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Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.30 05:17:00 - [121] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 30/04/2007 05:23:34 Edited by: Venkul Mul on 30/04/2007 05:22:43 Originally by: Gamesguy Btw, a scorpion with 8 ECM bursts in mids will gurantee to make that suicide gank fail as every domi gets jammed by concord and their drones lose lock every second for every 8 seconds. The scorp will probably be concorded for ECM bursting neutrals, but the sec penalty wont be that huge for mere aggression(and the tiny range on ecm bursts). Yo don't read the patch notes? You can't use more than 1 ECM burst at a time. relevant patch notes
WarMongeer	Posted - 2007.04.30 05:59:00 - [122] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Okay, CCP patched up freighters and they dropped loot. Because of the new patch, freighters are now targets of high-sec griefing. CCP, why don't you give us medium and low slots in our freighters please? Freighters drop loot so they must be able to fit some modules to prevent high-sec griefings. ^^^What she said. Even one freakin lowslot ffs would be great. Why have freighters that have all the traits of other ships in the game, except the ability for even mediocre defense?
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.04.30 07:43:00 - [123] Hmmm. Since it seems like the most arguments against giving freighters fitting slots are the ability to make them haul more, how about something like this change to freighters: A freighter gets 0/0/3 slots, and an amount of PG/CPU, maybe 10/100 or whatever. Each slot used(!) reduces the freighters remaining cargo space to 1/2. I.e. 0 slot used: Freighter has full cargo space 1 slot used: Freighter has 1/2 cargo space 2 slot used: Freighter has 1/4 cargo space 3 slot used: Freighter has 1/8 cargo space This'll mean that the slots can not be used for increasing cargo space, but if you sacrifice cargo space, you can tank your freighter.
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.30 08:05:00 - [124] Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 30/04/2007 08:01:34 Originally by: Kerfira Hmmm. Since it seems like the most arguments against giving freighters fitting slots are the ability to make them haul more, how about something like this change to freighters: A freighter gets 0/0/3 slots, and an amount of PG/CPU, maybe 10/100 or whatever. Each slot used(!) reduces the freighters remaining cargo space to 1/2. I.e. 0 slot used: Freighter has full cargo space 1 slot used: Freighter has 1/2 cargo space 2 slot used: Freighter has 1/4 cargo space 3 slot used: Freighter has 1/8 cargo space This'll mean that the slots can not be used for increasing cargo space, but if you sacrifice cargo space, you can tank your freighter. So, you think an alliance/corp that bothers to bring themselves 20+ domis, and spend a few days gathering intel on whos a freighter alt, what route he takes etc. and having their own freighter for looting ready, will not be able to just bring 30 or 40 domis and gank it with a tank? Tbh, escorting with remote reps was already shown that it works with 5 BS or so, scouting works, since if they are off-scan range, which is 14 AU or so, means they will not make it to the gate before you are jumped and warped webbed on the other side. Add to that the fact that a normal trader who is using his freighter will not run into 20 Domi+ suicide ganks. So far freighters of alliances have been ganked by alliances they are at war with, thats a big difference. I doubt a lot of the suicide gankers risk what 400mil in popping it and then getting a stack of pyer blown up with the freighter and not dropping.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.04.30 08:22:00 - [125] Notes from this thread: There are no remote hull reps: A serious problem for damaged freighters. Logistics BS or logistics ships can keep freighters alive. But have cap problems. ECM bursts would be a valid option to braking target lock on drones, but only one can be active on any said ship since a recent patch. Good scouts help avoid said camps. (and lots of trolling/flaming) That about it? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.04.30 09:57:00 - [126] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 29/04/2007 13:01:52 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Okay, CCP patched up freighters and they dropped loot. Because of the new patch, freighters are now targets of high-sec griefing. CCP, why don't you give us medium and low slots in our freighters please? Freighters drop loot so they must be able to fit some modules to prevent high-sec griefings. How is it "griefing" if a ship gets attacked for loot? That sounds more like "playing EVE". One group kills for loot because they think there is loot. One group kills for fun because they can. One group kills because the hate the freighter pilot. Two groups are griefers and one group is not. Majority wins. Ganking freighters in high-sec is griefing. Freighters need medium and low slots badly. Give the little lamb a chance until Concord arrives to help it. When you gank a freighter, the pilot stands a chance to lose billions. Gankers only lose less than 100M. Griefers pew pew. Freighter pilots have to enjoy receiving pew pew. Your logic is terrible. In fact you just use "griefing" as a synonym for PvP combat.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:09:00 - [127] Originally by: Chewan Mesa Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... So, you think an alliance/corp that bothers to bring themselves 20+ domis, and spend a few days gathering intel on whos a freighter alt, what route he takes etc. and having their own freighter for looting ready, will not be able to just bring 30 or 40 domis and gank it with a tank? Of.c. they can, but it'll be more hazzle, and it'll be more expensive. Freighter ganking atm is too cheap. It cost less to suicide a freighter than the cost of the freighter! I seriously doubt this is the intended punishment for high-sec aggression, i.e. that the victim looses more than the aggressor even when not counting the cargo.... Also, don't forget, we ARE talking about high-sec space here. This area is SUPPOSED to be relatively safe, but because of a flaw in CONCORD functionality isn't. CONCORD target jams aggressors, but doesn't target jam aggressing drones, which is what makes the Domi suicide gank feasible. That CONCORD does target jam as soon as they arrive indicates to me that the functionality CCP intends is that you can shoot at people until CONCORD arrives, then it stops, but that they forgot about drones when implementing it. Originally by: Chewan Mesa Tbh, escorting with remote reps was already shown that it works with 5 BS or so, scouting works, since if they are off-scan range, which is 14 AU or so, means they will not make it to the gate before you are jumped and warped webbed on the other side. Please explain how you web a freighter in a noob corp without getting blown up? If the freighter is not in a noob corp, suicide ganks are not needed as you can just wardec... Originally by: Chewan Mesa Add to that the fact that a normal trader who is using his freighter will not run into 20 Domi+ suicide ganks. So far freighters of alliances have been ganked by alliances they are at war with, thats a big difference. I doubt a lot of the suicide gankers risk what 400mil in popping it and then getting a stack of pyer blown up with the freighter and not dropping. It was also thought that nobody would ever abuse the wardec system to turn high-sec into a free-for-all, but it happened anyway.... With the amount of freighters passing into or out of Jita every day, it's only a matter of time before some enterprising corp starts making a business from it.....
sorilin Amarr Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:19:00 - [128] only way is to nerf insurance.. ccp.. insurance while in war ?? wtf... i meen if your killed by a wartarget ummmm njaaa its silly... the n000b corp freighters i also wanna kill.. so keep it going.. keep killing n00b corpers.. a freighter pilot in an00b corp isent new anymore.. ffs people be proud of the colors you wear ffs.. I am the borg!
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:30:00 - [129] Ok, it seems now that the real problem has come forward. People want to be safe while in noob corps. Well, I guess this is one instance where being in a corp pays off. If you want your freighters to be safe in any space, join a player corp and escort it properly. No change of game mechanics needed. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
w0rmy Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:37:00 - [130] Originally by: Laboratus Logistics BS or logistics ships can keep freighters alive. But have cap problems. You can run 6 shield transfer non stop in a baselisk You can run 4 remote armour reps non stop in a scimitar or Oneiros Dont fly amarr so dont know bout that one. Exactly what cap problems do logistic ships have? Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg

Qolde Minmatar Guardian Heroes Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:41:00 - [131] Give freighters some launcher slots and a HUGE bonus to light missile refire rate and explosion velocity damage so they can fit FOF missiles and kill the drones. It would only work if they are at the keyboard, and it wouldn't completely kill suicide ganks. Never get popped again!
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:46:00 - [132] Escorts would work if CCP introduced a new shield skill and shield Module - Shield projector, high slot You target your ally, lock, click this module, and voila. Your shield is now theirs, resistances and all. if you really need to move something vaulable now, Get 5 friends in highly passive tanked out Projectors, with basic weapons, gang up, move out, scout, and watch yourself. (Hey, it IS an interesting idea, imagine the tactical shift a simple module like THAT could make. Another one bites the dust.
Natalia Fachiri Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:30:00 - [133] If they are to be given low slot,s half their base carrying capacity. Problem of too big freighters solved.
Ilea Celentay Veiled Justice	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:51:00 - [134] Main problem I see with all this "bring an escort" is inescence there is few ways an escort can be effective. Like someone else mentioned, Lag of 20+ Doms, eash spewing out 5 drones, plus CONCORD trying to save the day means the defenders are going to find it hard to do anything. There needs to be a way in Eve to make some ships invulnerable until its defenders are defeated, like someone mentioned, some kinda shield lock that means the defenders shields are linked to the victim... but ye. Faction Ship Info \|\| Rig Factory
hairy minky	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:57:00 - [135] Edited by: hairy minky on 30/04/2007 11:53:56 So who do I talk to about ganking a freighter pilot who I have a score to settle with. I know he carries a lot of loot i.e 3-5 bil at any time :) I'll pay the domi bill. Eve mail me for details... you guys keep the loot. it's in a 0.5 system as well.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:58:00 - [136] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/04/2007 11:56:39 I dont think slots are the answer to freightors. Slots are a means to an end - and the objective is to keep the freightor alive. Slots wont keep a solo freightor pilot alive - It will just mean that you get a bigger suicide gang. The real issue is that freightor pilots used to be the secure afk or semi-afk method of travel. Now that is no longer the case. Just make sure that you have a corpmate that can web you to instawarp and you are gank immune pretty much. Have another corpmate 1 jump ahead to see if there is a large dominix/arbritrator/vexor camp in the jump in gate and you can then dock up insted of proceeding further. And before someone says "omg you dont fly freight0rz", I used to fly my personally owned freightor though Hed-gp, down through impass all the way to bottom end of the universe, back when I used to run the Giant Can Monopoly in Paragon Soul. I know how to move these things safely, and the lesson to learn is that you should adapt your tactics to suit changes in eve game mechanics. Nothing is 100% safe, but you can change your tactics to make it 99% safe. -- Billion Isk Mission
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:59:00 - [137] Originally by: Ilea Celentay Main problem I see with all this "bring an escort" is inescence there is few ways an escort can be effective. Like someone else mentioned, Lag of 20+ Doms, eash spewing out 5 drones, plus CONCORD trying to save the day means the defenders are going to find it hard to do anything. There needs to be a way in Eve to make some ships invulnerable until its defenders are defeated, like someone mentioned, some kinda shield lock that means the defenders shields are linked to the victim... but ye. Collision detection for shots fired would solve so many problems in this game. Even though it would lag us out even worse than today. You could no longer outblob ppl, since you would just end up shooting your own mates, ppl would have to move in squads/wings to avoid friendly fire etc etc... In this example, the drones would waste firepower on other drones, ships could just physically move between the target and the shootert to intercept fire and concord would respond to their own friendly fire when they blob up like they do in the vids:) ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:03:00 - [138] Reduce Freighter base cargo space by about 30% Then give them 2 mids 2 lows and 2 rig slots. That gives the poor freighter pilot some options for his defense at the cost of cargo space. Fair's fair, no ?
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:13:00 - [139] My comments on the freighter debacle: What goes around comes around. If people start suicide ganking freighters en masse, as I predict will happen from now on, the repercussions on the EVE economy will be huge. It will stop the flow of goods in high sec, break the production backbone and single handedly turn eve's deflationary trend on its head. And then, the pew pew'ers, allready notoriously poor as a player class will become even poorer. Think eve is hard now? Wait till the markets start drying up due to the high risk in HIGH BLOODY SECURITY logistics. I'm sitting this one out just to confirm if the above hunch is correct, untill I do my Charon is mothballed. To CCP: start thinking about the broader implications of what you do, allowing freighters to drop loot was a phenomenally bad decision, given the ship's more or less unique charectaristics. Most of the logistics in eve is done by solo players, hauler corps or alts, and these simply do not have the resources to support their opps. However , if the idea is to slow eve gameplay, well, this will bring it to a crawl, as people have to go back to pre freighter logistics and start fitting cargo expanders on battleships.
Vance Black Caldari ORIGIN SYSTEMS	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:18:00 - [140] Only problem with nerfing freighter cargo space, is the need for them to carry, as intended capital ship assembler arrays, and outpost platforms. Pray tell how people are supposed to haul those if freighters get nerfed? --------------------------------- Your clone is mine

Kamikazi ONE Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:18:00 - [141] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What harm could 0/3/3 hi/med/low do? Simple: capital ships in empire. Freighter + cargo expanders = enough cargo space to fit repackaged capital ships. Give freighters slots and you might as well just allow cynos in empire and skip the whole middle step. Unless of course you'd be willing to accept a significant cargo space nerf to get your slots? 50% reduction in cargo space for freightersm or whatever the actual number is that would give you the same space if you fitted cargo expanders into the lows. People could then choose to nerf their cargo and get some protection or go for max cargo.
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:50:00 - [142] Originally by: Namingway Jenny, didn't you get your vaga BPO by suicide ganking someone in highsec? No, Jenny Spitfire never had a vagabond bpo - little known secret I sold her some gila BPCs a few weeks before she left and I asked her if she could make me one cheap. She said not to tell anyone (but since she's left...) but she never had a BPO. After that I watched her posts very clearly. She never actually states "I have a vagabond bpo". She always defended tech 2 BPO owners, but she never stated that she had one. People assumed and the replies were always "well it's ok for you to say that, because you have a vaga bpo" (or along those lines). She did nothing to deny it, but she never actually stated it either. whoever this character that controls the Jenny Spitfire character, they've ruined it. I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot. Nice Isk. I'll take it.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:56:00 - [143] Originally by: Max Hardcase Reduce Freighter base cargo space by about 30% Then give them 2 mids 2 lows and 2 rig slots. That gives the poor freighter pilot some options for his defense at the cost of cargo space. Fair's fair, no ? I dont think it would make any difference. All that will happen is that gankers will bring a extra couple of BS's, thus removing any benifit of slots. -- Billion Isk Mission
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.30 13:03:00 - [144] Originally by: w0rmy You can run 4 remote armour reps non stop in a scimitar or Oneiros Dont fly amarr so dont know bout that one. Remote armor reps on a scimitar sounds weird. Mine has lower cap consumption with shield transporters ( ... and a tracking link efficiency bonus, if I remember it right.) It's able to run 3 large shield transporter and one medium non-stop. ___________ Muuuhhh !!!
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.30 13:26:00 - [145] If 60 red battleships hugging a gate on a pipe doesnt set off alarm bells... go back to wow. The problem isnt griefing or freighters being weak.. its people being stupid/afk. Insure the freighter. Dont fill it with enough ** to make it worth attacking (thats what we call, risk/reward.) Stop whining, thankyou. Originally by:** Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
Flex Nebura	Posted - 2007.04.30 13:44:00 - [146] So you ask for tanking slots on a freighter.. cool.. there should be a way to hold out while Concord clears up the trash.. OH!! and there is and you dont even need to put med/low slots on the freighter.. People said: Use escorts. And they are right. While you might think an escort is something that shoots at the attackers, it doesnt have to be.. With the amount of money being made on a freighter run its possible split the profit more than one way.. Anyways.. bring a couple of logistic ships or battleships and shield X-fer and remote rep the freighter.. should make it last long enough under the barrage of drones. Could be that the attackers just bring a few more ships dedicated to take out the escort.. but I would think they would need atleast 2 or 3 ships per escort.. That should even it out nicely.. Its good to hear about freighters geting popped.. was too easy for those with billions already to make more by afk traveling through high-sec. Its especially heartwarming when the frieghter pilot is in a npc corp. Those attacking freighters are working together.. those flying freighters should be working together with someone too.. Eve is an MMO not a single player game. If you haul such expensive things, its better to share some of your wealth with a few guard dogs, than to lose it all to the wolves.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.04.30 13:59:00 - [147] Originally by: Ralara Originally by: Namingway Jenny, didn't you get your vaga BPO by suicide ganking someone in highsec? No, Jenny Spitfire never had a vagabond bpo - little known secret I sold her some gila BPCs a few weeks before she left and I asked her if she could make me one cheap. She said not to tell anyone (but since she's left...) but she never had a BPO. After that I watched her posts very clearly. She never actually states "I have a vagabond bpo". She always defended tech 2 BPO owners, but she never stated that she had one. People assumed and the replies were always "well it's ok for you to say that, because you have a vaga bpo" (or along those lines). She did nothing to deny it, but she never actually stated it either. whoever this character that controls the Jenny Spitfire character, they've ruined it. She stated it quite a few times actually. With the first post on the subject from her being: 'I now have a Vagabond BPO' (not an exact quote)
Sarah Aubry Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.04.30 14:04:00 - [148] Has anyone considered giving concord logistics ships? enough that you would need 100 BS to kill a freighter or some such? I would also like to see much nicer shortcuts through low sec, eg Jita to Oursulaert i think is 3 jumps longer to go high sec? it should be like 50% or more faster to go through low sec tbh, risk vs reward. If its 30 jumps high sec make it 7-10 low sec and watch the pirates swarm to low sec instead of swarming to jita....
Kesh McCall Caldari Malkalen Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.30 14:04:00 - [149] Originally by: Laboratus Notes from this thread: There are no remote hull reps: A serious problem for damaged freighters. Logistics BS or logistics ships can keep freighters alive. But have cap problems. ECM bursts would be a valid option to braking target lock on drones, but only one can be active on any said ship since a recent patch. Good scouts help avoid said camps. (and lots of trolling/flaming) That about it? >That sums it up perfectly
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.30 15:24:00 - [150] two things that actually need to be done one is by CCP - change mass and bump mechanics so a small newb ship cant make the freighter get out of alignment - thats like an anchovy swimming into a whale and making it change direction one is by the players -have a freighter ready where the load needs to be picked up a day or two early - that way anyone looking for juicy freighters will only have time to get you on your way out - and with the proposed FIX of bumps would allow you to warp out (when webbed) quickly.



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