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invaderzim
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 02:02:00 -
[331]
I didnt read every page so it may have been suggested, but it seems like the answer is... Logistics cruisers.
This would require the freighter to be in a player corp. You can smartbomb a freighter, but the logistics cruisers have quite a range. Pack a couple and bs's with smarties or dones will have to work a lot harder for that kill and maybe you can hold out for concord.
Since a freighter (like a pod) has little in the way of defensive capabilites, I would also recommend that the security hit you take when taking out a freighter be much harsher than a normal ship.
Make that suicide bomber npc for weeks to be allowed back in high sec. You can't recycle bs flying characters as easily and this would limit the abuse a bit.
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"Oh, he's very popular Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, ****s, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, ****heads - they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude." |
Ryoma Sakamoto
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Posted - 2007.05.03 02:31:00 -
[332]
Many people in this thread mention "Escorts" for Freighters, but does that mean all solo Freighter pilots (meaning those with no player corp affiliations whatsoever) must hire escorts every time they move around IN EMPIRE SPACE?
Sure, I'd be happy to pay for escorts in LowSec or 0.0, but forcing people to do that in empire space sounds like racketeering to me. Wandering around Empire space and engaging in bulk commodity trading using a Freighter sounds like a plausable playstyle for a solo player to me, but that option evaporates if all Freighters are empire gankable for a profit. Freighter kills in empire space should be an instant -10.0 offense, considering that it is equivalent to pirating a cruise liner or a supertanker in US territorial waters. I'm sure USCG or USN would have MUCH to say about that.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.03 03:25:00 -
[333]
many freighters were ganked and more industrials were flown but still price isolation became the plague of EvE
in other news
i hear shuttles dont have a very good tank
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Thoric Frosthammer
Fallen Angels Inc
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 05:29:00 -
[334]
If people have to muster up an escort every time they want to fly anything remotely profitable through empire, or take the risk of losing billions, they simply wont fly freighters. Things won't get made, prices will go way up, and all the nice available goods you like, won't be available. Hauling is a tedious low reward job most of the time. Escorting haulers is even more so. This will just be the straw that broke the camel's back.
If you think that people will just be able to whistle up a good escort any time they want, you haven't done a lot of freighter escorts. I have. It sucks. Anyone who suggests this as an answer is a flat retard who wants to introduce endless tedium to this game for the sake of an occasional profit for themselves. You know it's not possible on the scale of the EVE economy, you just don't want to admit it because it flattens your feeble arguments. THE EVE ECONOMY IS DEPENDANT ON THE REASONABLY SAFE MOVEMENT OF FREIGHTERS IN EMPIRE SPACE, OR AT LEAST BEING ABLE TO PREDICT DANGER BY LOOKING AT YOUR WAR DECS. Anyone who claims otherwise is stupid or lying, or has never ever done a lick of industry.
Please, flame away and call me a carebear who doesn't know his rear from a hole in the ground some more, it just proves you don't have any actual arguments to support your position that this loophole should be allowed to stand.
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 06:55:00 -
[335]
I'm most looking forward to talk to those seeing the sky falling, markets crash, prices rising, items getting rare, in a few months from now.
It's always those apolyptical scenarios, but in the end, a few freighters with extremely valuable mods get ganked, and thats it, nothing more happens, no consequences, nothing.
And what if I'm wrong? What if prices will go up for a lot of items?
Well guess what, trading with a freighter will become more profitable, and those who still dare to do it, or those who muster a scout/escort will make more money than they do now.
This again will attract everyone else, and so we re where we are today.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.03 07:03:00 -
[336]
 Originally by: Chewan Mesa
I'm most looking forward to talk to those seeing the sky falling, markets crash, prices rising, items getting rare, in a few months from now.
oh boy you love setting up strawman arguments - its alright its real common on these forums
Quote:
It's always those apolyptical scenarios, but in the end, a few freighters with extremely valuable mods get ganked, and thats it, nothing more happens, no consequences, nothing.
check this out - some prices rising isnt an apocalyptic scenario its reality Quote:
And what if I'm wrong? What if prices will go up for a lot of items?
nothing big will happen but it will definitely be significant Quote:
Well guess what, trading with a freighter will become more profitable, and those who still dare to do it, or those who muster a scout/escort will make more money than they do now.
This again will attract everyone else, and so we re where we are today.
wrong because everything doesnt magically balance and counter balance within minutes so whether we get back to where we are today is not the question but how long it takes and what happens in the meantime
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_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 07:09:00 -
[337]
Originally by: SiJira
check this out - some prices rising isnt an apocalyptic scenario its reality
And ofc you are sure it has to do with freighter loot etc?
Quote:
wrong because everything doesnt magically balance and counter balance within minutes so whether we get back to where we are today is not the question but how long it takes and what happens in the meantime
I didnt say it happens within a week did I?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.03 07:27:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Originally by: SiJira
check this out - some prices rising isnt an apocalyptic scenario its reality
And ofc you are sure it has to do with freighter loot etc?
you must not know what role freighters play ...
Quote:
Quote:
wrong because everything doesnt magically balance and counter balance within minutes so whether we get back to where we are today is not the question but how long it takes and what happens in the meantime
I didnt say it happens within a week did I?
you made it seem like the fact that itll eventually balance means that it wont really affect anything because of the negative feedback
and we cant just downplay something because of the eventual return to equilibrium
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Gladia Horusthu
Gallente
Anything Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 07:49:00 -
[339]
Edited by: Gladia Horusthu on 03/05/2007 07:47:29
Damn, I've been avoiding this thread the whole time... took me like 2 hours to read it all so I don't sound like an idiot when respond-- damn, I just admited spending two hours of my life on this thread, I'm already an idiot :P
In for a penny, in for a pound.
I have built all but one of the ships that I've flown. Currently I'm building a capital ship. Out of reprocessed loot from missions.
If all the freighters disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't make a bit of difference in my little corner of the world.
Personally, I think we should all go back to simpler times, when you resupplied in 0.0 from T1 haulers in safespots, after running them 30 jumps through gatecamps in one of the dozen systems that connects to deep space in Eve. Remind people of how logistics USED to be. Pvp too.
But this thread almost tempts me to hop into a Domi and join a freighter ganking team. If only because seeing people complain about "safe space" (there is no such thing, by design) gets under my skin.
Freighters are what they were designed to be. Giant, vulnerable cargo holds. Weaknesses in the logistical infrastructure of industry. And primarily, haulers of Capital Ship Assembly Arrays and Outpost Construction Platforms.
They are NOT capital ships themselves. They require Advanced Spaceship Command, not the Capital Ships skill. They can use jumpgates. They cannot be compared to capital ships because they are not.
They are performing their role as vulnerable weak links in the production pipeline admirably. If this caused all freighter pilots to dock permanently tomorrow, things would re-adjust and I wouldn't weep tears over it. They are fancy toys as far as I'm concerned, unless one is building outposts and supercaps.
They are balanced as intended, from what I can see.
And I'm still waiting for all the posts from pilots who have been ganked randomly in freighters in highsec space.
Edit: and I'm sure many will agree that despite reading the thread I still sound like an idiot. But at least I'm an informed idiot 
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.03 07:50:00 -
[340]
Edited by: Aramendel on 03/05/2007 07:49:13
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
While the SBs would probably work there is a very good chance the guarding battleship will hit innocent bystanders (such as the bumpers trying to keep the freighter from warping) and will get CONCORDED himself. Add that the SBs may well pod those people so the guard will take a nasty sec hit.
Yes. But it will still stop the attack dead cold. It has disadvantages, but that doesn't make it any less of a viable counter. Loosing 1 BS << loosing 20-30.
The sec hit if you pod bystanders is the biggest problem. But having people within 5k of a freighter right after jumpin is not *that* a common occurance. That will only be a realistic danger in very busy systems, and freighter ganksquads will avoid those for 2 reasons:
- most of them are "high" highsec. Best system for freighter ganks are 0.5-0.6, since concord takes longer to react there.
- more people around = higher chance you loose stuff to neutral scavangers (or salvagers )
The problem with ECM burst is that, as has been noted, you can now only have one active at a time. And they changed recently the sensor strength of drones. Probably mainly to make them harder to probe, but this also means that an ECM burst now has less than a 50% chance to break a heavy drones lock.
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Lubomir Penev
Gallente
Dark Nexxus
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:00:00 -
[341]
Originally by: aiaakii
Remove the bumping... its staggeringly stupid game behavior to begin with...
some basic calculations of mass should show that even a BS would do little more than 'splat' on the side of a freighter..
If CCP removed the ability to bump, pilots used web-frig escorts, Freighters wouldn't have this problem.
tbh webbing a freighter making them align faster is a stupid game mechanic too.
And my idea for e good freighter escort is a mix of blackbirds with sensor booster and 5 gallente jammers and osprey/exequror with oversized repair module; they only need to get two repair cycles off before CONCORD starts handling the problem.
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Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.03 10:00:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Lord Dynastron
Him and every other Freighter pilot out there.
All your arguments were made by one person or another regarding Privateers as well (and m0o and Nanos and...). You do know how that turned out right? Based on how that turned out, why do you think this is any different? Anything that hurts Eve overall is bad for Eve and will be changed. Precident is something you would be wise to acknowledge.
Sooo... the real question is... is popping freighters in the manner being discussed bad for Eve? First you have to define what is bad for Eve. Hint: loosing subscription in droves is bad for Eve.
There is ONE major difference between this situation and the mOo/Priv one. mOo/Priv used game mechanics that had existed for a long time, and those mechanics where changed, forcing a change in mOo/Priv playstyle. Here we have a change that has already taken place, and freighter pilots are unwilling to adapt to that change.
What I mean is, noone has found a loophole in gamemechanics, or whatever else was said about mOo/Priv. CCP has made a change in game mechanics, fully aware of what they are doing. Every freighter pilot must now adapt, just as every Privateer, and every member of mOo had to adapt.
/Ki
Remember, kids:
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
SkeletonDenial
Caldari
Alcoholics R' Us
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 13:18:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Nicholai Pestot
... This is eve.This is grief. Like it or quit Mr. I bought this account off ebay Jenny...
Its Grief if you do it for fun, If you do it for profit, then its called pirating.
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hilaw
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Posted - 2007.05.06 13:13:00 -
[344]
We did mange to produce battle ships before they introduced freighters, it would just mean doing things the hard way again, which means more expensive ships / mods. As for anyone making comments about how are they are meant to get enough trit or pyrite for a super capital in one place they shouldn't be flying such a ship if they don't have enough industry support to figure that out 
Admittedly the gank cost for a filled freighter is a little low, but anyone flying an industrial ship about full of high end minerals runs the same risk. Given their far greater volume making them cost more to suicide makes sense, but they should not be invulnerable, or impossible to kill for profit, if filled with expensive goodies 
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Le Skunk
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.06 15:42:00 -
[345]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/05/2007 15:38:28
First they came for the privateers.....
I Dont post - as CCP nerfed my entertinament - So im nerfing everyone else entertainment - witholding my witty posts, and hilarious banners and sig graphics. But if i did - i would have said the above |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Requiem of Hades
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Posted - 2007.05.06 16:40:00 -
[346]
A sad day for us. Nobody understands the hauling community. 
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Dolika
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.05.06 16:51:00 -
[347]
Originally by: SiegeThey have 120,000 structure, and Concord, to protect them.
I mean, seriously, have any of you folks crying doom and gloom ever tried to actually take down a freighter? Even with no concord interference they take an obscene amount of time and effort to destroy. Only other capital ships can routinely expect to survive combat as well as a freighter, and those are all banned from empire space except for a couple specific exemptions that have heavy restrictions.
You need to arrange about two DOZEN players, or more, all with good drone skills, with pretty strong tanks to accomplish this. All of these players WILL loose their ships and take a decent security hit to do it, preventing them from doing it more than once every few days at the utter maximum if they dedicate every minute they play Eve toward this single task. PLUS they need another freighter to loot everything, that they will most likely be unable to defend because all their major combat ships were just blown up.
This is NOT an issue right now, and most likely it wont ever BE an issue except for a few isolated incidents. If for some reason it does start happening constantly, then yeah make some changes. Personally I think some increases to structural resistances would be the best compromise. Maybe 15% across the board would be good, it will give a good increase to your survivability without creating a more serious exploit. And I also think that remote structural repair would be a good idea to put in the game now, since that will help the pilots of those big tubs without causing any problems that I can see as long as they are kept in line with currently structure repair mods.
[/quote
Booohooohooo. It takes them 38 seconds. 14 Dominixes going by the number of wrecks appearing on gate after the gankage.
How much is 38 seconds? Does a freighter align in 38 seconds? No it does not. Especially due to the fact the dominixes warp scramble and it takes about 10 seconds for CONCORD to appear on scene and start jamming youre already watching a slideshow and if lucky all target locks have been broken you now have about 10-15 seconds to align, gain speed and warp out and in those 10-15 seconds if lucky you will see 5 slides because 100+ CONCORD warped in and there now are 200+ entities on the scene creating immense lag.
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VonKaplanek III
Confederation of Red Moon
Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:14:00 -
[348]
Log in trap in high security space = nothing a freighter can do. No amount of scouts will help you. Either take away insurance payouts if concord kills you or make freighters have higher total hit points to let concord do their job.
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Andreas Kallesoee
Gekidoku
Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:34:00 -
[349]
They could start by making ship scanning an act of agression so that you would be alartede to the fact that you have been scanned and the scanner would be killed, and i am backing the motion to have insurance payout removed if you are killed by concord.
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Dolika
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:38:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Lord Dynastron
Him and every other Freighter pilot out there.
All your arguments were made by one person or another regarding Privateers as well (and m0o and Nanos and...). You do know how that turned out right? Based on how that turned out, why do you think this is any different? Anything that hurts Eve overall is bad for Eve and will be changed. Precident is something you would be wise to acknowledge.
Sooo... the real question is... is popping freighters in the manner being discussed bad for Eve? First you have to define what is bad for Eve. Hint: loosing subscription in droves is bad for Eve.
There is ONE major difference between this situation and the mOo/Priv one. mOo/Priv used game mechanics that had existed for a long time, and those mechanics where changed, forcing a change in mOo/Priv playstyle. Here we have a change that has already taken place, and freighter pilots are unwilling to adapt to that change.
What I mean is, noone has found a loophole in gamemechanics, or whatever else was said about mOo/Priv. CCP has made a change in game mechanics, fully aware of what they are doing. Every freighter pilot must now adapt, just as every Privateer, and every member of mOo had to adapt.
/Ki
Privateers have 700 out of 200.000 subscribers. That is about 0,35% of the EvE population. Moo probably had about the same numbers and higher percentage but the "naughty deeds" of a small group influenced the game experience of the whole community in a very negative way and CCP fixed the loophole.
The scarcity of T2 BPOs influenced the EvE community in a negative way and CCP seeded more. Problem solved.
Now they opened up another loophole. Ganking freighters for profit in what's supposed to be safe empire.
Ganking of freighters as an economical deterrent was an option since the beginning. 2 months ago one could take 15 dominixes just as easily as it is done today and blow up empire freighters belonging to a hostile corporation's pilots or their NPC alts. The loss to the hostiles would have been made either way. A loss bigger than the cost of the lost ships.
Here we see you; who are a 10 month old pvper who probably knows nothing about M0o other than they existed sometime looong ago and were really uber for a short period of time. LOL a covetor killed you trying to steal his ore. You also cannot know anything about operating a freighter and the game mechanics seem to be a bit too much to grasp. /Looks at the itty killmail by a covetor & giggles. Personally im probably one of the most carebearish people but i still managed to gather more pvp ship kills solo in my 3 carebearing years than you did in your pvp career and i wasn't part of a single fleet battle where i would rack up my kills either so when i talk about pvp i know what im talking about just as i know what im saying when talking about logistical nightmare that T2 production&sales is without having to constantly have 10 escorts and looking over my shoulder for a login trap ganksquad. I am sure empire freighter pilots all over Eve share my views opposite to a hadful of pvpers
Fact is the current state allows for very small risk vs immense reward and should be fixed asap no matter how much you try to advocate for your lowsec pirating style of play bringing that kind of play into highsec will influence a vast majority of the community in a very negative way. Victims via the loss of their assets and the rest via a massive decline in quality of the supply and a general increase in prices which will hurt new players also because the first BS will cost say 20% more than it does now and a T2 fittings will again cost more than the ship itself does.
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Erotic Irony
RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:01:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Gamesguy
In addition, this was a .6 system, so concord response was considerably slower than it would be in a .9 system like jita.
Has anyone empirically verified this? I've heard this rhetoric since castor. Documentation please...
It seems like, as far as the Karma vid was concerned, its impossible to tell given how shoddily CONCORD spawning was optimized. Eve has been around for four years and it seems silly the legal system hasn't advanced beyond kill rights or seen a real mechanism for repairing/logistics--that after several boosts the logistics ships are used for plexing and the t1 versions are completely untouched should tell you something is amiss. Perhaps its time for a revision of CONCORD practices and gameplay in general to be in line with need for speed PR blitz?
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Le Skunk
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:29:00 -
[352]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/05/2007 23:26:10
Originally by: Dolika
Fact is the current state allows for very small risk vs immense reward and should be fixed asap no matter how much you try to advocate for your lowsec pirating style of play bringing that kind of play into highsec will influence a vast majority of the community in a very negative way. Victims via the loss of their assets and the rest via a massive decline in quality of the supply and a general increase in prices which will hurt new players also because the first BS will cost say 20% more than it does now and a T2 fittings will again cost more than the ship itself does.
New characters are perfectly at liberty to produce/trade/haul.
The Big Freighter pilots who haul billions of units across the galaxy can aford to make 1 isk profit per unit and still come out a billion isk up.
The new players looking to make a living by trade are immedialty gimped by the greater buying/selling/hauling power.
If Battleships go up in price by 20% and prices are no longer uniform - It opens up a whole new world to newer producers - who are not instantly undercut. And the newer traders - there will be good isk profit it hauling stuf in your Iteron.
Fregither pilots must adapt. Alternativly i hear whining on the forums works sometimes.
I applaud those who stand up for the little man by ganking freighters. I applaud the ganking of freighters - the pilots of whom skulk in npc corps - as they use their vast wealth and hauling power to deny noobs trade/production options. Their symbiotic realtionship with the few large producers deserves everything it gets.
They are the real life equivalnet of the giant chains of superstores, and giant farms - who CRUSH the life out of the independant trader.
SKUNK
I Dont post - as CCP nerfed my entertinament - So im nerfing everyone else entertainment - witholding my witty posts, and hilarious banners and sig graphics. But if i did - i would have said the above |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:28:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Le Skunk
I applaud those who stand up for the little man by ganking freighters. I applaud the ganking of freighters - the pilots of whom skulk in npc corps - as they use their vast wealth and hauling power to deny noobs trade/production options. Their symbiotic realtionship with the few large producers deserves everything it gets.
They are the real life equivalnet of the giant chains of superstores, and giant farms - who CRUSH the life out of the independant trader.
SKUNK
bigger load of crap couldnt have been said
just because someone wants to freight goods instead of running missions doesnt mean they are "evil" and crushing anyones life
if they wanna bore themselves this way instead of missions who are you to say ill of them ?
fact is kiddies - CCP will change SOMETHING as long as this keeps increasing
and i say
GO FOR IT PEOPLE - kill all the freighters - you will only fuel the change
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Malcum Blakhurst
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Posted - 2007.05.07 12:32:00 -
[354]
I have no problem with freighters dropping loot.
The Problem is that Freighters could be killed before the change - and very few people did it - but they did it for the right reasons - to seriously hurt their opposition.
Now people are just doing it because they can with the promise of phat freighter style loot.
Before it was ok for freighters not to have any module slots and if you were at war you stayed docked or used a scout and only if you Absolutely had to move something large somewhere.
Now You can't move anything large anywhere at any time because there is always the quite likely chance that you'll come across a High sec gank squad that will find you tasty.
The problem here is that freighters have absolutely no way to protect themselves. In low sec and 0.0 you can take people with you to help- in High sec these same protection people will get concorded in self defense. As well as the Gankers getting the vast majority of their cost back in insurance.
This would be equivilant to you getting 30 people together and going and crashing all your cars into a Walmart - filled with explosives and Firebomb then entire building - knick off with 1/2 the loot in a 18wheeler and then having the police show up and shoot the store clerk who pulled a shotgun on you to try save the store - quickly followed by the insurance companies turning up and paying you out for the loss of your cars in the firebombing. I'm sorry but WTF ??????
There has been some suggestion about giving freighters low and med slots - well honestly I'm with the gankers on not giving them Low slots thats just silly - but Med slots hell yes. If you've ever looked at a freighter you'll notice they have approx the same shield HP's as BS's and TONS or armour and structure. But you can't give them low slots for obvious reasons - so this leaves meds. Simply Either swap freighter Armour and Shield HP's round so they can use Shield boosters and be effective - or give them med slots to equip Structure reppers. Not as good as shield boosters but at least running 2-3 of them will give freighter pilots a fraction more time.
This total rubbish about not using ships to move valuable items is just daft. They have to be moved somehow and I'd love to see how many of these gankers have had to be part of a Hauling convoy... ever ... its boring as all hell for the haulers and the guards.
By all means gank AFK'ers - but freighter Pilots who sit then and manually warp from gate to gate for hours and hours on end should at least be able to defend themselves if attacked in HIGH SEC.
/signed on the Freighters side - They need someway to defend themselves from HIGH SEC ganking (this excludes LOW sec and 0.0 space in which case guards are a practical option.
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Le Skunk
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.07 14:57:00 -
[355]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/05/2007 14:55:18
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Le Skunk
I applaud those who stand up for the little man by ganking freighters. I applaud the ganking of freighters - the pilots of whom skulk in npc corps - as they use their vast wealth and hauling power to deny noobs trade/production options. Their symbiotic realtionship with the few large producers deserves everything it gets.
They are the real life equivalnet of the giant chains of superstores, and giant farms - who CRUSH the life out of the independant trader.
SKUNK
bigger load of crap couldnt have been said
just because someone wants to freight goods instead of running missions doesnt mean they are "evil" and crushing anyones life
if they wanna bore themselves this way instead of missions who are you to say ill of them ?
fact is kiddies - CCP will change SOMETHING as long as this keeps increasing
and i say
GO FOR IT PEOPLE - kill all the freighters - you will only fuel the change
Im an industrial character - as everyone knows - And I tell you trade for the noob in an iteron is a difficult business.
Freighters haul items in such a large amount - they can price said items at just a few isk above what they bought them from - and make a killing.
The noob in the iteron - can haul a fraction of the amount a freighter does - so he has to have a larger markup on each item he hauls. Thus he cannot compete with the greedy, treble chinned, fat cheeked freighter pilot.
Someone said that prices across teh galaxy will become less uniform. I say good - this also provides many opportunitys for the little man trader as more opportunitys will pop up in the markets. Also the small producing corp - who churn our one or two BS a week - will see a better return on their investments - if some huge producer - who can afford to take less retrun per unit isnt in control
Your right though - i can see the whine crescendo building. CCP will change it im sure. So get your ganks in while you can.
Ganking freighter aids the little man.
Freighters should be used to transport corp/alliance goods (with an escort - this is what corps are supposed to be doing) NOT to crush the life out of markets.
SKUNK
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Nimrias
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:17:00 -
[356]
I have the fix. The freighter pilots don't want high-sec ganking. The PvPers want a potentially big payday. So...
Restrict freighters to low-sec/no-sec only, just like other "capital sized" ships!
No more high-sec ganks, and pirates have an opportunity of freighter pew pew pew. Everyone is happy. High sec managed to move crap around before freighters, it can and will manage after freighters.
Market diversity is good. What happens when one large trading / industry corp has thousands of these huge secure cargo containers with engines flying around "normalizing" prices across the universe? Then we'll be playing Wal-Mart Online.
I completely understand the people not wanting to interact with the interactive universe that they are paying to enjoy. I read their point of view all the time here on the forums.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:49:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Le Skunk
The noob in the iteron - can haul a fraction of the amount a freighter does - so he has to have a larger markup on each item he hauls. Thus he cannot compete with the greedy, treble chinned, fat cheeked freighter pilot.
Someone said that prices across teh galaxy will become less uniform. I say good - this also provides many opportunitys for the little man trader as more opportunitys will pop up in the markets. Also the small producing corp - who churn our one or two BS a week - will see a better return on their investments - if some huge producer - who can afford to take less retrun per unit isnt in control
freighers arent always huge producers - sometimes they dont even own that much - they might have saved it all up from the ITERON V trips and trained for and now bought a freighter
you keep painting them as some big evil texas oil owners that are fat and greedy
maybe if each freighter cost 10 billion and training up to it took half the time i would agree with you
but it takes quite a bit of time to train up to one and its what every hauler, trader, and manufacturer dreams of (the ones not poisoned by "freighters SUX L O L " comments
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_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
big mang
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Posted - 2007.05.09 21:34:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/05/2007 23:26:10
Originally by: Dolika
Fact is the current state allows for very small risk vs immense reward and should be fixed asap no matter how much you try to advocate for your lowsec pirating style of play bringing that kind of play into highsec will influence a vast majority of the community in a very negative way. Victims via the loss of their assets and the rest via a massive decline in quality of the supply and a general increase in prices which will hurt new players also because the first BS will cost say 20% more than it does now and a T2 fittings will again cost more than the ship itself does.
New characters are perfectly at liberty to produce/trade/haul.
The Big Freighter pilots who haul billions of units across the galaxy can aford to make 1 isk profit per unit and still come out a billion isk up.
The new players looking to make a living by trade are immedialty gimped by the greater buying/selling/hauling power.
If Battleships go up in price by 20% and prices are no longer uniform - It opens up a whole new world to newer producers - who are not instantly undercut. And the newer traders - there will be good isk profit it hauling stuf in your Iteron.
Fregither pilots must adapt. Alternativly i hear whining on the forums works sometimes.
I applaud those who stand up for the little man by ganking freighters. I applaud the ganking of freighters - the pilots of whom skulk in npc corps - as they use their vast wealth and hauling power to deny noobs trade/production options. Their symbiotic realtionship with the few large producers deserves everything it gets.
They are the real life equivalnet of the giant chains of superstores, and giant farms - who CRUSH the life out of the independant trader.
SKUNK
the lord ganking and exploit alliance in the game supports freighter ganking IM sooooo shocked, seriously privateers get out of jita and let CCP fix the lag there, if you are carrying things not in containers in a freighter your plain stupid
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.09 22:46:00 -
[359]
Originally by: big mang
the lord ganking and exploit alliance in the game supports freighter ganking IM sooooo shocked, seriously privateers get out of jita and let CCP fix the lag there, if you are carrying things not in containers in a freighter your plain stupid
or maybe you just dont know much about them because you dont read forums *shock*
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_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
CEO Phil
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Posted - 2007.05.10 02:23:00 -
[360]
You know, I've been playing eve since 2003. I've seen a lot of changes and had a lot of fun. I've mined, ran missions, manufactured and sold stuff and done a bit of PvP.
I'm really not surprised that CCP added this "feature." If CCP didn't want high-sec ganking, they would have fixed the problem long ago.
Personally I don't like the high-ganking. It smacks of picking on the weak or defenseless -- it's mean spirited. I don't live that way in RL and, even though this is a game, I don't play that way.
High-sec ganking changed the way I played the game. It made it less fun. Once I got the freighter, it got a little better. However, this recent change, combined with the high-sec ganking, just made me cancel my accounts. It just got to be not worth it.
Mining was fun, but then the roids seemed to be raped by what seemed to be macro miners so I had to find more and more obscure systems -- pain in the ass. Missions were fun, but they do get old after a while. PvP was pretty fun but not really my thing (flame away if you want). I really got into the manufacturing, but it requires a lot of minerals and moving a lot of stuff. I did much of the tedious heavy-moving afk.. Now that's more of a risk. It's a risk that I really don't care to make anymore. It's just too much of a pain in the ass.
After reading what I just wrote, I realize that I sound a little whiney, but ah well, it's a forum; flame me if you don't like it.
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