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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Areo Hotah
LiveTech
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:33:00 -
[31]
Low-slots give the ability of cargo expanders and thus massive cargo space. In fact, repackaged capitals can then fit in a freighter.
Areo
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Badhands
Gallente
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:48:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Badhands on 29/04/2007 16:44:21
Please god don't let freighters have low slots. Freighters are SUPPOSED to be big, fat and slow. If you want low and mid slots, fly an iteron V.
Edit - typo fixed.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:03:00 -
[33]
What harm could 0/3/3 hi/med/low do?
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Nicholai Pestot
Gallente
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:08:00 -
[34]
My frigate is fast, nimble and has slots.
Can you give it freighter sized cargo space? What harm would it do?
It requires a LARGE number of BS to suicide a frieghter. If you are carrying enough equipment to make that worth while, if you have annoyed people with the clout to put that together, if you have any brains at all use a scout.
This is eve.This is grief. Like it or quit Mr. I bought this account off ebay Jenny.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Trox Aeze
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:14:00 -
[35]
Drone boats makes killing a Freighter profitable.
Even after ship destruction, the drones will keep on attacking.
My Freighter is frequently scannet for content.
Now that we're a target, we need slots for fittings.
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Jayson Lee
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:15:00 -
[36]
Would it take too much coding to allow low slots but not allow the cargo to expand more only for freighters?
It was mentioned earlier, removing insurance payouts for ships that engage in illegal activities would solve most of the problems, and balance out the risk vs reward.
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Anson Halleck
Lost Eden
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:23:00 -
[37]
Removing insurance for criminals is good idea and should have been implemented long time ago. But with freighters it isn't enough. 25 Domis are like 2B? Freighter without cargo costs 1B, cargo is often worth 10x more. Scouts doesn't work as long as attackers aren't completly dumb, so there is no defense.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:27:00 -
[38]
 Originally by: Pan Crastus
There is one very simple solution for this and it has been proposed again and again in the past few years:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Remove the frickin' insurance payouts for losses to CONCORD.
It's extremely stupid to be able to suicide gank people in >=0.5 and get more insurance payout than the ship + fittings cost you.
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MissileRus
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:40:00 -
[39]
solution: gief more penalties and it wont be worth it to do it for profit
but it should be able to be done, theres no safe space right?..
it just wont be profitable to suicide on freighters if they up the penalties,
and since there can be quite a value in freighters the penalties would have to be upped by quiet alot.. 
modules aint an answer they will just bring more battleships right? penalty is the way to go IMO or remove the freighter loot thing if it becomes to big of a problem with freighter griefing in high-sec.. 
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4. i like pizza |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Velsharoon
Escorts them
Please explain how?
You can put all the escort on the freighter that you want, but the only way you can prevent a suicide gank group killing your freighter, is by suiciding your own ships on them. Since you'll have to suicide quite a few BS to kill ONE of the attacking BS, it is not feasible....
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:57:00 -
[41]
Heh, calling pvp griefing is harrasment. I demand your accounts! I demand blood!
Now enough with this carebearish word games.
I dont know about you, but before the loot changes, i regularly put billions of goods into a freighter, set autopilot and went away for hours. On several accounts. So i agree with you, i want my (other) afk no effort ISK printing machine back as well. I wont mind a vagabond BPO either.
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Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:06:00 -
[42]
The only problem here is receiving insurance payouts when defying Concord.
Remove that, and things make more sense. Freighters can still be targetted, but have a more realistic effort:reward ratio.
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If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
dabster
Minmatar
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:14:00 -
[43]
What kind of mod would you possibly benefit from, other than DCU, on a freighter?
___________________________
Trust In Rust!
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Ash Vincetti
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:17:00 -
[44]
So, is this an actual problem yet? or just people freaking out because of the perceived potential for trouble?
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Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:23:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Trox Aeze
Even after ship destruction, the drones will keep on attacking.
Nope they won't.
/Ki
Remember, kids:
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:24:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ash Vincetti
So, is this an actual problem yet? or just people freaking out because of the perceived potential for trouble?
AFAIK the only freighters that have been suicide ganked thus far where done before the loot patch. These people are just freaking out because their afk isk-machine might have run into a small snag.
/Ki
Remember, kids:
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ki An
AFAIK the only freighters that have been suicide ganked thus far where done before the loot patch. These people are just freaking out because their afk isk-machine might have run into a small snag.
/Ki
You're wrong, there have been ganks after the patch just for the tasty loot inside.
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If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:26:00 -
[48]
I'm quite curious myself just how much of a 'problem' this is, it's not as if organising the 'suicide squad' for the kill and 'loot squad' to recover the goods is a simple task that everyone and their dog can setup.
Someone mentioned drones continue attacking, I've only ever seen drones continue attacking for several seconds at most before going inert...
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Ash Vincetti
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ling Xiao
Originally by: Ki An
AFAIK the only freighters that have been suicide ganked thus far where done before the loot patch. These people are just freaking out because their afk isk-machine might have run into a small snag.
/Ki
You're wrong, there have been ganks after the patch just for the tasty loot inside.
There have always been ganks, before or after the patch. The tasty loot is just a tasty extra.
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dabster
Minmatar
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:33:00 -
[50]
Drones hasnt kept on attacking after you die for a long long time, they only keep going when you get jammed. Concord permajams you pretty quickly after aggression thats why you use drones for this.
___________________________
Trust In Rust!
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Jayson Lee
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:40:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Ash Vincetti
So, is this an actual problem yet? or just people freaking out because of the perceived potential for trouble?
AFAIK the only freighters that have been suicide ganked thus far where done before the loot patch. These people are just freaking out because their afk isk-machine might have run into a small snag.
/Ki
Now with the loot dropping, doesnt it stand to reason that attacks will only increase? I mean if people did it even when they recieved nothing in return, imagine how often it will start happening now that you can recieve compensation as well.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:44:00 -
[52]
how about flying three freighters in a group ? no one is going to get a force big enough to take all 3 of them down !
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Mrmuttley
Guns 'N' Hoses
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:45:00 -
[53]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Time for a new Sig.
Any Ideas? |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ki An
AFAIK the only freighters that have been suicide ganked thus far where done before the loot patch. These people are just freaking out because their afk isk-machine might have run into a small snag.
There have indeed been suicide ganks since the patch. And at least one I know of that failed to pop the freighter.
As for freaking out about AFK ISK machines can you point to one post here that makes that case or even implies it?
I think most if not all here are fine with suicide ganks but merely want the risk v. reward ratio to make some better sense than it does now.
That or find a way to allow for proper escorts to do their job. Webbing frigs are dicey at best. ECM bursting/smartbombing battleships will probably save the freighter but likely at the cost of the battleship and a sec hit (possibly a steep one) to the defender. Does that seem in any way right to you? That's about the extent of the options and none of them good. Forget AFK pilots...what about the people who WANT to do it right and properly escort their freighters? Why shouldn't they have a fair shot at doing that?
A billion ISK ship with NO module slots! Silly to say it is unbalancing. Even an 8 slot nano freighter would still be horribly slow but if you want to forbid that mod to freighters fine. Why not give them SOME fitting ability to try and defend themselves.
Oh yeah, no remote hull repairers either. IIRC a freighter down to 10% hull will cost 300 mil to repair. That make sense or seem right?
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:50:00 -
[55]
Originally by: SiJira
how about flying three freighters in a group ? no one is going to get a force big enough to take all 3 of them down !
Not sure how you think that would help. Gankers just pick one freighter and pop it. Other two go free. Gankers will of course know what they are carrying and pop the juiciest target.
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
What harm could 0/3/3 hi/med/low do?
Simple: capital ships in empire. Freighter + cargo expanders = enough cargo space to fit repackaged capital ships. Give freighters slots and you might as well just allow cynos in empire and skip the whole middle step.
Unless of course you'd be willing to accept a significant cargo space nerf to get your slots?
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Lrrp
Minmatar
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:56:00 -
[57]
Ska-ruuu the mids and low slots. Give a freighter 8 hi slots and turn it into a Q ship 
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
What harm could 0/3/3 hi/med/low do?
Simple: capital ships in empire. Freighter + cargo expanders = enough cargo space to fit repackaged capital ships. Give freighters slots and you might as well just allow cynos in empire and skip the whole middle step.
Unless of course you'd be willing to accept a significant cargo space nerf to get your slots?
How are packaged cap ships in Empire messed up? Not like you can fly them there. So what if they get transported through?
Even if that is somehow a bad idea (don't see why but for the sake of argument will go with it) merely up the size of a packaged cap ship or just prohibit them being loaded into freighters.
Or prohibit expanders on freighters. While using an expander on a freighter seems kinda cool they are big enough so no loss there. People want mod slots to be able to (possibly) defend themselves and their billion ISK ship to at least some extent.
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Yee Do
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:09:00 -
[59]
Just make freighters scan proof. Then you will really be rolling the dice to attack or not.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
Interstellar Corporate Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:31:00 -
[60]
1) Freighters were designed with large cargo-hold in mind.
The Statement: "Do not haul billions of ISK" then, is a fallacy. Since it ignores the logic and the intent behind the Freighter in the first place.
2) Freighters used to NOT drop loot. Now that they have been fixed, they are open game to anyone with means to kill them for the loot.
True, and is 100% correct, no arguments there.
3) "Suicide" ganking was always an accepted means of making ISK, and is a legitimate tactic.
True, and it is 100% correct, no arguments there.
4) Freighters were always killable.
True, and it is 100% correct, no arguments there.
5) Industrials and Transports - are only worth killing if they carry enough precious loot, like: BPO, Mega, Zydrine, Faction or Officer Mods. If they carry just regular equipment and basic minerals or components, they are really not worth that much; or rather - they are rarely worth an organized gank.
True, and it is 100% correct, no arguments there.
6) A properly stocked freighter, lets say 800k M3, even with the second least expensive mineral, Pyerite, is ALWAYS worth killing. Since the gankers stand a chance of taking at least part of the 850 Million ISK cargo, and I am pricing it conservatively, as a reward for their trouble. It is always worth an organized gank.
Again, true, and 100% correct, no arguments there.
Taking all of the above points into consideration, we must ask ourselves, is it worth it? To run a freighter Half full, to run a freighter with anything above 400 Mill in the cargo-hold? To run a freighter in anything other than 0.0, with good escort?
Follows a logical deduction, that freighters are the victims of their own success.
Their large capacity, and now - the newfound vulnerability - prevents them from transporting 100% full cargos. The initial design for extra large capacity just went .... flop.
The fact that freighters did not drop loot was a BUG, and an oversight. But it worked, the attacker of a freighter, when at war, in Low Sec, in 0.0 was inflicting a severe blow to their enemy, to their infrastructure. They did not get to keep the loot, but at least they knew it was extremely painful to their enemy.
So, it follows, that the BUG FIX when it comes to freighters, effectively turned into the NERF.
To fix this I propose the following:
1) Insurance Canceled - when one is destroyed by CONCORD.
2) Freighters' cargo-hold is reduced by (BALANCED amount).
3) Freighters' agility increased/and their mass decreased by (BALANCED amount)
4) Freighters' are given Low/Med Slots.
Main reason why freighters are so vulnerable now is their ability to carry massive amounts of even least precious "stuff" that in its entirety makes it worth killing. Coupled with the fact that they are "glass" boats, slow, and are unable to defend themselves - represents yet ANOTHER broken game mechanic.
I was always against freighters in the first place. Rather I was arguing for a "Small" freighter, with an ability to defend itself, moderately, for a short period of time, against an attack. Now, a couple of years later, I would say - "I told you so" CCP.
Guys an Gals, Gankers and Freighter Pilots, lets scream at the top of our lungs, fling dirt, flame and insults at each other, and make matters worse now!
Good Luck.
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