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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 06:51:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Crikey! The final nail on the coffin. That is one of the high sec freighter griefing exploit that you have mentioned. Kind of strange that many people killers do not admit it.
I am also a Player vs Playerless gamer and I admit the drone exploit in high sec is lame especially when it is used to grief freighters. I wish CCP would do something about it.
CCP could also give freighters some defensive slots.
You are, by far, the most ignorant person I have ever seen on these forums.
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Twarda Sztuka
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Posted - 2007.05.02 12:07:00 -
[302]
Hi Everyone
I always try to find middle ground in all discussions. As with every discussion there are two camps. Here one camp is a group of people who have or would like to have Freighter. The other are pirates and pvpers. This time it was very hard for me to find middle ground as I completely agree with people who hate being attacked in hi-sec areas.
Basic observations:
1) Patch that made frighters drop loot didn't change the potential loss to the haulers. If you had 1bn ship with 10bn cargo and were destroyed before patch, your loss was the same as now.
2) Patch did change one thing: made freighters more benefitial targets for pirates.
3) There are people in this discussion who called Freighters isk factories.
4) Financial loss of ganking group isless than financial loss of Freighter + Cargo
Few suggestions:
Since the 0.5+ systems are supposed to be safer there is controll mechanism (CONCORD) which doesn't work very well in case of ganking. If ship is destroyed in 0.5+ space without any aggression on its side (as it is with Freighters) insurance should cover it and send bill to CONCORD ;) But seriously, it should be not profitable for suicide gankers, or at least not in each attack. So there are few ways of doing it: 1) Make Freighters slightly more difficult to destroy. 2) Make insurance variable. (for each ship destroyed in hi-sec space increase the cost of insurance for player). 3) Add automatic cargo scanner jamming in hi-sec space. This way gankers will never know if it is profitable to destroy this particular freighter.
Now for the gankers:
It is lame. You call it isk factories, but in fact it is you who want to reap benefits with minimum work. Hauling itself is not very rewarding job. People who use frighters have to spend lot of time checking market prices, buying goods, getting them together, moving across many systems, and then selling. You are discouraging other players from playing eve. Of course if someone tries to move Freighter through low-sec space it is fair game, but attacks in hi-sec are at least rude.
Also think about what you loose because of it. The fact that haulers are making profit is side effect. You might be jealous, but their work is important for eve economy. They equilize the market in different regions. I really hope that next time you will destroy Freighter and will have to buy few BSs, you will have to travel 30+ jumps to get one at reasonable price. Than another 30+ jumps to buy overpriced ammo.
Final thing you should consider is that each player do something that he likes. If you will discorage haulers, it will have effect on producers and then on miners. If every single player would only play PvP you would have a lot of problems getting anything bigger than cruiser. That is main reason for dividing space to hi-sec and low-sec. Lot of people are not interested in wars with others. Discourage them and they will move to other games. You know what outcome it might have? Higher subscription prices (lower player base). Next time there will be raise in subscription fees don't whine about it as you probably contributed to it.
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Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.02 12:27:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
I always try to find middle ground in all discussions. As with every discussion there are two camps. Here one camp is a group of people who have or would like to have Freighter. The other are pirates and pvpers. This time it was very hard for me to find middle ground as I completely agree with people who hate being attacked in hi-sec areas.
I find it interesting that you claim to want to take the middle ground and then you promptly say that you are biased. This bias shows in the rest of your post too.
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
1) Patch that made frighters drop loot didn't change the potential loss to the haulers. If you had 1bn ship with 10bn cargo and were destroyed before patch, your loss was the same as now.
2) Patch did change one thing: made freighters more benefitial targets for pirates.
3) There are people in this discussion who called Freighters isk factories.
All true.
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
4) Financial loss of ganking group isless than financial loss of Freighter + Cargo
Not necessarily true, but given the fact that:
5) Most freighter pilots are unwilling to adapt to changing circumstances
it becomes very true as well.
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
Since the 0.5+ systems are supposed to be safer there is controll mechanism (CONCORD) which doesn't work very well in case of ganking. If ship is destroyed in 0.5+ space without any aggression on its side (as it is with Freighters) insurance should cover it and send bill to CONCORD ;) But seriously, it should be not profitable for suicide gankers, or at least not in each attack.
It should be profitable for organized suicide gankers. It won't be profitable if they come up against organized freighter pilots.
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
So there are few ways of doing it: 1) Make Freighters slightly more difficult to destroy.
Why? Up the ceiling? Make it cost 900 million instead of 600 million to destroy you, or make you completely invulnerable?
cont...
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.02 12:27:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Ki An on 02/05/2007 12:23:36
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
2) Make insurance variable. (for each ship destroyed in hi-sec space increase the cost of insurance for player).
I see what you're getting at here, but that's not really gonna hurt gankers as much as anyone else. Like carebears like to say: Look at the map. There's a lot of ships destroyed every day in high sec. How many of those do you think is due to suicide ganking?
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
3) Add automatic cargo scanner jamming in hi-sec space. This way gankers will never know if it is profitable to destroy this particular freighter.
Pray tell what the use of cargo scanners are then? Just for low sec? Low sec where you don't need to scan because you don't risk Concord spoiling your day?
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
It is lame. You call it isk factories, but in fact it is you who want to reap benefits with minimum work. Hauling itself is not very rewarding job. People who use frighters have to spend lot of time checking market prices, buying goods, getting them together, moving across many systems, and then selling. You are discouraging other players from playing eve. Of course if someone tries to move Freighter through low-sec space it is fair game, but attacks in hi-sec are at least rude.
Here you show your true metal. You throw unbiased to the wind and take a firm stance in the carebear camp. You call organizing 30 domis with sufficient skills, as well as support in form of looters and scouts minimum work? At the same time you try to claim that the freighter pilot is doing enough work by flying his ship from point A to point B? I mean, come on! If the gankers put in minimum work, the freighter pilot surely isn't doing any work at all.
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
Also think about what you loose because of it. The fact that haulers are making profit is side effect. You might be jealous, but their work is important for eve economy. They equilize the market in different regions. I really hope that next time you will destroy Freighter and will have to buy few BSs, you will have to travel 30+ jumps to get one at reasonable price. Than another 30+ jumps to buy overpriced ammo.
You do know that most PvPers do industrial stuff on the side, or have a second account to do it for them, right? PvPing is seldom a lucrative business. You have to get very lucky to be able to live off of it solely. So, no, we don't need carebears.
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
Final thing you should consider is that each player do something that he likes. If you will discorage haulers, it will have effect on producers and then on miners. If every single player would only play PvP you would have a lot of problems getting anything bigger than cruiser. That is main reason for dividing space to hi-sec and low-sec. Lot of people are not interested in wars with others. Discourage them and they will move to other games. You know what outcome it might have? Higher subscription prices (lower player base). Next time there will be raise in subscription fees don't whine about it as you probably contributed to it.
And you pull the old "Carebears are good for CCP because they bring in accounts". Well, you are dead wrong here. EvE is a niched game for people who like all the aspects. That's why we don't have more than 180.000 or so accounts, and that's why we have a single server. EvE don't need WoW-numbers. EvE only caters to those that enjoy the gameplay, and that gameplay involves being really really mean sometimes. I don't care if some poor sucker lost all he had in a gank, and neither should you. If he put himself in that situation and can't suck it up and start over, he's not cut out for EvE.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.05.02 14:03:00 -
[305]
There is something that seems to be forgotten in this thread.
Freighters are an essential part of any corporations/alliances logistical backbone. Freighters as targets provide meaningful goals for corporation/alliance warfare. As such they are an essential part of eve pvp. The fact that some ppl jump corp for a newbie corp, an exploit by the way, to avoid the hazards of a war dec, does not mean that ppl taking down said freighters is "ganking" or "griefing". They are legitimate targets, and quite good targets as such.
And. Empire is not supposed to be safe. It is more secure, but still, rather than limitations, it has penalties assosiated with criminal activities... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.05.02 14:18:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 01/05/2007 22:59:01
Originally by: Rawthorm Edited by: Rawthorm on 01/05/2007 21:47:08 It's amazing how in 10 pages of bickering, most people loos sight of the ONLY issue here. Drones bypass concord ECM, effectivly curcumventing a cruicial game mechanic. Its an exploit plain and simple, just like divising a way to survive a concord attack would be.
If CCP find a way to make concord jam drones and you still gank a freighter the old way then hats off to you.
Crikey! The final nail on the coffin. That is one of the high sec freighter griefing exploit that you have mentioned. Kind of strange that many people killers do not admit it.
I am also a Player vs Playerless gamer and I admit the drone exploit in high sec is lame especially when it is used to grief freighters. I wish CCP would do something about it.
CCP could also give freighters some defensive slots.
You know what, every time you refer to players who participate in PVP as people killers you insult most of the players in EVE and make yourself look ignorant. It's offensive, and if it continues I think I'm going to have to send a note to the moderators.
It's a game, get some perspective.
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Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
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Posted - 2007.05.02 14:22:00 -
[307]
Edited by: Johnny ReeRee on 02/05/2007 14:18:04
Originally by: Laboratus There is something that seems to be forgotten in this thread.
Freighters are an essential part of any corporations/alliances logistical backbone. Freighters as targets provide meaningful goals for corporation/alliance warfare. As such they are an essential part of eve pvp. The fact that some ppl jump corp for a newbie corp, an exploit by the way, to avoid the hazards of a war dec, does not mean that ppl taking down said freighters is "ganking" or "griefing". They are legitimate targets, and quite good targets as such.
And. Empire is not supposed to be safe. It is more secure, but still, rather than limitations, it has penalties assosiated with criminal activities...
Those "penalties" at this point mean almost bupkis. There should be NO INSURANCE PAYMENTS FOR SHIPS DESTROYED BY CONCORD.
Gank away -- but you shouldn't get subsidized to do it.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.05.02 14:30:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Johnny ReeRee
Those "penalties" at this point mean almost bupkis. There should be NO INSURANCE PAYMENTS FOR SHIPS DESTROYED BY CONCORD.
Gank away -- but you shouldn't get subsidized to do it.
You lose insurance+ modules. That is a lot. I personally find the fact that you do get some sort of generic insurance pretty dumb, specially considering you get it even without never paying for it. And any insurance company that sees that for some clients insurance contract never expire, but that they always have to pay up a sum somewhere along the lines of triple the amount they got seems pretty dumb. Also, it makes no sense whatsoever that the freighter pilots get insurance unescorted and possibly under war dec. I mean what kind of insurance company pays insurances for propery damage from acts of war, force majore, or high risk situations. Not one that would be long in business, I say... All in all, would you please try to say why you feel that way, instead of just shouting so. Not very convincing for an argument... Dynamic insurance would be cool, even though it would ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Dickncider
Minmatar Barge Insurance Company Relief
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Posted - 2007.05.02 14:52:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Velsharoon Escorts them
Wow over 10 pages whining and the very first reply was the correct one.
CCP does NOT have to redesign or modify anything in the current game mechanics. CCP already has done an excellent job of creating everything you would need to protect yourself in high sec.
For those of you, who have no idea how to protect your freighter within high sec, slap yourself for being stupid and you deserve to loose your ship for not thinking outside the box. High Sec is Safer, but not safe! |
Nifel
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:31:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
4) Financial loss of ganking group isless than financial loss of Freighter + Cargo
Not necessarily true, but given the fact that:
5) Most freighter pilots are unwilling to adapt to changing circumstances
it becomes very true as well.
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
Since the 0.5+ systems are supposed to be safer there is controll mechanism (CONCORD) which doesn't work very well in case of ganking. If ship is destroyed in 0.5+ space without any aggression on its side (as it is with Freighters) insurance should cover it and send bill to CONCORD ;) But seriously, it should be not profitable for suicide gankers, or at least not in each attack.
It should be profitable for organized suicide gankers. It won't be profitable if they come up against organized freighter pilots.
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka
So there are few ways of doing it: 1) Make Freighters slightly more difficult to destroy.
Why? Up the ceiling? Make it cost 900 million instead of 600 million to destroy you, or make you completely invulnerable?
cont...
To me it seems that the reward-isk balance is out of whack. Lots of isk for no risk. Oh and... down with insurance ^^.
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama |
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Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:43:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Nifel
To me it seems that the reward-isk balance is out of whack. Lots of isk for no risk. Oh and... down with insurance ^^.
Risk vs Reward is pretty messed up when unescorted haulers get shot in low- or nul sec too. Key word is unescorted.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.05.02 18:39:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Ranger 1 You know what, every time you refer to players who participate in PVP as people killers you insult most of the players in EVE and make yourself look ignorant. It's offensive, and if it continues I think I'm going to have to send a note to the moderators.
It's a game, get some perspective.
That is irrelevant in this thread. If you are talking about politically correct terminologies, please start a new thread. The comments from various members of the community are interesting because there is a problem with high sec freighter ganking. It is not right and is a broken game mechanics.
I have seen MMOs for more a decade and the term people killers or player killers does fit the context. Might be I am so used to the terminology. If a player kills a human player, the player is a player killer. If the player kills a non-human player, the player is a non-player killer.
If I kill a player's ship. I am a player killer. If I kill a player's pod. I am also a player killer. If you kill somebody, you are a killer.
I do not see anything wrong with my perspective. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.02 18:48:00 -
[313]
Edited by: Ki An on 02/05/2007 18:44:47
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
That is irrelevant in this thread. If you are talking about politically correct terminologies, please start a new thread. The comments from various members of the community are interesting because there is a problem with high sec freighter ganking. It is not right and is a broken game mechanics.
It seems like you are desperate for there to be a problem and are trying very hard to convince yourself and others that there is. However, there doesn't actually seem to be any rampant ganking of freighters going on. So far I've heard of two instances after the patch, and both were unsuccessful.
You also completely disregard the fact that YOU can make sure there will never be a problem for you. However, you'de rather have CCP do something so you don't have to, because you are lazy. Believe me, you are not the first to cry for changes in the game to make things easier for you. In this case, however, you are wrong, and should be flamed indiscriminally.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I have seen MMOs for more a decade and the term people killers or player killers does fit the context. Might be I am so used to the terminology. If a player kills a human player, the player is a player killer. If the player kills a non-human player, the player is a non-player killer.
First, I don't believe you are older than 12 at the most, so I think you are lying. Second, player killer I've heard before, and while suitable in other MMO's, it don't really apply in EvE, as PvP is such a major part. People killer is something you made up yourself to make some sort of skewed point about PvPers all being psychopat killers IRL.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I do not see anything wrong with my perspective.
That's because you are blinded by your own self importance.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.05.02 18:52:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Ki An
It seems like you are desperate for there to be a problem and are trying very hard to convince yourself and others that there is. However, there doesn't actually seem to be any rampant ganking of freighters going on. So far I've heard of two instances after the patch, and both were unsuccessful.
Freighters have problem. Full stop. If it doesn't, why the discussion is over 12 pages long?
Oh I know. Freighters have no problem because some griefers say so. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.02 18:56:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Freighters have problem. Full stop. If it doesn't, why the discussion is over 12 pages long?
Oh I know. Freighters have no problem because some griefers say so.
You keep proving my point about your age every post you make.
The reason the thread is 12 pages long is because some people can't seem to understand that their petty concerns are irrelevant in the big picture. YOU have a problem with freighters because you play solo and expect to be safe in high sec. Too bad, you won't. That doesn't mean there is a problem with game mechanics. That just mean YOU have a problem.
Either you deal with the problem and stfu, or you find another game. As simple as that.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.02 19:32:00 -
[316]
Years ago, longer than some of EvE's players have been alive and definitely longer than most WoW players I logged onto my first mud.
I had no idea what I was doing, I thought the players would fight each other. I found some guy and typed "kill whatshisname", yes chillren we had to type our commands and we LIKED it. I got a message 'You need to MURDER another player'. So I type MURDER whatshisname, and I get a message 'This feature has been disabled by the administrator.'
Why the hell do people want to do this to EvE?
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Driven
Caldari Mass Produced Venturi Starea
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Posted - 2007.05.02 19:37:00 -
[317]
Originally by: RtoZ
To CCP: start thinking about the broader implications of what you do, allowing freighters to drop loot was a phenomenally bad decision, given the ship's more or less unique charectaristics. Most of the logistics in eve is done by solo players, hauler corps or alts, and these simply do not have the resources to support their opps. However , if the idea is to slow eve gameplay, well, this will bring it to a crawl, as people have to go back to pre freighter logistics and start fitting cargo expanders on battleships.
Well said. Very well said. Especially with no slots and no rigs. From unbalanced immunity to unbalanced vulnerability, the pendulum has swung too far with this hamfisted move.
I guess its back to the nanoed shield-tanked battleship if you want to move anything of any value. As to how to move large volume high value stuff.........
Part of the evil Tech 2 BPO cartel |
Esiel
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.02 19:39:00 -
[318]
As I was reading other stuff a simple solution came to me. This would probably solve most of the problems. Set the basic insurance for a freighter to be gold level insurance. This means if a person looses a freighter the payout is fairly close to the cost of buying a new one.
This will allow the gankers to gank and allow the haulers to be able to recover if they loose a freighter. (They still lost thier cargo but they can buy a new freighter and continue)
In the end there can be only one. |
Lord Dynastron
Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 22:11:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Freighters have problem. Full stop. If it doesn't, why the discussion is over 12 pages long?
Oh I know. Freighters have no problem because some griefers say so.
You keep proving my point about your age every post you make.
The reason the thread is 12 pages long is because some people can't seem to understand that their petty concerns are irrelevant in the big picture. YOU have a problem with freighters because you play solo and expect to be safe in high sec. Too bad, you won't. That doesn't mean there is a problem with game mechanics. That just mean YOU have a problem.
Either you deal with the problem and stfu, or you find another game. As simple as that.
/Ki
"That just mean YOU have a problem."
Him and every other Freighter pilot out there.
All your arguments were made by one person or another regarding Privateers as well (and m0o and Nanos and...). You do know how that turned out right? Based on how that turned out, why do you think this is any different? Anything that hurts Eve overall is bad for Eve and will be changed. Precident is something you would be wise to acknowledge.
Sooo... the real question is... is popping freighters in the manner being discussed bad for Eve? First you have to define what is bad for Eve. Hint: loosing subscription in droves is bad for Eve.
Now,, you did make one good point. Freighter do not seem to be getting popped willy-nilly. So long as this remains the case... there is no problem. Nothing needs fixing if 2 or 3 a week get popped. However,, as history has taught us (ignoring history = really stupid),, once something gets out of hand and becomes bad for Eve......
Big pictures are somtimes hard to see... until you step back a bit.
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.05.02 22:26:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Lord Dynastron
Now,, you did make one good point. Freighter do not seem to be getting popped willy-nilly. So long as this remains the case... there is no problem. Nothing needs fixing if 2 or 3 a week get popped. However,, as history has taught us (ignoring history = really stupid),, once something gets out of hand and becomes bad for Eve......
If it actually becomes a problem, and common, then I agree a change will have to be made. But in all the threads on this topic only one person even claims that it was ATTEMPTED on them, and unsuccessful I might add, in a .5 system where Concord responses are slowest.
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Beffanie
Pink Power Ponies
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Posted - 2007.05.02 22:33:00 -
[321]
Originally by: ****ncider
Originally by: Velsharoon Escorts them
Wow over 10 pages whining and the very first reply was the correct one.
CCP does NOT have to redesign or modify anything in the current game mechanics. CCP already has done an excellent job of creating everything you would need to protect yourself in high sec.
For those of you, who have no idea how to protect your freighter within high sec, slap yourself for being stupid and you deserve to loose your ship for not thinking outside the box.
hehe, I guess you missed the pages that *almost* explained how to gank a freighter regardless of escorts.
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Aypse
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.02 22:33:00 -
[322]
There is no freighter griefing problem. The only problem is with people who use to be totally immune having difficulty with their new-found vulnerability.
BTW- Learn the difference between ganking, griefing, and pvping.
Originally by: Oveur
Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:08:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Beffanie hehe, I guess you missed the pages that *almost* explained how to gank a freighter regardless of escorts.
If you are refferring to using lots of domis with heavy drones - which in the end really is the only way to kill freighters in highsec since concord jamms you quick - all you need is one BS with a full rack of large smartbombs as escort.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:35:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Beffanie hehe, I guess you missed the pages that *almost* explained how to gank a freighter regardless of escorts.
If you are refferring to using lots of domis with heavy drones - which in the end really is the only way to kill freighters in highsec since concord jamms you quick - all you need is one BS with a full rack of large smartbombs as escort.
While the SBs would probably work there is a very good chance the guarding battleship will hit innocent bystanders (such as the bumpers trying to keep the freighter from warping) and will get CONCORDED himself. Add that the SBs may well pod those people so the guard will take a nasty sec hit.
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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:44:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Beffanie hehe, I guess you missed the pages that *almost* explained how to gank a freighter regardless of escorts.
If you are refferring to using lots of domis with heavy drones - which in the end really is the only way to kill freighters in highsec since concord jamms you quick - all you need is one BS with a full rack of large smartbombs as escort.
While the SBs would probably work there is a very good chance the guarding battleship will hit innocent bystanders (such as the bumpers trying to keep the freighter from warping) and will get CONCORDED himself. Add that the SBs may well pod those people so the guard will take a nasty sec hit.
ECM burst, once the domis are jammed 1 blackbird with ecm bursts can break locks on most of the drones, and the drones will only reagro on the blackbird, since the ft has no offensive modules.
Repping battleships work as well.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:53:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Beffanie hehe, I guess you missed the pages that *almost* explained how to gank a freighter regardless of escorts.
If you are refferring to using lots of domis with heavy drones - which in the end really is the only way to kill freighters in highsec since concord jamms you quick - all you need is one BS with a full rack of large smartbombs as escort.
While the SBs would probably work there is a very good chance the guarding battleship will hit innocent bystanders (such as the bumpers trying to keep the freighter from warping) and will get CONCORDED himself. Add that the SBs may well pod those people so the guard will take a nasty sec hit.
ECM burst, once the domis are jammed 1 blackbird with ecm bursts can break locks on most of the drones, and the drones will only reagro on the blackbird, since the ft has no offensive modules.
Repping battleships work as well.
You can only have one ECM burst active now with a recent patch (or so I was led to understand...haven't tried myself) so unsure how effective that might be. ECM burst will also get the BB CONCORDED probably but not such a big loss. Pilot will also probably take a sec hit but not as badly as an SBing battleship that pods people.
Remote repping seems it may work if you can drag 5+ mates along who have all remote reps fitted in hi. As has been discussed that is a lot to ask for to follow your freighter around constantly. Certainly worth it for a massively valuable cargo but every time the thing moves?
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.05.03 00:37:00 -
[327]
I agree with Dark Shikari, the problem is not that freighters can and do get attacked, the problem is that they have no means of preventing this from happening. All games are about balance, if everyone flew around EVE with a one-hit kill button, things would be horribly boring.
High security space is suppose to be where one leans away from profits and towards safety, in terms of the overall sliding scale. Maybe if concord fined the would-be pirates 50% of the victim ships base cost for "wreckage clean-up" in 0.6< space, it would deter (though not stop) many of these situations.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:25:00 -
[328]
wow you guys that keep saying freighters cant prevent a gank have real issues reading
but yes id agree that having to escort every freighter mission that is even slightly profitable to run is a bit on the
too much side ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:38:00 -
[329]
Edited by: Siege on 03/05/2007 01:38:18
Originally by: Derovius Vaden I agree with Dark Shikari, the problem is not that freighters can and do get attacked, the problem is that they have no means of preventing this from happening. All games are about balance, if everyone flew around EVE with a one-hit kill button, things would be horribly boring.
High security space is suppose to be where one leans away from profits and towards safety, in terms of the overall sliding scale. Maybe if concord fined the would-be pirates 50% of the victim ships base cost for "wreckage clean-up" in 0.6< space, it would deter (though not stop) many of these situations.
They have 120,000 structure, and Concord, to protect them.
I mean, seriously, have any of you folks crying doom and gloom ever tried to actually take down a freighter? Even with no concord interference they take an obscene amount of time and effort to destroy. Only other capital ships can routinely expect to survive combat as well as a freighter, and those are all banned from empire space except for a couple specific exemptions that have heavy restrictions.
You need to arrange about two DOZEN players, or more, all with good drone skills, with pretty strong tanks to accomplish this. All of these players WILL loose their ships and take a decent security hit to do it, preventing them from doing it more than once every few days at the utter maximum if they dedicate every minute they play Eve toward this single task. PLUS they need another freighter to loot everything, that they will most likely be unable to defend because all their major combat ships were just blown up.
This is NOT an issue right now, and most likely it wont ever BE an issue except for a few isolated incidents. If for some reason it does start happening constantly, then yeah make some changes. Personally I think some increases to structural resistances would be the best compromise. Maybe 15% across the board would be good, it will give a good increase to your survivability without creating a more serious exploit. And I also think that remote structural repair would be a good idea to put in the game now, since that will help the pilots of those big tubs without causing any problems that I can see as long as they are kept in line with currently structure repair mods.
But it would be really easy to cause some serious balance issues if you start adding slots to something with that much cargo and structure. Smart Bombs and Burst ECM are utter stupdity in empire space, as concord will kill you. No high slots will save you in those situations, not a chance. One low slot gives you 50% resists across the board, which is just absurd with that much structure. Just a single mid slot creates a near unlimited capacitor to nos off of with an injector and a cargohold full of cap800 charges.
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Kon Sue
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:42:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Larshus Magrus I fly a freighter. I'm a pvper. I'm not in a NPC corp. I primarily use my freighter to aquire minst o build myself ships, and to move my ships around in empire so that I have they scattered at 0.0 entrance points where I need em. I don't afk my freighter cause I want it to get where its going asap so I can get back to the "fun" of the game.
Right now its trivial to gank a freighter with 25 domis. Its NOT trivial to defend a freighter. Come on, the scout thing doesn't work. If you have the ability to get 25 people in domis you sure as hell have the discipline to align and warp.
What will I do? Stop flying my freighter around. Simple. No biggie. What will others do? The same thing.
Lets think of the consequences. Freighters are often times used to move large amounts of low ends out towards 0.0 so stuff can be built. Guess what happens when you can't move low ends or mid ends around. Prioces of ships go up because you can't gather it all at one place "safely". If You think a ship builder is going to use an industrial to cart around trit you are wrong.. wont take the time or effort to do it for the low profit.
ITs the same risk/reward thing. Wont take the risk unless there is a much highter reward. Margin on bs's is perhaps, at best, 5% now. Margin is going to go WAY up. Cost of goods to make is going to go way up. PRoducers will still produce just charge more, or it wont be worth it to produce and they will do something else.
End of day, what will happen is stuff will cost alot more. Do I care? Not really. I'll just jack the price on my stuff that I do sell and don't personally use. If it sells, great, if not I wont sell it. I'm not going to lose money thats for sure.
I'm chuckling cause the people that are doing this are just going to end up paying more for supplies later on. ITs a self balancing game and if the risk/reward ratio isn't there, it WILL balance itself out by causing the price of goods to rise till the ratio is correct.
This man speaks the truth.
I am no longer offering freighter service.
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