and a length for your vacation. then you activate the 'vacation mode', and are logged off. logging in before your set vacaction time is up results in losing whatever skill points were accumulated during the vacation, or possibly something not quite as harsh. if your subscription expires, only the skill that is training at the time finishes other than something like that, i really dont think a queue is necessary
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:00:00 - [325] Originally by: Kailahn Edited by: Kailahn on 02/01/2008 13:42:34 Edited by: Kailahn on 02/01/2008 13:36:05 here's an idea. i haven't read the entire thread, so maybe its been mentioned before though. have a 'vacation mode' if you are going to be away for a few weeks, or months, or whatever, you set a list of skills for the queue and a length for your vacation. then you activate the 'vacation mode', and are logged off. logging in before your set vacaction time is up results in losing whatever skill points were accumulated during the vacation, or possibly something not quite as harsh. if your subscription expires, only the skill that is training at the time finishes other than something like that, i really dont think a queue is necessary So, if you ever get home one day earlier, you can't play eve because you set the vacation mode or you will loose skillpoints? Sincerely, this simple thought sucks. When I find a computer where I can install eve while on holidays, I install and connect even just to say hi. But I can't be sure in advance if I can do this, so if I set your vacation mode, I should not connect, and if I don't set it and find a computer, I'm as before, not able to learn skills... It's unneeded complications. We need a very very simple thing : -Adding skills in a list as we add waypoints and have the same move up, move down, remove logic. Just a prerequired check (including skils in the list) to be added to this logic and it's cool. AND -The skills should just stop (cancel all training) when subscribtion ends (stop playing 'who can set the longuest skill when disabling his account' game). No more no less, real life always catches you at some point and you can't set your skills, may you be on holidays, on travel for work or a soldier away for months, if you keep paying for your account, having skills train without having to connect to the (heavy and not firewall friendly) eve client is a minimum, you already can't play, at least you would know that after your time away, you will discover new things in eve. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Mortor Calieph	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:14:00 - [326] There is one thing at the top of my list when I consider this topic; how can this be abused ? If the risks are acceptable then the topic or enhanced topic will be a nice benefit to CCP and the player base. After thinking about this for a while I think that with the accepted API protocol for viewing skills leading the way, an expanded protocol for setting skills offline can be implemented without uproar. I favor keeping an interval (15 mins?)between accesses for server load reasons. Only players with active accounts should be able to use the skill setting / queueing serve, of course. There is no downside for CCP or players. In fact, I suspect a good chunk of the player base logs in briefly many times just to make skill changes. Implementing this idea with offline access will most likely, if only a little, improve server performance and allow more active players access instead of facing server logon queues, reduce some lag, etc. I am not seeing a "cheat" factor here. A player pays for an account and uses the account in a fashion that does nothing to interfere with other players' experiences. The skill system is set up for offline activity the only difference is not using the full client to access a feature of the game. The account is paid for, the client is essentially free to download so there is no monetary loss for CCP if 3rd party programs allow for API writes. How can this be abused ? If the full API key or normal user/password (undetermiend access method at this time) is hijacked, skills can be messed with - at the least. However, this is acceptable risk because it is the same risk players have whenever they log on. I realize a web interface / 3rd party should use https or similar protocols for the handshaking (as should the current API interface). This concept can be expanded for more "admin" type actions such as transferring isk between wallets. Examples abound for the benefits with no downside such as a possible cheat that can directly affect another player's experience; e.g., CEO on vacation does some skill flips with his java enabled cell phone on the beach then remembers to transfer some corp isk from the master wallet to the POS budget. He then checks some eve-mail, replies to a few then checks some market items and places a few orders. All the above I consider administration type actions though the market example may be considered interfering with other players at a certain level. The player is not out killing other players, mining or generating isk in an active fashion, not able to go get deliveries. Basically, what is allowed is the same as what can be done while sitting docked. Hmmm CCP..."Remote Dock" ;) Any way, that pretty much sums my take on the offline functions of skills and a few more features. Good Hunting !
Vladimir Titov Minmatar Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:36:00 - [327] Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 03/01/2008 18:42:01 Originally by: Connor Banks Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind We don't do anything to get SP, we just get them. Fail! You have to log in or be online to start training a skill. Those who actually do that are rewarded with skill points dumbass. Jesus almighty I have not laughed that hard in a long time! On a more serious note, I would love a skill training queue. It would solve a whole lot of problems. For me, the problem is that its down time around the time I have to leave for work, so I can't log in and check quickly if I have to change something before work. Also, farmers should not be a factor. They pilot their chars in shifts, and are on 23/7, so they are already not losing any skill time. Man I regularly play the game and I would love this feature. No more getting up at 5:45am to check if I need to change anything before I go to work at 7 am - I could just get up at 6:30am. That whole 45 minutes of sleep makes a big difference. No more going bed, about to go to sleep, when I begin to wonder if I have a skill that will finish while I am sleeping. Do I sleep? Do I drag myself out of bed and double check? A skill queue would be one of those features that really could improve the quality of life for a player.
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.03 19:12:00 - [328] How about this added to it, only people with paying accounts, NOT TRIAL ACCOUNTS, can use the skill queue. I also like the ISK sink too. For each skill in the queue, you have to pay something like 100x it's skill rank per hour that it's queued up. rank 5 skill for 2 days, 240k isk, but if you have something like 5 skills in the queue, all rank 5, then you pay 2500 per hour they are queued. I mean numbers are arbitray, they would have to scale properly, i mean a person who's training a rank 12 skill should be able to fork over enough money to have it in the queue.
kelvinnunn	Posted - 2008.01.04 08:08:00 - [329] a quick bump for this topic trying desperately to get a CCP view on this soon as i am in Iraq just now and have a skill about to finish!! without having to phone some of my mates to change them for me (not the done thing i know)i pannicking!! C'MON CCP please just a skill changer facility on my character sheet which i can access on eve homepage thats all!!
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.04 10:33:00 - [330] Originally by: Tmarte How about this added to it, only people with paying accounts, NOT TRIAL ACCOUNTS, can use the skill queue. I also like the ISK sink too. For each skill in the queue, you have to pay something like 100x it's skill rank per hour that it's queued up. rank 5 skill for 2 days, 240k isk, but if you have something like 5 skills in the queue, all rank 5, then you pay 2500 per hour they are queued. I mean numbers are arbitray, they would have to scale properly, i mean a person who's training a rank 12 skill should be able to fork over enough money to have it in the queue. Why people think it needs to cost isk? I still can't figure why you think it this way. It's casual player unfriendly and using isk is just even more farmer friendly, their income are so high that it's peanuts when it will just hurt hard casual players. Maybe autopilot should cost isk and opening our hangar and docking at a station, and opening eve too? Leave the isk sinks to people who know what they're talking about, leave it to CCP's economist (I won't write his name here, how bad I would scorch his name is really bad). We already can't have interest rates on our sleeping wallets, if you're searching for things closer to reality, there are always banks ready to take your money and make it work in exchange of a few bucks. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.04 13:31:00 - [331] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Originally by: Tmarte How about this added to it, only people with paying accounts, NOT TRIAL ACCOUNTS, can use the skill queue. I also like the ISK sink too. For each skill in the queue, you have to pay something like 100x it's skill rank per hour that it's queued up. rank 5 skill for 2 days, 240k isk, but if you have something like 5 skills in the queue, all rank 5, then you pay 2500 per hour they are queued. I mean numbers are arbitray, they would have to scale properly, i mean a person who's training a rank 12 skill should be able to fork over enough money to have it in the queue. Why people think it needs to cost isk? I still can't figure why you think it this way. It's casual player unfriendly and using isk is just even more farmer friendly, their income are so high that it's peanuts when it will just hurt hard casual players. Maybe autopilot should cost isk and opening our hangar and docking at a station, and opening eve too? Leave the isk sinks to people who know what they're talking about, leave it to CCP's economist (I won't write his name here, how bad I would scorch his name is really bad). We already can't have interest rates on our sleeping wallets, if you're searching for things closer to reality, there are always banks ready to take your money and make it work in exchange of a few bucks. Did i say autopilot should cost isk? .....no Did i say docking should cost isk? ....no Did i say opening eve should cost isk? (It already costs RL money quit putting words in other peoples mouths) ....no Who said anything about banks? I didn't Who said anything about interest rates? I didn't This is an idea and discussion forums. I'm just throwing ideas around ok? I wasn't completely sure I like the idea either but I was in my head as an idea.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.04 14:41:00 - [332] I will rephrase it this way : "Game features should not cost isk." Skill queue is a game feature as autopilot is one. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Smoogle	Posted - 2008.01.05 19:24:00 - [333] I want a skill queue. There are 2 large blocks in Evemon named "sleeping" and "work" and guess what? Almost ALL my skill endings conflict. I had a thought myself: Idea: A 24-hour "rested" buffer for skill training. When a skill finishes training, it starts stacking time into a rested buffer. When the next skill starts, it starts decreasing that buffer, and trains the skill TWICE as fast until the buffer is gone. Side use: Clone jump, leave the buffer filling, then CJ back later into implants and train. But yeah, it would be really nice to just have a long queue ticking away, with near zero wasted time. Upside: When people go away for extended times, they aren't left in the dust. Downside: Char sellers? It doesn't GENERATE isk, at worst, having a queue generates a bunch of characters with no history set up to do specific things. And macro miners might as well have this already. Heck, I have a little program that I could probably find the screen locations and automate a bunch of training anyways. I'm not going to bother.
Morcam	Posted - 2008.01.05 22:35:00 - [334] Since this has been debated over so many times now, I will just say I want this. TBH, all the downsides that they naysayers have listed could be easily countered in some way. What form doesn't really matter, just as long as you get it.
Harvey Hatorat	Posted - 2008.01.07 19:00:00 - [335] Big ole BUMP for the one thing in I'd like to see most in the game!
Tmarte Caldari Krinkle Sack	Posted - 2008.01.07 19:52:00 - [336] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac I will rephrase it this way : "Game features should not cost isk." Skill queue is a game feature as autopilot is one. Fair Enough,
Hari Chinaski	Posted - 2008.01.07 22:53:00 - [337] I had to stay up last night an extra hour and a half to start astrometrics 3 before i went to sleep so i would have it today. That truly sucked ass. I want a queue.
kelvinnunn	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:15:00 - [338] well another bump thats my BS to lvl 5 done now and yet i have 41/2 months away now that sucks ass big time CMON CCP give the public wot they want look wot happened to the Chinese and tieneman square( dont think that has any relevance but id stand in front of a BS to get a skill queue sorted)
Reston Kenner Caldari Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:33:00 - [339] I haven't read all the 12 pages, but here's my 2c (nevermind if this was already proposed). Allow to queue maximum of 1 skill. This way, you will have to log in to queue in next skill, but you won't miss the moment skill training ends - you can queue up at any time while you are logged in. I think this will make skill training more handy, and mostly remove possible abuse. (However, as some skills are quite long in training, coupling this with routine background subscription status check is worthwhile). -- A Problem Must Be Solved, Resolved, Or Dissolved.
Fraxl Bu Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:01:00 - [340] Edited by: Fraxl Bu on 11/01/2008 14:02:11 Signed. A skill queue and an option for dual training would certainly make EVE a much smoother and more enjoyable experience. There's really no good, real, reason not to implement it. Also, a SP buffer, like the one Smoogle described, could be interesting as well. Three different options for handling your training - sounds like music to my ears. This game is all about choice, and giving the player more flexibility in maintaining EVE's most fundamental aspect can only be a good thing.
Zaskarr Amarr Falling Stars Squadron	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:34:00 - [341] Signed At least one skill ahead __________________ How do I shot web?
Kel Dario Amarr Blue Sky Inc	Posted - 2008.01.11 16:25:00 - [342] /Signed 1000 times if it help us get it. I would love to have this feature a few months ago when my computer turned belly up and I couldn't log in for 2 weeks. Except for some rabid fanbois with elitist attitudes that EVE should not be accessible for everyone, I believe that at least 99% of the eve players would love a skill queue even if it is just a simple one. The remaining 1% doesn't have to use it if they feel it are conflicting with their leet gaming style. We only need to set two skills, primary and secondary. When primary is done it start training secondary. Thus I can start train a 3 hour skill but don't have to come home and switch it until eight hours later, usally when work ends. In the meantime it shaves of five hours from secondary that could be a month long skill. But I guess we will still see these kind of threads in a year from now. CCP doesn't seem to want to introduce features that makes it easier for the players who happen to have real lifes. So if they never going to then it would be more honest of them if they deleted the idea from the Drawing Board. Then it would at least put an end to speculation if we are ever going to see it introduced or not.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.11 16:51:00 - [343] Please, say just 'yes, there will be a skill queue with x entries sooner than soon(tm)' or 'go hell, this will not happen'. Such threads have been running for a soooo long time that it makes sense that sometimes you say yes or no. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
NightF0x Gallente Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:07:00 - [344] Originally by: Hari Chinaski I had to stay up last night an extra hour and a half to start astrometrics 3 before i went to sleep so i would have it today. That truly sucked ass. I want a queue. You do realize that you can stop a skill at any time and train something else without loosing what you have already gained in that skill, right? God I truly hope so because it is explained clear enough in the tutorial. Yes, I'm part of the 1% that doesn't want a skill queue. Why, you ask? It's quite simple really. It will detract from an aspect of Eve that can be challenging for some players and that is time management. Time management is a skill upon its own and is considered sacred in Eve. If you can't manage your time effectively then you will miss out on training, when your corp's/alliance's POS will come out of reinforced mode, mining ops, offensive ops...etc. (it's not like there isn't a time management program to help determine when skills complete...Eve-Mon) What you are asking for is a dumbing down of Eve. Any monkey can manage a queue system. What is challenging is deciding if you want to sacrifice an hour of sleep or stay up and let that skill finish. For most of us that isn't hard to do. But what happens when it completes at 3am you ask? Well you need to manage your skills effectively so that either you switch skills early when you log off or you miss a few hours of training while you sleep. A skill queue takes out this step and gives you essentially 100% training whether you're at your PC or not. That's not challenging. It only dumbs down time management. CCP has stated on several occasions that they want players to interact with the game, even if that is to just log in to change skills. I doubt it will increase character farming since they probably already has a skill queue program. What it will do is make that program more legit in their eyes. When I joined Eve, I was one of those players asking for a queue system too. I used to want to have 100% training 24/7. I can see where it can make sense in your eyes that you are paying for a service and that should allow you to put training to the maximum. Essentially that is what this is about, getting the most from your money. I can understand that but there should be penalties in a system that advances your character. Would you expect WoW to allow your character to kill monsters while you are afk sleeping? I doubt it. Would you expect any other MMO to allow your character to advance in any way while you are afk? I doubt it. Eve is unique in that you can do this. In Eve, letting a skill expire is the risk involved. Leveling in any other MMO isn't risk free, so why should it be in Eve?
Tmarte Caldari Krinkle Sack	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:37:00 - [345] Originally by: NightF0x Yes, I'm part of the 1% that doesn't want a skill queue. Why, you ask? It's quite simple really. It will detract from an aspect of Eve ................ What you are asking for is a dumbing down of Eve. Any monkey can manage a queue system. What is challenging is deciding if you want to sacrifice an hour of sleep or stay up and let that skill finish. For most of us that isn't hard to do. But what ................... CCP has stated on several occasions that they want players to interact with the game, even if that is to just log in to change skills.................... When I joined Eve, I was one of those players asking for a queue system too. I used to want to have 100% training 24/7. I can see where it can make sense in your eyes that you are paying for a service and that should allow you to put training to the maximum. Essentially that is what this is about, getting the most from your money. I can understand that but there should be penalties in a system that advances your character. Would you expect WoW to allow your ...................... The reason for a skill queue, is so players that have REAL lives, and REAL obligations can stay on par with other people who have no lives, or live with their parents, don't a job, significant other, obligations. I would like a skill queue because I often have obligations to my full time Adult job, that more often then not are business trips away from home, to another state and/or country. I lose 2-3 days of training often because of these unplanned trips. The skill queue would allow me to train a secondary skill while I'm gone. A couple corp mates of mine that have joined at the same time, born near the same date, but yet I'm several hundred thousand skill points behind because of lost time training. I pay for the game just like anybody else, but yet I should be punished because I have a life beyond the game? Trust me, I would love to interact while I'm away but it's not possible. It's not a dumbing down of the game either. It's just evening out the playing field. It allows people who have real lives to stay competitive in the game with people who have nothing better to do than to be on this game 24/7. Your right with the current system of training you can cancel the current training before bed then start training a long term skill. The problem with that is you end up with a lot of partially trained skills. Non of them ever get done because you can only train the short terms for 30-60 minutes a couple times a day then you have to switch back to a long term skill. YOu also can't compare WoW to EvE either. WoW is based on experience points. You can train faster and slower at your own will. I also believe they have a system for people who can't log on all the time. EvE was created with the real time training system for a reason. It's the length of tenure in the game that will determine your experience, not how much exp you can grind out. It was meant so your not doing mind numbing instances and grinding for your exp. It was meant to keep people competitive. People can become lvl 70 in wow in a very short time. The only way to get 70mln SP is to play the game for 4 1/2 years. Look at WoW, there are a million people lvl 70, while according to the report CCP just released there are only like 12 people with > 70 mln SP or something and these people have been playing since the beginning not for 1 month like a lot of high level WoW players. Two completely different mind sets, two completely different games. I believe a skill queue should be incorporated. The people who play this game are at a lot older age than the average person who plays the other MMO's. Hell I think out of the people in my address book, only 2 are < 18 yrs old. Older people tend to have more obligations in life, and a skill queue would help a lot of us remain competitive.
NightF0x Gallente Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.12 01:02:00 - [346] Originally by: Tmarte The reason for a skill queue, is so players that have REAL lives, and REAL obligations can stay on par with other people who have no lives, or live with their parents, don't a job, significant other, obligations. I would like a skill queue because I often have obligations to my full time Adult job, that more often then not are business trips away from home, to another state and/or country please fix your missing /quote tag. Very annoying when you cut and paste what you want out of my post. Anyway, you're not the only one with a life outside of Eve. Believe it or not, I'm not some 16 year old living with my parents and have nothing better to do than sit at the PC for hours on end. I have a family, kids, job, travel, hospital trips...etc. What sets me apart from you is that I realized a long time ago that skill training isn't a race. It doesn't matter if you have that extra 5% now or 4 hours later. The amount of 'life and death' events in Eve that are measured by 5% is next to zero. If you and your friends measure your e-peen by skill points then you have other issues. For the rest of us, a few hours or days of lost SP isn't a huge deal. Quote: It's not a dumbing down of the game either. It's just evening out the playing field. It allows people who have real lives to stay competitive in the game with people who have nothing better to do than to be on this game 24/7. But it is a dumbing down of the game. You are removing the time management skills that are required to keep up with your skill training. I can't help you, nor should the game, if you can't manage your own skills by training short ones while you are online and long ones when you aren't. Quote: ...The problem with that is you end up with a lot of partially trained skills. Non of them ever get done because you can only train the short terms for 30-60 minutes a couple times a day then you have to switch back to a long term skill. This is part of time management that I keep trying to stress to you (and everyone else). Yes you have several partially trained skills, but that doesn't stop you from going back to them when you have yet another long spell away from the PC. Look, I'm trying to stress that time management is crucially important to skill training. When you remove that aspect of Eve then a little part of the game goes with it. A queue doesn't sound like much but when you can have a back-up skill to fall back on, then your mentality toward skill training diminishes. For example, imagine you're relaxing on the couch watching a movie and your skill completes. If there is a skill queue, will you get up and walk to the PC, log on and change your skill? No you won't. You will allow it to kick into the back-up skill so you won't be bothered to change it. It's molding the game around the lazy. You should have to log into the game to get the benefit of skill training. Quote: YOu also can't compare WoW to EvE either...Look at WoW, there are a million people lvl 70, while according to the report CCP just released there are only like 12 people with > 70 mln SP or something and these people have been playing since the beginning not for 1 month like a lot of high level WoW players... I love how you say that I can't compare Eve with WoW and then you go ahead and do it anyway. Quote: ...The people who play this game are at a lot older age than the average person who plays the other MMO's. Hell I think out of the people in my address book, only 2 are < 18 yrs old. Older people tend to have more obligations in life, and a skill queue would help a lot of us remain competitive. I'm glad that you feel that way. Yes Eve generally has an older playerbase. No one has doubted that. But the small amount of skill points that everyone is complaining about really doesn't make that much of a difference in the long run. Plus you get to fund Eve longer so win-win from Eve's point of view.
Rigo Kajjar Rigo Reloaded	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:47:00 - [347] Yeah, would be nice to have a skill queue with 2x entries. First slot could only be filled with a skill eg less than 3 days long. Second slot could only be filled with a skill that has more than 3 days remaining.
Iago Diminich	Posted - 2008.01.13 18:09:00 - [348] Bump for an idea whose time has come. For those of use who don't have the ability to login whenever we need to, please. Either that or the idea posted earlier of a web interface to change skills. Anyone arguing against this obviously doesn't have A) kids, B) a real job, or C) a life that doesn't revolve around Eve. Let the adults talk here... some of us need this.
Salia WinterDrake Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.13 23:20:00 - [349] I'm wholeheartedly /signing this one aswell. Please give us a second skill to train after the current one is finished, continue the same skill to the next level, or (the best option) add a new learning skill to improve your skill queue. I work on a remote minesite, and its difficult for me to log in and change skills when I'm regularly away for a week or more working. I can only imagine what its like for the military guys who are away for longer - a game breaker I expect. Currently I have to either 'phone a friend' and get my skill changed (a pain in the ass), or use a week+ skill to train while I'm away. Even Battlefield 2142 gives you free 'skill' points so even if you're not playing the game you're not left behind. You come back after a week or so of not playing, and "hey I got a new item slot/skill/weapon... cool!" I have not read a single valid argument against skill queuing yet. If I do, I'll update this post. Add the skill queue, reduce the load on the login server and make the game more playable for those of us with busy (or remote) lives. ---------------- Salia WinterDrake Tunnelling Through a Firewall: VPN Walkthrough
Trebor Daehdoow Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.01.13 23:37:00 - [350] The skill buffer idea is simple, easy to implement, and deals with the problem of constantly having to log in to train skills -- which is particularly annoying when you're a newbie and training a skill is often just an hour or two, and you have to log in at bedtime to switch to a skill that will take at least 10 hours so you can get some sleep, not to mention the annoying "gee, my skill training finished during daily downtime" I'd make it buffer up to a week, and let people use the time instantly (instead of having it speed up training, which just shifts/compresses the issue). It's simpler to implement, and you effectively get a queue for free as long as you log in at least once a week, which everyone does anyway. I mean, FTL travel is effectively time travel anyway, so in this case, you're just sending messages back in time to tell your character what to train... (grin). World Domination - It's fun for the entire family!
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Very Bad Things	Posted - 2008.01.14 10:56:00 - [351] How many posts does it take about this (in this or other threads) to get this idea from the Drawing Board to In Development? Even after 4.5 years, I still have some short skills I'd like to train and my RL commitments make switching them a pain or impossible without losing hours if not days of skill time.
Tmarte Caldari Krinkle Sack	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:38:00 - [352] NightF0x, sorry about the quote tag. It's not "cutting and pasting what i want" it's called truncating because you only get a limited number of characters you can use in a post. And no, I was giving you a REASON you can't compare eve with wow. I had to give you a comparision unfortunately to show why you can't. Just an example. Seems your reading comprehension skills are a little lacking or else you would have realized this. You know if they implement a skill queue you don't have to use it right? Also, if they do implement it would it affect the way you personally play the game? Didn't think so, so why don't you GTHO of this thread and quit negatively commenting on something that won't affect you.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:46:00 - [353] This morning I turned off my amarr cruiser lvl 5 to put in between a 10 hours skill so when I come back from work, I switch it again for amarr cruiser lvl 5 so it will end friday night... Time management? Challenging? No, it's just a pain! We're supposed to play a game, and this is not fun at all. Your example as getting up from the sofa to set the next skill, this means that you were online and afk, just as many of us do to hear the skill training complete... Do you change skill before having sex not to be interrupted? This is plain stupid, it's just making more people logged in and afk, which is totally useless. And no, it's not challenging, it's only disabling people with lower play time to set short time skills while they play and switch back to long ones. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Xaen Caldari Black Podding	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:40:00 - [354] The lack of this feature is the most baffling thing about EVE right now. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
NightF0x Gallente Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:40:00 - [355] Originally by: Tmarte wall of text that can be read if you want to scroll up... Yeah I ran into that issue when I was writing my reply and should have removed it. I wasn't trying to attack anyone here. I was trying to get you to realize that by implementing the feature that the game will loose a sense of accomplishment when you finish a skill. That's all, and the fact that you actually have to manage your skill time but I guess that's just an oversight. Quote: You obviously have no obligations in life if you are arguing against this, or else you would see mine, and everybody else's points. No need to insult or diminish the fact that I DO have a life, a family, kids, a job and that I don't sit in my mom's basement in my tightie-whities eating pretzels and drinking kool-aid. So there's no need to tell me to GTHO because I'm trying to show the other side of why CCP might be reluctant to add this feature. If you can't take some constructive criticism (without going into personal attacks) then you really need to take some anger management classes, then maybe try some time management classes while you're at it. =D
Tmarte Caldari Krinkle Sack	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:21:00 - [356] Originally by: NightF0x Originally by: Tmarte wall of text that can be read if you want to scroll up... Yeah I ran into that issue when I was writing my reply and should have removed it. I wasn't trying to attack anyone here. I was trying to get you to realize that by implementing the feature that the game will loose a sense of accomplishment when you finish a skill. That's all, and the fact that you actually have to manage your skill time but I guess that's just an oversight. Quote: You obviously have no obligations in life if you are arguing against this, or else you would see mine, and everybody else's points. No need to insult or diminish the fact that I DO have a life, a family, kids, a job and that I don't sit in my mom's basement in my tightie-whities eating pretzels and drinking kool-aid. So there's no need to tell me to GTHO because I'm trying to show the other side of why CCP might be reluctant to add this feature. If you can't take some constructive criticism (without going into personal attacks) then you really need to take some anger management classes, then maybe try some time management classes while you're at it. =D Haha, problem with forums boards is you can relay context, sarcasm, etc.... Your point is understandable. But to be honest (constructive criticism) it's kinda lacking and only works for basic situations. Hate to say it but we live in a real world, if you have a wife, kids etc... then you should be very understanding of a skill queue. I can hear you say it now "sorry timmy, but we can't go play outside, Daddy has to train a new skill in a few minutes", or even "honey i know your in labor, but we have to stop home so i can set a long term skill". Time management only goes so far. So many people can benefit from a skill queue. There has yet to be a single good arguement against it. The best arguement so far was that people wouldn't play as much. Well what's the difference if your just logging in, which can be a disruption in your daily life, for a couple minutes to switch a skill then logging right back off, or sitting AFK chewing up processing power for hours. The other arguement is char farmers would be able to do it easier. Not really they are on 23/7 anyways so no loss at all. Sorry for the personal attacks. Me using GTHO is like a NYC cab driver using the F word. Come up with a better arguement against it. I will have no problem discussing it, and I promise no personal attacks too!
Khaumsal	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:26:00 - [357] Edited by: Khaumsal on 14/01/2008 20:30:52 Correct me if I am wrong but I remember playing on a trial account when this game first came out and there was a skill training queue.
Dosgar Caldari Fujifield Corp SYBERIS	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:43:00 - [358] I don't have time to read all 12 pages right now, but has anyone mentioned a skill-queuing implant? That way players can choose whether or not they want the option of a skill queue. Make it's primary skill one that takes a while to achieve (ie. Cybernetics 5, or maybe even a separate skill that has Cyb 5 as it's primary/secondary). Then you can plug in an implant into a specialist slot that allows you to queue a skill (could be one at a time, or the number could correspond to the implants primary skill level, ie. Skill Queuing 3 allows 3 skills to be trained. Or another possibility is that only one skill can be set to be trained after the current one is finished, but the skill level allows for a certain training time to run. For example, you have Skill Queuing 2, which allows you to train a skill after your current one has completed, upto a maximum of 2 hours. After those 2 hours it will stop until you reset it running manually when you log back in. --------- *This space reserved for a mod sig burn*
Enraged Stoat	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:48:00 - [359] Edited by: Enraged Stoat on 14/01/2008 21:48:59 Originally by: NightF0x I was trying to get you to realize that by implementing the feature that the game will loose a sense of accomplishment when you finish a skill. That's all, and the fact that you actually have to manage your skill time but I guess that's just an oversight. I manage my training such that completion of skills happen at times that are convenient, like when getting home from work. But the sense of accomplishment is somewhat robbed when your ISP decides that 15 minutes before you get home they will take the internet away for the next 12 hours. Then it's more like feelings of hatred and frustration (at the ISP and Eve). Before people make suggestions about other local providers/friends. (a) there is only one ISP where I live, there is no choice (and it's pretty unreasonable to expect people to sign up for multiple providers anyway). (b) if my internet is down so are all the internets of my local friends. Whether or not there is a full on queue doesn't bother me, but there needs to be a way you can nominate at least one skill that starts to train automatically when the current one finishes to take care of accidents and incidents outside of your control. It must be automatic, think player with no internet access through no fault of their own - there is no way they can connect to anything to change skill - not even a website. My comiserations to those players that have jobs taking them away from their keyboards for super-extended periods of time. A queue would work, but so would a web interface and a single nominated continuation skill? At least you could use local web browsers (rather than having to install a client) and it wouldn't matter if a main skill did complete before you could get access. Stopping all and any skills training immediately when your subscription expires is an absolute winner and I subscribe heartily to the idea.
Little Tigerlilly	Posted - 2008.01.15 18:30:00 - [360] Posted this in my own thread: Can we please have a skill training Que and keep 1 skill in Que that will be trained after the current skill finishes? I'm tired of logging in to change skills. I don't see how this adds anything to the game, it's annoying. I do not enjoy making sure that my person will be sitting at a computer logged onto at or around the time a certain skill completes so that I can click another skill and start training. Can we please have a skill training Que. Starting with a que of 1 should be a safe step to make sure this does not cause any unexpected problems. If anyone disagrees can you give some details on why you feel this part of the game needs to stay as is. Guess I'll bump this too.
Little Tigerlilly	Posted - 2008.01.15 18:39:00 - [361] Edited by: Little Tigerlilly on 15/01/2008 18:39:53 Originally by: Hari Chinaski Would you expect WoW to allow your character to kill monsters while you are afk sleeping? I doubt it. Would you expect any other MMO to allow your character to advance in any way while you are afk? I doubt it. Eve is unique in that you can do this. In Eve, letting a skill expire is the risk involved. Leveling in any other MMO isn't risk free, so why should it be in Eve? Uh...WoW does let you improve your character while offline. You don't get the benefits until you've come back and put in some time but I think for every hour you were offline they give you an hour of double experience so you can make up for the time you missed. It's working out pretty well for them...
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:31:00 - [362] Edited by: Judaris Delinnea on 15/01/2008 22:28:49 Regarding the Time Management argument... Originally by: Tmarte You are removing the time management skills that are required to keep up with your skill training. I can't help you, nor should the game, if you can't manage your own skills by training short ones while you are online and long ones when you aren't. This is a game, not a time management exercise. My view of this argument is that it is quite idealistic, but highly unrealistic. The fact is, that different people have different strengths and weaknesses. One cannot expect everyone to be able to become experts in time management - this is certainly not the case in real life and that's an even more critical place where it would be ideal. How can we force people into something in a game that could never even be possible in real life? If the game expects this (which it currently does), then what it is essentially doing is discriminating against those that are not so skilled in this area. Translation: it causes a frustration for that segment of the user base, which leads to a higher liklihood that they get fed up and leave even if they enjoy other parts of the game. Result: You get less players to interact with and CCP gets less revenue. I have good time management skills and so I rarely miss switching skills on 3 different accounts, but even I still get frustrated with this level of micromanagement. Micromanagement is a factor of what kills alot of people's interest in games out there. There is obviously significant support for this functionality since these threads continue to be raised for the last few years. -- -- -- Regarding the Accomplishment argument... Originally by: Tmarte I was trying to get you to realize that by implementing the feature that the game will loose a sense of accomplishment when you finish a skill. Personally, I don't get a sense of accomplishment when I finish a skill, I get the sense when I can load that mod I wanted, or fly that ship I am looking forward to, or to see how my current ship physically handles with the additional stats that came with a skill (for me these things typically mean a string of skills). The item is the golden treasure for me, not the skill training that was needed to use it. The item is the substantiative thing that I can actually see, use and be proud of. The skill training piece is merely the administrative work that needs to be done to get to that point. I perceive skill training as character maintenance; maintaining its growth - meaning a micromanagement element and not the meat of the game where the fundamental enjoyment lies. RL parallel example - If you are building a house, are you more likely to feel the greatest sense of accomplishment when the electrical contractor you hired finishes his work, or the flooring guy is done laying down the carpeting? Or are you most likely to feel the greatest moment of accomplishment when the house is completed, the furniture is moved in and you can finally stand back aways and admire the sun as it sets behind the roof or lounge in the living room with a martini for the first time? -- -- -- And since I mention 'micromanagement' alot, before someone says "if you don't like it, then play another game" - I handle micromanagement relatively well on an execution level. But it still gets me frustrated because that has typically been the primary reason that has caused me to eventually burn out in past games after hitting my tolerance limit. In real life I could hire people to manage all that minor stuff as I get richer, but I cannot do that in games. What I'm doing here is trying to support those many, many people out there that aren't so skilled or tolerant in such management activities. And I have played numerous online games out there now and defunct ones from the past, and they all have had areas that required frustrating levels of micromanagement. This overall problem is not unique to EVE and I don't expect it all to be fixed. I just see this function as an useful, incremental way to ease the strain.
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:38:00 - [363] Edited by: Tmarte on 16/01/2008 12:41:45 Hey, remove my name from those quotes i didn't say either of those, somebody else did. We need skill queue!
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:16:00 - [364] You're right, sorry. I got the nested quotes mixed up.
Nethers School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:35:00 - [365] we need it. When subscription stops, so does traning.
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:14:00 - [366] NP judaris, i couldn't think of a polite way (since there's no PM system on the board) to say it lol, so pardon any rudeness on my part. Either way, we're up to 13 pages, we need some in put from a Dev, to see what they think of this, and why it's been on the drawingboard for soooo long without moving any further.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:44:00 - [367] Accomplishement on a skill finishing? Not at all... I would say relief when the skill was more than a week! I will soon have the relief of finishing amarr cruiser at 5... Accomplishement is when you beat someone that was said to be stronger than you. I beat an old corpmate in a deimos duel which was said to be the best HAS expert we know in this corp and a few friendly ones, this was indeed an accomplishement and the feeling is truely different. Now if I can do something with an amarr T2 cruiser that I couldn't do before, it will be an accomplishement, if it's only flying new ships, i'm happy because it adds more choices to me in the game. Long skills and skill time managing is not an issue for me, it's just really boring, I don't play to change skills, I play to fly ships, interact with people, compete in stupid contests we like to make... Please understand that what may be a challenge for you may be boring for some and annoying for others. Just as I understand that duels in the same ship type are not realistic, thus many will not like it, but I find them fun and challenging to get the upper hand in a supposed equal fight. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 22:00:00 - [368] Edited by: Judaris Delinnea on 16/01/2008 22:01:40 Originally by: Tmarte we're up to 13 pages, we need some in put from a Dev, to see what they think of this, and why it's been on the drawingboard for soooo long without moving any further. That and the fact that strings have continued to pop up on this topic over the years proves that there is significant support for this. The devs being mum about it is frustrating in itself. I would at the very least would like to see something from them about where in the priority list this is if they are considering it. Or if they are not considering it, what the reasons are. At least then we could have something solid to refer to, so as to stop these endless debates year after year.
alerak Caldari E.V.A.lution	Posted - 2008.01.17 15:08:00 - [369] Edited by: alerak on 17/01/2008 15:08:08 Is there any way that we could get access to the skill training menu on mobile phones (as long as there is an active account), i just think this may help people if they are away for long periods of time? Al -------------------------------------------------- hehe :)
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.17 21:56:00 - [370] Edited by: Judaris Delinnea on 17/01/2008 22:00:13 Originally by: alerak Is there any way that we could get access to the skill training menu on mobile phones That's one of the suggestions that has come up over the years. I think some people had raised some concerns about it being considered because CCP wanted people to actually log into the game. But that doesn't make much sense to me. In such circumstances, people currently just log into the game, switch a skill, and log back out. And that really is no different than switching skills via mobile or website. Personally I wouldn't use that option much, though. I normally need to consult my EVEMon skill plans on my home machine to even remember what I wanted to train next since I have the skill training sequences planned out months in advance.
alerak Caldari E.V.A.lution	Posted - 2008.01.18 13:36:00 - [371] maybe ccp need to put a bit more thought into it and make it a bit more versatile for some people who are on the move / holiday ect... i think it could help a lot of people with their skilling thanks Al -------------------------------------------------- hehe :)
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.18 14:20:00 - [372] Gah, they don't need more thought into it, they just need to do it already! Unfortunately if we did see this it would probably be in the next expansion, which is another 5 months away ( if ccp keeps their twice a year schedule for expansions).
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.18 15:22:00 - [373] I guess the next big one will not be before this schedule, still, having this listed in the to do list of the next expansion would be better than not having a word from CCP about this. I guess we may get some new models and minor fixes/upgrades in the meantime as there are stuff like planets they didn't remake yet. CCP hasn't to justify a yes or a no, just saying yes or no would be a good thing and settle the questioning about will we have a skill queue! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Judaris Delinnea Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2008.01.18 21:41:00 - [374] Edited by: Judaris Delinnea on 18/01/2008 21:42:44 Originally by: alerak ...for some people who are on the move / holiday ect... I agree, and I think this is one of the central tenets that make up the pro-queue case. CCP designed the mechanics to allow us to utilize all of the time that we pay for by improving our characters. So after giving us that big bone as an advantage other games, it's a bit like they're falling short by not giving us the safe-guards against lost time due to emergency downtimes, vacations, sick in the hospital, etc. But I suppose that's kind of an unfair statement... like 'if you give them a foot, they'll take a mile.' Originally by: Eleana Tomelac CCP hasn't to justify a yes or a no, just saying yes or no would be a good thing and settle the questioning about will we have a skill queue! Yea, but then people would dive right into whining about the whys and whens - including me!
Javeoon	Posted - 2008.01.19 04:56:00 - [375] I like this idea: just make it like normal training, it won't change anything. Can queue one kill at a time (after one your learning). If you de sub then the skill your learning continues as it was but the queue drops.
alerak Caldari E.V.A.lution	Posted - 2008.01.19 12:48:00 - [376] thinking about it i dont see how it would have a bad effect on skilling maybe ccp should do a test run with it or something? even if they dont put skill queing it would still help out a lot. Al -------- Al
Hurrican	Posted - 2008.01.20 19:19:00 - [377] Skill queue help new players the most. New players need to change skills often i.e. once every hour to 6 hours. These skills do not rack up many skill point like 200k sp for 4 days or something like that. So to make this something that cant be abused by stopping paying for eve whilest your skill queue trains your character for you. Have the skill you able to queu up to say 500k sp or less. Thus it would not be that helpfull to people that have all skills at lvl 4 or 5 i.e. people who have played for ages. And still be a MASSIVE help for new people who change say 5 skills a day. just my thoughts on this idea. The only respon for not putting a skill queue is to put of new players .... Means ccp can keep up with hardware upgrades
Lord Ivanow	Posted - 2008.01.21 18:57:00 - [378] Edited by: Lord Ivanow on 21/01/2008 18:57:15 Accsess to your skill managment via Mobile Phone whould open up some people who have difficult worktimes a good option to learn more effective. Imagine you miss switching your skills before you go to work (maybe 15 hours without learning) or even if you go on vacation? (maybe 2-3weeks without learning?) The only option is you call a friend and beg him to switch your skills for you, but in this case you have to give him your password whats an security issue. I dont think its the most important think that the dev¦s should take care of immediatly but it will be still a nice feature.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.01.22 14:13:00 - [379] signet signet again and again and again untill they fix it :D I declare war on stupidity
alerak Caldari E.V.A.lution	Posted - 2008.01.22 18:35:00 - [380] Edited by: alerak on 22/01/2008 18:36:47 Originally by: Lord Ivanow imagine you miss switching your skills before you go to work (maybe 15 hours without learning) or even if you go on vacation? (maybe 2-3weeks without learning?) The only option is you call a friend and beg him to switch your skills for you, but in this case you have to give him your password whats an security issue. exactly my problem, its has happened to me a few times and is very frustrating we need something as a safety from this, one thing or the other. -------- Al
d3vo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.22 19:22:00 - [381] /signed
Rufati	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:53:00 - [382] I like the idea of the queued skill system. That and the dual-learning skill system. I wrote up an idea of mine that kind of combines both those ideas into a system that is more efficient (and doesn't require you to manage your time to an insane degree). My idea is here But regardless, I /sign for the skill queue. Gaps in training might not be a big deal for people with ~60million sp, but for people starting out it's daunting to have to micromanage all this stuff.
Saelyth Nightwish Gallente Stormriders	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:22:00 - [383] I dont have a problem with skill Queue PROVIDED that the skills Stop training if the account is inactive. We dont need people queuing up 2 30+ day skills and shutting down their account for 2 months. IF you cant afford to keep your account on, then you shouldn't be playing in the first place. ----------------------------------- Suggestions Smartbombs vs. Cloak
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:25:00 - [384] i have never been able to see the problem with a skill queue(if the skills just stop training in inaktive accounts) other then whining ass ***es that want to make the game more annoying for every one then it have to be. it's like the challenge in eve is to see if you can outlast all the annoying ****s out there and if you keep in the game with all the annoying idiotic things that there is NO reason for being there but yer... like scramblers, why haven't they got a notice status thing yet? makes no freaking sense.. and auto pilot not jumping to 0 :S idiotic... and exploits not being a banneble offense, pos bowling any one?! etc etc etc.. so many freaking stupid things that is only there to ** people of and make them either leave the game or never really start it.. there is no other reason for them to be there.. so if the devs would get their fingers out of the behind and ACTUALLY LISTEN! and use common sense and logic and FIX those things instead of sitting around doing stuff that adds a little extra to THEIR play type... you know fixing something broken first would be the best choice.... I declare war on stupidity
Polito	Posted - 2008.01.25 20:41:00 - [385] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Call me crazy, but if I could set just ONE skill to train after my current one finishes, I am set. For us casual gamers this would be a really big help, and it would probably require about 8 lines of code to accomplish
Harland Sanders	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:51:00 - [386] /signed. Even a small queue would help out. Just make "Time Management" a skill, tie it to your learning skills, and for every level you get 1 day of queue's so the max you can get is 5 days. Need more? make "Advanced Time Management" that gives you 5 more days for a total of 10. I would think you could log in to refill your queue in 10 days. A way to solve a lot of the inactive account problems would be to limit the amount of skills in the queue based on the time it takes for the queued skills to complete. For example, if you have 20 skills queued up and it would take 9 days and 20 hours to complete all of the queued skills, and your max queue time is 10 days, you couldn't add a skill at the end of the queue that takes 30 days. You could only add one that takes 4 hours or less. Of course, a learning stop after the last active account skill completes is also a solid idea. Accessing skills through a Web UI would also be nice, since I sometimes don't have access to the Eve Client but have web access, but that's another thread.
Yukiyo	Posted - 2008.01.26 03:23:00 - [387] Yes, queueing of skills please
Xiona Vherokior	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:19:00 - [388] I vote No, because I was quite a half year not online and it would be really unfair to be an high-end char for being offline for years.
John Soulreaver	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:10:00 - [389] /signed to queue Skills
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:46:00 - [390] Originally by: Xiona Vherokior I vote No, because I was quite a half year not online and it would be really unfair to be an high-end char for being offline for years. The real question is 'did you suspend your account', if it's a no, it's your loss not setting skills, if it was suspended, the fact that skills should just be cancelled when accounts are deactivated makes this not exploitable... There is still the security issue about people giving passwords to others to change skills on holidays, a queue would fix this risk. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Aeons Plus Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.27 03:41:00 - [391] This was a dream for so long. It was even discussed many times. Yet it has never happened. Seems like the things that make the most sense is the last thing ro be done. Guess that's what makes us human. Are we going to talk or are we going to do it this time. Yes from time to time people can make others a little happier. Remember to this is a game, the players are the customers of CCP.
CEO CatzRule	Posted - 2008.01.27 03:52:00 - [392] Having a look at the Patch Notes under "The Drawingboard", I have found this on this link -> Click Here Quote: Skill Training - Queue or Dual training This could enable players to either queue skills so that when one level finishes the next level in that skill starts training automatically, or another preset skill starts training automatically. Dual training would enable you to have a primary long-term skill in training with a secondary short-term skill sharing the training time. After a level in the secondary skill has trained, the primary skill trains at full speed again. Seems like your request has been taken into consideration.
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Very Bad Things	Posted - 2008.01.27 05:59:00 - [393] That's been on the Drawing Board section for ages... It's time to get it moved or at least a comment from CCP on the issue.
Inacor	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:36:00 - [394] You see this argued around and around in circles. "Yes cause some people have real lives and aren't little kids who can sit around all day" "No it's not our fault your all lazy or can't manage your time and then there those darn character farmers." First off it's terrible to say one person doesn't have a "real" life they live they breathe that's a real life. Also calling people lazy is down right mean! Neither one of those arguments make any kind of sense to me. Some peoples lives are just better suited for Eve's current skill system. I never saw the point of having to train skills I don't really need or WANT at the time just so i can get another one to end at a more convent time or not being able to complete a certain skill i WANT in timely fashion because it's training time doesn't fit into my schedule or life in any way without losing out on lots of skill points a month. Seriously even the guys saying no would love this, don't deny it. You want that large hybrid 4 done so you can get those t2 guns tomorrow but man your really tired and you got 5 hours left and you have to work tomorrow so it's not going to get done then either, aw and you know your not going to have much time in the morning so even if you left it train you lose over 12 hours... oh i know ill just queue up the last 15 hours of sharpshooter V after this finishes so ill be home long before that finishes and can train large blaster spec when i get home! AND be one step closer to my goals.... Seriously who wouldn't want it a little easier? Like others have said I know people who sit online just so its easier to switch skills, they aren't really there and id rather have them not online than pretending to be. Yea yea I know its different "You don't get exp while offline on generic mmorpg X" Well you do in eve which really makes it hard to have the pilot you want. Just one skill able to be queued is all we need and everyone can breathe easier. Also all this talk of gadgets and browser skill changes, that would be great yeah, but it doesn't help everyone!
Tredis Var	Posted - 2008.01.28 17:22:00 - [395] This has my vote. Tredis Var
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.01.28 17:29:00 - [396] Wow, you really need to separate some of that white space up there. It's so hard to read. By real life, most of us mean: Kids, wives/husbands, full time big-boy jobs, etc... ItÆs not really IÆm wasting my training on something else, eventually I may need those skills, but for instance if IÆm trying to train all my asteroid processing skills to IV to be able to use T2 mining crystals, a lot of time IÆm forced to stop training one of them because thereÆs only 2 hours left and I have to go to work, so I end up training like caldari cruiser V or something. Yeah itÆs great IÆm taking time off of cruiser V, but it takes me an extra week to train for all those crystals than it should in the first place. I got a bunch of mostly trained skills that need 2-5 hours of training completed on them to finish them off, but it will take me ages to complete all of them because I canÆt dedicated that large of a chunk of time to train those specific skills. The argument that CCP wants us to play the game isn't that great either. Well of course they want us to play, or why would they make a game at all? I don't think they want us to devote our lives to it though. Also, they tailor the game to more mature individuals from the start. The game has a steep learning curve, it has in game politics and economics that takes somebody a little older than 12 years old to "get". I bet the average age of a CEO of a major corp/alliance in the game is probably mid 20's at least. Also, if they wanted us to play 23/7, then why would they have implemented real time training in the first place. The only logical reason is because they figured they can appeal to an older fanbase that doesn't usually get into MMO's due to the amount of dedication you need to "level" up and to progress in the game. Real time training takes care of this because you character is constantly training as long as you have a skill selected to be trained. That's where the only problem with real time skill training comes in. If you have an emergency, or you have to go out of town on business, or for a family function, you may not have time to set a long term skill. Or if you do, the skill you selected may run out before you get back into town or until you can log in again. TBH, the game is the least important thing in most peopleÆs lives. There are priorities. The kids, significant others, jobs, come first. I lost another 12 hours of training the other night because of the wife being sick, and you people know when a kid or wife getÆs sick the last thing you think or care about is a video game. A skill queue, even if itÆs just 1 or 2 skills, would help a LOT of people out. Not only would I be able to finish some of those low level skills, but I would be able to optimize my training. I donÆt feel that browser switching or mobile phone switching is as important as just the basic use of a basic skill queue system. ItÆs not really IÆm wasting my training on something else, eventually I may need those skills, but for instance if IÆm trying to train all my asteroid processing skills to IV to be able to use T2 mining crystals, a lot of time IÆm forced to stop training one of them because thereÆs only 2 hours left and I have to go to work, so I end up training like caldari cruiser V or something. Yeah itÆs great IÆm taking time off of cruiser V, but it takes me an extra week to train for all those crystals than it should in the first place. I got a bunch of mostly trained skills that need 2-5 hours of training completed on them to finish them off, but it will take me ages to complete all of them because I canÆt dedicated that large of a chunk of time to train those specific skills. Also, you do get a boost in exp in a lot of other popular MMOÆs for the time you were offline or a similar system. Can we get some input from the Dev's on why this has been on the drawingboard for ages or at least some input on what they don't like about any of these proposals?
Mi baby	Posted - 2008.01.28 22:03:00 - [397] A very simple solution, that could only be slightly taken advantage of is to only allow the queuing of 1 additional skill. that way if a skill finishes while your at work, play what ever it can move on to next skill. It wouldn't be hard to find some one only renewing every other month to get a lot of skills to lvl 5. got a lot of short skills to train? train them while you play. Leave longer skills to train overnight/at work with the Que to back you up.
Lobster Man Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.01.29 00:59:00 - [398] It would also be nice if a skill finished during downtime, I wouldn't lose those precious 27 minutes or whatever waiting to log back in and start the next one :D
Ori Jin	Posted - 2008.01.29 07:28:00 - [399] /signed
Jacquelin Ayalin	Posted - 2008.01.29 07:49:00 - [400] Interesting...build your character without even having to log into the game whatsoever... Kind of like...afk macroing. Sort of defeats the purpose of playing the game if everything is done for you. I dunno, it takes 10 seconds to log into the game and start another skill and if you just cant get to the game for 2 weeks, maybe have a friend start a skill or consider it time lost. Its already amazing that you dont really have to do anything in the game other than make money (which is a pretty easy task) to develop your character. Forcing someone to log in for 1 minute or so to start another skill once or twice a week seems only reasonable. Consider any other online game where, in order to get anywhere in the game that is meaningful, you have to spend months of actual in-game play grinding experience or macroing skills over and over again. And, in any other online game, if you had to step away from the game for 3 weeks, you wouldnt get ANYTHING done. As opposed to eve, you could start a skill up that takes 2 weeks and while, yea, you'd loose the last week that you werent training, the first two weeks, you'd benefit without even logging into the game. Thats my thought on the matter anyways.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2008.01.29 09:34:00 - [401] Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 29/01/2008 09:34:23 Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin Sort of defeats the purpose of playing the game if everything is done for you. The purpose of playing the game is logging in to change a skill? Quote: I dunno, it takes 10 seconds to log into the game and start another skill Right. IF you have access to a computer at that time. IF an internet connection exists. IF the game server is actually up. IF you're awake when the skill ends, some people need sleep once in a while, and you can't always "set a long skill", even the "short" ones(4-5 hours) need to be finished some time. Quote: and if you just cant get to the game for 2 weeks, maybe have a friend start a skill I'm certain this is considered to be a breach of the EULA, so I don't think it's a good idea. Quote: Forcing someone to log in for 1 minute or so to start another skill once or twice a week seems only reasonable. I think it has been explained in this thread quite often that it is neither "merely" once or twice a week, nor reasonable. Quote: Consider any other online game where, in order to get anywhere in the game that is meaningful, you have to spend months of actual in-game play grinding experience or macroing skills over and over again. I think that's the reason(or one of) why the skill system of Eve is different - so it does NOT force you to grind. Which it currently does anyway, though.
Eizana Amarr Scyanis	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:51:00 - [402] /signed
Arcayan	Posted - 2008.01.31 23:29:00 - [403] I would like to propose a compromise on skill queing. Allow players to que, more or less, an unlimited number of skills, with the exception that the last skill on the que must start within 24 hours of it being added to the que. Personally, if I'm training skills with times measured in days, I don't care if I lose 6 hours of training between skills. When I'm training those lower level skills, that take 2 hours, I start to lose a lot more training time. If I can set two skills in motion each day - and they're both 2 hour skills, that's 20 hours of no training that day. I haven't read this thread in it's entirety, so I don't know if this has been suggested. I've typed up the training times for me if I were to start mining (fat chance) because this is more or less the situation I found myself in for training drones recently. Industry I - 6m, 47s Refining I - 6m, 47s Mining II - 31m, 36s Refining II - 31m, 36s Mining III - 2h, 58m, 41s Refining III - 2h, 58m, 41s Mining IV - 16h, 50m, 59s Refining IV - 16h, 50m, 59s Mining V - 3d, 23h, 18m, 59s Veldspar Processing I - 6m, 47s Scordite Processing I - 6m, 47s Pyroxeres Processing I - 6m, 47s Plagioclase Processing I - 6m, 47s Veldspar Processing II - 31m, 36s Scordite Processing II - 31m, 36s Pyroxeres Processing II - 31m, 36s Plagioclase Processing II - 31m, 36s Veldspar Processing III - 2h, 58m, 41s Scordite Processing III - 2h, 58m, 41s Pyroxeres Processing III - 2h, 58m, 41s Plagioclase Processing III - 2h, 58m, 41s Veldspar Processing IV - 16h, 50m, 59s Scordite Processing IV - 16h, 50m, 59s Pyroxeres Processing IV - 16h, 50m, 59s Plagioclase Processing IV - 16h, 50m, 59s Total required training time: 9d, 2h, 7m, 31s But because I can't always login to set a skill running, this is likely to take me up to 3 weeks. By allowing a skill que that could handle all of the level I and II skills, and then another day all of the level III skills, I'd be out of the woods. If you think I'm "Lazy", then I have two words for you. One of them is not allowed on the forum and the other is "off". I work 40 to 60 hours a week and don't have an EVE client on my work computer. I could get away with a web based skill change, but installing the game client is not an option. I can login and set a skill running before I head to the gym in the mornings and at night when I get home from work. Everyone continues to make the point that "CCP want you to actually play the game". Well, in the last three weeks of training drones, I haven't had time to actually play the game. All I've done is log on to the server, set a skill in motion and quit.
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Very Bad Things	Posted - 2008.02.07 02:05:00 - [404] Cross training is the perfect example. I've been playing for 4.5 years, but really never trained drones... well I decided to train up to carriers and now have a slew of short term skills I have to train.
Sol ExAstris	Posted - 2008.02.09 02:03:00 - [405] Arcayan's idea is excellent. Hard to abuse and still requires a daily login to keep the devs happy. I'd also be up for a dual (either simultaneous or sequentially linear) as an addition in general. Particularly the idea of a dual que, because you'll still have to log in quite often to reset your first completed skill so that you lose no time when your second one completes. Flat out more convienent, still requires logging in a decent amount, just not as much as obnoxiously much as the current system can when you aren't training long skills.
Renfus Omen Incorporated Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.09 02:12:00 - [406] Arcayan's idea is the best i've seen ... Hopefully they will make it happen one day..
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.02.11 16:08:00 - [407] Come on devs! Give us something to go off of. What are your ideas on this topic?
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.11 16:18:00 - [408] Originally by: Yuri Mengeroth Cross training is the perfect example. I've been playing for 4.5 years, but really never trained drones... well I decided to train up to carriers and now have a slew of short term skills I have to train. I agree, crosstraining always begins with short skills! And I spend my life crosstraining because I decided not to fly BS, which means I will start training a new race 3 times (already did with amarr and a light bit in minmatar) with very short skills as I reach each size of ship... And I'm totally crap in shield tanking, so it means at some point, I will have to start shield tanking nearly from scratch to use some minmatar ships... It really annoys me that we currently have nothing for those skills and have nothing for skills finishing on night or work time. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Lucatur Ramuk	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:40:00 - [409] My adaptation for this idea is to allow selection of a "Next Skill" if the one currently in training ends within 24 hours. So you can log in anywhere within 24 hours of your current skill finishing, and pick the next one to start when it finishes. Changing the skill in training removes the "Next" flag. Virtually immune to abuse, gets CCP the logins they want, and lets us get on with the family, friends, and jobs that otherwise cost training time. People that have a very long list of short skills won't quite be helped as much, but I at least always have some 12-day+ monster that needs training. It's the "3 hour" or the "7 hour" deals that kill me. Not long enough to set before bed, work, or night classes without losing time, but not short enough to complete while playing. With my proposal, I could set a 3 hour before bed, and then set the "Next" to be a long term monster... I wake up, switch it to the next 3hr skill, set a long one for the Next Skill, play for 1 hour, log off to go to work, etc. Even more of a compromise would be a 12-hour window. -Luc
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Crystal Ship	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:54:00 - [410] Originally by: Lucatur Ramuk My adaptation for this idea is to allow selection of a "Next Skill" if the one currently in training ends within 24 hours. So you can log in anywhere within 24 hours of your current skill finishing, and pick the next one to start when it finishes. Changing the skill in training removes the "Next" flag. Virtually immune to abuse, gets CCP the logins they want, and lets us get on with the family, friends, and jobs that otherwise cost training time. People that have a very long list of short skills won't quite be helped as much, but I at least always have some 12-day+ monster that needs training. It's the "3 hour" or the "7 hour" deals that kill me. Not long enough to set before bed, work, or night classes without losing time, but not short enough to complete while playing. With my proposal, I could set a 3 hour before bed, and then set the "Next" to be a long term monster... I wake up, switch it to the next 3hr skill, set a long one for the Next Skill, play for 1 hour, log off to go to work, etc. Even more of a compromise would be a 12-hour window. -Luc Now this makes a lot of sense. Gives additional flexibility in Skill Training in that you don't need to be logged in at the exact second a skill changes to change the skill. Likewise, it benefits those whos skill inconveniantly changes while they're up to their eyeballs in a firefight as it gives them one less thing to worry about. And for those worried about being able to skill up a character AFK, well people would still have to log in as often as before, its just that they wouldn't have to log in at an exact time. Finally, the character farming issue. Well, simple economics says that this should actually decrease this. After all, if everyone is skilling up Alts for farming purposes then the Supply of Characters is suddenly greatly increased. However, as Skill Training is now easier to manage it means that people will be more likely to skill up their own characters rather than buy other peoples, thus reducing demand. As Such, Character Prices will fall making Character Farming less lucrative and as it becomes less profitable to Farm EVE Characters, people will leave that market for more profitable areas. All IMHO, of course.
Paelin Cresting	Posted - 2008.02.13 16:57:00 - [411] Edited by: Paelin Cresting on 13/02/2008 17:01:42 Another idea similar to the queue (its probably already been discussed, but I don't feel like searching through pages upon pages of discussion to find the few posts that mention it) is to: Incorporate a queuing system that doesn't queue skills, but levels. One skill has enough time invested in it to provide for those who need to go beyond the short skills. You can start at level 1 of Cruiser skill, but you had to leave for a few weeks, once you return you should be into the upper levels of Cruiser. If you are gone for over the time alloted for the skill then your training stops after level 5 is complete. I think its a good compromise to prevent someone queuing up skills, wait a few months, and bam he can fully pilot a Dreadnaught without ever having to log in, and to provide a service for those folks who actually have souls and lives to maintain in RL instead of in-game.
Emiae Gallente N'Th'Rack Squadron Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.13 17:05:00 - [412] The skill queue is a veru good idea, as the website skill change is (when we are away from house, exemple : i can connect on my account via the cell phone or another internet access). I hope it will work in the futur! Miner/Trade/Industry & Manufacture.
d3vo Amarr The Core Doctrine Covenant of Prophecy	Posted - 2008.02.14 15:41:00 - [413] /signed
Lost True Caldari Paradise project	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:18:00 - [414] /signed
Tmarte Caldari BODA-BOOM	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:42:00 - [415] Oh come on fell to page 6? Devs we need some input on what you think! Don't go stale on us, this could be a critical feature that would help people who don't have time during the week to play constantly!
Dancing Sun	Posted - 2008.02.22 18:04:00 - [416] I'd love this option to be implemented. HERE HERE!
Xaen Caldari Black Podding	Posted - 2008.02.22 19:26:00 - [417] Just do it already! If it means inactive accounts stop training, fine by me. Two options off the top of my head: A skill queue of at most 3 skills A maximum of 12 hours of short skills and one 48 hour+ skill. Either would meet most needs I think. Though really I so reason to place any limit whatsoever as long as the character already already "read" the all the skill books in the queue. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Solbright altalt	Posted - 2008.02.23 02:54:00 - [418] Originally by: Xaen A skill queue of at most 3 skills A maximum of 12 hours of short skills and one 48 hour+ skill. Either would meet most needs I think. Though really I so reason to place any limit whatsoever ... Any improvement of managing requires a matching disincentive for farmers. The one in-game way, listed so far, to achieve that is to Charge ISK. Once that's done then making the queue a large one with no time limit is up for grabs.
Lab Technician071548 Astro-Support Services imPure.	Posted - 2008.03.01 15:12:00 - [419] I would favor a skill queue tht only kicked in if a skill expired during down time. The main problem is unscheduled down time when a player cannot change a skill through no fault of their own but you may as well lump all the down time together. Make it part of the start up routine to catch people up who got screwed. Alternatively, a 1 skill queue wouldn't really help farmers but would really help people who had, say, 2x 5 hour trains, neither of which could really be handled while at work but both of which together would make a reasonable training day. ---- Do you need special permission to type in this color?
Proctor Nitesh	Posted - 2008.03.04 09:27:00 - [420] Ive been playing for 2 years and of the 69 lvl 1 and lvl 2 skills that I have most of them have been at that lvl of advancement for the majority of that time because I can't log in to train 1-2 hour skills all the time every day. Work and family tend to get in the way of that... and this isn't WOW, so don't get me started on months and months of in-game time, those of us that have played for 2+ years know all about in-game time! So DEV'S!!! Web based skill changer, Skill queue skillbook in learning, 3 skill max skill queue... pick one and do it, because this non-action is totally not cool!
Belmarduk	Posted - 2008.03.13 18:51:00 - [421] /signed FFS CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
Buyerr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.15 13:20:00 - [422] bump then :P I declare war on stupidity
Esiel Vinyl Roid The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2008.03.15 17:24:00 - [423] I would like to see this happen but not as a skill or multiple items in a que, just a simple - on deck skill. You finish one and a second starts. Now your que is empty and you can add a new skill there if you want. (mostly I would put a short skill in first and a long in que) so I can stop loosing time because I have a life that doesn't allow me to get on whenever I want Off with your head
DitchDigger Hibi Proletariat Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.17 21:37:00 - [424] I agree - give us some kind of safety net, but not an infinite skill queue.
Cyxopyc Wolfram Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.03.18 13:55:00 - [425] A skill queue of one is plenty and would alleviate 90% of the pain. Though I'm sure even if the skill queue were made to hold 2, or 3, or 30 skills it still wouldn't be enough... us MMOGPers are a hard crowd to plz. == Support fixing the EVE UI
Binary Mind PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:14:00 - [426] always going the confortable way eh? imho, planning your skills is a very important aspect of this game and should never be replaced by some automatic mechanism. Even tho it would be nice to just sit back and know there's no problem with your training, but hey, if your RL prevents you from changing skills, think ahead.... set a LONG skill CCP teached us setting long skills often enough with their extended downtimes :P ♥ you CCP :D
Lenus Daragio Foundry.	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:53:00 - [427] Originally by: Esiel I would like to see this happen but not as a skill or multiple items in a que, just a simple - on deck skill. You finish one and a second starts. Now your que is empty and you can add a new skill there if you want. (mostly I would put a short skill in first and a long in que) so I can stop loosing time because I have a life that doesn't allow me to get on whenever I want /signed No need to have multiples upon multiples queue up. Just one, after the other to ensure you're not losing time. Let's just forget about the ISK sellers and abusers for a seconds and focus on those of us who actually pay to play this game.
Lenus Daragio Foundry.	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:59:00 - [428] Originally by: Binary Mind always going the confortable way eh? imho, planning your skills is a very important aspect of this game and should never be replaced by some automatic mechanism. Even tho it would be nice to just sit back and know there's no problem with your training, but hey, if your RL prevents you from changing skills, think ahead.... set a LONG skill CCP teached us setting long skills often enough with their extended downtimes :P ♥ you CCP :D You miss the point entirely my friend. This is not automated by any means. It simply lets you go on to the next thing you already had planned. I'd imagine there would be some caveats to this, which everyone would agree with. - You can only train one skill at a time - You can only queue one skill after you are training another skill - Pausing your training will empty your queue - You must pay your clone manager 5 Million ISK to queue up a skill - Queueing skills can only be done at stations with a Clone Vat Bay. - You can only queue one skill at a time. - You must be able to train the skill you queue at the time you queue it (E.G., you can't go directly from Mechanic 5 to Assault Ships 1, but you could go from Mechanic 4 to Mechanic 5) This way, there is a drawback, which is the cost. You pause your skill training, you're out 5 million iskies, and lost your queued skill.
Zerchies Great Awakening	Posted - 2008.03.24 19:22:00 - [429] Originally by: Ananaya Add a skill that enables the queue. Each rank allows an additional queue slot. Then you have a max of 5 slots. Make Learning L5 requisite and call the skill Scholar Rank (6) or some such name. This will require that some time be invested in the character before you can use the skill and places a limit on the number of skills you can queue up using already established game mechanics. My two bits. I beileve this is actually a very good idea to have a skill that enables the use of qeue bars and 5 would be the max so that way no1 could leave for a long long time and just be ready to fly a hulk great idea Ananaya!!
DanVanCrone Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.30 04:32:00 - [430] OK, just read every post in one go... and relax... I think a queue is a GREAT idea. even if if was restricted to 2 or 3 in the queue. (5 would be super cool) I don't think Farmers would benefit much, they (or their workforce) are probably logging on to change skills immediately anyway, on lots of accounts 24/7 while ice mining or whatever they do these days. (Or macroing it like others have suggested) Where-as we would benefit greatly: we get to train the shorter skills back to back while at work or whatever and then get to play in the evening with our new toys :) (or longer skills while on holiday/posted overseas etc) If the subscription is paid up and active, i don't see a downside that outweighs the benefits. I'd certainly feel i was progressing a little faster or at least more directly. Where as now, quite often i find I'm logging in after work to switch out that L5 skill I'll be using in a year, for the shorter skill one i want to use now. It would remove that bit of frustration. ---------------------------------------- Note to self... Pocket Cup!
Exyn	Posted - 2008.03.30 08:13:00 - [431] Edited by: Exyn on 30/03/2008 08:14:11 Yeah i'm to lazy to look through like what, 15 pages?, to see if this has been mentioned. What if skill queues will only worked when subbed? And if you go unsubbed, your account will only finish off the current skill training. ------------------------------------------------- U verspil tijd vertalen tekst naar Engels van Nederlands. Translate this text.
MwillyC UNITED KINGDOM MAYHEM Capital Storm	Posted - 2008.03.30 10:27:00 - [432] Originally by: Exyn Edited by: Exyn on 30/03/2008 08:14:11 Yeah i'm to lazy to look through like what, 15 pages?, to see if this has been mentioned. What if skill queues will only worked when subbed? And if you go unsubbed, your account will only finish off the current skill training. Mentioned post number 6 thats not lazy thats bone idle! Skill training is part of the game Im posted overseas atm as are many other guys. I have some skills to lvl 5 I would never have trained to lvl 5 if I hadnt gone away some useful some not so useful. And people who whinge and get all wound up that they miss out on 3 hours training time because training finished 3 hours before they were due to get up, well your either: 1 Not dedicated enough or 2 Get stressed and upset far too easily!
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.03.30 12:56:00 - [433] Originally by: Lenus Daragio - You must pay your clone manager 5 Million ISK to queue up a skill - Queueing skills can only be done at stations with a Clone Vat Bay. The skill queue would be most usefull to new char's that have to change their skill almost every 15 mins at the start. These new char's wont even make 5mil in a day to be able to use this. Also there is a clone vat almost every 15meters in EvE this rly isn't needed.
CrestoftheStars	Posted - 2008.03.30 13:10:00 - [434] signet. would actually be really nice, but i doubt the devs will set it in, have been on the boards since the day of time ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Rudarstilski Alija Sirotanovich Mining Ops	Posted - 2008.03.30 16:56:00 - [435] \signed
Oximus Maximus	Posted - 2008.03.30 17:42:00 - [436] \signed
d3vo	Posted - 2008.03.31 00:28:00 - [437] has ccp responded on this? /signed again...
Belmarduk	Posted - 2008.03.31 11:39:00 - [438] /signed damnit CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
ICommandoI	Posted - 2008.04.01 01:57:00 - [439] /signed
DirtyScooby	Posted - 2008.04.01 12:20:00 - [440] on the point of ccp losing money if people train skills when there account is down ccp could stop skills training when your subscription is not paid i would love to see this and a skill cue
Broken Star Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.14 15:33:00 - [441] SIGNED. I have been waiting for this sort of feature since 03. CCP need to get there finger out, its been in development or at least on the cards for years. Duel training, or queued, or even primary, secondary are all totally viable, and shouldn't increase char farming.
TheMisses	Posted - 2008.04.14 19:39:00 - [442] Edited by: TheMisses on 14/04/2008 19:39:21 /signed Love the idea of training for an extra learning skill to get a queue. And if CCP doesn't want 5 in a queue, the extra learning skill could have 1 skill in queue at lvl1. 2 in queue at lvl3 and 3 in queue at lvl5
Marlona Sky Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.14 23:52:00 - [443] Anything to not force me to wake up in the middle of the night or whatever to change a skill. 24hrs of skills in a row would be nice, or at least 12 hrs worth after the primary finishes or something. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right??
Rastaline	Posted - 2008.04.15 12:14:00 - [444] would just be nice if we could train the dam small skills when we are not online, and set 2 long skills in a line when we are on holiday or something.
Marconi Bandr	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:06:00 - [445] /signed I had logged this suggestion, not realizing there was a live thread on the topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=740972 Bottom line for me, a partial solution is better than nothing. Queue only 1 or two skills, or short training time skills up to some limit. That should eliminate most of the objections. I envision this working similarly to the Autopilot, where you set a skill, add a skill (like adding a waypoint). And theres a short list available of what you have selected which lets you remove, or re-order.
Bandean Truesler Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:17:00 - [446] This is a request to allow ONE training skill to be queued, while actively training the primary skill. This allows for occasional DT, either by design or unexpected, and permits the player the flexibility to continue training during downtimes. While one can argue that everyone should be prepared and set long training times, it does not cover those instances where unexpected downtimes or downtimes during a non-typical time occur. While we can expect these unexpected or extended downtimes to occur, we can not anticipate, as the player base, when they will occur. By allowing ONE skill to be queued it will not effect the balance of the game, but instead will provide a positive customer service between CCP and it's player base and minimize the largest of apparent complaints during these unfortunate occurrences.
Kaneda Tetsuo	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:54:00 - [447] Signed. give us a skill queue dammit!!! (even a small one)
Tmarte Caldari Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.04.27 05:46:00 - [448] I still can't believe no dev response after ages of talking about this topic.
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Very Bad Things	Posted - 2008.04.27 20:39:00 - [449] FFS! How long can a thread go with support and not get a single friggin' response? Give us a yes/no/f**k you anything, please...
CriticalHurt	Posted - 2008.04.27 21:10:00 - [450] 15 pages no CCP answer = wont happen ??
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.04.28 01:54:00 - [451] I have only read the OP and this page, so point out any other posts in this thread I should read. I want to see a skill queue, preferably one that stops working when the account becomes unpaid. Originally by: Lenus Daragio I'd imagine there would be some caveats to this, which everyone would agree with. Actually, I only agree with one of these points. Quote: - You can only train one skill at a time Training multiple skills would be acceptable in place of a queue, as long as each skill trains at 1/x of it's current speed where x is the number of simultaneous skills. When one ends, the speed is recalculated. Quote: - You can only queue one skill after you are training another skill I'd prefer a time based limit to the queue, instead of a limit based on the number of skills. See below. And why should it only be one skill in the queue ? Quote: - Pausing your training will empty your queue Why empty the queue ? Quote: - You must pay your clone manager 5 Million ISK to queue up a skill No. This would screw over: - New players who don't have much ISK, but have a lot of short skills. - Players who have completely unexpected events keeping them away from Eve because they don't spend their ISK on something they doubt they will need. - People who expect an event that doesn't happen, because they wasted their ISK. If you drop the price to be reasonable to those people, it then becomes irrelevant for everyone else. Quote: - Queueing skills can only be done at stations with a Clone Vat Bay. Why is this a good idea ? Quote: - You can only queue one skill at a time. Why limit it by the number of skills ? Quote: - You must be able to train the skill you queue at the time you queue it (E.G., you can't go directly from Mechanic 5 to Assault Ships 1, but you could go from Mechanic 4 to Mechanic 5) So basically, you can't queue a skill till you have added the skillbook. Agreeable. Quote: This way, there is a drawback, which is the cost. You pause your skill training, you're out 5 million iskies, and lost your queued skill. The cost screws over the people standing to benefit most from queues, new players with little ISK and lots of short skills and people who are kept away because of unexpected events. The basic idea behind limiting the queue based on time is that your allowed to queue an unlimited number of skills, but once you add a skill to make your training queue is longer than the limit (say 2 weeks) then you can't add more skills to it. As for people making accounts to train characters on, and leaving those accounts unpaid for most of the time, there are points to consider: - By not logging in often, they use far fewer resources than paid accounts. Meaning they can spend longer between reactivations for CCP to receive the same profit margin off of them. - They still have to reactivate accounts to add skill books once the prerequisites are met. - If a bunch of people make accounts to sell off characters for ISK, they will probably pick similar training plans. Meaning a lot of characters come on the market at around the same time, crashing the price they can sell for. So training a character for sale will be really risky, with a really long payoff time.
Maxwell Murders	Posted - 2008.04.30 14:42:00 - [452] i am totally wanting a skill queuing system. even if it was only to pick 3 skills at a time it really would help it sux im awake right now waiting to change skills nothing else makes me tired for work. makes me not play tomorrow :( and i want to play every day but 3rd day of waiting up late to change skills... man 3rd party anything !!!!!!!! i need to get some sleep. hey make it a skill in it's self needs to be available in the beginning of paying account lol + 1 skill in queue each lvl
Saffron Noire	Posted - 2008.04.30 15:13:00 - [453] Signed, I think Eve needs this as much as we do. I honestly nearly stopped playing after my first month of staying up to all hours, just to change skills. if Eves game play was any less decent, i'd have given up no problem, just because of this problem. Now I'm (relatively) not so new i still find it annoying. Think if all the extra subscriptions CCP will keep if they introduce one Please add a skill queue, even of one or two skills. I think the arguments for a queue are compelling. Maybe CCP is worried about losing daily player numbers, BUT think of the long run, people will train more efficiently and be more in to the game when they're on and probably play for longer, even if they do sign on slightly less often just to train a skill. If we sign on just to train a skill (like we do now) we more than likely sign off a few mins later anyway. CCP please see the long view... Quit tugging my mink!
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Very Bad Things	Posted - 2008.04.30 15:43:00 - [454] A skill required to fill the queue would be fine, and making it unavailable to trial accounts (like they do with other skills) might avert some character farmers. Or perhaps require that you cannot transfer a character until their skill queue has been empty for 90 days or more. Something please! Cross training from one race to another is the best example of why constantly changing skills sucks.
no013 Minmatar Stormwolf Holdings LLC	Posted - 2008.04.30 20:57:00 - [455] I would love this idea, but i found that waiting for your skill to finish up training kept me glue to the screen for hours pass on my intended disconnect time. So I don't think they going to make this happen Artillery cannons = Worst Dps, tracking, range and ammo cap. No cap... Why do we need cap for anything els if your sniping.
BlondieBC Minmatar Ardent Industrial Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:31:00 - [456] signed
Alex Salas BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Dominatus Phasmatis	Posted - 2008.04.30 23:24:00 - [457] /signed skill queue I have lost about two weeks worth of skill train because the server was down or because of work. As customers of CCP we deserve at the minimum a retort to our request. Perhaps Netdevil and their Jumpgate Evolution team can address some of our issues.
Sathamarid	Posted - 2008.05.01 00:59:00 - [458] Edited by: Sathamarid on 01/05/2008 00:59:39 Agreed, even if it's just a 24hr queue. I don't like having to obsess over EVE. If a skill is due to finish in the next 24hrs you should be able to specify what skill you train after that. The thing holding back the skill queue is the character farmers; i don't see a 24 hr skill queue helping them.
Hiro Yashi	Posted - 2008.05.04 10:59:00 - [459] Signed. i'm sick of feeling like an eve obsessive to my friends and family. A skill queue would mask my obsession nicely. Good to read the comments from CCP on this, I find there stance interesting... - Oh wait, they haven't replied to this thread, and its over a year old! Please CCP give us your thoughts, lots of us want this.
tinikiki	Posted - 2008.05.04 14:37:00 - [460] it is sad that ccp is ignoring the playerbase SO much.. this have been requested over since the game started and is still signed by sooo many there is no other mechanic that have been as wished as this and still they don't do anything... it sickens me.. and signed
tinikiki	Posted - 2008.05.04 14:40:00 - [461] Originally by: Alex Salas /signed skill queue Perhaps Netdevil and their Jumpgate Evolution team can address some of our issues. hehe funny i was actually looking at the same thing.. but well there is a long time since it comes so not really a opportunity right now, but well there are other games out there although not space.
rova T Crimson Star Empire	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:27:00 - [462] i agree with this idea
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.05.07 10:02:00 - [463] Originally by: Hiro Yashi Signed. i'm sick of feeling like an eve obsessive to my friends and family. A skill queue would mask my obsession nicely. Good to read the comments from CCP on this, I find there stance interesting... - Oh wait, they haven't replied to this thread, and its over a year old! Please CCP give us your thoughts, lots of us want this. Try going to your parents place for a holiday, and having to bring a copy of the Eve installer with you because they only have dailup, and installing it on a computer that barely meets the minimum requirements (although it has some other odd issues). After previously telling them that Eve Online was the only reason you got a credit card. I did that, though it was because I only had week long skills, I now have long enough skills to prevent this happening again. Currently I just have to login to Eve first thing in the morning to change skills and is doesn't feel right that I'm planning my day around skill training (planning around other players is one thing, planning around game mechanics is another). And where would be the harm here ? Implementing the queue ? At a glance this doesn't look too hard, though I'll actually need someone from CCP to comment to know either way. Extra server load from managing the queue ? Probably countered by a reduction in the number of people who logon only to change a skill. Character farmers ? Worst case is I see a massive oversupply of characters being sold at prices that don't justify the cash spent on the accounts. But I will support a reasonable limit to the queue length to counter this.
Saffron Noire	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:35:00 - [464] Edited by: Saffron Noire on 07/05/2008 11:36:51 Now that the Special Council of Stellar Management is being set-up and elections are on the way, are there and candidates that will try to get an answer to our comments regarding a skill queue? If anyone knows one, they've got my vote and possibly quite a few more from those in this thread. Are there are any candidates with sympathy for this idea? I'm currently reading a lot of information regarding the candidates but have yet to find this mentioned by anyone. Any Candidates out there want to let us know? (edited for spelling errors grrrrr) Quit tugging my mink!
Patrik V2 Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.05.09 21:32:00 - [465] /Signed! Digitally Imported Radio - Free Internet Radio Stations
Ishitar senpai Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:27:00 - [466] /signed
Amenotep Polo Caldari NER Academy	Posted - 2008.05.15 09:46:00 - [467] Originally by: I**ar senpai /signed -- "The future to me is already a thing of the past." Bob Dylan
Rebal 88 Minmatar Infernal Syndicate	Posted - 2008.05.15 12:53:00 - [468] Yes plz. I like the idea. i sign.
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:11:00 - [469] Originally by: Saffron Noire Edited by: Saffron Noire on 07/05/2008 11:36:51 Now that the Special Council of Stellar Management is being set-up and elections are on the way, are there and candidates that will try to get an answer to our comments regarding a skill queue? If anyone knows one, they've got my vote and possibly quite a few more from those in this thread. Are there are any candidates with sympathy for this idea? I'm currently reading a lot of information regarding the candidates but have yet to find this mentioned by anyone. Any Candidates out there want to let us know? (edited for spelling errors grrrrr) I'm guessing that whatever the council members think, there should be enough people wanting a dev reply to be able to hit the 5% threshold needed to force them to bring it up.
Ishitar senpai Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:03:00 - [470] Off-topic It's funny that my name is not allowed here. I really chose a bad name, I didn't even see it until somebody told me that my name contains "s h i t". No chance of changing it I guess? :) On-Topic This won't impact the game in a negative way I think, You'll only get more players interested in eve because they can actually achieve something whilst working or going to school. It's true that people might get 25% more skillpoints, but if everybody gets that "bonus" it'll all be the same in the end. It would be nice if you can let it interact with eveMon (or programmes like it), that way you can plan and execute a skill plan. IÆve read in this post that some people donÆt want it because itÆll make players be online less often. In my eyes this is not true, because if you donÆt go online, you wonÆt have any use for those skills. Also there are players that plan their skill queue with eveMON and get up in the middle of the night to enable the next skill, those people are online the time it takes to enable the next skill. If you implement the queue those people donÆt have to sacrifice their sleep. Anyway, if you can find the time devs, let us know something  Best Regards P.S: Please forgive me for any spelling mistakes, English is not my mother tongue, therefor spelling mistakes are made sometimes :p
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:49:00 - [471] Originally by: I**ar senpai It would be nice if you can let it interact with eveMon (or programmes like it), that way you can plan and execute a skill plan. Problem with this is that someone will write a program that looks like the legit one, but is actually there to kill your skill queue. Or a legit program that only wipes the queue of 1 in 1000 people. I don't view it as a safe idea to give third party programs the ability to edit our Eve data. The API key is only a good idea because it is read only.
Ishitar senpai Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:27:00 - [472] Originally by: Hesod Adee Originally by: I**ar senpai It would be nice if you can let it interact with eveMon (or programmes like it), that way you can plan and execute a skill plan. Problem with this is that someone will write a program that looks like the legit one, but is actually there to kill your skill queue. Or a legit program that only wipes the queue of 1 in 1000 people. I don't view it as a safe idea to give third party programs the ability to edit our Eve data. The API key is only a good idea because it is read only. Yeah, true :). Well, no need for it actually, the skills queue on it's own would be a more than nice feature :) grtz
Yuri Mengeroth Minmatar Very Bad Things	Posted - 2008.05.20 23:12:00 - [473] Having played since 2003, I can definitely say CCP is giving much less feedback in the forums these days than they used to. What's up with that? Is 16 pages of responses in a very old thread not enough to even warrant a "hell no"? I'd at least like to know their position.
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.21 00:21:00 - [474] oh fu*k...16 pages... now this is important announcement: If u meet me in space, please spare my ship, I'm so drunk, I do not even remember your sister's/mother's name...
Musashibou Benkei	Posted - 2008.05.21 06:08:00 - [475] 90% of all the ideas that have been proposed here are absolutely fabulous ideas. "make it so that you have to have your account still active for the skillk queing to work" "have a skill that you train that gives you +1 to skill queing and unavailable to trial accounts" Much like infomorph psychology. I wonder why they haven't even given us a wink about embedding a skill queing system to EVE? Well there's a perfectly good reason and most of the people who haven't posted here have not done so because they understand this reason very well. And I hope that members of CCP read this as well because we want you to know that we aren't stupid lambs. By not creating possibly the most wanted and time-saving feature that almost every EVE pilot wants at some point, they make us waste time. Our skill finishes at 10am but we aren't home till 7pm to set a new skil land we're cursing our pants off. If we saved on that time, CCP will "lose" that playtime. Meaning they're deliberately trying to squeeze as much time out of us as possible. It's all about how much money they can get from us, people. Make no mistake about it.
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.05.21 07:18:00 - [476] Originally by: Musashibou Benkei By not creating possibly the most wanted and time-saving feature that almost every EVE pilot wants at some point, they make us waste time. Our skill finishes at 10am but we aren't home till 7pm to set a new skil land we're cursing our pants off. Your assumption here is that a significant portion of Eve players leave a skill running, instead of switching to a skill that will last over the break. But on my first day playing Eve I managed to work out that I could set a longer skill to run overnight, then switch back to the short skill when I have time. So unless you can back up your assumption here, the rest of your argument is invalid because it is based on a suspicious assumption. So, go ahead, find the proof. Quote: If we saved on that time, CCP will "lose" that playtime. How will they lose out on the playtime. Last time I heard of someone putting all skills into an Evemon plan, it would take decades to train all skills (I haven't done this myself, but I will if you want the proof). So it isn't like a queue would let players hit max skills. Oh look, another point that needs to be addressed, because if you can't address it, the rest of your argument is irrelevant. Quote: Meaning they're deliberately trying to squeeze as much time out of us as possible. It's all about how much money they can get from us, people. Make no mistake about it. If we have two accounts, both fully paid, but one account which only logs in to change skills, which would be more profitable for CCP ? I'd say the one who is online less, because it uses less server resources. Now add a skill queue, and that guy can login less. Now lets take two accounts, a fully active one, and one that is only reactivated every x months to refresh the queue. How large must x be to make the second account less profitable than the first ? How much larger does x need to be to make the account incur a loss to CCP ? As long as the account is profitable, I can't see why CCP wouldn't like it. Especially as the training account isn't encountering various bugs and complaining about them.
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.22 00:11:00 - [477] Originally by: Sunbird Huy oh fu*k...16 pages... now this is important announcement: If u meet me in space, please spare my ship, I'm so drunk, I do not even remember your sister's/mother's name... wow... I actually woke up few hours later on some gate in amarr space...luckily it was hi-sec...
Musashibou Benkei	Posted - 2008.05.22 02:04:00 - [478] so Hesod, you're saying taht you don't want a skill que? That's fine I guess. Just don't train the skill/use the feature. whilst the rest of us can use it and rest in peace when you finish a skill which is a requirement for a low-rank new skill and you want to get that to lvl 3 or 4 or whatever and it's 11pm at night. We can just set that to keep que but you'll either have to come back at 11:30pm and adjust to whatever skill will finish when you wake up or waste a few hours by going to lvl 3 manually. What I'm saying here is that an overwhelmingly large number of EVE pilots want and have wanted skill queing from ages ago and CCP not introducing it makes no sense. Isn't the whole perk about "not having to grind for your skills" part of the awesomeness of EVE? Enter the skill quer and that goal is complete. Get more players who find the idea good and CCP gets more customers. Win-win. And like many people have pointed out, if someone is away for a while then start a new high-rank skill and you won't have to come back for a good month and a half and when you do, lvl 5 is done. Less stress on tranquility for that time and the person doesn't waste their subscription money.
Ishitar senpai	Posted - 2008.05.22 08:30:00 - [479] CCP, really, give some comments on this subject. Maybe you want to keep it a surprise, but still. People want info, that's the human nature :). I don't see a single downside to this plan. You (ccp) won't lose money (accounts need to be activated to continue the queue), people will be happier in general because they can get in that capital ship without getting up at 3 am to switch skills to keep the optimum skill queue going. You will get more new players to actually buy an account = more profit ;).
Musashibou Benkei	Posted - 2008.05.23 04:37:00 - [480] Originally by: I**ar senpai CCP, really, give some comments on this subject. Maybe you want to keep it a surprise, but still. People want info, that's the human nature :). I don't see a single downside to this plan. You (ccp) won't lose money (accounts need to be activated to continue the queue), people will be happier in general because they can get in that capital ship without getting up at 3 am to switch skills to keep the optimum skill queue going. You will get more new players to actually buy an account = more profit ;). So damn true. And it also means that people won't need to come on unless they're playing = less unwanted people online. that means less stress on the servers
Ullyses Sounds Of Violence	Posted - 2008.05.23 04:51:00 - [481] I fully Endorce / Recomend this Product / Service / Idea
Lusulpher Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2008.05.23 05:01:00 - [482] Originally by: I**ar senpai CCP, really, give some comments on this subject. Maybe you want to keep it a surprise, but still. People want info, that's the human nature :). I don't see a single downside to this plan. You (ccp) won't lose money (accounts need to be activated to continue the queue), people will be happier in general because they can get in that capital ship without getting up at 3 am to switch skills to keep the optimum skill queue going. You will get more new players to actually buy an account = more profit ;). Stated months ago, but the fear was macro-management of alts for sale or for macroing... Seeing as how CCP is losing the war against macroplayers and fighting ISK salesmen directly, they really should just go ahead and get us this important fix. Live and Let Die...All of it...null
Astral Water	Posted - 2008.05.23 05:10:00 - [483] Signed. Excuses. Even one in the queue would be invaluable.
Veryez	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:44:00 - [484] Signed and agreed with. There's another long post on this here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=531551 Even a 24 hour que would be a huge help.
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.05.23 22:31:00 - [485] Originally by: Musashibou Benkei so Hesod, you're saying taht you don't want a skill que? No, I've made it quite clear that I want the skill queue in my other posts. It's just that I read your previous post as saying CCP won't introduce a queue because it will reduce their profits, so I responded to say how I don't see the queue reducing their profits. So I apologise for reading your post wrong. Originally by: Veryez Signed and agreed with. There's another long post on this here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=531551 Personally I see two threads covering the same issue, and I feel that the other one is in the wrong place (we are asking for changes to the game), so I don't pay it any attention. So if there are any arguments in there that need answering, could someone either copy/paste them here or link directly to that post ? Originally by: I**ar senpai CCP, really, give some comments on this subject. If we get enough support here, I think it would force CCP into giving a reply
MentaFox StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.05.25 23:22:00 - [486] /signed ----------------------
ninjaholic Aliastra	Posted - 2008.05.25 23:31:00 - [487] Hell yea, skill queue pls. But just one skill in the queue at most! Eve O's in-game fight record tool!!
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.05.26 00:46:00 - [488] Originally by: ninjaholic But just one skill in the queue at most! Why only have one skill ?
ceyriot Induseng Enterprises R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.28 00:59:00 - [489] /signed, doesn't even matter how many can be in the thing... Faction Store - Killboard
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.28 01:10:00 - [490] Quote: The Devs have stated on a number of occasions the reasoning behind the decision to not introduce a skill queue system and a web-based interface for skill selection. Mostly, it centers around this being a game we want you to play, not a web-based competition centered around who can get to 100 Million skill points the fastest. There are work arounds for time constraints under the existing system. Set a short skill for the times when you are playing, a longer skill for the times when you are not available. We are having a difficult enough time enforcing the issues caused by ISK and item sellers, let alone players selling characters on Ebay. We are not going to introduce another game mechanic that will allow 'character farmers' an easier time with their trade. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=230187&page=3#63 i would still like at least a default skill.
gunnar aztek Royal Stoned United	Posted - 2008.06.17 22:36:00 - [491] ... /signed also: allow full access api to change skills ? (evemon anyone :D) -------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity :P
Tatosi	Posted - 2008.06.20 06:28:00 - [492] I don't think there should be a skill queue. It would make the game easier. Part of skill training is planning when they'll end so you can be at your computer to switch to the next one. It's already easy enough to where we don't even technically have to do anything to train, we don't have to destroy enemy ships or do missions. All we really have to do is let it do its thing. The only strategic elements of skill training is of course what order you train them in, but also being there to switch to the next skill (time management). So why do we want to make it easier?
To mare	Posted - 2008.06.20 07:09:00 - [493] /signed
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.06.20 12:17:00 - [494] Originally by: gunnar aztek ... /signed also: allow full access api to change skills ? (evemon anyone :D) This, unfortunately, is why CCP won't allow Skill Queues just yet. There's already a "black market" for skilled characters. You can buy someones 5 year old characters off eBay if you want to. Of course, CCP would rather you trade them legally, but that's also kinda lame IMO. Why even bother playing the game, if you're going to buy a character that's already mastered their career. Why go to college and learn business, when you can just put on a Bill Gates costume and be done with it. If a skill queue could encompass (1) more skill after your current training, it wouldn't overpower the system. You can start a Lvl II skill, set Lvl III for later on, and come back a few hours later. If you start a Lvl V, and set another Lvl V, you can take that vacation you wanted without worrying that you're missing training time. If you could link Evemon directly to the game, you could start a totally new character and tell them to learn Titans. Then pay Eve like you do the electric bill, and a year later have a Titan pilot you can sell on eBay to tons of cash. THAT'S why they won't let you have total freedom on skill training.
Dmian Starline Engineering Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.20 13:50:00 - [495] Edited by: Dmian on 20/06/2008 13:51:05 Originally by: Marcus Gideon stuff Well, not exactly. The reason they deny external access to the DB is because it's too risky. They only allow access through the client, that they can control (they do an integrity check when you connect to the server to see if you haven't modified the software.) Allowing web access (or external clients access, for that matter) to the DB is putting the DB in jeopardy, risking the DB to a possible SQL injection or other kind of problems. So, whatever decision they take, it must solved using either the DB or the client. * API data is only read from the DB, so basically it's safe data. So, still waiting for this (third paragraph from the bottom.) ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Soulgard	Posted - 2008.06.28 14:28:00 - [496] IDK if this has been said and maybe i know too little of the game atm and being this thread is too damn long i have'nt read all the posts but with the skill queing idea. Implement a way to have players acquire the ability to que one skill no matter what it is and or maybe with a restriction, using this ability uses up a que point for example. The way to earn this que point is done in a manner which makes it counter productive for farmers, for example with mission running every so many missions we get a storyline mission, upon succesful completion of this storyline mission the agent rewards you a skill que point, this point again allows you to que up 2 skills of choice for training. Once this point is spent and a que has been created another skill may not be qued untill another point is earned, and to avoid an over powered system of skill training make it so only 2 skills maybe qued at a time. As i mentioned idk if this has been said but if there is another system that farmers do not engage in maybe you can use that as a way to earn que points this way honest players benefit from it. Just an idea to throw into the pot.
Ruhige Schmerz E.M.P. Industries	Posted - 2008.06.29 00:43:00 - [497] Too much thought and too little logic has gone into debating this topic. There's no reason to not implement the queue. Problem: Skills keep training when you aren't subscribed. Solution: Make it so they don't. Problem: People are only logging on to train skills and not play, and will never log on. Solution: Who cares? CCP is still getting their money from some idiot that thinks setting a long skill tree is 'playing' Problem: Farmers will um.. do whatever. Solution: Who cares? These farming ops run 24 hours a day anyway with some new drone making $0.25/hr operating the farm character. You can be sure the skills they think they need are being constantly monitored and set as if it were queued. If they are macro-mining they almost certainly are macro-skilling as well. Seriously. There are no logical arguments against implementing this.
Tristaynia Dam'Ildain	Posted - 2008.06.29 01:54:00 - [498] Not got much to add with this many pages of input. I am an offshore worker, and while I have internet access out here the EVE ports are blocked, so currently I have to rely on friends to develop my character for the few months I'm a way at a time, which is a pain for them and doesn't always go as I want. Would be great if before I go away I could just fire in a list of skills. Or in my case even if i could log into the website side of things and change my skill from there!
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.06.29 02:00:00 - [499] In 17 pages, and 497 posts... has CCP commented at all? --- Don't take my rantings personally. I'm more than likely arguing the point at hand, and anyone playing "Devil's Advocate" will feel my wrath.
Hesod Adee Militants of Xen	Posted - 2008.06.29 09:24:00 - [500] Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz Problem: Farmers will um.. do whatever. Solution: Who cares? These farming ops run 24 hours a day anyway with some new drone making $0.25/hr operating the farm character. You can be sure the skills they think they need are being constantly monitored and set as if it were queued. If they are macro-mining they almost certainly are macro-skilling as well. More to the point, the character farmers would already have some way to automate skill changes, unless something prevents their login (and this something would either be a ban, or something effecting other players). But if a queue does attract more farmers, that just means that they all get lower prices. And accounts that have only ever logged in to change skills or manage GTCs should already be flagged as suspicious. Especially if the character is then transferred. Personally I think that anyone willing to risk this long term investment should be capable of acquiring a skill changing bot.
ceyriot Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.07.07 12:17:00 - [501] /me wants ones already Faction Store - Killboard
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:23:00 - [502] This is another idea beating to death, then to a pulp and a wet spot, sucked up, frozen to a solid block and beaten some more. Can we have it stickied and shot down once for all why it's never going to happen? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Trebor Daehdoow Gallente LEAP Corp Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.07.14 16:31:00 - [503] I personally feel that the real thing that annoys people isn't the lack of a queue, but rather lost skill training time. A simple solution for this would be as follows -- a background process that checks on the skill training status of all the characters, and starts them training a new skill if a skill has finished training. I would suggest something like this: if the player is not logged in, and the last skill finished training 10 minutes or more in the past, then start training the known skill that will take the least amount of time to complete (and if possible, does not finish during a scheduled downtime) I for one would pay a few million ISK a month for such an insurance policy. World Domination - It's fun for the entire family! EViE - The iPhone / iPod Touch Skill Training Monitor
Katashi Ishizuka Caldari Tritanium Workers Union	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:06:00 - [504] People posting in this thread should stay abreast of the CSM minutes. A 1-skill queue has been approved and is on the development team's high priority list of features to implement, per the last CSM meeting in Iceland.
soldieroffortune 258	Posted - 2008.07.14 23:44:00 - [505] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Originally by: gunnar aztek ... /signed also: allow full access api to change skills ? (evemon anyone :D) This, unfortunately, is why CCP won't allow Skill Queues just yet. There's already a "black market" for skilled characters. You can buy someones 5 year old characters off eBay if you want to. Of course, CCP would rather you trade them legally, but that's also kinda lame IMO. Why even bother playing the game, if you're going to buy a character that's already mastered their career. Why go to college and learn business, when you can just put on a Bill Gates costume and be done with it. If a skill queue could encompass (1) more skill after your current training, it wouldn't overpower the system. You can start a Lvl II skill, set Lvl III for later on, and come back a few hours later. If you start a Lvl V, and set another Lvl V, you can take that vacation you wanted without worrying that you're missing training time. If you could link Evemon directly to the game, you could start a totally new character and tell them to learn Titans. Then pay Eve like you do the electric bill, and a year later have a Titan pilot you can sell on eBay to tons of cash. THAT'S why they won't let you have total freedom on skill training. ah, i see your logic there, i hadnt thought about it this way, so ok maybe add a max of 2-3 skills in the que, and they cant be a skill your going to train to lvl 5, maybe not even level 4, but anyway, its an ok idea
Nayomi Minmatar Mean Anglo-Danes	Posted - 2008.07.14 23:46:00 - [506] Originally by: Emylissan I hate to say that but it could be heavy abused. Choosing a few "12 days to learn skills" in that queue and than safe the money for the subsciption, let it expire and make something else the next month, and than a month later you pay again and the chars skilled all those long time skills without that you had to pay. Its already nice that a started skills finishs even when the paid time expired. That way ccp may loose alot money cause some people could simply stop paying and when they return their char is ready to fly the hulk. Just set it up to freeze skill training when a subscription runs out. It seems like that is something that should already be in place anywaty.
Hesod Adee Militants of Xen	Posted - 2008.07.15 06:08:00 - [507] Edited by: Hesod Adee on 15/07/2008 06:09:30 Originally by: Nayomi Just set it up to freeze skill training when a subscription runs out. It seems like that is something that should already be in place anywaty. Skills continuing to train when the subscription ends is probably left in because it requires less coding (and debugging) than checking to see if an account has gone unpaid. If CCP implements a queue that will not let you add more skills once the already queued skills will take longer than x days, then the amount of time an unpaid account will continue training is only x + {however long an unpaid account stays training now}. All without having to add code to check if an account has gone unpaid while it's still training.
Nyx Spire	Posted - 2008.08.03 04:56:00 - [508] /signed
Hesod Adee Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.23 00:42:00 - [509] Lets discuss the kinds of queues that CCP could implement, and which ones we would prefer to see. Currently I can think of the following kinds of queues: Simple queue You make a list of skills to train. When one finishes, the next one starts. Count limited queue A simple queue, however the lists of queued skills can never have more than x skills in it. Time limited queue A simple queue, however if the training time of the queue is longer than x days then no other skills can be added to the queue. The following options are not queues, but would still solve the same issues that a skill queue would. Simultaneous skill training Players are allowed to have up to x (where x > 1) skills training on their account at any one time. When training n skills, all skills will training at 1/n of their full training speed. When one skill finishes then all the remaining skills speed up to training at 1/(n-1) of their full speed, since there are now n-1 skills being trained. When the last skill ends, nothing gets trained. Backdated training I do not like this option, but it looks like it will use the least server resources. When you have no skills training and go to start one, the game will act as if the skill has been training since the latest of these following times: - When the previous skill finished on the account. - When skill training was last paused. - When the account last became active. - When you last plugged in an implant / used a jump clone. This means that if you have a 20 hour skill and the time looked up was 1 hour ago, you instantly get 1 hour of training. If you haven't trained for 20 hours and start a 1 hour skill, then it trains instantly and you now only have 19 hours saved up. To prevent possible exploits around implants the following would be required: - When you get podded, you must spend all of your saved training time (or run out of stuff to train) before you can load into the station. This happens at the training speed you had before dying. - You can not clone jump or add/remove implants unless you get your saved time down to under 10 minutes. If any of you have any other ideas, please share them. Personally I'd prefer to see simultaneous skill training because it would allow people to easily devote a portion or their training time to skill training while still getting access to new stuff at a reasonable rate. Maybe have simultaneous training with a queue so that if an skill ends, the next one on the queue starts. Backdating just doesn't feel right.
Tomar Canitul	Posted - 2008.08.29 22:02:00 - [510] Perhaps a variant on this would be to have the ability to set a secondary skill to train at the same time as the first. make it fair by training the second skill at half speed. if the first skill finishes, then the secondary skill moves into the first skill slot and begins to train at full speed.
Dmian Gallente Starline Engineering Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.29 23:26:00 - [511] Full Skill Queue Put one skill to train, and it trains all the way up to level 5. Easy to implement, since the system only need to know which skill where you training and since when. ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Hesod Adee Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.30 04:29:00 - [512] Originally by: Tomar Canitul Perhaps a variant on this would be to have the ability to set a secondary skill to train at the same time as the first. make it fair by training the second skill at half speed. if the first skill finishes, then the secondary skill moves into the first skill slot and begins to train at full speed. So simultaneous training, but each skill training at a different speed ? It could work. Though if your wanting the second skill to be training at 0.5 times the current speed, either your also having the first skill at 0.5x or your still giving a training speed advantage to people who are able to be on when the skill finishes. Originally by: Dmian Full Skill Queue Put one skill to train, and it trains all the way up to level 5. Easy to implement, since the system only need to know which skill where you training and since when. And it fails in the following situations: 1 - When you know that you will never want to take the skill all the way to level 5. For instance, Jury Rigging 5 serves no purpose to anyone. 2 - When your skill will reach level 5 at an annoying time. So it would still have people logging in at odd hours of the day just to change skills, just not as many as if we didn't have any queue.
Ezekiel Amann	Posted - 2008.08.31 01:01:00 - [513] bump
GSlav	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:13:00 - [514] It would be great to make a skill training queue - this will allow to lower server loading, because alot of players will be offline while skills grow. Low server load = less money spends on its service. As well as more chances for exploring, lowsec farming, low traffic on stargates, galaxy will explore quicker etc (so maybe CCP can put another galaxy to eve? )
Ydyp Ieva Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2008.09.03 07:48:00 - [515] The times queue seems for me the best solution if they put in one. Why? Because most people have a set time they can't log on, due to work, school or whatever other occasion. This especially hurts the newer starter chars that still have to train a lot of skills in the lower ranges that finished each few hours. So to overcome that a queue that can take up to 20 hours (time can be discussed) would be a nice solution to this situation. Set the smaller skills in the queue, go to work/school, come back home and don't have wasted time cause your skill only took 5 hours to train. This timed queue also makes people still have to log in on certain times to switch skills or refill the queue. And as said the time is still open to discussion. But it could be 24 hours, or the time a rank 10 need to go from 4 to 5, or the time it takes to train a rank 1 from scratch to level 5 and so on. As veterans can set a lot longer skills for training then the newbies. Also another thing that should be put in with any sorts of queue is that you can't put a skill in there that you don't know. So a no to getting skillbooks then use the queue to train those.
Hesod Adee Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:54:00 - [516] With the removal of Ghost training it looks like we will not have anyone able to train while their account is unpaid.
commander poppy	Posted - 2008.10.18 01:19:00 - [517] i agree. skill queue please. and new shiney stuff to collect
ShadowDraqon Awesome Industries Group	Posted - 2008.10.18 01:41:00 - [518] Originally by: Zieferian this has probably been proposed a million times now indeed >.> ____________________ I had a sig here, but I NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM nommed it...
Nexus Vaikai Caldari IRON CROSS LEGION SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2008.10.18 15:01:00 - [519] Regardless of being proposed or not a million times. It's something that should be added. Personally I don't have the time to wake up at 3am to change my rank 6 skills or to change them again when I'm at work. CCP I suggest if you haven't already get cracking on this idea. It's excellent and I'm sure it would make a lot more people join eve and keep playing. Personally I'm on the verge of canceling as my game experience being ruined because I have a full time job and some other players can play 23/7. It gives an unfair advantage. After all isn't the idea of a timed skill lvl to balance game play so that someone playing just as long as you doesn't insta pop you with you not having a fair chance. Being a noob in EVE is tiring and frustrating especially having to change skills every couple of hours...but I stuck it out and now a year later I'm still upset that I have to log on at random times to keep the status quo. IRON CROSS Recruiter
Nexus Vaikai Caldari IRON CROSS LEGION SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2008.10.18 15:03:00 - [520] PS I'd love it if you had this coming out with quantum winter update. IRON CROSS Recruiter
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.10.18 17:19:00 - [521] now that CCP f-d us on the ghost training, sure, better have Skill Queue... ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
JanSVK	Posted - 2008.10.19 20:57:00 - [522] /Signed. There is no reason not to implement skill queue and if there is I really want to know it.
Tomar Canitul	Posted - 2008.10.21 13:44:00 - [523] Perhaps an feature that could be added to a skill queue is the ability to import your plan from evemon. sometimes I have a set of new skills I want to train, each that are starting at level 1. it would be nice to be able to set all my low level skills to high priority and wake up with most of them done in the morning or let the low level skills I'm training go while I'm at work. like evemon you could have multiple plans and switch between them as needed, or one single plan. (hint: talk to the evemon people and integrate it into the game)
Angra Mainyu Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.10.21 18:50:00 - [524] Please, please, please CCP give us a skill queue of some type. I hate losing training time because I am at work...
Mardris Fol	Posted - 2008.11.12 12:26:00 - [525] Timing skill training changes isn't fun and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be added now that ghost training has been eliminated. There would be no longer th epossiblity of loading up several years of training on the character and letting the sub lapse. The current lack of buffering means that you have to be online at the time. This makes it hard for people with regular life schedules. Mostly I have a 4-5 hours window each day when I can change skills. Arranging plans to meet this restriction becomes mathematical puzzle. Changing skills from 'work' is potentially risky and is something that shouldn't be necessary. It also makes you vulnerable to server crashes - I lost the better part of an hours training earlier this week to the server failures during the evening. Personally I would be happy with a single 'next to train' slot. This would avoid the need to be online at the precise moment a skill completes, provides insurance against Eve system faults and means that you can complete shorter skills (say <20h) in a daily cycle without losing time by padding with a second skill. This doesn't affect the amount of time you need to be online - to use the system you still need to logon as often as before - but it would remove a lot of the stress. A longer queue might be nice for some people but doesn't add that much more and opens up counter arguments about people just starting a char, loading up a training schedule and then leaving it on sub for 6 months or more. So give us some sort of queue/buffer for skill changes please!
Pvt Public7 Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.13 02:46:00 - [526] What Madris said. As an Aussie, I do very, very want a 'Train this skill next' box. Downtime is currently 10-11 PM for me, which means I lose one of my few available gaming hours to change skills. It'd be real nice if I just had to chuck my next skill into a box and know that it'll be training in the morning. --- SWA was here IAC is a loser
Llammet	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:56:00 - [527] Yarr, some kind of skill queue please. Whether it is a full deal that could be imported from evemon or only being able to queue one skill. With the elimination of ghost training there is no reason not to do this for your full time paying customers.
Rosalina Sarinna Aliastra	Posted - 2008.11.14 21:02:00 - [528] I'm all in favour of just 1 "train this next" option in the skill list.
Pagey Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.11.25 06:33:00 - [529] Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna I'm all in favour of just 1 "train this next" option in the skill list. Since there is no ghost-training anymore this would be perfect. CCP make it plz ___
Memorya Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.25 09:06:00 - [530] Originally by: Pagey Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna I'm all in favour of just 1 "train this next" option in the skill list. Since there is no ghost-training anymore this would be perfect. CCP make it plz I agree ... CCP PLEASE !!! give us some way to automaticly change skill after is done Metal lives forever !!
Manos Soban	Posted - 2008.11.25 10:43:00 - [531] Skill queue up to 2 skills
sir gankalot	Posted - 2008.12.05 15:25:00 - [532] Skill queue, don't care much about what kind of queue, anything should be better than the current system.
Nikolai Razkolnikov	Posted - 2009.01.23 16:34:00 - [533] Yes, Skill Queue, at least 1 skill deep! Pretty please?
Liu	Posted - 2009.01.23 17:31:00 - [534] yes, as has been said, a "next skill" option would we of inmense help, and still would force players to log in as many times as before. just not at unwanted/undesirable times. Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
Alexander Vallen	Posted - 2009.01.24 02:08:00 - [535] Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna I'm all in favour of just 1 "train this next" option in the skill list. /signed and bumped. I'd like to go on holiday someplace without an internet connection some time this year.
Th0rG0d	Posted - 2009.01.24 03:38:00 - [536] I am agreed. 1 skill queue that must be known already, even if it is just 1% done to lvl 1. As long as it appears in your skill listing. /signed I would like to see a CCP response to this, now that they've taken away the exploit potential
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2009.02.08 16:30:00 - [537] Edited by: Solbright on 08/02/2009 16:31:08 Job done - more queue queue I still recommend charging ISK to fill the queue. It will be interesting to see how bad pilot farming becomes.
MonkeyFit	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:08:00 - [538] Originally by: Solbright Edited by: Solbright on 08/02/2009 16:31:08 Job done - more queue queue I still recommend charging ISK to fill the queue. It will be interesting to see how bad pilot farming becomes. It's only a 24 hour queue. Now the character farmers won't have to plan their farming around work/sleep.
Hesod Adee KDS Navy	Posted - 2009.02.10 19:43:00 - [539] Originally by: MonkeyFit Originally by: Solbright Edited by: Solbright on 08/02/2009 16:31:08 Job done - more queue queue I still recommend charging ISK to fill the queue. It will be interesting to see how bad pilot farming becomes. It's only a 24 hour queue. Now the character farmers won't have to plan their farming around work/sleep. Not that they had to anyway, as they had bots to handle skill changing. ----------------------------------------------
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2009.02.11 11:11:00 - [540] Originally by: Hesod Adee Not that they had to anyway, as they had bots to handle skill changing. Some will, some won't. Some have prolly even been banned for the practice - that costs them. But now it's so much easier and safer for the more casual farmer to take up the reins. ------ Vote for Low graphics client
Hesod Adee KDS Navy	Posted - 2009.02.11 20:21:00 - [541] Originally by: Solbright Originally by: Hesod Adee Not that they had to anyway, as they had bots to handle skill changing. Some will, some won't. Some have prolly even been banned for the practice - that costs them. But now it's so much easier and safer for the more casual farmer to take up the reins. So we are talking about a character that: - Only gets logged on for skill training. - Gets the ISK for the skill books from elsewhere. - Changes accounts at some point for a lower amount of ISK than what other characters are going for. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to identify such character farmers ? But I've yet to see anyone even attempt to convince me that character farming is a problem now. To do that I will need to see: - Some estimation of how much the farmers will sell a character for based on its SP. - How long it would take that character to earn that much SP. - Some estimate of the black market rate of ISK. If the training time requires the farmer to of paid more in subscription fees than the character will sell for, and the ISK spent on GTCs was worth more than the character, you will have a hard time convincing me. In fact it the value of the character will need to be significantly above the cost of the subscription, since character farming takes longer to pay off, meaning a higher risk. It all comes down to the numbers. ----------------------------------------------
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2009.02.12 00:45:00 - [542] Edited by: Solbright on 12/02/2009 00:53:08 Originally by: Hesod Adee Surely it wouldn't be too hard to identify such character farmers ? Identifying skill changing bots is the trick, not someone that is only skilling a pilot. Quote: But I've yet to see anyone even attempt to convince me that character farming is a problem now. Certainly, CCP are not showing too much concern. I guess it's a question of how much more one extra GTC adds to the sell price. That would be the sort of extra ISK I envisage being needed.
Kaneda Tetsuo	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:55:00 - [543] Thank you for the skill queue CCP :) Although it's only 24hrs its great to have one at last, awesome job!!!!
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Eclats de verre	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:01:00 - [544] I piled 5 skills I never took time to train before because they were 1~3 hours long. Also I didn't have to switch the end of my level 5 skill ending during the work. Thanks. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Eisbrecker Minmatar DevilDog Brigade	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:17:00 - [545] anyone else notice on EVE Mon the queued skills show up as only 99% completed not 100%. Haven't checked in game yet to see if it is this way in-game or just EVE Mon.
Terminus Vindictus Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.11 17:06:00 - [546] Originally by: Eisbrecker anyone else notice on EVE Mon the queued skills show up as only 99% completed not 100%. Haven't checked in game yet to see if it is this way in-game or just EVE Mon. People are reporting this in-game as well. There's some sort of bug with the queue, and some people are apparently losing skills. I'm sticking with manual mode until it gets resolved. Hello, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help.

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